and welcome to the special meeting of the san francisco full board of supervisors for monday, august 8, 2016, at 2 o'clock madam clerk call the roll. >> supervisor avalos not present supervisor president london breed supervisor campos not present supervisor cowen supervisor cowen not present supervisor farrell's not present supervisor kim supervisor mar

supervisor peskin supervisor tang supervisor wiener supervisor yee not present madam president we have quorum. >> thank you ladies and gentlemen, can you please join us for the pledge of allegiance and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> thank you, madam clerk any communications. >> not o none to report madam president. >> supervisor peskin like to mansion a motion to skews commissioners we'll take that without objection. supervisor avalos is skewed supervisor wiener in terms of excusing the other

commissioners and i know that supervisor cowen, supervisor farrell and supervisor campos expressed a request to be excused. >> okay absolutely you wanted to make that motion. >> seconded by supervisor peskin colleagues without objection without objection their excused and we're joined by supervisor yee okay. i do have one in memoriam and i think that we may have some members of the public of the audience here today colleagues, we don't have a traditionally 2:30 roll call or accommodation spend for the board meeting i want to take a brief moment to acknowledge someone when from the city family that passed away a few days ago mr. richard shaft that passed away sunld on tuesday august texting section and

members of the public who are here for the in memoriam can you please stand. >> okay. it's everyone here thank you. >> thank you and i just are there members of the family here today thank you very much and we'll give you a moment to say and few words we appreciate you being here be seated i'll make a few remarks we had the privilege of knowing dick the general manager of moscone center and regional vice president of the moscone center operations since 19 ti he is survived by marilyn of 56 years and two children greg and laura and 5 greater than dick moved to san francisco in 19 ti after working an long beach as a

45 members of the managers he served on numerous committees as a member of the board of supervisors and collected as chairman of the i va r foundation if 88 to 89 and severed as president of the organization in 1994 through 95 and received the association highest honor the charles a award in 2002 in 2011 dick was the respiratory of the international conference lifetime achievement are award from the association of venue managers inc. and excellent member of the travel association a member of the san francisco chamber of commerce, a board member of the 5 and mission and a trustee of the i organization t s e 16 pension plan he always listened as one listed

as one of the most influential people in the industrial industry when we wasn't working dick would ride his motorcycle and cheer on the giants and loved that spending a lot of time with friends and families and especially his greater than grandchildren done so much and honored to have such a tremendous leader and one of the most important industry the tourism of san francisco someone what has made san francisco what it is to visitors all over the country and want to tim he'll be truly missed and with that, colleagues without objection i want to before i open up for any member of the family to comment

supervisor peskin did you. >> will madam president want to suggest we make that if the entire board of supervisors i knew dick an honor to work with him and my condolences to the family and the entire city for a great loss. >> thank you and boxes we'll do this on behalf of the entire board of supervisors today and without objection if this is a member of his family or someone that he worked with i'll welcome you an opportunity to say a few words at this time. >> the microphone is here. >> thank you for letting us be here and supporting him i just wanted to say thank you to everyone that showed up he loved his work and i think because of you he loved all the people he worked with and

enjoyed the work until 77 thank you to everyone, everyone knows who he was i don't want to say too much we loved him. >> thank you very much and again, our honor to adjourn 24 meeting on behalf of the entire board of supervisors thank you to his family and friends his coworkers and many people probation officer caught to support him today he will definitely be missed we truly appreciated his work for the city thank you. >> and with that, madam clerk any other communications none to report. >> can we please call the first item. >> item number one is the resolution to approve the that party supplement to the memorandum of understanding regarding the financial commitment to addressing the funding gap for the peninsula

electrification and add the public comment requirement for this item has been satisfied at the july 27th budget & finance committee. >> with that, supervisor peskin. >> thank you madam president and colleagues for giving us a week continuance which really allowed for a productive collaboration on the city does between myself, commissioner chung if the board, ed reiskin and some of his staff tilly chang and maria from the ct a as well as jillian on behalf of the mayor's office and to that end we have a set of protocols in front of you and incorporated in the file which by the way, have been reviewed by caltrain staff

and we accommodated a couple of amendments a they sugsd and finally, the resolution itself is slightly amended on pages 4, and 5 at the first line on page 4 that indicates that the agreement will be subject to a funding protocol and then the additional further resolves authorizing the chief executive and the director of transportation to sign the president and make any amendments on behalf of the city and county it don't increase our obligations for liability i look forward to san francisco playing a role as the caltrain electrification project evolves making sure we do that within our means and thank you to

supervisor tang for helping on the collaborative effort. >> thank you supervisor peskin commissioner chung. >> i do appreciate live supervisor peskin i know that was difficult for us to call a special meeting but to make sure that san francisco was going to be able to handle what comes our way in the future regarding the caltrain projects would this o one of the things i'd like to acknowledge our controller's office they did i know that supervisor peskin wanted to acknowledge them as well to have a comprehensive perpetually protocol i want to kick it offer to todd to speak to some of the amendments in the oversight protocol and those changes will be adapted as part of resolution today. >> thank you, todd deputy controller through the wanting to summarize the protocol before

you included 10 or 12 donated items 15 separate items the four key additions calling your attention is in item 6 is the requirement of a dashboard to be created with dashboard indicators as previously noted in the schedule and budget further in addition to that item number 9 specifically defines significant risk levels with the requirement this the city of san francisco and other partners be notified within 10 days of devacations where costs are increased over 200 and $50,000 and thirdly, the addition of appropriation controls, i.e., in number 11 that funding and financing issues are suggested

to each authority to appropriate the funding and finally on item 15 is the inclusion of the funding partners including san francisco to be able to audit a review any of the project information at any time those are the key changes and thank you. >> thank you, mr. reed i believe that putting the allegations into the oversight pointing will sure hopefully in the future that if any issues arise we'll be privy to that information supervisor peskin if you have something else. >> supervisor peskin. >> thank you. i wanted to apologize for not acknowledging the controller's office and add the role of a number of deputy advertising played and acknowledge bryan from congresswoman jackie spier's office i think that he has endeavored to bring this thing

together and congresswoman spear and president obama administration god speed. >> for clarity who will be permitting the request to amend the legislation. >> the amendments madam president before you i have circulated them and also want to announce we shared all of these changes with supervisor cowen's staff that be aware of them and supportive of them but like to make a motion to put the amendments that are before you before us and make that motion. >> supervisor peskin has made a motion to amend seconded by supervisor tang colleagues without objection without objection the amendments passes

unanimously and call roll. >> supervisor peskin supervisor tang supervisor wiener supervisor yee supervisor breed supervisor kim supervisor mar there are 7 i's. >> the resolution as amended it adapted unanimously next item. >> general public comment 80 up to two minutes to include items on the without reference calendar items three and four purntd to the board direct your comments to the board if you want to display your document clearly state to sfgovtv and when you want the screen to return to the live coverage of meeting. >> good morning, mr. yip.

>> of holiness and man with true destiny in unit of human nature of people into unite with well-nourished - for mission of holy justice with the foam o phenomena will sure the peace and wellness when mankind without individual differences of opinionated bias and mercy of justice to change the destiny for all people to prosperity and security true principles should exist on planet earth and always among everyone's heart for the holy people and shall take an divided statute of limitations

of holy religion and have the coloration of all good deeds and holy shoed u study is there a preach university shall in the new wealth of our people and one shall maximize the nature in destiny with a special works on publication and mercy and humankind destiny shall work together for the public affairs for the study of holy culture shall be between heaven and man for peace and wellness for justice for all so holy meaning of eternal for hundreds of jashgsz for security god bless the holy mission. >> thank you.

>> next speaker, please. >> thank you supervisor president london breed my name is christopher i rise to practice my ad skills and remark on a number of different things there was some comment several weeks ago what you want to do for old people today is my 69 birthday and amazed to have it personally being the oldest person in the room i guess my observations will hold the permitted thing i want flat sidewalks have to watch any steps my feet don't work quite as well another item my comment about the

boilerplates restrictions what you can produce grant fund for the actually did a search and on the items on 7 61 is all wrong the bulb out of the money from the state of california the sfmta to you wanted the city to take would liability for building something that is text that requires that inconsistent apply and the state of california as you as the enforcement ininstrument and lastly please do not read in front of use it is really, really rude we've sat with you for 9 hours your task is hard but back there thank you. >> thank you and happy

birthday. >> next speaker, please. >> hi laura clark of grow sf to talk about item 4 the redondo proposal to once again talk about where they'll oppose by right. i think has been litigated and discuses the city to ready to say we're conflict of interest about whether we'll support buy right this is the message to be pass on i don't understand this is on the agenda it is a deliberate waste of time we could be doing so many more effective things to truly address did housing crisis and old policies permitted like radical things like backyard cottages adding to the housing authority that is spell needed in the city and addressing

single-family home only to attached zoning inclusionary zoning hiv racist institutions and making progress but instead we are deciding whether we'll pass a motion to oppose something again for no reason i'm really disappointed you guys are not taking more bold action happy with the granting cottage legislation so, so much more potential and hope you'll take bold action soon. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> hi, my name is sonya if the renters federation and here to talk about 4 ask you to vote against this motion yes similar point we already went through this is a waste of time and san francisco as built housing but we haven't

contributed housing to the bay area and as we've sort of gone over the governors buy right bill was monthly applied in the areas that all san franciscans definitely need to build for housing on the peninsula the best way for the suburbs housing and silicon valley to pass buy right no san franciscans strongly want the peninsula to build housing san franciscans want this and, yes we vote against this motion that's correct. >> next speaker, please. >> good afternoon, supervisors tim colen, san francisco housing action coalition. and wanted to express our frustration with that motion back again because it is to us proevendz empty housing in the seasons perhaps we can finally stop producing market-rate and get our arms around this

displacement it doesn't make sense but number one governor said two things number one local jurisdictions you don't get it for two or three dedications e decades using ours authority to delay and abduct housing no where more true if housing coalition didn't exist i won't have a job local jurisdictions have to stop obstructing jobs and the second one is equally remarkable under no realistic economic scenario possible for the state of california to subsidies its way out of problem think if i remember what we said i read in the newspaper the affordable housing is delivers to the and costs two of no evidence he will change and open

the floodgates to fund the production of subsidize housing we're left to our devices it didn't doesn't make sense to oppose this because right measure and at the same time keep the production of housing in san francisco we need a lot more of it and urge you to vote against the motion thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> supervisors michael san francisco building trades council on many occasions agree with the prior 3 speakers i disagree this is not a anti housing measure it is a complex question the municipal production of physical buildings and involves serving the needs of the community in variety of ways with the labor like i'm not adverse to pointing out but serving the needs of low income communities and making sure that

there is no displacement, and making sure there is no unwarranted an urban answered during the course of uncontrolled housing and the current measure that the governor is pushing didn't do missing any of those things it needs to be called into account we need to remind. >> legislators to call the governor into account and appreciate the positive stance towards little legislation i'm convinced that works with the state building trade we're asking you to oppose the legislation and fill it is amend to the point it does what the is spotted to do thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> hello my name is milo with grow sf

i would like you to deny this amend item not the way things are settled the governors bill is a good idea one of the stipulations in the requests is to preserve ask the governor to preserve the demonstration controls by the governor already has those preserved this is an example of how we're kind of redundantly doing things again so support the governors bill thank you. >> thank you >> next speaker, please. >> i was asking one of the

officers if it is possible if you guys could provide bottle waters we get thirsts i didn't and promised i would do a commercial by a book we robert stone believe it or not i haven't read the book can't comment it came in the mail i went to the computer and found out a special meeting so not able to prepare a speech but you know what? at the name of jesus every knee will bow and every tongue confess only a matter of time jehovah has spoken every knee will bow and paul applies that to tfa lips two jesus is a

great misery you'll confess and joours will stay get down on our impose and acknowledge to everyone jesus is lord a par bell in the gospel of luke those who will not let me lord over them the motor vehicle and lowly lamb of god and judgment day is coming jesus mind behold i go up to the jerusalem and everything written by the son of man will be accomplished he didn't say behold i go up to jerusalem but everything that is written by the proof the will come true mows isaiah and the

book of jehovah. >> - >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> tom gilbert building houses by the 98 percent of san franciscans can't afford a dynamic housing project we need to reline and instead of louis the developers to make all the money part of our society we are lucky to have michael a couple of months ago i did a show on happy new year cynicism and any things on donald trump just listen to that show and hillary clinton on the other hand, ask her what happened in 2009 with honduras

when america was the only country that relocated central america no one else did and honduras mother with children at our gates i want her to release her transcripts to wall street and there's a few things we're running out of time i'm wearing a nice green shirt what do you think gloria stein within that that i mentioned before about the police not wearing their gun belts this is a time i hope some of you get to travel in a country the police are not wearing them we can do better the police in the society everyone will be happier i'm recommending for the first time that we find some safe buildings

so drug addicts can shoot up under san francisco supervised supervision this is got to be better as long as they do their drugs on site andvent the lottery loiter /* litter. >> any further speakers line up to the left. >> i request our open patience to replace the matter within the proper economic context the condominium sidelines has sidelined the property owners with the incoming restricted housing supply were a boom towards the corporate dwellings of luxury in scale affordability set aside raise the costs of the aau adjourned

unite beyond the 34ri79d people who finds themselves innovating not able to make the ended meet we're short 68 thousand hounding and fiscal inflation have respected people in the 3, 4, 5 - in overtime and comfortable elevation of degree and keeping on task with the economic freeze and the economy and the freeze - >> political intervention has added preemptor to the cost of land for the prosthetic contractor and the public in general all those 2w0sz who lack the prevent status to buy excuse me - that buy high over and over not al at all

future boards any yield inheriting symmuch constitutional heritage to adopt the buy right legislation in the spirit of free initiative courageously or encouraging with the shared values regarding scott wiener economic factors. >> thank you, sir madam president seeing no 09 speakers lining up that includes public comment. >> okay. are there any other members of the public to provide public comment at this point seeing none, public comment is closed. >> sir, i know you're kidding what with that madam clerk the items with adoption no - item 3. >> a motion to approve a final

map 8253 located on webster street colleagues colleagues, can we take that same house, same call? without objection the motion is approved unanimously please call item number 4. >> a motion to urge the san francisco deliberate legislation for the buy right for the trail bill in recognition of 1230z locals planning tools to regional housing development and order the clerk to transmit the position for the buy right housing proposal for the tailor bail to all one and 80 members of the state legislation. >> supervisor president london breed. >> good afternoon colleagues my - i'd like to propose a

motion i just want to i'd like to propose an amendment and take the opportunity to explain why my concern is not necessarily the substance of the motion but it is a motion there in my view no legal basis for the boardf supervisors to impact a position under the section 2.1 of the charter that the board of supervisors shall act only by ordinance resolution except it may act on motion by when the board of supervisors has inclusive jurisdictions by acts of ordinances not inclusive hours positions in sacramento or over the position that we take inclusive position is the paramount will i matters w50e8

sit as a committee as a whole that's why the board narrowly defines action by the motion which i won't go over the details of that but again my concern not about the substance of the motion but as board president an objection to protect the rules under the chair functions i don't want to establish the precedent that the board can take did positions by motioned and motioned not subject to single spiritualy privilege to send an item to the committee and have motioned an important policy topics show up on the agenda and noting if a simple majority supports never subject to the public comment pedestrian and not from the executive branch we want to set the policy absent we don't want

to set the populated absent the public engagement process or not notwithstanding our city charter we don't have the legal authority and not suggest we do and for that reason colleagues i'm asking for a simple amendment at the top of the motion which g will make that clear and that amendment has been passed out to some of you already it says whereas the san francisco board of supervisors can't under the city charter or the boards recusal of order establish the substantive policies by motion, however, this motion simply riltsz reiterates a motion adopted by the board in resolution one six zero 66 zero and the city attorney sports this and

supervisor peskin supports this amendment with that, i'll move to approve that particular amendment into the record. >> supervisor president london breed has made a motion to amend seconded by supervisor peskin if no discussion on this amendment itself as opposed to the motion can we take with without objection without objection the amendment is adopted unanimously. >> thank you supervisor peskin. >> madam president and colleagues this item is resubmit of the extensive discusses in committee and at the full board time is of the essence as this matter is being deliberated in sacramento in the days ahead i want to acknowledge the state senator from san francisco senator mark leno for his work

and delegations from across the state that will be visiting with lunch breaks in sacramento tomorrow madam clerk i'm hopeful this that motion passes today you and your hard working are get that out to the legislature as quickly as possible and then for me i want to acknowledge the obvious this passed by a majority of this body it is rare but the mayor choose to veto that resolution i think what the gentleman said is actually quite right which is to - in some form a fight over tone the mayor's may 13 substance is not that different than the substance of this resolution are of this motion previously

resolution and what i think the gentleman said we should take heed of is that the supportive request of the mayors as well as mayor garcetti fell on deaf areas relative to making amendments that will alm that san francisco has been a leader in affordable housing development and would like this bill to be amended we can continue to use the tools in our tool in the toolbox we've paranoia i think that is time for this - we oppose this tailor bill by the way, those amendments now are widespread port in organizations all over the state of california and maybe some not from the sf grow

or bar so be it with that, madam president i'm prepared to vote on this again. >> thank you supervisor peskin supervisor wiener. >> thank you madam president so i have to say this whole process i find to be irregular and really problematic as an initial matter i listened to supervisor president london breed's comments and frankly think i supervisor president london breed's comments were on point why we shouldn't set the precedent as we're doing with the amendment that you can introduce a resolution at the board of supervisors you can have that resolution fail whether at the board level or if it is because the mayor vetoes it but through the normal

process and fail and then you can turn around and say i don't like this i'll introduce as a motion the difference the mayor can't veto a motion it is a effectively a procedural vote within the board of supervisors and the rebate we have motioned and the mayor didn't play a rule in signing or adverting the motion a motion is about those of us within the board of supervisors setting our own procedural rules and motioned can be about 19th century hearings and other procedural matters that's the purpose of motion and the reason the mayor plays 90 no rule in meddling so a motion our motion never been intended to set

substantive policies for the city that's never been what they're about and but that is exactly what this motion is purporting to do it sour grapes this motion we didn't get what we tloptd the normal process because the mayor vetoed it as a result a regular motion that the mayor can't touch and appreciate supervisor peskin transparency in what we intended to do use this to falsely imply to the legislator u legislature this is somehow the position of the city of san francisco and it's not we sit down policy in terms of the lobbying the legislator by way of resolution and the mayor signs it or lets it become the official policy without signing it or if the board didn't act

the mayor can lobby that creates significant confusion and if you were a member of the lunch break from some other part of state and all of a sudden someone says well the board passed this the mayor vetoed and the mayor is not allowed to veto it what is the position of the city it creates confusion that's why we have a distinction between resolutions and motioned putting that aside the board will act the way it does and we'll precede from this year i'll be voting against this not because of procedural mechanism but on the merits he's voted against supervisor peskin previous iteration this needs to be a resolution he offered an alternative resolution that basically said there are issues

with what the governor is proposing around demolitions and 09 areas and we should work collaboratively with the governor to fix the buy right legislation so it works and then we should not just simply oppose and so my position continues to be the same we should be working with the governor to improve his legislation to fix the defects rather than oppose it and i also need to repeat what i said san francisco is not doing well when it comes to housing as reflective in the average rent of $3,500 a month and the displacement as reflected in the number of people living with their x they've been broken up for two years can't afford to move out we have a crisis and

not pating ourselves on the back there's more work to do yes subsidized below-market-rate housing we want more below-market-rate housing but that will not solve the housing crisis we need more housing overall this is what the governors plan is designed to do not a purpose plan it needs amendments we should work with the governor collaboratively to get those amendments done this is not the right approach in my opinion so you'll be voting no. >> thank you, supervisor wiener. >> supervisor peskin. >> thank you madam president i don't want to budget committee labor this i want to as a matter of collegiality take exemption to the sour gripes graipz this is the policy god above grade of san francisco the mayor has the ability to express himself on

behalf of the executive branch i - the mayor has as per recognizing recognize not used in modern times to veto a policy of the policy body the policy body any in its soul and saluted corrosion to express itself as the policy body is legal by the admit not often done but really rather remarkable the exclusive executive vetoed this this is the way to timely express the majority opinion to the stated legislature and the 0 policy we've discussed at nasal and why not call the roll. >> supervisor peskin i mean supervisor wiener. >> we're like easilyly

confuseable i have madam president if i may through the city attorney if this motion passes today what will the position of city of san francisco be it the bill in sacramento. >> john gibner, deputy city attorney. as you mentioned supervisor wiener and as the president mentioned the city adapts formal positions on states legislation through resolution or through ordinance dlooul impacted by the board and signed or returned unsigned by the mayor or over ridden part of veto over ridden the board has not adopted a resolution that goes into effective on this bill the city has no formal position on this bill and the motion to

not have the position on the bill the mayor under the chapter has the authority to coordinate intergovernmental fisherman's wharf the mayor can contradict the body to take the motion. >> so what would be an appropriate use of this motion if it passes again in sacramento in terms of the advocacy around this bill. >> i can't speaks to what will be appropriated the mayor can view it as he wishes in terms of lobbying on behalf of the city in his discretion. >> if it passes today, we could have the mayor lobbying in favor of the bill with amendments and could have others saying look i have a motion from the board of supervisors opposing the bill and others meaning members of the public that take this monoxide o motioned with a public document

and say here's the position the majority of board of supervisors. >> or members of the board of supervisors supervisor peskin ask the the president to consider sending a letter quickly with the motion if it passes saying the board of supervisors passed this motion. >> that's what the - >> supervisor cohen's. >> that's correct that's the motion asked that the motion be transmitted to all 20 and 20 members of the legislation if we have the mayor of the san francisco lobbying on behalf of the city in favor of the bill with amendments and have the board of supervisors transmitting the motion opposing the bill to the legislators can have that complex. >> that's right beyond the clerk forwarding the motion adapt by the board individual supervisors in their capacity as the residents of the

state can lobby the legislators but the board including the clerks letter can't take a position on behalf of the city and county of san francisco. >> in terms of the direction in the motion up here it says further resolved this the board of supervisors directs the clerk to transmit this to all one and 80 members when you - the motion itself says opposed and so then the clerk will be directed to transmit that to all one and 20 members on behalf of the board of supervisors not as residents of the state how does that - that seems odd given the mayor that has the charter policy to have the resolution goes into effect any of the board of supervisors saying wait we oppose this.

>> yes. the mayor has the power to coordinate the intergovernmental affairs for the boards resolution taking a position on behalf of the city has directed the clerk to forward the copies of the resolutions to the legislators or to certain members of the legislators even though the mayor has the power to coordinate the intergovernmental affairs we can advise not the clerk is not prohibited from forwarding a document adapted by the board to the legislators by this is the extent of the boards direct involvement in the legislative affairs. >> to the best of your knowledge are you aware of a situation a motion with the board of directors not subject to any review by the mayor under our 0 - would that be

transmitted to the state legislators that's into the challenges that 1k3450e7d identified in terms of setting a precedent short circuit the process and having the mayor sign or veto and do a motion and appearing to be taking a position even though we're not allowed to take a position. >> not that i'm aware of of that happening. >> thank you very much. >> thank you with that, madam clerk seeing no other names on the roster, on the item as amended can you please call the roll. >> supervisor peskin supervisor tang no supervisor wiener no. >> supervisor yee supervisor breed supervisor kim supervisor mar there are 5 i's and two notices with supervisor tang and supervisor wiener isn't descent

the motion as amended is approved madam president. >> point of order. >> madam clerk i mean clerk. >> yes. the item at at least needs 6 votes it only received 5 votes. >> not the motion if the majority of those voting as mr. gibner give us the clarity. >> sure under the charter the board must act by majority the board rules on at that particular timey matter the board may act formulation two weeks ago the board continued on item and amendment it by fewer than 6 it is actually at the on ordinance resolution or motion and approve that requires 6 votes. >> so basically this fails if it didn't receive 6. >> correct. >> okay well unfortunately, the motion fails

madam clerk can you please read the in memoriams. >> madam president i believe that the individuals name is richard dick shaft yes. >> this meeting will be adjoined in memory of mr. dick shaft. >> colleagues this is the of the agenda madam clerk, is there any further business before this body? there's no further business. >> okay. we're i

didn't o- >> sound familiar do you keep on getting up there's an easier way. >> of course there's easier way get rid of of mosquito they breed whatever this is water no water no mosquito mosquito feed on good blood the eggs hatch and stay near the

waters san francisco to breathe and the adult underlying mosquito waits on the as many until it's sexuality hardens water pools in any areas and creates places you'll not normally think of budget and any container that holds water and hidden in bushes or else were dump the water and do it over soil not into a drain the larva can continue growing in the pooled water is sewage disthe first of its kind the area if the sewage is two extreme have a licensed plumber assist water pools in rain gutters and snaking and cleaning out the water when keep the water from pooling and keep in mind that mosquito breed in other waters like catch balgsz and

construction barriers interest crawl spaces with clmg is an issue you may have is week to cause the water to collect this is an sour of mosquito so for buildings just fix the clean air act drains and catch basins can be mosquito ground it will eliminate it as a possible location keep shrubbery and growths estimated any water to can be seen and eliminated birdbath and fountains and uncovered hot tubs mosquito breed but it is difficult to dump the water out of a hot top can't dump the water adding mosquito finish rids the source of mosquito there are also traditionally methods to protect you

installing screens on windows and doors and using a mosquito net and politically aau planet take the time to do the things we've mentioned to eliminate standing water and make sure that mosquito are not a problem on your property remember no water no mosquito

>> hello and welcome to the department and building inspection lunch program. we are talking today about earthquakes and we are going to talk about the issues that make us particularly vulnerable in san francisco and talk about the policy issues and do earthquake response and hopefully in our earthquake recovery.

pat, who is a structural engineer and a guy that has looked at earthquake building upgrades in san francisco, yeah. than anybody and he has his earthquake dog harvey. >> okay. that's enough. and john paxton who is a part of caps and it's a community action plan for seismic safety and sponsored by the department of building. and what are the significant impacts of earthquake and how can we mitigate that to meet the goals we want to make. one of the things we want to talk about are, what are your

reasonable expectations? people have different goals about what they expect. a lot of people say, i live in a house, the city wouldn't let me live in a house that wasn't safe, would they? i live in a brand-new house and it's absolutely fine. those are unreasonable expectations and why they are. there's, for example. nothing that the earthquake proof. that's always stuff inside that is damaged and life line connections, telephone and water that make habitability a problem. san francisco's earthquake hazard has a whole over lay of problems. first is our location. by the 2 faults.

the san andreas, which is off shore of san francisco, and is about how far off shore? maybe a mile. so it's very, very close to the city and runs up to marin, >> a million years of earthquake movement created. that used to be in southern california. it's an active fault and the other is the hay ward fault. geology and other people say this is a fault that is more likely to have slippage. and the hay ward fault runs through the university of california >> right through memorial

stadium, i understand. >> it's one site moving relative to the other >> and downtown san francisco, the heart of san francisco, this is basically almost exactly between the hay ward faults and san andreas. >> although if you live in the richmond district and the hay ward fault goes off, you won't feel the earthquake. you won't be able to stand. >> so what you're saying is the closer you are. >> that's why it's good to be in the middle.

if you are on one extreme and the fault goes off, the shaking will be pronounced >> how many people were in san francisco in 89? anyone in the marina in 89? >> if you were in the main portion, the grou excelleration was 90 percent. if you way 100 pounds, the pound moved with 9 pounds. if the hay ward fault goes off, most of san francisco will feel 20 to 25 percent, the marina which will shake 30 percent. so if the hay ward fault goes off, san francisco will shake 3 or 4 times harder than in 89

and twice as long. >> the haward fault has return cycles plus or minus 10 for the last 140 years. the last was 1868. we are 140 years since the last haward fault went off. so, i would say, it's pretty likely it won't slip within the next 10 years. that will give you ground shakesing 3 to 4 times as last time. >> we have, pat and i and i couple of other people have run a program how to prepare in your life and home with problems related to an earthquake. that's not what our discussion

is today. it's more of a global policy issues. one is proximity to the fault. how certain are geo technical engineering that the actual proximity of the fault is in fact going to affect how strong the ground motion is? does a mile make a difference? >> it came out in kobe earthquake. >> i was actually there. >> the roof came off. it was hard to stand up. i was 6, 7 miles away. in the city, people couldn't stand up. >> they determined using excellerateom ters.

you will have near field effect, the easy way to explain it, if you were standing next to a rail road track. the train makes sound and generates and the sound waves tumble. the same thing happens with an earthquake. those /tkpwraupbd waves tumble upon themselves and increase the intensity of the shaking. it's called near field effect. we probably won't get that on the haward fault, but on the san andreas fault. they will have very pronounced shaking. we will also have more

interaction because of poor soils that interact with earthquake waves. you can have a moderately distant waves and it will be higher in the bay area and people don't realize how much of the city has been filled. there's a tremendous amount filled in and in those areas, the ground will shake dramatically harder. there's a lot of interaction that plays into the interaction of the intensity. >> this map was adopted by the state of california after its study of the areas that are potentially liquifiable. they are wet areas or fill areas that amplify the earthquake forces >> you can actually have the

ground turn to liquid like quick sand. >> if you look at the map, there are green areas and blue areas, just so you can understand, the blue areas are potential landslide areas. that's a different issue. but we do have potential landslide areas. all the green areas are potentially liquifiable. if pat says, you are going to have.9 g. you could have substantial amp liification of this. this fascinating old map from the 1800's. it shows what san francisco looked like before a lot of it was filled. this is the mission district,

the marsh of mission bay went all the way up to 7th and mission. that's how big the marsh is. the bay went up to montgomery street. so all this is bay. all this is bay. all this is bay. do you see these city streets out here? this is a small section of the city. this has all been filled. >> if you look at this map was recently adopted by the state, as their hazhard map. that's what these green areas are. just enormous mission area. >> this is an interesting tid bit. most people don't realize. there was a creek that flowed out of a lake in the mission. the lake was three city blocks large. it was at 17th and valencia.

there's a plaque out there. you could sail a boat up the creek that flowed out into the bay into the lake at 7 the and mission and go sailing. it was that big. that land was so valuable because everybody wanted to live east of twin peaks because the weather was better here. warm. they filled in as much land as they probably could. and then they were forceed to building on the other side of twin peaks. where the weather wasn't as nice. >> i live in inner sunset. in 1906. in the big earthquake, that area had dramatic effect. one building settled down into the lake bed.

>> the largest loss of life was at 17th and valencia hotel. the fire department came in, drown the people in the basement and the fire came and killed a bunch more people. across the street, there was a 3 story building any after the earthquake, the first floor went straight down. didn't crush. just liquified and created 1 story basement. >> we have unusual soil conditions and then, on top of that, we have built environment. we have buildings built of all different kinds of construction types and dates. when you put those together.

maybe you are sitting on rock areas that are built solidly that will have little impact and you have other buildings, soft story buildings and people have essentially the same expectation. >> and the building department would come knock on my door and tell me it wasn't safe >> there are very few retrofitted laws. you have to make brick buildings saver. >> you have to reduce the risk of life lost. >> so the brick building standard is a low standard. it was to prevent catastrophic

collapse. the brick buildings, we have 1800 of them. most have been upgraded to prevent catastrophic deaths. it's the lowest possible >> and they might need to be torn john. by the way, this was lori johnson. this is our risk analysis and has done work to reconstruction especiallily in kobe and post katrina. >> thanks for joining us >> you are going to be coming to the caps meeting. >> i am on the advisory committee. >> most of san francisco of densely built and not very tall.

>> what is the relationship of hazard between large buildings and the typical san francisco low rise? >> most large buildings are structural steel buildings and they do well in earthquakes. there's a class there were popular in the 50's and 60's, there's a lot of apartment buildings, about 10 or 15 story tall. they are the worst class to be in. those midrise buildings >> how many of those do you think there are? >> about 500 plus or minus 200. >> we have seen how they perform. for example, in mexico city. >> they look like stacks of pan cakes. they built row after row of

these concrete buildings and mexico city is built around an island in the middle and a big lake and they filled it in, just like san francisco. the floors were stacked like this. it looked like a stack of pan cakes. >> how did this compare older buildings of the 1920's or 30's? >> they will have more reenforcing in them. they had a tendency to use more round columns with spiral hoops. they don't necessarily catastrophicly collapse. in a perverse sense, the 50's

and 60's buildings, you don't want to be in. i am in a 1920 building >> i wanted to clarify, we have beautiful, very ornate buildings they are taller. a lot of apartment buildings. >> those are mostly steel framed buildings. in the 50's and 60's, they wanted to create open floor spaces and they went to concrete spaces and thought it was great until the san fernando earthquake and the earthquake came and the

building disappeared. they said, oops and changed the code immediately. >> we look at it and say, it didn't do what we thought. the codes are rarely perspective. how can we make that happen? they wait for a catastrophe and then change it >> just to clarify. we don't have instrumentation to record the shaking and to do a computer simulation is difficult to do without the

data. we only learn through events. not all the records we have are indicative of how every earthquake shaking event will be like. >> we have recently amended the code to have instruments in them so we can record and how much the earth has moved. that's terrific. not many existing buildings are instrumented. one the things we will look at, at the caps program is to retrofit them. we can look at other after earthquakes. it had similar types of faults we have here. there are a lot of similarities. >> there is something, of the

type of construction. there are debate about how they will perform. we know how soil conditions will affect. how good your building is, is going to be predominated by soil conditions. if you put 3 engineers in the room, you get 5 opinions. there are buildings that engineers can look at and agree there's not a chance in hell it will survive. there are buildings where there's no reasonable belief, matter of fact, we would be shocked the building would still be standing in an earthquake. >> the after earthquakes that are common and then we have the

design earthquakes that we use to think about what is the reasonable earthquake and then we have the maximum possible earthquake, like the 1906. >> 500-year retu6-cycle. >> i take it back. most wood frame buildings, probably pre-existed before code >> which was in the early 70's? >> they had requirements in the 50's and 60's. we don't consider building code until 1973. major buildings, was designed by a genious and it was ahead of the time. they required an engineer. smaller buildings, you didn't

need an engineer on all of them. >> basically, if your building was built before early 70's. it's likely to have some earthquake resistance and resilience of the cost of construction. it wasn't specifically designed to with with stand and earthquake. >> most of the sun stream homes. these are track homes, mostly built to speck homes. built the way they always built. they have a degree of earthquake resistance. >> they have a tendency to pound together and the buildings in the middle survive because the earthquake isn't long enough. the individual at the end of the block is like the book at the end of shelf. they fall over and the next one falls over. >> in the marina.

we saw corner believes collapse. >> there are 2 ways to look at earthquakes. i think each one of us wants to know how our house, where we live is going to perform. we also need to look at how the city is going to perform. pat makes a good point, most the newer buildings will perform better. keep in mind, the studies we have done certainly show is that most the vulnerable buildings will be residential. half of the residential units were built before world war ii. we have a very old housing stock. we have the oldest housing stock this side of mississippi. and that's where our problems are most likely to be. >> i going to test the

microphone and ask people how you expect your home to perform. >> anybody who wants to share. tell us, what kind of building. do you live in a wood frame >> yes >> after a major earthquake. what's your expectation. >> i am afraid from last year's earthquake class, you mentioned. the house might pop to the street because my garage is empty. >> is it in the middle of the block? >> middle. >> there's less chance. sir, what kind of building do you live in? >> i live in an apartment if ground floor parking. >> in the middle of the block,

corner. >> corner. >> are there openings on both sides? >> yes. on both sides. >> it's a wood framed building? >> it seems to be a hybrid. with concrete and steel and wood frame on top of that. >> we don't often see that. modern buildings have a podium. >> what neighborhood are you in >> dolores park. >> you will hit the lake. if are in the dolores, you are in pretty good shape. >> what is your expectation of what your building is going to be like after a major

earthquake? >> i am really not sure. that's my concern. >> i see. this gentlemen is correct. his concern is his building. you have to look at it block by block. you can see that the edges of the fill area vary block by block. let me point out in cole valley, there was an old pond and an amusement park with a trolley. that pond was filled in, that's a potential liquify site. so we have to look at the soil. >> there are area that is are

fascinating. westportal, there was a creek that flowed all the way down to pig lake. i think that's what the spanish called it. there was a deep ravine. they filled it in with the tunnel muck and they filled in the ravine and built houses. the other area is really interesting, down 18th street. there was a creek coming from eureka. there is a street called pond. it's not a coincidence. >> part of what we're going too try to do is update this map and give it historical data.

there are more significant data. >> how do you know if your individual lot? >> one is these lines are very clearly defined as boundaries. they don't actually mean, this is the exact edge. you could be on one side or the other. it's not okay here and not okay 10 feet away. but, on the other hand, we have taken this map, which was published by the state and digitized it so if any portion lies within these zones. if you tell me your address, i can tell you whether you lie it >> there's a book. >> 558-6205 and the clerk or me will take the book and look it up and say, yes, you lie within

a particular zone >> i am the manager of a large condo minnium project. it was built in 1963. it's steel and concrete >> there's a difference between structural steel and rebarb. >> it's steel columns. thank you goodness. >> 19 stories and i live across the street in a building that was built i believe in 1920 and i brought my staff here because we want to, as a team, be prepared with our building and the owners who live there. >> so her question is, how can someone find out what they should be prepared for? >> the first thing is to see if

the there are original plans for their building >> should they hire someone >> someone need to verify if you are structural steel frame. there's a high likelihood there's a plan. if you are a concrete frame, you have a set of concerns. >> the first thing, i recommend everybody do this. get a complete set of documents for your building from accessor's office and other office in a city and put them in a notebook and you have all your documents. here, you can ask to get all the permits, plans, job cards, sign off sheets.

special inspection. get everything. there's no reason why the city should be a source of this. then, if you ever want to be a building expansion, you have the documents. you can have that done as well. >> you said something about getting plans for your building. what if you are in one of the 50 percent that were built a long time ago? i have a 1903 building >> most the plans and permits for pre-1906 were destroyed in the fire. except for the larger buildings. many of the plans are available in berkeley. most of those were destroyed.

>> there's not much there. >> you can also go back and get original water department records >> actually, the story is, the city had 2 water companies that were privately owned. spring valley and another one. their headquarters were at crystal springs. that was actually the ceo. he wanted to build his house. their stuff was held outside of the city. after the 06 earthquake, one of the reports by the city was, all the fire hydrants were tied to spring valley.

the city said this is crazy. they actually put in a second war supply and municipalized. all the records were transferred to the water department, they are at 1155 market and they are all the way back to 1868. it will be $0.37 to hook up with your water >> also on your question, the cost in having a structural engineer take a look at your building is a very, very small percentage of the building's value. i think whether we have a large

condominium, your building is static and the type of soil you're silting on and certain types of deterioration, and once you have that inspection done, you will sleep much better and make rational decisions on how you want to priorityize. >> i totally agree with you, the plans are part of the history. would i be able to get them? >> they have the water hook up and the date your building was legalized. >> if it's an apartment building, most engineers know where you are in the soil conditions and can give you an

expectation of the performance. most wood frame believes do well on the first, second and third floors. the upper stores act as a rigid block. but the garage level is an open floor plate. the total drift is a thing you can look at without paying too much attention. if the building is stiff. instead of it being uniform, can all be forced to that lowest story. you are standing there and someone knocks your knees out and you fall down. that's what can happen to soft

story buildings. >> i think a lot of us don't pay enough attention to the nonstructural damage. here we are in this room, nonstructural damage can be to the sealing, so here's a story. in the 1989 earthquake, that's the day the marriott hotel opened. it has that little bar at the top. up at the top of building, it swayed back and forth and the ceiling planes shaved off a sprinkler and it flooded the top floor. >> it's a big problem. in north ridge, it was a huge

problem. there was tremendous losses because your shoot rock gets wet. it's like having a flood. we are on a group trying to look at all the issue in san francisco and make recommendations. whether it responds and does well. the subsequent issue is fire, which we haven't talked about here. with fire goes gas line breaks and water line breaks not being able to protect the structure once it happens. all those utility things come into play. as a homeowner's association, you have to anticipate as a resident of san francisco, there's going to be a lot of

ground deformation and our utilities will have problems. we recently had window storms and while pg and e has done a wonderful job, there will be breaks. you will be able to camp in your argument. it would be like you went away for a long time for a camping trip. you will be able to change the thinking about where people go. one of the big issues in katrina, people were forceed to evacuate. if we had a large fire. we might have to force an evacuation. >> one the things we're trying

to develop is an expectation, this is our bottom line expectation for building performance. your building, while it might not be damaged. will it be sufficient to camp out it? >> we are not quite there yet. >> that's the kind of expectation. >> i think we should pass this along to the audience. there should be design standards. there's a discussion, what should our design standards be for new construction? and the building department, we on caps are going to say, what standards should those be? and there's a group of us that have come up with a concept that hasn't been universally

adopted of at some point in the future, this might be 15, 20, 25 years out, where our retrofits and our renovations are implemented at that point. it's not going to happen within next week. but where occupants of buildings, 95 percent of the population can expect to shelter in place within 12 hours of an earthquake. that's where a group of us feel we should be designing towards. who's going to benefit? these are details of what we're trying to figure out and address. >> as a general contractor, i see hundred year old buildings and they have brick foundation or inadequate foundation. minimal concrete. everything is done with

stainless steel and granite. but the next door neighbor could have brand-new. you are still vulnerable. i understand on commercial buildings we have umb restrictions. otherwise the city will come in. >> if someone fails to upgrade, we with would make them do it. >> what about residential? if you have a monster next to you? >> there are no retroactive requirements. i think i might take issue with a next door neighbor. >> my client should hire

someone. but you have a monster on full bricks. >> you can, if you have a risk, next to a very tall building, that building can give you hazards. you can also be on the other extreme. i would tell you to leave the brick building in place. the performance of your building will be way on down the food chain. i would also say that just because your building survived a 1906 earthquake, >> it wasn't a big earthquake. the building was built in 1989. there are a lot of large buildings that did and there are a lot of didn't. >> i can talk to our insurance agent and says this is a

serious one that comes up. we would not have enough to pay with everybody in the area. >> that has to do with cea. the amount of money they have in reserves is based on a 20-year return cycle. they haven't had 20 years >> our buildings are 80 or 90 areas old. our agents said, we will merely pay you $120 per square foot. if that should fall down, we won't be able to pay out every client. it doesn't make sense. that's why we choose not to purchase >> there are a lot of things that come into play with that. when you pay a premium, you are paying into a reserve.

so the cea builds up a reserve. they can't build up the reserve otherwise. that's how their building it. the national flood insurance is a public pool. the same thing is true there. they didn't have enough in their reserves to pay out the returns. congress had to pass legislation to authorize the replenishment. that's how these pools are set up. government is involved in how the additional funding comes. i am not specific with how it works in california. part of the reason states are putting this up as opposed to a company that does this.

>> so, how do we as a homeowners or renters know who is a sound structural engineer? >> how about i answer since i'm not an engineer. you can take comfort, we in san francisco have the largest community of seismic activity and structural engineers. we have a lot of concerned citizens that aren't engineers that are asking questions like you're asking. i think the essential questions on how your building is going to do, there's going to be a lot of consensus on any group of engineers on how your building is likely to perform in terms of getting on the margins of the issues, the

percentage of damage your building might have or specific issues in terms of repair, there might be agreement on that. i think the science and the art are to the point for the big questions and big answers, there's a lot of consensus on that. i would take comfort on that. >> i agree with that. >> i think it was a joke, engineers talking about them. our buildings are not that difficult to access. people would be able to point out 90 percent with clear consensus. there might be differences on details like brick foundation. there are things people would see as unique. you should have comfort, i don't know, if it's the

registered structural >> it's abag.gov. within the earthquake section, there's information about retrofitting wood structures and a list of engineers. a lot of these are single family. i think there are engineers listed there too. i might be wrong. it's a great resource and the associations staff went through and looked at them. if you are a contractor, you might want to get in there.

it's free advertising. >> i have to say, in san francisco, we have so many difficult buildings. these are all one off buildings. it requires an engineer to take a look. >> not just a contractor >> not just prioritize. >> just going straight to a contractor. >> i said that with a caveat. that's for a single-family, cripple wall, >> yes, i am a contractor. i find in the public, there's a lot of confusion. could you talk about the generally standards of retrofitting. i think people need to understand, the generally accepted standards to which you

can strengthen a building. >> basically, there's a spectrum all the way from 1886, whatever their performance might be. meet what the state of the art is or what the future code might be. we have this range of potential. someone says, i needed code. you mean 1908? 1930. or 2007 or proposed 2009. so there's a huge spectrum. san francisco has made a determination. >> officially retrofitted. >> it should be 75 percent of the current 2007 code.

okay. 75 percent, we say, we're going to call that collapse prevention standard. >> you can out least stay in your house >> it will be referencing this standard. 75 percent of the current code. it's a real wide range. if you use the special procedures, you could find it for bricks and each type of buildings and structures. >> there are buildings that have been retrofitted and as a group, we say, maybe they are not deserving of being called 104 s buildings. if you are a licensed structural engineer, you can give people some idea.

if you retrofit the garage, you can stay in the upper floors. then it becomes an art. you want to talk to a structural engineer. some of the high rise buildings, we were able to accurately model it down to 7 figures. we designed buildings down to that level the accuracy. it's an art and you want to talk to someone that does this for a living. >> i couple of final comments. one the best things is to help you prioritize. pat and i have looked at hundreds of earthquake

buildings, may be thousands, the smallest amount of work you do, as an enormous return. >> 89, there was a building, in marina, they built opposite buildings. i went into one, had no damage. not a lick. the building next to it, identical, trash. the difference was the guy put on anchor bolts. just the fact he put in anchor bolts. he was staying there. >> i have seen the same thing with 2 sheets of plywood. i want to mention, typical san francisco buildings. we have a huge variety. we have things in the middle of

the midblock held up by adjoining buildings. it's held up. it can't fall down. >> so if you live in the midblock, we have corners and have almost all agreed. wood framed soft story buildings, poses substantial hazards. they have few interior partitions. this is a serious hazard. now only do we potentially lose a believe, but the neighborhood serving grocery store. these have potential for enormous impact. how do we reduce that. here's another example. we have these huge variety buildings. this thing is held up with toothpicks. how does it stay up with wind

loads? we have things with marginal maintenance and i think a chimney is a significant hazard. think about how to brace your chimney. we don't want to have people being in there's earthquake shacks. we don't have plans. we don't have a plan what we're going to do for housing. >> we know we don't want to be in formaldehyde trailers. >> i want to use the word plan. i will say, i think one of the things we do in our life. we plan for retirement.

you think about social security. your children who might take care of you. any 401 k. you have to look at earthquakes and make a plan. you need to think about the things to have access. backing up your hard drive. have been your family on the east coast have copies of valuable documents so they are not lost and also this issue of risk. how much risk do you want to retain? don't invest in retrofitting if you financially don't need that. if you don't have investment in that structure. it might not be significant for you. take a holistic view.

>> the american red cross has a plan. you can get only at red cross.org. they have planning for your family. contact information, making sure there's a central contact. in my case. there's family in the east coast. >> all of the systems get flooded and cell towers are going to go down. they have a limited life. so if you're able to recharge your cell phone. the system might go down texting is quite possible to do. people in katrina were able to do that. having a central point of

contact to say, i am okay. that person can receive that information. your grandmother may not be the person to do that. no offense grandma. think holisticly when you think about the future. what it's like to live. imagine living in a disaster for several weeks >> thank you for coming today and we hope this has enlightened you. thank you very much. see you next month.

thank you for coming. this is the department of building inspection brown bag lunch series at the department of building inspection. i am the chief inspectionor and we're looking at a interesting topic today which is commercial signs in san francisco. everybody has a point of view. some people love them. some hate them. they have a meaning and an important part to play, so it will be a fun tour, and i have signs to show you and use as a base of discussion and westbou e your questions. we have two quests introduce. jeanine pab pabilsky and she's an artist and a cultural historian and the

founder of "bureau of urban secrets". >> it was found #- founded in 2g the dot com boom and engage artists and helping us interpret the city and we have done about 25 art projects in the city, and the most recent project is still on going and historically document the experience of the statutes of jaun bastila and king carter of the third and founding of san francisco and then homeless and upcoming we have a project of landsend.

>> artistic intervention. i love that phrase and we have scott sanchez from the planning department who is heavily involved in the sign issues. what are you working on now scott? >> we are launching the sign inventory so it's going to be an inventory of the advertising signs in the city and county of san francisco. we are getting inventories of sign companies and doing surveys. >> i understand that we are doing a city wide historical building inventory. are they linked together? >> no just for preservation and we will work together where we can. >> while you are out there i need some stuff i need to know. seriously once we are around looking stuff and we can populate the data base with other good information. that's great. we're glad to hav to yo

we have a couple folks also here from sign america. thank you very much and i invited them to talk about the sign process. we have a lot of people here that know about signs. signs are such a big issue here in san francisco. i divided up the pictures and topics into four basic parts of the first is signs that advertise the commercial property for which they are located and here are the 500 club of the i think it's at 17th and valencia and somewhere in the planning department said

and visible signs of represent and one of the things we really want to see and some people don't agree. i can share my point of view and you as well. another sien sign we're going tk at are the general advertising signs and corner of mission and 17th and r replace the other sign that was up there and hopefully an issue in the city and hopefully we can talk a little bit about that. another type of sign that you see are historic signs and signs that are both on buildings and in some cases those historic businesses are still in operation. do we still have abbert flap jacks around?

me neither. and the fourth category is all the other stuff going on in the city and how are they regulated and what -- do we like them? is it a good thing? this is down in the mission and these folks are actually on a mural walk using a guide through the mission so let's start with the mateeny class. you can never have too many martinis? >> it adds to the day. >> okay. good. this is on the 24th -- i think bryant. the building code says when you build something with a permit and you're able to keep it unless the code retro activity

changes. how old do you think it is? >> (inaudible). >> 50 years old. there is nothing retro actively that says that have you to remove a sign. is that correct? >> 24r was a case on there was a case on market street and we did it for signs and a couple had to be removed but generally no. once it's non conforming could remain until the end of the life of the sign. >> so generally that is the case with all building issues is that are you permitted to retain those that were properly installed with a permit unless there is specific legislation that says otherwise typically. is this a flag sign? is that what they call signs that stick out like that? >> projection signs. >> projecting -- projection

signs and it's painted and neon and the required martini glass and you can see it's stabilized by wires to keep it from falling and the wind from pushing it side ways. the signs are regulated in the building and planning code and requires it for all signs and we will talk about what "all signs" means and does it include the sign that says "special summer sale" and the building code and the planning code goes into great detail of the requirements for signs. >> square footage and whether projecting on an awing. >> okay. this is market and valeensia and this is the sign and you can't have too many neon because i understand that you're allowed to have a sign on either face of a corner building. is that right?

>> depends if you're going to have a business sign and the business is on one side of the building and could extend but not on that side unless the business was -- >> in this case they have a sign on this side and on the backside and then a flat area facing directly across to market street which is a third sign and with an interpretive issue whether they're allowed to have a sign on that, and that's where we said you can't have too many martini glass -- not a glass but a beautiful fish sign -- where is it? seventeenth in the portero area and here is one of the corners we're looking at, and what is interesting about this slide to me, and maybe you can share thoughts. it does not have the gigantic sign and there is no sign "this is the something

kava". >> this is one of the exceptio exceptions. >> and this is interesting and you can't have too many martini signs in the city but there are neighbors that would say you could have too many bars and there is a sense of changing w e way people use the city and you look at the martini signs and imagine people kicking back with a drink at the neighborhood bar and a place that you felt at home and maybe you conducted business if you had that kinds of business to connect, and in a way in the city and a lot of that -- even though we like to drink has been replaced by the cafe and it has a different look and no one would say at this point that you couldn't have enough starbucks in the city and that as a meeting place has

replaced the bar and how do they present themselves and how do we understand that starbucks may seem says intrusive but 50 years from now we will yearn for that and got the prozac at the corner dispenser rather than the cafe or the martini bar and how do the signs become a memory? >> and another old corner with a similar kind of design where it has the small window lines among the glazing and the reason they built these and the plate glass windows and typically have an awing and the window above would light it and the awnings would shade the produce and other

things and if you're walking by there watch out she's about to throw the water into the gutter. >> is that a violation? >> she should clean the sidewalk. >> that is interesting too. there is a lot of discussion and you guys probably know more about this than me and the larger ceiling heights and more retail space and allows for the delightful space for sign space as well and the old lip ton tea signs are a memory of what the corner retail spaces could be like. >> right. these are separate signs that we have on the judda street, golden bear market is one side and painted on to the windows. are they considered signs by the planning

department? >> they have the business sign and the amount of street footage dedicated to that and the square footage of all the signs together so we would calculate -- basically draw a box around the letter and the square footage. we don't regulate the content of the signs and general advertising signs, and when it comes to us a lot of them put it up like that. >> are the miller litte and corona signs in your view? >> they are allowed 1/3 or 25 square feet and advertising on the business sign and wheneve wr and can contain the seven up on there. >> is there a difference between an awing that is used with lettering on it and a general advertising sign for a specific

business location? >> we consider general advertising sign the advertisement of a good, service that is not available on the premises or is only -- you know, more of incidental presence on the premise, so we consider anything general advertising meeting that definition. >> with a particular business with an awing lettering or identifying signs on the awing is calculated into the same calculation as determine whether they are using their allowable advertising for that location? >> right. for the business sign. when you can have the sign on the awing and that is based on the square footage. >> and one more awning question and i know they have talked

about new guidelines in businesses in our district. do you know whether or not that is possible for the corner stores? >> we are working on a survey of downtown to develop sign guidelines for the downtown district. i'm not aware for that district. >> you mentioned that you don't regulate the content of general advertising signs. i am wondering what is there threshold of language and somebody say this language offensive, substandard. >> no. issues have been raised with various clothing stores but in terms of actual regulation we don't regulate the content. >> obviously lines of profanity. >> it then might go to a police issue but we wouldn't regulate it.

>> about the sign and the aliens and big brouhaha and the board of supervisors took it up. >> i don't have information on that. >> yeah. i think part of it - >> down by the market street and i will pass it around and you can see that the office is totally covered with signs so this -- signs are not a new thing and there are more signs here than we have today and we don't have as many on the downtown buildings. >> i think part of that is in 1913 a city ofs a place of culture, commerce, and industry and the signs in a literal and metaphorical way were present in the city but we're debating now

what cities are and sustainabl sustainablity and environmentalism and once you say that maybe signs are not a part of the city or unnatural or don't speak to the values of a non consumer oriented culture and make clear for example. i think this kind of notion and the notion of signs and beautification is also an issue. >> this picture shows both the general advertising. this used to be the buy it yourself casket company. you could beretail caskets. what a loss to the city. it says on the window for

lease and there is a provision in the planning code when a business is gone the sign has to be removed within a certain lent olength oftime. do you know th? >> no not off hand and the business sign goes with the business and once it's gone not considered a business sign. >> and it's in the code and it says how long you have and i think 90 days and the business code says that as well. here is another one of the corner signs and it's interesting it's not a modern starbucks kind of institutional sign but independent individual sign and a great restaurant too by the way. here we go. we're in another district here. we have hand painted signs and in some ways around the city you see

these signs and made by people rather than contacted out to the sign paren paint are but it coue the sign painter. do these count as part of it? >> generally they're painted on the window like that and you can have them in the city and the temporary signs and painted on. >> fascinating. on 24th street a new store and unfortunately displacing one of the old kind serving stores and up scale women's lingerie shop and i think it's called "pink" and i maybe the text is in pink. >> there is no text. what you see is what you get. >> i wonder how you calculate

them into the area of the sign do you think? >> seems to be a symbol representative of the use and we would consider that as well. >> so the sign and not the lerling of the sign. >> the emblem. >> excellent. and illuminated and do you have different regulations? >> yes this is a indirectly imlum naited signs and we have different regulations. >> right and we have special permit requirements for illuminated signs and non illuminated signs as well, and this is one -- we have two forms and form four and seven -- signed permit forms and basically the same as other building permits and the owner's representative submits

information and issued to the building owner and the sign permit as far as we are concerned is the property of the building owner and there are big court cases and issues and who owns the actual sign. the permit is always -- and the responsibility for maintaining the property including the sign is the property of the building owner. we have a question here? >> illuminated sign is same as neon sign? >> yeah and neon sign and illuminated and you could have something like this and light prosjected on the sign and that is indirectly illuminated. >> are there certain areas neon signs are prohibited? >> yeah and controls and residential sign and not allowed to have them. >> and (inaudible) and no signs. >> i can check the controls and

it has its own for the north beach. there are certain a lawnessas in north beach whether you can relocate signs and if you can't reloathe a existing illuminated sign. >> we have an interesting array of signs here and signs that are both letters and become the whole store front facade and again i guess it's a challenge for the planning department and here is the sign and here is not sign. >> yeah and definitely when you have the graphics here that go along with the sign where do you draw the line? you have to look and see what is representative of the sign name and you would do that. >> the wasteland. a wonderful sign if you like that sort of thing. not everybody does.

backside of portero i think. people come up with logos. this is one that i had to study for a long time before i could figure out the message here. it is such a special art and skill to have a clear message. sometimes you have these -- what is the message. >> are those flames coming out of -- >> yeah. the butler and the ship. >> and talking about commercial signs. is it only affixed to the building? for example where i live in nob hill area and they are putting signs in trees and digging into the ground and does that cover by building? >> when you have real estate it's exempted and whether on the building or the sidewalk.

>> and these signs have been a big issue in the city. i don't think there is a resolution for the city what is enforced in the city. i know people complain and the police go out and public works and it's okay. move it. you always have to cleep the sidewalk clear. i think the minimum is 4 feet. is that right? i think you have to keep 4 feet clear and they are a problem. public works regulate that and the public right-of-way including the street and sidewalk. this is another one of the interesting signs where the message is -- it's a beautiful sign. this gold heart shrouded with a black item and what is the message? skate boards on hate. >> okay. we are running the

border maybe what is considered art and graffiti and what could be a business sign. it's interesting. >> they know their clientele well and this is on mission street. i think this is an extremely elegant sign and almost never seen and often you see on buildings but designed tintoto be mixed that like thats unusual. what makes this interesting to me and the stand off and shadows that give it a second level of interest and detail. >> the depth and it's very clean. >> and those are all the signs when they hang around turn into the other sign and they're mo module and you can imagine a letter missing or rearranging them and something intended to -- and the 17 reason sign and

what everybody projects on it. if it was about buying furniture or turned out and why you loved the mission and the letters floating around and reused to make signs for other businesses there is a pizza restaurant in oakland that came about and the people that originally started it had this in the ad and nothing else. >> and the park side and these neighborhood iconic places now and hanging on the building and that kind of script is sort of there.ing identification and it's interesting in the back and pored out over the sidewalk and the kitchen and a no, no near the building code and the public

works code. >> so the park side painted its name on the majority of the side of the building. one can presumably buy certain products within the establishment. if that sign for park side included a very large beer or alcohol sign advertising what it is they're selling would that be exempt from the limitation on outside advertising? >> no there is the allowance in the code and the business sign and certain amount square footage dedicated towards advertising use, but general advertising is -- it could be beer and going to be for something more than just -- it is something that is not just available on premises and similar use. >> if it's intrinsic to what the

business does how does one separate what is advertising the park side and what is advertising the -- >> if they had miller beer would that be -- >> let's say it's within the allowable. >> and accessory to the business signs. >> bagels. this is such a traditional thing to hang up a sign that actually shows people what it is, and i think that maybe sort of historically important for people who either didn't -- couldn't read hundreds years ago. i have a book of old japanese signs and there is basically a picture of the element, the picture of a sword, an actual sword, gigantic

sword. is that an icon and is that part of the sign? >> i don't know if you could make it part of the argument that it's art work or architect url feature. >> and the store window is covered with records. >> you know what is in the store. >> you sure do. this is a japanese restaurant and that is called a noran and that is the sign and when they're open they put it up and when they're closed they take it away. then we have some of these wonderful old signs that represent our history, the wis burgers, the cable car burgers out on geary, lovely stuff and well maintained and the signs are still part of the business. one of my favorite signs is this

motorcycle shop sign. i think it's an old honda dream something like that up there flying. this is a sign out in mission for something called "light". i don't know what it is. there are lots of people hanging around. looks like a cultural center. i was going to ask you about the supplementary pieces on the building and the cigarette ads and what of that is allowed? >> generally the clutter is not allowed. we had cases in north beach and had to remove them and could be advertising cell phone companies and had the banners and that could be considered a general advertising sign depending how much they have and we have to look at that and the zoning and whether it's allowed. >> but that seems to add to the

character of the neighborhood? what do you think? is it part of the character? >> yeah, i think about that a little bit, and it is like art to the degree that it asks you to think what the city values and there was a time when the city really valued entrepreneurial energy and with these type of stores and immigrant entrepreneurial energy and you come to the new world, and going to make a go of it, and you're going to do everything you can to make your business work. there is a lovely graphic artist cater and i think some of his work is in u.s. weekly and he has a series about a real estate photographer and this character wanders through the city that is kind of like new york and not and a really important part of the city and how it speaks through

ingenuity and a will to make a go of it. now that is the intention and north beach is the example and the stakeholders pride and the people that regard it as their community and want it a certain way and have sern elegance and generosity and consistency that is at odds of this and the chicago model and the flower baskets all over and do they make the city welcoming or homogenized and the bay area and san francisco. it's a trade off and a balancing act that i am sure you work with all the time. >> i agree. and according to the complaints we see that the citizens don't value the temporary signs and banners. >> there are exceptions. chinatown. >> cultural -- and again this

is captureed in a joke of people that open up businesses to go out of business and advertising "going out of business. last chance" and next month a similar store opens and does the same thing. >> and we have talked about the exceptions and temporary signs. >> yeah and that is exempted for the temporary use. >> clearance sale. this is a permanent clearance sale. >> yeah they're gone now. i have bought there before. they have left. >> we talked about the a frame signs and in some ways people are doing what they can to take the business succeed. a small computer business. >> and the nail business and the sandwich board. >> here is the first class shoe sign in chinatown. yes, sir? >> do the sidewalk signs a frame

require a permit. >> any taking up of the street space requires a permit. >> and it's on the first floor and there is somebody staffed there all the time and they can issue permits. >> and require minor sidewalk encroachment and 875 stevennen son fourth floor. >> and in regards to the closing out signs in the stores if a person is not closing out but using it to lure people is that under the building -- in other words closing out to get you in there to buy stuff and it's not really closing out. >> we have different provisions for about the 30, 60, 90 days of what we consider a temporary sign, so i mean if the sign was up there indefinitely no longer considered a temporary sign and then that could require a permit

depending where the sign is located. >> we would probably respond to a complaint about that. we don't have inspectors timing how long the sign is up. if someone files a complaint we will check it out. >> if it's up there for a length greater what we consider temporary use depending on the zoning and up to 90 days for a temporary sign. >> i am doing something dishonest. >> it's consumer fraud. >> yes. >> here is more today's special some more -- >> and that street is a good example and obviously people frequent that street everyday and tourist street and people passing through and on vacation and don't have a memory that the store is going out of business for two years and that is why that entrepreneurial device works in that location. >> that was the same stuff that was up there yesterday. i don't know if that is fraud. it's

just business i think. now, here is a case -- jeanine you were saying people are doing what they can and a tiny massage shop and they have every device to get you in there and the picture of the body and the awning and the sign and the fliers. you can take one and little things as you walk by and everything but somebody standing outside with a hook actually, and they're really trying. it's a difficult place to start a little business. there is not much traffic there on that street. may have not been a good business decision to open up therapeutic massage there. >> how about signs on residential buildings? what do you think about that scott? do you need a permit for that? >> there are allowances for identifying signs on residential

buildings and permits required there are exemptions and you could have a street number and that doesn't require a permit but something like this and you're getting into the structural part and i think a permit would be needed. >> it's not highly regulated. >> we have limitations and identifying signs. here is a sign with some history. maybe somebody remembers this. this sign came to the board of appeals and i have been working with them for years on and off and there was a complaint in the planning department and they had sign without a permit and exceeded the area and the planning code and directed to take it down and this was yesterday. so we have problems

enforcing some of our zigs and orders. it's almost a historic sign and up there so long and it's elegant. downtown, the most amazing things we don't have signs on all of these buildings. how is that possible? and not like tokyo and hong kong what is going on? >> strict regulations and the heights and you don't see a lot of signs at the top of the buildings so that's why you have the clear san francisco skyline that we're famous for. >> but we do have some -- >> yeah there are several signs you will see and non conforming signs but in the c2 district you can't have a a sign 60 feet and we have to keep in mind the signs have been in the planning code since 1965 and before that not governed. >> and legal non conforming at

this time and if you take down a legal non conforming sign with the intention to replace it and there is legislation that you can't take it down. >> right once it's voluntarily taken down you can't replace it you can maintain it but you can't take it down and replace it. >> okay. let's move on to one of the biggest issues in the city and the billboard issue. look at the size of that thing. so this is the triangle of land show place square area and the sign recal probably brings in me revenue than the restaurant. how much money do they make? >> they can make up to a half million dollars a month in revenue from one of these signs and this is potential amount of

money being generated by the signs. >> and there was a proposition -- >> prop g passed and since 2002 all general advertising signs are illegal and no new ones since that time. >> and means you're advertising something that is not for sale on the premises? >> right. >> but existing billboards are allowed to be retained? >> exactly. as long as they had the proper permits they're allowed to be maintained until the end of their natural life. >> and in order to assure that they were erected with the proper permits and that they are the right size they are now required to have a notice on them and i think we may have one of these notices somewhere. >> per planning section code they need the permit number that authorizes the sign, the sign company and the dimensions of

the sign, so you will see those numbers up on the signs. >> somebody has a question. >> was there any interest to eliminate them from the city? would there be any possibility to do that. >> with prop g i mean there is natural attrition as the signs age -- >> (inaudible). >> exactly and with the inventory and with the survey we will be doing and identify signs that were erected pout permit and pursuing course of actionos those signs. >> and you mentioned about the character and defining the character of the city billboards are one of the things american culture. i mean i personally think in the city those don't need to go. who does it benefit? is it a revenue stream for the city or the commercial businesses? >> the revenue is good for the general advertising company. they will have that and the property owners and some of the

revenue will go back to them depending on the lease but in terms for the city there is none. >> jeanine you had something. >> when i was looking at the last slide and you just don't know and you think there was probably a point in the city "for god's sake not another doggy dinner" and we don't need anymore of these things gunking it up and now of course we love it and i love it too. what i try to imagine in 25 years oh it's the last big billboard in the market area and we don't want to lose it. >> so is this going to phase out. >> prop g is in effect since 2002. >> and it's permanent and no more. >> right. zero new advertising

signs allowed and only when it's relocated from another location. >> and you say we expect attrition will reduce them. i think that the values of these signs we're going to see little or no attrition. we may see some relocation. >> i think there a good number of signs that don't have the proper permits as well and you will see signs if they don't have the required information up there that could be evidence that they received the proper permits so there could be a got of general advertising signs coming down. >> or scott and the planning department and in charge of the enforcement and you say we don't have a record of your permit and what that starts is a very long debate between the building owner and the sign companies making a lot of money in the city and with the attorneys and

what is allowed and what is not allowed. we rarely see them taken down. they fight every step of the way. >> we will under take a sign inventory and the sign companies are going to be submitting inventories of their general advertising signs and this is in conjunction with new legislation that was sponsored by supervisor peskin that provides for relocation of a sign or at least application to relocate a sign that it can only be done through an agreement with the board of supervisors and if the sign inventory has all been shown to be legal and there is no pending violations -- i think as you showed in an earlier slide problems even when the board of appeals has found that a sign was illegal getting the sign

down and because of that supervisor peskin is also sponsoring amendments to section 610 of the planning code that would provide for administrative hearings and penalties that would be enforceable particularly in conjection with the city attorney to try and deal with those cases where there just hasn't been compliance. >> thank you. this is a gigantic sign and it's interesting. it's getting cheaper and easier to manufacture billboards and signs. we no longer have the hand painted signs. we have vinyl signs just produced out of a printer from a computer. you of doing that kind of sign, is that right? >> it's getting more and more difficult to getting spaces to put up signs and largely controlled by a couple of companies doing the outside

advertising. it's unlikely we will get the space. we can get the material but they control it. >> as we look along we see general advertising mixed with the advertising for the retail spaces and the right spot. this historic neon sign we hope some day gets restored. >> that is a good example with the required information, the permit number, the dimensions. >> here is another sign and advertising the yellow pages and over the building. is this considered general advertising? >> yeah that is considered general advertising sign. so in that case if it was after the proposition they can't have it? >> exactly. >> this picture is interesting. somebody said how about if the general advertising sign is inside the building? and here we have one of those frames and advertising snakeos a

plane inside the building. is this a general advertising sign? >> it could be considered general advertising sign but i don't believe it's subject to the prohibition of the planning code and it's within the building, and as long as it's not designed to be viewable by passers by -- >> that's obviously what's it for. >> it's in a parking garage and meant to get to them and maybe it can be added to. >> i don't think it's covered. >> we recently did have a dialogue with a person who is a entrepreneur and indoor advertising asking that very question and i would say we have to look at -- like scott said and if visible on the public right-of-way and does that constitute a general advertising sign. i think something -- i have seen signs in elevators for instance in embarcadaro center

and that is truly in the interior. i guess that's a question that we're going to have to do some more work on and interpreting with the zoning administrator. >> let's look as we come to the end about historic signs. this is a historic sign and this black smith shop and on howard -- folsom and has the beautiful sign on the side of the building. get a little close up of that. tool, manufacturing, in general black smithing. do we make exceptions for historic signs and what way? >> historic signs are allowed and addressed in the planning code. we do want to preserve that and valuable remembrance of the heritage and we want to preserve this. >> i think what is lovely about

these signs and what they disappear and appear and this is around for a while and when there is a demolition of a building and you frequently find an old sign for a laundry or whatever and also what is interesting and the degree to which the signs and uses disappear and they're named in the buildings in their place and foundry square and lots of metal work and things that went on in that area and they're disappearing in favor of white collar business but the names of the businesses remember them. >> and when a building is reconstructed and taking off the facade and historic sign and any requirement to stop work or are they allowed to punch holes through for windows. i ask and

recently on octavia park and there was a new grill put in and historic sign and i like the restaurant now with the light and the windows but the sign was gone afterwards? >> i am unaware anything in the building code says that you have to stop. maybe the planning code. >> maybe a landmark sign or along those lines but i don't think it's addressed in the planning code to preserve the signs to that extent. >> so the city had a bunch of doggy heads and now have one left. >> it's a landmark. >> it's a landmark dog. >> it's a landmark now. >> on the waterfront we have interesting signs and you can only see from the water really. this is one and pacific far east and the golden bears there and a whole realm. are they being

preserved in anyway? >> no, i think we should discuss that with the port authority and maybe fall under their jurisdiction. >> welcome home. i think this is from operation -- what is the one before operation desert storm. >> (inaudible). >> shield. and another ris toric sign and pier 23 and good jazz and out door eating and this wonderful sign. an old sign representing since 1857 san francisco business. >> predates the planning code. >> they can keep this. the moxie. this is a sign that -- this building through a number of changes. the sign has been there through it all and now an office and they left the sign up. murals -- are they signs? are they regulated in the planning code? >> no. there are allowances and projecting murals but generally

can be considered art and it's something that we definitely want to encourage for that area and people would come and tag my door and i wish i would have a nice mural on it and they would think twice and it's important fabric of the city. >> is there anything in the code that encourages art -- >> part of the planning code has things for art depending on the size of the project and we open everyone would do it on their own and enjoy it. >> this is fantastic. >> i mean one of the interesting things and the mission bay and that obviously the mission is a really rich place to find murals but that a lot of what gets called the mission school in the art world today came out of people who really were very interested and celebrated old signs and cataloged them and

encorporated them into their work and several artists and from their early work went around the mission and sketching the old signs and the hand painting them and doing them in their art work and the relationship between signs and art is close in the mission. >> is there a general rule for regulating signs over businesses and interferes with the residential area above? >> you're not allowed to have signs blocking the windows. >> and the specific requirement says that you can't blocked required windows but you're talking about a big bright light that flaws flashes all the timed keeps people awake. >> it's whether it's eliminated at all or it's on the zoning. >> i think we covered a lot of

ground today and i want to thank you all for coming and thank our guests jeanine and scott and hope you see you all next month thank you very much. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

>> the city of san francisco sfgov tv meeting of the small