pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on a collision course both say they are committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geo political interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but i can hear us navy seal raid killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact of the world's most wanted was discovered in the campaign near islamabad. the american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some of the colleagues in the oceans that deep reservations whether it. is the same goals were prepared to be a full partner pursuing those goals and there are calls in some quarters in chorus for a shift in. april. less there is an improvement in the current situation well american lawmakers may be losing faith in their pakistani co

pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on a collision course both say they're committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geopolitical interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but i can hear us navy seal raid that killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question that the world's most wanted was discovered the camp near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some about globally in the oceans. have deep reservations about whether it. is the same goals or prepared to be a full partner pursuing those goals. there are calls in some quarters in progress for a shift in. april. less there is a proven in the current situation well american lawmakers may be losing faith in their pakistani counterpar

taliban is in pakistan. anyway. the second thing, more surprising, actually, and this indicates -- the success of the military campaign -- that unlike the growing impression of a few year back up to the spring of 2009 the pakistani army is capable of defeating insurgency in some areas, containing it and at least to some extent rolling it back. in other words, the idea that pakistan is going to be overthrown by a spreading insurgency is wrong. that's not going to happen. the second -- and, actually, i always expected that as soon as the army pulled itself together, motivateed its troops, got sufficient political backing. perhaps more striking is the reconstruction in swat has proceeded very well. admittedly, this is only one district, but it is a district which after having been badly damaged by the fighting in the 2009 was then even more damaged, of course, by the floods of last year. and the reconstruction after both of these episodes has been impressive. in terms of the restoration of infrastructure, the a

rule of law in pakistan. and it was not u.s. pressure that returns the justice to his chair. it was a movement, a popular mood in pakistan that led to the justice's reinstatement. we heard recently that more than 70% of the 20 billion u.s. dollars that have been given to pakistan since september 11 have gone to the military, and we've heard this morning that it's unclear what the military has done with that. it's also unclear what has happened to the other 30%. that $6 billion over the last 10 years. and i also like to put that figure to perspective, it sounds like you a lot of money but it should be noted that the pakistani american community contributes an estimated $1 billion annually in cash, another 4 billion annually in labor to philanthropic activities. the second point, the people of pakistan should not be punished for the failings of their government. the military and intelligence agencies in pakistan has repeatedly undermined and overthrown civilian governments in pakistan. and the people of pakista

pakistan. i think that will be true of any western european country and -- >> do you think anybody at high level in pakistan would have known that bin laden was there? >> the question in pakistan is you have the army and security services and have you the politicians and business class. you have a very divided political system. until there is unity in pakistan, until people come together, then the attack on terrorism, fight against terrorism, will be infective and this is the real problem we face. afghanistan is soluble. if we had -- stability in pakistan. and -- terrorism in pakistan needs the local government, local people to come together with these -- with nonsectarian politics and with the army and sturtze services working with them to deal with this threat and too much division in pakistan for the fight against terrorism to be effective. >> finally, what do you miss most about being prime minister? >> i can tell you what i don't miss. what you don't miss is -- british newspapers. what you

pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on the collision course both say they're committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geo political interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but i can hear us navy seal raid that killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact that the world's most wanted was discovered in the camp owned near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the us have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some about colleagues in the oceans. have deep reservations about whether it. is the same goals were prepared to be a full partner in pursuing those schools and there are calls in some quarters in progress for a shift in. april. less there is an improvement in the current situation while american lawmakers may be losi

is operating inside pakistan is not helping any of the stakeholders in pakistan that's one thing if i you know i don't know if i'm going to tucson here well what do you think about that because congress is grading it to take money away from the very huge aged package that was given last year i mean again i mean is this just treating pakistanis or truant child because the sentiment in pakistan is very anti-american as was pointed out. you know i think it's a very it's a very tricky game to play i think. salut correct to say that to the extent that the united states is perceived to be is acting unilaterally gloating taking a heavy hand one of the risks that is run is a alienating the palace of the populace and entrenching support within the military intelligence establishment i think this is not the goal i think the endgame in fact of the obama administration is to try and preserve some of the larger structure of the alliance while again shifting some of the internal support a way from the most unpredictable and erratic elements of the military intelligence structure. towards other elem

pakistan, pakistan, pakistan, pakistan, pakistan. it has been pakistan from the beginning. it's still pakistan. how long is it going to keep being pakistan? today on the occasion of osama bin laden's death, "the new york times" ran a big 5,000-word obituary of bin laden. it describes bin laden bragging about his american made weapons and his trainers who supported him against the soviets in the 1980 ez. the u.s. was being careful to avoid getting drawn into a hot war in afghanistan with the soviets so even though we gave that training and those weapons to bin laden in afghanistan in the 80's, we never really got it to him all that directly. instead we used a middle man. who do you think we used as a middle man? we used the pakistani intelligence service as the middle man when we wanted to arm bin laden. the whole post 9/11 idea of waging a war on terrorism was to go after terrorists themselves, right? but also go after their sponsors. you go after the countries that sponsor terrorist groups and fund them. iraq never did that. that was a red herring. that was a distraction f

pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on the collision course both say they're committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geo political interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but after the u.s. navy seal raid killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact of the world's most wanted was discovered in the compound near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some of our colleagues in the oceans. deep reservations about whether it. is true but at the same goals we're prepared to be a full partner pursuing those girls and there are calls in some quarters in congress for a shift in. aid for. unless there is it improvement in the current situation while american lawmakers may be lo

we care about pakistan because of pakistan. for too long we have been having the discussion about pakistan for how they should -- how they can help us in afghanistan. that is not how we should be approaching this. they have 180 million people, they have nuclear weapons, they have the highest population of the islamists in the world. it is a dangerous country, it is a poor country, and it has potential. it has been under military control for a long time. those are the facts that matter in pakistan. american policy has to address those fundamental flaws in the islamic state and the problems that the region poses right now. there are three things that happened to -- have to happen in pakistan for anything to change. the last one is that the pakistani ruling elite will have to come to a consensus on the need to accept a very long, and pleasant, and bloody struggle to eliminate the islamist organizations that have permeated is lock -- pakistani society. in order to get there, the rule lingelite will have to come to a consensus that

the aid that goes to pakistan. if you are convinced or persuaded that they have not been full partners, is this money that you can imagine pulling out? >> i think we should condition the money going forward. i would want to add, gwen, that the civilian government i think is well intentioned. i take president za cary's commence at their face value and with the deeply felt way in which he shares them with us. this is really about the pakistani military and the infamous i.s.i., their intelligence service. they have to work with us in a true alliance. we've had scratchy moments over these last months with them. this is probably the ultimate scratchy moment but if they're not going to come clean and work with us in ways that we both can be successful in this important alliance then that money ought to be more condition than it is today. >> ifill: senator chambliss on the money question. well, we have to remember that we went in to a relationship with pakistan knowing it's a very corrupt government, knowing that it's som

pakistan relationship. we must make this relationship work. despite the killing of at osama bin laden, the fact is the threat from al qaeda and affiliate groups remains as dangerous as it did last friday. in fact, cia director panetta warned yesterday that terrorists almost certainly will attempt to avenge him, and we must remain vigilant and resolute. if anything, the threat is even more dangerous in the days and weeks ahead after his demise. this was most obvious last may when a pakistani born u.s. citizen trove and suv into times square and attempted to killed hundreds of people. he traveled to pakistan and received training from ttp. his attack was retribution for u.s. crowns in pakistan. retribution has been a driver of attacks in the past, and we must be on guard. i look forward to hearing from today's witnesses on the myriad of terrorist groups operating in pakistan and their intent and capability to strike the homeland for. these a wharf is in a continually evolving groups present huge challenges to

>> with regard to pakistan? , anything that weighs in on the reconciliation, peace process, so we take advantage of this political space that has been created by the military success. >> mr. chairman, i am of the the you that in all of these of engagements in the 21st century, there are essentially teenager comes -- three major components, and the first is the security component. as time has shown, this is not enough. but security obviously has to be restored to a certain level before he can do anything else, but very quickly, in addition to security, as people transition to a different type of government and want more transparency in their lives, and a credit system, there has to be something else. there has to be reforms to meet the people plus expectations, for instance, governmental policies, role all, where corruption exists, as the attack, you need a judicial sources -- system that is functional, i need an economic tiller that shows the people there is an alternative to the way they were living before. our

official said pakistan... to grant access to osama bin laden's wives, something the white house had requested. the three women were in the compound when bin laden was shot. two views now on how the united states should deal with pakistan. wendy chamberlin was the u.s. ambassador there in 2001 and 2002. she is now president of the middle east institute. lawrence wright is the author of "the looming tower," on the origins of al qaeda. his article, "the double game," on the u.s. and pakistan, appears in this week's "new yorker." ambassador, leaders in both countries today talked about how important it was to maintain this relationship. is that a sign that however flawed it is, they're kind of stuck with each other. >> we're stu with each other. we need each other. it's very important to both of our national objectives that we maintain a good relationship. look, this has been a tough week. a lot of loose talk, a lot of dangerous talk on both sides. on our part people threatening to cut off aid. i think it's a mist

official said pakistan... to grant access to osama bin laden's wives, something the white house had requested. the three women were in the compound when bin laden was shot. two views now on how the united states should deal with pakistan. wendy chamberlin was the u.s. ambassador there in 2001 and 2002. she is now president of the middle east institute. lawrence wright is the author of "the looming tower," on the origins of al qaeda. his article, "the double game," on the u.s. and pakistan, appears in this week's "new yorker." ambassador, leaders in both countries today talked about how important it was to maintain this relationship. is that a sign that however flawed it is, they're kind of stuck with each other. >> we're stuck with each other. we need each other. it's very important to both of our national objectives that we maintain a good relationship. look, this has been a tough week. a lot of loose talk, a lot of dangerous talk on both sides. on our part people threatening to cut off aid. i think it's a mi

osama bin laden's presence in pakistan was not to pakistan's advantage. now, you know pakistan well, christiane. you were there immediately after 9/11. we still have many jihadi has beens from the 1980s who are still alive and well and kicking and some of them could have been helping them, but they are not in the state or government of pakistan today. >> right, but let's call a spade a spade. osama bin laden, number one terrorist in the world, including against pakistan, was hiding in your west point town. there are barriers, there are checks, foreigners just can't go there just willy-nilly. i know that for a fact and so do others. khalid shaikh mohammed, ksm, was found in a similar town in rawalpindi a few years ago. how can this happen without the tacit knowledge or without some kind of involvement? >> let me proffer another explanation. >> that's the question. >> it's a state, a country with lots of people, it's a very difficult country in the sense of its capacity to deal with the problems. as the national security adviser said, a lot more people have

what pakistan chooses to do and what happens in pakistan in fact can have more to do with determining the course of events in afghanistan than almost any other single thing. if out of this osama bin laden event pakistan now decides to really engage in a very different strategic relationship, if they go after the fatah, if they were to say we're expelling all foreign nationals who are here illegally, if they have a different i.s.i.-relationship with us, if they were to move to engage in a different kind of cooperative effort on the ground, that could significantly-- and i do mean significantly-- change the dynamic with the taliban, the possibilities of reconciliation, the possibilities of negotiation, and ultimately the numbers of troops that are in afghanistan. remember, no military leader of ours-- and i think no civilian person has said there is anything but a non-military solution to afghanistan. we have to have a political solution. >> schieffer: all right. >> and i think we have a better chance of getting that now. >> schieffer: senator, thank you so much. good luck on that missi

if this becomes pakistan's war, i think pakistan will win the war. if it's perceived that pakistan army is a mercenary army of the u.s., we have no chance of winning. >> i agree the scale of human tragedy is beyond words. we all share the concerns about that. something you just said i am troubled by. you said if it is the pakistani war against terror, you will win. at the same time the leader of your military is refusing to pursue the leaders of al qaeda and some of the most violent terrorist groups in pakistan. why should we in the united states have confidence that the pakistani military is going to do everything it can do to pursue terrorists? >> well, this is why i'm saying the fact u.s. thinks pakistan military is playing a double game can only be because they want the u.s. money and at the same time they are patronizing terrorists. i guess that's what the pakistan army is being accused of. if we don't take any aid, if we have a credible government, the interest is there should be no terrorism from pakistani soil. a credible government should sa

pakistan's alternative policy institute and news service this is cross-talk air you can jump in anytime you want here mark obama said the world is a better place it's a safer place and importantly he said justice has been done over the last ten years over the last ten years on the war on terror has justice been done. but i think as a new yorker a lifelong new yorker until recently certainly. i'm certainly happy to see that bin laden is gone and that is not what i think would be just then but i think the other arguments that the world safer i'm not sure that they're really true at this point because most people think he hasn't had any kind of operational command of al qaeda and the franchises that have grown are in fact more dangerous than al qaida is a central is of the moment and you know his death itself is probably going to spawn a lot of violence and retribution so i think that argument is not really true and i think if the policies don't change very quickly on the part of the obama administration in long term this is really going to be a footnote however. americans in a war that sh

a support system in pakistan. congress gave president obama is standing ovation. and he was watching from the situation room. we take a tour of osama bin laden to hideout. also coming up in the program, sony says hackers may have stolen the details of 25 million on-line games. and mental deterioration in old age. ♪ the united states says it is closing its embassy in islamabad had done with three other cities until further notice. that is following the killing of u.s. forces of osama bin laden at his complex, a few hours' drive from his love of god. -- islamabad. the president of pakistani confirmed that the operation was not a joint one. we will bring you the latest from pakistan and the u.s. throughout the course of the day. here is this report from our washington correspondent. >> anxious moments at the white house as president obama and his pfizer's watched the operation in real time to catch osama bin laden -- >> we were concerned about pakistan. we were watching and making sure that our aircraft was able to

if this becomes pakistan's war, i think pakistan will win the war. if it's perceived that pakistan army is a mercenary army of the u.s., we have no chance of winning. >> i agree the scale of human tragedy is beyond words. we all share the concerns about that. something you just said i am troubled by. you said if it is the pakistani war against terror, you will win. at the same time the leader of your military is refusing to pursue the leaders of al qaeda and some of the most violent terrorist groups in pakistan. why should we in the united states have confidence that the pakistani military is going to do everything it can do to pursue terrorists? >> well, this is why i'm saying the fact u.s. thinks pakistan military is playing a double game can only be because they want the u.s. money and at the same time they are patronizing terrorists. i guess that's what the pakistan army is being accused of. if we don't take any aid, if we have a credible government, the interest is there should be no terrorism from pakistani soil. a credible government should sa

pakistan, pakistan, pakistan, pakistan, pakistan. it has been pakistan from the beginning. it's still pakistan. how long is it going to keep being pakistan? today on the occasion of osama bin laden's death, "the new york times" ran a big 5,000-word obituary of bin laden. it describes bin laden bragging about his american made weapons and the american trainers who supported him and the mujahadin fighters against the soviets in the 1980s. what he didn't brag about, was that they got the american weapons, they never got them directly from an cans. the u.s. was being careful to avoid getting drawn into a hot war in afghanistan with the soviets so even though we gave that training and those weapons to bin laden in afghanistan in the 80's, we never really got it to him all that directly. instead we used a middle man. who do you think we used as a middle man? we used the pakistani intelligence service as the middle man when we wanted to arm bin laden. the whole post 9/11 idea of waging a war on terrorism was to go after terrorists themselves, right? but also go after their sponsor

and pakistan. earlier today pakistan released this statement, quote, the government of pakistan expresses its deep concerns and reservations on the manner in which the government of the united states carried out this operation. it may constitute threat to international peace and security. joining me now to talk more about it is mark quarterman, a defense and security expert from the center for strategic and international studies. thank you for joining me, mark. >> happy to be with you. >> what do you make of the relationship right now? obviously, it's not just lawmakers. you can talk to just about anybody and they are wondering out loud what kind of help osama bin laden got within pakistan's borders. >> well, the relationship between the u.s. and pakistan is clearly strained. the example of osama bin laden is really the latest issue of strain between the two. the fact that he could have lived for years in that house in abbottabad near the military academy, in a town with a number of retired senior

the aid that goes to pakistan. if you are convinced or persuaded that they have not been full partners, is this money that you can imagine pulling out? >> i think we should condition the money going forward. i would want to add, gwen, that the civilian government i think is well intentioned. i take president za cary's commence at their face value and with the deeply felt way in which he shares them with us. this is really about the pakistani military and the infamous i.s.i., their intelligence service. they have to work with us in a true alliance. we've had scratchy moments over these last months with them. this is probably the ultimate scratchy moment but if they're not going to come clean and work with us in ways that we both can be successful in this important alliance then that money ought to be more conditioned than it is today. >> ifill: senator chambliss on the money question. well, we have to remember that we went in to a relationship with pakistan knowing it's a very corrupt government, knowing that it's s

between india and pakistan. u.s. pakistan relations. in many ways this is the preeminent dialogue that determines everything else in that region in many ways. it is also the dialogue that has an impact on civil military relations and pakistan. my fear is that just as there was once. there may be another. then what will happen? will it be the road again? and what if who we irresponsible remarks of the indian side as we saw recently by the indian army chief and, if the americans can do it so can we. but, of course the americans can. but then of course you can't. the a proper response was given not to the americans but pakistan military but to the indians which has created another problem. intelligence told parliament that if india were to undertake any such venture regardless of whether we knew that there were doing it all we found a later we had already earmarked targets and time rehearsals and exercises in the way in which we will kickback. of course parliament caravan. so those are the issues right now. could news and bad news. thank y

in pakistan. >> how do you know for sure he's not in pakistan? >> because of military actions are very successful. therefore, he would have been -- >> really? would have been arrested? your military actions were successful, would have gotten him. not only was there a chance that bin laden had been living in pakistan for six years, he was living a half a mile from pakistan's version of west point in a town surrounded by retired ex-military officers. a half mile. in new york city terms, bin laden was on 21st and 7th avenue. they were on 21st and 9th avenue. if the pakistani military academy were dominos, they would have delivered to bin laden on foot. >> just a little levity in all of this for you. >>> as we mentioned, pakistan is reacting strongly to u.s. assertions that the government must have had some indication of bin laden's whereabouts. pakistani intelligence officials also say they've questioned some of the people left behind after the u.s. raid, including bin laden's daughter. nic robertson joins us from abbottabad from the compound. nic,

and pakistan. so publicly you will get these messages that, yes, they're committed to renewing this relationship and trying to do more, but there is a private side as well. and with so much pressure from the public here who point to their own government and say why are we doing the bidding of the united states when it only causes more problems for us here, when we are the ones who actually suffer from these attacks, and you often find both the military and the government here playing to those anti-american fears. so once again, saying one thing on one hand to america but another thing to a domestic audience. >> okay, stan grant, thank you very much, stan. >>> here's your chance to "talk back." today we are asking, is it okay for a presidential candidate to avoid the media? carol costello here to explain if it's even possible. >> here's the premise. let me lay this by you. are we getting to the point where democratic candidates talk mostly to msnbc and republicans talk mostly to fox news? former rep

but in pakistan. the third image is of young arabs in tunisia, e -- egypt, libya, and taking bullets to speak freely, and participate in deciding how they will be governed and hold their government accountable for the provisions of basic services and the possibility of a better life. the determination of those protesters in their millions to demand far more, even in desperately poor and hidden countries is exactly the attitude of responsibility and self-reliance that we hope to see among the people of afghanistan, but too often do not. indeed, many reports from the field describe a culture of dependence, corruption, and inflated expectations. as we rephrase, it's worth bearing those three images in mind, the things that connect them and the disjunctures between them. we seek a secure, stable, and self-reliant afghanistan that does not provide sanctuary for al qaeda, and that is a crossroads for increasingly prosperous and secure region. i disagree that afghanistan is a strategic distraction. it's a st

there are pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on a collision course both say they're committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geopolitical interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but after the u.s. navy seal raid that killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact of the world's most wanted was discovered in the campout near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some will go to colleagues in the oceans . deep reservations about whether it. is the same goals or prepared to be a full partner in pursuing those goals and there are calls in some quarters in chorus for a shift in the aid program. less there is an improvement in the church iteration while american lawmakers may be losing

aid into pakistan and. we have come up with some givens that they're pretty who obvious, and you have alluded to some of them, namely that we have got to do a better job of explaining the mechanics of a. what is the difference between obligated money and all of that so you do not have the spectacle of the finance minister saying we've done $345 million worth of aid, and the american say that is wrong. we have given you $900 million. we ought to be on the same sheet of music, and that is something we ought to do to clarify and explain what it is and when it is going to come out, and when it is not going to come out. it seems to me and we need a sharper focus. even though there are five priority areas -- energy, education, health -- i forget the others. it seems to me when i look at this thing is all over the place, and it would be better if we did in one or two things where we could make a difference, and which could be just education, health, something like that. that is not my question. it turns out that o

in pakistan. for that, we go to newshour special correspondent saima mohsin in abbottabad, pakistan. jeffrey brown spoke with her a short time ago. >> brown: welcome. tell us a little bit more about the situation there at the compound right now and also a bit more about the town itself. >> well, the compound has tonight been sealed and cordoned off. this is as close as we can get to it. it's about a thousand meters down this road. i don't know if you can see the police officers behind me who are patrolling up and down making sure that no media can get through. we are hoping to get closer to it tomorrow. but as it stands tonight it's been sealed off. we understand the body has been taken away. just to give you a sense of exactly where we are in the city, abbottabad is actually a holiday resort. a lot of people retire here. people have summer houses here. it's in a hilly area in pakistan in the north of pakistan. it's very picturesque. it's quite a sleepy town really. a lot of amazement. but amongst

we try to sign with pakistan a treaty on deportation we can do poor people back to pakistan who may threaten this country and that is something i discussed with those when i was there recently but also trying to reform in we had a very productive sort of meetings with council members and widespread support so it took more attention from the nationalists. >> the conclusions said and those who are completely rejecting those and my honorable friends and i think that is true so the prime minister of the house but to foster democracy also respect human rights in north africa i think there are bilateral actions we could take as the old and successful democracy that we should make of updating the foundation as we have discussed before. the biggest up is for the upn union to radically overhaul the program with assistance to the middle eastern neighbors and countries and frankly the program has been quite extensive but not successful to put into place the building blocks of democracy >> would it my friend agree although to build up democracy and long term but also improve security in the short term w

what is pakistan? >> logan: it currently has the title of "ally." >> right-- deceptive. >> logan: so you think its title should be? >> it should be a hostile country, a hostile state. >> pitts: this is jerry kane, a member of an antigovernment movement known as sovereign citizens. >> i don't want to have to kill anybody. >> pitts: kane did kill-- two police officers over a simple traffic stop. the f.b.i. now lists the group among the nation's top domestic terror threats. there are an estimated 300,000 sovereign citizens. alfred adask is one of them. you said, "we have the right to keep and bear arms in order to shoot our own politicians, to shoot the police, to shoot your local government officials, your state officials, your president, your congressman, your senators." >> yep. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm katie couric. >> i'm lara logan. >> i'm byron pitts. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories tonight on "60 minutes." [ male announcer ] your hard work has paid off. and you want to pas

it... these are unfair allegations on pakistan. pakistan has done so much. we have lost over 3,000 soldiers and officers in this war. we have cleared so many areas. so many al qaeda leaders have been apprehended by our intelligence agencies. of course, there was a sharing of intelligence with the other side, as well. so, with these kind of performance and record, if still someone is not satisfied, then we are not to be blamed in this. >> smith: but frontline's investigation found that taliban leaders still move freely around the country. my colleague, stephen grey, made contact with a taliban commander currently sheltering in pakistan. he arranged to meet him just outside the capital, islamabad, not far from where osama bin laden was killed. the commander told us how dependent the taliban is on sanctuary in pakistan to wage war across the border. >> grey: is the border hard to cross? >> frankly, we don't know on any given time or day what side the pakistanis are on. there is overwhelming evidence that, you know, even as the pakistani government takes, you kn

the question about pakistan. where is he? pakistan. do the pakistanis know? now pakistan is involved. look at the map of where they found bin laden. they found bin laden in the compound. this is 1,000 yards away from bin laden's house. that's it. bin laden's house is surrounded by 18-foot walls and barbed wire. it's not exactly subtle. the town is filled with retired generals. pakistan is not looking good in this scenario. if you knew since august, did you not have that debate inside the administration behind closed doors? and think through what is going to happen with pakistan if we go in and take out bin laden? what to say to them? what to say to your own people and what to say to the whole world. the administration is trying to make us believe they didn't have the conversations. the administration are criticizing pakistan and demand we reconsider the $3 billion in aid we give to them. think of that. $3 billion in aid. what do we do? we give them the aid because if we don't the moderate will collapse. it would cripple them if we cut it off. others in the ad

approved by pakistan. so that was a cnce that was being taken with it but he had good well-placed faith in the ability of the people carrying it out. the intelligence convied him it was a good call and that's a hard piece, if you can recall, the chemical factory in sudan turned out not to be a chemical factor you have the people doing the raid and then you go andou get on your hands and watch them do it. i give him credit for doing it. >> charlie: is this the forerunner when you have the military cia combination special ops troops. >> i hope so. back when i was director of national intelligence, i talked about the need for a thing called title 60. now title 10 is what military operations are authorized under title 50 is what intelligence operations are authorized under. there's a ve sharp distinction, what you can do, whether it's deniable. i think that's irrelevant where we are now with these groups like al-qaeda and ungoverned parts of the world where host governments cannot enforce law and in order. we

what could pakistan -- what should pakistan have done? >> well, i don't think that i would have looked at it from international law point of view or legalities or juris prudence points of view. it should have been pakistan forces. u.s. forces violated our sovereignty. and certainly it would have and my own people would have. therefore, any leader in pakistan allowing this is -- his own reputation is at stake. rightly so. therefore, i would have -- wouldn't have liked it. objected. but i would not have objected to the killing of osama bin laden, whether it was violation of any law or -- >> american administration to have informed you. >> yes. >> possibly included pakistani forces in the raid. is that what you are saying? >> no. i would have certainly insisted it be pakistan's special forces going to deal with it. >> here is the problem. you are president obama and know there has been a breakdown in trust between pakistan and america. high level. trust is not what it used to be. there are good reasons for that. you get intelligence of bin l

-pakistan relations. he is a fellow at the faces society and also a professor at columbia university's south asia institute. he is a government official in the administration of the prime minister benazir bhutto, so please join me in welcoming hasan. thank you. [applause] >> thanks, susan. welcome all once again on behalf of usip and the asia society. i worked on pakistan. the institute. we are very pleased to be co hosting this event with the asia society. i just want to set up few ground rules to let everyone how we will proceed and say a few words. please make sure your cellphones are turned off or are on silent. major you remembered you turn them on when you leave the room. also for the panelists, since we are on tv, please speak from the podium and then in the questions, speak closely into the microphone as possible. yours is not going to work. [laughter] we will start with an overview of the report for about 10 minutes, and then we will have our two panelists say a few words about the report. i will

that is certainly a feudal aspect of pakistan. in pakistan, you need protection. you need protection against your neighbors. you need protection against the police. you need protection against the courts who may be used by your neighbors against you. you need powerful protection. even when there is not genuine kinship, you have artificial kinship groups or faction for the sake of protection against all the predatory forces in which you're surrounded. quickly, this is quite a gallop being left out, but there is a balance, and, of course, it is dominant in pakistan, and they have 60% of the population, 75% or so of industry and so forth, but it is a very ambiguous province and when they talk about the establishment, it's something which is only quite a small chunk of even the wealthy, by even in pakistan, there is more similarity perhaps to india than immediately meets the eye in the term the establishment cannot dictate. there is often element of compromise. the classic example of this is the dam held out by pashtuns. the dam was talked about 60 years ago. three de

pakistan. a democratic timebomb is ticking with the median age of about 20 years, roughly 60 million use are a population of 180 million between 16 and 25 and are largely illiterate and unemployed. they live in a state that has spawned unbridled to craddick behavior among its leaders. while attention has been focused on the u.s.-pakistan relationship, the greatest influence on the rise of terrorism in pakistan is the lack of governance. the country faces an economic crisis due in part to global shots, but to a larger extent the ineptitude of reforms. the external shocks to the economy and policy hope create the perfect backdrop to the violent culture of terrorism in pakistan. countering the insurgency that inhabit pakistan today is the huge task for which pakistan has largely relied on military force. in the past, the army has changed his training regiment to focus on counterinsurgency, but still doesn't have relationship between counterinsurgency and counterterrorism in mind as the streaking c

how should president obama withach relationshi pakistan? >> you have to take a look at the relationship with pakistan in the war of terror and put it in the context of them having a nuclear weapon. we don't want pakistan to fall off the path that is the right path. we want to work very carefully with them so that they don't tip to the point where their government will fall into the control of the islamist extremists that would have access to a nuclear weapon. can we depend on them all the time? probably not. we have to use prudence and be careful. but we want them on our side and we cannot afford to have them be an enemy in this process. >> what you were working with president bush, the vice president was dick cheney. he has been speaking to the media in the past 24 hours a, suggesting a valuable information was gained in the raid from people at guantanamo bay. do you think the killing of osama bin laden justifies what happens there? >> i don't know the source of information that led to a osama bin laden opposing the whereabouts. i suspect

it happened early monday, pakistan time, at a heavily fortified compound in a city north of pakistan's capital islamabad. a team of u.s. navy s.e.a.l.s raided the compound, shot it out with bin laden and others, and killed the al qaeda leader. late last night, president obama summoned reporters to the white house press room to announce the successful mission, which followed months of intelligence work and planning. >> a small team of americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. no americans were harmed. >> bin laden's body was recovered and u.s. officials say it was later buried at sea. the announcement of bin laden's death triggered celebrations outside the white house, at ground zero, and elsewhere across the country. >>> this is the "cbs morning news." ? oh, bayer aspirin? i'm not having a heart attack. it's my back. it works great for pain. [ male announcer ] nothing's proven to relieve pain better than extra strength bayer aspirin. it rushes relief to the site of pain. feel better? yeah. thanks for the tip. it rushes relief to the site of pain. it

in one of the most secure towns in all of pakistan. some 120,000 retired and active duty army personnel live here. and pakistani officials insist that not one of them noticed when osama bin laden moved in. they're now desperate to put this huge embarrassment behind them. >> what we are trying to do here is to look to the future. this issue of the osama bin laden, it's history. >> reporter: but american officials want to know, were the pakistanis just incompetent whed they missed this hiding place right under their noses or did they actually collude with al qaeda? elizabeth palmer, cbs news, abbottabad, pakistan. >> couric: one man who perhaps should have known about bin laden's hiding place is pervez musharraf, the former president of pakistan. lara logan is our chief foreign affairs correspondent and lara, when you spoke with him today he seemed to get a bit defensive. >> reporter: he certainly did, katie. when general musharraf was in charge osama bin laden was already living in the compound where he was killed and we asked the gener

aid going to pakistan? i know there is a lot of outrage that the united states spent $20 billion in aid to pakistan but doesn't seem like we've got our investment back, a return. >> some of that is military reimbursements and it's supposed to be for counterterrorism activity. literally the pakistanis would send a bill to the pentagon which somebody who have to go review for their activities in crunt terrorism. well, since they have been very reluctant to go into some of the areas that the u.s. has been most concerned about, a lot of people in congress are asking why are we paying this bill? gwen: are serious people asking that? >> some very serious people are asking that. john kerry, while he has not advocated cutting it, has raised the point that many of his colleagues have been advocating cutting it. not just people driving by. gwen: you know we have been obsessed, focused like a laser beam as they say, on what's been happening in south asia and northern africa and the middle east especially in the last c

osama bin laden's presence in pakistan was not to pakistan's advantage. >> will heads roll? >> heads will roll once the investigation has been completed. now, if those heads are roll on account of incompetence, we will share that information with you. and if, god forbid, somebody's complicity is discovered, there will be zero tolerance for that, as well. >> pakistan's ambassador to the u.s. with our christiane amanpour. >>> and we are learning more about the bin laden tapes released this weekend. seized during the raid on his compound, one week ago. tonight, just how is the white house hoping the world views them? and in particular, members of al qaeda. here's david kerley on that part of the story tonight. >> reporter: these pictures, of the gray-bearded terrorist, watching himself on tv, are a propaganda bonanza. the u.s. is hoping just these few seconds of video shatters a decade 0 myth-making. the u.s. released this picture on purpose? >> this shows the reality. this man is not a fighter. this man is not carrying his - ak-47. >> reporter: charlie allen watched with us, a