tv PBS News Hour PBS May 26, 2011 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT
captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> brown: the supreme court ruled today that arizona can penalize businesses that hire workers in the country illegally. good evening. i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight, marcia coyle walks us through the five to three decision and what it means for the larger state-federal battle over immigration policy. >> brown: then, margaret warner has the latest on the arrest of fugitive bosnian serb general ccused of the worst war crimes in europe since world war two. >> woodruff: health correspondent betty ann bowser reports on the growing role of nurse practitioners as primary caregivers. >> in just a few years, 32 million americans who currently have no health insurance are
going to be able to buy coverage. and the question is, who's going to take care of them? >> brown: we look at the case of arizona shooting suspect jared loughner, after a federal judge ruled him mentally incompetent to stand trial. >> woodruff: and, we continue our collaboration with "the economist" magazine to highlight the art of filmmaking. tonight: tales of life in north korea from those who have escaped the regime. >> brown: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i want to know what the universe... >> looks like. >> feels like. >> from deep space. >> to a microbe. >> i can contribute to the world by pursuing my passion for science. >> it really is the key to the future. >> i want to design... >> a better solar cell. >> i want to know what's really possible. >> i want to be the first to cure cancer. >> people don't really understand why things work. >> i want to be that person that finds out why.
these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: the u.s. supreme court today ruled federal law does not pre-empt an arizona measure that punishes employers who hire illegal immigrants. the split decision was a blow to immigrant advocates, business and civil liberties groups, and the obama administration. under the arizona law, companies caught hiring illegal workers can be stripped of their business licenses. and employers are required to use the otherwise-optional federal verification program known as "e-verify." today's case is separate from another controversial arizona immigration law making its way through the court system. as always, marcia coyle of "the national law journal" walks us through it.
>> thanks,. >> brown: first remind us of the background on the case and the arizona law. >> okay, there is a federal immigration law that preeferm-- preempts or blocks state and local laws that impose civil or criminal sanctions on employers who hire unauthorized aliens, other than through their licensing or similar laws. and keep that phrase in mind, the exception, other than licensing laws. >> brown: okay. >> arizona is one of about eight states that has enacted that type of a licensing law. arizona's law says, essentially, employer, if you hire an unauthorized alien, you may have your licence to do business in our state suspended or even revoked. a second part of this is the federal government has created a program that helps employers determine the status of a worker. e-verify, an on-line program. it's a voluntary program. the difference with arizona,
however, is arizona mandates that its employers use e-verify. in 2007 the chamber of commerce and a number of civil liberties groups challenged the arizona law. it said that the arizona provisions conflict with federal immigration law, federal immigration law preempts the state law. lower federal courts didn't agree. they upheld the state law. the supreme court today upheld it as well. >> brown: all right, so you have a battle of federal and state law, immigration policy, one very much in the air these days. >> absolutely. >> brown: in this case the majority opinion written by chief justice roberts. and he said arizonas was in the bounds, right. >> yes. >> brown: of what federal law allows. >> yes, he did. he said what the federal immigration law expressly reserves to the states the authority to impose these sanctions through licensing laws. and he said arizona chose the path that was least likely to create tension with federal law. it did that one by using the
federal government's own definition of unauthorized alien. by relying solely on the federal government's determination of who is an unauthorized alien and by requiring employers to use the federal government's own program to verify the status of workers. >> brown: and the dissent here was that this was, in fact, encroaching on federal law. >> yes, it was that, as well as other concerns. justice bryero rout a dissent he suggested whether it was a true licensing law but he didn't talk about issuing. and he also was concerned, he said it up set the balance that congress struck in federal immigration law between deterring employers from hiring unauthorized aliens and guarding against discrimination by employers on the basis of ethnicity or race if they wanted to err on the side of not violating
federal immigration law. >> brown: now we should say it was 5-3 because just sis cagen recruised herself. >> she did. she had participated in this case in her prior positions as solicitedder general of the united states. >> brown: in terms of implications here you mentioned there were other states who have gone this route that arizona has gone. so there is some implications there. >> sure. they can feel somewhat confident now that their laws will be all right. it also will encourage other states to experiment with licensing laws. businesses have the concern that they are to you going to face a patchwork of maybe 50 different licensing laws. and what will they do if they run afoul of them. and so civil rights organizations fear that it will exacerbate the problem of discrimination against workers on the basis of ethnicity as employers try not to run afoul of these licensing laws. >> brown: and of course the other big question is that other law and case hanging
out there that i refer to, right, much broader arizona law. so what are the potential implications here? >> well, i'm not sure there are a lot of implications. >> brown: let's explain this. what is similar about it. it is the same federal and state find. >> right, sd-1070 the arizona law is being challenged by the obama administration on preemption grounds, that it does encroach on the responsibility of the federal government to enforce immigration laws. but it is a very different type of law. it's not a licensing law and it raises questions, constitutional issues involving privacy, fourth amendment t empowers or authorized law enforcement officials to stop anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant and checking their status. and it does other things. it was blocked by the lower courts and governor brewer just announced she is going to go directly to the
supreme court to challenge that. >> brown: and the opposition is going to be that that one goes a lot further than the narrow area of today's ruling. >> absolutely. and there are a number of states that have also enacted laws that are very similar to that, particular arizona law. and it's not the only-- i mean there are-- there's a lot of experimentation going on right now around the country in the-- trying to use state laws to enforce immigration. >> brown: well, it's all stemming from the stated frustration, they say that it is all because of the lack of legislation at the federal level, right? >> true, there is a case pending right now in the supreme court that is somewhat different. it is a challenge to a california law that allows unauthorized aliens to attend colleges in california if they meet certain conditions. and then they only have to pay in-state tuition. and that is being challenged in the supreme court is taking a look at whether it wants to hear arguments in that case. >> brown: and thus everybody reading tea leaveses into
today's decision. >> yes. >> brown: all right, marcia coyle, thanks, as always. >> my pleasure, jeff. >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": the arrest of a war crimes fugitive; nurses as primary care providers; a mentally unfit determination for the arizona suspect and tales of escape from north korea. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: the violent weather assault on the midwest finally eased today, but only after another long night. powerful storms did extensive damage in several states late wednesday. at day break, people near bloomington, indiana picked through the wreckage of trailer homes either ripped apart or blown over and 25 miles to the south, near the town of bedford. >> i was sitting here and it actually lifted me out of the tub. honest to god truth. it took me up that high. my body was shaking. it felt like it was going to suck me out of the house. scared me to death. >> sreenivasan: the tornado ripped off walls and roofs and left yards littered with household appliances and utility poles. hail the size of golf balls did
even more damage and some walls still standing were riddled with holes. more tornadoes ripped through missouri as well. one storm-- at least a half- mile-wide-- ravaged trees, smashed homes and crumpled a trailer park. >> one of our trailers is, i guess, is up at the truck stop. somebody was telling us. >> sreenivasan: meanwhile, in joplin, missouri... some people were pulling up stakes, four days after the deadliest single tornado on record. >> i don't know where we'll end up, but won't be here. i have been to hell and back and don't want to go back. >> sreenivasan: at least 125 people were killed in joplin, but authorities lowered the tally of missing today, from 1,500 down to 232. >> we need people to call in and help us locate those individuals. that 232 are reports that are made by family members and our goal is to get that to zero. >> sreenivasan: elsewhere, images from a news helicopter captured the fierce power of tuesday's storms in oklahoma. they showed a twister that chased down, then ripped apart a tractor trailer on an interstate
near shawnee. the driver miraculously escaped with minor injuries. >> i closed my eyes, pulled my hands over my face. i felt bouncing around in the cab. somehow or another i'm pretty sure i went out the passenger side of the cab. >> sreenivasan: but oklahoma's death toll was raised today to ten, after authorities found the body of a three-year-old boy. his brother had also been killed. in all, 506 people have been killed in tornadoes across the u.s. this spring, just short of the record set in 1953. seven american troops were killed by a roadside bomb in afghanistan today. an eighth nato soldier, and two afghan policemen also died. the attack in kandahar province was the worst single taliban bombing against nato forces since 2009. the news came as the u.s. house narrowly refused to speed up the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. the vote was 215 to 204. the pull-out is to begin in july, and end by 2014. in iraq, thousands of supporters of shi-ite cleric muqtada al- sadr rallied in baghdad against letting u.s. troops stay past
the end of this year. the marchers waved flags and stomped across u.s. flags painted on the pavement. al-sadr did not appear, but the u.s. military estimated 20,000 protesters took part. the remaining 46,000 u.s. troops are due to leave by december 31. but, some iraqi leaders have talked of having them stay longer. pakistan has been hit with another major attack. a suicide bombing in the northwest killed at least 32 people today. the bomber set off a pickup truck packed with explosives near government offices in the city of hangu. more than 50 people were wounded. the pakistani taliban claimed responsibility. intense fighting spread across more of yemen's capital city today. at least 28 people were killed as tribal militias battled troops loyal to president ali abdullah saleh. more than 100 have died since monday, and the militias today warned saleh to step down or face civil war. speaking in paris, u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton said again, saleh must go. >> we continue to support the departure of president saleh who
has consistently agreed that he would be stepping down from power and then consistently reneged on those agreements, turning his back on commitments that he made and disregarding the legitimate aspirations of the yemeni people. >> sreenivasan: the u.s. and britain also ordered non- essential diplomats and their families to leave yemen. tensions over the bombing of libya dominated the agenda, as world economic powers gathered in deauville, france. president obama and seven other leaders discussed the nato campaign in libya, something russia has opposed. but french president nicolas sarkozy insisted again that moammar qaddafi cannot remain in power. >> we're not saying that qaddafi has to go into exile. that's not our problem. we're saying that a man who's used artillery and aviation to shoot at innocent and unarmed
people after 40 years of dictatorship cannot stay in power. >> sreenivasan: also today, spain reported a message from the libyan government, calling for an immediate cease-fire. the u.s. quickly dismissed the offer. the mexican army has found 29 >> they planned to follow suit. the extension covers the next four years and includes roving wiretaps, surveillance of so-called lone wolf suspects and searches of business records. the anti-terror laws was enacted after the 9/11 attacks. the mexican army the mexican army has found 29 bodies amid rising drug violence along the country's pacific coast. the victims were killed wednesday in a battle between rival gangs. they were found dressed in fake military uniforms, along with a caravan of trucks and s.u.v.s that were riddled with bullets. also today, officials in a nearby state reported more than 700 people have fled to shelters, to escape the violence. the u.s. economy is showing new signs of a sluggish recovery. government reports today said
first-quarter growth was relatively weak and claims for unemployment benefits rose for the first time in three weeks. wall street managed modest gains despite the economic news. the dow jones industrial average gained eight points to close at 12,402. the nasdaq rose 21 points to close near 2,783. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to judy. >> woodruff: a long-awaited war crimes arrest in the former yugoslavia. we start with a report from jonathan rugman of "independent television news." >> reporter: he was europe's most wanted man, accused of the worst massacres on the continent since the nazis, but general ratko mladic is in custody in the serbian capital tonight, facing justice after more than 15 years on the run. and with serbia long accused of deliberately failing to find him, the country's president leapt at the chance to prove his critics wrong. >> ( translated ): on behalf of the republic of serbia we
announce that today, we arrested ratko mladic. extradition process is underway. today, we close one chapter of our recent history that will bring us one step closer to full reconciliation in the region. >> reporter: it was in this northern farmhouse-- his cousin's home-- where the bosnian serb general was arrested. the area is home to many serb refugees who may have been protecting him. local media claimed he'd been under surveillance for months. three years ago mladic's political boss radavan karadic was arrested on belgrade. he'd grown a beard and was posing as a therapist but he's now on trial for war crimes at the hague. as was slobodon milosovic-- the serbian president-- until he died in his cell five years ago. mladic the third of the balkans most wanted cut a macho figure-- a hero to the serb nationalist
cause, but widely held responsible for slaughtering bosnian muslim civilians. he led the siege of the bosnian capital sarajevo in which more than 10,000 were killed. but it was srebrenica in 1995 that mladic guaranteed his place in may. "you've nothing to worry about," the general told muslim refugees seeking protection from the u.n. then he ordered the women to be separated while men and boys were led away to their execution. almost 8,000 were systematically shot. and those who lost husbands brothers and sons today hoped that their wait for justice was finally over. >> ( translated ): they took my son and husband and brothers and many other relatives and many other friends and neighbors of mine. and all these years mladic was at large enjoying life.
>> reporter: this was mladic giving orders in the bosnian war, then gradually disappeared. only to resurface in this footage apparently shot in 2009. it showed him enjoying himself quite openly, despite being wanted for genocide. he reportedly wasn't wearing a disguise when he was arrested this morning and back in 2009 e.u. leaders were infuriated by these pictures of him frolicking in the snow. his arrest today welcomed by the e.u.'s foreign policy chief who, coincidence or otherwise, was visiting belgrade. >> it's of course a very mladic is 68 now. and has been living under the pseudonym milorad komagic. it's not known whether the $19 million reward on offer led to his arrest. >> woodruff: margaret warner takes the story from there. >> warner: for more on the significance of today's arrest we turn to stephen rapp, u.s. ambassador-at-large for war crimes issues.
he previously served as a lead prosecutor in u.n. sponsored war crimes trials for the african nations of rwanda and sierra leone. and emma daly, who covered the wars in the former yugoslavia for the british newspaper, "the independent." she's now communications director at human rights watch. ambassador rapp, you've been to serbia five times in the last 15 months. what new can you add to the circumstances of this capture? >> well, it is the serbian operation. they were maintaining surveillance over the extended family. we've been in touch with them. we've been providing them with advice and assistance with the fbi. they've been meeting with us regularly to inform us on their progression which is important. because our assistance to serbia depends upon that full cooperation. but this was a situation of maintaining surveillance and finally getting the signal that this is where we are and being able to move in o it. >> warner: are you saying the fbi was actively
assisting the investigation? >> the fbi made two visits to serbia and to provide advice. our federal bureau of investigations actively involved in chasing down fugitives both on federal and state warrants. and could provide some technical assistance and advice about how to do that. that wasn't operational, however, that is just an example of what we've done to try to make this happen. >> warner: i want to get back to that, let me bring in emma daly. remind us about mladic and how critical a figure was he in this top triumphant. ic, karadzic and himself. >> i think he really personified the b brutality of the war. he was a brilliant strategist, in many ways. the architect of the siege of certificate yeaho. cleansing of villages across the country and most famously or infamously the
pass acker at srebrenica. he was really to some in the serbian national circumstancem-- circles he was really a folk hero. and he just espoused this very strong sense of-- he was trying to ache revenge in a way for what he saw as abuses against the serb people in the past. >> warner: and so how significant would you say today's arrest is? and maybe finally, beginning to close the chapter on this whole horrible event? >> i think it's extremely important. i mean his arrest is absolutely crucial. i think it's extremely important not just for his victims in bosnia of whom there are many, i think that they will probably feel a great sense of relief that the relatives of those who died in the war will finally get a day in court. i think it also has a wider significance in that it sends a message to those people who were engaged in
potential atrocities right now in other countries around the world. >> warner: ambassador rapp going back to the circumstances leading up to this, how did he individual capture for 16 years. we saw those videos, him at a wedding, that famous one of him out skiing or walking in the snow. was the serb government protecting him? >> well, i can say since i've been in this post and working closely with the government, and the president, they digging in and seeking his arrest. and i think turning over every stone to make it happen. i think prior to that time there were situations where there wasn't a diligent effort to find him, even a time when he was drawing a military pension. but in the course of the last two years or more, there has been an effort. and i think it's a reflection of the fact that this government and the people have decided to turn this page and to move forward in europe. it's also because of the conditions that countries
have placed on the admission of serbia, to the family of nations. particularly by the eu. i mean this is the most important single thing for the success of the icty has been the conditionality, where for countries to move forward, to candidate status, they had to-- there had to be full and complete cooperation with the prosecutor. and the willingness of countries to stand behind that conditionality. >> warner: and emma daly was there not always the threat of a negative report about to come out about the serbs from the-- was it from the prosecutor at the hague? >> yes, he was due to address the u.n. security council in early june. and he was expected to report that serbia had notully n the arrest of general mladic. and that could have had negative effects on serbia's pursuit of the eu membership. >> warner: and ms. daly, take us back now and remind us the importance of the
srebrenica, the fall of srebrenica which the u.n. has vowed to protect and then this horrible massacre in which 8,000 men and boys were discovered to have been just cold bloodedly killed. it has been called a turning point, an historical turning point in the bosnian war. was it in your view, covering on the ground? and if so, in what way? >> yes, i think it was really a critical importance. you know, mladic showed such contempt for the u.n.. the u.n. had tried to issue various warnings. thises was supposed to be a safe area. the peacekeepers were supposed to be protecting the 30,000-- 30,000 muslim civilians within the enclave and yet mill add-- mladic was able to roll in and take the peacekeepers hostage. he then rounded up the women and children,. a lot of the men were trying to escape. there were these sort of chilling scenes at the time of mladic going as the report said earlier, and promising people safety. you know, handing out candy to the children.
and then it took some time for us really to know what had happened. the women and children were bused to government-held areas. no one really knew what had happened to the men. but at least 8,000 men and boys were missing. and gradually a few survivors started to show up and tell stories of mass executions, mass graves, just wanton killing. and i think that that-- sorry-- . >> warner: was both the fall of srebrenica and then later the discovery of these bodies, was that a turning point for the u.n. in realizing it was going to have to use more muscle? >> and i think especially, i think also for the u.s., we also have to remember that there were other things happening in the war front. the croatian army, for instance, was pursuing the serbs. i think there was a sense, you know, that theres was-- that somethings was going to happen, that there was an end game approaching which i think is why mladic wanted to take the enclave in the first place. and i think it really helped
to sort of stiffen the spine and make people realize thatthid to do something. they had to act. and nato began its bombing cacampaign against bosnia and serb military targets. and the croatian military push also helped to, you know, bring the serbs, the bosnian serbs to the position where they actually had to go to the negotiation stage. >> warner: let me get back total was door quickly before we have to end. meanwhile these other high profile trials at the hague have not gone swimmingly. i mean milosevic used it as sort of to grandstand for five years. and then died in jail. before it was over, karadzic it has been three years and he is still in trial. is anything going to make this proceed more expeditiously and more business like way than those? >> well, i think the international courts have learned less ons on-- lessons on how to do these cases. however when yous prosecute people at a very high level that have been involved in massive criminal acts, and
when you provide them with a defense to challenge every part of it, you can expect a long trial. but the karadzic case just began last year and is moving forward to a conclusion. this case will begin. we've got the ability of th the-- fortunately this happened before the icty closed. and i think we'll see justice here. >> warner: that's the tribunal for yugoslav. >> the yugoslavian tribunal. the lesson here also is that after these crimes, where the u.n. didn't do what provides a sort of robust peacekeeping forces that could have protected people, the solution, one of the solutions was to provide for international justice. and now we're seeing this finally happen. and it shows that it may take a long time. but these people are brought to justice. it's not a question of if. it's a question of when. and as emma said, it's a signal to others in the world who would commit these same atrocity as that there will be justice for the victims. >> warner: ambassador stephen rapp and emma daly, thank you both.
>> brown: next, what to do about the growing need for primary care providers. "newshour" health correspondent betty ann bowser reports from philadelphia on one potential solution to the shortage. >> hi, ms. etienne. >> hi, miss nellie, how are you doing today? >> good! it's good to see you! >> reporter: lazar sees more than a dozen patients. she sometimes works day and night. >> i i'm able to take calls in e middle of the night and help them talk through what's going on with them and help keep little babies out of the emergency room who just have a fever or ear infection. >> reporter: but lazar is not a doctor. instead, the rising sun health clinic is run by lazar and one other nurse practitioner. >> we diagnose, we treat, we manage chronic health conditions but also there is a strong
emphasis on health promotion as well as disease prevention. >> reporter: lazar is part of a nationwide trend. in the last four decades, the number of nurse practitioners has risen to more than 140,000. and more and more are working on their own, especially in poor inner city neighborhoods and rural areas, where there are few doctors in private practice. the scope of what nurses can do medically has also been growing for the past decade, at a time when the pool of primary care or family doctors has been shrinking and now the need for professionals to do basic family medicine has never been greater. in 2014, when key provisions of the federal health care reform law kicks in, it's estimated 32 million americans who currently have no health insurance will be able to buy coverage. and the experts tell us it's going to make the shortage of primary care physicians worse. >> reporter: tine hansen turton is director of a trade
association that represents nurse managed health clinics. >> the challenge in this country is that right now we have an estimated shortage according to the american medical association of about 91,000 physicians half of them would be primary care physicians so we see the nurse practitioners playing a stronger role in the partnership with physicians around the country. >> reporter: when the nurse- managed 11th street family health services center was started 15 years ago by drexel university the neighborhood was a medical wasteland. patty gerrity saw a pressing need. >> there was one physician in the neighborhood and he was known for giving you what you wanted, meaning people went to him for pain killers and drugs and we found that most of the patients went from emergency room to emergency room. they didn't have one continuous source of primary care. >> reporter: gerrity's clinic is considered a good example of successful nurse-managed care,
because the program focuses on the whole patient and uses healthcare workers from across different disciplines. the clinic offers physical fitness instruction, yoga classes, dental services and cooking classes to teach patients how to eat right. >> when you want to add more flavor, you can add red pepper flakes and curry powder to our recipe, they won't add calories. >> reporter: there isn't much disagreement over expanding the scope of practice of nurse practitioners these days. the controversy starts when the conversation turns to just how much more of a role is appropriate. here at the university of pennsylvania school of nursing, associate dean eileen sullivan marx says nurses are capable of doing a lot more primary care than they've been allowed to do in the past. >> everyone wants their private doctor, their general practitioner, the dr. wellby if
you will. and what i'm saying is that nurse practitioners are the dr. wellby's of today. nurse practitioners cost less to prepare for society, doesn't cost as much for medical school it takes one to two years following a bachelor's degree. and nurse practitioners salary simply aren't as costly as a physicians salaries. >> reporter: some physician groups do not want to see nurse practitioners take over the job of the family doctor. the american medical association in a written statement said, "physicians have more years of preparation than nurses. there is no substitute for education and training" and doctors are "vital to optimal patient care especially in the event of a complication." the american academy of family physicians led by dr. roland goertz doesn't see nurses taking over the role of a primary care physician either. >> you wake up tomorrow and you feel awful.
i think that patient, for the best care possible for that patient to receive, is to go to a setting-- a practice-- that has all the team members available, including the team members with the maximum training. >> reporter: nurse practitioner maria irrera-newcomb, who works at the 11th street clinic, says she's had more than enough training with two to three years of postgraduate work to do basic primary care. she rejects the notion that people like her are trying to take over the job of the family doctor. >> there is definitely there are patients that as they get very, very complicated that as a nurse practitioner you find that okay, well, now i need a little bit more help, a little bit more, this is a little bit more difficult management, more internal medicine and then we refer patients as needed. >> reporter: not only is there disagreement over the scope of practice, there is a confusing patchwork quilt of state regulations governing what
nurses can do. 17 states and the district of columbia allow them to treat ependently. the rest require a doctor's involvement in the treatment process. and just training more people to work as nurse practitioners has it's own set of problems. in 2008, an estimated 30,000 qualified applicants were turned away from schools that educate nurses. dr. john rowe co-authored a recent report on the future of nurses for the institutes of medicine. >> there just aren't enough seats in the schools, there aren't enough nursing schools, the schools aren't large enough, they don't have enough clinical rotations with hospitals to get their clinical experience and very importantly there aren't enough faculty. there aren't enough nurses with doctoral level degrees who can teach. >> reporter: colleges and untrain nurses are looking for ways to expand
their programs and the new federal health care reform law supports those efforts, but in the end it will be up to the states to write the rules which govern what nurse practitioners can do. >> woodruff: according to a federal judge, the man accused in the shooting massacre in tucson, arizona earlier this year is not mentally fit to stand trial. it will be at least four months before jared loughner-- accused in the tucson, arizona shooting rampage-- sees the inside of a courtroom again. the january 8 attack killed six people and wounded congresswoman gabrielle giffords and 12 others. but on wednesday, u.s. district judge larry burns ruled loughner is mentally incompetent to stand trial. the judge ordered loughner to a federal facility in springfield, missouri.
there, psychiatrists will attempt to treat the 22-year-old suspect so he can understand the case against him. one of the shooting victims-- eric fuller-- was in court, and agreed with the decision. >> the mere appearance of him is very disheveled, he was very disorganized. you don't have to be a professional psychiatrist to know that the boy is disturbed. >> woodruff: the judge ruled after medical experts reported that loughner suffers from schizophrenia and delusions. mhd been in decline for two or three years. the finding matched first-hand accounts from acquaintances who knew loughner, and spoke just after the shootings. >> jared was not your normal student. he was mentally unstable. >> i'd see jared walking down the street, you know, head down. but no, never any words, never any gestures.
nothing. not a single one. i would call him depressed. >> woodruff: in fact, loughner's mental state was on display wednesday, as he grew visibly agitated and interrupted the hearing with screams and a oseriesf outbursts.ri at one point, he said something that sounded like, "she died in front of me"-- a possible reference to giffffords that stunned those in the courtroom. >> surprised. it was a first. unexpected. it is most rare for anyone to interrupt a federal judge in court, particularly when he is reading a ruling. >> woodruff: federal marshals took loughner out of the courtroom, and he opted to watch the rest of the proceedings on television. a hearing to revisit his mental capacity is set for september. and now, for a closer look at yesterday's decision and what it could mean going forward, we turn to laurie levenson, professor of criminal law at loyola law school and a former federal prosecutor.
laurie levenson, thank you for being with us again. first -- >> my pleasure. >> woodruff: what does it mean that a defendant is found incompetent to stand trial? and explain the difference between that and the insanity defense. >> well, incompetence is very different from insanity. insanity is looking at his mental state at the time of the crimement but incompetence really means does he understand the proceedings at the time of trial and can he participate and help in his defense. we've had two psychologists here for the prosecution and the defense say you know what, he doesn't have that mental capacity to even understand the proceedings at this point. maybe he will in the future, but he's not ready now. >> woodruff: what has to happen for this finding to take place? are there a set of criteria, that apply in the federal court? >> well, the judge will look at the case law, there has been a lot of case law in this area. the judge has to determine
basically and it's often on the expert's testimony whether jared loughner really understands was's going on in the courtroom. and even if he does, whether he can engage and participate and help his defense lawyer. otherwise, a trial would just be a spectacle whereas we heard, he would be screaming out it wouldn't really be a presentation of the evidence. and it's important in a trial that he be able to exercise his rights. and if he's competent he can't even do that. >> so does this give the mental health professionals an extraordinary amount of influence? the process? >> yeah thises was one of those intersections between the law and the mental health experts. the mental health experts have a tremendous impact on the judges decision. because they'll go through the history of loughner, his behavior day-by-day and give the judge an idea confi what's really going on in loughner's head. the judge is a smart man. but he doesn't have the training in this area. ultimately, however, the decision of competence is not the doctors. it is the judge.
>> so laurie levenson what are the next steps then for jared loughner? they said he's going to be treated in missouri, what happen >> well, he'll go back to missouri and be treated at springfield at the prison hospital there. and they'll try to literally make him competent to come back and stand trial. a big issue is whether he will be medicated forcibly if he doesn't want to be. and there's some case law that says in a case where you have these serious types of charges, the judge could order that. but that hasn't been determined yet. what kind of treatment, whether medication could be used to treat him and make him competent. if they can do so, they'll come back and stand trial. and if they can't, actually the criminal case gets dismissed and he'll be civilly committed. >> so just to back up for a second, the judge decides, if a decision had to be made about whether to forcely-- forcibly medicate loughner, is that a decision that goes back to the judge? >> it goes back to the judge. but with all the input of the medical officials. frankly the judges defer to
what the likelihood is that this medication will actually work, what kind of medication it is, what are the downsides and risks. the judge has to look at a series of factors from two supreme court cases to decide whether to do this. >> so then he's treated and as you said, if they feel, if they decide based on the treatment that he is competent to stand trial, the trial will go forward. but what if they feel the treatment is not successful? >> well, if the treatment is not successful, we don't have a criminal trial. and that's because we want to make sure the defendant understands that, you know, this is a moral decision of whether he should be held culpable for this crime. so instead we go over to another system where he's committed. in other words, he's to the going to be walking the streets. he's not going to be in any more parking lots. he will either end pup in prison if he is convicted on the criminal side or being civilly committed and putting in a mental hospital. >> woodruff: and at this point what is the role of the prosecution in the case?
>> the role of the prosecution is to do what they've done so far which is to give the judge the information he needs to make these decisions. having their experts weigh in on the decision, i think the prosecutors will be watching this carefully. they want to go to trial if they can. but they understand that some of this is out of their hands. and the other thing they have to do is prepare for the trial itself. because even if loughner is found to be competent, you can bet at the time of trial he's going to argue something like a diminished capacity or an insanity defense, that he couldn't have the mental thought that he needed to be guilty of the highest level of crimes. >> woodruff: does the prosecution play a role in determining whether i is ultimately found competent to stand trial? >> only so much as the prosecutor can come in and argue to the judge that, in fact, he is competent, you should believe our expert, not theirs. medication should be used. maybe he's playing a game. but in most situations,
prosecutors if they believe the psychologist, will defer to them and that is what has a major impact onn the judge. >> woodruff: and finally, what is the history of cases like this when defendants have been found initially incompetent to stand trial? >> it's hard to say. i mean i think a lot of people envision that so many defendants get off on insanity defences or that they're incompetent. and that's really not the case. people who are incompetent, it's an extreme decision by the judge. the judges are reluctant to find that. you have to be pretty far gone. and in those rare cases, the question is can the medical professionals make him competent for trial. very much.: laurie levenson, >> my pleasure. >> brown: finally tonight, tales of escape from north korea. it's from our occasional series: "the economist film project." showcasing independently- produced documentaries that bring us things we don't
ordinarily see. the films are chosen jointly by the "newshour" and "the economist" magazine. here's an excerpt from "kimjongilia" by film-maker n.c. heikin. she took an artistic approach to illustrating some harrowing stories. >> north korean propaganda films paint a blissful picture of life under kim jong il. but those we met who'd escaped from north korea in the last decade paint a very different picture. kang chol hwan remembers a happy childhood. >> ( translated ): my childhood was happy. i had five or six aquariums with all kinds of fish. we kids all competed to see who had the best fish. >> then everything changed. his grandfather was arrested for an unnamed crime.
north korean practice is to purge three generations. ang, his grandmother, father, uncle, and little sister were taken to yodok prison camp. kang screamed so much the soldiers let him take one of his beloved aquariums. he was nine years old. >> ( translated ): the iron gates opened. the soldiers were armed. i began to feel real fear. everyone was so skinny. the children were so weak and fragile. they were in rags. at first, i dried bugs for my fish. that's how i fed them. but when i started forced labor, i didn't have time for them. i had no time to cry. every day was so tiring. we worked so hard.
i was so cold. you don't care about your pet fish when you're dying. >> ( translated ): we never knew when we'd get beaten. there was constant fear. >> shin dong-hyuk was born in total control prison camp number 14. he never knew why his parents were there. >> ( translated ): a guy from pyongyang came to the camp. he told me what hisbeen like. his life in pyongyang. the best stories were about eating. after i heard his stories, the camp became totally unbearable. i came up with the idea of escaping. i knew we could get shot or electrocuted. all of a sudden, i was afraid.
and then my friend said, "i don't think we can do it." but i couldn't give up. i had to escape. i practically dragged him. and then, i slipped in the snow, so he ran ahead of me. when i saw the wired gates, i figured he was squeezing through the electric wires. so i followed his lead and squeezed through, too. when i got up and looked behind me, i realized i was on the other side of the gates! then i saw my friend was stuck and didn't move. he was still stuck in the wires. if i hadn't fallen, i would have been the first to squeeze through the electric wire. i would have been the one electrocuted.
>> there are an estimated 300,000 prisoners in the camps today. but even outside the camps life is difficult. there are fears that food shortages could get as bad as they were in the mid-'90s when byeon ok-soon was growing up. >> ( translated ): because of the great famine in 1994, we were having a very hard time. we'd go to the mountains to pick roots. we ate grass from the fields and bark from the trees. >> byeon ok-sun lived with her parents, three brothers, and sister in a northern town. the only source of food was the state-run distribution system. by the time she was 17, that system had collapsed. >> ( translated ): one day, i was with my father in the mountains. i got soaked with rain while we were foraging.
after we finished, i went home. my body started to burn and i fainted. we had nothing to eat and we certainly couldn't buy medicine. so they laid me to one side, waiting for me to die. i had typhoid fever and was in a coma. >> ok-soon woke up from her coma in china. her brother had carried her on his back across the tumen river. he left her in the care of an old woman while he looked for work to pay for her medical treatment. as the oldest brother, it was his duty to care for his parents and siblings. he took hisy. >> after he saved me in china, with our parents back in north korea, my brother felt very tortured. he'd get food and take it back to our parents. he was constantly sneaking back and forth.
when he realized the north korean authorities were on to him, he decided to give himself up. if you give yourself up, you expect to receive a lighter sentence. that's what he thought. instead, he was taken and publicly executed. >> ( translated ): the military suffered, too. the state only supplied us with rice and salt. we had to get everything else ourselves. >> park myung-ho was a captain in the korean people's army. he served for 20 years. his father was a soldier, too. >> ( translated ): these days, many officers desert. even if you want to work, there are always supplies missing, making it impossible to do the
job. but commanders go on issuing orders every day. you have to steal the supplies you need. this is the current situation in north korea. if you care at all, it is impossible not to express your frustration. consequently, many are arrested. that's what drove me to escape. we decided to cross the 38th parallel by boat. we evaded navy ships twice, because our boat was small and theirs were big. we could see them first and get away. actually, the north korean ships had no fuel. they couldn't start their engines and were under sail. when i saw all the trees on the mountains, i knew we were in south korea.
>> tom: i know it's the country of my birth, but i really hate it. >> she and the other escapees now live in south korea. >> ( translated ): i don't want to live there ever again. >> brown: there's more from filmmaker n.c. heiken on our website. and you can learn about the project or submit your film at film.economist.com. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day: the u.s. supreme court upheld arizona's legal right to penalize businesses that hire illegal immigrants. violent weather assaulting the midwest finally eased, after new tornadoes did extensive damage in several states overnight. eight nato troops, including seven americans, were killed by a roadside bombing in afghanistan. and bosnian serb general ratko mladic was arrested in serbia. he's accused in the massacre of 8,000 muslims and other war crimes in the 1990s. and to hari sreenivasan for what's on the "newshour" online.
hari? >> sreenivasan: on our health page, find more on the burgeoning field of nurse- managed health care, including a profile of one such clinic in colorado. and the use of a dog in the u.s. raid on the bin laden compound brought new attention to the use of canines in the military, we visit dog handlers at the marine corps base in quantico, virginia, to get a first hand look at the training. plus on art beat, the blind boys of alabama blend gospel and country music on their latest album. all that and more is on our web site: newshour.pbs.org. >> brown: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodsruff. wll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks, among others. thank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> oil companies have changed my country. >> oil companies can make a difference.
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