i would like to see russell tice, william benny, thomas drake and curt webe testify before congress under oath testify that these programs are unconstitutional and criminal, they have asked to testify and have been ignored by congress. that is exactly the debate that edward snoanld wante -- snowdend to have. that is the conversation that should take place in congress, not being involving the pfizer court, the thousands and thousands of acceptance, it's clearly a rubber-stamp court we need to change that. >>brown: and very briefly mr. mukasey what would you like to see happen? >> i'd like to see happen what happens in the other criminal cares, to have mr. snowden sent back here and have him stand trial. as far as congressional hearings all this material was gathered pursuant to statutes, at the direction of the executive so all three branches of the government were involved in it. >>brown: michael mukasey and daniel ellsberg, thank you all ve. very much. >> ifill: if you wonder what happened to others charged with espionage over the years, our website profiles 11 other notorious leakers. a

whistle blower thomas drake. he went through every proper internal channel. some of your other guests talked about that's what a real whistle blower should do. he did. not only did that not achieve anything but the government turned around and prosecuted him for espionage. to make that worse, the case ended up falling apart because all of the government's evidence was not properly classifieded. it was all completely unclassified. >> when you changed channels to snowden, you have leaks that could fuel this debate about what is the level of privacy versus security? that's arguable. then you are other leaks where he's saying here's how we collect on the chinese. here's how we collect against the russian leadership. here's how we work with the germans. these are the things that, if you were talking to james bruce in the next box, he would say these are the kinds of things that do damage to our ability to collect intelligence against serious adversaries around the globe. do you buy that? >> i don't. i mean, every time... >> why not. because the government puts up

drake who is an nsa official who blew this, ruining his career, that man was now working on an apple center when you take the war on journalism and you look at how he was a former cia operative is in prison right now, josÉ rodriguez, is on a book to her and that says a lot about where we are in this country. to look forward not backward step. in the case of the brothers, money talks. they are incredibly powerful and a nefarious force almost every plot in this country. >> it could be deputy young or anyone. >> it's already. >> yes, you qualify. you think you. [laughter] remapped listening to everything you are talking about and everything you have seen happen in continuing this is wonderful. it is very easy because our political leadership has been sold, the military -- they have a populace that handed over our civil rights with the patriot act and continuing. my question to you is in your work and research, have you been able to donate conclusions include invulnerability in the system and machine. because i don't feel like we can go and i am interested at what your points are. >> ye

drake who have escaped prison time have only done so after months and months of grinding legal battles with examples like this edward snowden search for asylum is all the more understandable our government today is unrelenting to solve and whistleblowers in one nine hundred seventy one daniel ellsberg had every reason to expect that the american criminal justice system would treat him fairly the day edward snowden has almost no reason to expect fair treatment so for him it's venezuela nicaragua and bolivia that look like the shining city on the hill not the united states or anyone who calls themselves a patriot and a believer in open democracy left or right or anywhere in between this should be extremely disturbing because there once was a time when political dissidents looked to the united states as the place of refuge and that time is now long passed for more on those and the fight in the latest fight to create an open society here in the united states i'm joined by amy stepanovich director of the domestic surveillance project at the electronic privacy information center and you welc

drake we are state was imprisoned or powerless now the obama administration is afraid of you is afraid of an informed angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised and it should be. meanwhile in europe der spiegel is publishing this piece about how we've been spying on the europeans the french and the germans today were huffing and puffing quite loudly at both the president and the secretary of state. in my opinion there's a certain amount of what there is gambling here and possibly are going on with the i'm shocked absolutely shocked but curious mail your thoughts on this one i was very disappointed that the republican leadership even if you called it a cheap shot didn't see an opening to just sort of sort of knock this whole thing down a peg but it seems like the leadership both the democratic republic of harness what thing down this whole process surveillance and everything else they could have attacked and they could have. even if it was done for political even it was done for cheap political advantage goldwater would never would never endorse this now it's h

drake we are stateless imprisoned or powerless now the obama administration is afraid of you is afraid of an informed angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised and it should be. meanwhile in europe der spiegel is publishing this piece about how we've been spying on the europeans the french and the germans today were huffing and puffing quite loudly at both the president and the secretary of state in my opinion there's a certain amount of what there is gambling here and possibly are going on with the i'm shocked absolutely shocked but curious know your thoughts on this whole i was very disappointed that the republican leadership even if you called it a cheap shot didn't see an opening to just sort of sort of knock this whole thing down a peg but it seems like the leadership both the democratic republic of arnott's what this whole process of surveillance and everything else they could have acted they could have would be a look at even if it was done for political even it was done for cheap political it very cold water would never would never endorse this now it

drake who have escaped prison time have only done so after months and months of grinding legal battles with examples like this edward snowden search for asylum is all the more understandable our government today is unrelenting to solve and whistleblowers in one nine hundred seventy one daniel ellsberg had every reason to expect that the american criminal justice system would treat him fairly today edward snowden has almost no reason to expect fair treatment so for him it's venezuela nicaragua and bolivia that look like the shining city on the hill not the united states or anyone who calls themselves a patriot and a believer in open democracy left or right or anywhere in between this should be extremely disturbing because there once was a time when political dissidents looked to the united states as the place of refuge and that time is now long passed for more on those and the fight in the latest fight to create an open society here in the united states i'm joined by amy stepanovich director of the domestic surveillance project at the electronic privacy information center and you welcom

drake, was prosecuted for allegedly spying in 2010.. all charges were dropped bar one misdemeanor but drake said no matter what the outcome for snowden, once he's on their radar -- >> your life will never be the same again. they're going to pull out all the stops on him. to all of them. all they are -- to say that they're hey're upset would be an understatement. >> reporter: french and port gonzales portuguese officials said they did not refuse to let that plane cross their airspace. plane it's a certain reminder to ac snowden a flight out of moscow does not necessary willy mean a flight to freedom.nowden >> thank you. shou and the arizona wildfire that claimed 19 firefighters is only 8% contained this morning. the fire has burned 13 square he miles. the investigation is now under way and they will be turning to co one person for answers. the only firefighters to survive survive. carter evans is in prescott, arizona. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. and good morning to our viewers here in the west. we're now learning what might

drake. another nsaer. we are stateless, imprisoned and powerless. this is a very different tone from what snowden was saying a week ago. >> how does the united states think this will play out? >> they don't know. it has a couple of options. russia may decide you can't get out of here you can't stay here. there's an active warrant, we'll hand you over to the united states. from an american standpoint that's ideal. they can decide you're going to country x, they have decided to accept you. good riddance you're on your way, then it becomes between u.s. and country x. may not be ecuador. there is that odd possibility there could be some kind of deal. we give you snowden, you get x. you get get a person. i know the person the russians would really like to have is the infamous arms dealer doing 25 years in marion here but that's a tough deal. what we do is spy to spy trades not accused criminal to accused criminal. >> all right. john miller thank you. >>> president obama is headed back to the u.s.

and a whistleblower who like thomas drake from the n.s.a. tries to exhaust internal mechanisms. you go to the supervisor, inspector general or even to congress. i think snowden skipped all of those steps and wept directly to the public. host: in your role, do you think he is a journalist and should he be protected as a journalist? guest: i don't think he is a journalist. i think he was acting in his capacity -- back in se is coming now on votes on measures debated earlier. 2576, a bill to amend title 49, united states code, to modify requirements relating to the availability of pipeline safety regulatory documents and for other purposes. the speaker pro tempore: the question is will the house suspend the rules and pass the bill. members will record their votes by electronic device. this is a 15-minute vote. [captioning made possible by the national captioning institute, inc., in cooperation with the united states house of representatives. any use of the closed-captioned coverage of the house proceedings for political or commercial purposes is expressly prohibited by the u.s. hou

you'll find thomas jefferson versus alexander hamilton, more recently drake versus chris brown. i suppose honorable mention should be made of tom and jerry. if we use those rivalries as a guidepost, where do you think rand paul versus chris christie comes? >> know, i'm not quite sure. but in terms of -- but i think in terms of come meedic value it ranks way up there just 0 watch tease twos try to slug it out. rand paul he's a very brave man if he's going to go up against christie. as someone who has gone toe to toe in a fight with chris christie, it's not easy. it's one that senator paul's going to lose. >> well, there are actually krystle some important issues here. as governor christie just pointed out, new jersey gets 61 cents for every dollar it gives and mr. powell in kentucky getting $1.51. so on that point, chris christie is right. it's rand paul that's the gimme. >> this is a point missed in our national dialogue all the time. if you look at the top states that are the gimme gimme states from the government, they are almost all red conservative states that claim to want