he did general petraeus. general mcchrystal killed zarqawi. our best field commanders think this is necessary. this should not be a difficult call. >> do you think it's possible he could side with vice president biden and decide against general mcchrystal's advice, the general he put on the ground? >> yes, i think he could and it would come, though, at some tremendous political cost. but let me just say that the other political side of the equation that has been ignored in this conversation so far is that most americans, while we want to win the war in afghanistan, do not want to send more troops to afghanistan. this is true even among republicans. the left in this country is very war-weary, but the right is also war-weary. some think it's just republicans. that's not the case. this country after eight years in afghanistan without seeing any substantial progress, without seeing a stable government come to the forefront instead of this question of fraud and sort of the narco-terrorist connection to the karzai government, people are dubious what

and by the way, general mcchrystal himself, people ignore what general mcchrystal is now saying. give deliberative process a chance. he supports look at the strategy which was in place in march but things have changed since march including that election in afghanistan which has had significant fraud. >> schieffer: let me just ask you this, senator. i think everybody would wish that we had more afghan troops that you can surge there. but where are they? i mean, they would have to be trained. i mean they're not there. if they were, i'm sure they would surge them. where do you get these afghan troops? >> you get them by sending in a lot more trainers, 2,000-3,000 more trainers including from nato countrys that have that responsibility. by the way just take a look at the equipment of the afghan army. we do not have in place yet a plan to send... to surge equipment for the afghan army. we have a lot of equipment in iraq. some of that is going to stay there. a lot of it is going to come home. a lot of it should go to afghanistan. when they were in afghanistan we pressed our people, whe

mcchrystal, one hopes that general mcchrystal will win the day. basically it comes down to this. president said he had a new strategy, he was general when he laid it out in march. then he sent a new general over there to execute it who has come back and said, well, we need more troops if we're going to do this. the question is, did he change the strategy, or is he simply doing what was necessary militarily to carry it out. it's the latter, what is necessary it seems to me the president is in awkward position to rebuff him. >> i think it's more complicated than that. it's a tough decision, counterterrorism strip down choice or an all in counterinsurgency choice. either choice is gawtd, one could lead to the quagmire and one could lead to the al-qaeda regaining a foothold in afghanistan. i think in the middle ground looks worse, putting in a little more troops to muddle along. i think this is a very tough choice. this is defining moment for the president because there is no way in domestic politics when you can find a middle ground or balance one si

should the president approve general mcchrystal's request now? >> i think it's the right thing to do. he sent general mcchrystal over there in the spring. see what it's like on the ground. give me a report and let's devise a strategy for going forward. he's done that. and dianne's exactly right. it's a very fractious government over there. lot of corruption within the karzai government and not much stability. if we're going to move forward, we've got to do two things. we got to think about the civilian side and what we're going to do with that government. from the standpoint of trying to help the afghan people clean it up. in order to be successful at doing that, then we've got to quell the violence. we got to slow down the taliban. that means prevailing military. that's what general mcchrystal has recommended and i think the president has got to follow his commanders on ground. the situation in iraq, where jack was very much involved in, not unlike where we are right now. the iraqi government was very unstable. the violence was up. we stopped th

and i do think that general mcchrystal has overstepped a bit publicly. >> let's say what general jones says over the weekend, the national security adviser saying that the advice to the president should come up through the chain of command. >> ideally it's better for military advice to come up through the chain of command. and i think that general mcchrystal and the others in the chain of command will present the president with not just one option, which does, in fact, have a function but a range of options that the president can consider. >> general migs, you know the military and how unusual is this and at the other end of the spectrum, i want to ask you about general petraeus. with the exception of the interview with brian williams last week at a forum in washington, he has not been very public. clearly does not have the kind of relationship with this president that he had with president bush in terms of his role within the deliberations. the "new york times" saying no longer does the man who oversees the wars in iraq and afghanstone have one of the biggest voices and the change has

will the president give german, mcchrystal -- general mcchrystal the troops he needs? martha: about 18 minutes away from the big meeting. the war in afghanistan tops the agenda. we will find out then if you minutes when they will be discussing. in the middle box, a trip overseas is on tap for vice president biden. he will visit three nato allies, poland, romania, and the czech republic. in the bottom box, thousands of homes in the california san gabriel mountains are still threatened by wildfires, but cool weather is helping the firefighters get a handle on the flames. trace: rio de janeiro, home of the 2016 olympics and the world's highest murder rate. now they are trying to live down their reputation of crime. in fact, violence is such a problem that more and more ordinary people drive around in armored cars. steve harrigan is with us in rio de janeiro. >> rio is going to have an $11 billion budget for those games, and they will have to spend some of that money on neighborhoods like this, either to knock them down or to want them off. these types of slums cause a sec

general petraeus who is a big advocate of general mcchrystal's plan, when he took over the command in iraq, wanted every one of the troop requests made public so there's a debate over it made public. and what we're seeing now is general mcchrystal's assessment made its way to the public domain. a very public debate about this putting pressure on president obama and but -- and also, making the white house push back to some degree on what do you need and how does it fit with what our objectives really are in afghanistan and pakistan? >> do you get a sense there's friction between the president and general mcchrystal? >> i don't know there f there's friction. president obama asked the general to come over from london while the president was in copenhagen for the olympic's bid. a day before the general given a speech in london essentially said anything less than what he's asking for is not going to be successful. i wouldn't be surprised if there were a little bit of that conversation where about let's try to keep it more internal. let's not make this debate public. let's not give our nato

general mcchrystal will give him advice. president obama will tell him what to do and general mcchrystal will execute that. so i'm not sure that -- why it was leaked, who leaked it, i have no idea. it was unfortunate, but it really doesn't change the relationship of the commander in chief and subordinate general. >> "the huffington post" today reported, a columnist for news max, the conservative media, a fellow named john perry wrote a column tuesday which later was pulled which in part said the following. "imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation, skilled military trained nation builders would replace accountability challenged radical left commissars having bonded with his twin teleprompters the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech making." is this just loony tune stuff, general? we all saw "seven days in may." i wonder if in this country anybody takes seriously the push for the mili

last week, general stanley mcchrystal campaigned publicly for more troops. while the president was weighing a smaller counterterrorism strategy. well, the president's national security advisor rebuked mcchrystal yesterday on television. two retired generals join us to talk about this open fight now between the uniformed leaders and the civilians. >>> and if you've been thinking that president obama needs a win one of these days, you're not alone. check out "saturday night live's" devastating opening skit. >> it's very clear what i've done so far. and that is -- nothing. nada. >> why the president needs a win, and quick. later in the show. >>> also, is general david petraeus really thinking about running for president in 2012, could he beat someone as exciting as mit romney or deep as sarah palin? check out politics tonight for that big question. and do you remember the famous mccaca remark? we may have heard another one, another mccaca moment in virginia. on the "hardball" sideshow tonight. why conservatives seem to be rooting against america these days. cla

general mcchrystal was publicly pushing for more troops. not really popular among some of his bosses. they suggest that he was bucking the chain of command. the president has yet to make a decision on his request. here's a look at one of the technically advanced fighter jets in the u.s. arsenal. you cannot do it all with troops on the ground he is live in far western afghanistan. >> good to see you. we are embedded with the 615 contingency response wing in california. we have been on the ground here in afghanistan for the past five days or so. we have gotten an up close and personal look to some of the tools that the u.s. air force is using to fight this war on terror. this is the a10-c. it is one of the most technologically advanced planes in the whole world. to the men and women to fly them, it is just another day in the office. i am going to see what it takes to get in the cockpit. >> and this is the survival vest. if you have to reject -- and there is the harness that goes on after that if you have to inject, this is what connects you t

people are admiring general mcchrystal generally and think he's a smart, capable general, but they just don't know given the history of afghanistan what these 40,000 troops will do. chris: even with the extra 40,000 we may not be able to beat the taliban? >> i don't think there's anybody at the pentagon that think they can wipe out the taliban. it's an indigenous movement and you kill the bad guys but the other ones that are the local tribal leaders who can be bought off. chris: we're not there alone, we have the british with us and are they losing faith of the operation of staying in afghanistan and they have a history there before. >> i think the british public is to some degree losing faith as well as the american public. on our television screen we are watching the coffins come back of british soldiers and proportionately we're losing more men and women fighting in afghanistan than the americans are. that said, gordon brown has hinted he would give a few more troops, a couple thousand more troops to the mission if obama asks for them but more generally there's confusion in europe ab

i would say we are going to give general mcchrystal more troops. i wouldn't put a number on it you are right. have you got to evaluate what's going on. where they are going to be. i understand mcchrystal wants them for security in the big city was which absolutely you have to have. i would say to the world we have a commitment. the white house did come out today and say they are not withdrawing from afghanistan. the white house said that today very late this afternoon. i would say we are going to send-general mcchrystal some troops. he wants more. is he going to get more. i wouldn't put a number on it yet. that would clear it up and not leave it hanging and dangling. what would you do? >> i would say the same thing that jim jones said. this is not about troops. it's about strategy. got to get the strategyt. when he first put the troop reinforcements in he made the announce the three days after he took office and he didn't have his national security team on. i think we should be comforted by the fact that he is going to take a week of deliberations

and his superior, general petraeus. >> it's ok with the administration for general mcchrystal to go on "60 minutes" and it's ok for him to give a speech at institute for strategic studies in london, but the administration does not want general mccrystal and general petraeus before the senate armed services committee. how does that work? >> congressman vick snyder, a veteran of the vietnam war and 7 terms on the house armed services committee says he has no doubt mcchrystal will testify but does doubt the alternative to his plan that are under consideration. >> i don't see how vice president biden's approach will work. i don't see how it works to do air strikes from a distance to somehow think that you can knock out al qaeda from the air with limited resources on the ground. >> snyder went on to say that the white house is encouraging in this period of strategy review. one assessment by military commanders and civilian commanders alike, something the congressman said was lacking in the last administration. bret. bret: james, thanks n other world news, israel got its first glimpse of

i would say we are going to give general mcchrystal more troops. i wouldn't put a number on it you are right. have you got to evaluate what's going on. where they are going to be. i understand mcchrystal wants them for security in the big city was which absolutely you have to have. i would say to the world we have a commitment. the white house did come out today and say they are not withdrawing from afghanistan. the white house said that today very late this afternoon. i would say we are going to send-general mcchrystal some troops. he wants more. is he going to get more. i wouldn't put a number on it yet. that would clear it up and not leave it hanging and dangling. what would you do? >> i would say the same thing that jim jones said. this is not about troops. it's about strategy. got to get the strategy right. then you have got to get the american people behind it before you can go out and get the american people behind it, you have to have reviewed it. when he first put the troop reinforcements in he made the announce the three days after he too

is doing as well as what general mcchrystal is doing is what general petraeus did before the surge and what general paul did during his time. they are asking a lot of questions. they are asking where do we end up here? what is our end goal in the administration owes the troops on the ground a clear and concise and consistent policy to. deliver that policy to their commanders to general mcchrystal so he can develop a strategy that is going to, one, protect the troops on the ground and two, accomplish the mission. we have to decide what that mission is going to be. they are all asking questions right now. that's what a military officer does. steve: josh. what about you? there are politics involved in that, aren't there? >> i have a great deal of rch for general jones out of the marine corps, i think he is above politics. at the same time, i believe that general mcchrystal should be trusted. he is the military commander on the ground. i believe our policymakers need to trust our military commanders on the ground to make the decisions that are best for mission accomplishment and protecting

general mcchrystal, however, is now deciding that some of them are simply not worth it, that they are too hard to resupply, they are too vulnerable, and they are not worth sustaining. so it's better to pull the resources back, keep them in the cities, and try and defend the cities instead of trying to fight for each different mountain pass in eastern afghanistan. >> it wa interesting today how the military described the attackers. they call them tribal militia. they did not use the term taliban. help us understand the difference, if there is any, and their motivation. >> reporter: the taliban is generally a movement that is strong in southern afghanistan. in the east, you have fighters who have crossed over from pakistan, but you also have many villagers who are simply angry that there are american troops in afghanistan, and they are -- they're fighting to defend their own territory. they're hostile to outsiders, and they don't want the bases there. so it's not that it's such an organized movement, a taliban militia. in many cases you just have fighters who are angry that there is a u

. >> that is general stanley mcchrystal, top american a deerow commander in afghanistan. heants 40,000 more troops and more dramatic change in tactics. evan, you travel to afghanistan and talk to the man. what kind of guy is he? >> he is very impressive. he only needs one meal a day. he is a war hero. but the significant thing is he was the guy who was in charge of killing people as the head of special operations. >> successfully. >> more experience encountered terror, finding and killing the bad guy. he makes a pretty good argument that you can't just do that by itself. in order to kill the bad guy, you have to do this counter insurgency. if you don't have the civilians on your side, they are not cooperating, you can't find the bad guys to kill them. that had some affect on me, it can't just stand off and hope you can kill the guy is from a great distance but you have to be on the grant getting the civilians on your side. >> that is fine, but in this tribal society when you have all kinds of conflicting forces, one day i am on your side next day on the other side -- >> i

general mcchrystal's criticism of decision-makers generally. not just this one. >> talk about the timing of the president meeting with general mcchrystal, 25 minutes there on the ground in copenhagen. in coincidence to the timing? this speech may be demand for that meeting? >> i'm too old to believe in coincidences anymore. i think it's, my guess is that the request for mcchrystal's presence on air force one in copenhagen when the president came back to the united states was caused by at least partially general mcchrystal's statement in london, and i think the two had a very clear talk about what was going to happen next. doesn't mean necessarily the president will decide any time soon. as a matter of fact, i think it's going to be unlikely we'll get a decision in the next couple of weeks. >> okay. colonel jack jacobs, more later this morning. >> you bet. >>> still ahead a new twist in the madoff family saga. now it's about getting even. in the cross hairs, we'll explain on "msnbc saturday." [ female announcer ] if you're using the leading sens

the general jones saying that mcchrystal is part of our equation. he is the commander on the ground. why are we seeing such a public airing of differences here? >> because there are huge differences between mcchrystal and jones, and perhaps the president, and the man that he tapped to carry out the job. stanley mcchrystal is simply trying to execute the president's strategy and telling the world what he needs to do that. it is not pretty when the national security adviser deadly chides him for talking about what he needs. martha: they had a 20-minute meeting. do you think we are going to hear more from general mcchrystal in the coming weeks? >> speaking as a former soldier, you want to do with the commander in chief on to do. there are several things at play here, but what we have to focus on is, we do not have a winning strategy yet. general mcchrystal is not guaranteed success by getting these troops. martha: but he did guarantee failure without them. >> absolutely, we are trying to stop the bleeding here. we need to find the right strategy here.

first, to give general mcchrystal the 40,000 troops the general says he needs to turn it around or do what vice president joe biden says and concentrate on al-qaeda. >> the president is receiving two forms of advice. one, increase troop levels 30 to 40,000 or two, as joe biden favors, no more troops just keep banging away at al-qaeda. first, biden's plan, will it work. >> the short answer is no. >> where who in the hell does that guy think he is. oh, he is general stanley mcchrystal hand picked by obama to reshape our strategy. i see. >> ann coulter and reverend al sharp ton join me. i believe the president must honor general mcchrystal's request. >> it seems weird how long this decision is taking. >> geraldo: i have a theory on that and i have not confirmed it. remember, general david petraeus, the hero of the surge in iraq who is now the commander of iraq and afghanistan was diagnosed with prostate cancer and he had all of that rigorous therapy. i think he was out of the loop and that is why i think the mcchrystal memo got leaked. >> i have a different theory why it took so long. be

general stanley mcchrystal and discussing strategy for the war in afghanistan. and mcchrystal says, 40,000 more troops are needed to win there. and iran's president, mahmoud ahmadinejad, today, saying his key -- nuclear complex was no secret at all and now says he told this u.n. about the facility, weeks before the u.s. and other countries accused him of hiding it and also says president obama is making a, quote, historic mistake by accusing iran of wrongdoing. in 1995, ask just about anyone and they can remember where they were when o.j. simpson was found not guilty. the sensational case, captivated an polarized the nation and began more than a year orioler when o.j. simpson's ex-wife, nicole brown and her friend, ron goldman were found dead outside of her l.a. condo. and what followed from the white bronco to the infamous liter gloves became part of the trial of the century and came

general stanley mcchrystal and discussing strategy for the war in afghanistan. and mcchrystal says, 40,000 more troops are needed to win there. and iran's president, mahmoud ahmadinejad, today, saying his key -- nuclear complex was no secret at all and now says he told this u.n. about the facility, weeks before the u.s. and other countries accused him of hiding it and also says president obama is making a, quote, historic mistake by accusing iran of wrongdoing. in 1995, ask just about anyone and they can remember where they were when o.j. simpson was found not guilty. the sensational case, captivated an polarized the nation and began more than a year orioler when o.j. simpson's ex-wife, nicole brown and her friend, ron goldman were found dead outside of her l.a. condo. and what followed from the white bronco to the infamous liter gloves became part of the trial of the century and cameo

trace: general to try as last week was saying that he supports the assessment by general of mcchrystal in afghanistan. today, he says he supports the assessment that afghanistan is deteriorating, but he is not saying he supports the call for more troops. are we waffling in little bit here? >> that is the first i have heard of that because in the past, they have been very united on that statement. you never know where pressures could be coming from. there have been rumors that the president does not want to see this troop increase and is putting a little pressure for numbers to be lower, but what i have heard about general mcchrystal is that he is a straight shooter and will ask for what he thinks he needs to succeed on the battlefield, which is everything we owe our troops on the ground. they have to execute the strategy, if we are going to send in there and put them in harm's way, we need to give the every resources to help them win. trace: great to have you. thank you. alisyn: have you got a need for speed? the brand new technology that could help you avoid a pricey speeding ticket.

general mcchrystal apparently says he needs them. what do you make of this? >> i am not sure we've ever had a situation like this, certainly not in recent history, where you have a general on the ground in the time of war asking for the resources that he needs. this is a general that president obama put in place, and very competent man, and he was put in place in march, and now, general mcchrystal has said that we need more resources and trips, and the white house has gone through an awful lot -- we need more resources and troops. we keep hearing that secretary gates has the numbers but he has not forded them to the white house, and, frankly, i think -- but he has not forbid them -- forwarded them. when you are the commander in chief, and you have a general who is commanding the troops that you said was an unnecessary war that we have to win, and you can only spend 25 minutes face-to-face with him, there is a real question about your priorities. greta: i assume that he has had some sort of communication with general mcchrystal over the past weeks or months. t

you can actually multitask and bring the generals to you. >> reporter: well, general mcchrystal was in london. so obviously, you know, europe, what is it, about ten miles wide? you know, europe not a big continent. i don't know. it's very european to me. what do i know? it's across a lake, right? we call it a pond. so seriously, general mcchrystal was in london. they set up this meeting yesterday. they had a 25-minute meeting on air force one. obviously, general mcchrystal was involved in the three-hour marathon session on afghanistan strategy that took place here at the white house. he was on via teleconference. but because general mcchrystal was in the vicinity in europe, hop, skip, and a jump, couple hundred miles away, he came and visited with the president. i think it does, for all of the folks that wanted to criticize the president here for somehow taking his eye off the ball, it's a reminder the president has a lot of abilities to suddenly pop up and there's a general there ready to meet him. it, i think, does show that this is a face to face meeting that maybe the president cou

in public. >> the general mcchrystal is a patriot and a stand-up man. the country is obviously divided on the war but if we have to be in it we have to be in a bid to win it. i would like -- we have to be in it to win it. take care, guys. brian: 19 minutes after the hour. gretchen: president obama is working the phones, apparently, pressing the flesh behind-the- scenes, trying to get the public option back on the table. steve: look at all of those doctors. [laughter] how many of those are borrowed robes? at pennsylvania woman raise a black bear from when it was a cub -- a pennsylvania woman raises a black bear from when it was a cub and it turns around and kills her. can wild animals ever be raised safely? brian: cabdrivers, upset over different forms of transportation. who will win and why? steve: they are lucky they did not get run over. gretchen: the senate finance committee is scheduled to vote on the final health care bill that does not contain a government-run health care plan. the president and his administration are working behind the scenes to

we know overseas president obama met face to face with general mcchrystal about afghanistan. colonel jack jacobs will give us an update and the landscape. it's quiet on the home front-- not a lot of activity. you read the news. and yet, some people need to sell and other people want to buy. this is a moment of challenge and opportunity. fortunately, re/max agents have the experience to help you meet the one and recognize the other. thanks. because the future's counting on us. nobody sells more real estate than re/max. as the decades have past, the promise of medicare has always been there. and aarp has fought to guarantee none of the benefits you earned were ever taken away. today we're continuing that fight by protecting your freedom to choose the doctors and treatments you need. and to have your tax dollars go towards your care-- not insurance company subsidies. you've done your work. and we'll keep doing ours. learn more at aarp.org. >>> in my "playbook" tonight, president obama met with his top commander in afghanistan face to face today for the first time. the president

now, obama held another meeting with general stanley mcchrystal. ho on nce ias. ayets ryor. itldst m nner lyeron m s raleso hiowti llmemaur thy ets ro ig ass. (anc thntme shepard: in meeting aboard air force one between obama and his top military commander in afghanistan. this was their third conversation cents mcchrystal revealed on "60 minutes" that they had only spoken once since he took over in afghanistan. the meeting comes just one day after general mcchrystal said the afghan situation is deteriorating and insurance -- insurgent's pose a greater threat. his requesting another 40,000 troops. afghanistan is said to be a dangerous breeding ground for terrorists, including iran, iraq, and others. what do you make of this, bet? >> it is hard to overestimate the importance of the decision. general mcchrystal was added foreign-policy center in london thursday in which he spoke out of product in a stand and he was specifically asked if he thinks that a limited counter-terrorism strategy would work and he said the short answer is no. decca's directly against what vice-president

includeing from general mcchrystal. he says why bother having these tiny outposts in the middle of no place defending a valley where very few people live and the original theory to havin outposted in valleys like theç one that was overrun or like the one featured in this documentary was that you would fight them in the mountains, fight the enemies. and these soldiers call them taliban but they're all sorts of different fighters. fight them in the mountains so they stay outjt populated areas. kind of like our national security strategy. fight them over there so we don't fight them over here. the problem is we were fighting them over there in the mountains and fighting them in theities and you can't resupply them. a lo these... it can take days on foot before you get there because the mountains and valleys are so steep. the helicopters to come in have to get very close to the sides of the peaks, where they can get shot at. this is what happened to the soviets. they draw the helicopters into these tight canyons and vall

includeing from general mcchrystal. he says why bother having these tiny outposts in the middle of no place defending a valley where very few people live and the original theory to having outposted in valleys like theç one that was overrun or like the one featured in this documentary was that you would fight them in the mountains, fight the enemies. and these soldiers call them taliban but they're all sorts of different fighters. fight them in the mountains so they stay outjt populated areas. kind of like our national security strategy. fight them over there so we don't fight them over here. the problem is we were fighting them over there in the mountains and fighting them in the cities and you can't resupply them. a lot of these... it can take days on foot before you get there because the mountains and valleys are so steep. the helicopters to come in have to get very close to the sides of the peaks, where they can get shot at. this is what happened to the soviets. they draw the helicopters into these tight canyons a

>> they elected journal mcchrystal to make those decisions. -- general mcchrystal to make those decisions. i understand he was not elected. i do not understand why they're going after fox. i talk about that with you all of the time. it is hard for me to understand. i understand why they do not, on about three hours -- why they do not come on three hours' worth of programming -- sean: you have never been on this show? what are you talking about? you are on right now. >> frank luntz as your pollster. come on. let's not kid ourselves. we know what this is. this is an opinion show. sean: if obama can sit down with ahmadinejad, i think he could sit down with little old sean hannity. >> for somebody like me, in the last few weeks since this has started, i am being hit by the left as well as the right. i am now being called a traitor by both sides. when you take up the three shows i am talking about, the news shows have more personable voters -- personable -- persuadabkle voters. sean: dana? >> when you say at that podium matters to people, including room the world, and they see what dictators d

julie. >> julie: general mcchrystal says and i'm quoting here, the situation is deteriorating. is the word he uses. what does that mean? what does he mean. >> reporter: he's definitely sounding the alarm, julie, the insurgency is growing of the taliban and getting stronger and wants a renewed focus on counterinsurgency efforts and listen to this: >> the situation is serious and i choose that word very, very carefully. i also say that neither success, or failure, for our endeavor there in support of the afghan people, and the government, can be taken for granted. >> general mcchrystal said, on thursday. and there are 100,000 foreign troops in afghanistan, and about 60,000 of those are u.s. servicemen and women. julie. >> julie: molly henneberg, thank you very much. gregg. >> gregg: i deadly 24 hours for american forces, in afghanistan. five u.s. soldiers have been killed, in a string of attacks across this country. and, among the most serious, ambush in the eastern province. and an afghan policeman on a joint patrol with american soldiers, opened fire, killing two americans, and

the president and general stanley mcchrystal's meeting on strategy took place on air force one. the president was on the way back from denmark. officials said it was a continuation of the three-hour meeting they had at the white house on wednesday. but mcchrystal said a significant number of additional combat forces are needed in afghanistan. and sources say it's far more than the 21,000 the president has decided to send. >> there's clearly a sharp division. and it's a rift that i think -- it could be the sharpest break we've seen in years between a president and his commanding general in the field. as "the washington post" is reporting, there are several people arguing in front of the president on wednesday to not embrace what general mcchrystal wants. a big buildup in troops. they want to fight with drones from afar and take out top al qaeda leadership. >> however, mcchrystal suggests that focusing on al qaeda is not enough. the situation in afghanistan is serious and deteriorating. >>> veterans who wanted financial help for school got their money. the government gave them $26

and nato commander in afghanistan, general stanley mcchrystal there talking to reporters and academics in london today about the situation in afghanistan. general mccristal recently submitted a request to the pentagon for more u.s. troops but the pentagon will hold the request until president obama decides on what strategy to pursue. joining me now live is jan dribben, former spokesman for the state department and jamie, good to see you. let me ask you about the general's comments, in the context of the beginning of these series of meetings that the president's national security team is coming. the general saying today that we need to reverse the current trends and time does matter, waiting does not pro-long a favorable outcome. does that suggest that he is criticizing the current approach by the administration that there's too much waiting going on to decide the next strategy? >> i don't think so. general mccristal is certainly aware that the whole world is going to parse his statements precisely for this kind of question, as to whether there's some break between the military and civi

if he will go with general mcchrystal after deliberating the consequences of going with general mcchrystal, i think he will look strong. bill: all right. i have got to read a quote here -- there is general mcchrystal. but i want to move on to this quote that senator graham gave -- let's see, who did you say this to? washington ideas forum. i don't know what that is. >> inconsistent, isn't it? oxymoron. bill: you saying that the talking heads like me are actually hurting you guys from doing the people's work. no. what i was saying is you can imagine ben franklin being on bill o'reilly's program. bill: b. ben would have loved the intellectual. >> i think he would have loved his own. the point is that the 24-hour news cycle is what it is. the president is trying to deliberate quietly and you are leaking this report and leaking that report. it makes it hard. democracy can withstand all of this and we'll be just fine. i would love to see you interview ben franklin and john adams. bill: well, it would have been -- it would have been certainly my privilege to do so because the founding fathers i

there are several options on the board coming from general mcchrystal. but the way it's being presented here is you have to give general mcchrystal all he asks for. president obama gave him 21,000 already this year, so the question is where are we going and what we see if you look at the projections is as we increase troop levels, we have more and more casualties, not that suddenly additional force means we are additionally in command. what we've seen in the past week is intense fighting in pakistan. we see as the pakistani government tries to do more to restrain al qaeda, which is the real problem. we don't want the taliban to be a host for al qaeda. if, in fact, the real fact is in pakistan, why don't we just make sure that, for example, the pakistanis are stable enough to keep the taliban at bay and then go after al qaeda? >> let me pick up on that with you, liz. there's an anecdote in the latest "newsweek"-week with joe biden on the cover where he makes the point to the president, pakistan is where al qaeda leaders are and the country with nuclear we

general mcchrystal is the president's guy, but he's recommending more troops. not what the administration wanted to hear. will they let the military experts run the war or make key decisions from offices in washington? >> that is the question. because it is the essential decision for how the war in afghanistan moves forward. it is a cross roads. and how the president comes down on this very public risk between vice president biden and how stanley mcchrystal thinks the war should go forward, there is a large cassism between the two. at a think tank in london, which is rare for an administration that up until now has been quiet about its rifts behind closed door. >> certainly this has divided them. chairman levin has said we have to go with what the administration wants and not what the generals want. >> we will have two democrats and two republicans and talk about iran and afghanistan. there has to be a decision soon because in order to mobilize, if you say 40,000 troops that general mcchrystal want it takes time before the spring offensive, as it always happens

president wanted to spend some time with general mcchrystal. obviously, he's busy in afghanistan. the fact that they were both in the same general vicinity and easier to get together made this a logical thing to do. >> all right, david axelrod, thank you for jumping out in front of the cameras on the heels of this announcement. >> good to be with you. >> thank you so much. >>> again, the announcement what chis not music to the ears of many. the first of the final four cities to be ousted within this hour as the vote came down from copenhagen, denmark. it is the first of the four out and it was followed by tokyo. we expect the official announcement to say it was between madrid and rio de

we keep hearing general mcchrystal and others talking about the u.s. having a significant footprint in afghanistan for a long time. people have turned around the, ten years, possibly another decade there. what the presidential going to tell the general and i'm sure what the white house will say is we're going to give you more troops, but we're not going to give you ten more years. you are not going to have a lease on afghanistan for the next decade. what can you do in two to three years to draw this down and turn it over to the afghan people? so, again, the one thing we're not going to see, dan, and everybody in the media will see it, the headline, "mcchrystal to general, drop dead" or "president to his general, drop dead." it's not going to happen that way. generals and presidents have disagreement. bill clinton and his general had disagreements, but they quietly get together, figure how to work it. the president makes the final decision but usually it's middle ground. i'm sure they're going to do that again here. >> on that, have you been surprised t

he met on air force one with general stanley mcchrystal, the stop u.s. general in afghanistan. the meeting might help quell some of the criticism from republicans who are angry that the president spoke with mcchrystal just once in mcchrystal's first 70 days on the job. that was also the first face-to-face meeting between the president and general mcchrystal since mcchrystal issued a report saying if he doesn't get more troops, the mission in afghanistan could fail. katie? >> couric: all right. chip reid at the white house, thank you. turning now to that devastating earthquake in indonesia, two days later the search goes on for survivors. two women were rescued today and emergency crews in padang say they heard more voices from beneath the rubble but it's take ago painfully long time to clear the debris. the u.n. now says at least 1,100 people died in the quake and police say 3,000 more may be trapped. celia hatton has the latest from indonesia. >> reporter: hospitals in the city of padang are overflowing with victims injured in wednesday's quake. the patients in this trauma ten

>> clearly, not hearts and minds general mcchrystal calls it. it's trust and confidence. that's what we're aiming for. his strategy is radically different than any that has been tried there before. his point is, it's not the size of the force that we put in afghanistan and he would argue that we're way too preoccupied at least inside the beltway discussion about resources and we need to be much more focused on changing the strategy, changing how we behave on the ground in afghanistan. if we were able to win the trust and confidence of the afghan people and if they trust we are there by their side and committed to being there for the duration, he believes that we can succeed and the secretary, i think, is growing increasingly comfortable with that notion. as you said, he has said publicly, he was too worried about having a foreign footprint in afghanistan for fear it was viewed as an occupying force. it's not the size of the force, it's how that force behaves and he does believe right now that the afghan people do not have a problem with us, the coalition forces or even a

i was on the ground with general mcchrystal. we knew then that the taliban was taking over the country. there is no debate. the taliban has resurrected itself and become strong. i don't believe there's any evidence that it will back off and become a threat. there is no equivocation here. the other thing we of to realize -- the other thing we have to realize is that you need stability and the reason. part of the focuses on stability here. the taliban is a threat to the ultimate stability, something we must look at realistically. jane: lieutenant-colonel, thank you. we will keep watching. thanks. jon: an explosion of violence in somalia where rival militias are battling to keep their forces under control. federal agents are keeping a close eye. after year of seen the terrorist groups, counter-terrorism groups say that they should be setting their sights on the united states. we're live in washington with new information. is this group seeing -- is this group seen as a threat? >> what is being documented is at least one american ha

>> it's very unusual for a uniformed officer to speak the way general mcchrystal has. don't forget that the contents of his briefing memo were leaked last week in which it said essentially the same thing, responded to by vice president biden saying that general mcchrystal really didn't know what he was talking about, we're supposed to fight al qaeda alone and not care about taliban and then the secretary of state came down on general mcchrystal's side. it is very unusual for us to see this public squabbling. >> okay. then we know the president had that 25-minute face-to-face conversation in copenhagen. what do you, sir, think we should be doing in afghanistan? >> in an ideal world we pour as many troops as we can of the types that we require that include special forces, intelligence troops, and stay there as long as we need to in order to secure each of the areas that are dangerous, including pakistan. but that's an ideal world. that's not going to happen. it's particularly not going to happen when we're only months away from a mid-term election year and the congress i

general mcchrystal has been the one out there talking last week. clearly the general has his own ideas. they tried to accomplish the strategy from before, and you might see growing pains in the fact that there is a big national security in engagement happening the way that it is right now. >> is the argument being seen that the more killing did you do, the more they will turn against that? about whether they're going to increase the numbers or slow it down? >> the aircraft's, officially creating more targets. joe biden has been talking about that publicly, that the good way to handle this is similar to how they are handling al qaeda in pakistan. it seems that the republicans are saying, john mccain has been out there, saying that we need to look at what general mcchrystal is saying, bringing the same strategy that we brought to iraq to afghanistan. shepard: good to see you. when he makes a decision, you will call us? >> you know it. shepard: thank you. they said they believed that their faith would heal their dying daughter. they did not go to the

general mcchrystal has to follow it. can you understand? >> general mcchrystal's responsibility is to say okay, you want me to accomplish this mission, this is what it will take to accomplish that mission. the president can say yes or no or make another adjustment. i hope that the president does not make a compromise with the mission remains the same and the general has his hands tied behind his back. bill: we will see exactly what comes out of this white house. bipartisan members of the house and senate, he said that he believes within 18 months afghanistan could be secure. that is a tall order. >> i would say that general mcchrystal is at the top of this list. numbers and approves, only a different strategy. he needs to be backed up all of the way if we are going to be in afghanistan. bill: just so that our viewers understand, this is not like where they set up an outpost, then going out and getting them. i think that the general is requesting that only the population centers be focused on to keep the people say. is that the right course?

and i think that general mcchrystal and the others in the chain of command will present the president with not just one option, which does, in fact, tend to have a -- you know, forcing function, but a range of options that the president can consider. >> by all accounts, president obama's decision on afghanistan is not going to be easy, unlike iraq, 98% of the afghans are ill literate. the country is one of the poorest on earth, and one of the stories that worked in iraq, such as dealing with tribal leaders are not a possibility in afghanistan. earlier today, defense secretary gates urged patience and backed up the comment from jones requesting that u.s. commanders give advice to the president in private. >> so it is important that we take our time to do all we can to get this right. and in this process, it is imperative that all of us taking part in these deliberations, civilians and military alike, provide our best advice to the president candidly, but privately. >> nbc news correspondent chuck jones joins us live. we're seeing one campaign by mcchrystal to give us troops and the oth