lots to talk about howard fineman, senior correspondent from "newsweek" magazine. good evening. >> hi, keith. >> so any americans who might end up in jail because they didn't buy private insurance under the baucus bill if it becomes law? would they then get public health care in jail. does that make them the only americans under this plan who get free pibl health care or subsidized health sdmier. >> yes, and they would get all the garlic milk shakes they could drink. the thing about what's -- the care that they get on the hill, it's interesting. it's the result of competition. it's the result of choice, which is the key word in that -- in those polls you were just showing. >> i don't suppose it needed pointing out that this idea that you could make it -- instead of just making it a fine, you make it actual jail time, even nominal jail time that that has been lobbied for by the health care industry in this whole process, correct? >> well, yes. and keith, the amazing thing here is that if this goes according to the baucus plan as it now stands, the federal government

it is time for pat buchanan and howard fineman. first you, pat, then howard. is this connected to the atmosphere of government? that you have to be armed to protect yourself from the federales? >> a sense that society is decomposing, a sense that the police might not be there to defend you and people want in the last analysis, the ability to defend themselves and their families in the ultimate situation if no one is there. i don't think the idea of people buying guns or concealed carry such as we have in virginia has anything to do with health care or the government of the united states. >> okay, howard, a lot of people want to bring guns into bars, why do they want to transport them by train and why are central census takers being killed, hanged and with the word fed written on them? i see a connection, do you? >> as i make a mental note to stay out of bars in colorado. as i see a list of bars to stay out of in phoenix. i took a close look at some of the polling on this. over the last 40, 50 years, there's been a steady decline, really, cutting in half the nu

it will be some murky language like that otherwise they won't pass anything. >> our own howard fineman, and if this passes i will leave the tea baggers. great thanks. >>> the latest big lie from the gop regarding what is in the rest of that health care bill would be amusing if not so insidious, and to ignore both facts and logic to back it up. speaking from the house floor last night she spoke on one of the house bills is health care clinics. remember a key element in fear mongering is effective name calling. >> these have been more accurately called school sex clinics. >> by her. after that sleight of hand, she refer to the clinics as sex clinics. >> protect student privacy, what does that mean? it means that parents will never know what kind of counsel and treatment that their children are receiving, and as a matter of fact, the bill goes on to say what's going to go on, comprehensive primary health services, physicals, treatment of minor, accuse chronic med conditions. does that mean that someone's 13-year-old daughter could walk into a sex clinic, have a pregnancy test done, be tak

. >> our own howard fineman, and if this passes i will leave the tea baggers. >>> the latest big lie from the gop regarding what is in the rest of that health care bill would be amusing if not so insidious, and to ignore both facts and logic to back it up. speaking from the house floor last night she spoke on one of the house bills is health care clin clinics. >> these have been more accurately called school sex clinics. >> by her. after that sleight of hand, bachman supported -- >> protect student privacy, what does that mean? it means that parents will never know what kind of counsel and treatment that their children are receiving, and as a matter of fact, the bill goes on to say what's going to go on, comprehensive primary health services, physicals, treatment of minor, accuse chronic med condition conditions. does that mean that someone's 13-year-old daughter could walk into a sex clinic, have a pregnancy test done, be taken away to the local planned parn clinic, have her abortion and come back to the school and go home on the bus that night and the parents are none the wiser. >>

fineman is senior washington kobe bryant at "newsweek." first up -- senior washington editor at "newsweek." will the president send the 40,000 troops his own commander says is needed to avoid losing? the key questions, where is al qaeda? they weren't in afghanistan when we were fighting, are they still there? mike mullen says no. >> the focus is feeding al qaeda and their extremist allies and where the original 911 attacks came from that region and they've now moved to pakistan. chris: question two is the taliban in afghanistan where we're fighting a threat to the u.s.? is controlling the taliban worth the fight? some insist they're not a security threat to the west but general mcchrystal spoke out thursday after the big meeting in washington to argue al qaeda would return if we don't fight the taliban. >> transnational terror threats absolutely remain and i believe the loss of stability in afghanistan brings huge risks to transnational terrorists like al qaeda will operate inside afghanistan again. chris: and question three, can afghanist

i'm going to throw you a curveball because howard fineman has explained this markup of the insurance bill that would result in conceivably in criminal time if you don't buy the mandatory insurance. he said if baucus put it into the chairman's mark up and simply said that this would be handled as lawrence o'donnell suggested, it would be handled in terms of the finding of the irs and the irs does attach criminal penalties when you don't pay. so baucus is now saying that was a mistake, are we buying that. >> i think there's an effort here, sometimes to kill proposals by elevating those penalties as an issue and that is what's going on. there's no question in my mind that baucus and some of the other democrats, conservative and moderate, and democrats in that committee are on the behest of the insurance industry, and this is one of the things they're up to. >> ironically enough, a poison pill in the middle of an insurance reform effort. craig, as always, thanks. >> that's "countdown" for this the 2,245th day since the previous president declared mission accomplished in iraq. i'm keith o