bob costas with us here in the studio. bob, what's the reaction been today? >> well, i don't think that jerry sandusky did himself much good last night. there's also a general reaction that, as you put it leading into this, on the one hand it's offputting. on the other hand, you can't turn away. it's fascinating. it's fascinating to hear someone talk in realtime who's been accused of these sorts of things. at the same time, there's another story here, and that is, that this wasn't typical football u. it would be horrific enough if this happened at typical football u. what gives this some elements of classic tragedy, is that it's brought down or threatens to bring down a good portion of a program that in most respects stood for the right things for the better part of a century. >> and a man and others who were all a part of that? >> yes. and how much they knew, and when they knew it, and what little, if anything, they did to stop it is something we can speculate about, but we don't yet know the full answer to. >> solid piece of reporting, awful topic. bob cost

bob costas interviewed the disgraced coach for rock center tonight. the full interview airs on that show at 10:00 p.m. we will have an exclusive preview next. stay with us. ke, keepeovhei "loan t iedhecht ♪ men.an ke t iedhecht >>> breaking news tonight on the penn state child sexual abuse case. nbc's "rock center" obtained an interview with jerry sandusky and his lawyer just a short time ago. we now have an excerpt of the interview that was conducted by bob costas. >> mr. sandusky, there's a 40-count indictment, the grand jury report contains specific detail. there are multiple accusers. multiple eyewitnesss to various aspects of the abuse. a reasonable person says where there's this much smoke, there must be plenty of fire. what do you say? >> i say that i am innocent of those charges. >> innocent? completely innocent and falsely accused in every aspect? >> well, i could say that, you know, i have done some of those things. i have horsed around with kids. i have showered after workouts. i have hugged them and i have touched their leg. without inte

bob costas interviewed the disgraced coach for rock center tonight. the full interview airs on that show at 10:00 p.m. we will have an exclusive preview next. stay with us. ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you ♪ [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. >>> breaking news tonight on the penn state child sexual abuse case. nbc's "rock center" obtained an interview with jerry sandusky and his lawyer just a short time ago. we now have an excerpt of the interview that was conducted by bob costas. >> mr. sandusky, there's a 40-count indictment, the grand jury report contains specific detail. there are multiple accusers. multiple eyewitnesss to various aspects of the abuse. a reasonable person says where there's this much smoke, there must be plenty of fire. what do you say? >> i say that i am innocent of those charges. >> innocent? completely innocent and falsely accused in every aspect? >> well, i could say

join meganow nbc's bob costas. thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> bob, what is the version of that shower scene that sandusky gives and how is it different from what we understand to be the mcqueary version? >> it is massively different. he says he and the young boy were horsing around, snapping towels. that the boy turned on all of the shower heads and was sliding around the shower floor, as if it was some kind of waterslide but that nothing even remotely resembling a rape, and that's what mcqueary says he saw. he saw a forcible rape, not horsing around, not inappropriate touching. in the grand jury report, he says he witnessed a rape. and sandusky flatly denies that and when asked what motive mcqueary would have to possibly fabricate such a horrific thing, his answer is you would have to ask him. >> and what are the things in this story that you heard tonight from sandusky that you think possibly do not line up with what we already think we know? >> most of it wouldn't line up

>>> on the broadcast tonight, sandusky speaks in an exclusive interview with bob costas. the man at the center of the penn state scandal breaks his silence and says he's innocent. but at the same time, badly damages his own defense. >>> a surprise raid, where it all began. they don't occupy wall street any more, after the nypd threw them outut with force. >>> tonight a judge has ruled on the protesters' rights. >>> the lipitor question. the hugely popular cholesterol medication is about to go generic. millions get to decide if cheaper is just as good. >>> she's 83 years old, saving homes and lives. why people call her when they need help. "nightly news" begins now. captions paid for by nbc-universal television >>> good evening. it was the moment he had chosen to break his silence. jerry sandusky, the former penn state defensive coach, at the center of these awful sexual abuse allegations, proclaimed his innocence to bob costas last night. along the way, he admitted to active anin his own life that my find repugnant. his words and his voice were just as difficult to turn a

bob costas with us in the studio. bob, what's the reaction been today? >> well, i don't think that jerry sandusky did himself much good last night. there's also a general reaction that, as you put it leading into this, on the one hand it's offputting. on the other hand you can't turn away. it's fascinating, it's fascinating to hear someone talk in realtime who's been accused of these sorts of things. at the same time, there's another story here, and that is, that this wasn't typical football u. it would be horrific enough if this happened at typical football u. what gives this some elements of classic tragedy, is that it's brought down or threatens to bring down a good portion of the program that for most respects stood for the right things for the better part of a century. >> and a man and others who were all a part of that? >> yes. and how much they knew and when they knew it, and what little if anything they did to stop it is something we can speculate about, but we don't yet know the full answer to. >> solid piece of reporting, awful topic. bob costa

what we just saw with bob costas and jerry sandusky? >> you can rest assured the prosecution is going to attempt to have it shown in court. sandusky's got a fifth amendment right and may try and keep it out. of course, nothing prevents him from testifying on his own behalf. chris, can i call your attention to something? because on the sexual attraction question that bob costas asked, do you notice the tick? do you notice the tell where sandusky, at least in my opinion, needed a moment to think about it, and, therefore, only time in the interview he repeated the question. if you were to ask me, if i were to ask you, if you have a sexual attraction to young boys, my hunch is you'd immediately say are you blanking me and you'd instantaneously respond. he had to think that over. he needed to repeat that question before he offered an explanation. devastating, as i said, at the outset. >> do you think that might be his potential defense? that he has this drive that he can't control? >> not based on what he just said, because that would be at

he's sitting right next to bob costas! (audience reacts) >> would you allow your own children to be alone with your client? >> absolutely. i... i believe in jerry's innocence. quite honestly, bob, that's why i'm involved in the case. >> jon: right, you'd leave your kids alone with jerry sandusky. are the kids you would leave alone with them any of the kids you had when you impregnate add teenaged client in 1996? (audience reacts) when you were at the time 49 years old? what kind of creepy guy club do you both belong to? (laughter) i'm not a lawyer here, but, again... (cheers and applause) if you're accused of sex with minors, forcible sex, maybe your criteria for finding a defense lawyer shouldn't be "also has issues with sexual boundaries." (laughter) sandusky, you're a defensive coordinator. you should have been able to coordinate a better defense. (laughter) and you should have done it 20 years ago. it's easy, you could have called the prevent defense. you know, or the prevent-me defense. when the ball snaps pull all yo

we'll have more on the scandal when bob costas joins us live on morning joe. you want to stick around for that. >>> now to some 2012 politics. days after texas governor rick perry infamous oops moment at the michigan presidential debate, republican rival herman cain had a similar brain freeze during an interview with the editorial board of the milwaukee journal sentinel newspaper. former godfather's pizza ceo got hung up when talking about libya. >> so you agree with president obama on libya or not? >> libya? president obama supported the uprising, correct? president obama called for the removal of gadhafi. make sure we're talking about the same thing before i say yes i agree or no i didn't agree. i do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reason. no, that's a different one. i got to go back. got all this stuff twirling around in my head. i would have done a better job of determining who the opposition is, and i'm sure that our intelligence people had some of that information. based upon who made up that opposition, okay, based upon who made u

what we just saw with bob costas and jerry sandusky? >> you can rest assured the prosecution is going to attempt to have it shown in court. sandusky's got a fifth amendment right and may try and keep it out. of course, nothing prevents him from testifying on his own behalf. chris, can i call your attention to something? because on the sexual attraction question that bob costas asked, do you know the tic? do you notice the tell, where sandusky, at least in my opinion, needed a moment to think about it, and therefore, only time in the interview he repeated the question. if you were to ask me, the if i were to ask you, do you have a sexual attraction to young boys, my hunch is, you'd immediately say, are you blanking me, and you'd instantaneously respond. he had to think that over. he needed to repeat that question before he offered an explanation. devastating, as i said, at the outset. >> do you think that might be his potential defense? that he has this drive that he can't control? >> not based on what he just said, because that would be

i feel horrible. >> jerry sandusky speaking to nbc's bob costas in an exclusive interview. we played much of the interview a few moments ago and asked our guests to watch it with us, as well. we are back now with attorney jeff herman who represents sex abuse victims and has been contacted by some of the alleged victims in this case and goldie taylor of thegrio.com, which is a division of nbc news. i want to go to goldie's last point of how could the lawyer for sandusky allow this to happen? i think we can all stipulate at this point, that jerry sandusky is represented by one of the worst lawyers that has ever handled one of these case. >> i was stunned to hear him talk the way he did n. the hundreds of cases i have handled on behalf of victims of sexual abuse never once have i seen their lawyer let them talk. never mind come on national tv and make the kind of statements he did. it reminds me of father from malta who was accused of sexually abusing congressman folly a couple of years ago. before he lawyered up, he went on the press and said he was horsing around or marmless

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i feel horrible. >> jerry sandusky speaking to nbc's bob costas in an exclusive interview. we played much of the interview a few moments ago and asked our guests to watch it with us, as well. we are back now with attorney jeff herman who represents sex abuse victims and has been contacted by some of the alleged victims in this case and goldie taylor of thegrio.com, which is a division of nbc news. i want to go to goldie's last point of how could the lawyer for sandusky allow this to happen? i think we can all stipulate at this point, that jerry sandusky is represented by one of the worst lawyers that hassen ever handled one of these case. >> i was stunned to hear him talk the way he did n. the hundreds of cases i have handled on behalf of victims of sexual abuse never once have i seen their lawyer let them talk. never mind come on national tv and make the kind of statements he did. it reminds me of father from malta who was accused of sexually abusing congressman folly a couple of years ago. before he lawyered up, he went on the press and said he was horsing around or marml

the reaction to jerry sandusky's interview with bob costas and defense team strategy to paint the alleged victims as liars. >>> plus it is herman cain's giant oops moment. >> i did not agree with the way he handled it for the following reason. no, that's -- that's different one. i got go back and see. got all this stuff twirling around in my head. >> herman cain brain freezing over a question about libya. can he salvage this pr disaster in a live news conference coming your way this hour? >>> plus, congresswoman gabrielle giffords, first tv interview since the shooting that altered her life forever. we speak with the former intern credited with saving her life in january. nice to have you with me today, i'm thomas roberts, with he get trite t new developments have arisen in the child sex abuse investigation at penn state university, the "new york times" saying ten more people have come forward to report similar assaults against them by former assistant football coach jerry sandusky. news of additional accusations comes a day after sandusky did a jaw-dropping interview with nbc's bob costa

>> huh-uh. >> bob costas here with us in the studio again tonight. you and i were saying earlier, you watch enough of this stuff you reset your brain to acceptable behavior. what has changed in this story in a big material way, louie free, former fbi director, is now going to be heading this investigation. he is relentless and thorough every inch a lawman, and this will change the world for a lot of people. >> from the beginning we all assumed we have not heard the last of it with the grand jury report. there has to be more. little by little and perhaps eventually in a torrent there will be more. not just accusations but we'll learn more about what university officials, including joe paterno, knew, when they knew it, and what they did or didn't do as against what they should have done. it's impossible to believe that the general outlines of jerry sandusky's behavior -- the worst of it will certainly be vigorously contested in court and perhaps they can undermine the credibility of some of the accusers, but the general outline of his behavior, even wh

bob costas joins us here in the studio. superbly conducted interview, couldn't be a more awful story, tougher material to listen to. few people outside of the sports world realized that this veteran defensive coordinator suddenly retires, as still a young man, 55, back in what, 1995? >> 1999. he was told you will never be the head coach at penn state. not that i, joe paterno, plan to hang on but that you will not be the head coach. >> did he not have job offers? >> he was a very highly regarded guy, associated with one of the most prestigious programs. when job openings occurred at major football schools you would think he's be among the prime candidates. mysteriously, although he did have an interview at virginia in 2000, mysteriously he removes himself from consideration. could that be completely innocent? yes. are there going to be people that will ask the following questions, the answers to which i do not know. did penn state, if not paterno, have a general sense this guy's behavior was troubling and they wanted to ease

when jerry sandusky told bob costas last night, he's innocent, that he's not guilty of any sex crimes that if he's guilty of anything, it's enjoying being around young people and horsing around in the shower with them, what do the families of the victims tell you about what they heard last night? >> well, you know, it's been the same theme since the beginning. what they really want, they feel like they've been through enough. some have been keeping this bottled up for 10 years, 15 years, 3 years, they want this guy to plead guilty to prevent their sons from having to take the stand and testify. they don't want to look backwards anymore. they want to look forward. they want some hope. they don't want to go through this anymore. they don't want the scandal, the circus surrounding it. they want him to admit that he did something wrong and plead guilty, and it doesn't look like they're going to get that. >> wendy murphy, listen to more, in some ways it's important to play this, so people can hear coach sandusky, in other ways it turns my stomach every time we do. listen to coach sandusky

>> this was an exclusive phone interview with bob costas on nbc. bob costas goes through the 23- page indictment where it spells out jerry sandusky performing sex acts with different boys, including raping them. >> innocent of those charges. >> that's bob costas interviewing jerry sandusky in that interview. it is the first time the former penn state defensive coordinator has spoken since the scandal made headlines. he flatly denies any sexual contact with boys from his charity organization, the second mile. although he admits to horsing around, wrestling and touching their legs. these alleged acts happened for a span of 15 years with eight different boys. according to court papers, they happened at his home, hotel rooms and showers on the university's campus. jerry sandusky's attorney, joseph says he believes in his client's innocence and is out to prove it. >> we expect we're going to have a number of kids, now how many of those so-called eight kids, we're not sure. but we anticipate we're going to have at least several of those kids come forward

awdz coming out and doing an interview with bob costas. why? >> i don't know. is he represented by someone? >> yes, he does have an attorney. >> an attorney who apparently impregnated like a teenaged girl years ago. >> good representation. >> i don't know why his attorney would allow him to talk to bob costas y ill be so far in hiding if i were jerry sandusky until my court date, i wouldn't talk to anyone. >> not only did he talk but -- while he said he is not a pedophile, he admitted that he showered with boys. add mid to horseplay in the showers. he just said it was of a nonsexual nature. it seems to me like that is not what you want to get out to the media before you go to security. >> when i spoked weed in college, i didn't inhale either. i didn't do any of that. >> the bottom line is every idiot knows even that, you can't shower with boys. even if that is all you did, you can't shower with boys. everybody knows that. you learn that, when i was in 20 years ago getting a master's in education. you can't shower with kids. >> once your own kids reach a certain

the former penn state coach talked to bob costas by phone last night. he had been indicted on 40 counts of molestation and abuse. he told costas he's innocent but >> i can say i have done some of those things. i have hugged them and i have touched their legs. without intent of sexual contact. >> we will have more from the interview later in the newscast, including what one expert has to say about whether sandusky is lying. if you would like to see the nbcbayarea.com and tune in to hear from sandusky's lawyer, including a stunning revelation about one of the alleged victims. >>> it is 5:03. the woman accused of ripping off alex tribec will attend a court hearing today. she, of course, is accused of robbing tribeck and his wife while they were still sleeping in their san francisco hotel room back in july. the lawyer says she was at the hotel working as a prostitute and not as a thief. she could spend life in prison. prosecutors say they do not plan to push for that. >>> it is 5:04 right now. from ogawa plaza to sproul plaza. the occupy battleground has mo

maybe that's the strategy in having him make the phone call to bob costas. that was certainly damning, i don't think we'll see any other interviews from him. and the other principal players in this scandal, mcqueary and joe paterno, have certainly been advised by their lawyers ton give interviews. >> right. now you have a story about a cover-up which n which the key players don't want to talk. that's always challenging for the media. but as we saw with those lawyers, i mean, the problem for the media, it seems to me, is that a number of alleged victims are surfacing, but understandably and appropriately, they don't want to go public with their names. so we are left to deal with allegations from anonymous sources, perhaps as channelled through their attorneys. >> yeah. i would say -- distinction i would dow is not television versus print. the distinction i would draw in terms of coverage is outside national media versus some of the people on the ground and have sources inside this very insular, connected community. you're going to talk to a reporter from "the

listen to sandusky in his own words with bob costas. >> just the fact that i shouldn't have showered with those kids. and, so -- >> that's it. >> yeah, i mean, that's what hits me the most. >> are you a pedophile? >> no. >> are you sexually attracted to young boys, underage boys? >> am i sexually attracted to underage boys? >> sexually attracted. i enjoy young people. i love to be around them. but, no, i'm not sexually attracted to young boys. >> cnn's jason carroll is at penn state. so, jason, what kind of reaction is this interview getting this morning? >> not a good one. in terms of what students are saying this morning and a few last night that this interview actually made sandusky look worse. it's not like some of these students after the allegations had a high opinion of him after the allegations came out. but, clearly, from what we're hearing at least so far, kyra, after that interview, those who thought he was guilty before, their minds have not been changed and some others who were sort of dipping in and out of the story who happened to catch the interviews now say whatever

he'll talk with bob costas tonight on "rock center" 10:00/9:00 central. >>> and an update on the occupy protests tonight. rite police in oakland evicted protesters, tore down their tent camp this morning. 33 people arrested. no major injuries reported, thankfully. and in portland, oregon, yesterday a thousand protesters confronted police chanting "the whole world is watching." standoff lasted several hours. by nightfall they were evicted from two downtown parks, 50 arrests there. >>> still ahead for us tonight, a breakthrough that could help millions who suffer from a deadly health problem. >>> and later, signs of hope one house at a time in a place where a lot of the adults failed, someone else stepped up and made a difference. >>> there is health news tonight and it's about health failure. about a half million americans die from it every year. today in results presented at an american heart association meeting, an early experiment with stem cells showed a lot of promise. we get more on this tonight from our chief science correspondent robert bazell. >> good morning. >> reporter: mike

. >>> alleged child rapist jerry sandusky claimed his innocence in an interview with bob costas. tonight we will play a large portion of that interview and get reaction from an advocate of victims of child sexual abuse. >>> was newt gingrich a lobbyist for freddie mac? the former house speaker says no. former freddie mac officials say oh, yes, he was. congressman jim mcdermott will weigh in on that. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. stay with us p . you can't pass mom's inspection with lots of pieces left behind. that's why there's charmin ultra strong. its diamondweave texture is soft and more durable so it holds up better. fewer pieces left behind. charmin ultra strong. >>> coming up on "the ed show," victims groups are responding to jerry sandusky's interview. we'll play you the tape. everybody's talking about it. get reaction. >>> and newt gingrich makes it a four-way tie in iowa. dave weigel is here on the republican field in disarray. >>> and congressman jim mcdermott is going to tell us why his old colleague, speaker of the house gingrich-s pretty much a joke. lots m

. >>> jerry sandusky claimed his innocence in an interview with bob costas. tonight we'll play a large portion of the interview and get reaction from an advocate of victims of child sexual abuse. >>> was newt gingrich a lobbyist for freddie mac? the former house speaker says, no. former freddie mac officials say, oh, yes, he was. john mcdermott will weigh in on that. ♪ ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes, and lexus for audi than ever before. take advantage of exceptional values during the season of audi event. >>> coming up on "the ed show," victims groups are rezospondingo jerry sandusky's interview. we'll play you the tape. >>> newt gingrich makes it a four-way tie in iowa. dave weigel is here on the republican field in disarray. >>> congressman jim mcdermott is going to tell us why his old colleague, speaker of the house gingrich is a joke. lots more to come. ♪ you ooohoohooh... ♪ you are my heart... [ male announcer ] vera wang love. ♪ oh yes you