mcveigh bomb the oil for tomorrow federal building in oklahoma city and then people say well you know. religion was an ideology there actually it was his coconspirator terry nichols was a self professed member of the christian identity movement and so why is it that one minority group in america is placed with collective guilt more than any other demographic group in america if we're going to ask people to apologize for the acts of a few then we should ask everyone to apologise for the acts of a few but that's ridiculous because that's a complete un-american principle and like you said before i keep going back to this proverbial boogie man i mean every generation has their own and really necessitates this perpetual war is i mean you need this proverbial program for people to be scared have to dehumanize the enemy to allow these wars to continue it really is just a vicious cycle and unfortunately what accompanies all of this is the extreme discrimination the incitement of violence and racial profiling as you said a saudi national which is odd that they call them that any apprehended in

mcveigh revealed that his decision to bomb the murder of building was in retaliation to the federal raid on waco mcveigh was later sentenced to death by lethal injection here's a caucasian male so if there's anything that we can take away from this week's unfolding drama bloody history it's that terror has no nationality race or religion i was pretty upset. a little more of. her she let me feel like. i missed this week's tragic mayhem when news story has slipped under the radar like i have profound implications for american citizens i'm talking about the house passing the cyber intelligent cherian protection act yes this is the same bill that was first introduced back in november of two thousand and eleven and while it passed in the house and then it was prevented from being passed in the senate it was a huge victory at the time for civil liberties activists who claim that the bill was an infringement on privacy and open the door for corporations to share private data with the government less than a year later everyone thought this bill was dead and buried and headed for reared its

the allowable amount of ammonium nitrate the same material timothy mcveigh used to blow up the alfred p. murrah building in oklahoma city its management never notified the department of homeland security. just two years ago west fertilizer companies ownership reported to the environmental protection agency that there was quote no risk of fire at their west texas strapped occupational safety and health administration last inspected the facility in one thousand nine hundred five and although mobil state and federal agencies cited the plant for various safety problems in recent years it remained open a time bomb waiting to blow up but here's the worst part of the story according to sunlight foundation the agricultural retailers association and the fertilizer institute lobbying groups they represent companies like west fertilizer have spent two point nine million dollars and fourteen point four million dollars respectively over the past fifteen years begging congress to gut fertilizer factory regulations the disaster in texas should be a wake up call to all of us of the importance of fact

timothy mcveigh last person executed. >> 2001. >> bill:. the crime was 1995, the trial was 1997, pretty fast and in that case, he rode that truck in 168 people, eight federal officials killed. he was gone. his accomplice. >> bill: terry nichols was a friend of mcveighs. what was the incident between mcveigh did and nicholss did? >> very simple. mcveigh was the one that took that reyder truck and detonated it. >> bill: they were the hands on guys. nichols, life in prison. >> life in prison in colorado. >> bill: that is where the big super max prison. here in new york, a guy drove a truck full of explosives. you remember the guy. >> that was may 1st, 2010. he was a naturalized american citizen but originally from pakistan. this individual pled guilty, ten counts. is also doing life without possibility of parole. he was able to avoid the death penalty. >> bill: where is he. >> kimberly: he is stated penitentiary, florence, colorado. >> bill: he is in the federal pen. >> knock also on you mean. >> bill: i'm sorry. is he where nichols is. >> sam

timothy mcveigh did it with the oklahoma bombing. if it says it is wrong that city has been rocked in a way new york city was rocked. i believe we are going to see swift justice here. all of those factors you mentioned has to do with the death penalty phase. they don't have to do with his liability did he do this or didn't he do this? i think it will be shown rather easily he did do this. we have video, audio all of this technical stuff. dna scientific stuff. it's not if he did it, it's what should be punishment be? >> in the rel of possibilities it is unanimous. if he gets life in prison without paw tlooels not exactly a gift for a 19-year-old to spend federal life without parole on a case like this he would wind up in marion, illinois in the 20 story under ground in solitary confinement. let me tell you something, that is a vicious way to spend the rest of your life when you are 19 years old. >> some are arguing he might prefer the death penalty, try to martyr himself or try to get out of spending life in prison. >> rationally thin

timothy mcveigh chose april 19th for the date of his attack on the murrah building it was two years after another notorious day in american history. mcveigh was angry about the violent ending to a standoff between federal law officers and a group in texas. the dramatic story of what happened in that religious compound is up next. they present witness to waco. >>> a large fire has broken out among the compound buildings. branch da individualian compound. >> april 19th 1993. a violent standoff between a religious sect and the federal government comes to a fiery end. >> live together or die together that was my attitude. >> all yas are on david koresh the group's prophet. the government portrays him as a dangerous cult leader. >> all he is is a cheap thug that interprets the bible through the barrel of a gun. >> if you don't follow the truth, you're going to hell! >> to his followers, he is the final messenger. >> every time you rebelled against vernon we were rebelling against god. >> nearly two decades after the blaze, questions about what really happened at waco remain. >> the team believ

you would never see this reaction if this was a timothy mcveigh character or the white supremacist who walked into the sikh temple and shoot a number of sikh people. but when it's muslims, a minority, a person of color, or any combination, you see a very bigoted reaction and i think it says a lot about where we are as a country. >> michael: david sirota is coming to us from denver. thanks so much. up next the president has all 20 female senators to the white house for dinner last night. and while i applaud his gesture, my question is how do we get more seats at the table. we'll talk to christine pelosi about that. she's up next, literally. ♪ (vo) from the underworld, to the world of privilege. >> everyone in michael jackson's life was out to use him. (vo) no one brings you more documentaries that are real, gripping, current. very, very excited about that and very proud of that. >>beltway politics from inside the loop. >>we tackle the big issues here in our nation's capital, around the country and around the >>dc columnist and four time emmy winner bill press opens current's morning n

that's actually three times the amount of the same explosive that timothy mcveigh used in oklahoma city. here is a person just with a little bit of education, internet, books, magazines, he was able to actually create a more sophisticated device than these were. >> that's fast nating. at least a dozen people lost limbs in the boston bombing. up next, we're going to talk about the uphill battle they face. we're going to talk to a man who lost both his legs and dedicates his life to helping fellow amputees. >>> you probably heard the expression boston strong in the last week. that's what boston strong is all about. haslett-davis is one woman who truly represents that phrase. she's a dancer. she lost her foot and part of the her lower leg in the bombing. thankfully her husband was not injured as severely. i went to their hospital room to talk to them. >> i was -- i woke up and my parents were there and i hugged them and kissed them and i said mom, can you help me? i feel like my foot is falling asleep because it feels like my ankle is falling off the pillow. i realize now that was phantom

mcveigh. he had the land record for crime to death penalty because liberals decided to portray him as a conservative although he was an atheist and a big pot smoker. more like bill maher than my politics. here they are defending him. they talked about how it was the older brother and calling him a boy and this network was calling him a gentleman. >> i don't think you will get that. right now you you have people running in a race and little children there and put the bag next to the little 8-year-old boy. his face will come up in the trial. the little kids with their legs blown off. people running the race for one reason, for people -- they have reasons for running. >> unemployment' telling you left is lobbying to keep this guy from getting the death penalty. change the channel from fox and you will see. >> geraldo: the only way he doesn't the get the death penalty is if he rolls completely and gives up a terror cell and tracks it and becomes essentially an informant. >> i hope. >> robert mcfad

mcveigh. he had the land record for crime to death penalty because liberals decided to portray him as a conservative although he was an atheist and a big pot smoker. more like bill maher than my politics. here they are defending him. they talked about how it was the older brother and calling him a boy and this network was calling him a gentleman. >> i don't think you will get that. right now you you have people running in a race and little children there and put the bag next to the little 8-year-old boy. his face will come up in the trial. the little kids with their legs blown off. people running the race for one reason, for people -- they have reasons for running. >> unemployment' telling you left is lobbying to keep this guy from getting the death penalty. change the channel from fox and you will see. >> geraldo: the only way he doesn't the get the death penalty is if he rolls completely and gives up a terror cell and tracks it and becomes essentially an informant. >> i hope. >> robert mcfad

the most recent charge of this kind was with timothy mcveigh. but we've had bombes by pakistani terrorist who was charged with designating a weapon of mass destruction and that led to life in prison. >> john: this brings new elements to us. not being a lawyer, the miranda exception to be used on the suspect only if a terror threat seems emanant. can you explain how that works and has that been tested in court before? >> sure, the public safety exemption to miranda allows the fbi to interrogate without mirandaizeing them an without council. this helps them to determine whether or not there is anyone else in the support structure as tim clemente discussed earlier, if there are any support structure and it does present a potential problem a potential evidentiary problem for prosecution at trial in so far a federal judge could decide certain evidence is not admissible in court. but when you look at the massive amount of evidence that has been amassed in this case it's unlikely that they would not be able to get a conviction. it makes sense that they

there was a woman who wanted to marry timothy mcveigh. james holmes has a suitor now. stop it! we're goofing around a little bit about it because it's so crazy but he killed an eight-year-old kid, a woman and a cop, and now the free dzhokhar tsarnaev movement? >> the best of social media in the wake of this bombing was people questioning and thinking is this true? do we think the guys are muslim? do we think it happened here? but you have to be just as skeptical of the conspiracy theories if not extra more. >> cenk: u block everybody. when we come back, an old associate of bill clinton with a very interesting new movie about gay rights. we'll be right back. very, very excited about that and very proud of that. >>beltway politics from inside the loop. >>we tackle the big issues here in our nation's capital, around the country and around the globe. >>dc columnist and four time emmy winner bill press opens current's morning news block. >>we'll do our best to carry the flag from 6 to 9 every morning. this show is about analyzing criticizing, and holding policy to the fire. are you

they traced it to a rental company, and luckily timothy mcveigh had already been in custody because he was driving out a license plate. good investigative work connected the dots and caught him but it could have been they investigated the middle eastern. >> michael: there was a john doe number one and a john doe number two. and the john doe was a a complete sketch. and it ended up not being that. talk me about the event that was evocative of in event history. >> i believe it's evocative of the atlanta olympics bombing similar scope. and i'm not a weapons' expert or bombing expert, but my recollection is that the size of the weapon was similar. the scope of the damage was similar and it was focused on a sporting event and it did not seem to be tarted at infrastructure but at hurting people. >> michael: this was not tearing down an icon, abouts tan iconic moment but it was not hurting a building or monument. >> it doesn't look like it at this stage. >> michael: examining, jack, is so important but also how we as a people look at other people. so i think everybody has their presupposition

like timothy mcveigh and mcnichols. nichols was there as a conspirator. he got life and mcveigh got death. here the two brothers are doing it together. they are delivering bombs together. they are equally as culpable. certainly the argument can be made that the little brother was influenced by the big brother, but he was there. i don't see if they don't get the death penalty unless there is so much more can give hem them. >> if he can cooperate and much larger conspiracy then they may take it off the case. the other point i would repeat it may turn out he was under like bengali influence on his brother. >> megyn: i want to talk about that. and we'll talk about whether it's going to work, next. it doesn't matter where a good idea comes from, it only matters that it shows up and makes things better. in that spirit, verizon is proud to announce the powerful answers award. 10 million dollars in prizes for the best ideas. ideas so big, they have the power to change everything. whether it's our inspiration, or yours, the world's biggest challenges deserve even

timothy mcveigh was a terrorist. adam lanza was a terrorist. they were christians. >> bill o'reilly is using this text to condemn muslims in general. listen. >> it's all about motivation and it is about a specific group. most muslims on this earth are good people. but they are not helping to neutralize the jihad. they are not standing up against it in any numbers. and that includes american muslims. >> first of all, what do you mean they are not standing up? they were the ones that turned in the guys that were just arrested this week in canada. they were the ones that shouted down the older suspect and told him if he kept talking like that, he would not be allowed in the mosque. it's an outright lie. there have been any number of islamic leaders and lay people that have helped and turned in terrorists and congressman, i think we need to be outraged by seeing people just blanketed by people that are irresponsible and just want to take cheap shots for reasons that are beyond me at this time and period in our history. >> reverend, i agree with you

timothy mcveigh was an army veteran. cenk: it makes sense a veteran would know the i.e.d.'s better than a citizen. doesn't mean all veterans are guilty, as all muslims are not guilty when there's a muslim bomber. >> crazy trumps veteran all day. you add a dash of what brother mankiewicz was saying, it's obviously the act of a crazy it's insane, what's happened. i think the political message the political statement whatever it may be, executed by a veteran exvet again, this is all speculation, it becomes perverted, and you lose the veteran association is my point quickly. talking skill around weaponry, it's not your main. >> i get, i was speculating at home last night. i like that we've cached owl this as speculation, because that's what it is, but it remind of a debate we had for years when we started doing "the young turks." i would quote jack jermon. he was that reporter for the baltimore sun. he was very comfortable, one of the fee people in this world of the 24 hour news cycle with the need to have an opinion a strong opinion. he would go i don't know. i don't know, the

timothy mcveigh, a sense of justice having been accomplished. judge, please stay with us. >> you bet. >> mike: did the bombing suspect's older brother lure him to participate in this week's attacks? could that hurt our chances for his conviction. we'll be back with the judge i >> mike: dzhokhar tsarnaev has been portrayed as a nice guy, somebody that wouldn't hurt a fly, even a follower of his demanding older brother. is he being portrayed as a victim before he even gets to trial. we're back with judge andrew napolitano. judge, you expect the defense will say, it wasn't his fault, he was just a kid, his brother duped him into it. is that going to be effective given the heinous nature of the crime? >> i do expect the defense would say -- it's called a defense of diminished capacity, yeah, he did this, but wasn't of clear mind when he did it, led along by somebody else, somebody else was actually controlling his will, not in a zombie-like way, but because of his relationship to his brother. will it work? depends on the jury. if it does work, it wo

look at what timothy mcveigh used, diesel fuel and fertilizer. there is nothing we can do to keep these sort of weapons out of hands of people. look at what is taking place in west, texas right now. one of the large explosions in america and it was a fertilizer storage plant. that is one of the serious problems face. also, will we get back to the biocide of it, the pathogens are available and the equipment you need to make a weapon now you can buy on the internet completely legally. i do not care if we're talking about bombs or buy weapons, they are available. weapons, theyal are available. host: the department of homeland security bulletins in 2004 and in 2010 outlining their frequent use in afghanistan and india, nepal, and pakistan. while not commonly deployed in the u.s., one of the devices recovered in the attempted car bombing in york city's times square inc. a pressure cooker along with fireworks according to the 2010 dhs bulletin. we have had warnings of this before. guest: absolutely. but how many people by pressure cookers? very very co

. >> look what happened to timothy mcveigh case, he is last person put to death under federal law. it's going to be a federal death penalty case. >> neil: what is the distinction that there is a foreign connection then? what is the difference that there is a clear foreign connection, a chechen connection. if there is? >> if there is, that is one of the reasons why they want to talk to this young man and why they are invoking this public safety exception and interrogate without reading his miranda warnings and advising him of his rights. >> neil: attorneysre trying to rush to represent him, they will try to barge into that hospital room and say don't talk to anybody? >> he is under heavy guar right now. they are already there. we really don't know the update on his condition. they have every right to do that. i don't see the push to press charges, i don't understand the push for that. once he is taken to arraignment he will be assigned an attorney or possibly there could be hospital arraignment. he could be arraigned in his hospital bed. at that point, she going to be assigned an at

take timothy mcveigh. and he blew up that place, what did we do? we said, you cannot get that much fertilizer anywhere without the government knowing about it. the same thing with ford -- pharmaceuticals. they went out and made sure that you could not get that stuff no more. here you look at the news and every day, every day, people are dying, children are dying. here in chattanooga, we had a 15-year-old take a gun and shoot a 17-year-old in the head. you want to say gun control. how did that happen? who controlled it? no control over guns whatsoever in this country. host: let's look at a comment from dave on twitter -- roger, des moines, an independent caller. welcome, roger. caller: how are you today? host: good how are you? caller: good. seeing a couple of comments on inr program, the gun buyer connecticut had 500 violations and did not get caught until after the shooting. why wasn't it closed before? ,umber two, fast and furious federal employees broke every local, state, federal, and international law. when you have a guest here on this, would

joining me now is beth wilkinson, former prosecutor, who helped accepted timothy mcveigh to the death penalty. thanks for joining us. why does the miranda issue matter? >> it really matters on whether there will be able to determine if there is other further threats and whether there will be able to prosecute him in federal court. and as soon as they mirandize him and give him the right to a lawyer, they know they can use those statements against him in court. if they don't do that, they will have a very tough time using any evidence they collect from him before that time against him in a federal courtroom. >> put yourself in the shoes of the obama administration. they want to know as much as they can about how this happened so as to not make -- make sure it doesn't happen again. if he lawyers up, if he is read his miranda rights, he probably will be advised not to cooperate and not to say anything. isn't it just to play devil's advocate in the best interests of the nation to withhold on doing that for a second and gets a much information as they can? >> well, it's a very tough decisi

mcveigh. he had the land record for crime to death penalty because liberals decided to portray him as a conservative although he was an atheist and a big pot smoker. more like bill maher than my politics. here they are defending him. they talked about how it was the older brother and calling him a boy and this network was calling him a gentleman. >> i don't think you will get that. right now you you have people running in a race and little children there and put the bag next to the little 8-year-old boy. his face will come up in the trial. the little kids with their legs blown off. people running the race for one reason, for people -- they have reasons for running. >> unemployment' telling you left is lobbying to keep this guy from getting the death penalty. change the channel from fox and you will see. >> geraldo: the only way he doesn't the get the death penalty is if he rolls completely and gives up a terror cell and tracks it and becomes essentially an informant. >> i hope. >> robert mcfad

timothy mcveigh was not a christian terrorist. he did not commit his heinous acts based on christian ideology. he rejected formal christianity. people alone in islam -- >> let me ask you. some people think that those in the main stream media, perhaps those left leaning are shying away from the notion that islam and religion played a role in the radicalization of these suspects. do you not agree with that? >> i think that occasionally you hear voices like that. but i think that your network, for instance, has done a pretty good job. one of the reasons for that is because the family making it so easy. when you have the mother of the year it makes it easy to make the association. >> let me bring in jane hall. back to the core question. why are some hosts and some pundits on the war path over this boston tragedy? >> i think that fox is practically waging a campaign to link the words radical and islam. i don't think radical islam is a religion. i think what happens can be a proversion of what i understand from religion. i don't think t

carrying weapons of mass destruction whereas other people would get different charges like timothy mcveigh did for his bomb making and because of his background maybe there was a lot of or there were a lot of arguments leading out first reading his rights. then to charging him as a enemy combatant or as a u.s. citizen and now all the arguments about his rights and interrogation. i mean where is the legal system in all of this well the legal system should never put up with that i mean i think most people most reasoned people would knew that he should be mirandized and maybe there was a small window during which they could ask him about immediate public safety concerns but that was it and then they needed to mirandize him and read him his rights in terms of trying to call him an enemy combatant that is specifically so they would not have to mirandize him and we've seen that in other cases with who's a. where they initially called him an enemy combatant and he didn't get to see a lawyer for three and a half years so all along there's been this effort to treat him differently than we would an

ammonium nitrate can become a powerful explosive and what the bomber timothy mcveigh used to kill 168 people. there's no connection but the point is fertilizer is a dangerous substance. texas regulators knew they had 12,000 gallon tanks of the ammonia and due to a controlled fire from the fertilizer plant. the dallas news is reporting the plant told the environmental protection agency and local officials it did not present a risk of fire or explosion and worst case scenario would be a 10 minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or in injure no one. records from the occupational safety administration shows the last inspection of the west fertilizer plant happened in 1985, for a few violations osha considered serious, the company was find, wait for it. $30. 28 years seems like a very long time for osha inspections for a risky workplace. while the number of inspectors has grown under the obama administration, osha just has 2400 inspectors for 8 million work sites. roughly one inspector per 60,000 worke workers. we talked last night about f fatalities from terrorism and gun deaths an

when we look at timothy mcveigh, he had white supremacist ideas. but that's not a terrorist. >> they had become islamic fundamentalists. a previous guest started talking about this. i said it was very interesting. he said we're looking at the changing face of terrorism. terrorists no longer claim responsibility for things and that really try to go under the radar as much as possible. what do you think of that? >> i think we're overexaggerating psychopathic ways of thinking. some people wonder why i'm doing this show today because i took a stand back in aurora not to take -- when we use their names. i believe in a way media is radicalizing these guys, inspiring them to commit crimes and they get a lot of attention. aurora pushed connecticut, connecticut pushed this. that's something we have to worry about. >> i have to disagree with you there. >> media is huge in the promotion of -- >> i don't think we had a hand in in whatsoever. pat brown, thanks a lot, criminal profiler. >>> moving on, you heard shepherd smith ask a question live during the press

seemed to also admire timothy mcveigh. he tried to build a bomb. he almost killed himself in 2011. that's the other other example i can think of for somebody who tried to go it alen without training and it almost killed him. >> i know you also think there must have been some sort of overseas or some level of training or bomb testing to take place. i talked to tom fuentes, the former assistant director of the fbi earlier today. he was saying he thought it could be done on the internet. he used the example of the toronto 18. he said somebody involved in that plot claimed they got information over the internet in a home study program and actually tested a device in their own home. do you buy that? >> no, not at all. i've spent 30 years dealing with explosives. i'm still scared of them. i wouldn't touch them without someone standing over my shoulder. i don't know how they got detonators. that's sort of key. diddic that use cell phones for secondary power sources? i could go on and on and on, and the chances of you and i going the the store and coming home and assembling these things an

. >>> before we get to boston, how did you end up being timothy mcveigh's lawyer? remind our viewers about that. >> i was appointed by the federal court in oklahoma city. susan notto, the public defender, recused herself, because her office had been heavily damaged. the federal judges asked me if i would do it, and i took it that i should. that was my responsibility, so i became his lawyer. >> in fact, you had to protect yourself, didn't you, your family as well? this certainly wasn't a popular -- >> it wasn't popular in oklahoma and elsewhere. the judges provided security for me and my family, so we were able to do our job without interference or problem. >> there's got to be a toll, though, stephen, that comes to being in the spotlight with defending those who are accused of terrorist acts. talk about that. >> well, i -- i think that's right. i would say probably the greatest thing i noticed was i put my emotional life on hold for 2 1/2 years, the carnage was so agreed, the pressure and scrutiny so intense, that it really was difficult to do anything else, but ju

timothy mcveigh acted in part because of what happened in waco. one more quick note about the timing. yesterday was tax day for everyone in this country but here in boston it was patriots day which commemorates the battles of lexington and concord, the start of the u.s. revolutionary war. big day not only for the country but boston. >> what was supposed to be a celebration turned out differently. let's go back to new york and savannah. >> matt on monday evening president obama spoke about this tragedy offering his thoughts and prayers to the city and vowing justice to those involved. i happened to sit down with him shortly before these explosions and we talked about a number of things in the headlines. we began with the gun legislation before congress that many say is now hanging by a thread. >> i think we've got a good chance of seeing it pass if members of congress are listening to the american people so let's just take the example of background checks. 90% of americans think that we should make it tougher for criminals or people with serious me

federal building was bombed by timothy mcveigh. as you can see, well it looks good, police are going inside that truck to check it out. and if you don't admire police officers and bomb squad members, you should right now, they had no ideas what was in that truck. they're checking it out. they don't appear to be overly concerned. the city office buildings are evacuated as a precaution. security has been heightened in all venues where a lot of people are involved. let's go to boston, because there has been a major break in the investigation. good morning. >> good morning, carol, thank you. i'm jon berman with brook here in boston. we're just a couple blocks away. investigators are searching the scene all night. >> yes, you see behind us it's the medical tent. and unfortunately so there were so many doctors and that's where so. people were initially treated. we're yards from where the explosion took place for the monday marathon. it's important to talk about these new clues and pictures that we're now seeing. it is giving us a whole n

iate am joined by the former lead defense attorney for oklahoma city bomber timothy mcveigh. with all of the evidence in this case and we talked about the video evidence and forensic evidence, where do you start if you are one of the public defenders in defending dzhokhar tsarnaev? >> i am hesitant to comment on what another lawyer is doing. i suppose they would start first by trying to get as much of the evidence understood, the factual development, establish a report with their client. at this time with him in the hospital and given his medical condition they probably are relying upon the complaint and affidavit itself and whatever the media has reported on this case. >> there is a ton of evidence. i don't think they will be at a loss of stuff to keep them busy. let's talk about strategy here. do you think that because he is the younger brother and there has been talk about how he was influenced by the older brother that that could play into this? >> it could. i mean, i don't know the case like the public defender. they are very professional and often the elite of the crimi

certainly timothy mcveigh, the unabomber, those are names that come to mind right away. what they were using were what would be today turned 88. the difference is that these days you or i or anybody in the studios are your studios in new york. in the course of just a few hours, you can get on the web, find the information that we would want to be able to build our own ied in our house, and our basement, in our garage, find a way to put a dent -- detonating mechanism to get a command we could be at using it within just a matter of days. my concern is the availability means that a lot of people who have bad ideas, bad thoughts, want to do bad things may end the shift from simply using guns to trying to use ieds such as the case in boston. neil: and certainly in oklahoma city, that was a big ied. the case in boston, what appear to be much smaller, but very deadly obviously. so if you are looking at the method of attack, that is one that is readily accessible. if you are right about finding the details how to build one on the internet, readily buildable. how do we guard agai

not if you are timothy mcveigh and not if you are these guys. we shouldn't use this as pivot point to discuss serious policy discussions. the drone debate we have been having for a little while. rand paul was right to race question about it we can continue to have that debate. this should not be the pivot point. >> you are making a comparison between what happened in boston to afghanistan, to drones? is that what you are doing, lady? juan, president obama has not used the term muslim terrorism in the whole boston incident. hasn't used it. >> well, we don't know that. >> yes we do. >> muslim terrorism. most chechens are not muslims. >> yes they are. >> bill: yes they are. any of the reportage about the guy on social media putting all of this stuff about jihad on there? don't you know that juan? >> no. i know that but i'm saying, look. >> what do you think it is? i don't know if it's muslim terrorism. >> it's terrorism. i don't care where it came from. >> you have to care. if it came from ireland. >> you shouldn't leap and i shouldn't leap muslims

timothy mcveigh, a sense of justice having been accomplished. judge, please stay with us. >> you bet. >> mike: did the bombing suspect's older brother lure him to participate in this week's attacks? could that hurt our chances for his conviction. we'll be back with the judge in just a moment. the age old question. what do women want? this is kate. she likes a man with a little hair on his chest. but definitely not on his back. this is hannah. she likes a guy with a smooth stomach to show off his six-pack. [ ding! ] and this is genesis. she likes men completely hairless and, no, she doesn't think that's weird. i don't. the proglide styler. trim, shave and edge. the one tool you need to get the look she wants. the night is yours. gillette. the best a man can get. >> mike: dzhokhar tsarnaev has been portrayed as a nice guy, somebody that wouldn't hurt a fly, even a follower of his demanding older brother. is he being portrayed as a victim before he even gets to trial. we're back with judge andrew napolitano. judge, you expect the defense will say,

look how quickly they traced down timothy mcveigh. one of the things we're best at in the united states is the forensics that took place after one of these attacks which is why whenever last bomb attack like mumbai or whatever, they request these f.b.i. experts to go over there and do it. i was very positive that we would find so much evidence and there's and then combining that with the eyewitnesses and combining it with the videos that we resolve this rather quickly and also, looking that make a good court it thi to care them, but you also have to make your case in court. that's where the forensics come in. host: let's hear from kenny who is joining us from indiana, republican. hi, kenny. caller: hi. how are you today? host: good. caller: i want to add a question. earlier, i watched the immigration interview earlier and i was waiting for colonel larson, by the way, thank you for your service. you call it knee-jerk reaction from what happened this week and last night. i was face-to-face with a young man who was muslim and he consider

timothy mcveigh, a sense of justice having been accomplished. judge, please stay with us. >> you bet. >> mike: did the bombing suspect's older brother lure him to participate in this week's attacks? could that hurt our chances for his conviction. [ male announcer ] why is kellogg's crunchy nut so delicious? because every flake is double-toasted... splashed with sweet honey... and covered in rich double-roasted peanuts. mmm. [ hero ] yummy. [ male announcer ] kellogg's crunchy nut. it's super delicious! redesigned site has this new score planner tool with these cool sliders. this one lets us know what happens if we miss a payment. oh. this one lets us know what happens if we use less credit. yeah. what's this one do? i dunno. glad nothing weird happened. right? score planner is free to everyone. free score applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com guacamole slider still in beta. well, dad, i spent my childhood living with monks learning the art of dealmaking. you've mastered monkey-style kung fu? no. priceline is different now. you don't eve

eric rudolph, timothy mcveigh, fizal shahzad, these two brothers in boston, abortion clinic bombers? we rounded them up in many waves. who is getting away with this? they think they can but the united states government has taken agents like atf and fbi over the last 60 years and taken bomb squads and we've become unbelievable experts at investigating these things. it's the worst thing to do because we are pretty good at catching the people. now when you have the digital age, iphones, crowds, surveillance, that is helpful, too. of course, they're very difficult cases on their face and that is why there is so much resources put into it by the government. >> if dzhokhar tsarnaev is telling authorities the truth that he and his brother got bomb making instructions online maybe in part from al qaeda's online magazine "inspire" i looked at the specific instructions there and i can't boil an egg but i think if i worked at it long enough i might be able to follow those instructions if i wanted to. do the people who follow those kinds of instructions who haven't been expertly trained, do they

if you were to look at james holmes or timothy mcveigh, you would have to say well, how would you make a distinction between these two? these are americans on american soil who committed even more horrific acts in terms of the number of debts -- depths that occurred as a result of their terrorist activity. you would have to make assumptions about the link to chechnya and muslim radical islam and all the rest. as a matter of law, i think he had they had the public safety exemption under miranda that could have allowed them 48 hours or movement more. i'm hoping they made informed decision about what they did here. >> i think this have really in keeping with what we have seen from the administration the past four years. they really believe that the criminal justice system, not only is the right approach but also is effective and there is some evidence to back that up. the criminal justice system does have a strong record in convicting terrorism. and military tribunals you don't have that option. also an interest on the part of the white house to have this be a speedy process and they feel

in fact, the only other time it's been used since '94 is on timothy mcveigh. and given what i've seen it would be appropriate to use the death penalty in this case and i would hope they would apply it in federal court. >> let me move you both onto immigration. with the one big picture question to you both and that is do you see anything -- we have one suspect now deceased older brother who was a permanent resident. we have another who is a naturalized citizen as of last year. do you see anything in the legal immigration system that you now want to go back and say we need to fix this or that and include it in our bill, senator graham you first? >> well, i want to know how the fbi or the system dropped the ball when he was identified as a potential terrorist. but in terms of immigration, i think now is the time to bring all the 11 million out of the shadows and find out who they are. most of them are here to work, but we may find some terrorists in our midst who have been hiding in the shadows. when it comes to the entry/exit visa system. the 19 hijackers all st

let's ask the man who defended the oklahoma city bomber tim tim bomb tim timothy mcveigh? do you prepare defections rently? >> there are certain aspect ups of the federal law applicable to terrorist type crimes that aren't applicable to routine felonies is such as bank robbery or murder. >> judge jeanine: and do you worry about the danger zone for you or your family? >> i was concerned about that while representing mr. mcveigh but to be frank with you the judge was gracious and concerned about our security and provide the appropriate security for us. and so we didn't worry about it. >> judge jeanine: and what do you think the defense will be in a case like this, where you have got a victim who says he saw the brother laid down the duffle bag. forensic evidence and video images. basically an admission to the guy whose car they carjacked and it goes on and on. i'm sure there is a lot more. how do you defend a case like this? >> well, the defense if the government seeks murder is fairly obvious. it only takes one member of the jury to oppose the death penalty and stand fast a

timothy mcveigh used time fuse. so perhaps there was a timer involved but i think people were careful to say that there was no certainty involved in that, just the evidence indicated that was more likely than a remote control. >> the idea of two people working together as opposed to one individual, so called lone wolf, does that he will sell you anything about motive or that they belong to a group or can you infer anything from that? >> well, i think you can infer a few things from it. certainly two or more people are a group. we don't know that there were only two people involved. there may have been additional people involved. there may be people involved in harboring these folks, et cetera. but a group, yes. and i think that by virtue of the video that we were just looking at -- i was gazing down at while you were showing it, you know, you see -- and i'm glad you used the word behavior. the way they were walking, five meters or so between each other, that's kind of a behavioral profiling technique. if i were walk