this mississippi case, of course, as i think the anti-choice person said, what the mississippi attorney general is saying, you should overturn roe completely. that means, take away this right completely. and it's really important to understand, this is being argued with the backdrop of the texas abortion ban, which has now been in effect for almost three months. especially in the state of texas, roe does not exist. and this supreme court has done nothing, nothing to intervene and to protect that right, so the stakes could not be higher today in this argument before the supreme court. >> cecile richards, thank you very much for being with me this morning. i want to turn to our all-star panel, neal katyal, former acting u.s. solicitor general, has argued dozens of cases in front of the u.s. supreme court. i also want to bring in maya wiley, a civil rights attorney. and joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney. lucky for me to have the opportunity to be with you on this very important day. neal, let me talk first about what we're going to be seeing and actually hearing here on msnbc this mornin

>> in mississippi. >> my name is missy jones. my title is a visiting instructor of history at mississippi college. >> how long have you been working on the clinton riots? >> almost 15 years now, if i think back. >> what is this? >> this is johnson milling company. it's been here for ages, but right behind it is the location of the old train depot. and the thought was that we would put the marker for the clinton riot here because of the importance of the train depot. the clinton riots began on september 4th, 1875. and the diorama behind me tells a version of those events. the original train depot is where white paramilitary units flocked into clinton. there was a political rally, and it was one of the first times that african americans had gotten together to really listen to political candidates. and it was organized by the republican party, but there was also a group of white democrats who were sent there to disrupt things. shots rang out. african american families began to flee the scene. even one mother left her child in the ho

the mississippi law is 15 weeks. roe v. wade is 24 weeks or at viability. and we know that that is an honest and effective definition, but also it is an effective line to draw. and you're right, six weeks -- no one is able to discern whether they're pregnant or not. and that means the victim of incest, a 13-year-old girl, or the victim of rape -- what's happening now is those who have means, who are able economically can flee. mostly to oklahoma. can you believe it? that is not a liberal state. they're fleeing to oklahoma. but the actual crisis takes me back to the bountyhunters of slaves who were attempting to free themselves out of the bondage of slavery. we have now put 21st century women, texas women, college students, poor women, rape victims, incest victims, and we have made them the victims of bounty hunters. senator klobuchar and i have introduced the anti-vigilante bill that we want to push through right now. we want the supreme court to throw both bills -- excuse me, both laws out, but our vigilante bill makes those bounty hunters that would get $

does the state of mississippi get to tell women in mississippi they have no control over their own lives? that means a lot about abortion and reproductive care, and it means a lot about the status of women in our society. >> that's the important part. joyce, thanks. so good to see you in person. may there be many more such occasions. joyce vance, former united states attorney, professor at university of alabama school of law, and also the cohost of the sisters in law podcast. thanks for watching velshi. catch me here every saturday and sunday morning. the sunday show with jonathan capehart begins right now. >>> the biden agenda is facing critical deadlines. a complicating economy, and a new covid variant. white house official karine jean-pierre is here to talk about it all live. >>> the parents of the michigan school shooting suspect have been charged and i'll ask david hogg what it will take to stop the next school shooting. >>> and my conversation with the mayor of san francisco as her city became the first to report the omicron variant in the united states. i'm jonathan capehart. this

sterilized, in the state of mississippi. it's hard to take seriously these states who say their efforts are out of love and care when in fact that's never been shown in the arc of history in these states regarding black women or girls or generally any women who happen to be vulnerable and poor in those states. >> it seems if the court rules in the way it seemed to be leaning, toward in effect overturning roe v. wade, what roe v. wade is at this point protecting in america are the rights of poor women, women who don't have significant means, who live in republican-controlled states, who will then change the laws and restrict abortion or ban abortion completely. the wealthy women in those states will easily be able to travel to other states that provide abortion services. and of course the big democratic states will preserve abortion rights as they have them now. and so a majority of the population, actually, will be living under democratic state governments that preserve all of roe and more. and so it's really at this point t

no republican woman, rich woman in mississippi, not one republican rich daughter in mississippi would ever be affected by the change in the law that the state of mississippi is asking the court to approve. it would just be economically disadvantaged women in mississippi who would then find themselves struggling to somehow come up with the money to be able to travel to another state in the pursuit of liberty. justice sonia sotomayor made the point about how many supreme court justices including republican appointed supreme court justices have supported roe vs. wade over decades and what it will mean if the current republican supreme court justices decide to overturn it. >> the right of a woman to choose, the right to control her own body has been clearly set since casey and never challenged. you want us to reject that line of viability and adopt something different. 15 justices over 50 years have -- or i should say 30 since casey -- have reaffirmed that basic viability line. four have said no. two of them members of this court. but 15 justices have said yes. of varying political backgr

it is texas, mississippi, it is always somebody else with him. it's never his job, his institution to stop it. that's why kavanaugh is making this argument and in many other mainstream sources picked up that argument, because they are always willing to blame someone else for that this conservative court is doing, taking away. >> legitimacy between bush v gore, gutting the voting rights act, allowing the muslim vote to stand. i don't think -- >> joining us, conwoman iona presley of massachusetts. i have to ask you this as a fellow black women, as a sister. listening today for me, congresswoman, to two men, clarence thomas and brett kavanaugh, who were credibly accused of violating the sanctity of woman, both got away with it and got on court. but having them stand up and soberly argue whether or not women are owned by the state. it made me feel some kind of way. i wonder if it did you. >> i will stick with you and be in alignment with the verbiage you used already in this segment, join. unprecedented, rancid and i will offer one more word, predict

those states include arkansas, missouri, mississippi, tennessee, illinois, and kentucky. in one case in kentucky where it's feared the death toll could surpass 100, the governor says they believe a tornado touched down and carved a 250-mile path across at least four states, which, if true, would be a record-breaking twister. president biden addressing those affected by the storms a short time ago. >> it's profound. it's just profound. but i promise you, whatever is needed, whatever is needed, the federal government is going to find a way to supply it. >> for more, we turn to mayfield, kentucky, where we find nbc news correspondent wendy woolfolk. what's the latest there? >> reporter: steven, good evening to you. the waiting is really weighing on people now that the temperatures are dropping and darkness is falling, making the situation gone from bad to even worse. no new numbers to report at this point. 40 people were rescued from what's left of the candle factory behind us. governor andy beshear saying it will have to be a miracle to find anyone else alive in this rubble

arkansas, missouri, mississippi, tennessee, illinois and kentucky. and one case in kentucky where it's feared the death toll could surpass 100, the governor says they believed the tornado touched down and carved a 250 mile path across the united states which if true would be a record breaking twister. president biden addressing those affected by the storms a short time ago. >> i mean, it's profound. it's just profound. and it's -- but i promise you, whatever is needed, whatever is needed the federal government is going to find a way to supply it. >> we turn to mayfield, kentucky where we find wendy. where are you and what's the latest there? >> reporter: steven, good evening to you. the waiting is really weighing on people now that the temperatures are dropping and darkness has fallen, making the situation gone from bad to even worse. no new numbers to report at this point. 40 people were rescued from what's left of the candle factory behind us. the governor saying it will have to be a miracle to find anyone else alive in this rubble. but the governo

maybe that's because the state of mississippi is so brazen and what it's asking. so confident that the three justices appointed by donald trump, who promised he would appoint justices to overturn and roe appears to have delivered on that promise -- maybe the only one he's delivered to have it if -- mississippi is confident those justices will rule in their favor. so, today, they were cleansed. if they don't just want the mississippi law upheld with the 16 weeks. they want roe overturned. done. they want to take this right away from americans have had it for generations. they want to kill roe and they want to kill the 1992 decision that held it, planned parenthood versus casey. this is a portion of the opening arguments in the mississippi solicitor general john stewart. >> roe v. wade and planned parenthood versus casey haunted our country. they have no basis in the constitution. they have no home nor history or traditions. they've damaged the democratic process. they've poison the law. they've choked off compromise. roe and casey have failed, but the people, if gi

it doesn't say anything about whether or not mississippi and every state that wants to do what mississippi is doing can roll back abortion rights. but what it does mean, and one of the things that the justices were very concerned about in oral arguments and rightly so, was how many other constitutional rights could you expend this strategy? so, you don't want people to have a constitutional right to do certain things, you can just say, we the state will just say, we'll create a civil law that says, anybody for any reason can bring a $10,000 damages clause against you for doing this thing we don't want you to do, even if the supreme court says it's constitutional. >> and that could be anything! that could be any number of things, right? >> it could be any number of things. i'm just making this up, but if we took it to its logical conclusion, if this stood, you could have a state saying, you know what, we won't say you don't have a right to contraception, to condoms or other forms of contraception, but what we will say is, anybody can sue you for selling them. >> i want to go to pete william

forcibly sterilized in the state of mississippi. it's hard to take seriously these states who say their efforts are out of love and care when in fact that's never been shown in the arc of history in these states regarding black women or girls or generally any women who happen to be vulnerable and poor in those states. >> it seems if the court rules in the way it seemed to be leaning, towarddon't have signi who live in republican-controlled states, who will then change the laws and restrict abortion or ban abortion completely. the wealthy women in those states will easily be able to travel to other states that provide abortion services. and of course the big democratic states will preserve abortion rights as they have them now. and so a majority of the population, actually, will be living under democratic state governments that preserve all of roe and more. and so it's really at this point the protection that was being debated really in the supreme court was really just a protection of women who don't have the means to create their o

no republican woman, rich woman in mississippi, not one republican rich daughter in mississippi would ever be affected by the change in the law that the state of mississippi is asking the court to approve. it would just be economically disadvantaged women in mississippi, who would then find themselves struggling to somehow come up with the money to be able to travel to another state in the pursuit of liberty. justice sonia sotomayor, made the point about -- have supported roe v. wade over decades, and what it will mean if the current republican supreme court justices decide to overturn. >> the right of a woman to choose, the right to control her own body, the has been clearly set for us since casey and never challenged. you want us to reject that line of viability and adopt something different. 15 justices over 50 years have -- or should i say 30 since casey have reaffirmed that basic viability line for have said no, two of the members of the score. he four have said no, two of the members of the score, but 15 justices have said yes, a varying political backgrounds. now the sponsors o

the mississippi ban was put in place by people who said we have new jss on the court. they were the justices appointed by donald trump. to the larger question, what damage has been done to the supreme court by the line of questioning about a law that was put in place because of who they were, of who got those spots? >> i worry deeply about the court's ability to survive what she called that political stench. the idea of stary zisis, that you can't willy-nilly overturn a decision, which important for our full democracy. it allows us to rely on the facts that the court will poll precedent, won't sway left to right depending on who is president or who is in congress and that there have to be really special circumstances -- none of which are present here. that is what is so unusual in this argument. they weren't just asking about precedent in stary zisis. several times they said assume this is a matter of first impression, assume we are deciding this for the first time. we are not. we have had five decades of roe. >> she references other amendments. kavanaugh seems to be s

you know, alabama, virginia, mississippi. when we are looking at vulnerability and the potentially in the face of a more transmissible, you know, variant, the best thing that we can do, if we are not panic and getting ready, right, the best thing is to make sure we get the rates up and continue that vigilance going into this surge. >> does the variant mean we have to change our behavior or return to our prescribed behavior? i am asking in light of what i'm assuming is your support for an extended mask mandate on public transportation in this country into the spring, into next march. is this a way of not putting something new on us, buttics tending, getting us back into what we know to be best behavior? >> i think we have to realize that, you know, the end of the pandemic is not around the corner, you know. but we always knew this. we knew that before omicron. we knew that we were going into a winter surge and even from that perspective, i think, you know, in many parts of the this country we are seeing the winter surge and th

who were forcibly sterilized in the state of mississippi. so it's hard to take seriously these states saying their efforts are out of love and care when in fact that's never been shown in the arc of history in those states regarding black women and girls or generally any women who happen to be vulnerable and poor in those states. >> it seems as if the court rules in the way it seemed to be leaning, toward in effect overturning roe v. wade. what roe v. wade is at this point in protecting in america are the rights of poor women, women who don't have significant means, who live in republican-controlled states, who will then change the laws and restrict abortion or ban abortion completely. the wealthy women in those states will easily be able to travel to other states that provide abortion services, and of course the big democratic states will preserve abortion rights as they have them now. and so a majority of the population actually will be living under democratic state governments that preserve all of roe and more. and so it's really at this

they'll say 15 weeks in mississippi now. mississippi passed a six-week ban and they'll be back in court and they've made their argumentsal read they the six-week ban should be upheld. as you pointed out, about half the states in the united states are poised to ban abortion entirely. so what has made the protecting the right clear was a very, very clear line that the court set in roe versus wade. we had 30 years ago planned parenthood versus casey. they reaffirmed the viability line and so if the court upholds the mississippi law it will be reversing roe, and it's going to mean that, you know, the floodgates open for restrictions all over the country. >> nancy, good to see you. thank you for bringing us up to speed. nancy northrop is the ceo. she clerked for justice sonia sotomayor when she was a judge on the u.s. court of appeals on it is 2nd circuit. i want to start there, melissa. i want to start with the comments from justice sotomayor who has suggested something that many of us think, but we don't have the legal language

alabama, west virginia, mississippi. when we're looking at vulnerability potentially in the face of a more transmissible variant, the best thing we can do if we're not panicking and getting ready, it's to make sure we get those rates up i keep the vigilance going into this winter season. >> does the variant mean we have to change our behavior or return to our prescribed behavior? i'm asking in light of what i'm assuming is your support for an extended mask mandate on public transportation in this country, into the spring. into next march. is this a way of not putting something new on us, but extending. getting us back into what we know to be yes behavior? to be yes behavior? >> i think we have to realize that the end of the pandemic is not around the corner. we always knew this. we knew that before omicron. we knew we were going into winter surge. even from that perspective, in many parts of the country, we're already seeing the winter surge. that is the fifth before full on holiday travel numbers started to go up. from

know this is not just about mississippi and texas. this is actually about 26 states that are poised to have a total ban on abortion or a partial ban on abortion. that is really frightening. this is coming to a state near you. so this is an issue that everyone in this country should chair about. abortion providers and doctors are doing their very best to care for their patients, but it is impossible when politics is put ahead of the well-being of the women that they take care of. >> yeah, and we're going to talk about whether or not democrats can actually seize on this politically and mobilize people to know what's at stake in the mid-terms and going forward. cecile richards, i know it's a busy week for for you. thank you so much for spending some of your saturday evening with us. >>> still ahead, stoking the flames of fear. a federal judge is describing the actions of donald trump and others as key drivers of the violence on january 6th. >>> plus, in tonight's edition of that's what they said, a state senator from michigan doesn't min

all of mississippi's neighboring states, mississippi, louisiana, arkansas, tennessee also have trigger laws in place. a person in mississippi seeking an abortion may have to drive 9 hours to kansas. add to that a 24 hour waiting period after your first appointment there if you can even get it. that's just one example. but the post roe future this country is facing right now. when you layer distance, state restrictions and the money needed to take off work and stay in another state for extended period of time, effectively removing the bodily autonomy for women who will no longer be able to decide for themselves when and whether to be pregnant and to give birth. abortion rights are essential to democracy and this country can't call itself one if we lose abortion rights. mary ziegler at college of law and the author of "abortion and the law in america: roe v. wade" and "after roe" and alexia johnson, democrat who spent five years running engagement outreach for planned parenthood. thank you for being here for this important discussion. hare, let me ask you about a recent op-ed you wrote f

you know, this is fundamentally when you hear this argument that mississippi, mississippi, the state that fought school integration -- the state that has so long fought against the fundamental rights of groups of other people is saying you know what? history, rely on history. no matter how sectionist, racist, divisive, in deciding how much this should stand, and to hear justice aledo saying what did courts do in 1864, well you know what? as a black woman i certainly hope that is our our historical litmus test. and saying let the legislature sort it out, i heard that loud and clear, he is saying let's leave it up to the states, this is the same supreme court that opened the flood gates to voter suppression after spending 100 years fighting to gain access to the ballots. and so much voter suppression, but we're supposed to lead it to legislatures working because of this supreme court's recent precedent coming out of south carolina. a former confederacy saying go back to your old ways and make it harder for people to vote. this is the reality of america today and this is the grounded an

the mississippi law here prohibits abortions after 15 weeks. the law includes robust exceptions for a woman's life and health. it leaves months to obtain an abortion. yet the court below struck the law down. it didn't matter that the law -- that the law applies when an unborn child is undeniably human, when risks to women surge, and when the common abortion procedure is brutal. the lower courts held that because the law prohibits abortions before viability, it is unconstitutional, no matter what. roe and casey's core holding, according to those courts, is that the people can protect an unborn girl's life when she just barely can survive outside the womb, but not a day earlier, when she needs just a little help. that is the world under roe and casey. that is not the world the constitution promises. the constitution places its trust in the people. on hard issue after hard issue, the people make this country work. abortion is a hard issue. it demands the best from all of us, not just a few of us. when an issue affects everyone and the constitution

who were forcibly sterilized in the state of mississippi. so it's hard to take seriously these states saying their efforts are out of love and care when in fact that's never been shown in the arc of history in those statements regarding black women and girls or generally any women who happen to be vulnerable and poor in those states. >> it seems as if the court rules in the way it seemed to be leaning, toward in effect overturning roe v. wade. what roe v. wade is at this point in protecting in america are the rights of poor women, women who don't have significant means, who live in republican-controlled states, who will then change the laws and restrict abortion or ban abortion completely. the wealthy women in those states will easily be able to travel to other states that provide abortion services, and of course the big democratic states will preserve abortion rights as they have them now. and so a majority of the population actually will be living under democratic state governments that preserve all of roe and more. and so it's really at t

after today's arguments in the mississippi abortion ban case that has been teed up to overturn roe v. wade, after hearing that antiabortion side argued once again by the same lawyer he tried to rescue once before on this issue, today justice brett kavanaugh is expected to be in the majority of the supreme court that really does appear poised to end roe for all intents and purposes, to end legal protections for women to get abortions in this country. here he was today, sort of characterizing that prospect in like as anodyne terms as possible, characterizing that prospect as the court simply becoming neutral on the issue of abortion, no longer playing a role on the issue, by which he means states will now be free to make abortion a crime. it's brett kavanaugh's voice you will hear first and the lawyer who answers him here is julie rikelman who is arguing on abortion rights, arguing on behalf of the center for reproductive rights. >> i think the other side would say that the core problem here is that the court has been forced by the position you're taking and by the cases to pick sides o

after today's arguments in the mississippi abortion ban case that has been teed up to i overturn roe v. wade, after hearing that antiabortion side e argued once again by the same lawyer he tried to rescue once before on this issue, today justice brett kavanaugh is th expected to be in the majority of the supreme court that really does appear poised to end roe for all intents and purposes, to end legal protections for womenr to get abortions in this country. here he was today, sort of characterizing that prospect in like as anodyne terms as possible, characterizing that prospect as the court simply becoming neutral on the issue of abortion, no longer playing a role on the issue, by which he d means states will now be free to make abortion a crime.chic this is brett kavg kav gnaw. it's brett kavanaugh's voice you will hear first and the lawyer who answers him here is julie rikelman who is arguing on abortion rights, arguing on behalf of the center for reproductive rights. >> i think the other side wouldh n say that the core problem here is that the court has been forced by the position

know this is not just about mississippi and texas. this is actually about 26 states that are poised to have a total ban on abortion or a partial ban on abortion. that is really frightening. this is coming to a state near you. so this is an issue that everyone in this country should care about. abortion providers and doctors are doing their very best to care for their patients, but it is impossible when politics is put ahead of the well-being of the women that they take care of. >> yeah, and we're going to talk about whether or not democrats can actually seize on this politically and mobilize people to know what's at stake in the mid-terms and going forward. cecile richards, i know it's a busy week for for you. thank you so much for spending some of your saturday evening with us. >>> still ahead, stoking the flames of fear. a federal judge is describing the actions of donald trump and others as key drivers of the violence on january 6th. >>> plus, in tonight's edition of that's what they said, a state senator from michigan doesn't minc

the mississippi law, not only does it repeal a woman's right to choose, but it takes away any exception for incest or rape for girls and for women. it is an outrageous step backwards. by passing the statutory, we are codifying, putting into law roe v. wade, we passed it in the house, we need to pass it in the senate. and the hyde amendment really is so cruel, because it takes away the funding and support for abortion for poor people. and we need to have abortion rights for everyone. so, those are two very important issues and we're fighting back. i was there this week at the demonstration at the supreme court, i really listened to the arguments, i was stunned at the hypocrisy of the conservative justices that imply that they would respect precedent, they'd respect law and now they're questioning -- very much on the other side, very much indicaing they'll do the unthinkable, rolling back roe v. wade, but we need to pass it, we need to put it into law and i am having a press conference on monday at the planned parenthood headquarters here in new york and the newly elected women to the cit

his new job as he is the filibuster general of mississippi. in that capacity, he was the lawyer who today in the united states supreme court argued the court that is expected to and roe v. wade, to criminalize abortion in this country. and i mentioned there was an appeals court judge that jumped in to try and save that, lawyer and say that case after it had lost in the lower court while it was on its way to losing again at the full d.c. circuit court of appeals. that appeals court judge that try to save that kind of horrifying case that was then charged, now supreme court justice brett kavanaugh. that in fact was the one abortion case brett kavanaugh ever ruled on as a judge before trump dominated him to the united states supreme court. a case in which he bent over so far backwards to try and let the trump administration block a girl from getting an abortion that he ended up getting reversed by his own court. well, what they tried to do two one immigrants alone 17 year old girl. they are now doing to the whole country. because if i first you d

and for them, for a majority of the population in mississippi, they won the civil war. the civil war was a victory for freedom and emancipation and it really takes a white supremacist revolution to institute the system of power that will become jim crow to overthrow that majority of the population. and that really, as you said, that's a history that's misunderstood, that we often cast as a period of reconstruction as a dark period in american history but it was here in mississippi, a great promise and potential that had to be thwarted by a white minority seeking power. >> was it mostly about slavery, did you link are think about it the way it happened? >> yes, it was mostly about slavery and know no i did not learn about it until later none life, when i really learned the truth. the history. and i think a big part of that is because of the textbooks we had in our schools, you know. textbooks where adopted based on what the white man said that we could use. so we were not on textbook committees. for the state. so we could not have, we didn't have any say-so in terms of w

sonia sotomayor's point that, look, mississippi changed the filing when they could count to five. this is all just -- we're a super body of legislators who donald trump picked us and we got you bro and we got on there, now we're going to hook him up and our people. >> john roberts pointed out that. i think john roberts in the past -- you can see in the court's most recent abortion decision where he reluctantly and separately wrote in support of maintaining the precedent that john roberts might have been somebody who in the short-term would have said, okay, we have to respect precedent and look like we are respecting precedent. we will tiptoe through that line. today, he sounded like a man talking from the past. brett kavanaugh and in my opinion amy coney barrett are fully on board for the project that the others are on board for. it's very hard to imagine an instance in which the rest of red states look like what is happening in texas. it's really important to point out that we are seeing this experiment in practice. we understand why the supreme court allowed it to happen in texa

today, mississippi's governor, outlined his state's case. >> there is no guarantee to an abortion in our u.s. constitution. but i'd go a step further and tell you that not only is there a guarantee right, there is also nothing in our united states constitution that would prevent a state, like mississippi, from implementing and placing reasonable restrictions on abortion. >> this mississippi case has been described as the biggest challenge to abortion rights in this country and decades, it will be among our topics of discussion here tonight. with that, it is a good time to introduce our starting line on this tuesday evening. ashley parker, pulitzer prize chief for the washington post. , carol leonnig pulitzer prize -winning also with the post-coauthor with our friend phil rucker of the new york times bestseller, i alone can fix it. and paul butler, former federal prosecutor at the department of justice. currently a professor at georgetown law. good evening and welcome to you all. ashley, i'd like to begin with you. this is a great headline for the committee. the potential cooperation

tomorrow morning the justices will hear oral arguments in a case involving a mississippi abortion law that makes it practically impossible to obtain an abortion in that state after 15 weeks of pregnancy. today mississippi's governor outlined his state's case. >> there's no guarantee to an abortion in our u.s. constitution, but i would go a step further and tell you that not only is there not a guaranteed right, there's also nothing in our united states constitution that would prevent a state, a state like mississippi, from implementing and placing reasonable restrictions on abortions. >> this mississippi case has been described as the biggest challenge to abortion rights in this country in decades. it will be among our topics of discussion here tonight. >>> with that, it is a good time to introduce our starting line on this tuesday evening. ashley parker, pulitzer prize winning white house bureau chief for "the washington post." carol leonnig, also with the post, co-author with our friend phil rucker of "the new york times" best seller "i alone can fix it." and paul butler, former fed

mississippi itself in this case, originally was not going directly after roe v. wade. it wasn't until the balance of the supreme court shifted into the favor of conservatives because of donald trump. that they started going directly for roe. it was political from the beginning in terms of whether they felt they could count the votes and justice roberts himself and the institutionalist and the person who said i will uphold precedent because that's what we do, he is the one who ignored precedent in his question saying well, does a woman really have the right to choose if it's 15 weeks versus 24 weeks? >> well, that actually is ignoring the precedent, really pretty explicitly and in a way that he said precedent was, which is judges not replacing their personal views and that's what they'll do if they do what we think they will. >> when it comes to the core question of privacy, and part of the reason i wanted to talk to you is i wonder as a bioethicist and is the potential that you see here that the rest of us do not see. >> many alarming things that haven't been a part of

there are at least six votes to uphold the mississippi law. there's either four or five, i'm sure, to overturn roe, it would seem. so the only question is when they come to actually write the ruling, will they, when they stare over the cliff of overturning roe, actually take that leap or not? after today's argument, it does seem like they probably are prepared to do so. >> you filed eemecus briefs. what stood out to you today? >> i'm not sure they're going to do one thing or the other. what stood out to me is how clear it was that justice thomas potentially, even justice barrett were not focusing on necessarily legal arguments but more on sort of the moralistic questions of what should happen around an unwanted pregnancy. i think justice kavanaugh is worried about stare decisis.rai states. he said this involves the rights of women compared to the rights of an unborn fetus. there's just no good answer here, other than in my mind, to uphold roe. >> one of the points made, maya, is if they overturn this decision and overturn this stare decisis in

there's only one clinic in mississippi. that's about whether or not people have all the kinds of healthcare they need, not just pregnancy-related healthcare as well. it's also about bias in the medical system and whether women who are black or latina or native american are treated for the conditions they have. so, the callousness is actually deeply, deeply concerning for anybody who actually does care about human life and purports to care about human life. i just want to make the link to aids because i was in the first aids discrimination law clinic as a law student in the country in the 1980s and had clients who were hiv-positive. and here's the thing. the callousness literally from folks who had that same ideology were, let them die, let them die because we think there's something immoral about them. and i think we have to acknowledge that there is something going on here that is beyond science and beyond clear public policy that balances interests fairly. it's really about who we think are worthy of our support and compa

i serve in the mississippi house of representatives for district 84. about 16,000 people in the whole county. everybody knows everybody. you get a speeding ticket, everybody knows. i'm not here to argue the design of the flag. that is not my intent. some universities took the flag down. if you're receiving state dollars and you're a public university, then you should display whatever that symbol is. >> and do you think this is an issue that matters to the people in your district? >> yes, ma'am. >> why? >> i just think it's a heritage. it's a history. there is a big movement to remove confederate history. well, it's part of history. you know? where and when is enough? >> do you feel like slavery was something that was in the past, let's move on? or do you feel like slavery still has an effect today? >> it's over and it is part of

and it is technically about mississippi abortion ban. but it is about overturning roe v. wade and getting rid of this right in the american constitution. the lawyer tomorrow who will be arguing for abortion rights at the supreme court, the lawyer who will be arguing on behalf of that last remaining abortion clinic in mississippi will be the senior director of litigation at the center for reproductive rights. joining us now is nancy northup, president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. miss northup, nancy, it's nice to see you. thanks so much for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> am i seeing this in overly stark terms? is this case what i described? is this what they have been aiming at in terms of trying to undermine this right once and for all? >> oh, this case is exactly what you have been describing, rachel. i mean, mississippi passed this 15-week ban in open defiance of supreme court precedent. they passed this ban as a test case to overturn roe v. wade. it was easily struck down in the trial court and the court of appeals because they wanted

case where the court upholds the mississippi law, but doesn't overturn roe v. wade? >> well, there is certainly a version where they do not say the magic words former attorney general meese, and i think a very important op-ed for "the washington post" said he very much wanted to hear which is roe v. wade is overruled. but there are ways to effectively undo and set the stage for the further undoing of the abortion right in upholding the mississippi law, and disappointing conservatives by failing to say those words. as much as attorney general meese would be upset by that, that doesn't by failing to overroe, that doesn't mean that that would be a win for the abortion rights side or for liberals on the court or for liberals in the country. it would contain the seeds, it would be a loss and it would contain the seeds of further loss. and it's also very important to understand that what's at stake here and what took up so much space in my piece is that this is not just about abortion rights. it's the big kahuna for conservatives, but it's also about so much more tha

and it is technically about mississippi abortion ban. but it is about overturning roe v. wade and getting rid of this right in the american constitution. the lawyer tomorrow who will be arguing for abortion rights at the supreme court, the lawyer who will be arguing on behalf of that last remaining abortion clining in mississippi, will be the senior director of litigation at the center for reproductive rights. joining us now is nancy northup, president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. nancy, nice to see you. thanks so much for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> am i seeing this in overly stark terms? is this case what i described? is this what they have been aiming at in terms of trying to undermine this right once and for all? >> oh, this case is exactly what you have been describing, rachel. i mean, mississippi passed this 15-week ban in open defiance of supreme court precedent. they passed this ban as a test case to overturn roe v. wade. it was easily struck down in the trial court and the court of appeals because they wanted to get to the su

the state of mississippi has an opportunity to bring justice in this case. we're hoping that just as we have seen in minnesota and in georgia with the courage of prosecutors and at the state level highest law enforcement that they would -- lynn fitch, the attorney general, along with d.a. richardson, that they would have the courage in mississippi to bring this forward. there is an opportunity. so that young man should have hope. we should hold out hope. she has not been held accountable for her role. we don't hate for her. there's no vengeance. we just want justice to prevail in this case. emmit deserves it. our country deserves it. our family deserves it. >> yeah. your language is better than mine on this. i said justice. there's no justice. if he is not alive, then that's not justice. accountability is what we are looking for here. one of the interesting legacies of the work you have done and of emmit till is that in the last couple of years we have seen instances of lynching and americans are now able to call it what it is. we have a memorial to lynching

the potential to overturn 50 years of precedent weighed heavily on today's proceedings, as mississippi argued that the court's 1973 roe decision was, quote, egregiously wrong and a poison on the law. the conservative justices in the majority didn't all signal an outright willingness to completely overturn roe. but many of their comments suggested a willingness to weaken it perhaps substantially. let's listen to justice kavanaugh's line of questioning with mississippi solicitor general, many believe a crucial vote in this case given his previous defense of roe as precedent on precedent. >> you're not arguing that the court somehow has the authority to itself prohibit abortion or that this court has the authority to order the states to prohibit abortion, as i understand it, correct? >> correct, your honor. >> as i understand it, you're arguing that the constitution's silent and, therefore, neutral on the question of abortion? in other words that the constitution's neither pro-life nor pro-choice on the question of abortion but leaves the issue for the people of the states or perhaps cong

but to effectively to undo the effectiveness of the abortion, right and upholding the mississippi law, and disappointing conservatives by failing to say those words, as much as the general will be upset by that, that doesn't mean that that would be a win for the abortion rights side or four liberals on the court or four liberals in the country. it will contain the seeds. it will be a loss. and it is also very important to understand that what is at stake here, and what's took up so much space in my piece is that this is not just about abortion rights. it is the big kahuna for conservatives. but it is about so much more than that. it is about guns. it is about comes to indicate voting rights. it is about all sorts of really complicated issues involving the power of regulatory agencies to protect us against pollution, climate change, dangerous drugs, everything else. so this is the moment conservatives have been waiting for. but this abortion case is just one man's forte shun of that moment. >> ruth marcus, dahlia lithwick, i think you very much for joining us on the eve of this importa

she was living back to mississippi which is where the cuffs went onto her wrist. she did not remain silent. >> it would not be loik this. >> it would be stupid. >> rubin dropped the friendly versailles he presented to katrina. now he came at her at full force. >> you are still saying you didn't kill eric. >> okay. >> did you have a firearm? >> what kind of firearm. >> 380. remember she told police she didn't own a gun and fired one. >> i didn't kill anyone so there is no need for me to say i have a gun. you never asked. you asked me have i ever held a gun or fired a gun. >> it was simple. you murdered eric. it was your gun that killed him. >> the question was why? >> there has to be a reason. there has to be a reason. >> you are going to go down as the most cold-blooded person we have spoken with because you are so good. >> it's going to be bad. >> i am going to have my day in court. >> katrina would not give it up and asked for a lawyer. >> the detectives put her in lock up and stepped outside to call eric's family. >> i was like thank you, god. they're going to

it is technically about mississippi abortions. but it is about overturning the rate and getting into the american constitution. the lawyer tomorrow will be arguing for abortion rights at the supreme court. the lawyer will be arguing on behalf of those last remaining abortion clinic in mississippi. the senior director of litigation at the center for reproductive rights, joining us now is nancy lower them she's president and ceo of this. miss north and it's nice seeing you thank you very much for being here tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> am i seeing this in an overly dark tone. is this case what i described? is it would have been aiming at in terms of trying to undermine this rule once and for? all >> this case is exactly what you've been describing rachel. mississippi passed this 15-week ban and open defiance of the supreme court president. they passed this ban as a test case, to overturn most of weighing -- it easily shut down in the trial court in the court of appeals. because they want to get to the supreme court to mak

and mississippi says here we go, we may have the votes now. that's exactly what justice roberts have said the courts should never do. that precedent and he said it in writing. precedent is about the principles that say judges had not be political and should not be. that's why justice sotomayor made the point she did. do we understand what we are about to do here? what we are about to do is tell people it's just political. the bench is just political. >> elise, the supreme court always is mindful. they're mindful of the fact they do have this power and authority but they are not elected and appointed. that's one of the reasons roberts is always an institutionalist and here is what justice sotomayor had to be getting at. you had two judges going through difficult and politicized hearings. we saw what happened with republicans just out now lying about the rules of putting justices on the supreme court. they did what they could do legally. that does not mean there is not a shadow that's cast on this court right now that makes overturning a 50-year

. >> mississippi's ban on abortion two months before viability is flatly unconstitutional under decades of precedent. >> and liberal justices warn of damage to the court's reputation. my guests this morning, democratic senator amy klobuchar and republican senator mike braun. >>> plus omicron. >> we're going to fight this variant with science and speed, not chaos and confusion. >> new travel restrictions amid concerns about transmissibility and how effective vaccines will be. >> because of the number of mutations that are seen, the concern is vaccines won't work as well. >> i'll talk to the director of the national institutes of health, dr. francis collins. >>> also, the parents of the boy accused of killing four high school classmates in michigan are themselves charged with involuntarily manslaughter. >> there was absolute reason to believe this individual was dangerous and disturbed. >> they are now in jail for hiding from authorities after failing to appear in court. the entire family behind bars. >>> joining me for insight and analysis are "washington post" white house bureau chief a

the chief justice mentioned yesterday he was focused on this 15-week ban in mississippi. it seemed to me if you look at the tea leaves that what we can very well see is this incremental approach here, which is upholding the mississippi ban and saying roe versus wade is not overturned but we're going to instead of using this viability test we're going to use some other test and 15 weeks is okay. but then the next step beyond that and the one that i think the other three more conservative justices would urge today is to say there is no such thing as substantive due process rights under the law. that's all made up and so all of those same cases that have relied on that same substantive due process right like marriage equality, interracial marriage, gay sex, all of those protections come under the same notion of substantive due process. it may not be in the decision but i think in the next case we'll see that steady erosion of those kinds of things that we have long cherished in this country. >> barbara mcquaid, thank you very much for being with me this morning. >> thanks. >

this is in a rural area of southwestern mississippi. jefferson county it's called, home to just about 7,000 people, 85% of whom are black. nearly 30% of residents live in poverty. the state of mississippi as a whole routinely rarngz at or near the bottom in all kinds of health care outcomes. so when the covid vaccines first became available early this year uptake in jefferson county was as you might expect pretty slow. vaccinations in the county lagged behind the state, and then mississippi lagged behind the rest of the united states. but then there was a drastic change. jefferson county's vaccination rate surged, surpassing the state's pace. it is now the most vaccinated county per capita in mississippi. nearly 80% of the eligible population receiving at least one dose. it's among the highest vaccinate ed rural counties in the entire country. so how did jefferson county do it? well, local health care providers went out into the community to meet people where they are. literally. physically. health care workers from the jefferson county

the mississippi law is unconstitutional. that's what i say. it is unconstitutional, and these justices know it. >> erin, the comments by the liberal justices were so haunting, because they acknowledge what the congresswoman is talking about. they acknowledge their defeat on this right. but it was so fascinating to hear justice sotomayor say, what if we started looking at other rights, first amendment rights, second amendment rights? no one thinks that would ever happen. what does yesterday's performance by the justices say to you? >> so, i think justice sotomayor did what she could to both make a moral, constitutional, medical, social case for abortion rights, but it had the feeling of futility. you had the feeling that you were listening to an incredible dissent get crafted. instead, the argument was dominated by kavanaugh and barrett making it clear that they were prepared to do precisely what they were put on the court to do, which is to undermine women's fundamental rights, the rights of pregnant people, and i think that there was some que

but mississippi not alone. the gut maccer institute finds -- 26 states are likely to ban abortion if. that, of course, if you have the money and the ability to travel out of state. as history shows us, abortion bans dispro-portly impacts -- this warning from senator amy klobuchar on "meet the press." >> you're going to go back to a time of back alley abortions. you're going to go back to people busing from one state to another. now they're willing to just flip it on its head. so what is the answer? the answer may well be doing it through the political process now. i don't think that's the right thing to do, but it may be the way to do it. and i think the best way to do it is not a patchwork of state laws but to codify roe v. wade, put it into law, and we even have some pro-choice republicans that have signaled interest in doing that. >> we kick off the hour, msnbc contributors melissa murray. she's a former clerk to judge sonia sotomayor. also with us, activist and msnbc political analyst brittany pack nick cun