al qaeda was in charge. now the taliban are in charge. but the people who had me and everybody i talked to along the afghan/pakistani border all those many years i worked there said that there's really no difference at a fundamental level between the views of the pakistani taliban, and al qaeda. they will both will continue to fight. >> all right. cbs news consultant jerry van dyke. thanks so much for being with us. and his book "captive: my time as a prisoner of the taliban" is available in stores and online. >>> when we return, more of our special coverage on the death of osama bin laden. this is the "cbs morning news." moms love tulips. any second now, they are going to place me at the center of the table. edible arrangements bouquets beautiful like flowers, but unforgettably delicious, any second now... visit, call or go to ediblearrangements.com now you can brew over ice for delicious iced coffee or tea. hot or cold, keurig is the way to brew everyone's favorite cup in under a minute. choose. brew. enjo

what can this tell us about al qaeda? these guys don't seem to be fighting a global jihad here. >> bergen: no. i mean, it looks like they're fighting a local insurgency. i mean, they probably want to kill some european or american soldiers if they can. they'd probably be happy with killing some afghan policemen. >> smith: so it's like a local franchise of... >> bergen: yeah, i think... >> smith: ...of al qaeda. >> bergen: yeah. i mean, there's all sorts of... you know, it's like being in the mafia. some people are made guys, some are sort of, you know... there's a very relatively small number of people who are actually really members of al qaeda. >> smith: what does it mean to be a member of al qaeda? >> bergen: well, in my view, a real member of al qaeda is somebody who's sworn a sort of religious oath of allegiance to bin laden not to... you don't swear an oath of allegiance to al qaeda; you swear a personal oath of allegiance to bin laden. it's not an easy thing to become a member of al qaeda. there are tens of thousan

>> al-qaeda is al-qaeda. and it's the group that he formed and it is the problem that we have had to deal with now as you note here for many years. the distance between us and the muslim world or in particular in some cases the arab world continues to grow. it has not narrowed arab spring as not won us great friends anywhere. and it's somewhat seen in the way that this killing has been reflected in arab thinking. you have many container activities to our narrative being developed. some say he wasn't killed, that's a minority view. many say he was assassinated, that he was executed, and it was ready to surrender. there are others who say that he was set up because zarqawi had a counter-approach to al- qaeda and wanted to assume leadership. all of it reflecting the fact that we are not trusted and we are not believed in the region we have a big problem in the region. it's not just al-qaeda, but it's also not the other muslim groups. it's our credibility and i think that to some degree the way this story has pla

>> al-qaeda is al-qaeda. and it's the group that he formed and it is the problem that we have had to deal with now as you note here for many years. the distance between us and the muslim world or in particular in some casesethe arab world continues to grow. it has not narrowed arab spring as not won us great friends anywhere. and it's somewhat seen in the way that this killing has been reflected in arab thinking. you have many container activities to our narrative being developed. some say he wawa't killed, that's a minority view. many say he was assassinated, that he was executed, and it was ready to surrender. there are others who say that he was set up because zarqawi had a counter-approach to al- qaeda and wanted to assume leadership. all of it reflecting the fact that we are not trusted and we are not believed in the region we have a big problem in the region. it's not just al-qaeda, but it's also not the other muslim groups. it's our credibility and i think that to some degree the way this story has pla

of al qaeda. and now the infrastructure's going to come tumbling down and we can see what else we can do. >> you think the infrastructure of al qaeda that bin laden was so important as the linchpin or is that based on the fact that we got intelligence from where we killed him? >> both of those things. first off, osama bin laden is the ideological glue to what al qaeda believes. al qaeda was not just the man, it was the entire infrastructure that he had built about this philosophy of taking over the muslim world and then the world and creating this clash of civilizations where islam will defeat democracy. not only was he overtaken by events recently in the middle east with democracy throughout the muslim world, which had nothing to do with al qaeda. not one word of his philosophy was used in that. he's dead. now his followers, the hangers-on, the people under him, his lieutenants, they have to justify their very existence in an islamic world that proou proved that islamic democracy does not need vi

what it tells us about al qaeda, al qaeda had this vaulting ambition, a caliphate from indonesia to spain. now, with the waves of modernity sweeping the middle east, there sits this old man with a tv remote, and "the new york times" reported early on that one of the notebooks, handwritten in his handwriting, i gather, his project was to derail an american train on a bridge, perhaps coinciding with the state of the union address, you don't build a caliphate derailing american trains. it's a pathetic ambition. >> so are they kind of pathetic? i know everybody is worried. people want to know whether there are any real threats to american interests and other interests out there. was osama bin laden really, really the mastermind still as the narrative is telling us right now, organizing, operating? >> it's very hard to imagine that in that compound where you see how pathetic it was and how carefully controlled the entry was to have it as a nerve center. it seems to -- it stretches the imagination. i think the fact is al qaeda hasn't been able to operate very well for the last eight years and b

al qaeda's not." guest: i think with respect to the arabic-speaking world, when i left afghanistan in 2004, my last tour as a uniformed military officer, i spent the next five years in lebanon and egypt. returning to egypt just a few months ago for the revolution, it was remarkable degree to which al qaeda is not really an issue in the arabic-speaking world, and the radical extremist brand of islam espoused by al qaeda was really a non-factor, and a lot of the things taking place in libya and syria and egypt. there has been a degree of rejection of that ideology, which was never that popular to begin with. however, richard clarke is correct when he says that al qaeda is still the danger. al qaeda's affiliate's remain somewhat strong, a small but dedicated cadre of supporters throughout not just the arabic- speaking world, but europe and indonesia, maybe. these groups maintain operational capability that we shouldn't underestimate. host: michigan, richard joins us. republican line. caller: good morning

al qaeda. (laughter) >> stephen: and you know who i blame? al qaeda. (laughter) >> stephen: just listen who they want to replace bin laden with. >> this is the man who many consider likely to get the job al zawahiri but also known as a pretty divisive figure within al qaeda. >> we are told that zoo what wir-- al zoo qa heri is not that popular in the organization. >> he is not charismatic. >> he is a prickly guy, unpleasant human being. >> stephen: come on. if one thing to be a mass murdering terrorist but do you have to be such a dick about it? (laughter) >> stephen: evidently, evidently being a terrorist leader is like anything else, you got to motivate the people below you, you know. hey, nice try on the underwear bomb. we'll get them next time. (laughter) >> stephen: grandpa's crabby beard over here is losing them the key demo. >> i was struck recently looking at a poll down in yemen and for al qaeda was more popular among older people than it was with people in their teens and 20s. >> step

>> al-qaeda is al-qaeda. and it's the group that he formed and it is the problem that we have had to deal with now as you note here for many years. the distance between us and the muslim world or in particular in some cases the arab world continues to grow. it has not narrowed arab spring as not won us great friends anywhere. and it's somewhat seen in the way that this killing has been reflected in arab thinking. you have many container activities to our narrative being developed. some say he wasn't killed, that's a minority view. many say he was assassinated, that he was executed, and it was ready to surrender. there are others who say that he was set up because zarqawi had a counter-approach to al- qaeda and wanted to assume leadership. all of it reflecting the fact that we are not trusted and we are not believed in the region we have a big problem in the region. it's not just al-qaeda, but it's also not the other muslim groups. it's our credibility and i think that to some degree the way this story has pla

al qaeda central is still a threat. had been to an al qaeda training camp and was getting direction from the core leadership of al qaeda. but that's an exception and the kind of threat we have looked at here in the u.s. over the last several months and years as not so much directed by bin laden but by either splinter groups or home grown terrorists. you won't see any change in the threat othe u.s. and no threat in the response. >> pete williams in washington for us tonight. thank you very much. i want to go ahead and replind all of you. this major development in the hunt for the moist wanted man in the world, osama bin laden announced dead by the president this evening, killed by u.s. special operations forces. saying president obama called to inform me that u.s. forces killed osama bin laden. i congratulated him and the men and women of our military and intelligence communities who devoted their lives to this mission. this achievement marks -- the fight against terror goes on but america has sent an unmistakable messag

driven by an al qaeda ideology. not bin laden personally. >> there's every reason to believe that now they are operating largely under their own banner. >> reporter: today al qaeda satellites are active in yemen, somalia, pakistan, iraq, jordan, indonesia and even the ungoverned western sahara desert. the most dangerous to americans, experts say, is the one in yemen. the u.s. backed yemeni government is so weak it can't control its territory. al qaeda in yemen also has a track record of attacking the united states. the underwear bomber in 2009. a computer printer bomb shipped to chicago a year later. al qaeda in yemen also has a charismatic recruiter, anwar al awlaki. a native of new mexico, al awlaki's sermons are widely distributed online. he could become the new voice of al qaeda, with an american accent. al awlaki is considered so important, the united states tried to kill him thursday with a drone attack, but missed. somalia is another powder keg. when we visited last year, it was clear that al qaeda inspired m

nation building or defeating al qaeda, which certainly does not exist with one man, but we know al qaeda now is in several other countries, including yemen. >> sure. and the fact that you're asking that and i really don't know the answer tells me the president needs to be out front telling the american people what the mission is. i can tell you broadly that the mission is to fight the taliban so we don't leave behind in afghanistan what looked like it did in the 1990s where al qaeda had safe haven and struck the u.s., but the mission needs to be clear and it needs to be communicated continuously by the president, and the president deserves a lot of credit for what happened on sunday, for unilaterally going in there and gig the nod to do that, but at the same time he's been in office for two years, and he really hasn't talked a whole lot about either war. he's given very few speeches. he needs to communicate that mission, why we're there, and what our objectives are so we can withdraw with honor and with success. >> captain wade zerkel. thank you for joining us. the "news nation" gut chec

al qaeda likes chaos. that is what they benefit from. they benefit from leadership that they cannot manage their own government, and they benefit from outrage. those are the two things that this document is clearly playing with, and then this final thing, of course, is alluding to potential attacks against us. >> and we know that bin laden was there. their quintessential leader and one nugget that imka oucame outt he was not a figurehead, and he was involved in future plots and tactically, et cetera, and al qaeda says that he did not build an organization that will vanish or fade away with his departure, and with him gone, all of the partner groups did not pledge of allegiance to al qaeda, but to bin laden, himself, so with his death, what does this do to al qaeda? >> well, a couple of things. the documents like you said, they are interesting, because they show his historic operational interest and tactics. it has been ongoing for osama bin laden's life, and i remember in the 1990s with the african embassy

steve call, the author who knows al-qaeda so well, asked about what al-qaeda is still capable of. this is what he said in part. >> al-qaeda is a resilient organization but it is not stredistred i spreading or growing so it has the capability of carrying out attacks that we saw christmas before last where al-qaeda almost blew up an american airliner with several hundred people on board. once in a while it could kill hundreds of people. that ought to get our attention but it need not be the basis for organizing every aspect of our national life or our national defense. >> do you agree with that or not? >> i don't know if i were to agree it's not spreading. i think if you look over the last few years, you've seen a greater presence with al-qaeda or affiliation with al-qaeda in north africa, obviously in yemen and somalia and even parts of central africa. we don't know what the strategy of going for the big attack, which we always assumed was a core element of the strategy, was delivered by bin laden personally. now that he's gone, there may be an opportunity for others who have diffe

it is still al qaeda. it is still the extremists, the jihadists, who, you know, haven't shifted from their position because bin laden's been killed. i think always safer because of the operation to take down bin laden. i think we are in a number of respects. in part, it will be due to this information that we were just discussing. there is the potential, we don't know that, but there is the potential for enormous amount of actionable intelligence directed toward individuals that perhaps before now we didn't have a lead on, understanding of their financial issues, communications patterns, training and safe house locations. there is a lot of information that could ultimately make us much safer because it will lead to a speedier takedown of al qaeda as an organization. >> do you think, mike, we would have learned anything farther had osama bin laden been taken alive or was he the kind of al qaeda operative leader that would never have given things up? >> that's a great question. it is one of those questions t

we worry because al qaeda has ma metastasized. it's a great row leaf to know this man is no longer walking. >> when you saw the president take the podium, was it what you thought? >> no. i thought it would come years ago and the announcement would come from president bush. but i have to say, i was thrilled and i was rooting for him tonight, the way i rooted for the president on that day because we are one country. and i think that our military deserves -- deserved the credit he gave them tonight. i was very happy to hear him say that because these guys have wanted him so bad. i mean, i'm talk about bin laden. so, i was thrilled that they could do an up close and personal attack rather than getting him from the skies with a predator. >> and i don't know if you saw as we were on earlier tonight, you must have been thrilled to see that spontaneous scene at the white house have hundreds have started to gather and sing the star spangled banner. >> i actually became very emotional hearing that. i wish i could be with them. the american

al qaeda brand? >> well, that's the question, george. there's a debate in the intelligence community, has been for a long time, as to whether or not he had any ongoing guidance role or management role. i think the bottom line is, it shouldn't make any difference in the operations of the organization because he really wasn't doing micromanagement. it is going to hurt their reputation at a time when it has already been hurt badly by the arab spring. most rebellion has been taking place on arab countries have not involved al qaeda, at least not visuall initially. have involved a more youth rejecting al qaeda and succeeding in placing the government al qaeda tried for years to replace, like the government in egypt and couldn't. >> okay, richard, i want to go to martha raddatz right now. you've learned the united states actually has bin laden's body? >> security sources are saying they do have his body in custody. that is, of course, why they had to do the dna testing. they had the body. they wanted to do

al qaeda is still a dangerous enemy. as important as yesterday's kill was, but would not be quick to assume that what happened yesterday means any sharp change in direction of our trajectory in afghanistan. host: you lead the cia from 2006 through 2009, general. was this a part of the effort? caller: to great satisfaction, proud as any american would have been. know that the people in that room yesterday had the highest regard for them what i was there. i feel good because i know that they feel good. look, it has been a tough slog for the agency. it is a rare moment in deed when our successes are made public. this is one of those moments. host: seal team 6, what can you tell us about them? caller: not surprising, people are asking me if the cia could have done this on their own. seal team 6, not surprised, they took the overall intelligence from the agency and, despite what appears to be a problem with one of the helicopters, it was executed with precision. host: the washington post has this to say. host: what can you te

al qaeda brand? >> well, that's the question, george. there's a debate in the intelligence community, has been for a long time, as to whether or not he had any ongoing guidance role or management role. i think the bottom line is, it shouldn't make any difference in the operations of the organization because he really wasn't doing micromanagement. it is going to hurt their reputation at a time when it has already been hurt badly by the arab spring. most rebellion has been taking place on arab countries have not involved al qaeda, at least not visuall initially. have involved a more youth rejecting al qaeda and succeeding in placing the government al qaeda tried for years to replace, like the government in egypt and couldn't. >> okay, richard, i want to go to martha raddatz right now. you've learned the united states actually has bin laden's body? >> security sources are saying they do have his body in custody. that is, of course, why they had to do the dna testing. they had the body. they wanted to do

al qaeda's not." guest: i think with respect to the arabic-speaking world, when i left afghanistan in 2004, my last tour as a uniformed military officer, i spent the next five years in lebanon and egypt. returning to egypt just a few months ago for the revolution, it was remarkable degree to which al qaeda is not really an issue in the arabic-speaking world, and the radical extremist brand of islam espoused by al qaeda was really a non-factor, and a lot of the things taking place in libya and syria and egypt. there has been a degree of rejection of that ideology, which was never that popular to begin with. however, richard clarke is correct when he says that al qaeda is still the danger. al qaeda's affiliate's remain somewhat strong, a small but dedicated cadre of supporters throughout not just the arabic- speaking world, but europe and indonesia, maybe. these groups maintain operational capability that we shouldn't underestimate. host: michigan, richard joins us. republican line. caller: good morning

who do you see as taking over the al qaeda command structure? how big a blow is this for al qaeda? can anyone step into his shoes? >> there is also another potent symbolic force. he is not in a command position. there are forces in yemen and other places that do not take hierarchical instructions from them but were nonetheless inspired. the question is whether the various separate cells -- i would say in yemen you have the most potent franchise operating without the direction. it continues to be extremely important. it is trying to take advantage of the tsunami of change in the middle east and position itself to maximize its ability to create regional and global have oc. the command center is decentralized. bin laden.was in londo you have groups modeled after them. they will continue whether they are around or not. >> thinks you for your insight. let's speak to general keane. he is a former u.s. army vice chief of staff. he is on the line from washington. give us your insights. obama said the operation had been in the works for a while. how do you capture and kill osama bin laden?

the al qaeda operation? >> i had a conversation with an official who reiterated what john brennan was saying, and he said this was strategically important, not just symbolically important. the official i spoke to said they do believe that osama bin laden was involved in the long- term strategic planning in the direction of al qaeda and was useful as a recruiting tool in a way that ayman al-zawahiri, the no. 2, is not. zawahiri did not have the bona fides of bin laden. they went at considerable risk to american forces and at to relations with pakistanis as well. >> he mentioned it has agreements with pakistan, but he also gave reassurances -- he mentioned it disagreements with pakistan, but also give reassurances. >> the white house still recognizes the significance of a very troubled relationship with pakistan, but keen to give credit pakistanis. they have detained, he said, way more terrorists than any other country, and the pakistanis have been a close ally with terrorists internally. while there are quest

may not not emerge from al qaeda. somebody may emerge from outside al qaeda. >> a final quick thought, pakistan is central to this story, isn't it? of course, a place where osama bin laden has been killed, but do you foresee real tension now and real difficulties for the pakistani government as a result of what's happened? >> everybody has been foreseeing real change and real difficulties for the pakistani government for about 50 or 60 years, and it's actually never brought the country down. it's a difficult place. it's pretty difficult to understand or even explain from outside. there will be difficulty, there will be all the normal sort of rhetoric and conspiracy theories and all the rest of it. but this will heal the very troubled pakistani-american relationship, and that alone will do a lot to stabilize the country. >> jason burke, thanks for that insight and analysis. i'm joined now from kabul by haroon, a political analyst who was an aide to afghanistan's former defense minister and leader of the northern allian

people in al qaeda see him as a historical first. we were expecting an osama bin laden videotape, because, we thought he prepared one knowing he's going to die at one point. instead we get this one which basically does not put him in a particularly flattering light. >> and peter bergen will be joining us live next hour from los angeles to expound more on this. >> our extensive coverage will continue right after this. mom! mom! [ male announcer ] you know mom. mom! [ male announcer ] we know diamonds. and with an extra 10% off storewide now through saturday, we'll make this mother's day one she'll never forget. that's why only zales is the diamond store. everything you need to stretch out on long trips. residence inn. ♪ everything you need to stay balanced on long trips. residence inn. coldwell banker. we never stop moving. this. >>> back to our breaking news today. the u.s. releasing five videos from the compound where osama bin laden was killed in pakistan. >> there seems to be visual proof that he really was there. one video show

the al qaeda narrative was playing out. interestingly, in egypt and north africa, i do see growing strength of for the kind of islam that bin laden embraced. you see when women wearing the full veil in a way they never would have before. that kind of faith is very much alive. >> that is an interesting complexity. is it possible that the arab spring might have prepared much of that part of the world for the message and ideals that bin laden espoused? >> what we saw during the tahrir square revolution was a country come together to see the divisions of religious, economic, political not the way and a national self assertion. if that spirit remains strong in egypt and these other countries, you can be hopeful that the al qaeda idea that that notion about change would be defeated. if that democratic revolution falters, if there is economic chaos in egypt, if there is insecurity in the streets, the world will have an appeal. just as the taliban had an appeal. these fundamentalists will have an appeal in egypt. >> the detailed --

he was the face of al qaeda terror. he was important in fund raising, recruiting, and clearly a master mind in terms of operations. now obviously he had to spend a lot of time not being caught. so he wouldn't get down into the nitty-gritty one would think. but clearly a critically important factor in the success al qaeda's had. >> schieffer: what do you think of the fact that here he was right in the middle of this town right next to a military facility and the pakistanis didn't seem to know about it? do you think that's possible or did they know? >> i think it is possible. i don't know whether they knew. i think we ought to be asking the questions that you're asking and that senator kerry is asking. however, if you go from the pentagon up the potomac river and look at those big estates up there with gated walls and trees and hidden from sight, we don't know what's going on there. it is possible that someone like that with a support system al qaeda support system in my view very likely could hide in plain sight. i mean

but two other al qaeda operatives were killed, we are told. all part of a stepped up campaign to go after al qaeda leaders around the world. this american-born cleric, it's believed he inspired the times square attack and may have been behind the failed underwear bomber attack christmas day in the united states. ellio? >> is it fair to say he's been part of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and they've been plotting nor attacks over the last year or two years? >> he's pretty much seen to be the operational leader of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. twice now, they have demonstrated the actual ability to reach out and touch the united states, if you will. in the airline attack and even though the times square plot failed, said to be the inspiration behind it. and that puts their power right on u.s. soil. elliot? >> that's exactly right. and they're operating in a failed state, which makes it easier for us to open rate there, but fewer constraints on them. now let's go back to the president. he discussed the osama bin laden attack while addres

officer who said that the unit was respble for trying to track down al qaeda al qaeda al qaeda. he's now a professor of security studies at georgetown university and the author of the book "osama bin laden." he says osama's death is a success to the current u.s. administration. >> i think the men and women involved in the ground in this operation deserve high praise, and it couldn't be -- there couldn't be better news at the moment, but i think we all need to keep in mind, as your last clip said, that bin laden is an idea as much as an organization, and it's very much much more difficult to kill an idea than it is a man. unfortunately, for us and the americans and their allies, we still have a very long hill to climb. >> explain to us the kind of obstacles that you and your team met in trying to track down osama bin laden. after all, this search has taken over nine years. , it's taken 16 i was very fortunate. i ran operations very early in our effort against osama bin laden, and between may of 1998 and may of 1999, we were able to pinpoint him on 10 different occasions, and mr.

driven by an al qaeda ideology. not bin laden personally. >> there's every reason to believe now they're operating under their own banner. >> reporter: today al qaeda satellites are active in yemen, somalia, iraq, pakistan, jordan, indonesia and even the ungoverned western sahara desert. the most dangerous to americans, experts say, is the one in yemen. the u.s. backed yemeni government is so weak it can't control its territories. al qaeda in yemen also has a track record of attacking the united states. the underwear bomber in 2009. a computer printer bomb shipped to chicago a year later. al qaeda in yemen also has a charismatic recruiter, anwr al awlaki. his sermons are widely distributed online. he could become the new voice of al qaeda with an american accent. awlaki considered so important the united states tried to kill him thursday with a drone attack but missed. somalia is another powder keg. when we visited last year, it was clear that al qaeda inspired militants have more than a safe haven here. they contro

and they tell us we could gather all of the known al qaeda at al qaeda and afghanistan in this room yet we are spending ten or $12 billion a month in a war with the taliban which i've asked this basic question can we achieve what we want to achieve in afghanistan without defeating the allin? >> we can achieve that if we have a stable government in afghanistan that includes part of the taliban and that doesn't post al qaeda. if we can get an agreement where the taliban can meet certain basic conditions the can be part of the government and they do not host al qaeda than our interests are served. >> we are in the position we've pushback our troops and the have succeeded in pushing back enough but we are now in a strong enough position to enter the negotiations will not be the karzai government. it will be a coalition government with a set of conditions allow us to dramatically pulled down our forces. but we have had to push back for counter insurgency because of what we lost through the pure counterterrorism strategy and we need to move to the political face. >> i couldn't agree more. >>

al qaeda after bin laden. a warning from the c.i.a. director. >> i can assure you, whoever takes his place he will be number one on our list. >> couric: and not even the neighbors knew that in the house down the block lived the most- wanted terrorist in the world. captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news world headquarters in new york, this is the "cbs evening news" with katie couric. >> couric: good evening, everyone. from the site of the deadliest terror attack ever on u.s. soil. president obama will be here later this week to mark the end of the hunt for the man who ordered it, osama bin laden, killed sunday night in his hideaway in pakistan in a raid by u.s. navy seals. pulling the trigger on that operation was one of the toughest decisions the president has ever had to make. david martin is at the pentagon tonight and, david, based on what the president knew and didn't know, this was a very big gamble. >> couric: katie, the more you find out about this mission, the more you realize what a roll of the dice it was and how close it

in yemen, al-qaeda in the arabian peninsula. in north africa, a group involved in the kidnap and ransom. and here in britain, mi-5 are still tracking several al-qaeda- inspired plots. >> he is sort of a spiritual leader. at the operational level, he had already given over to ayman al- zawahiri. >> in yemen, al-qaeda has set up a new base. it presents a serious threat to the u.s.. it's ideal of addresses his followers in some english, radicalizing impressionable young britons and americans alike. their operations have failed, but the group is already planning the next one. on the other hand, the so-called arab spring on the front month. it has played no part in a mass movement where young, mostly secular arabs successfully over through the regime's that al- qaeda tried to topple. >> i think al-qaeda is a build of the week organization. it has suffered huge setbacks as a result of being seen to be behind the agenda in the middle east revolutions. >> but here in britain, where the national threat level is at severe, the terrorist a

they're rallying to al qaeda's side. we've even seen a couple factions identify, ayman al zawahari as the new amir and congratulating him. he seems like the obvious choice. he has some problems. he has leadership issues. we'll have to see if that's exactly what's going to happen. that is the perception of al qaeda's affiliates and franchises. >> two different stories coming out of bin laden. and his efficacy as the leader of al qaeda. the u.s. says he was able to plot future attacks, pakistani authorities say the man was pen penniless, barely clinging to power. how about the evidence? >> i wouldn't believe a word the pakistanis say right now, not a word. i think the evidence was clear that bin laden was still playing an operational role in controlling al qaeda's operations. he wasn't micromanaging every last detail. he might not have known the names of the operatives but clearly he was coming up with ideas to attack the united states here inside the u.s. borders. he was working out the details with other al qaeda operati