of those coming up next week with the governor's office, the attorney general, law enforcement and chp. right now the first priority is making sure that our retail stores are safe, and our employees are protected and our customers have that great shopping experience. but, you know, it is -- it is like nothing we have seen before. i think in california, we have to have a lot of uncomfortable conversations about some of the laws that have been passed. some of the consequences for this type of behavior. and how do we go forward. because we can no longer let this happen. this is not california. this is not what we're about. and we need to make sure that we do everything we can to give law enforcement, asset protection, retailers and particularly our small businesses the tools they need to protect their employees and their customers. >> yeah, the former philadelphia police commissioner charles ramsey told us earlier they need more of a deterrence here, there aren't enough consequences. we'll see how this plays out. rachel michelin, thank you for joining us on this today. >> thank you for ha

even the chp california highway patrol which has had a task force to stop this for three years, they don't have good numbers. fewer than half as many arrests as investigations. so is there a better way? we have the chief administrative officer and general counsel with the national retail federation. good to have you. >> thanks. it is good to be here. >> you say look at the video, sure. but don't let it be a distraction from the real problem. you say, it's the organized nature. and the only way to get at it is to look at where these things are fenced or sold. what do you see there? >> well, woe see a variety of tactics there, chris. we see the good old fashioned traditional tactic of tables down at st. mark's place, things spread out at a local park a few blocks away. i know our members have seen that in san francisco. they've seen it in other cities as well. but of course there is the internet and in the last ten to 12 years that has definitely been the factor that has really changed the way things are sold and frankly made it easier for people who want to develop and participate in