now to our panel we have joining our sin boston by skype glenn carr former career cia officer and the former deputy national intelligence officer of the trans national threats and scott lucas a professor of american studies at the university of birmingham in thank you for joining us gentlemen let me start with glen so how does the cia typically investigate and reach a conclusion like this without getting you to you know obviously speculate on what the cia actually has. right well i don't need to speculate at all on how the process functions inside there from the lowest level up to the very top from my career a to what we call as a tasking it will be a request for information will come or we may develop it ourselves who ordered the killing of his show for example and then it's sent out to all of the conceivable. parts of the intelligence community not just the cia to human sources which is where i spent my career working on or to tactical sources be they from satellites or telephone taps or interviews open source media and so on each report is then sent back and each report is evaluate

so glenn if we have this sort of scenario which everyone expects of continued resistance from the white house to take any sort of tougher approach toward saudi arabia beyond what the white house has already done how do you think intelligence agencies like the cia might deal with that sort of situation. well i think i think. we're pretty well there you won't get. substance of agreement or action from the white house you might have the white house constrained from constrained to accept or at least put his signature on a sanction for example but then he wouldn't give it any life which is what he did with russia he will pay lip service to say something and then change the subject and simply ignore anyone who works in in a federal bureaucracy or probably any institution. learns early on as i did that if you receive in an order that you think is ill advisor you don't want to do you put it in the bottom of the inbox and then when your boss says what's happening you say i'm right on it sir and then you go on to something else and it's very difficult to move a large institution like that i think

s this position won't be happening in the near future glenn from the perspective of the intelligence community why do they think there is so much resistance from the white house to put pressure on saudi arabia and to protect the u.s. saudi relationship with their you're asking intelligence officer american intelligence officers to assess american politics and of course we are we are supposed to receive our instructions and salute and say yes or yes ma'am. conservatives republicans have strongly identified with saudi arabia one could argue that this is because solely because of. astronomical contributions by saudi elements to companies and to quote political figures but then there's the broader. realist strategic assessment that saudi arabia is necessary for the stability of the middle east and that the sunni on the whole are not a revolutionary powers as iran is i don't i think the assessment frankly has been accepted in conservative circles in the united states for a long time now that iran is not a revolutionary power it is an expansionary power seeking at least regional influence

and what exactly is the united states willing to do to control at least parts of that relationship glenn could this be an indication that these senate or the some political establishments of the united states of america would like to scrutinize relations with saudi arabia more than ever. i think that's part of it yes as karen said but i think the immediate reason for the rare pushback by some members of the senate to the white house in the last two years just now is the assassination and the fact that trump and pump aoe and even matters are sort of carrying the water for the crown prince to protect him but the three reasons that karen stated are important. i would only differ in one way and i am not convinced that the american public is paying much attention to yemen at all but i think that the congress members are starting to and there are too there's a rising feeling or that it's no longer acceptable for us to enable a. a war that is only causing problems for all concerned rather than resolving them he. assumed that within a week from now we see a push by the white house to try to diss

and what exactly is the united states willing to do to control at least parts of that relationship glenn could this be an indication that these senate or the some political establishments of the united states of america would like to scrutinize relations with saudi arabia more than ever. i think that's part of it yes as karen said but i think the immediate reason for the rare pushback by some members of the senate to the white house in the last two years just now is the assassination and the fact that trump and pump a.o. and now even matters are sort of carrying the water for the crown prince to protect him but the three reasons that karen stated are important. i would only differ in one way and i am not convinced that the american public is paying much attention to yemen at all but i think that the congress members are starting to and there are two there's a rising feeling or that it's no longer acceptable for us to enable a. a war that is only causing problems for all concerned rather than resolving them he. assumed that within a week from now we see a push by the white house to try to

now to our panel we have joining our sin boston by skype glenn carr former career cia officer and the former deputy national intelligence officer of the transnational threats and scott lucas a professor of american studies at the university of birmingham in thank you for joining us gentlemen let me start with glen so how does the cia typically investigate and reach a conclusion like this without getting you to you know obviously speculate on what the cia actually has. right well i don't need to speculate at all on how the process functions inside there from the lowest level up to the very top from my career a to what we call as a tasking it will be a request for information will come or we may develop it ourselves who ordered the killing of his show for example and then it's sent out to all of the conceivable. parts of the intelligence community not just the cia to human sources which is where i spent my career working on or to tactical sources be they from satellites or telephone taps or interviews open source media and so on each report is then sent back and each report is evaluated

now to our panel we have joining our sin boston by skype glenn carr former career cia officer and the former deputy national intelligence officer of the trans national threats and scott lucas a professor of american studies at the university of birmingham in thank you for joining us gentlemen let me start with glen so how does the cia typically investigate and reach a conclusion like this without getting you to you know obviously speculate on what the cia actually has. right well i don't need to speculate at all on how the process functions inside there from the lowest level up to the very top from my career a to what we call as a tasking it will be a request for information will come or we may develop it ourselves who ordered the killing of his show for example and then it's sent out to all of the conceivable. parts of the intelligence community not just cia to human sources which is where i spent my career working on or to tactical sources be they from satellites or telephone taps or interviews open source media and so on each report is then sent back and each report is evaluated mu

now to our panel we have joining our sin boston by skype glenn carr former career cia officer and the former deputy national intelligence officer of the transnational threats and scott lucas a professor of american studies at the university of birmingham in thank you for joining us gentlemen let me start with glen so how does the cia typically investigate and reach a conclusion like this without getting you to you know obviously speculate on what the cia actually has. right well i don't need to speculate at all on how the process functions inside there from the lowest level up to the very top from my career a to what we call as a tasking it will be a request for information will come or we may develop it ourselves who ordered the killing of his show for example and then it's sent out to all of the conceivable. parts of the intelligence community not just cia to human sources which is where i spent my career working on or to tactical sources be they from satellites or telephone taps or interviews open source media and so on each report is then sent back and each report is evaluated mul

glenn is russia trying to undermine petro poroshenko ahead of ukraine's presidential election. no shank was already polling quite poorly i think the people who'd vote for him now is in the single digits so he's far from the favorite and if anything i think this crisis would help him to rise up the polls even possibly now establishing martial law. setting it to favor himself or at least to boost his own popularity indure things so i see this as being favoring his presidency rather than undermining it by showing him that he's able to stand up against russia and also getting the support of the americans and the british i would point out however that it's not really clear what has happened so far. all we know is that. the laws which are supposed to determine who who can control this water says of course linked to the sovereignty of crimea now given that russia considers crimea to be part of russian territory and ukraine believes as part of ukraine they will both refer to the un convention on the law of the sea in order to claim a right of the territorial waters now luckily we have

associate professor at the national defense university and a former pentagon official and in moscow glenn dyson a professor of a. national relations at higher school of economics from moscow and author of the decay of western civilization and research and of russia welcome to all of you so. let's revisit the words of the man will not grown from yesterday when he said patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism he went on to say our first interests who cares about the cares about the others i mean start with you or no what do you make of. the words the timing the setting. i think what is important is that. i'm a coin paris wanted to defend multilateralism. in front of trump that actually rejects multilateralism we have seen that for climate change us in that for iran with the scene that for i.m.f. and many other treaties. is things britain macor things that european union is the most important creation political creation of the post-war era when donald trump criticizes. your opinion as being some kind of jail for the nations of europe so these ar

associate professor at the national defense university and a former pentagon official and in moscow glenn dyson a professor of a. national relations at higher school of economics from moscow and author of the decay of western civilization and research and of russia welcome to all of you so. let's revisit the words of the men will not grown from yesterday when he said patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism he went on to say our first interests who cares about the cares about the others i mean start with you or no what do you make of. the words the timing the setting. i think what is important is that. i'm a coin paris wanted to defend multilateralism. in front of trump that actually rejects multilateralism we have seen that for climate change us in that for iran with a scene that for i.m.f. and many other treaties. is things britain macor things that european union is the most important creation political creation of the post-war era when donald trump criticizes. your opinion as being some kind of jail for the nations of europe so these are

associate professor at the national defense university and a former pentagon official and in moscow glenn dyson a professor of a. national relations at higher school of economics from moscow and author of the decay of western civilization and research and of russia welcome to all of you so. let's revisit the words of the man will not grown from yesterday when he said patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism he went on to say our first interests who cares about the cares about the others i mean start with you or no what do you make of. the words the timing the setting. i think what is important is that. i'm a coin paris wanted to defend multilateralism. in front of trump that actually rejects multilateralism we have seen that for climate change us in that for iran with a scene that for i.m.f. and many other treaties. is things britain macor things that european union is the most important creation political creation of the post-war era when donald trump criticizes. your opinion as being some kind of jail for the nations of europe so there is r

glenn is russia trying to undermine petro poroshenko ahead of ukraine's presidential election. no. already polling quite poorly i think the people who vote for him now is in the single digits so he's far from the favorite and if anything i think this crisis would help him to rise up the polls even possibly now establishing martial law. setting it to favor himself or at least to boost his own popularity indure things so i see this as being favoring his presidency rather than undermining it by showing him that he's able to stand up against russia and also getting the support of the americans and the british i would point out however that it's not really clear what has happened so far. all we know is that. the laws which are supposed to determine who who can control this water says of course linked to the sovereignty of crimea now given that russia considers crimea to be part of russian territory and ukraine believes as part of ukraine they will both refer to the un convention on the law of the sea in order to claim a right of the territorial waters now luckily we have the two tho

that their little institutions of the time i'm speaking of course of lessons you did in the us you glenn do you agree with with that assessment from a no that promised talking about cyberwar well i think i could on left some deliberate strategic ambiguity within his comment because he obviously wants to take a swipe at trump i guess therapy and so i felt a bit insulted by trump over the. last year or so they would like to think that both for the mystical audience but also for a bit of a push back there some incentive to come with a little insult i guess i don't think actually that the french wants to build an army against americans of course i would never push back on the european union small to lotro listen though it's it doesn't really it does push it sometimes in the global slayer but in the regional syria especially when it comes to relations with russia i haven't really seen any multilateral initiatives if anything the e.u. tends to try to use the collective strength of its twenty eight member states for a symmetrical leverage against any of its partner especially russia then so i t

glenn is russia trying to undermine petro poroshenko ahead of ukraine's presidential election. no. already polling quite poorly i think the people who would vote for him now is in the single digits so he's far from the favorite and if anything i think this crisis would help him to rise up the polls even possibly now establishing martial law. setting it to favor himself or at least to boost his own popularity indure ting's so i see this as being favoring his presidency rather than undermining it by showing him that he's able to stand up against russia and also getting the support of the americans and the british i would point out however that it's not really clear what has happened so far. all we know is that. the laws which are supposed to determine who who can control this water says of course linked to the sovereignty of crimea now given that russia considers crimea to be part of russian territory and ukraine believes as part of ukraine they will both refer to the un convention on the law of the sea in order to claim a right of the territorial waters now luckily we have the t

glenn is russia trying to undermine petro poroshenko ahead of ukraine's presidential election. no shank was already polling quite poorly i think the people who'd vote for him now is in the single digits so he's far from the favorite and if anything i think this crisis would help him to rise up the polls even possibly now establishing martial law. setting it to favor himself or at least to boost his own popularity indure things so i see this as being favoring his presidency rather than undermining it by showing him that he's able to stand up against russia and also getting the support of the americans and the british i would point out however that it's not really clear what has happened so far. all we know is that. the laws which are supposed to determine who who can control this water says of course linked to the sovereignty of crimea now given that russia considers crimea to be part of russian territory and ukraine believes as part of ukraine they will both refer to the un convention on the law of the sea in order to claim a right of the territorial waters now luckily we have

associate professor at the national defense university and a former pentagon official and in moscow glenn dyson a professor of a. national relations at higher school of economics from moscow and author of the decay of western civilization and research and of russia welcome to all of you so. let's revisit the words of a man will not grown from yesterday when he said patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism he went on to say our first interests who cares about the cares about the others i mean start with you or no what do you make of. words the timing the setting. i think what is important is that. i'm a coin paris wanted to defend multilateralism. in front of trump that actually rejects multilateralism we have seen that for climate change us in that for iran with a scene that for i.m.f. and many other treaties. is things britain macor things that european union is the most important creation political creation of the post-war era when donald trump criticizes. your opinion as being some kind of jail for the nations of europe so there is really

politician will wrestle in riyadh the mayor of knox county it glenn jacobs known as the w w e fans as cain is part of the main event. has also gone into this deal knowing that its women's wrestlers are not allowed to perform in saudi arabia also biggest star john cena won't be there he refused to work the show according to reports and has been removed from the card the rest of this however are not a game in a way much about the situation. or are you know we pulled out all right if you could do so much with your still full cup when all the rest were were at the airport all week you're. going to get a lot out there. the best course because i'm with jargon five years right we're going to go make that now they want me i'm sorry i'm going to start ok respect gov all right now have a safe trip take care. now from your castle in the u.k. is adam carry the imagined editor of what culture dot com covers the professional wrestling and the first of all is that going ahead with this show in saudi arabia is all about the money. i think it's all about the money in a sense that every business decisi

this man was a career cia operative his name is glenn hall he vividly remembers his first impression of one cia interrogation cound in an unnamed country. inside it is immediately. pitch black. as black as any darkness you have ever experienced. you cannot. eat you you could not see your fingers here in front of absolute darkness. and disorienting and deafening. silence a brutal regime designed to undermine prisoners sense of self and induce helpless dependent. we think unconsciously that. the sun will rise once a day and then sets into the day that's one of the defining unthought of realities of life not if you're in the hands of the cia we can make the sun shine or not. when he had been assigned to interrogate a captured prison and he's been destination out what he was expected to do. so the instructions were you will do whatever it takes to get him to talk do you understand and then it was pressure him pressure him it was the word frequently used pressure him turn up the pressure on him. be creative and i was literally literally stunned i responded we don't do that he said well we

this man was a career cia operative his name is glenn paul he vividly remembers his first impression of one cia interrogation cound in an unnamed country. inside it is immediately. pitch black. as black as any darkness you have ever experienced. you cannot see. if you could not see your fingers here in front of absolute darkness. and disorienting and deafening. silence a brutal regime designed to undermine prison his sense of self and induce helpless dependence we thank unconsciously that. the sun will rise once a day and then sets into the day that's one of the defining unthought of realities life not if you're in the hands of the cia we can make the sun shine or not. when he had been assigned to interrogate a captured prisoner he'd been daft in nature out what he was expected to do. so the instructions were you will do whatever it takes to get him to talk do you understand and then it was pressure him pressure him it was the word frequently used pressure him turn up the pressure on him. be creative and i was literally literally stunned i responded we don't do that. he said well we

briefing on saudi arabia in which some reports say that the cia chief is unlikely to appear let's bring in glenn collins a former cia officer joins us live from boston massachusetts den call how significant is it that the white house possibly would be able to block the director of the cia from appearing before the senate i mean clearly some people say that trumps trying to protect mohamed bin sound but this is pretty unprecedented isn't it. i think it is unprecedented i've never heard of something like this of course the white house wants to control information and what it considers classified information or operations of the cia that's not that is not surprising but the congress has a legal rights and obligations as a co equal branch of the united states government with the executive with the president to exercise oversight of the intelligence process part of that includes being briefed on the most sensitive matters there are all sorts of procedures to do this but the white house the president may not interfere with congress' right to understand what the cia believes are the facts as it's been

territorial claims rights the crimea and against about this has been going on for thirty years very briefly glenn you want to respond to that. well there if this is a reference that in one thousand nine hundred ninety ninety seven agreement it's worth noting that the blue cross agreement also suggested. the u.s. britain and russia would all respect their political autonomy while this the territorial integrity of ukraine so i guess after the coup in two thousand and fourteen there was an interest that while this was considered to be broken by russia as well now i do agree though that this conflict us two dimensions on one hand you have two different identities so well broadly to a dentist in ukraine there which never really harmonized which is why the country has been so divided in terms of how it explains its close relations with russia i mean how fast the country out of the country arguing that this is. purely relink others arguing that they're essentially been historical brothers the same people so it is a conflict which has been taken over by foreign powers and i'm sorry i've got to interrupt

politicians have been critical but one of them is actually wrestling mayor of knox county tennessee glenn jacobs known to w w e funds as cain is part of the main event that w.w. has also gone into the deal knowing that its women wrestlers are not allowed to perform in saudi arabia and their biggest star john cena isn't there he refused to work the show according to reports others wrestlers though saying they need the money. i didn't know we hold out for a book of children so most of us here still go cup of warm water the rest of the world where we're at the airport oh yeah. you are going to get a lot of publicity of course because of with georgia five years right you're going to go make that dollar they want me inside i'm going to get respect governor all right now have a safe trip take care. well earlier we spoke to adam clary the managing editor of entertainment wrestling website what culture dot com he said wrestlers pulling out of vans like this was incredibly unusual john xena's absence from the show is a huge deal but perhaps not so much for the show itself as it is behind the scene

politicians have been critical but one of them is actually wrestling mayor of knox county tennessee glenn jacobs known to w w e funds as cain is part of the main event that we do we has also gone into the deal knowing that it's women wrestlers are not allowed to perform in saudi arabia and their biggest star john cena isn't there he refused to work the show according to reports others wrestlers though saying they need the money. i didn't know we called out for a walk to the motor so yourself your cup of warm water was. where the airport oh yeah. you can get a lot of their publicity of course because i'm with the jargon five q right we're going to go make that hour they want me inside i'm going to get respect get better all right now have a safe trip to europe or lower we spoke to adam clary the managing editor of entertainment wrestling website what culture dot com he said wrestlers pulling out for events like this was incredibly unusual john seen as absence from the show is a huge deal but perhaps not so much for the show itself as it is behind the scenes like for the actual show don't w

politicians have been critical but one of them is actually wrestling bear of knox county tennessee glenn jacobs known to fans as cain is part of the main events the w w e has also gone into this deal knowing that it's women wrestlers are not allowed to perform in saudi the biggest star jones say you know won't be there he refused to work the show according to reports and has been removed from the card other wrestlers though say they need the money. i didn't know he pulled out or i could sue so most of us here still go cup or most of the rest of the world world we're at the airport are we. doing it right you can get a lot of publicity of course because of with the jargon of five q. right we're going to go make that hour we want me i'm sorry i'm going to start to get respect governor all right now have a safe trip take care well earlier we spoke to adam clary the managing editor of entertainment and wrestling website what culture dot com he said wrestlers pulling out of events like this was incredibly unusual. john xena's absence from the show is a huge deal but perhaps not so much for the

politician will wrestle in riyadh mare of knox county glenn jacobs known to fans as cain is part of the main event. has also gone into this deal knowing that it's women wrestlers are not allowed to perform in saudi arabia that biggest star john cena won't be there he refused to work the show according to reports and has been removed from the card the wrestlers however are not giving away very much about the situation. roy i didn't know we pulled out or i will get sued so most of us here still go up almost the rest were were at the airport oh yeah. you can get a lot of publicity of course because i'm with georgia five kids right we're going to go make that now they want me in saudi i'm going to saudi again respect that now you know all right now obviously try to take your well earlier we spoke to adam kaleri the managing editor of entertainment and wrestling website what culture dot com he said russell is pulling out of events like this was incredibly unusual. john xena's absence from the show is a huge deal but perhaps not so much for the show itself as it is behind the scenes like the

my glenn it would be now looks on as the last of her four daughters at an ice prepares to get on a bus with her two grandchildren the fifty nine year old public servant still has a job but can barely survive on her wage it diminishes by the hour because of hyperinflation and now like hundreds of thousands of others her age and older she is being left on her own saying goodbye. as another bus load leaves the terminal full of people convinced they'll be better off anywhere else. my lin it must be very difficult to watch the bus just take off with so many members of your family they feasted one door to the high court room but i. won't be so i mean you have one will steal the end did a mentally unstable windows to come across a deck or out of either. although for less it was two and then five east. and both say go all pins are but a second by east the simplest yet you go by so at a glance they don't know me ok you have four mccain might be good by the number maybe no one but yeah you know. what it's doing and then you pull out my little below but i'll go make the big thing minutes or less

sanctions imposed by the united states treasury for the moment leave it there thanks very much let's join glenn karl he's a former deputy national intelligence officer for the trans national threats the cia joins me now via skype from boston in massachusetts good to have you with us on the program a newspaper report wouldn't go ahead and report such explosive you might say information without being one hundred percent sure that the information is coming from a very secure and reliable source and it's a great deal of pressure on the cia to come forward to make a statement. well you know i don't think that it is a great deal of pressure the cia will probably will not comment on this kind of report however the washington post wouldn't report this unless they were accurately reporting what they believe the cia said so which is a slight nuance now one can anticipate that the congressional oversight committees will have been briefed or demand to be briefed on this and there gina haswell or senior representative from the agency will go and present the assessments the assessments are necessarily true a

offer to low glenn somebody who president earlier one insists was responsible for coup attempt in turkey turkey has been insistent that the u.s. must repatriate him however so far the u.s. has declined to do so he does have a green card he has residence in the united states but certainly this conversation the fact that it took place or a clear indication that relations between the u.s. and the turkey are getting better it would appear and certainly that is good news if there's going to be any cooperation and joint and perhaps even joint investigation on the issue of jamal khashoggi or for the moment mike will leave it there thank you. now all muslims around the world have been remembering saudi journalist she joining friday prayers that he gathered at mosques in indonesia turkey saudi arabia and the united kingdom and recent reports from istanbul. forty five days after jamal khashoggi murder they come to pray with a grief that permeates a gray rainy day. all the more poignant because of the empty space of the most solid stone here where a coffin should rest one of the show jews friends s

politicians have been critical but one of them is actually wrestling mayor of knox county tennessee glenn jacobs known to w w e funds as cain is part of the main event that w.w. has also gone into the deal knowing that it's women wrestlers are not allowed to perform in saudi arabia and the biggest star john cena isn't there he refused to work the show according to reports others wrestlers though saying they need the money. all right i didn't know we pulled out or i was able to get sued so most of us here still go public with almost the rest we're we're we're at the airport only you can do you can get a lot of publicity for us because i'm with all ga five kids right we're going to go make that dollar they want me in saudi i'm going to saudi get respect get married all right now have a safe trip to europe well earlier we spoke to adam clary the managing editor of entertainment wrestling website what culture dot com he said wrestlers pulling out to events like this was incredibly unusual. john xena's absence from the show is a huge deal but perhaps not so much for the show itself as it is be