they are forced to join the union, forced to pay mon tote union and the unions spend the monoa political party they don't agree with -- that's not freedom. that's not liberty. that's not pro-choice. why wouldn't you support the right of people to choose? >> that's an out-of-context descringz of the problem. the problem is without unions, there is no counterforce to big business-- >>> it's legalized theft -- >> give me a chance. there is no counter force to big business to people who say, let's cut the salaries and outsource your job, everybody's only about profit and it is not about making sure that employers-- >>> you want the government -- [overlapping dialogue] >> it's called forced association. our founders would be in shock understanding that to get a particular job, you had to join an association that you may fundamentally disagree with, as the cost of employment. it is forced association. it is not protected by the first amendment. it is forced association. the right-to-work laws don't eliminate the unions-- >>> that's right -- let me bring up one point. a lot of good unions in de

i'm worried that unions go too far. or interpret an elect, they did help bring president obama over the finish line, that qualifies them now to just, pull out all of the stops. >> they are doing why -- giveying people an example of why they don't want to be in a union, they are using union dues to pay for the political causes that not everyone agrees with, this is not about the governors of the states attacking the union, this is about the union attacking itself, not giving the people a choice to be in it or not. neil: a lot were annoyed. many say i like president obama, but you know cool it. >> i really disagree. if you look at what happened in 2012 elect, we had a very clear choice between an economy that was tilted to the rich, and let the benefits trickle down. if you would or under president obama leadership to build from middle class out. and president obama won -- >> i'm giving your forces credit for delivering the vote, they got out the vote, and turned out to are far more passionate about it than republicans, t

the union actually has to by law defend that employee even if that employee is not paying union dues the union is compelled to do the union can't go shape for wages that are separate and promotions another thing i felt as though there is a free riders are getting all those benefits of unionization i mean whether they are not free riders or is this is something that happens in any society with any any system it happens and capital conservatives always protest against you know that's their that's your argument is it well ministers that take away someone's will and does this work for less than that studies show back and forth whether or not people make more make less thousand eight hundred dollars a year on average in rich work for less states people make less than they do and there are definitely studies that say otherwise and also the amount of money that's going to come in the state was supposed to jobs at a flea in indiana well balanced out people actually have jobs but right to work for less these guys want to right to not have to pay around nine hundred dollars a year and union du

the union actually has to by law defend that employee even if that employee is not paying union dues the union is compelled to do but a union can negotiate for wages that are separate from that is and promotions another film i felt as though there is a free riders are getting all those benefits of unionization i mean other writers are not free riders as this is something that happens in any society with any any system it happens in capital conservatives always protest against you know that's there that's your argument as well ministers that take away someone's will and does this work for less than that studies show back and forth whether or not people make more make last thousand eight hundred dollars a year on average in rich work for less states people make less than they do and there are definitely studies to say otherwise and also the amount of money that's going to come in the state was supposed to jobs at a flea in indiana well balanced out people actually have jobs but the right to work for less these guys want to write to not have to pay around nine hundred dollars a year and

when people join the european union where they will joining a federal union if you because you know what a lot of people will say is that they lost more and more of their freedoms to make decisions about their economies civil society sick cetera. well i totally disagree to that i mean of course the european union has to be based on subsidy or it's a principle which means that the decisions are made close as possible to the citizens on the other hand you know is that the case is that the case song truth is that the case let me finish all right go ahead yeah yeah of course about dontcha think that . in a case that a federal union existed with a federal strong budget that the sovereignty of the european citizens overall would be better than we have now in that crisis we are all victims at the moment because we do not have a fully fledged prescription my clearly question is did people join you create something like the united states yeah i mean they are going to they join it to create a united states of europe that it has to be discussed i'm just saying yes there is no alternative to th

. >> i will confront the union >> i will confront the union boss is when we [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and stl pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, pota with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. john: look to send their kids to private schools? nancy pelosi, hillary clinton, al gore. >> the people who make rules already have a choice. the politicns and i used to be, the politicians have a choice. john: they all sent their kids to private schools and oppose school choice for regular people. >> thank you for taking my question president obama upper could you think your

i'm a union man and i know charlie is very fond of unions. we love unions, but we want people to have the right to choose whether or not they belong to a union. a clothes shop where they have to have the union and i don't think that's freedom, if you want to join the union by all means, but to make it mandatory, that seems a bit harsh. >> neil: but the unions are spinning it the other way in michigan, charles, what do you make of that? >> and ben makes the great point. the unions feel like their back has been against the walls and have for a number of years. in michigan, this is the way we can be competitive. listen, everyone talks about the great comeback in detroit in the auto sector, that's a mirage. michigan's in trouble, detroit is in trouble and this is how they compete on the national scale, ultimately, a global scale. >> neil: dagen? >> very significant that this is happening and by the way, this is just the right to not have to pay union dues if you don't want to belong to a union first and foremost. >> neil: and you got that. >> ver

you would not know it watching the boisterous union protests, but unions are left intact by this new law. as is, the right to collective bargaining. the big victory for worker rights today, the elimination of the power of both public and private unions to demand and a worse dues from workers and the end of union power to force workers to pay what have been mandatory dues. michigan becomes the 24th state to enact right to work laws after legislation passed the state house of representatives and was sent on to governor rick snyder for his signature. protesters of this new law number some 10,000 at today's demonstrations. most league made up of uaw union of the workers, machinists, teachers, sometimes angry crowds that seem to be taking cues from their democratic leaders. one group described by those on the ground as a mob chanting and go home while tearing down a conservative activist group tent. a member of that mob scene right here. this as protesters are heard in the background threatening the police with violence. here he is trying to plead with pro union protesters to be less phys

when people join the european union where they will joining a federal union ok because you know what a lot of people will say is that they lost more and more of their freedoms to make decisions about their economies civil society sick cetera. well i totally disagree to that i mean of course the european union has to be based on subsidy or it's a principle which means that the decisions are made close as possible to the citizens on the other hand you know is that a case is that the case song truth is that the case let me finish all right go ahead yeah yeah of course about dontcha think that. in a case that a federal union existed with a federal strong budget that the sovereignty of the european citizens overall would be better than we have it now in that crisis we are all victims at the moment because we do not have a fully fledged clear my question is that people join to create something like the united states yeah i mean they point to they joined it to create a united states of europe that has to be discussed i'm not saying yes there is no alternative to that and if they don't want

>> unions can't stop the big mac. and mcdonald's, an extraordinary company. >> brenda: jonas bull or bear. >> bear. >> brenda: gary b, your prediction? >> holiday season has arted. for some son and i think the stock is back to $300 by valentine's day. >> brenda: and rry, bull or bear? >> bear, not enough for my taste. >> brenda: larry, your prediction? >> financial d-day sends

in a good union maybe 60%, 70% of the workers will voluntarily give dues to the union. that's in a union shop where they're very active. that's in most right-to-work states. so i think what you're going to see in michigan as you look at the uaw it has 150,000 members in michigan. i think they're going to lose about 50,000 members. i mean my best-case scenario, what that translates to is a loss of $30 to $40 million a year in dus revenue. it hurts the ability of the uaw to do things and is losing $30 to $40 million they'll be spending tens of millions to refill this later. >> eliot: one of the things that mystified me about the bill signed into law today why are cops and firefighters excluded. why is this good for workers? did he carve out the two unions that are friendlier to the republican party than any other? >> yeah, i mean cops and firefighters unions tend to be friendlier to the republican party. the police union i endorsed bush several times. cops and firefighters tend to be friendlier to republicans although many of them are solid democrats as well. so i think t

one looked at the union government, the structure of the states and the federal government in the union in the state's and the federal the limit in the confederacy and says the confederacy was the state. they succeeded on state rights and then they had to build and proceeded to because they had to build this enormous state apparatus. they conscripted within a year. think about that as a statement of state power. they conscripted within a year and they passed the taxes within basically a year, and they had agents of the federal government all over the south literally taking food out of people's barnes. it was the only way that they could feed the army. so, fay and pressed which was an enormous fight, that is the fascinating part of the story is these huge slaveholders go to war to protect and then they find out the new government is there to protect them in the war but it turns out the federal government wants to and needs to use them to win the war. it is this the enormous cost of between the slave holders and the government and they also read equals and the government that says congres

join unions. what we want to do is now is to encourage that. >> you want to bring jobs to michigan, you want to bring business to michigan, but the thing is, you know, some businesses won't hire or even work with some of the unions because in these times they simply cannot afford it. and proponents of right to work, they say like bobby say this attracts economic development. do you disagree with that? >> that's absolutely untrue. what happened right now is michigan is on its way back. we have very low unemployment going down here. we're thriving. the auto industry is back. the state is coming back because of what barack obama did. this state turned the corner now. we're creating good jobs here with good wages. without right to work. this is basically a step backward, so we're going to end up like some state where people make $4500 less than a state that doesn't have right to work. >> in the meantime, what do you do to prevent people -- what do you do to prevent the hemorrhaging of workers from mic

the union, right? all those great things bernard thinks, you can join the union, or in a right-to-work state, you cannot. >> absolutely. this gives the workers the freedom to choose what they want and if they want to join a union. to go back to what he said, that this would be something that the voters will have retribution against the governor, they had an opportunity this past november to actually vote against right to work with protect our jobs which was a ballot measure that would have had an amendment to block right to work as an amendment to the state constitution. they rejected that, 57-42. in a state where they know unions, where unions were born, they rejected the ability to block this right-to-work amendment. so this shows that the public wants to have the opportunity to attract more businesses to the state and to have a more friendly environment. megyn: what do you think, bernard, john fund -- previously of "the wall street journal," now he writes for the national review -- was on our air ea

you have a great union there. is this right to work thing really going to hurt your union and kill the esprit de corps of the union workers? why would this hurt them? >> i don't think it will in the uaw. we have great membership loyalty. the problem is it's just the first step. we have watched in this state right wing legislatures pass laws to take away the collective bargaining rights from public sector employees on health care and pensions. they did a petty vindictive law that took away the right to dues deductions for teachers. that's why we're fighting here today, we want to stop this before they try it take away the rights of private sector workers to bargain over wages or pensions or health care. this is about democracy and about america. also want to say for economic hey sis, it's so great to see you. you, too! oh, cloudy glasses. you didn't have to come over! actually, honey, i think i did... oh? you did? whoa, ladies, easy. hi. cascade kitchen counselor. we can help avoid this with cascade complete pacs.

picking the pockets of non union employees on union work sites. i think you should tell the president and vice president don't pick the american pockets so much. you know, i think republicans at the end of the day want to make a strategic move to extend the middle class tax cuts. but i think these huge revenue numbers which pick taxpayer pockets. don't go so far in that. taxpayers have limits. >> larry, i thought your position in that interview was right. i was thinking i'm glad larry is here in town comes down to my town to talk about economic growth. and we can have all kinds of arguments that you and i have had for years. but your position was right. we have to solve this problem which is going to involve problems in the interest in the economy and full session. nobody is arguing that they are going to do anything to stimulate the economy. they have said the opposite. president obama was saying you don't do this in the middle of a recession. i think jacking up the taxes on the job creators on small businesses it is like 700,000 jobs. >> what ka

shouldn't unions get with it, see reality and see global environment. >> should unions get with it the fact we don't have living wages in the united states and corporations have so much power they're overriding --. neil: what about nonunion counterparts who go through the same stuff every day. >> they do and a shame they're not unionized because union wages are 28% higher. everyone should be in a union. the fact we lost sight of that. neil: why don't you think they are? maybe because they can't be a of forded? >> i think corporations have run a campaign for the last 40 years that have demonized unions and when you talk about unions we're talking about average workers. we'rr talking about your neighbors. we're talking about, you know, maybe people who are watching this. we're not talking about some amorphous group of thugs as they have often been characterized. neil: i don't think we have to talk about amorphous group of thugs. we have to talk about money in, money out. a lot of companies can't afford them. they look always for the place where capital will be least risked. >> i think th

i still belong to one and i like the union." but this discredits the entire union movement. it is criminal activity, it is stupid, it is destructive to the reputation of the union, destructive to workers. ronald reagan was a union leader, a proud one. the screen actors' guild. i don't think he would con cone this and neither should the democratic party today. >> no one is condoning the violence but no one is saying these nonrepresentative extreme people represent the entire labor people. i think these are be a bore rags. >> what did we see in wisconsin. >> and we should condemn it on the left and the right. we are consistent on that. >> lanny, they inveighed the legislator of wisconsin shouting and hollering when from the balconies. if conservatives did that in the u.s. capitol, they would go to jail. >> i think they would both be wrong and i agree with you it hurts the labor union. as a pro labor democrat that's correct kind ever activity doesn't persuade undecided people. it turns off those people. so are they are hurting the labor movement by that kind of action. >> thank

there is the private union and the public union. >> right. >> greta: and the public-sector union is so vastly different in one respect, you know, lawyers always have to worry about the conflict of interest. but there is something bizarre about a public-sector union, putting somebody in office and then negotiating with that somebody for the person's wages or benefits. >> right. >> greta: public service. there is a horrible conflict of interest that i don't know how it correct t. i just know that it exists because, you know, you are negotiating with the person who put in office. >> exactly. right! they go raise money for this guy, they nominate him and then they elect him. he wins by a few poign points and they want to negotiate the contract, joe, you and i are buddies. let's talk it over. so have you an inherent conflict of interest. the public prb with the public unions, look, we are borrowing 40 cents out of every dollar we spend. mon of the public unions when i wrote by book, the federal government, the pay and benefits combined of the average federal worker were about twice what the

who's in a union shop should pay union dues. you might ask why is that a big deal. well if not everyone's required to pay you're going to have people who enjoy the advantages of a union better pay and better benefits environment but who don't contribute to the union's survival at all. this only works if we're all in it together. and more than that, this law is going to starve unions of their funding. from a political perspective in this democracy that is their power. there are actually two separate pieces of legislation. first applies to private sector employees like autoworkers. second one is public sector employees like teachers. though, of course, it exempts firefighters and police officers which is a classic move that republicans use off ton pit unions against each other. this is the same trick that they probably learned i'm sure everybody knows from their colleagues in wisconsin. but even as protests continue, these bills are heading to governor rick schneider's desk. what's he going to do? back in february, he criticized t

back was broken by a bunch of thug cops who hated unions. now, all i want to say to those guys there are a lot of you out there who have done remarkable work for the workers in the country. do not take what you heard here. it's not people who understand all your history. there is no reason to have to. >> greg: you can bring that up to negate any criticism of the union to commit violence against innocent people. well done. >> eric: we have to go. that is if it for "the five." thank you for watching. >> dana: on that note. >> greg: unbelievable. >> bret: good evening. i'm bret baier. this is a fox news alert. tonight, michigan, the home of the american automobile industry, state that has been dominated by big labor unions, is now a right to work state. michigan's republican governor has just signed a bill in to law ending union ability to force workers to pay dues. february they are not in the union. democrats are predicting a warning of blood in the streets. here is what the governor said moments ago about why he supported the legislation. >>

union thugs beat the crap out of people -- >> bob: union thugs? >> eric: and teachers are -- >> greg: what do you call dish >> dana: you call people scabs and you are upset someone says union thugs? >> andrea: how can you have it both ways? you are a tough group that put the giant inflatable rafts in front of the construction projects or nonunion construction par projects across the country or you're now a little victim who can't help themselves and everyone else is -- you're a big group that go on people's houses in wall street and bully those people and trespass. and overwhelm them and -- >> bob: wall street does that. >> andrea: where are the unions? >> dana: the unions did have an effective and important role in past. but i also think that other -- as companies have had to evolve, the unions need to evolve as well. they are getting terrible advice right now and there are ways to work with the governor, what only has their best interest in mind. what else does he want? why else would he do it? why? why? >> eric: >> bob: it brings people in to t

>> of course they do, but we don't have union shops any more. the union hired and the union fired. that is not the case. employers who hire and employers to fire. unions have become far more flexible. sure, they had made mistakes, but to throw them out -- >> if this were a true choice, it would not in the structures so that there cannot be a ballot initiative. >> but let's be clear -- >> they saw what happened in ohio, and only people exempted are the police and firemen. they are the best paid public employees around. >> but despite the propaganda, this was not a vote to shut down, or, as mark said, throw out the unions. allows the worker and a in a factory to decide. in a free society, you expect someone to be able to choose. >> beyond expectation, beyond our dreams. exciting to see everybody out of seattle and washington, thank you. >> sunday in seattle was the first day that gay people could marry in washington state. the supreme court will take up the issue. which way will they go? >> striking down the federal law, defense of ameritech, saying that we don't recognize -- defense

start with compared to the union 22. that was a tough road to hoe but if it is not as much paid attention to because 4 million wear black or slave so when it came time to mobilize the not have access to 10 million but a white population of 6 million, half for women and half for under age. the demographics were tough to start. >>host: how many white males? >>guest: i tried to figure out how many of of voting age. that link was pretty tight and with the voting age white men with 18 through 35 by the end it is 18 to 55. >>host: what advantages besides cotton, we hear about that for years what are the advantages? >> as lee said they were overwhelmed by the industrial north of slave labor south than two-thirds of the capital is with enslaved human beings. they had to ship out across the embargo. and then they could list the things that they don't have. with a lot of faith just says they made the united states when it was they could secede to make this other country in independent to build a nation states on the basis of cotto

one of their union are not. josh and the last minute we have here do you expect that we will see a blow back to this like like there was in ohio or wisconsin. well it remains to be seen i mean certainly republicans are hoping this plays out like in the end where there were protests there was a decision not to have civil disobedience at the super bowl there was promise that there would be payback in this past november election and actually republicans games in illinois in the indiana legislature on the other hand in ohio the bill was reversed by referendum in even mitt romney was hurt so it remains to be seen the republicans apparently have tried to make it impossible to have a referendum pushing the issue to the two thousand and fourteen elections but certainly lots of governors in other states are going to be watching to see is this something they can get away with or not and the response is going to dictate that amazing send a straw to ryan johnson josh eidelson thank you all for being with us thank you for yo

unions. since the elections of 2010 we have seen this in indiana and wisconsin. republicans tried to do that in ohio too. and voters repealed the anti-union law by 22 points. today republicans succeeded in taking away union rights. they succeeded in weakening unions in the cradle of american labor, in michigan, in walter reuther's home. it didn't even take them all that long. >> mr. speaker, i have a question of final passage of senate bill 116. there are 58 aye votes and 52 nay. >> having voted for, the bill is passed. >> the michigan legislature today finished what they started out of the blue last week. they passed a pair of bills to take union rights away from public employees, and this is important, from workers in the private sector. you can see the reaction from supporters of union rights today at the capitol. more than 10,000 people gathered on the lawn outside. they say the protests today in michigan the largest the state has ever seen. the bills weaken unions in michigan by making i

, and the unions cannot stop it. tracy: they brought down, the auto industry, and the airlines and heck baseball at one point is, this the beginning of the end? >> this is a long train wreck for the unions right now, this is -- when you think about michigan the pillar of unions, and this particular state, not passing a constitutional amendment that would ave been, great for the unions then losing this particular initiative. the news is not good for the union workers right now. tracy: and james, tech industries, you see you know, you don't see bill gates or steve jobs, while still alive, working for union workers, the world is changing a little bit, is it still necessary? >> that is the problem that the unions have, they have not changed fundamentally how they represent workers since the 1930s, but the economy has changed. look at union contracts, all senior tie based promotions and pancreases. you want performance reviews, and performance based pays and the union makes name possible. tracy: thank you for your insight

the european union collect the nobel peace prize in oslo. >> the thousands of jobs under threat. carmaker opel halts production at one of its biggest plants in germany. >> and will he or won't he -- mario monti's back and forth on resignation casts uncertainty over italy's economic and political future. >> we begin the show with what has been a day of celebration for the european union. >> the three senior figures representing the eu have been in the norwegian capital, oslo, to collect the nobel peace prize. it was awarded to the 27-member bloc for six decades of promoting peace, democracy, and human rights. >> however, not everyone is happy. some have asked whether the price is justified at that time when the eu is mired in economic and financial -- the prize is justified at that time when the eu is mired in economic and financial crisis. desmond tutu says it is an organization based on military force. >> coveted award was accepted with pride by the eu's 3 president, martin schulz, herman van rompuy, and jose manuel barroso. the standing ovation they received was a rare accolade

they were forming unions in a none union environment. when wierp forming unions there about a decade ago almost no worker had a union. so people say there's no leverage there. we created a bottom-up structure said said we'll talk to other workers and have the workers talk to their religious leader in the region about why having union matters. and then we'll have them all talk to their pta and little league and soccer coach and soccer mom and we began a broad based grassroots strategy to reeducate people about how we created good jobs in the country and the base came from the churches, sip goings, mosques, the parent-teacher association, little league and soccer fields we collectively formed an organization to begin to fight. that's leverage at the polls and leverage against the employers. it was a grassroots effort by a whole community rising up and saying, we have to create it by forming union and defending workers and forming union and we shifted an entire market in southern connecticut from nonunion to union in several years by taking

when people join the european union where they will joining a federal union ok because you know what a lot of people will say is that they lost more and more of their freedoms to make decisions about their economies civil society sick cetera. well i totally disagree to that i mean of course the european union has to be based on subsidy or it's a principle which means that the decisions are made close as possible to the citizens on the other hand you know is an indication is that the case song truth is that the case let me finish all right go ahead yeah yeah of course about dontcha think that . in a case that a federal union existed with a federal strong budget that the sovereignty of the european citizens overall would be better than we have it now in that crisis we are all victims at the moment because we do not have a fully fledged clearly question is the people who join to create something like the united states yeah i mean they are going to they join it to create a united states of europe that has to be discussed i'm not saying yes there is no alternative to that and if they don'

to that union, i have got to join the union to get the job. why should i therefore have to pay money to that union? >> what is un-american is what you are suggesting, right to work. let me explain why it is un-american -- [talking over each other] >> nobody is denying the right to work. i'm trying to explain to you what you are saying is not democratic and un-american. this country is a democracy. majority rule. if the majority in a company vote to be in a union than that is what that is just like if you live in new york or l.a. and saying you are going to pay taxes in that city. you might not like the administration of government, you might not like -- you will pay city taxes or you can move out of the city. you can change the process and get involved in the same way -- stuart: i understand point. [talking over each other] stuart: voting to make michigan a right to work state. that is the democratic process. that is what is happening here. >> these people on lawfully legally expressing their opinion today. we have a mess on our hands. stuart:

one weak geek, and we aren't going to take it anymore. >> unions, unions, unions! >> i would say it's a union talk as to why they add value. and if workers really see value, if they see why it's a good thing to be long, they will join, and if they don't, why should they join? >> i'm out here to protect us as a union, and to protect our collective bargaining rights. i'm hoping to make a change. this is wrong. they have taken and they have stripped the right of the michigan people. >> the protests looked like wisconsin but it's not. the explosive video shows protests inside the michigan state capitol. the protesters are chanting "shut it down." and outside the protests growing violent. an angry mob destroying a tent on the state capitol lawn. some in the crowd were armed with knives. michigan is the 24th state heading into the right to work column. our next guest called to a, quote, bold and historic day for michigan. earlier tonight we spoke to michigan state senator majority leader arlen meekoff. >> what do you expect to get for the state of michigan out of this? w

. >> union busting is disgusting! (laughter). >> jon: dude, you're from michigan, detroit, "8 mile." you've got to come up with better rhymes that busting-disgusting if you want to win the khraoe climactic rap. you have to put effort into it. (laughter) (cheers and applause) look, you have one job at one factory, when you seize every benefit you could, yo, our palms are sweaty, knees week, arms heavy, working in a factory all day building chevys, like the volt, you plug it in, and then you win -- ecologically, because if it was an actual race you would not -- actually. you've got to dues collect for the unions oro bahts are going to come and take away our jobs or to the chinese kids with the tiny hands to work and go -- ♪ this of ha tunety comes once in a lifetime note? note yo! (cheers and applause) you know what i realized? if i perform my hoff-torah a as bad as that i would owe my relatives money. for more we go to aasif mandvi in michigan and jason jones in indiana. there's not much kpet advantage in doing somet

. >> got to a point where the modern unionizing schemes unions doesn't call themselves unions anymore. in the case of new york city they launched a campaign to try to unionize the fast food restaurant. they didn't call it the fast food restaurant unsions, they called it fast food forward. at this point i think unions are finally realizing that their brand is so toxic that they actually need to start rebranding themselves because frankly they haven't been willing or capable to actually adjust to a 21st century economy. they are stuck in the 1950s, and they want 1950s policies to return, return to protectionism and a whole slew of other policies that will hurt our economy so at this point they are sort of like becoming, well, almost extinct. >> what about that? are you stuck in the 1950s? >> absolutely not, and i think maybe just season in a little bit of a delusional stage here because unions in fact are the key right now in this weak economy. it's what we need. >> key to putting people out of work? you just put 18,000 people out of work. >> i didn't interrupt you. the key to balancing

there is neither in the union in the christian democratic union challenger nor is there anybody from the opposition so far who is a strong enough personality to really challenge her so michael is trying to tie the e.u. to a fiscal union if michael is redirected for a third term how much will her european economic policy change i mean will it become more aggressive she seems to have a lot of weight since she is the most popular person at the moment. yeah it will not become more aggressive but it will be felt more strongly because this fiscal union which is imposed from central bureaucratic brussels will force. the people to accept things that they otherwise wouldn't accept so it will become and so governments and parliaments will lose its sovereign budget rights and that is unbelievable for a confederation of states as europe it is so if she is reelected will she be seeking to firmly establish germany as the center of the euro politically as well as economically no i don't think so i think she will still seek the support of all other european partner countries however the central forc

ouldn't unions get with it, see reality and see global environment. >> should unions get with it the fact we don't have living wages in the united states and corporations have so much power they're overriding --. neil: what about nonunion counterparts who go through the same stuff every day. >> they do and a shame they're not unionized because union wages are 28% higher. everyone should be in a union. the fact we lost sight of that. neil: why don't you think they are? maybe because they can't be a of forded >> i think corporations have run a campaign for the last 40 years that have demonized unions and when you talk about unions we're talking about average workers. we'rr talking about your neighbors. we're talking about, you know, maybe people who are watching this. we're not talking about some amorphous groupf thugs as they have often been characterized. neil: i don't think we have to talk about amorphous group of thugs. we have to talk about money in, money out. a lot of companies can't afford them. they look always for the place where capital will be least risked. >> i think that

under a right to work law, employees of a union shop don't have to pay union dues. the employees get the benefit of the union, the higher wages and better health care, all of that, but they do not have to pay for it. why pay money if you can have something for free? for unions, the results of this are close to catastrophic which is why republicans and big business love right to work laws. they are a way of destroying unions. the same heritage foundation that will be jim demint's new home says union membership fell by 15% in states that passed right to work. union organizing fell by half, passing a right to work law stops unions and it stops organizing. on the labor left, the economic policy institute reports that wages fall by more than 3% after you institute right to work. and pensions take a hit, too. that's why unions call right to work the right to work for less. with governor snyder saying he wanted no part of a fight over right to work just a few months ago, the move to pass a bill in michigan was, well, kind of surprising. it appears to have started this year

the lower left-hand corner, that is union square. that is the little blue sliver you can see on union square. it occurs basically when the sunlight lines up in such a way that made lane allow for that sunlight to be cast for a moment. here is the zoo, where you can see the orange strip. again, from 7:25 to 7:30 a.m. here is where that shadow is cast on union square. so again the actually design has been sculpted and been refined from earlier height of 875 to 700. think i'm going to ask kevin guy to come up and talk a bit about that. one thing i wanted to mention before i turn it over. included in your finding is an analysis that was done of usage at that time in union square. there was very minimal usage at that time. mostly members of the public passing through the square quickly. the cafe was open, though they don't generally have a lot of customers at that time or seating. but there were people inside the cafe at that time. just to understand that is why we anticipate use would not be impacted by this shadow. kevin. >> thank you.

i'm not being anti-union here. i'm pro-union. i want factories in connecticut, in rhode island, in massachusetts, across new england reopened. but the jobs from overseas, they're not going there. they're not going there because of work force rules that i think even trump told me were outdated and outmoded. >> is our education system outdated? >> no. >> our union advocacy, is that outdated, how they go about fighting for it? i don't know. that question was put on the table. whether factories are shut, that means jobs have left. if you look at wages enjoyed by workers in right-to-work states, i think it should be put on the table. where do they fare? i have not done the analysis so it's hard to say. >> it's a question, though, willie, whether you want the job or not. >> right. >> i asked bob riley, i've said this 1,000 times, it seems extraordinarily important if you're a union member in the northeast, and like me, you want your factories running again. i asked bob riley, i don't understand, why did mercedes go to tuscaloosa county

i'm a union man and i know charlie is very fond of unions. we love unions, but we want people to have the right to choose whether or not they belong to a union. a clothes shop where they have to ha the union and i don't think that's freed, if you nt to join the union by all means, but to make it mandatory, that seems a bit harsh. >> neil: buthe unions are spinning it the other way in michigan, charles, what do y make of that? >> and ben makes the great point. the unions feel like their back has been against the walls and have for a number of years. in michigan, this is the way we can be competitive. listen, everyone talks about the great comeback in detro inheuto sector, that's a mirage. micgan's in trouble, detroit is in trouble and this is how they compete on the national scale, ultimately, a global cale. >> neil: dagen? >> very significant that this is happening and by the way, this is just the right to not have to pay union dues if you don't want to belong to a union first and foremost. >> neil: and you got that. >> very significant that

are you serious this is not anti-union? >> i don't view it as pro or anti-union. unions just need to be responsive to people to step up and deliver value. and workers have that choice. and workers should have that choice. they shouldn't be compelled to join something they don't see value in. >> virg bernero, isn't it interesting how government in michigan is so concerned about the relationship between union and its workers? >> yeah, it's interesting this freedom, freedom and this choice. you know, if the governor and others who are for this believe really in this kind of freedom and choice in a democracy, then why don't they make taxes voluntary? because the reality is that that's what union dues are. the majority has voted for a union, and the majority rules in a democracy. just like the majority voted for rick snyder. i might not agree with his policies as governor, but i don't have a choice to hold back on my taxes. i might not agree with the direction the president is taking, but i got to pay my federal taxes or the irs will come after me. so the idea that you

this is pure and simple union busting. these right to work laws have already had serious impacts across the country. wages for all workers, unionized and otherwise have decreased an average of $1,500 a year and workers are less likely to get health insurance or pensions. during the campaign any president voiced strong support the unions but as we know campaigning a very different from governing. things didn't look too promising this morning. so let's let the president speak for himself on this one. here he is in red ford michigan late this afternoon. >> obama: what we shouldn't be doing is taking away your rights to bargain for better wages. these so-called right to work laws have everything to do with politics. >> nice work mr. president, reelection beginning to look good on you. and michigan's workers are forging ahead. tomorrow thousands of protesters are set to desecond on the capitol of lancing. two school districts have canceled classes because of these protests. today we got a preview. members of the nurse's union a

he is a union leader. has been a foreign minister for chavez and one of the big questions is will he continue some of the policies of chavez. chavez essentially gave away billions of dollars of venezuela's oil wealth to prop up countries like cuba, so making him one of the more influential leaders in the region, but hasn't always been very popular in venezuela sh but all eyes in cuba on the venezuelan president as he's expected to arrive perhaps as soon as today to begin immediate cancer treatment here in havana. >> so, why did chavez need permission to go to cuba in the first place? >> you know, we've seen this as he spent months and months here over the last year and a half as part of this country's institution, if he spends more than five days out of the country, he needs permission and if he were to spend more than 30 days, he would be removed from power. that's not going to happen. he's deal iing with a national assembly that's full of his supporters, but there was rare criticism today from members of

union. >> but is not the main fact. the law requires that the unions represent all the employees, whether or not they are members of the union. neil: i mean, not the u.s. are -- i talked to lawyers all the time. i never understand you guys. you are so brilliant. there is an argument to be made that they're not part of the union or could benefit from a government they make, so there might be a stipulation for nonunion union members, do you know what i mean? >> plus break this down and make it simple. neil: i like that. it's very effective. go on. neil: employees had to pay a very small percentage of their income to the unions for representation. as a result of this law, it will no longer be mandatory for employees to make those payments. as a result, the unions will be representing all of the employees, but without necessarily being paid. it will become a voluntary basis, whether or not these employees want to pay a couple of hundred dollars per year. neil: that is exactly right. do you agree

when people joined the european union when they were joining a federal union and he because you know what a lot of people will say is that they lost more and more of their freedoms to make decisions about their economies civil society sick cetera. well i totally disagree to that i mean of course the european union has to be based on subsidy or it's a principle which means that the decisions are made close as possible to the citizens on the other hand you know is that a case is that the case song truth is that the case let me finish all right go ahead yeah yeah of course about dontcha think that. in a case that a federal union existed with a federal strong budget that the sovereignty of the european citizens overall would be better than we have now in that crisis we are all victims at the moment because we do not have a fully fledged clearly question is did people join to create something like the united states yeah i mean they join to join it to create a united states of europe that it has to be discussed i'm just saying yes there is no alternative to that and if they don't want to b

union. if you look, i believe this is pro-worker. because the way i view it is workers now have freedom to choose. >> are you serious? are you serious, this is not anti-union? at its core, this undermines the ability for unions to organize so you can make many arguments you like to say it's not anti-union. >> all right. >> this does not deal with organizing at all. this does not deal with collective bargaining at all. >> erin, big picture, what does this mean for organized labor? >> what it means is they will be fueled and energized going into the 2014 midterm elections and i can't believe that we are talking about another election cycle just yet, but i interviewed the chair of the democratic governors association, the governor of vermont, over the weekend and he was telling me that this will be a very big deal going into all of the midwestern gubernatorial races in 2014. there are a lot of republicans who won in 2010 and obviously, because of this issue, they're really going to go after tho

enforced union states down 3.4%. that is a significant statement when it comes to right-to-work states in this country. >> it sure is. the real bottom line to it is people are voting with their feet. since 1990s -- since 1990 every time we've reapportioned the united states house of representatives, the right-to-work states have gained eight to nine representatives while the forced unionism states have lost eight to nine. the difference since 1990 has been 25 seats going from the forced unionism states to the right-to-work states. people are voting with their feet. people don't want to be forced into unionism, they don't want to have a pay a union to keep their jobs. lou: and the fact of the matter is that a heritage study shows a quarter of union members would stop paying dues if they could. they're being begin thaa opportunity under legislation. as we reported, 22 states considering it this year, four of them actually got it done including now most recently, of course, the state of michigan. how powerful is this mo

the unions hate it. will the president step in? . detroit voted for him, the unions, mr. obama is there, what is he going to do? china is here buying part of the bailed out aig, buying 123 battery company and buying american mansions. that's what happens when china has the money and we've spent all of ours. or losing money can pop up anytime. that's why she trades with the leader in mobile trading. so she's always ready to take action, no matter how wily... or weird... or wonderfully the market's behaving... which isn't rocket science. it just common sense. from ameritrade. i heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. that's right. i've learned the only way to get a holid deal is to camp out. you know we've been open all night. is this a trick to get my spot? [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fex office. >> two big stories coming together today in michigan. first off, the new right to work rules will become law tomorrow. the unions are absolutely furious out protesting yesterday and big demonstrations still to co