tv Charlie Rose PBS November 24, 2011 11:30pm-12:40am EST
interviewer: anthony, i know you spent a lot of time researching artificial limbs and being an amputee for this part. how difficult was it to portray someone with an artificial leg convincingly? anthony: i think for someone like milner it was very important, especially doing the job that he was doing, to to have that ability, to have the sense of freedom and the sense that life goes on and life is normal. so trying to combine those two, the reality of the physical constraint and the emotional life, i suppose. interviewer: so what was it like for the both of you to work with the great michael kitchen? anthony: great! honeysuckle: breathtaking really. because he kind of does it with such ease. it looks, you know, it looks so easy... when he does it. he's always ready with the performance, kind of just comes and you watch him at the time and you think "gosh that was very laid back" and then you see it on the screen and it's sort of perfect performance and it's sort of quite, i mean it's fascinating really i want to wat- i
decided i'm going to watch him, watch his every move, pick up some hints and tips. and how to be real. and at the same time give it, gravitise what your saying, you know. grity, which obviously comes from him, but then he transfers to foyle. it's very interesting to see obviously when we're working with him on set to see how that transfers onto the screen. honeysuckle: mmm. it's amazing anthony: yeah, it's sort of a privilege too... interviewer: talking of amazing, the scripts are pretty amazing as well. um, they are very historically accurate but they deal with many issues that are totally contemporary like anti-semitism, trouble, problems with refugees. do you think this has added to the success of the series?
honeysuckle: yeah, definitely. because i think it has a piece in it for, it's some sort of cross section of life at that time. you don't only, it's not only about people living in some, although you might think it is, in some sort of posh manner, in some well to do area of a beautiful part of the country. you also get, you know, people of the working class, classes, you know, and how their lives are effected by it. people in all kinds of walks of life, you know, young children, evacuees, you know in the last series. i think i-i-it kind of, i-i-it makes it a very rich kind of tapestry of how it actually was, what it was like to live in those times and the kind of feel and the flavor of it. anthony: and the sort of universal issues. you know, racism,anti-semitism,xenophobia honeysuckle: and the idea of community or exportation and stuff. anthony: yeah! honeysuckle: and you have the feel of people were kind of willing to talk to people like
police detectives because they, you know, people seem to have kind of a great sense of responsibility or something and i think that comes across sometimes in the script. anthony: yeah, you feel 'tis, um, sort of an era of int-- well you feel that there is amongst all this evil there is an immense amount of integrity. and that people say that it brings out the best in a country. conflict. um, obviously it's a terrible thing, but i think you do see the measure of how kind man can be as well as, obviously, how destructive. interviewer: so what do you feel is the most important aspect of foyle's war? that it has a nostalgic period setting in which to deal with crimes and murders or that it is an intelligent police series that just happens to be set in world war ii? anthony: well it's a very specific period. it's a period drama, but its not just a period, you know t-t-the nostalgia, the strength of the nostalgia
comes from fact that its the world war, the second world war. um, so that is absolutely intrinsic and adherent t-t-to the series. honeysuckle: i think another important thing to say this that because the second world war was going on and there were people being killed all the time this is something that is repeated and reiterated in the series, why should it be important that foyle does his job to solve murders when there are people dying everywhere? i think that is an important ethical issue that is raised by the series and i think if it wasn't set in the second world war that wouldn't have quite such, punch. so yes, i think that it's important that it's in that time. interviewer: as the series has progressed both of your characters have matured and developed, is the fact that your characters have room to grow important to you as actors?
honeysuckle: yes if you have to do it for more than a couple of years. anthony: yeah, because you... as you learn things, perhaps as you read around an episode that involves your character in a particular aspect of the second world war, you grow as an individual. or you sort of develop and then as the character sort of experiences things in that aspect, he or she grows and develops. um, so i think, as honeysuckle said, in a long running series there is a need for the characters to adjust and adapt and change and take on board what's happened. you know... honeysuckle: because they might have had their houses bombed, their wives have left them, you know, i mean of course they are going to change. anthony: as you do in life, these things happen and you know, i've changed in the last 3 years, i'm sure you have.
honeysuckle: i hope i have interviewer: finally honeysuckle, if christopher foyle acts a surrogate father figure to your character sam in the series, then in what roll or capacity do you think of anthony's character paul? honeysuckle: um, well i was discussing this with anthony, and i think it's sort of a sibling thing it's it? i mean older brother who i look up to and respect because he's doing the real business, you know. he's actually investigating the murders, he's the one with the brain and i think i just, you know, very grateful to have his support and he does support sam and he is always there for her. backs her up and is ready to defend her to foyle and to, you know, when she's perhaps got the wrong end of the stick of what the job entails and stuff. and i think it makes it a very important part that they have a strong relationship. and, um, i'm not sure if it's going to be romantic or not. i think at the moment it's a sibling thing.
interviewer: you obviously agree anthony, you think that your character sees sam as a sister? anthony: yeah, yeah honeysuckle: we have a brief flirtation don't we? anthony: yeah we do... yeah there is a lovely scene in the first episode of this one. honeysuckle: but i think that's just the joy of the moment, you know, why not... dance... meal. it's bound to happen isn't it? anthony: yeah and i think milner at that stage has gotten used to living away from his wife and he gets on very well with sam, you know, he's very, i think he's very protective of her. he sees her vulnerability, her house has just been bombed so of course he's going to, um, take care of her. you know, he sees in terms of the job that she's passionate about it and that she's inquisitive and, um, honeysuckle: enthusiastic! anthony: yeah... very enthusiastic. and you know, she's a breath of fresh air.
it's not, some of the police work is quite dull, and i think it's great to have sam's character around because some of the conversations they have are just delightful. i think he enjoys, definitely enjoys having her around. interviewer: it's been delightful talking to you honeysuckle and anthony. thank you very much.
>> rose: welcome to our program and happy thanksgiving. we begin this evening with the movies and movie stars with "my week with marin" michelle williams, ken branagh and director simon curtis. >> find myself thinking i know her, i know marilyn. somehow the world kind of thinks it does and i don'tknow you... immediately you want to go on the journey with her and just when you are seeing sort of a beautiful woman who somehow is opening r heart to you you're reminded she's so sexy! >> rose: fm marilyn monroe to diane keaton, we talk about her life and her movies. >> well, i really regret that i didn't say to my mother many things that i wish i had that
i'd said to her to her face. >> rose: tell me now what you would say to her? >> i would say too her if i told you how much i loved you would you feel better about who you are? that's something i want to say to her. >> rose: because sheidn't become what she could have become. >> this is true. she did not become what she could have become. but mainly... not that. she didn feel good about who she was. >> rose: ken branagh, michelle williams, simon curtis and diane keaton when we continue. we allll roofor.who ats s the ds l acacrossmeririca.p@t@@@btsta ,
evertimeme a ststis b burneor t mididnighol hen aethl@e chasd@t@ @dl@@ for r a re herero, iyou u wannrt pporort sml bubusine. captioning sponsored by rose communitions from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: mare lib monroe is a figure who has fascinated holly with wood for years. in 1956 she went to england to shoot "the prince and the show girl" 23-year-old colin clark was a production assistant on
the set. he wrote two memoirs about the production. in one he chronicles the one week he spent alone with the world's biggest movie star marilyn monroe. his story is a new movie. it's called "my week with marilyn." here's the trailer. >> gentlemen,it is my special pleasure to introduce a woman who clearly needs know introduction. a very great actress on her first trip to london. >> marilyn, is it true you wear nothing in beder be perfume. >> darling, as i'm in england let's say i sleep in nhing but yardley's lander. (laughter) >> i lon to see her. >> this story described a miracle. >> marilyn is not ready. >> excuse me. >> a few days of my life when a dream came true. >> were you fritened of me, colin? >> no. >> good, because i like you. >> colin, is everything okay? >> miss monroe had large packages she need me to liver.
>> what are you doing with my assistant. >> good-bye! >> i have something in my eye. >> be careful not to get in too deep, son. >> marilyn monroe fancying you? come on. >> she breaks hearts, she will break yours. >> i wouldn't try the little girl lost act if i were you. everybody knows exactly what she's doing. >> all people ever s is marilyn monroe. >> what must it be like to be the most fous woman on earth? >> you could quit this. forget marilyn monroe. forget hollywood. let it all gos. >> such sweet december pashgs colin.
>> rose: (laughs) joining me now the director simon curtis, two of the stars, ken branagh and michelle williams. i'm pleased to have them... you're watching that trailer saying what? >> i don't know if i've seen it before. >> rose: there was a certain emotion. you were reacting to it as well >> yeah, it's very... she does such a wonderful job and it's so touching, so touching what this man has brought out of the story. it's weirdly... i find myself thinking oh, i know her. i know marilyn somehow... and somehow the world kind of thinks it does and i don't know. you... immediately you want to go on the journey with her and then just when you are seeing a beautiful woman who somehow is opening her heart to you you're also reminded that she's so sexy! (laughter) >> rose: exactly. so tell us the story. there were two books and the one you decided to do came about
because he went back and wrote about that week which he'd let out of the first. >> the truth is ifell in love with both books which... the first one, "the prince, the show girl and me" was his overall account of his first job when he was the third assistant director on "the prince and the show girl." >> rose: in title onl >> and then the second book he published five years later and i just fell in love with them both. it's really an account of a young man with a passion to work in films. he got the golden ticket to work on this fantastic film. >> rose: with these extraordinary people. but you took "a week" because this is not a bioic,his is a look at a human being. >> it's not a bio pic. it's a ment in time where we get a very close portrait of marilyn monroe at her peak. but the secondook was called "my week with marilyn" and it was our notion to tell the story of colin's journey on the film. >> rose: seeing the script and
the whole idea that they want you to play marilyn monroe, did you say "yes, yes" or did you say "no, no"? >> i said... i said yes, yes. i don't know. i always find that first time that you read the script is the most... you get the most information and i like... for the first time that i read it to be uninterrted, to notbe in the middle of other things. it's usually something that happens at night after i put my daughter to bed and were i fall asleep and so i sat down with the... got in bed with the script and when i closed it knew that my answer was yes. my decision making process has always been... it's just between me andhe piece material and it's sort of this awful feeling when you realize that you are going to say yes and that you are going to do something because it means that it's bigger than you. it means that it mystifys you. it means that it challenges you in some kind of new and
terrifying ways which why you have to go doit. so i knew the answer was yes and i spent a little time trying to figure out if i could back out of it or change my plan or something. >> rose: but there's so much about her in terms of the multiple parts of her. shy and vulnerable, the biggest movie star. >> yeah, that was the thing tt i think drove me mad and kept me up at night while we were shooting is am i getting all of it? so my m dynamics at play and it's what makes interesting characters and people our opposites and she had so many of them. she had multitudes and i would pull my hair out, how many of them am i capturing? because also your research is endless when you play a part like this. the material available on her, constantly reading new books, watching new movies, stumbling across new documentaries so constantly taking in new informatiomeaning i had to fold that into my interpretation and so that was the question, how much... how much of her am i able to conta at one time?
>> rose: so here you are playing somebody that you've even been compared to at times because you're on the stage, because you're a director, an actor, because you've done so much shakespeare. you're playing larry. >> well, i mean, the... initially it seems as though maybe that wasn't the smartest thick in the world to do and that perhaps it's a bit like monroe. there is lots to find out about and lotso absorb and you have lots of material bus there's lots of ways to get it wrong and the... you know, the notion of whether... this blurred notion of do you do an i presentation or impersonation? what is the way in which you capture the essence of something that's already been seen through this sort of fairy tale lens of a young man seeing it in a way rather innocently? so he paints them perhaps not in a naturalistic way but all of, that of course, becomes something very exciting to do. although simon was saying modestly we helped attract
actors because we wanted work with him and one of the things that was great about joining up as soon as we had our first meeting was to know that not only the business of marilyn and olivier and this sort of weird clash of the titans that's happening alongside this bigger part of the possibility of falling in love perhaps or whatever it is that's going on with colin was the context. 1956, the world is changing, england's just about to undergo a sort of theater revolution which will weirdly-- hard to imagine-- have a social impact. suez canal crisis for us, the cold war, rock 'n' roll is coming over, elvis is just trumpeting sex across the atlantic, so is marlon brando, so is montgomery clift, so is james dean and so is marilyn monroe. and somewhere it seems a little beat behind the band a bunch of actors at pinewood are trying to meet it somewhere in the middle being ve thrilled. i know no one was more thrilled than olivier to arrive at thooet
roe airport without a standstill because marilyn had rived and one of the tsions in the middle of the film is that that is both exciting and also they don't want to talk to me. so... so you get something basic to do with the clash of a certain... >> rose: there's some understanding of what superstardom means, doesn't it? >> he had a hint of it himself but he was going through a source of... in his own writings he seems on the candid about it. he was going through a mid-life crisis and he looked to marilyn to rescue him and in a strange way she might well have done. but not on this movie. and th resultsat in the end becj what in the end became just so irresistible to play in addition to what michelle was saying about the treasure trove of material that as an acto makes you nervous but it really, really makes you excited. >> rose: you had olivier reading the bible. what was that... what did that
give you? >> well, it's... it gave me my entire makeup preparation every morning. so i'd see michee, we would meet outside and she'd get... we'd both go into the zone as it were and you see... i would close my eyes and put the head phones on, they'd start putting the chin piece on, the eyebrows and everything and he would begin this... what is bled as a dramatic reading of the bible and, boy is it at dramatic reading of the bible. if you want to hear exotic vocal characterization listen to the song of deborah performed by lawrence olivier. my jaw would be hanging open at the sounds this man could make. michelle... i don't know what you were listening to but... >> it was like two little command centrals. >> you're going into emotion. emotion time. (laughter) >> rose: and then there's the character of colin. tell me who he is. >> he was a young man aged 23.
>> rose: he went to eton and oxford? >> yes and they was son of ken clarko he was a well connect young man but with a genuine passion to working films and we have eddie redmayne playing him and it was a touching day because eddie, like colin, had gone to eton school and there's a scene in the film where colin takes marilyn back to his old school and we have eddie taking michelle and our crew back to the school and it was a lovely... there's a few scenes. >> rose: it's a true scene of when he takes her back and the kids there at eton just react with a great... >> yes. this is colin's version of what happened in 1956 and we've tried to stick as closelyas possible to colin's story. >> rose: what was about his character that was important to communicate? >> well, i think he... falling in love. >> well, he's a naive young man an innocent young man but strangely emotionally aware and emotnally mature. >> rose: he understood her more
than most. >> and we tried to present in the film he's watching all the time. he's watching marilyn and learning about her and later in the film when he has intimate private moments with her he's able to bring his version of wisdom and his attempt to help and support her. >> what was his insight? i'm talking about the version played in this case so well. what was his insight intoer? >> i think he recognized her genuine ambition to b taken seriously as an actress. >> rose: and her vulnerability. >> and her need to be supported. in 1956 which ken has described so well but it was an incredibly important moment for milyn when she arrived in london because she had ambitions to change her destiny and she had come from london having moved from l.a. to new york now married to arthu miller. >> rose: who comes with her.
yes. with milton green she set up her own production company. she was aahead of her time in the hope of improving the par she was offered and she was coming to london t work with the great olivier and all these thing she is thought were going to help change her career d change the perception of her. and really underneath the love story that is our film is the sad tale of all all these aspirations went wrong and she was disappointed. >> rose: but she left this film to make, as you point out, one of the greatest films she ever made. >> yes, that's the irony. but it wasn't something she produced. it wasn't the marilyn monroe production as this was. yes, ironically, both marilyn and olivier went on to arguably their greatest successes. certainly "someike it hot" is one of the greatest films ever made and marilyn is quite brilliant and olivier-- i think influenced by arthur miller-- had taken "look back in anger" and "john osborne seriously and
his next part was archie rice in "the entertainer" which improved his career in which i think the prince and the show girl would have done. >> and one of the things that was striking to me ineviewing the films at that time is that in "the entertainer" his acting technique seems transformed so in "prince and the show girl" where i think it would be fair to say that marilyn is... pretty wonderful, i think, and olivier feels slightly trapped in a theatrical delivery. i think he was honest... far be it from me to criticize him but he'sonest about the fact that by his high standards it's not perhaps has most successful performance. a year after meeting marilyn who just brings truth to the part... whatever it took, she's truthful. in archie rice and the entertainer it's one of the most naturalistic, open, raw, simple beautiful pieces of acting i've ever seen from a man who a year
ago seemed fossilize bid his own kind of standards and she turned into a guy who's... it's a release if he has burst the bubble and hs stopped being sir lawrence olivier the revered and respected guy and he' at the forefront of an edgy social movement. >> rose: and he appreciated the change? >> it was transformative in the way he was perceived and he said of the role both on age and in film that it was the most... it was his favorite part basically which in a career like that is quite something that came after hitting a brick wall where he fa to understand why it was he couldn't communicate with someone who he
he admired so much. he wanted her magic. >> rose: she wanted what? >> so many things. >> rose: love? respect? >> approval, i think. approval. and also i would imagine sin put direction, but not in the way that it was being offered. you know, it was like she wanted something that was likethis not like thi. (laughter) and the... and it doesn't seem... you know and there were other things getting in the way but, gosh, if only they could have. >> rose: you think if only they could have? >> i think oh, maybe a year later. >> rose: they might have come back after "the entertainer" and after... >> yes, for all the difficulties because olivier had done the play in whicthe film was based on stage with his wife vivian leigh and he had an attitude to the whole method school of acting based on his experience with vivien being directed by kazan previously. >> what was his attitude?
>> i think he was suspicious of it and in some ways his style of acting was the sort of base... derived from the theater, the english way of acting in those days and the false nose and the... he'd approach a character from the outside. >> rose: where do you come dn on that. >> i think whatever gets you there. it's an evolving thing. i alwa get nervous when people talk about the way they like to work because i think it changes and i think actually olivier understood that. i think he was hampered by directing as well as acting. i ink he was hampered by the fact that he played the part on stage for a year so in a way he knew what was effective thee i can't tellryally but he seemed unable to do what he was capable ofhich was the in the moment at a great performer himself. and instead the nature of the character in the film "the prince and the show girl" an arrogant pa ternistic kind of almost despotic monarch mbe in
a weir method way infused t way he behave sod he had to be your very stern daddy. >> we wondered about that, simon and i wondered about that because inside of "the prince and the show girl" marilyn's character, elsie, has a relationshipith the young prince and in my sort of wondering what it was about colin clark, why this... why she was able to open up to this young man and why she trusted him and how did he really have her... attention and affection and when i watched the movie i thought she's method acting. her character has a relationship with this young man and i just... in my imagination some part of her thought, ooh, should explore in one. i don't know what it's like to >> rose: so it's like do it, i'll act better at it. >> unconsciously, yes.
>> everything about the movie in a way... simon's done a wonderful job that on the surface is entertaining and beautifully done but also it has more than... it's a lovely, lovely film of great delicacy and fragility and beauty but had many, many layers of meaning because of this weirdness. so in a way "the prince and the show girl" where in the crudest possible terms it's about an older man who'd like to sleep with a younger woman is in some weird way mirrored by olivier who gets the greatest most beautiful movie star in the world who it's probably no secret to suppose that he would have like to have literally or taphorically seduced her so there's a toy cus ierrupt us the all the way through the movie so it's an add verdict for the strange way in which life imitates a. >> rose: as an actress, as an entertainer, what was r imagine snick >> i don't think ma that she knew what it was.
she... oddly enough she said e didn't lik singing and dancing. e said she wasn't trained. she didn feel like she was very good at it. to me it's when she's at her most incandescent. but it wasn't what sheearned to do. she really did more than anything she wanted to be great. she wanted to be a serious actress. and she did everything that she could, studied, trained harder than i have, harder than anybody i know these days but for some reason it wasn't her gift which is always so funny to me because her... especlly bein a method actor the life... i mean her. r life, the material that she was given to use to make something transrmative out of is very rich stuff but for some reason she couldn't parlay it, she couldt use hit in the way that one is meant to be able to when you're a method actor. which is such a curious
conundrum to me, such a shame that that didn't work out for her. so she didn't know where her gifts were and she felt always insecure, never really a great sense of accomplishment or... from what i've read what about you, simon? >> that's right. i think it's that she really hoped that doing this film with olivier would bring her the credibility and the irony is that she was so desperate to get away from playing this ditzy show girls but the part in this film, that was sort of what it was and i think when marilyn brought her sort of rutiny to the script... the script didn't really hold up >> i'm a grt fan of terence ratigan but it's very hard to work out... >> i think that's one of the reasons she had a difficu time is assuming well, i'm going to take a part that vivien leigh played that must be great, olivier will be there i know
he's great and when she got there discovered that the script was sort of full of holes. and she saddled with a difficult script and a ditzy show girl. >> it's fascinating about this ability to access things in her life. where did she get this joy from that for instance she...ike in the movie it seems so genuine. how was she able to access this thing that you describe as incandescent where she seems so happy. >> rose: exactly! >> i think it's a few things. i think when she's singing and dancing it's... it turns your mind off. ur logical, critical brain is put to sleep because you're too busy doingther things. and i alsohink that some part of her... i think that you... the trauma she experienced when she was a young girl i think some part of you stays locked at that age.
i think she was an eternal child. i think some part of her profndly didn't grow up and i think that's where that joy as well as sadness but i think that where's it comes from because it feels so... feels so child like. >> i think that plays out in our film where colin and marilyn have this idyllic day out and they go skinny dipping in the thames and i hope the scene works on two levels. it should be an erotic charged moment but it should also be the element that they're two young kids having an innocent day out, too. and that colin was able to provide both those things to marilyn in a sense. >> rose: here the "the entertainer." roll tape. ♪ this heat wave for letting my feet wave ♪ and in such a way that they say at i certainly c... ♪ ♪ we're having a heat wa, a
tropical heat we, the way that i move that ♪ remind me to prove that i certainly can ♪ >> rose: then there's the question. how do you get that wig? (laughter) >> i think i remember on my 30th birthday i think i came up to simon and i said "i think i got it!" and then the next day it was gone. >> how do you discover that marilyn herself had adopted body language. >> oh, she was... she was an eternal student. the things that i would... found that she was reading, the thinking body, this book so dense i could hardly get through it that it is... it's about correct placement and posture. if it's... i just started watching her movies over and over and over again and trying to basically... she does it so
well it sms like it's natural, it seems like oh, maybe that's how she really walks and speaks becae it's so seamless. but then things start to become sort of clear and you realize she was really quite average. i hate to say it. but with a normal voice and the ordinaryalk and it was a part she played. marilyn monroe was a part that show honed and developed so it became clearing about the wiggle that maybe there was something that always seems to bind her knees a little bitnd a figure eight to her wiggle. and it looks like she's moving in a vat of honey. there's an up tempo and down tempo. there's an understood ladies and gentlemen to it. a sense of... she sort of... what did somebody say to me? hate to see you leave but love to watch you go. (laughter) it works the event and the...
the advance and the retreat. so gosh, i guess you just start to try and break these things down which is a shame because you're demystifying the magic. >> rose: what did olivier say about her in his memoir is this >> numerous things. i think that he... i guess he failed to understand her inability to show up on time. she gave an interview that... where she... and you'll know this much better than i but what i noticed was for me a perfectly reasable point of view that if if you take yourself seriously she quoted inelation to punctuality the idea that if you were picasso... if olivier directed picasso that said "tomorrow at 8:00 i need you start painting again a" if picasso is not quite right and needs to wait until 4:00 you should probably let picasso
wait. it's going to be worth the wait. and marilyn seemed to indicate that when it came to the role of the aist and what you might call the... i don't kw i'm putting words in her mouth, the relative banality of showing up on time, this was so different. she was waiting for the muse to strike. olivier by contrast said... declared he worked from the outside in also said perhaps immodestly but in his view factually you can only ever... if you are gifted u n only ever be great once or twice in a while and the rest of the time you have to be contend with merely being very, very good. it seemed to me olivier was content so he keeps showing up at 9:00 and perspiration might get him to being great three days in and he didn't mind. he could cope with the three days where he was merely very, very good and i had the sense that marilyn puters in a position where perhaps she could only be great and was analyzing well, i don't feel right today. and that kind of different
approach to what it took, waiting for the muse or mechanically just getting on with it, fake it till you make it. >> rose: perfect became the enemy of good. >> yeah, yeah. that's a very good way of putting it. >> and it takes a tremendous amount of energy to be somebody who's slightly different than yourself. that's thehing that i found. in trying to understand how is it possible to not show up for three days at a time or to come in... hodo you have sympathy for somebody who comes in six hours late? and i discovered what she was... to transm that kind of energy, openness, availability, to be what everybody wants you to be isn't human. it's a kind of superpower. and it takes a lot of energy to source that and to put it out into the world and some days... she says herself what's it like to be an icon? she says on the days when you feel lonely, tired andnlovable it's very difficult. it's a reason to not get out of bed because it's so hard to
... to exist for other people. >> rose: what if there had been the right script? the right film? what might have happened? >> for her? >> rose: for both of them. >> for them? >> i mean, maybe the perfect sort of fusion would have been for the marriage with miller to be going swimmingly well and the recognition of mual insecurities a admirations between her and olivier and miller writes in the most fantastic play or screenplay she's wonderfully riotously happy in her married life, they have a wonderful riotously happy creative relationship and both of them are completely renewed, she gets an oscar, she's considered now a bona fide good housekeeping seal of approval you're areat actress and larry, you're the coolest movie star othe planet and arise sir arthur. >> rose: and mill erwins a pulitzer prize. >> yeah. that would maybe... who knows
whher that would have done it for them. rose: and in a column somebody writes the story of the movie that went on to change lives. thank you. so great to see you again. >> thank you. pleasure to meet you. >> rose: congratulations. >> thank you, thank you so much. >> rose: diane keaton is here. she has starred in some of the most memorable films for the last four decades. in 1978 she won an oscar for her role in "annie hall." the "new york times" once called her "a kind of hippy katharine hepburn. an old time leading lady from an age when she said they didn't do t.v." the eat jack nicholson says of keaton "she's one of the most idiosyncratic interesting people i know." here is a look... she'll love this, qnt wait for her toee this. here's aontage of some of her work. >> i didn't want your son, michael! i wouldn't bring another one of your sons into this world!
it was an abortion, michael! it was a son! a son and i had it killed. >> you playery well. >> oh, yeah, so do you! oh, god, what a dumb thing to say, right? i mean, you say you play well and right away i have to say you play well. oh... oh! god, annie. well... oh, well. lam dee da. i wish you would. i wish you'd get angry so we could get it out in the open. >> i don't get angry, okay? i have a tendency to internalize. i can't express anger. that's one of the problems i have. a grow a tumor inste. >> well, i told you that i was trouble from the beginning, from when we first started dating. >> so what did your analyst say in did you speak to him? >> he's in a coma. he had a very bad acid experience. >> i have to go. >> you don't have to. you want to go running all over the world ranting and raving and making resolutions and
organizing caw kuxs. what's the difference between the communist party and the communist labour party except that you're running one and he's running the other! >> i've made a commitment! >> to what? ♪ and don't tell me what to do ♪ and don't tell me what to say ♪ and when i go out with you ♪ don't put me on display >> pretty good! >> you remember! ♪ you don'twn me, don't try to chge me in any w ♪ you don't own me, don't tie me do because i'll never stay ♪ i don't tell you what to say ♪ i don't tell you what to do ♪ so just let me me be mysf ♪ that's all i ask of you >> you know i've written this but i've never really got it. do you know what this is? >> no.
you're killing me. >> you think it's fun getting your ass kicked? well welcome to daybreak, enjoy the pain, gidget! >> no, it's okay! i have it. i've done this a zillion times. i'm going to fix that and see you later. good talking to you. >> rose: la dee da, what a career. >> you think? >> i do. i do >> it's so hilarious. >> rose: what's ill lairs you about it? >> just everything. some of the clothes i'm wearing. how hard is it to look at myself. >> rose: but you look wearing clothe and finding something that's you. >> i do as you can tell. i'm still doing it. still carting it around. >> rose: what about the hat? there was a hat here lasttime? >> did i wear a hat last time? >> rose: yes, you did. >> let me tell you something... >> rose: fell me something. >> it's the journey toward
framing that head. i talk about that in my book that my face was a process that i hato work on but there's only so much work you can do. >> rose: you wrote a book? >> i did. >> rose: before we talk about the book andhis really amazing mother you had and all the things she wrote which make it all interesting, when you look back for a moment, do you regret at all that you didn't do more? >> rose: >> haven't we seen enough of me? >> rose: no. >> i've done a lot. consider what i am. >> dave: what are you? >> i was an ordinary girl, i was an ordinary woman but i had will and my mother gave me that will and i think i've done a lot with what i've got. don't you look at me and go, okay. sure you do. i've got a big personality but that's about it. >> rose: you think that's it, new >> but i work hard. but i have... i'm limited at best. >> rose: what do you regret? >> well, i really regret that i
didn't say to my mother many things that i wish i had that i'd set to her to herace. >> rose: tell me now what you would say to her? >> i would say to her "if i told you how much i loved you would you feel better about who you are?" that's something i would have said to her. >> rose: because she didn't become what she could have become? >> this is true. she d not become what she could have become. but mainly... not that. that she didn't feel od about who she was. it's not... >> rose: because she was not what she could be. >> not what she hoped she could be. >> rose: the love of your life. >> well, yes, the love of my life. of course. >> rose: why do you say snofk i mean, you've d loves. >> those loves were wonderful temporary experiences. they were not lasting. they didn't... they didn't... i wasn't really a person who could really accept that kind of
intimacy and grow from it and give to it. i was still kind of attached to my expectations. >> rose: of the relationships? >> not of the relationships. of the... for myself. ijust... i said? the book i kind of new early on that i had to make a deal with the devil and the deal was do i really want to pursue my goals because i saw that my mother wasn't able to per sewer her goals while being married and a mother. e what i mean? >> rose: because your mother was married and a mother she did not... >> pursue her goals to the extent she could have. >> rose: so therefore you could never be in a committed relationship of enduring quality because you would not be ableo pursue your goals? >> and the people i chose would not allow me to kind of find myself in the experience you're talking about. i picked the extraordinary people. i think it takes... >> rose: did you pick them or they picked you? >> it depended. one i would say i picked one and
i really pursued it. no, two. maybe three. maybe three. (laughs) >> rose: all them. i picked them. i had dreams of them... >> rose: you had dreams of... >> of them before i knew them. except for al. i never had a dream of al because i never met him. i just heard of him. but of course i saw warren and i saw wade before i knew them. i had opinions about them. >> rose: so when they came calling you were ready? >> yes, of course! i saw warren in "splendor in the grass" when i was working at the broadway theater at santa ana california. >> the most handsome man alive? >> he was breathtaking. he was to die for. i think all girls at that time felt that. all high school girls looking at warren beatty. i mean, the age difference wasn't that much but the difference between the life... i mean, i'm just... i think he's maybe about nine years older than me. that's all. >> rose: when he came... you were easy?
>> no, i wasn't easy. i mean, come on, charlie, let's give me a break here. what do you think i am? i wasn't easy but i s infatuated by him, of course. >> rose: (laughs) i love the story... >> yeah. >> rose: he knows you're nervous about flying >> yeah. that was a great story. rose: you're going from l.a. to new york. >> uh-huh. >> rose: he gets on the plane, holds your hand, flies five hours. >> uh-huh, yeah. >> rose: plane lands, says "you'll be okay." kisses you good-bye, turns around, goes the next flight, flies back to l.a.. that is warren beatty. >> oh, i know, i know. that's... >> rose: right there. >> that's an aspect of waen. >> rose: it is. >> that's a beautiful aspect and i think it's something to call in love with. >> rose: there nothing i won't do just to be next to you. >> odd thing to say but it's completely enchanting to feel someone say that to you. >> rose: it is, indeed. >> yeah, i'm a girl. >> rose: and woody? >> woody wasn't like that at
all. >> rose: you wanted to meet him. he was extraordinary. >> of course, and i still love him. but woody, no, woody was about... we were friends for a long time because we were in that play together "play it again, sam." i got cast in "play it again, sam." so i had to work the room with him. he had to get used to me, get to know me and when i became this person who he couldn't get rid of i think he sort of finally said "okay, i kind of like her in spite of everything. she's there." i was a good audience. >> rose: back to mom. tell me what she was like. >> here's what mother was. she was an extraordinary listener. she was a very active listener. she was somebody who didn't make judgment calls. she just let you go. so it was like ina washe was a person who did teach me how to think because... i remember i had all kinds of problems.
i wasn't cast by mr. kenny aiken and he was mr. music of orange county in a role in "ragged di ann." you don't understand, you're not looking like you feel the tragedy. >> rose: (laughs) >> you're not my mother! she didn't turn out... but she would sit there and be so concerned and sympathetic. she was like "go ahead and pursue what you want, diane." she was a remarkable mother in that regard and very modern for the time. >> rose: and wanted everything for you. >> for all of us, yes. >> rose: looking at these pictures, what is this? >> that's a pi of her journals. she wrote 85 journals. she wrote all theime. >> rose: so you looked at those
and read them and wrote at the same time. >> here's what happened. when sheas alive i came across one of her journals and i started to read it and i read something that w very upsetting to meand i decided that i di't want to read my moth's journalanymore, it was too much for me to deal with. so i put them aside and i never read them. but when i had the idea that i might write a book of course it was a great excuse for me to have to read my mother's journals so really this book is an editing job more than anything else. contrasting her words with mine because i kept journals, too, and letters and the thing that i like about using other people's voices is that it's just... the flavor of her voice when she was young versus her voice as she got older and this became her cathartic experience was to write alo and that was really her personal... everything was there on the page. she didn't have an onlyist to talk to. >> rose: was this a cathartic
experience for you? >> it s a cathartic experience for me to read my mother's words. that was the cathartic experience. and that was very upsetting and sad because i cat bring her back. that's why i called it "then again" because sometimes i would be so involved... look, i'm an actress, right? i've got a lot of feelings, i like emotions, i want to feel them, i want to experience things. so i would read this and just sometimes i just felt like i was almost there with her, you know? then. or again. again i was there. >> rose: it would take you back. >> y, but in this way that i could almost recreate the scene. this is what actors do. you put yourself in these situations and you go there and for whatever it's worst it goes with those extraordinary experiences. that's why kissing jack in "something's gotta give" was so powerful to me because it was like as a 57-year-old woman i got to play a woman my age who
was falling in love, seriously in love, for the first me in her life and it was just... i didn't know what to do with it. and then i had to have that first kiss. not the one where you screened where i grab him and take him in my hand and kiss him... can you imagine doing that with jack nicholson? not in real life! but when it's a fictional piece, come on! it's great. it'she most thrilling thingn life. so to remember my mother to have her words there and to feel for r in these situations and... i don't know. >> i think i heard you say earlier... >> rose: i think i heard you say earlier you said "love i the most thrilling thing in the world" but in the sense you've limited your... because of the career thing. >> well, that's what the movie roles are. it's a career thing but it's... but what's fun about it is that it's an intimate choice that's
safe. to play these roles you're playing it within the context of the story. and that's a safe world so acting was this wonderful way to let go and explore anger and love and laughter with woody and being insecure and all these things. it was just amazing. >> rose: read me something. >> no! oh, really. >>ose: really. >> no, no. >> rose: i insist. you brought it here to read and i want you. >> no, but i wanted to do it only if it came out of something we were talking about. i didn't want to have to force you to hear... oka, get your hands on it. i'm going to have to hit you. i'll read something. i'll read something. here's a different voice. look, you know, my mom. i was a bad student, right? i was a c-minus student a i was in dumbbell english and the teachers wervery concerned about me and tn they took a nationwide tesabout your intelligence.
i'm sure that all... this is in the late '50s and i scored high in one subject and i was so excited about this and i didn't know what to do but yind what it was and the subject was something called "abstract reasoning" and so i went home to my mom a i say "i scored really high in abstract reasoning. what is is?" and she said that it w ability to analyze iormation and solve problems on a thought-bed level. and so i thought... >> rose: mart mom. >> yeah, she was smart. she was very smart. but anyway, so... but in the meantime that didn't help with my english. so the teacher suggested that i receive a diary from my mother so my mother never bag stickler for anything like education, she was far more interested in my aspirations. for example, if i was going to try out for the talent show with "all i want for christmas is my
two front teeth" it was her idea that i black out my teeth. so she had many, many thoughts on the creative level but in a practical way like actually knowing a proper noun from a common noun she was no help at all. so she gave me this diary and this is an excerpt from one of my diaries and i'm reading this because you have to understand there's a lot of voices. i got permission from woo, warren and al to use some of their letters or things that they sent to me. i used whatever i could get fro my father, my gram, i tried to mix my life in with these voices so this is a voice of mine when i was too old to be writing like this. do you understan >> i do. i can't wait. >> it's breathtaking. so i say "dear diary,oday i went downtown with virginia and pat and all they did was talk about each other plus pat told virginia i like larry blare and i cannot stand one thing about
her her big fat mouth. and then, of course, virginia couldn't wait to tell me that larry likes jeannine seton. well you know what? he can just have her. and not only that, some person predicted the world would end tomorrow and i got a d on my algebra test." so that gives you an idea the kind of person i was. yet at the same time when i was a six-month-old child, like a baby, my mother was kind of talking like a person out of an andyardy movie. you kn, like the kind of language she was was... this is a letter to my dad and she said "i love you as much as i can and if i look the whole world over i couldn't see anyone but you because no one could ever make me feel any happier than you always have and always will." >> rose: she said that about jack hall? >> that's what she said when she was 24. so she changed and, of cours, i changed and people changed and so some of eseittle things
in there i think give flavor to how we all change in the course of lif and how we express and use language. >> rose: you said "i was an ordinary girl who became an ordinary woman with one exception, my mother gave me extraordinary will >> yes, she did. she did. look at me i'm sitting here talking to, you charlie rose. >> rose: there you go. and have lived and lived this remarkable life. >> well... >> rose: well, it's true. do you look at annie hall as it was you at that time in your life? >> i think there are aspects. i can still stumble around with words and i think what was interesting about "annie hall" was how woody captured the language of me at that time in my life. and knew how to write it. and that's really unusual to capture somebody who's basically inarticulate. i became famous for being an inarticulate woman and so that's not hard for me to go... well,
again and whatever, yeah, sure. i don't know, maybe, itould. i can still do it. because it ally is easy for me just to fumble. while i'm groping my way through. rose: is it that or is it that it gives you a protective color? it gives you a place. it's something you know how to do well and it's attractive and you can fumble even though you don't have to fumble. >> maybe. but i don't think i fumble adds much, do you think? >> rose: you have a certain... are you going tbe critical of me? am ioing to go home and cry? >> rose: you have self-depprycation do to an art. >> today, too? >> rose: yes! >> okay. >> rose: i'm not a psychoanalyst so i shouldn't be doing this, should any >> it's okay. you can do whatever you want. >> rose: you did say your mother continued to be the most important influence in your life because you have all this. you not only have the life you have these things. >> i have a life.
that i believe documentation is key and my mother says that she says everyone should write an autobiography in some form or another. why not? >> rose: is there anything you wanted to do you didn't do? >> oh, there's so many things i want to do. >> rose: like what? >> well, first of all a... don't laugh. >> rose: i'm not. >> well, i have a product line at bed bath & beyond. i do! you're laughing, see? now that's not right! i'm proud of this. >> rose: i'm sorry. i wish i had a product line at bed bath & beyond. what's yours? >>ell, i design beds. i want you go there, certain select bed bath & beyond and buy one of my beds. >> rose: why wld it be different than any other bed? sgluz >> because of the way it looks. >> rose: well explain it to me. >> if you told me i was going to be... i brought my... i have a brochure. >> rose: you have pictures? >> of cose i do! of course. i dign dinnerware. >> rose:hy do you do all this?
>> because i love it! >> rose: one more way to make money? so you can buy me house and redo them. >> no, no... well, first of all... no! wrong again. the look i love design, can't you tell? i'm totally a visual person because of my mother. >> rose: and you have... >> i talk about that in the book. we can two go into that. (laughs) rose: b you have look. i mean, you... look, you have on a hat. >> what's wrong with that? >> rose: this is a television show. you're covering up your face. >> i'm not, you can see enough of it. >> rose: no we can't. take the hat off! take that hat off, girl! >> you're like dick smith. >> rose: who is dick smith? >> he s a makeup artist in "the godfather" and he hated hat and he hated marlon brando in the hats and he said "what are you wearing the hat for?"
i'm wearing it because it looks good and it frames my head. >> rose: and if you think that... >> i feel good! >> rose: and if you think that... >> but now you've destroyed it. i'll never wear a hat again. >> rose: you will wear a hat tonigh you don't need to go to a shrink just come to this table. >> i can talk. good. have me back, i'll come. i have a lot to say. >> rose: here's the the other thing about you. authencity. you get the feeling this is you. what you see is what you get. not true or true? >> pretty much true. i don't know. >> rose: when they said you were a hipier katharine hepburn. what did you say? >> i think katharine hepburn was elegant and of her time. >> rose: you were elegant and of your tim >> not elegant. i wouldn't call me elegant. i wouldn't go there. >> dave: what are you doing next year? you're doing this thing called "darling companion?" >> then i have another movie... >> rose: and then a movie with robert de niro? what's that called? >> the big wedding."
i'm robert de niro's wife. i'm fun. >> rose: how great a picture is this? how perfect is that picture? >> that's a great picture. >>. >> rose: that's you. you look at that and say yeah. don't you? >> i do. >> rose: you've done a good thing for yourother. >> thank you. oh, look at her. she deserves every bit of it. i wish she were here. >> rose: i do too. >> charlie, thank you so much for having me. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. alfredo quinones-hinojosa is out with a memoir about his journey from a farm worker to the highest levels of medicine. also, zachary quinto is here. he is out in a timely film about wall street called "margin call ." we are glad you joined us. coming up, right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every
day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: alfredo quinones- hinojosa is a renowned neurosurgeon and director of the pituitary tumor center at johns hopkins. his remarkable path from mexico to the united states is the subject of a new memoir,
"becoming dr. q: my journey from migrant farm worker to brain surgeon." an honor to have you on this program. i just want to touch this hand. >> i am honored to be here with you. tavis: it is my delight. let me jump into it. i was thinking that if herman cain had his way, you would have been electrocuted, trying to halt the fence from mexico to the united states. let us deal with this now. what is your sense of the immigration debate? you have to be the poster tough for what happens in america when we treat with disney -- with dignity and america -- dignity and respect the people who come to america. >> i read the newspaper today. it breaks my heart when i hear things like that. i look back at my life, my history, when i first came in the mid to late 80's. i was welcomed. this country opened
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