. >> and richard herman, law professor joining us from las vegas. good to see you as well. >> hi, fred. >> gentlemen, we're in the final stretch tuesday's sentencing, he could get probation or a maximum, but we also know the situation with overcrowding in many california prisons, avery. so what are the chances of his sentencing, in your view? >> right in between what you just said. it will never be probation. he's looking at the max, four years. however, the general assembly, the state legislature in california changed that. they've come up with something called realignment, which means four years equals two years and discretion is given to the local sheriff. that means it goes to the los angeles sheriff's department, so frankly the bottom line is you're probably some time less than two years, maybe not even one year. >> how do you see it, richard? >> fred, i think he's going to get house arrest, home confinement with a bracelet. that's what's going to happen. >> why do you think that? >> he's absolutely eligible for that. >> because the law in cali

richard, thank you very much. richard herman out of vegas. we'll be following this breaking news story, protesters, demonstrations across the country, largely peaceful. some situations that have turned ugly, but for the most part, we are looking at hundreds and hundreds of people, perhaps tens of thousands, though, however, gathering this afternoon to block the brooklyn bridge. we're going to keep a close eye on all of this. we'll take a really quick break. >> we want positive publicity. we want people to -- we want people to know the truth. we really want people to come out. we want the middle class, basically, to be back where the middle class was. we want big corporations and rich to be accountable. help so that the poor can make it in life. you can't change the way banking works. just accept it, man. free ? doesn't close at five ? try nature. it's a bank. what do you want, a hug ? just accept it. hidden fees, fine print, or they'll stick it to you some other way. stay with the herd, son. accept it. just accept it. accept it. just accept i

let's bring in our legal guys, avery freeman in cleveland, good to see you and richard herman, a new york criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from vegas. >> hi, fred. >> avery, we're talking about the ncaa also investigating. how might that investigation either be coupled with or conflict with the federal investigation and local investigations under way involving penn state? >> yeah, it won't conflict. these are all concurrent investigations. i have to tell you fredericka, i'm thrilled that the ncaa is coming in like flor ga and ohio state and now penn state. not only will they look on at what's going on with child abuse but they are actually going to look at the issues of control. who's calling the shots? this is explosive because football at schools like penn state rule the university. we're going to see some changes. they will be zeroing in not only on this but the entire structure. that's a wonderful thing that should be happening. >> ncaa. richard. how do you see this as a compliment to these investigations? >> well, fred, it's like detective alonzo harris sai

criminal defense attorney richard herman is joining us from vegas. richard, first of all, explain to us why is it that sandusky's attorney would even allow him to make statements explaining himself and defending himself? >> suzanne, the case is absolutely out of control against sandusky now. i mean, the world has adjudicated him guilty, and this is actually just damage control to try to stop the momentum. there's reports there's ten more alleged incidents with other people. so the attorneys had to put a stand up and say, listen, there is another version here. there's another series of events. there's another story here. there's another side to the coin. they did it for damage control. >> so the idea is that he's trying to have this tried in the court of public opinion now? >> well, the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. anybody you talk to, any talk show, any news broadcast, everybody has convicted him based on the grand jury testimony. those 23 pages, which are devastating. but suzanne, look, we need to step back for a moment. he

richard herman, we'll be following this closely. >>> heads up. a huge space rock is coming this way. how close is it going to get? we'll let you know in a minute. . ♪ grandma got run over by a reindeer ♪ really? ken? ♪ walking home from our house christmas eve ♪ ♪ you can say... i had the right of way. oh, man. i... turning off the music. sorry, nanna. [ male announcer ] get low prices every day on the latest smart phones, starting at 97 cents. save money. live better. walmart. a ufo crashes near roswell, new mexico. the government hides the aliens in area 51. after decades, the white house is now setting the record straight. statement says no ets have ever contacted the human race, nor is there credible evidence that aliens crashed on earth and were hidden. the statement came in response to an online petition. so, grab your telescope, though. an astroid is buzzing earth today. our own jacqui jeras has her eye on all this, on how big it actually is. what do we think, jacqui? >> it's huge. it's so interesting. nobody needs to worry about

i want to bring in really quickly criminal defense attorney richard herman. he's out of las vegas. we've been watching this very closely here. what do you suspect the judge is going to do here? do you think he'll slap him with four years in prison, or do you think he'll do community service with probation? >> you can take it to the bank, suzanne, he's getting four years. this is the man who killed michael jackson. this is a judge who has to run for elective office. it's absolutely going to be four years maximum state prison, reduced immediately to two years county prison, and because this is being a non-violent felony under the statute and because dr. conrad murray has no prior criminal history, he is entitled to immediate home confinement due to prison overcrowding. that's where i see it. maybe a month in county prison and then sent home for home confinement. >> do you think that that's the likely outcome, that's the way he's just going to be confined to home because of the california laws now? >> we saw what happened with lindsay lohan and paris hilton. they get sentenced and all

earlier, i asked our legal analyst avery freeman and richard herman to weigh in. >> i think not only is the campus understruck with what is going on, but there needs to be a re-examination of what is called the mandatory reporter law. that means anyone, a social worker, teacher, lawyer, doctor, when you see abuse, you have to report it. and the arguments being advanced in pennsylvania is that as long as you tell the boss, you're covered. that's where, i think if we zero in on the issue, where the law is, if victims are going to be protected, you have to go to law enforcement and that didn't happen here. penn state university police reported they had knowledge of this. the district attorney's office had -- where is the district attorney who was around back then? where is he? he's nowhere to be found. t.j., this is the tip of the iceberg here. how does mcqueary, a 20-year-old grad student look in the showers of a facility and see a grown man raping a 10-year-old child and not instinctively grab a baseball bat and not protect this child? how does he live with himself? >> or report it to

avery friedman in cleveland and richard herman in our miami bureau today. oh, my goodness. >> what did you say uh-uh? >> that's kind of rhythmic. ♪ baby baby >> who knew the song that brought him this kind of fame would now be the subject matter of a potential paternity suit. so richard, you first. she was 19 at the time allegedly. he was allegedly 16 at the time. she says, and her camp, her name is mariah yeater, by the way. her camp wants a paternity test. apparently l.a. is investigating whether -- if there was an encounter, whether there will be statutory rape. >> it's definitely statute ore rape, he was 16, the age is 18. she's admitted to statute ore rape. do they prosecute those? usually they do not prosecute those in california. it's a simple cotton q-tip swab on the inside of the map. there's his dna. unfortunately he's probably going to end up giving a dna sample. >> should you be forced to do so? they are already vehemently denying the claim saying the teen star never is alone back stage at a concert. he tweeted he's going to ignore the rumors

avery friedman and richard herman. not a hypothetical, it did happen. antoine jones in d.c. is saying, something is wrong here, what happened to the fourth amendment which protects me against unreasonable search and seizure. >> yeah, fredricka, i love this case. it really goes to the essence of the bill of rights against the expectation of privacy. the bottom line is can the police put a beeper in your car and monitor you? they did in this one. they had a warrant but the warrant expired. the amazing thing about the arguments this week, the majority of the court, people like alito and scalia are using words like orwellian, 1984, trespass. my prediction, what happened in d.c. with antoine, violation look for 7-2, 8-1 decision throwing the case out and a victory for the fourth amendment. >> richard, it's not an issue of we just forgot it was there. first a warrant on the vehicle and we just forgot. right? >> they don't forget, fred. they know full well what the deal is. it's a little overreaching. they are going to get spanked on this one. i have to agree with them. the judges

let's check back in with our legal guy, avery freeman in cleveland and richard herman in our miami bureau today. oh, my, goodness. you guys -- you guys, how did this come to be? >> how does -- >> no. >> that was kind of rhythmic, i figure. ♪ baby baby >> go ahead and do it. >> who knew the song that brought him this kind of fame would now be the subject matter of a potential paternity suit. richard, you first. 6 she was 19 at the time, allegedly, the time, and he was allegedly 16 at the time. so she says -- her camp, her name mariah yeater, by the way, her camp wants a paternity test but apparently l.a. is investigating whether there would be -- if this encounter would lead to statutory rape cases. which do you want to tackle first? >> it's definitely statutory rape, he was 16, the age of consent 18 in california. she admitted to a crime of statutory rape. do they prosecute those? usually they do not prosecute those in california, fred. it's not going to be prosecuted. and it's a simple cotton q-tip swab of the inside of the mouth. there's his dna. unfortunately, he's probably going to

richard herman, criminal defense attorney and law professor as well in d.c. this weekend. gentlemen, thank you both. avery, let me start with you. a lot people ask the question, sandusky is out on bail. should he be out on bail given the charges, given the number of victims, given the crime? >> well, that's a very fair question, t.j. i think if i were on the bench i don't know that i would permit bail, but it's -- you know, again, the discretion of the trial judge to make these decisions. the issue is much broader than that, as i see it. i think not only is the campus thunder-struck with what's gone on, but there needs to be a re-examination of what's called the mandatory reporter law. that is, anyone, social worker, too mucher, lawyer, doctor, when you see abuse, you have to report it. and the argument's being advanced in pennsylvania is that, as long as you tell the boss, you're covered, and that's where i think if we zero in on issue, where the problem is. if victims are going to be protected you've got to go to law enforcement and that didn't happen here. >> richard, d

. >> i want to talk to richard herman in las vegas. if the new allegations evolve into prosecutors bringing additional charges based on what they are finding, what does that mean for jerry sandusky? he's out on bond. what would be the next step? >> the next step will be a super ceding indictment or a new indictment against him. in that case, he's going to be rearrested. he's going to be dragged into court again. there will be a bail application. all the judges in that county have recused themselves. they have stepped away from the case due to their contacts either with penn state or the charity. so a new slew of judges will handle it. and they watch tv. they read the newspapers. when it comes time to set bail next time around, i think it's going to be onerous and i think he's going to be incarcerated. >> penn state has brought in lou freeh. one has to wonder who you this is going to compliment or potentially conflict with the ongoing investigations. >> i think -- look. they are trying to help their image. by reaching out to freeh who i

jewell in the olympic park bombing and now herman cain. i wonder, though, wolf, i mean, i understand how emotions have got to be raw in the campaign, but he said repeatedly he had never met sharon bialek before, there's a picture, i think it came out yesterday, the two of them earlier or last year together with arms around each other. i think you know, they had ten days before this story came out originally to get their ducks in a row and it seems like they're rushing trying to get ahead of the story. they see the poll trends going down but they might should have sat down a little bit longer and thought about this and not have

joining us now, criminal defense attorney richard herman. first of all, while we wait for the doctor's decision, what are the pros and cons of him taking the stand in his own defense? >> i think at this point suzanne, i think it's 50/50 whether he's going to testify. in this particular case, his worst case scenario, if everything goes wrong for con rads murray, maybe two weeks in jail and then house arrest for a period of time. that's his worst case scenario. i think if the defense feels that dr. white got real hurt on the cross-examination and they need dr. murray, i think he just very well may get up there and testify. if he does, he's going to face a blistering cross-examination, but he's an amiable person and he's going to convince the jurorses he meant no harm to michael jackson and he's a team player. >> when do we expect the trial to wrap up? >> i expect -- look, it's either -- if dr. white steps down today, i believe that the prosecution will call dr. shaffer as a rebuttal witness and then maybe one more person and i think it's over.

this is not the person can you hold up as well see, i'm not a racist, i love herman cain. >> richard, how long can cain keep this going? >> oh, he can sustain his misery for very long time if he carries on like this. the interesting thing here is that people talk about vetting, you know,ed idea that candidates need to be vetted. the vetting in this question in this whole process is not actually whether you have the skeletons in the closet or that employee you harassed out of a job. the vetting is how do you deal with the pressure? you know, are you up to it? are you -- can you deal with a fluid situation where your advisors are over here and the press is over there? because that in some way simulates the ridiculousness of being in the oval office. and clearly this man failed. he failed badly. as you pointed out, he had 12 days to prepare it. he hasn't got his story straight. he failed vetting not only because he has this dirty secret he's trying to hide, but actually because he's not up to doing anything but the marketing slogan of 9-9-9. >> you said that there is going to be a report

richard wolffe. thanks for joining me tonight, richard. >> my pleasure, lawrence. >> richard, it feels to me like huntsman has this called just about right. herman cain can deal with this any way he wants. he's not going to be a nominee, not going to be a vice presidential selection. he has no future beyond this candidacy as long as it lasts. >> yeah, i was waiting for the kurt cobain reference. there's a bigger issue there for all of these candidates. herman cain is not going to get out. he made that very clear. he's going to be on stage with these people. where has the president lost significant support over the last years? >> suburban women voters, newly single suburban women voters. if you're the marketing guy, you'd say it's the kind of accuser who's gone up against herman cain so far. when you hear mitt romney say those things, he's not trying to pile on to get the votes that cain has got but saying to the women voters who are going to be key for the general election, we are okay, we're accepta

>> they were, richard. there's a new mcclachy marist poll and showed mitt romney in the national league and herman cain dipping just a little bit. newt gingrich on the rise. politico george washington university also had a poll. overall had cain in the national lead but what was interesting that cain's percentages were going down as the poll was in the field. by that last poll date his numbers had gone down. conversely, mitt romney's numbers have con up by the end of the that poll. the consistent trend lines are that romney, nut gingrich up, herman cain going down a little bit. but, boy, this has been a very volatile field and i think we're going to have a of twists and turns with 50 days before the iowa caucuses. >> what surprised you in the polls? i was watching story lines here. gingrich rise and what he can do with it right now. >> right, there is a big question on what gingrich can do. does he have the infrastructure. does he have the money to capitalize on getting a second look from voters. richard, w

and what about herman cain's twitter followers? richard lui breaks it down this election season. that's coming up at 10:30. >>> time now to put your political smarts to the test. unemployment is 9% and no incumbent president has won re-election with such a high figure thins 1940. so what's the highest unemployment rate that a modern president has ever had to win the jous the answer in a few minutes. ♪ ♪ mama said there'd be days like this ♪ ♪ "there'll be days like this," mama said ♪ [ male announcer ] the toughest job on the planet just got a little easier. with one touch technology and even an air scrubber. the nissan quest. innovation for family. innovation for all. get up to $3,050 total savings on the 2011 nissan quest. ♪ >>> and we're back now with the answer to our trivia question. what's the highest unemployment rate a modern president has ever come to win back the white house? the answer -- 7.2%. in 1984, ronald reagan won re-election in a landslide. 525 electoral votes to walter mondale's 13. it worth noting unemployment was falling at the time of rreagana r

we'll talk to afl-cio president richard trumpka. >>> battle of the sexes. herman cain will hold a press conference today to battle the latest harassment claims after joking about it last night. >> at least it was not one of the many that have the first name anonymous. >> and close encounter of the nonpolitical kind. an asteroid as big as an aircraft carrier is about to make its closest flyby over earth in 200 years. >>> good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. welcome to super tuesday. 12 months to go and counting. msnbc contributor and managing editor of post politics.com, chris cillizza joins us with the daily fix, a year out. we've looked at the polls. what we're seeing now is that republican voters have mitt romney and herman cain basically tied with newt gingrich a close third and rick perry is the news falling way behind. >> let me first say i'm very excited because i love election days. and so we have an election day. we're 12 months away. we're actually about 60 days away from the iowa caucuses on january 3rd. to your point, this race is st

richard trumpka. >>> battle of the sexes. herman cain will hold a press conference today to battle the latest harassment claims after joking about it last night. >> at least it was not one of the many that have the first name anonymous. >> and close encounter of the nonpolitical kind. an asteroid as big as an aircraft carrier is about to make its closest flyby over earth in 200 years. >>> good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. welcome to super tuesday. 12 months to go and counting. msnbc contributor and managing editor of post politics.com, chris cillizza joins us with the daily fix, a year out. we've looked at the polls. what we're seeing now is that republican voters have mitt romney and herman cain basically tied with newt gingrich a close third and rick perry is the news falling way behind. >> let me first say i'm very excited because i love election days. and so we have an election day. we're 12 months away. we're actually about 60 days away from the iowa caucuses on january 3rd. to your point, this race is st

. >> but, richard, the polls are strong. granted, the polls were before we have a face and a story as we did today. but he remained viable. there was some dropping in his favorability. but he stayed in the top tier tied or still ahead of mitt romney, positives of 52%, down a little, but negatives, 19%. how does he now hold that with this acquisition and the lawyer for one of the anonymous accusers, saying this lady's claim today was very similar in nature to the incident that occurred between his client and mr. cain, according to "the new york times." >> well, look, he could tough it out for a while, but the clock is ticking on him. whether it's now or later, it will soon be time to stick a fork in the pizza guy. you can only ride this out for so long. it says a lot about the rest of the field. of course it says a lot about how much the base really does not want to vote for anything like mitt romney. so that gives him a certain base. he can maybe get through an early state like iowa, maybe south carolina. but the bigger stat

louisiana pediatrician, richard zukerman is the second person to say, herman cain not telling the truth about the harassment. he said he and bialik dated in 1997 and she told him cain acted improperly and touched her when she asked him for career advice. herman cain's seldom seen wife is defending her husband. bialik's former boyfriend also comes forward today, to relay his version of what he was told 14 years ago. >> when she returned, she was upset she said something had happened, and that mr. cain had touched her in an inappropriate manner. >> to hear such graphic allegations, and know that that would have been something that was totally disrespectful of her as a woman, and i know that is not the person he is. >> well, there was both good and bad news for herman cain elsewhere the latest wall street journal poll says he has lost his position at the republican front run tore mitt romney and elsewhere the georgetown attorney setting up a joint news conference of all four cain accusers now says that will be on hold because all four women have not agreed to participate in that news confe

. >> thank you richard, thank you, joe williams. >>> up next, we've seen herman cain get tongue-tied before but see how he mangled the name of the moderator in last night's debate. that's next in the sideshow. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. olay total effects. with 7 age defying effects in just one, easy to use cream. i've swapped to all-in-one total effects. why don't you swap too? >>> back to "hardball." now for "the side show." first up, tongue-tied. that's just what happened to republican candidate herman cain at one point during last night's cnn debate. cain got so wrapped up in responding to a question on airport security, that he mistakenly gave a new nickname to moderator wolf blitzer. let's see how that unfolded. >> no, blitz, that's oversimplifying it. i happen to believe that if -- if you allow our intelligence agencies to do their job, they can come up with an approach -- i'm sorry, blitz, i meant wolf, okay. blitz, wolf. since we're on a blitz debate. i apologize. wolf? >> thank you, cain. >> at least wolf blitzer managed to sneak in a zinger of his own at th

. >> thank you richard, thank you, joe williams. >>> up next, we've seen herman cain get tongue-tied before but see how he mangled the name of the moderator in last night's debate. that's next in the sideshow. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. your core competency is...competency. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm getting an upgrade. [ male announcer ] as you wish, business pro. as you wish. go national. go like a pro. now through january earn a free day with every two rentals. find out more at nationalcar.com. be worth updating? what are the to-do's we'll check off and the prices we'll brag about? there are plenty of reasons to resist the snooze button this friday morning. and whether we're online or in the aisles at 5:00 a.m. those reasons can be standing in our kitchens and laundry rooms for years to come. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. update your laundry sta

. >> thank you richard, thank you, joe williams. >>> up next, we've seen herman cain get tongue-tied before but see how he mangled the name of the moderator in last night's debate. that's next in the sideshow. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ [ man #1 ] i was fascinated by balsa wood airplanes since i was a kid. [ man #2 ] i always wondered how did an airplane get in the air. at ge aviation, we build jet engines. we lift people up off the ground to 35 thousand feet. these engines are built by hand with very precise assembly techniques. [ man #3 ] it's gonna fly people around the world. safely and better than it's ever done before. it would be a real tre