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tv   This Week With Christiane Amanpour  ABC  May 1, 2011 9:00am-10:00am EDT

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this week -- budget blowback. >> we can't afford it, you moran. >> at town halls across america erupt over a plan to slash spending. republicans find themselves under fire. >> he was yelling at me, cursinging at me. >> i go to the heartland with the man behind the plan. house budget chairman, paul ryan of wisconsin. >> prove to them that wisconsinites of having civil debates. then, in the crosshairs, a nato bomb hits a house with gadhafi inside, killing his son and three grandchildren. how will the strong man strike back, and how does it all end? >> this is where i direct
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operation operations. >> was the way out for the u.s.? a former administration insider weighs in. plus, we're live from the vatican, as pope john paul ii gets one step closer to sainthood. is the fast track too fast? >> announcer: live from the newseum in washington, "this week" with christiane amanpour starts right now. >> welcome to our viewers here and around the world. there is a lot happening this sunday and we begin with unfolding news in the libyan capital, tripoli. the libyan government is contempting what it called, quote, a direct operation to assassinate moammar gadhafi, this, after a nato bomb hit gadhafi's compound. it spared him but killed three of his grandchildren and his youngest son. could this be a game hin changer in the war which drive a
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stalemate. we go to libya. abc's miguel marquez in benghazi and bbc's christian is in tripoli. let's start with you, christian. are they in tripoli? >> reporter: that's a possible. the way it was orchestrated it was deliberately held for two hour, we were take therein and given a press conference which abraham spells out what he thought. certainly, he puts pressure on nato and its allies. we've seen already a very angry reaction from his supporters in tripoli, reports of attacks on the u.s. embassy, i spoke to u.n. officials who said their offices were looted and attacks on the british and eye tanyan missions in tripoli. the concern is what colonel
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gadhafi's response will be. we haven't heard from him yet and don't know what the international reaction will be to what unfolded here last night. >> a lot of question there's christian, we'll continue to monitor it. of course the u.s. embassy is empty, because all of the stars have been evacuated over the last weeks and moss. now we go to the other side of this conflict and abc's miguel marquez who is in the east in rebel-held benghazi. what is the reaction from the rebels? do they think this attack could end the stalemate and signify a new impetus for them? >> reporter: the rebels certainly aren't buying this attack. they think no one was killed in tripoli. they're literally saying, show us the bodies. they believe this is a trick, another trick by moammar gadhafi and is making this up to win international support to divide the coalition, they simply want to see those bodies, whether or not it makes a difference will
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depend on what colonel gadhafi and his troops do. >> is there any sense beyond this attack that the rebels are getting any more organized or any more weapons that they can take advantage of the help that nato is giving them? >> a lot of wings and nods here, there are indications that they are arming up. there's been some reporting on that front, but the rebels are being very shy about it. there are reports that they are rebels, but we haven't seen any ef sense of that. the other thing the rebels say about this is that the predator drones were a huge boost to them and they believe the u.s., they hope, will take even a greater role in leading operations here in libya. christiane. >> miguel, thank you so much. and later in the show, we'll get an expert's take on whether this attack on gadhafi will be a turning point on what has become a stalemate for the united states and its allies. but first we turn to a
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different sort of battle waged right here in the united states. it's a budget battle and this was the week republican congress members went home to defend their sweeping budget plan for the constituents. and the reception at one town hall after another was rocky. the plan is the brain child of house budget chairman paul ryan who is feeling some of the heat himself. i travelled to wisconsin to see how ryan is weathering the storm. >> how are the crowds increasing and levels of anxiety? >> no two ways about it. >> congressman ryan is at the center of the storm. it's his plan that sparked the outcries across the country, the anger is palpable. >> you gave away all of those tax cuts. >> we've seen republican congressman fending off boos and cat calls from constituents over a plan to fundamentally overhaul two programs millions of
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americans have come to count on. medicare and medicaid. with congress in recess, ryan is holding as many as four town meetings a day, and it's still not enough to keep up with demand from miss constituents. >> what i can do is give you a list of other listening sessions we have scheduled today. >> the crowds are really getting bigger and people are getting much more anxious about where the country is headed. >> this is the tail end of the marathon series of town halls who seems wholly unconcerned with the heat he's taking these dace. though the crowds we saw in wisconsin are mostly friendly some of the town meetings have been contentious. >> we do trickle down. >> this is the sign of the times, i think. i think it's sign of anxiety of the times and sign of misinformation perpetrated out there. >> what do you mean, misinformation? >> there are tv, radio and phone calls running, trying to scare seniors. the democratic national committee is running phone calls
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to seniors, tv ads, saying we are hurting current seniors when in fact that's not the case. >> isn't that par for the course. >> both party dos this. my whole point is, that's why we have political paralysis. >> on the day we joined him, the gym at franklin high school fills up well before the congressman arrives. >> everybody -- >> ryan's presentation is earnest and must be said, wonky. >> i showed you our government. basically the budget from last year. >> reporter: the most controversial aspect of paul ryan's budget plan would transform medicare. he knows that could be political poison with seniors, so he made sure to remind those in the crowd, the changes wouldn't impact them. >> how many of you are 55 years of age or older? this budget does not affect your medicare benefits. >> reporter: but for many, that leaves more questions than
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answers, especially since budget watch dogs, estimate the medicare revamp, would cost people who are now under 55, thousands of dollars out of pocket each year, once their benefits kick in. and that has some here in franklin, very concerned. >> it's going to be a real burden for them, especially with the economy coming up. i think about all of the 54-year-olds who have been unemployed. where are they going to come up with this money in ten years to last their whole lifetime. >> reporter: ryan argue, delay is not an option. >> put these three forms in now, they don't take affect for ten years to give people time to repair. if we keep kicking the can down the road and keep going trillions of dollars deeper in the hole. then the reform will be sudden, severe and immediate and it will catch people by surprise. >> reporter: then the session ends and congressman ryan is off. i stayed back to speak with two
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the women in the audience. jackie and lois, each with different perspectives on the plan. >> i don't appreciate it at all. i think it's not fair. i think it's selfish, it's self-centered. you are worried about the seniors of today and we have the seniors of tomorrow. we need to be worried about them too. it's a better way of fixing his plan -- this problem that we didn't get into, but we always got to be the ones. >> did you vote for paul ryan? >> no. >> did you? >> yes. >> lois said ryan is trying to fix the problem before time and money run out. >> the congressional budget office said the average senior will end up paying some $6,500 more for their health care. >> in ten years. >> yes. >> by 2020, the whole plan is going to crack. >> talk about this later, cbo office said status quo of medicare is unsustainable.
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>> it's going to shift a huge burden on to the elderly. >> what the cbo also forgot to add we're giving additional income for low income seniors. cbo concur, comparing any medicare plan with medicare status go is a fiscal fantasy. it's not going be able to occur because it's unsustainable. >> reporter: ryan dismisses the talk that this will cost republicans in the polls. >> now people are getting worried. perhaps think it might cost the election. >> sure. i hear fromth from the pundits and pollsters that this hurts us politically. i don't care about that. what i care about is getting the debt situation under control. literally, christiane, if all we fear are our political career, we have no business having these jobs. if you have to get good at these jobs you have to lose the job. >> reporter: politically it's a
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dell cant dance. listen to speaker boehner discuss ryan's plan in an interview with john karl. >> it's paul's idea. >> reporter: how do you feel when speaker boehner tells abc news that he's not vetted to your program. it's a good idea. one of many. >> it's an institutional statement reflecting budget resolution, a budget resolution which we passed, it's the architecture of a budget. >> you didn't take it personally? >> no, it wasn't meant to be personal. i didn't take it that way. >> are you sure about that? >> yeah, i talked to him quite a bit about this. >> reporter: and with that, we alive r arrive at our next stop. some booed, but mostly cheered. the crowd is largely supportive. >> i want to thank you for being a bold person and standing up and saying we can't continue this way. >> reporter: still this man is
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angry, that ryan's plan refuses to tax the weltiest. >> i think people think this is magic fairy dufrt. make some people pay more taxes it will fix all our problems. let's keep our eye on the ball. it's spending. the sooner we get this under control, the better off everybody will be? >> how do you feel being made the boogie man? >> i don't think about it. >> reporter: at the end of the day, congressman ryan and i sit down to talk about the bottom line. >> people studying your numbers very carefully say the numbers don't add up. >> the congressional budget office say they do. >> it also says two-thirds of the savings that you want to make in spending cuts come at the expense of programs designed for the poor, for the disadvanta disadvantaged. and this sl reverse
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robinhoodism. if you like. take from the poor and give to the rich again. >> i disagree with that. spending increases in this budget. spending increases butality a more sustainable rate. here's the problem, christiane, the safety net we have right now is going bankrupt. it's tearing apart at seams. >> what you're proposing, seems like it puts a lost burden on the seniors. they are worried they won't be able to aford cost of health insurance. >> we say give them more money to cover their expenses, don't give wealthy people as much to cover their expenses because they're wealthy and can afford more. but you have to get at the root of inflation. even president obama is saying slow the growth raid of medicare. >> reporter: for now the president and congressman seem far apart. as we crisscross his wisconsin strict. i ask paul ryan if the budget bargain could be in the offing? >> do you think these massive issues that you're dealing with, the budget, let's say, can be
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done only by one party? >> no. no, i don't. >> you have to work together? you have to negotiate? >> yeah, i think so. >> is that atmosphere available? >> no. not right now. we're probably not goating to get a grand slam agreement that fixes all of these problems. my now hope is get a single or a double. get something done that gets us on the right path. >> congressman ryan said he expects republicans and democrats to agree on fiscal controls to lock in spending levels, but he said a big picture deal on the debt crisis probably won't lap before the 2012 election. it's what the treasury secretary tim geithner said a couple weeks ago. the big question remain, can the united states afford to wait that long? the powerhouse "roundtable" tackles that and weighs in with their reviews of the president's stand-up act as well at the president's white house correspondence dinner. >> tonight, for the first time, i'm releasing my official birth
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individual yoecht let's take a look. ♪ >> "this week" with christiane amanpour, brought you to by pacific life. for insurance, annuities and investments. choose pacific life, the power to help you succeed. during its first year, the humpback calf and its mother are almost inseparable. she lifts her calf to its first breath of air, then protects it on the long journey to their feeding grounds. one of the most important things you can do is help the next generation. at pacific life, we offer financial solutions to accomplish just that. ask a financial professional about pacific life. the power to help you succeed.
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he's taken some flack lately. but no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the donald. that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter, like, did we fake the moon landing? what really happened in roswell? and where are biggie and tupac?
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a little light moment last night from the white house correspondence dinner. president obama taking a shot at donald trump. funny stuff and we'll talk about it a little later. across the country passions are running high on a more serious matter, a republican debt reform plan that would slash spending and revamp medicare and medicate without raising taxes for the wealthy. has paul ryan laid the road to victory for his party or will the party have the last laugh? george joining me, george will. arianna huffington of the huffington post p. chrystia freeland and david stockman. first, george, you heard what i asked congressman ryan, republicans seem to be running now from the plan. is this an election loser for them? will they stick with him? >> they've clearly made a wager that this time the american
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people mean what they say about cutting government. his plan now for the budget, is not the same as but in the same general direction of the road map he proposed for entitlement reform and all of the rest a few years ago. pointing out the grand total of 14 cosponsors, people not able to embrace it. he made them embrace it by making them run. republicans are somewhat emboldened by the example of marco rubio running for the senate in florida in 2010 when an estate, planted thick with seniors, known as god's antichamber in the great state of florida, he said we must raise the retirement age, and in some sense means to have social security. he said that volatile thing in that state and won on a landslide. >> he's starting to listen to this incredible budget debate where we're basically discussing what we're cutting, without discussing what's happening in the country with jobs.
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basically, despite having a reduction in employment. we know this is really statistical reason because of the shrinking of the actual labor force, but not any real creation of jobs. and that's really what is outstanding, but we're not focusing on this. you go around the country, there's this anxiety, fear, kids graduating from college not able to get jobs, foreclosures have stayed rampant. even mitt romney is talking about the problems of people not being able to make ends meet. >> what about the figures? basic arithmetic. it is complex. you go to the town hall meetings and presentations are complex. even people with vaguely converseant views on all of this find it difficult to understand. is there a way to figure out what the actual mess is without figuring political and ideological debates? is there a way to reduce the
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debt. get a hold of it without huing to different political views? >> i think it's always a political debate what is missing is an example of political cowa cowardess is taxes. we heard in the under view, ryan said this is about cutting spending. it's partly about cutting spending. but it's also about raising taxes. i think that's the thing that no one has the courage to talk about. i think there should be more taxes on the very rich. they are doing incredibly well in this economy, but it is going to be about more taxes on the middle class, including consumption tacks. >> i want to get to consumption taxes. paul ryan said people see tax hikes as a fairy dust that will solve everything. is either party dealing with the tax issue in a way that could actually solve something? >> both parties delusional in thinking this is a long-run
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problem. the ryan plan gets the balanced budget in 2030, the fiscal here after. we have a here and now problem. this debt we're issuing every day, 6 billion a day is not being bought by real investors, it's bought by the fed and other central banks, and they are going out of business in june. the fed is stopping the bond buying. the chinese no longer need to buy and the japanese have their own problem. once we have to sell the debt to real investors, interest rates will start rising, and the crisis will come immediately, in the next two or three years. now, what does ryan do in the next two or three years? nothing, he cut 600 or 700 billion of spending, mostly from a small part of the budget, discretionary and safety net. leaves medicare totally untouched for three years, leaves social security totally untouched for ten year, leaves defense totally untouched for the next three years then after
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cutting that small amount, gives it all back by extending all of the bush tax cuts that we can't afford. that's getting nowhere. in three years he does not cut one dime from the debt. >> i have a question for you, you worked for ronald reagan. do you think the american economy, you're a red blooded capitalist, could it sustain taxes like it has now? p absolutely. in 1982 we were looking at jaws of the recession since the 19 30s. we did in in '81, cut tacks, came back with a big deficit plan. the economy is in dire shape and we raised taxes by 1.2% of gdp which is 150 billion a year. right now, not ten years down the road, but right now. that's what we did in 1982, because we still have people in government that realize you can't put on this kind of debt into the world financial market. >> george, senate majority leader harry reid is calling for
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a vote on this up or down. what is that going to do, and do you think there is room for some kind of debate on a consumption tax, even though very few people want to do income? >> people in my situation will be all for it. as soon as they repeal the 16th amendment. otherwise they pile a consumption tax which is invisible to most people on top of the income tax. larry summer, the departing economic adviser said, conservatives hate the consumption tax, they think it's money machine for government. liberals don't like it, they think it's regressive. we'll get a consumption tax when liberals real liz it's a money machine. the senate voted and nonbinding resolution, 86-10 against the idea of a consumption tax. >> what is interesting, paul ryan is leading up. he's talking about this reform in medicare, not even allowing the government to negotiate with
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fapharmaceutical companies to reduce drug costs. he's not addressing the major problem of drug costs rising, health care costs rising. also finally instead of the last week, he started talking about corporate welfare, oil and gas subsidies, franks. that isn't part of his budget. how can you be addressing seriously, without addressing seriously, he said what sounded interesting, doesn't want the government picking winners and losers, that's part of the left and right debate and people across the political spectrum. let's focus on this. >> he said to us, that he is willing to talk about, sort of getting rid of all of those subsidies to oil companies and those loopholes. where do you think this is headed, though, in real economic fiscal terms? is there going to be some kind of deal on the very difficult issues? >> i thought that what you and ryan had to say was right. i think it's hard to see a real
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deal before the presidential election and i think david is right to point out that could turn out to be quite tricky. where we have the important market judgment is in june when all of this money that the federal reserve has person pumping into the economy and buying back, that's going to stop. we really see, how much is the world prepared to support the u.s. economy? >> we'll continue right after a break. up next, president obama releases his birth certificate, and donald trump claims credit. more of that with our "roundtable" right after this. l. and here's what we did today in homes all across america: we created the electricity that powered the alarm clocks and brewed the coffee. we heated the bathwater and gave kelly a cleaner ride to school. cooked the cube steaks and steamed the veggies. entertained dad, and mom, and a neighbor or two. kept watch on the house when they slept. and tomorrow we could do even more. we're cleaner, domestic, abundant and ready now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power today. learn more at
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i'm speaking to the vast majority of the american people, as well as the press. we do not have time for this kind of silliness. we got better stuff to do. >> today, i'm very proud of myself. because i've accomplished something that nobody else has been able to accomplish. our president has finally released a birth certificate. >> president obama and donald trump earlier this week. so, have we seen the last of the birthers? let's bring back our "roundtable." have we seen the last of this, george? >> sure. to the extent that people are open to evidence. now there are some people in a nation of 310 million people. there are some people just cracked and we'll always have them out there. >> you say cracked.
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on this program last week, we poke with reverend franklin graham. he seemed to flirt with the idea of giving credence to this and supporting donald trump. i asked him, why is it this issue has been hijacked by the lunatic fringe and it's become such an issue, this is what i asked and this is what he responded. you're a very important figure, you have a big following and a lot of authority. this business about the birth certificate. it really has been debunked over and over again. i want to know why somebody like you can't just say, enough already. >> no, i'm not -- you were asking me about donald trump -- >> i'm not talking about president obama. >> right. but it's trump that has built this up. i'm not bringing up his birth certificate. i'm just saying, it looks like for the critics out there, his critics, and i'm not one of them. his critic, looks like he could shut their mouths quickly by
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coming up with a little more than what he has come up with. >> he has come up and you're shaking your head, chrystia. >> i think it's obvious he is going to move on to new things. we've seen donald trump saying maybe his college documents aren't exactly right. i think there is something behind this. that a lost people aren't talking about and the president hinted about with the "lion king" stuff and saying michele bachmann, maybe she was born in canada. part of the whole birther movement, to find a way, is he really american? can this black guy really be american? >> i don't think it's racist. washington has become a theater and lost the point it should be about government. and one of the reasons is that the fed has enabled rug r washington to run massive deficits, year after year after
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year. and issue all of these bonds and get away with it. so, therefore, since there are not worried, since they don't fear the consequence of what they're doink, they areal willing to engage in this kind of, you know, rank theater, when, so to speak, rome is burning. and one of these day, we're going to have a rude awakening and i believe it's coming son. >> all this happened in times of deep economic anxiety. paranoid politics can thrive and dom goi demagoguefy can thrive and people believe things which there's no evidence. >> clearly people believe things which there's no evidence. is donald trump a serious candidate given the fact that haley barber, governor of mississippi stepped out? where does the republican field look right now? >> the republican field m looks
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fine. they lost hayley barber, he lost it because anyone that does what you have to do to become president shouldn't be allowed to be president. this requires a ten-year commitment. i'm not prepared to make it that's not a moral failing, some people see it as sign of maturity. you have romney, pawlenty -- >> huckabee. is this a good moment -- >> it might be. we limited the field. we know who the choices will be. the republicans have to nominate someone who is a plausible president then it's referendum on mr. obama. >> seth meyers last night made a point when he said, the one person who can really beat the president is obama '08. what happened to him? i was talking to the hard core
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democrat, he said that obama is gone. he's not coming back, you just have to win. this is what is happening, it's a interesting dynamic. hard core democrats are about winning, but the problem for the white house is first-time voters who came out in large numbers and really got him to the white house in '08. are they coming back? they're not just about winning, they are inspired. that's the other thing. what do you believe i am going to do this year? is he going to find something to rime with debt ceiling? >> what is the correct or winnable economic strategy to be taking going into the this election? obviously, saying it is about jobs. i think you're saying, all of this is obscure the necessity to figure out jobs? >> i think especially for a democrat which the president is, i have been surprised they haven't pushed much more on that. maybe they are worried that they don't have a very strong jobs record. i think they are letting the
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republicans set the terms of the debate and debate is about cutting spending, maybe raising taxes. inie a smart democratic strategy would be to come out and say i am the guy who will focus on middle class jobs? kay -- >> i think the right strategy is to focus on the engine of destruction in our economy todayly is the fed. the fed is savaging main street with zero interest on their savings with the massive inflation we have now in food and fuel. at the same time. it is fueling the greatest bubble that we've seen yet. even bigger than housing. it's all going to a few thousand people. now, that has to stop, and he could stop that, and yet, what did he do? he reappointed the same guy who brought you the problem that elected him in 2 008. >> you discuss this later in the green room and up next, we go to rome where the catholic church put p pope john paul ii one step
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to read and consider carefully before investing. controversy in rome as pope john paul ii is beatified. putting him on the fast track to sainthood. a live report from the vatican, up next. >> announcer: this week with christian amanpour will continue in a moment after this from our abc stations. "this week with christian amanpour will continue in a moment after this from our abc stations. ú
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welcome back. we toldyou at the top of this program that a nato air strike hit a building with moammar gadhafi inside in libya. reportedly it just missed him but killed his youngest son and three grandchildren. it's been a costly week across the middle east, including for the united states service member, nine of whom were murdered by an afghan pilot right there near kabul. joining me to talk about it is
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nassir and aaron woodrow who used toe be a peace adviser. gentlemen, thank you very much for joining me. >> a pleasure. >> this is a big day. people are wondering whether this is a turning point. this is tack in tripoli, very close to the gadhafi stronghold and apparently killing one of his sons. what does this mean as the u.s. policy seems to be in a stalemate? >> if i found diplomatic issues that it raises. it's clear that it's changing. this is not self-sustaining anymore. it's increasingly coming upon the united states, or pressure upon the united states to push it to the next stage that. could be a tall order. it could be messy and we need to sort of step back and think about how we tackled this new challenge. >> so, in libya, you say the narrative is chaining. is it a war without end? what is it saying? >> it's a war without end.
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at least it's coming down to literally having to remove gadhafi out of the scene. if nato is going after him. it is essentially sending a signal outthat dempsey will succeed. rebels will not succeed unless we go in and remove the leadership. that's obviously the whole new order of business with this issue? >> potentially removing the leadership, if it comes to that, what about in seary, where you worked very closely on those issues for republican and democratic administration. people are looking at that as being a very bloody week in seary. yet, no sort of idea that the president should be removed. >> great powers are allowed and do behave critically and consistently, in reality, libya was easy. full initially, no serious defense system, no serious ally, we could get away with and did, military intervention, syria is
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quite different. number two you don't have a fundamentally divided country, you have repression, and you have assad organizing power. i think it's a negative one and an old story. but it will take a long time for this movie to play out. >> the movie is being closely watched by many people in the united states and around the world. people are always coming up to me and asking, what does this mean? what happened? tunisia. what happened in egypt. people thought egypt was a democratic revolution which it has an opportunity to be. but the latest pew poll gives worrying figures to the united states. basically saying about egypt that 52% of egyptians now disapprove how president obama is dealing with the calls for political change in their own nations, egypt, tunisia, bahrain and libya. then their few of the united states, 79% unfafrpable.
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20% favorable. how can this be? people hope a democratic middle east would actually have a better view of the united states. >> first of all, we're not at a democra democracy, all we've achieved is libya, the leadership is gone. they're actually adriving at dempsey. there's short distance between euphoria and disenchantment. finally the fundamental issues that divided the people from the middle east from the united states have not gone away. the middle east has been busy with other issues recently, but when the dust settles the critical issues out of the israeli process, whole issue between islam in the west, iran, all of these issues still there. nothing happened to close the gap between our perception of those issue, and the people's perception of those issues in the muslim world. >> i'm going to get to the middle east peace process. i want to ask you further.
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the foreign policy of egypt looks like they are going closer their tra figuresal adversaries, iran, hamas people, definitely adversaries of the united states as well. why is that? >> for the longest time, our foreign policy relief was based on support of the palace who didn't need to deal with the people of the middle east. it's kings of saudi arabia and jordan that made decisions that we work with. now we have to deal with countries reflecting the public opinion. >> of the street. the famous arab street. >> until there's sucommon groun between our street and their street we'll have this juncture, it's possible on issues of al qaeda, there's some common interest between americans and people of the middle east. but issues -- the israeli issue out of iran and a number of
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other issue, the gab is still too wide and we'll see that opinion of the region is going to get reflected in the foreign policy. >> now on the middle east, people are asking about the development this week, the principle authorities supported by the united states and hamas which the u.s. and israel say is a terrorist organization. what does that say for the peace process or is there one? >> it's not even noon and i'm already depressed talking about this issue. our street credit is way down. we're near admired. feared or respected as much as we need to be. given the fundmental nature and vital interest we have in this region. we're involved in three wars when the standard is not when can we win but when can we leave. we're responding in a difficult and understandable way in the arab winner bahrain, in yemen and syria. so our prestige --
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>> our prestige and power is way down. what history teaches us, when the united states preside over break throughs, the problem is much too promised land, our street credit was actually up. we dem on straighted both in war making and peacemaking, kissinger, carter and baker, the three, that we could actually succeed. right now, we're stuck, stuck in a region we can't fix or stuck in a region which we cannot extricate ourselves. they had news for great power. >> it sounds like bad news the way you're saying it. there's an article which quoted the administration official saying the policy right now would lead from behind. what does that mean, lead from behind? >> i don't know the exact context. >> talking about libya and elsewhere. >> but the real issue is this. we have a disjuncture between our needs and goals in the region. we're not dealing with events in one country. we're dealing with events over a
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vast region that may be unfolding over a number of year, we have to find a way to have a sustainable policy. therefore if we push too hard. if we remove governments, much as happened. we'll own it afterwards. you have to do the state building, which has not been easy or cheap for us, therefore there is a sense we need to telegraph -- >> is right now the net positive -- net result positive, negative or is the jury still out in the middle east in that region? >> i think the jury is still out. many people assume this is a short run, very quick, very painless set of events that end up with a much better middle east after that. now we're looking at a multi year process that doesn't have a clear end. if anybody thought we would be done with the middle east quickly and go to china and india, we'll be busy with this issue for some time. >> gentlemen, thank you very much indeed. stay with us, we're live in the
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with xerox, you're ready for real business. we were just speaking about the arab spring and well before that uprising, there was the fall of the iron curtain, ending communism in eastern europe and that, of course, was in 1989. it was a cause dear to pope john paul ii and this was the scene at the vatican, st. peter's square this morning where hundreds of thousands of pilgrims on hand as john paul moves one step closer sainthood. david wright is there now. david. >> reporter: good morning, christiane, last time all of these people were there to honor pope john pahl. you remember, they were all chanting, santos, "saint pood now" he's not a saint yet.
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but moved closer -- this church took 478 years to beatify joan of arc. for john paul ii six years in pretty super. six years passed since the last gathering in st. peters square to honor pope john paul. six years since his coffin was closed and placed in the crypt in the basilica. workers removed it from the marble tomb and with cardinals as the foreman they placed it in front of st. peter. today the closed cassette is in front of the altar where he lay in state six years ago. both pope benedict and cardinals were the first to pay their respect. in life, he was a towering figure, not just for the church, but on the world stage. in death, there everybody questions about his stewardship
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of an institution rocked by internal divisions and by scandal. he inspire the revolution that ultimately forced the collapse of communism. shortly after election, the young pope exhorted to his fellow poles, do not be afraid. he gave them courage to rise up said lech what len za. soviet leader mikhail gorbachev said the collapse of the iron curtain would have been impossible without john paul. >> the people shouting santos" some people are saying "hold the halo." >> same people saying "hold the halo" now are the same that would say it five years ago. >> his name will forever be
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blessed, pope benedict proclaimed in today's beatification mass. that moment, an enormous tapestry unfur rowed. bless pope john paul. >> to declare a person blessed or beatified means they nr heaven. it's a statement by the church, recognition of heroic virtue of sangty tilt, saying this person is with good. >> investigators pored over his life looking not just example of world peace but his life both public and private. and after his assassination attempt, pope john paul was critically wounded. later he sat down with the man who shot him and offered forgiveness. >> one of the most hero exacts of virtue is forgiveness. to forgive someone who tried to kill you and almost did, it
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doesn't get much more powerful than that. >> under the vatican process, heroic vir tours are not enough. >> for beatification, the church requires a physical miracle, or some reality that can be measured. this french nun said she was secured of parkinson's disease after she prayed to the late people and today she carried a relic of john paul, a vial of his blood extracted during his long illness. but there are also detractors. >> so you're not a big fan of santos subito in this case? >> no, i have many reservations. >> joe said the speed of his fast-track sainthood is an insult to the victims of sexual abuse. >> i guarantee you that the
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argument be made that these issues are settled or almost settled because we debeatified john paul. >> cardinal wheryl said it's a sanctity. >> everybody on this planet recognized that this man. john paul, was a man of god. he had a close relationship with god, and the church is simply recognizing, officially wants everybody in their harryies hearts. people have been pointing out that the fast track to sainthood is one of the more democratic things in an institution that is almost define tifbly top down. keep in mind the bishops and cardinals chanting "san subito
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clue now what remains is another miracle and we're waiting for that before he becomes a saint. >> thanks. we'll have more in a moment. ♪ [ male announcer ] doctors have been saying it forever. let's take a look. but they've never actually been able to do it like this. let's take a look. v-scan from ge healthcare. a pocket sized imaging device that will help change the way doctors see patients. that's better health for more people.
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the best birthday ever. go ahead, world. unlimit yourself. sprint. america's favorite 4g network. trouble hearing on the phone? visit it's been a costly week in iraq and afghanistan. the pentagon released the names of 25 service members killed in the past week.
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♪ that's it for our program. join me to continue the conversation on twitter and on
9:58 am and be sure to tune in for "world news tonight." we leave you now with the scene in st. peters square today as the late john paul ii was beati beatified, bringing him one step closer sainthood. thank you for watching and we hope to see you again next week.
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