owen, mr. owen -- >> -- the day after the murder, he is seen by a neighbor frantically cleaning out his pickup truck, tearing out the seats, tearing out the carpets, scrubbing it down to the floorboards. a lot of suspicious behavior there. and all i'm saying is, with questions like this, why wouldn't you want to do the dna testing to be sure? that's why the texas legislature created this post-conviction dna testing law, and that's why we feel some confidence that the courts are going to order this testing before allowing mr. skinner to be executed. >> mr. owen, if you can keep your answers brief, because when you're talking, you can't hear my trying to jump in here. you think you have a pretty good chance of getting the testing done this time? >> we're hopeful, very hopeful. >> is rick perry expected to intervene and is this skinner's last hope here if rick perry doesn't intervene? >> i think that the governor has had a practice in the past of not intervening until the courts have all had an op