/pakistan relations. on behalf of the wefpg and our board members who are present tonight, dawn, gayle, donna and teresa, i want to welcome everybody here. we're so glad that you could join us for this behind-the-headlines event. these are events on hot issues in the news, and recently we've done events on egypt, libya, women in the middle east, um, and our event tonight is with ambassador husain haqqani, the pakistani ambassador to the who will be joined by our friend and frequent speaker and moderator, washington post's senior national security correspondent karen deyoung. for a conversation on u.s./pakistan relations. the event could not be more timely, as we all know, given the increased tensions in the relationship between the two countries following the killing of osama bin laden. we're so pleased to have the ambassador with us tonight to explore the complexities and the importance of this relationship and extremely lucky to have karen back. i want to recognize a few guests who are here with us toni

haqqani, taliban, dtp of pakistan is a taliban, tnsm of pakistan is taliban. his brother leading, now he's been killed, all of them are not in tandem with each other. in fact, many in afghanistan fight each other. so, therefore, it's not a monolith. so maybe we go back to 1989 where there'll be chaos, confusion and anarchy, everyone fighting each other. pakistan alone, again, fending for itself. so this was why, as i said, an antipathy against the united states. why is there a confidence and trust deficit between the united states and pakistan? which has got exacerbated all along, no trust at all in the last one and a half years, i think, finally leading to the action of osama bin laden which absolutely displays the lack of trust, lack of confidence between the two countries. very briefly, partially maybe it started back in be my time, in 2004 or '5 when i had a, i had a strategy of weaning the pashtun from the taliban, and, therefore, we started by addressing, putting together local jirgas, a tribal meeting of elders. thought we'd hold tribal jirgas and drew

in pakistan. without there being any american commitment actually to be there to protect us against that retaliation if that occurred. those are pieces of history. so many times those of you have had me. >> know this is my little clicÉe but i'm going to repeat it anyway because sometimes clichÉs are good and that is americans do a lot of things very well. america is a great nation which has contributed immensely to human progress, the idea of liberty and the idea freedom and the idea of democracy modern capitalism and globalization and everything and then of course more than any other nation in at least a 200 years. there is one thing americans don't do. two things americans don't do well. one is history. the american attitude to history is you know joe, he is history. [laughter] bar or all history is bunk. that is the attitude. there was a young man who introduced himself as a history of -- and i said when i was teaching this country they rob him was finding enough kids who wanted a history maj

and, therefore, we are stuck with a pakistan because i fear we withdraw, which? pakistan loses. oil we entice pakistan in various ways into collaborating in a stage withdrawal. so, this comes to the point that it really doesn't matter what happened in the past. if our goal is to somehow exit afghanistan without attempting to occupy it which is not a choice. we must deal with pakistan. i mean, who else can we? >> host: the question is not dealing with pakistan so much as what is the longer-term outcome in terms of are they going to come away from wherever we end up with a new status quo in afghanistan, we commit to the campaign of undermining their neighbor next door in india. that's -- >> guest: we can avoid that by staying in afghanistan permanently. or live with it. so here's exactly how i approach the foreign policy issue. you pose the question, if pakistan comes to be secure in afghanistan, we can destabilize india? may well. shall be therefore state permit in afghanistan? how do we prevent that? what i come to say yeah, i think pakistan and india have reasons to distrust ea

because then pakistan has to fend for itself. pakistan has to value this. i fear that all intelligence, diplomat, security people go for training to india. despite all my offers all along for free training in pakistan, not one came to pakistan. then of course, internally, pakistan ladies and gentleman has to be against extremism in our society other than terrorism, al qaeda, taliban. extremism in our society. stop the use and promotion of militancy from mosques of pakistan. stop publications, handbills, posters, pamphlets, urging people towards militancy, extremism. ban publications. ben distribution and selling. -- and distribution and selling. turkey has banned all promotion of extremism of terrorism at home and and abroad. lastly, eve of a strategy to mainstream -- evolve a strategy to mainstream the taliban. lastly, on a tactical issue, maybe the pakistan army has been overstretched. the better way of dealing, i personally think, is through a second line reinforcement. we need to equip them with tanks and guns, make them strong enough. because they are

but pakistan is, could he be telling the truth that pakistan was unaware of this. are they playing a conscious double game? is there a group within pakistan that's subverting a larger group in pakistan. what's happening? >>. >> i think it's coming from the pakistani army which actually dominates the state of pakistan. that's been true since they hanged the prime minister in 1977 and took over either directly during the dictato dictatorships or through civilian governments, none of which served out their term, up until now. the military has dominated afghanistan. and it's the military through the isi which is as president mush ar av said, isi follows orders, part of the command structure and they do what the chief of the army staff ie president musharraf, when he was army chief of staff and dictator, tell them to do. so it's not rogue outfits within the intelligence organization, it's actually a policy, a strategy of the-- . >> jon: what is the advantage of that. when you say export extremist into afghanistan what is their strategic advantage because it doesn't seem

and pakistan and the raid on osama bin laden's compound in pakistan. this is moderated by senior national security correspondent for "the washington post" care and de young who stood by the group patricia ellis gives a brief opening remarks. this is an hour and 20 minutes. >> good evening everyone and welcome. i am going to start again. sorry. good evening, everyone, and welcome. i'm patricia less president of the women's foreign policy group. we promote women's leadership and of places pressing international issues of the day such as our topic for tonight, u.s.-pakistan relations. on behalf of the wfpg and board members present tonight, don, gayle, theresa, donna, i want to welcome everybody here. we are so glad that you could join us for this the high end of the headline yvette. these are evens on hot issues in the news and recently we have done a fence on egypt, libya, women in the middle east, and every event tonight is with investor husain haqqani, the pakistani ambassador to the u.s. who will be joined by our friend and frequent speaker and moder

it will have implications on pakistan. if you quit in 2014, whatever has been declared, obviously the best strategy for the taliban or the enemy, al qaeda and taliban, is to lie low, let time pass, and then rise again. so declaring... giving a timeline, i have always been saying that it ought to be effected, what effects do we want to create? you can't have it time related because then you'll be in the hands of the enemy, i would say. and if you leave in 2014 without stabilizing afghanistan, what will happen then? we need to visualize. >> well, the problem is... the difficulty i think for america is afghanistan hasn't been stable since, i guess, hannibal. (laughter) so the idea that we could stay there... (laughter). they don't appear to want to be stabilized so i mean... i guess the problem is can we really do that? can we do that for a country and is pakistan going to give them the room that they would need to do that or would they perhaps try and have some influence with the taliban adds well? >> well, first of all, i t

and pakistan are heating up again washington is suspending aid money to pakistan so we're going to ask how that move could affect the already poisonous relationship between the two countries will be right that. the official tee up location. called touch from the dumpster. on the. video. smiling. omissions feet now in the palm of your. machine. oh. well there's a field that's growing in the small town of courtside arizona see there is a very sharp divisions there between mayor ed foster the city council. and the police department in the area of the fighting has finally reached the pinnacle with the city now being put under martial law tensions have been growing ever since the city council raised water and sewage rates a first for the area in over ten years add to that a recent discovery that there had been widespread corruption when it comes to mailing out city paychecks and that gives you the back story but let's give you familiar with some of the players here as i already mentioned it we've got mayor ed foster who's fighting the city council the ones that are responsible for raising r

if some of the late in wasn't pakistan, then -- was in pakistan, then let's cut off assistance to pakistan. for every hamlet, there is a nail. the truth is -- for every hammer, there is a nail. the truth is, it has not always work. we would like it just to have that relationship. but cutting off aid to influence policy has not usually worked. that said, congress will listen to your military leaders, listen to the administration. after all, as a student of the united states history and as someone who had myers america's founding principles -- who admirers of america's founding principles, i do believe that there was a reason that the founding fathers and the author of the american constitution led foreign policy to be the richer -- the jurisdiction-- the actuae done by the legislative branch. elected officials and members of congress, who make a lot effort now in this day and age to try and understand other countries -- their primary effort is to understand -- i understand their own constituents. many of the constituents in the congress have been supportive. i respect them for asking the qu

but i have to go to pakistan. and one element of the story that i haven't really discussed so much as they demand that invited mary ann to margaret barker is to come up with him and his family in pakistan. and this man is like, what condi was to india, this man was to pakistan. but this is another question at the heart of the book. why did this incredibly powerful islamic political leader invited to jewish girl that he had been corresponding with for a year to live with them as his daughter. i mean, here he had nine children, but is inviting yet another woman to his house in pakistan. so it's one thing to sort of go back and forth as to who marion gmail it is, but then you need the historical context. where was pakistan at that time? influence among us, this book is also a book about america and pakistan, america and islam. so you know, i don't want to sort of loose sight of those aspects of the book and the fine-grained because marionette symbolizes a vehicle for a lot of these meditations. but as to the question

and governs pakistan. at this moment, it's not possible. >> it's a fear? >> it is a fear if it's the integrity is no more. >> how many nuclear bombs does pakistan have? >> i don't know. >> about? >> i don't know. >> 100. >> i don't know. >> you knew when you were the president. you wouldn't know that as president of pakistan? >> they don't give me that figure. why am i concerned whether it's 89 years. i am not concerned about the figures what difference does it make whether it's 54 or 94 or 150. you met with the governor of texas, rick perry. what was that about? >> nothing. he wanted to meet. maybe exchange views on what it would be. >> did you get the impression he is thinking of running for president? >> well, i think i did, yes. >> you think he will? >> you need to ask him, but i did get that impression. >> i agree and i think he will run, but i haven't met with him. you came away from the meeting thinking he is going to run? >> yes. >> let's talk about you a little bit. how do you feel? >> i hope i am

and pakistan are getting out that washington is suspending aid money to pakistan third pascal by move for a fact already poisonous relationship between the two countries. into it only when there was a mechanism to do the work to bring justice or. i have every right to know what my government should do if you want to know why i pay taxes. i would characterize obama as a charismatic version of american exceptionalism. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so sleep you think you understand it and then he's in something else here's some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't i'm sorry welcome to the big picture. let's not forget that we had an apartheid. i think. one well. we have the government says they're going to keep you safe get ready because you give them their freedom. well there's a few that's growing in the small town of courts arizona see there is a very sharp divisions there between mayor ed foster the city council and the police department in the area of the fighting has finally reached the pinnacle with the city now being put under

. >> america is concerned about pakistan. following their success in the osama bin laden operation, people are wanting to the ideas of stopping the terrorists in their tracks. >> pakistan might prove to be the major challenge in the so- called war on terror. the rising confidence of extremist groups is making observers extremely nervous, especially as the country is home to what the jihadists like to call the islamic bomb. the last time the world was jittery about security in pakistan was nearly a decade ago just after the 9/11 attacks when washington developed an emergency plans. we have been told that these plans are coming once again and they are contemplating the country expanding their nuclear arsenal at a time of weakness. these are the images behind the latest attack of nerves, a naval base in karachi. they destroyed two u.s.-made spy planes in a well-executed operation which is believed to have received support from elements within the armed forces. >> the raid on that particular naval facility was unique in this sens

the times square bombing was planned in pakistan. and they sold nuclear technology to iran and north korea in the '90s. >> stephen: oh, the '90s. let's stay angry about furbies an parachute pants. look, we need to give them an ultimatum. stop supporting terror or no more aid. >> stephen: easy now, buddy. this is a partnership, just like you and me. we're partners. but that doesn't mean you get to decide who my other friends are. >> stephen: i just think jill's a pitch. >> stephen: we're not having this conversation again. >> stephen: the point is, some of my other friends like to do things that you don't like to do. like skiing, or trying to kill you. >> stephen: but that has nothing to do with our friendship. >> stephen: wait, one of your friends wants to kill me? >> stephen: no. >> stephen: yay, me, stephen albert. >> stephen: wait, where did he come from. >> stephen: well, he was standing next to me but i was not hiding him. i just didn't notice or was hiding him. >> stephen: i want to kill you for your freedom. >> stephen: well t

and pakistan are heating up again washington is suspending aid money to pakistan three ask how do i move from the fact that already poisonous relationship between the two countries will be right back. into it all their military mechanisms to do the work to bring justice for accountability. i have every right to know what my government should do if you want to know why i pay taxes. but i would characterize obama as a charismatic version of american exceptionalism. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so silly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here see some other part of it and realize that everything you saw you don't charge for the big picture. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right. i think. either one well. we have a government says the keep you safe get ready because of their freedom. well there's a few that's growing in the small town of courtside arizona see there's a very sharp divisions there between mayor ed foster the city council and the police department in the area where the fighting has finally reached the pinnacle wit

is withholding $800 million in military aid to pakistan. a major indication that the rift between the two countries is only growing. the u.s. and pakistan are allies but there are major trust issues between the two, especially after u.s. special forces found osama bin laden hiding snuggly inside pakistan. standing by live in pakistan, reza, how does this impact u.s./pakistani relations? >> reporter: i think this hurts a relationship that's already on shaky ground. for years we have heard a lot of rhetoric from both sides, finger pointing, accusations. this is more than rhetoric. i think things changed after the raid on the bin laden compound here in pakistan in may. this was viewed by many here in pakistan as an embarrassment for the country and the military. it was viewed as a violation of pakistan's sovereignty by people here. i think ever since then, both sides have made moves that substantially changed the complexion of this relationship. withholding $ 00 million of u.s. aid is significant. this is cash and military equipment. the messa

pakistan at war with itself. by "washington post" correspondent pamela constable dell ofs into all of this. and joins us now, it is good to you have with us. >> thank you so much. >> woodruff: a provocative title, playing with fire, pakistan at wore with itself. what dow mean by that? >> it mean bes-- many layers of meaning in that. playing with fire in the sense that pakistan has always flirted with dangerous notions. it's always sort of had this nuanced subtle, denied unclear relationship with all these militant groups mostly because they want us to use them as proxies against india which is their long-term adversary but now it has come back to haunt them and many of these same militant islamic groups that they sort of thought they could manage or handle have gotten way out of control and not only moving against afghanistan but in many cases turning against the pakistani state itself. >> you spent a lot of time in the country reporting from there, pam constable. the feeling many ode pakistanies have for the tal

pakistan has yet to prove which side they are really on. so much so that when osama bin laden was taken out by the american military we did not trust pakistan enough to even tell them that we were going to -- we were going to come into their country. our distrust against that country has been proven over and over again since that date. on may 16 "the wall street journal" reported that over 40% of the money that pakistan requests for reimbursement for military aid is denied by the federal government because those claims are unfounded by the federal government. in one case last year the united states paid millions of dollars to refurbish four helicopters to help pakistan's army transport troops into battle against the taliban. but it turned out that pakistan diverted three of those aircraft to peace keeping duties in sudan prakeses which pakistan receives compensation from the united nations. other claims include a $26 million charge for barbed wire and pickets and $70 million for radar maintenance although there's no enemy air threat related

is withholding $800 million in military aid to pakistan. a major indication that the rift between the two countries is only growing. the u.s. and pakistan are allies but there are major trust issues between the two, especially after u.s. special forces found osama bin laden hiding snuggly inside pakistan. reza how does this impact u.s./pakistani relations? >> reporter: i think this hurts a relationship that's already on shaky ground. for years we have heard a lot of rhetoric from both sides, finger pointing, accusations. this is more than rhetoric. i think things changed after the raid on the bin laden compound here in pakistan in may. this was viewed by many here in pakistan as an embarrassment for the country and the military. it was viewed as a violation of pakistan's sovereignty by people here. ever since then, both sides have made moves that have substantially changed the complexion of this relationship. $800 million in cash and military equipment. the message here is we are not happy with the effort you are making. if you want to cont

finally let me turn to pakistan. we all accept the long-term stability in afghanistan depends on stability in pakistan. when i met president zadari. like amended the pakistan's security forces in tackling violent extreme as in the northwest of the country but as the prime ministers said the situation in pakistan continues to be serious. there's a danger that the death of osama bin laden which should be welcomed on all sides will not have that effect in pakistan. i asked him there for what steps he has taken for british support of counter-terrorism in pakistan at the heart of our relationship to the pakistan government. we all want to see british troops come home at the earliest opportunity, not least all the families and friends of those who are currently serving in afghanistan. we also want to see the campaign concluded in a way that ensures their service and sacrifice has not been in vain and afghanistan and a wider region moves into a stable future rather than once again posing a serious threat to our security and

pakistan withholding $800 million in promised military aid to pakistan. the zus not happy with what you're doing. what do you do about it? >> first old all, i don't think that's a correct characterization. it includes $300 million in reimbursements that have just been slowed down. we haven't received a reimbursement since december 2010. so basically, it's just something that's already slow, having been slowed down more. the fact is that -- >> are you saying this is not a big deal? $800 million of aids has been suspended. >> both sides are working together on a number of things and pakistan is not happy with the pace of delivery of assistance. americans are not happy with the pace of delivery of certain deliverables from pakistan. it happens sometimes. right now because pakistan is a fledgling democracy and everything that happens there hits the media and there's an american domestic political context in which everything becomes an issue because of the way people react to your administration. this has become -- >> the reaction in pakistan to the u.s. decis

can't get to pakistan if pakistan won't allow its personnel on the ground. because that aid and the personnel come as a package deal. >> okay. now you know there's less aid going to pakistan. you have to wonder what kind of trust or eroded trust might there be now between pakistan and the u.s. to work together from here on out? >> it's really bad. there's been a lot of tit for tat after that raid on bin laden. then the pakistanis threw out the american trainers denying the visas. now the u.s. is withholding aid. you've got to wonder, as you said, what is this going to mean, this continued tit for tat? in the past in previous years when the u.s. has withheld aid, it's been very bad. you've seen a lot of drone strikes against pakistan without pakistani cooperation. sometimes they do cooperate. but now i think you're going to see a lot of the u.s. kind of going it alone as it sends a message to pakistan as it did after 9/11. you're either with us or against us and you have to play if we're going to pay, basically. >> thanks so much from washington. appreciate t

in other news, in pakistan -- a libyan leader has been shot dead by a gang. security forces are trying to put down protests in syria in the capital of damascus. a u.s. soldier has been arrested near the fort hood military base in texas after being found with bomb making materials. officials say the arrested serviceman, jason abdo nasser was planning an attack on military personnel. and now on the state of the u.s. economy. >> lawmakers failed to reach agreement on capitol hill and many americans are struggling under the burden of high unemployment and an uncertain financial future. it is a story reminiscent of that told by john steinbeck in his pulitzer prize-winning novel "the grapes of wrath," which was published 80 years ago. >> with unemployment rising, the great american job search goes on. albuquerque is still suffering from the bus that followed the house price boom. it posted a fall in unemployment in june due in part to a public sector job pick up. but those that do not succeed, there's the problem of where to live. george mÜnchen is a shelter for t

a bunch in pakistan. you mention pakistan. what they'd be any links to told with that group who were held responsible for the hotel bombings back in two thousand and eight when something like on from eighty people were killed there would there be links perhaps between those two organizations yes absolutely they had dearly could you have been back. if you remember any pakistani would be in who had infiltrated mumbai they claim concerns to be deprived of bacon would have been trying to. portray themselves as indians that do a part of the deccan mujahedeen it's a document you can actually comes from an indian would be less spin it does not has been the chilling this gentleman doing in which i had been able to lie seven eight years there have been providing logistical interventions uplift there have been trade. secret better hide out in pakistan and a lot of them to come back into india and then the remaining text or the dick or the emails is big boxes back in pakistan and getting them concluded by them and plan to get a strike by

drone attacks in pakistan want to fire a lawsuit at a former cia legal chief for approving attacks that killed hundreds of innocent. this week the phone hacking and police bribery scandal was taken to the british parliament rupert murdoch his son james and former c.e.o. rebecca brooks all grilled by british lawmakers for several hours the trio said they were deeply sorry for what happened however new on occasions have emerged that the news international james were misled by saying he was unaware of the true extent of illicit phone tapping by his company's reporters meanwhile questions are being asked over the death of journalist sean hoare the man credited with revealing the phone hacking scandal. reports it's striking parallels with another whistleblower. from another political scandal erupts another whistleblower diaries sean hoare was the first news of the world journalists to go on the record to alleged phone hacking was endemic at the paper and that its editor andy colson actively encouraged it who was found dead in his house on monday. into a frenzy of comparisons with the case of

india did plame elements within pakistan on the previous attack. do you think it might be a coincidence in that these attacks happened just months after the peace talks between pakistan and india started? >> it is inconceivable to me that pakistan would have any role in this. i say that because india and pakistan are now engaged in a dialogue. their foreign ministers are going to be meeting shortly. in july. there is also -- pakistan is facing multiple threats and crises internally. the recently had an outbreak of sectarian violence in karachi. we know how involved they are with what is going on in those things taking place in afghanistan. they also have the pakistani taliban attacking them. we're also the point of a new low in u.s.-pakistani relations. so the idea that pakistan would instigate a crisis with india at this point is inconceivable to me. >> what about indian intelligence-gathering and a security? there have been a number of threats, particularly since 2008. is this any reflection on the indian authorities competence in this area? >> t

where was pakistan at that time? in some ways this beak is also a book about america and pakistan, america and islam, so, you know, i don't want to sort of lose sight of those aspects of the book in, you know, in the fine grain because she is a vehicle for a lot of these sort of meditations, but as to the question of what i decided to do with her letters. i felt it was important for -- to have her as a vehicle for the reader to experience her letters, you know, with immediacy in her own words rather than me paraphrasing them or, you know, saying, you know, well, she says that she graduated from high school in 1953, but actually it was 1952. i find that correcting voice as a biographer is very distancing, and i wanted the readers to feel about her the way i felt about her when i first started reading the letters, to be completely sucked into her world, and, you know, if i, you know, had said at the outset that, you know, that she was institutionalized, then you know people will just say she's crazy and not have to wre

but talks between india and pakistan can be tricky. for india, the main issue is terror. they want more action against pakistan-based militant groups, especially those responsible for the 2008 attacks. and though very quick to respond after the capture and killing of osama bin laden on pakistani soil, pointing out that they believe pakistan could be seen as a staging grounds for militants operating across south asia. for pakistan, the main issue always has been and will be cashmere, the himalayan region which both sides lay claim to. but their positions become more complex following the arrest last week of an activist in washington, who was accused of being on the payroll of pakistan's spy agency. >> you're watching "newsday" on the bbc live. still to come on the program with, the london olympics exactly a year away, we look at how beijing has benefited from the game's legacy. >> and amy winehouse's father leads the tributes to his angel daughter, as family and friends attend the singer's funeral. >> e7bs of thousands of people have been -- 2e7bs of thousands of people ha

in the balance of thirty three million or so in pakistan they hate karzai even though he's a pashtun he is seen as a traitor his family is inextricably intertwined with much of the corruption and narcotics trafficking that is going on in afghanistan remember that under the taliban the narcotics trafficking was ten percent of what it is today so this is more like a mafia hit then it's a little bit and then that's that's a nation of a supported public figure you have a disses this is personal the pashtun want karzai and his family out ok so what does obama does the second letter what does obama want out of pakistan just now threatening to withdraw up to the eight hundred million dollars in military aid what's he trying to get out of them but i'm not sure he's the one who's driving it as much as it is probably of secretary of state clinton. who they are hoping that they can intimidate the pakistani government to cooperate more closely with us against elements inside their own country and afghanistan it's absurd pakistan has no interest in doing that most of the people that we're fightin

on pakistan so. i don't think we can just very briefly please we're talking live in mumbai obviously these are events are unfolding at the moment this could be the start of many more explosions tell us what is it like to be there at the moment how the emergency services what's the mood like is there panic there in the streets in mumbai just briefly. then again he's been he didn't do the simple big yahoo because. it was full of i knew the last twenty years. you know that but he was. the head of the speedometer. and he does the and i'm the. straight maker that i should look asian and i was really. really good. to be here yet who gives. a three star. or a fish to town thanks very much indeed investigations editor with the to help weekly magazine live there in mumbai. other news now this hour rupert murdoch's media empire has announced it's to withdraw its bid to buy outright control of the u.k.'s biggest satellite broadcaster b. sky b. it's the latest twist to the phone hacking crisis that's engulfed th