fauci this morning in an interview with dr. gupta calls that milestone sobering and stunning and dr. fauci has big concerns about the current case level, the rise in new infections but he says a fall slide in hospitalizations and deaths is not inevitable. the advice, follow the data. do what we know works. >> we have to keep that slope coming down and you do that by looking at where you are, in what region of the country, and acting accordingly according to the guide lines. sanjay, that's not rocket science. it is pretty clear. if we warrant to enter the falld winter at a low level we have to act now to do the things that we have been saying. >> 200,000. 200,000 american lives lost is hard to measure. hard to swallow. that's the population of grand rapids, michigan. huntsville, alabama. salt lake city, utah. 200,000 americans lost to the coronavirus. every single one of them a person with a family and listen to the president of the united states last night telling a crowd nobody died who wasn't already at risk. >> it affects el

anthony fauci. but we begin tonight in louisville at this hour, after the grandry decision in bnars, but not in her death. breonna taylor, a louisville emt, was shot dead after officers serving a warrant opened fire. a grand jury weighing charges against the three officers on the scene, indicting one of them. not in her death, indicting the officer on three counts of wanton endangerment in the first degree against now former officer brett hankinson for shooting into taylor's apartment, charged because of the bullets that threatened neighboring tenants. tonight, the lawyer for taylor's family calling the decision outrageous and offensive. you can see protesters there in the streets. the national guard is standing by. there is a curfew in place for the next 72 hours. and abc's alex perez now leading us off from louisville. >> reporter: tonight, outraged protesters taking to the streets of louisville after a grand jury indicted one of the three officers involved in the fatal shooting of breonna taylor.

fauci. let me point out within the scientific community there's tremendous debate, for example, people like dr. atlas from stanford, dr. richard from yale, a lot of folks within science that would disagree with dr. fauci. the president is making optimistic case that we are nearing the end of this, the trends are going to aggressively toward health and this is critical on the issue of supposed discrepancies on your network a few days ago made it clear that he doesn't believe the president was dishonest and let me beprecise and quote him, he said i didn't see any discrepancies, what he told us, what we told him and what he came out and said publicly. again, nobody is going to accuse dr. fauci of being a trump partisan. he said no discrepancies here. chris: in an interview on msnbc on friday he said something different. i find it interesting that sometimes you're citing him as an authority and sometimes you're saying he's wrong. one last question. i have only time for this on the campaign. stev

fauci, thank you so much. dr. fauci: thank you, judy. judy: meantime, throughout this past week, william brangham has beenooking at how other countries built toward universal healthcare coverage, and the trade-offs they've made. those questions have been a part of our presidential campaign season, too. that includes sharply divided views about the affordable care act which expanded coverage for , 20 million americans, but is still not affordable enough for some citizens. conversation about all of this in a momen but let's hear about where the first, presidential candidates stand, with our correspondents, lisa desjardins and yamiche alcindor. lisa: it was the signature legislation of the obama administration, the affordable care act, better known as obamacare. when it was signed into law 10 years ago, then vice president biden celebrated passage, memorably putting it like this. mr. biden: this is a big [beep] deal. lisa the law has been both : incredibly popular with some and controversial with others. among core aspects, it protects amer

fauci said this -- >> take a look at the numbers and make up your own mind. i mean -- you know, you don't need a sound bite from me. take a look at the numbers. >> reporter: the united states has 4% of the world's population and more than 20% of the world's covid-19 related deaths. today, the american medical association, the american hospital association and the american nurses association issued an extraordinary joint statement, saying covid-19 is "affecting americans at a rate that represents a nearly worse-case scenario." but the president is speaking as if the pandemic is a thing of the past. at his rally last night in ohio he said, incorrectly, that the virus only really affects elderly people who are already sick. >> it affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems, if they have other problems. that's what it really affects. that's it. >> reporter: and he said, also incorrectly, young people are basically immune. >> but it affects virtually nobody. it's a -- it's an amazing thing. >> reporter: dr. fauci today said that i

fauci says, "the president is on a separate channel," fauci later told others. "trump's leadership was rudderless." gene robinson, dr. fauci has been very careful but he has said enough that bob woodward, being the reporter that we know he is, was able to pick that up and deliver it and that is, of course, what we have assumed from our distance that dr. fauci thinks about president trump, that he is just rudderless >> yes, because who wouldn't think that, watching the president's response to the pandemic i mean, we saw it unfold in real time, really it's -- what bob does with this book is tell a story that we kind of knew but he really gets inside, which is, you know, i've known bob woodward for 40 years. bob woodward was the local news editor at "the washington post" who hired a young reporter named eugene robinson to cover a mayor named marion barry ions ago. and i have watched him over the years. he is the cleverist, most relentless, most resourceful reporter i've ever known and that's always the problem with a woodward book, and it's certainly the problem wi

fauci reflected all of that unknown. i've talked to him so many times over the years and he says to me, elizabeth, i don't have a crystal ball. that's basically what he's saying here. it's unlikely we'll have it in october, but he wouldn't ever use the word impossible. let's take a listen to what he had to say. >> if you look at the projection of the enrollment and the kinds of things you'll need to get a decision about whether the vaccine is safe and effective, most of us project that that's going to be by november, december, by the end of the year. could this be earlier? sure. so if someone comes out and says, you know, i'm going to shoot for the possibility that i'll get it by october, you can't argue strongly against that. it's unlikely, not impossible. most of the people feel it's going to be november, december. that does not mean that if there are a number of infections within a particular trial that allows you to make a decision sooner rather than later, it is conceivable that you could have it by october. though,

fauci echoing the cdc director's reported complaints about mr. trump's controversial coronavirus advisor dr. scott atlas. we're following the bombshell "new york times" report exposing the president's long hidden tax returns. a short while ago mr. trump ducked questions about the report that shows he spent years avoiding federal income taxes while piling up huge financial losses and debt. first to boris sanchez. the president wanted to talk about rapid covid-19 tests. he did not want to talk about revelations about taxes and finance. >> that's right, jim. the president dodging reporter's questions about that bombshell story in "the new york times" about his tax returns. also not answering questions about the very public dispute about officials in his own administration. dr. scott atlas on hand for this announcement about testing in the rose garden today. not on hand, dr. anthony fauci and cdc director robert redfield both of whom have made statements contradicting the president's repeated claim that the united states is rounding the curve on coro

fauci's interview with sanjay just last hour. i would like to play this in terms of the response to sanjay asking him, you know, do we really know in april if we'll have widespread vaccines available for everyone? here's what dr. fauci said. >> my projection is that it likely would be november and december. it is conceivable that it could be october. i mean, there's no doubt that that could happen. i think more likely it would be november and december, and then at that point if one or more vaccines reaches that critical point then the fda will make their decision and then we could start rolling out the vaccine. >> so october, november, december for maybe a vaccine approval and then how long after that for really rolling it out widely? >> yeah. poppy, i agree 100% with dr. fauci, that, you know, the answer is to trust the science and trust the process. i know that's difficult for people with pandemic fatigue, but the reality is until we identify a safe and effective vaccine through some of the phase three studies which might this

fauci talks about heading into the fall. there is no evidence we'll be prepaured to get that running start. essentially a plateau here. recent pays of 40,000 new infections a day. 20,000 at the gunning of tbegin summer surge. again, averaging about 40,000 cases right now. with that many cases it is hard to pub dosh down the seven-day moving ar moving average to the middle of july, 1,000 americans dying every day of coronavirus. you see across the line right there. one of the reasons it is hard to get that baseline down, 20 states with a positivity rate over 10%. the experts say get it to 5% and shove it down from there. the states are highlighted. some have been in better shape lately but the positivity rate is high, meaning down the road you get more cases. now the help here would be a vaccine. right? put the conversations behind us with a reliable, safe, widely available vaccine. 33 vaccines in how many trials around the world right now, 9 in china, 5 in the united states. germany, russia and united conditioning dom. dr. f

anthony fauci with nbc's andrea mitchell today. andrea mitchell doing a master class interview with him. but there's dr. anthony fauci, the top infectious disease doctor in the u.s. government, delivering the hard truth about how bad this still is. in another part of the interview today, dr. fauci told andrea today that it is going to be, quote, well into 2021, maybe even toward the end of 2021 before we're back to anything approaching normalcy in terms of normal life. and that's a best case scenario with a successful vaccine that works and gets distributed. well into 2021, maybe even towards the end of 2021 with a vaccine. so he's telling us things that are very hard to hear, that are based in reality. but because the president's comments on covid as we approach 200,000 dead are increasingly divorced from reality and therefore harmful, here's dr. fauci having to clean up and correct the president's false statements at an increasing pace. and it is -- it is a very, very valuable public service that he did that finally and that he d

fauci. >> i respect dr. fauci a lot. but dr. fauci is not 100% right. >> in an aggressive campaign to marginalize and discredit him. why is the white house trashing dr. fauci and sending out opposition research like memos to reporters? >> there is no opposition research being dumped to reporters. >> yes, there was. and it got worse, with white house officials attacking fauci with a nasty cartoon and a falsehood filled op-ed in usa today, smear, experts, attempting to shift blame will not stop this pandemic. >> there is nothing magical about the things we need to do. there is testing, tracing, wear ac mask, social distancing d. problem is this has not been an interest on the part of our if egg to lead the country through this crisis. >> testing has increased. but at nowhere near the levels health experts say are needed. even the president's former acting chief of staff mick mulvaney called the testing backlog inexcusable, quote, i know it isn't popular to talk about in some republican circles, but we still have a testing problem

it said that fauci told that to an associate. that is how woodward reports it in his book and he said he doesn't recall. it we have not heart from mattis or dan coats. they held some of the most important jobs in the administration and the things are saying are a damning indictment from of the president. when mattis was saying when he was defense secretary he would go to the national cathedral and pray for the state of the nation under the command of donald trump. saying he was unfit and dangerous to be president and conversations with dan coats, the director of national intelligence about whether or not they should speak out in a collective fashion against the things that the president was saying. there are so many moments in the donald trump presidency, brooke, that are stunning and surprising and remarkable and unlike any other white house that we've covered. but to have the former defense secretary and the former director of national intelligence, two people the president picked to put in that job, saying something like that,

fauci and cdc director dr. robert redfield raised concerns about a controversial doctor who is growing increasingly influential in the white house. i'll speak to a member of the coronavirus task force heading up a testing effort but first alexander field is out front. >> it honestly looks like business as usual. >> reporter: pre-covid florida in a post covid world packed bars and restaurants all weekend in south florida just days after the republican governor ron desantis dropped virtually all coronavirus restrictions. >> i think it is going to have a huge impact. >> reporter: no more fines for people who refuse to wear a mask. the state's new daily case count has been well below the july peak for more than a month but the positivity rate remains over 10%. across the country new cases are on the rise in 21 states. in just the last few days at least seven states saw the highest weekly averages for new cases. with wisconsin recording its highest single day increase over the weekend. >> one of the biggest challeng

that's true, but tony fauci couldn't see that. so by april he was warning even shaking hands could be too dangerous to continue. >> i don't think we should ever shake hands ever again, to be honest withh you. not only would itit be good to prevent coronavirus disease, it probably would decrease the incidence of influenza dramatically in this country. >> tucker: okay, so that's extremism. it's not balancing the cost and the benefit of a recommendation or a mandate. but fauci was totally figuring this out as he went along just like the rest of us were. that's not a sin by the way, everybody does it.er this was new. but he was a useful foil for the democratic party using the media to attack the president, so you weren't allowed to point out some of his recommendations were inconsistent. some were just silly, not all, but some. the so-called progressives whos often confused science for religious dogma wanted to protect him at all costs. jeff bezos' personal newspaper claims that trump and his minions are trying to destroy fauci. destr

fauci is stating the facts. it is notable to see dr. fauci contradicting the president saying, i have to disagree with him on that. and dr. fauci does rely on the facts. he relies on the science. the facts and the science show the president by any metric you consider is wrong when he says the united states is rounding the corner on this. we started this week with the revelation that the president had intentionally misled the american public about the deadliness of this virus. he said that he likes to down play it. what's remarkable is we are finishing this week with the president continuing to do exactly that because the president is saying that we are rounding the corner. he is saying that the numbers of coronavirus cases are plummeting when in fact we know that we are at a plateau of nearly 40,000 cases, nearly a thousand deaths per day. and dr. fauci is warning about a potentially difficult fall and winter. and of course it's also remarkable when you see this rally that the president is holding, 3,000 -- more than 3,000 people huddle

fauci. >> you said it was time to hunker down. because the fall and the winter is not going to be easy. the president says we've rounded the final turn. how do you square those two messages? >> well, you know, i'm sorry but i have to disagree with that. if you look at the thing that you just mentioned, the statistics, andrea, they're disturbing. we're plateauing at around 40,000 cases a day and the deaths are around 1,000. >> that caseload and death rate, an obvious reminder of why these scandals are not just about history about, what trump knew only in february. where does the u.s. go from here in a pandemic could last years? dr. fauci also went further than usual, recounting how trump undercut the medical safety warnings previously, just as trump continues to do today. >> certainly, there were disagreements, as you know, there were times when i was out there telling the american public how difficult this is, how we're having a really serious problem and the president was saying would it disappear and that's not the case. when yo

anthony fauci agreed and said just look at the numbers. with the u.s. now soaring past 200,000 deaths from the coronavirus, white house officials are trying to pull a fast one, insisting the administration has beaten expectations, when the reality is they haven't. what do you say to americans who are outraged over this and blame this administration for so many lives lost in this country? >> well, as you've heard, several doctors in the task force note from this podium, we were looking at the prospect of 2 million people potentially perishing from the coronavirus in this country. >> reporter: but, hold on, that initial forecast of 2 million deaths was based on the administration doing nothing. top health experts like white house coronavirus task force dr. anthony fauci aren't giving the u.s. an a-plus for its response. as mr. trump did this week. >> the idea of 200,000 deaths is really very sobering and in some respects stunning. take a look at the numbers and make up your own mind. i mean, we don't need a sound bite from me. take a look at the numbers.

anthony fauci. dr. fauci, i have a lot of respect for him, and guess what, he is very well respected, especially by democrats on the left. well, guess what? here's what dr. fauci had to say about the pandemic on february 29th, take a look. >> dr. fauci, saturday morning in america, people are waking up with real concerns about this, they want to go to malls and movies, maybe as, as well, should we be changing our habits, and if so, how? >> right now, at this moment, there is no need to change anything you are doing on a day-by-day basis. right now, the risk is still low, but this could change, i've said that many times, even on this program. you've got to watch out because although the risk is low now, you don't need to change anything you're doing. when you start to see community spread, this could change, and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread. >> sean: medical community from all of the models were wrong, china lied to the world, i don't blame dr

anthony fauci. most stunning to read and hear the president acknowledging he was told early on in early february that the virus was a big problem in china. airborne transmission was happening and was far more serious than any flu. what he told woodward about the coronavirus threat and what he was telling the american people in that same period of time are night and day. the gravity of what he was being told compared to the limited actions he took in those early days raise new and profound questions about this president's pandemic mismanagement. cnn obtain and early copy of "rage" and audio recordering woodward made in his 18 conversations with the president. jamie gangel is breaking the news now and here to walk us through the most significant piece of information. jammi jamie, start with early february. little reason to worry, but -- >> remember those from watergate, howard baker. what did the president know and when did he know it? that's what bob woodward lays out in this book. what we know is fr

but tony fauci can it see that. he suggested otherwise peered so by april, he was worried that even shaking hands could be too dangerous. >> i don't think we ever should shake hands ever again to be honest with you. not only would it be good to prevent the coronavirus. it would probably decrease influenza dramatically in this country. >> tucker: okay, so that is extremism. it is not balancing the cost and benefit of a recommendation or mandate. he was figuring this out as he went along, just like the rest of us are. that is not a sin, by the way. everybody does it. this is not new. you weren't allowed to point out some of his recommendations were just silly. not all, but some. the so-called progressives had finally found their leading man and they wanted to protect him at all costs. jithey were trying to destroy h. asking about questions about the mandates that policymakers were destroying him. it is absurd. but dozens of media outlets repeated that talking point. by the time tony fauci described his lockdown, he sa

fauci saying that is highly unlikely. that as a top prosecutor is resigning from the justice department team probing the russia investigation. a report saying that they're being pressured to produce results before the election. is re-election all trump cares about? we'll discuss just ahead. >>> also tonight, wildfires devastating the western part of this country. killing more than two dozen people. at least 100 large fires burning across 12 states scorching more than 4.5 million acres. a lot to report to you this hour. we want to start with our white house correspondent john harwood, senior editor at the atlantic ron brown, amanda carpenter, the former communications director for form former senator ted cruz. john, you're up first. let's talk about dr. fauci's warning we may not get back to our pre-coronavirus lives for another year. the president, though, pretending that the pandemic is, you know, already over. what does the electorate think? >> well, the electorate plainly does not buy it in the main. some people do. if

fauci and dr. burke. he chose not to communicate that and down played it we all have consequences >> when you hear the president's remarks and keeping in mind of the time frame, early february and mid-march when he was talking about his own understanding through his briefings that this is a trans missable virus that you can get it through breathing it is not just the old and it is also young people who are at risk and this is much more serious than the flu when you hear him, it is a world away from what he was saying in public, do you believe he understood privately, he was privately articulating what was true and know about the virus at that time. >> i think without a doubt they were regular briefings. there were briefings from the task force i am sure he heard the information and i am sure he was explained. he understands the information what he choose to communicate is a different story. i have no doubt that the information conveyed to him by the experts was real and what you are saying as experts knew

anthony fauci and the president. they have very different messages as to when this vaccine could feasibly be released. the president going so far as to say it could be beginning the november, just a couple of days conveniently before his re-election. or his bid to get re-elected. and then fauci saying the best case scenario, end of the year. what is the current relationship between these two men? and who do you suspect has a better handle on the actual time line of this thing? how much pressure is the president putting on these drug companies to get something released before the election? >> yeah. our reporting indicates that the president views the promise of a vaccine as a lifeline for his campaign. that people who have yet to make up their mind are, you know, going to be swung by the fact that he is ushering in a vaccine as quickly as possible. you know, it's impossible, i think if we're looking at the facts here, dr. fauci is the medical professional. he has the science background. he has been in public service,

fauci is basically seems like he's been sidelined. what does dr. fauci tell woodward? >> throughout the book he's quoted. there is a lot of detail and direct quotes and he says what woodward reports fauci says about trump that his leadership is rutterless, that his attention span is like a minus number and that his sole purpose is to get reelected. i should say that dr. fauci did an interview today in which he said he didn't recall this. i just want to remind people again with their permission, bob woodward is known to record all of these interviews, these were very specific quotes in the book. >> stay with us. i want to bring in our chief medical correspondent dr.spence director of global health as well as an ebola survivor. sanjay, president trump's decision to down play the virus for whatever reason, whether it was to avoid causing panic as he is claiming or to avoid hurting his reelection chances or that he was panicking and didn't really know what to do, it cost lives. i mean, as we referenced earlier and i saw you talking about this earlier today, you know, if he

anthony fauci. the country's leading infectious disease expert said normal life may not return until the end of next year. six months to the day after the coronavirus was declared a pandemic, more than 192,000 americans have died. new cases have fallen since the summer peak, but there were 35,000 new infections yesterday. here's cbs' manuel bojorquez. >> if we're talking about getting back to a degree of normality prior to covid, it's going to be 2021. >> dr. anthony fauci is warning of new surges. >> i >> reporter: despite downward trends in new cases in 24 states, dr. anthony fauci is warning of new surges. >> i am concerned when i see things starting to move indoors, and that becomes more compelling when you get into the fall and the winter season. >> reporter: yet in nebraska, where covid cases are on the rise, the governor is ending nearly all social distancing restrictions in bars, churches, and gyms, beginning on monday. other concerns nationwide: cooler weather packing more people indoors, a

doctor fauci, let's begin with you. >> mr. chairman, ranking member murray, members of the committee, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak with you today briefly on the role of the national institute of health research in addressing this before. as i mentioned in a prior hearing the nih has a four-part strategic plan for research to address. first is the fundamental knowledge of the virus itself. there are clinical observations we will be pursuing in the future. i bring to your attention the fact that a number of individuals who biologically have recovered from infection in fact have persistence measured in weeks to months of symptomatology that does not appear to be due to the persistence of the virus and referred to as long-haul. they have fatigue, myalgi myalga timekeeper and involvement of the neurological system as well as cognitive abnormalities and the inability to concentrate. in addition, we found to our dismay that a number of individuals that have completely recovered and apparently are asymptomatic, whe

fauci. dr. fauci, i mean, he laid that down. he was not taking it. >> right. and this is why you don't have the administration put him forward because he's from my hometown. he's from brooklyn, and he tells it like it is. there was only one person in that conversation who knows anything about virology or immunology, and that sadly, was not senator paul. we need to hear more from dr. fauci. we need to hear the good and we need to hear the bad. and i don't think the public will accept a vaccine unless our scientists tell us that it's safe. i think the president is barking up the wrong tree. >> all right. thank you both very much. i appreciate it. >>> and next, president trump refusing to commit to providing a peaceful transition of power if he loses the election. >> we're going to have to see what happens. you know that. i've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster. >>> plus amy coney barrett, trump's top choice to replace ruth bader ginsburg said this in 2016. >> we're talking about justice scalia, the staunchest conserva

fauci, dr. fauci says all he was interested in primarily was his reelection. that's something that we have a right to expect much better of from a president. >> michael beschloss, the book is "presidents of war." thank you so much for all of your wisdom. and of course ben rhodes who has been there, been in the oval office and has seen so much of this, the great context. thank you both very much. >>> as america remembers and honors those who died 19 years ago today, two young people who were just kids on september 11th are finding new ways to give back in our current moment of national crisis. stay with us for their story. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. the united states postal service is here to deliver your packages. and the peace of mind of knowing that important things like your prescriptions, and ballots, are on their way. every day, all across america, we'll keep delivering for you. every day, all across america, you should be mad at tech that makes things worse. but you're not, because you have e*trade whose tech makes life easier by

fauci say that? >> no. i think dr. fauci has proven for anyone who's been watching him for years and years to put the public health of the american people as the highest priority in terms of his work and his reputation and his priority. yes, i trust dr. fauci. >> so let's look down the road at some point hopefully there will be a credible and a safe vaccine for coronavirus. if and when that happens, should all 50 states require students to get that vaccine before entering public school? >> well, first, dana, i would say that there is a huge distinction between creation of a vaccine and then peer reviewed to the point that it is actually viable. big difference between vaccine and vaccination. >> absolutely. >> and one of the issues that i think is very critical on this plain about whether people are actually vaccinate school district whether there's a national plan. joe biden and i have a plan, a national plan. donald trump does not. and so when we start braking down different populations, there has to be an overall pla

fauci and telling dr. fauci to stop recommending kids should not be wearing masks and fewer tests done for people who don't have covid symptoms and fauci's team have pushed back and nobody has been able to tell him what he can or can't say. clearly these e-mails are evidence that there has been an effort to steer even these public health leaders you are describing away from the public health message they believe that the public needs to hear does it surprise you to hear about that reporting or know that's going to happen >> it is not surprising. i can tell you that nobody saw this in dr. fauci. if i can think about one person spoken the truth is him. he has managed to find a way to speak the truth whether it is through the press conference or when he was not able to do a conference, he would do a webcast. he's a national hero he's worked during this pandemic he has done all he can and we all should be proud and happy that we have him in that position he could have easily said i have no time. he's doing wha

fauci, saying that is highly unlikely. that, as a top prosecutor is resigning from the justice department team probing the russia investigation. a report saying that they're being pressured to produce results, before the election. is re-election all trump cares about? we'll discuss, just ahead. >>> also, tonight. wildfires devastating the western part of this country. killing more than two dozen people. at least 100 large fires burning across 12 states. scorching more than 4 and a half million acres. lot to report to you -- to you, this hour. but we want to start with our white house correspondent, john harwood. senior editor at the atlantic, ron brownstein, and amanda carpenter, former communications director for senator ted cruz. hello, one and all. john, you're up, first. let's talk -- talk about dr. fauci's warning that we may not get back to our pre-coronavirus lives, for another year. president, though, pretending that the pandemic is, you know, already over. what is the electorate think? >> well, the electorate, pla

fauci so he can read a little bit on this. in "science" magazine in august 3 mathematicians came out with the idea that because of an infection transmission, transmission of infections and immunity seem to be concentrated in younger people, they seem to catch this faster and it actually skews the formulas on herd immunity and would allow herd immunity at a much lower rate. the other thing from the john hopkins website that you see is new york has no new incidents and no new deaths. he wants to say it's because everyone is washing their hands but i don't believe that. i think they were washing their hands in april and there was still all these deaths so, i can't say with certainty but over the next couple of months if there is no significant surge again without a vaccine in new york, it will look like herd immunity. it looks like this around the world. when people have a significant surge, they are not getting a second surge and there are mathematicians who have looked at the formula and herd immunity and they have actually sai

fauci. dr. fauci said from the beginning that the president was listening to him even when the white house tried in a couple of different ways to distance dr. fauci. he has incredible credibility with the american people. the first thing today when this came out dr. fauci is on our air and says, no, that's not my recollection. that's not how i saw it. you have the president trying to explain it. for this particular leak out of the woodard book they are handling it the best they can. they have to know that the biden team will use this and marry it with the line of attack they used in the convention. sorry i took so long. >> no, you were insightful. jesse, i want to pick on this from the woodruff book. -- woodard book. the president was told in late january this was a serious threat to the homeland and people could die. if that's the case, should he have acted decisively in february to shut things down and tell people to wear masks and wash their hands? would that have saved thousands of lives? >>

anthony fauci next. this is bloomberg. ♪ emily: johnson & johnson has begun a trial of its covid-19 vaccine with up to 60,000 volunteers, marking the big -- first big u.s. trial that may work after one shot. at cdc say 7 million doses should be available by april of next year. there is growing concern that minority groups may have inadequate access to vaccine trials. at the bloomberg equality summit, dr. anthony fauci spoke with david rubenstein to discuss the country's plans for distribution when the time comes. you about ak concern that has been expressed by an op-ed in "the new york times" about whether people who are minorities are being adequately represented in the covid-19 phase three trials. what can you say about that? dr. fauci: we are trying as best as we possibly can to get equitable representation of african-americans, latinx, and other minorities. we are doing better with the latinx, but still, we have to do much, much better with the relative percentage of african-americans in the trial.

that assumes this information all came from tony fauci, which it did not. we know in the tape that in february, he was told things about the potential severity of this. it's not that bad, it's not like the flu. when he knew it wasn't, could be. guess what, i'll give you that too, maybe you don't want to panic people. >> i don't know of anything -- >> i have the time line right in front of me. >> i don't know about anything he found out in february. >> february 7th he told woodward. >> it's not about fauci. fauci was giving the message about masks and getting yelled at for giving it after he changed. they didn't want him to say it. >> how would president trump know the severity of covid 19 in february. he would have had to have been a prof fett -- that's the time people were telling people to go out and have a good time. >> no, they weren't. that's what trump was saying. >> up until march. >> no, no, no, no. -- >> one president. >> he tells them to go to chinatown at the -- >> let's say nancy pelosi was wrong, she's not president. >> comments from pelosi, fr

fauci so concerned about this also? >> well, he's concerned because every public health official expects a spike during the fall and winter, when we move from outside to inside. and we know that the virus is transmitted much more efficiently in indoor environments, where the air flow is less brisk and it's harder to social distance. so we plateaued at 40,000. we've been here all summer. and so we've squandered our opportunities. we keep squandering our opportunities to push the case counts down in the united states and protect lives. so instead of that, we've plateaued at around 40,000 cases a day. and our deaths are somewhere between 800,000 and a 1,000 cases per day. so if this doubles, with a winter spike, so we'll be, you know, 80,000 cases a day. 2,000, 3,000 deaths a day. it's an intolerable toll. which is why people like tony fauci keep stressing that we need to get the numbers down. we're not doing the things necessary to do that. >> let's talk about what the fda is announcing in terms of the timeline for a vacc

fauci says things will get worse. what should people be bracing for? >> i think in terms of what elizabeth cohen said she's right. it is unusual for a trial to be stopped. obviously, we need vaccines, we want a vaccine. a vaccine along with hygienic measures is our way out of this pandemic, but it has to be safe and held to a high standard of safety. people who are getting the vaccine are unlikely to die from this virus so i'm glad that astrazeneca are through pausing to see whether or not this was an event that was causally related to the vaccine or just coincidentally related to the vaccine. >> can you explain why this ensemble -- ensemble meaning coming together, 15,000 deaths in the next few weeks that's a remarkable and alarming uptick from the pace we have been at before. what explains that in your view? >> i think we're still seeing some limitations in the realm of risk perception, in terms of perceived sense of the gravity and the need to include nonpharmaceutical interventions like mask wearing, like social distancing, like avoiding places of

fauci or to vice president pence. this is a comment he was may recollecting on the record with a journalist so he knew it would see a light of day some point so it is remarkable and i think it is a fair question given that he is the commander in chief what would have happened. he didn't want to panic anybody but what would have happened if we had an idea of how deadly the pandemic was on february 7th opposed to a month later? >> i think, jake, going through this pandemic, we learn really what the 101 is of responding to a pandemic and for public health officials they know this very clearly and certainly the president told this, you have to be honest. right? you spell out the situation and the key to being able to manage something which is certainly the key to an economic response is telling people the truth. >> yeah. and obviously president trump's involvement in what were daily coronavirus briefings corrupted that process of people telling the truth. i have to say as an american, as a news consumer and as a journalis

fauci. let's go to dr. redfield and then admiral giroir and dr. hahn. dr. redfield, welcome. >> thank you, chairman alexander, ranking member murray and members of the committee. i want to thank you for the opportunity to be here today. on behalf of cdc, i also want to thank you for your continued support of our public health professionals, and their life saving work that they're committed to 24/7. over 6700 cdc staff have been engaged in our agency's covid-19 response so far. and more than 1200 have been deployed to more than 200 locations, tribal nations and the united states and abroad. i know that you join me in expressing our collective deep gratitude to the women and men of cdc for their resilience, their dedication, and their service to our nation. throughout this global pandemic, cdc brought its science expertise to the front lines, grounded in science and data, conducting rapid investigations of disease outbreaks that identify the highest risk populations and settings and putting in

anthony fauci, and woodward quotes fauci. and what is typical in a woodward book is that he records all of his interviews with the permission of the subject. and anthony fauci says the following about the president. he says his leadership is, quote, rutterless. he says the president's attention span is like a minus number. and he says his sole purpose is to get re-elected. we should say that dr. fauci did an interview today where he was backtracking saying he didn't remember this. but my understanding is that these were all direct quotes from dr. fauci. >> very significant indeed. jamie, the revelations from bob woodward's book also include eye-opening major national security issues. i've gone through some of them. he reports, for example, that top-level officials were deeply concerned about how close the u.s. came to nuclear war with north korea back in 2017. james mattis was then the defense secretary. how seriously did he take the threat of a nuclear war with north korea? >> you know, it's interesting. there's a quote from

fauci. let's go to dr. redfield and then admiral giroir and then dr. hahn. dr. redfield, welcome. >> thank you, chairman alexander and ranking member murray and members of the committee, and i want to thank you for the opportunity to be here today. on behalf of cdc, i also want to thank you for your continued support of our public health professionals and their life-saving work that they're committed to 24/7. over 6700 cdc staff have been engaged in our agency's covid-19 response so far and more than 1200 have been deployed to more than 200 locations, traveled to nations, in the united states and abroad. i know you join me in expressing our collective deep gratitude to the men and women for their resilience, their dedication to our nation. cdc has brought its science expertise to the front lines grounded in science and data, conducting rapid investigations of disease outbreaks that identify the highest risk populations and settings and putting place measures to prevent further spread of covi

fauci, head of nih. and so from the very beginning, he has repeatedly said that this is not that dangerous, that the summer months would mean that it disappeared. we're now about to enter fall. the pandemic is still very present. and cdc officials, former cdc officials that i've spoken to throughout the pandemic have said how significant and critical it is when government leaders express empathy and actually level with citizens about what they need them to do in order to help during a pandemic like this to help it pass and to get past it. >> so, abby, health officials i speak to say there are two things that we need to be doing right now. one is everybody needs to be wearing masks when they are near somebody else other than obviously in their family. and, two, is testing overwhelmingly. you talked about the messages that trump's rallygoers are getting from him. jim acosta interviewed some of them last night. let's roll some of those and i want to get your reaction. >> why are you not wearing a mask? >> b

anthony fauci talking about president trump. dr. anthony fauci says the president is on a separate channel. fauci later told others, trump's leadership was rudderless. gene robinson, dr. fauci has been very careful but he has said enough that bob woodward being the reporter that we know he is, was able to pick that up and deliver it and that is, of course, what we have assumed from our distance that dr. fauci thinks about president trump, that he's just rudderless >> yes, because who wouldn't think that watching the president's response to the pandemic i mean, we saw it unfold in real time, really it's -- what bob does with this book is tell a story that we kind of knew but he really gets inside, which is, you know, i've known bob woodward for 40 years. bob woodward was the local news editor at "the washington post" who hired a young reporter named eugene robinson to cover a mayor named mar onb nam nam namedmarion barry' o yry ions a. that's the problem with the woodward book, and certainly the problem with this book, he always has

fauci is too useful to the biden campaign so until november fauci's word must be law even when it doesn't make sense. criticize fauci and you will disappearm from the internet. and so dr. emanuel disappeared from the internet and then google's countless toads online did the clean up work the ugly stuff.. daily beast attacked dr. manual for getting her medical degree in africa and suggested she believed in witchcraft because african-americans do that political correctness fine with the daily dr. manual must be destroyed the daily beast was happy to do that so were the think tank libertarians including some posing as conservatives people you read. people who work for places you probably sent money to. to say you saw them on twitter today hopefully reminding you this variety of censorship isn't censorship because the government isn't doing it. oh, they didn't explain exactly why that distinction matters to oanyone. in fact, censorship is always bad whether it's imposed by congress or whether it's imposed by monopolies that exist because they receive special carveouts granted to them by congr

anthony fauci. still, he insists science will lead any vaccine approval process. >> the fda has been very explicit that they are going to make a decision based on the data as it comes in. the vaccine would not be approved to the american public unless it was indeed both safe and effective. and i keep emphasizing both safe and effective. >> reporter: those assurances come after the cdc sent out guidance for how states should distribute millions of doses oof a potential vaccine by late october. it's faster than public health officials previously estimated. for two weeks the u.s. has been averages some 40,000 new cases a day, on each of the last two days, more than a thousand deaths. >> let's be clear where we are, the virus is not done with us yet, not by a long shot. >> reporter: in the northeast where states meet significant and sustained progress against the virus, a number of states are now seeing increases in covid-19 cases. there's a new crop of hotspots in the midwest. missouri is now in the so

that assumes that this information came from tony fauci which is not. we know in february he was toll thin told of the potential severity of this, not only he go out and say it is not that bad and not like the flu. when he knew, what it could be because maybe he does not want to panic people. i got the timeline right in front of me. >> i don't know about anything he found out in february. >> february 7th -- >> it is not about fauci. >> fauci was giving the message about masks and getting yelled at giving it after he changed. >> how would president trump know the severity of covid-19 in february. >> february 7th. >> that's the time that people would tell him -- telling the people out to have a good time >> no, he was not. >> rudy. >> no, no. >> one president. >> let's say nancy was wrong. nancy pelosi was wrong. >> first of all, they were getting their information from the president and the federal agencies. >> they were getting their information, getting the same information the president was getting. >> and february things started to shift, rudy. febru

fauci says he disagrees with the president that the u.s. is turning the corner on the virus. >>> today the nation's leading infectious disease expert says the u.s. is not turning the corner. an average of 35,000 new cases a day. that's progress from the summer peek of 70,000. but still stubbornly high as the season will soon change to colder temperatures and people are forced inside. and dr. fauci is repeating his confidence that the vaccine could be ready by the end of the year and adding that returning to prepandemic terms may not happen until the end of 2021. >> i believe that we will have a vaccine available by the end of this year, beginning of next year. prr but by the time you mobilize the distribution of vaccinations and you get the majority or more of the population vaccinated and protected, that's not