but first our top stories, waiting on apple. america's most valuable company reports earnings today after the close, and with shares down 30% from the highs, the stakes could not be higher. cnbc's jon fortt is live in silicon valley with the latest. jon? >> reporter: hey, scott. the main number to watch in this report is iphone sales. that's going to have the biggest influence on margins. if the iphone outperformed, it's also going to have an impact on revenue and ep s. take a look at some estimates out there for iphone sales. i think the street's consensus is between 46 million and 48 million units with some moving higher in recent days. for ipad sales consensus is around 23 million or 24 million units. here is the thing i keep coming back to. verizon's numbers yesterday, i know it's a fool's errand to extrapolate out to a global iphone, apple's penetration into verizon hit ridiculous levels last quarter. verizon activated more old iphones than total android phones. this debunks the idea that apple is getting less cool in devel

a big apple partner, a.t.&t. experienced the short term cost of selling all those iphones at a discount. but saw the growth slow of wireless new subscribers signing long term contracts. while earnings were up om a ar ago, they were a pey per share less than estimates. these results are before a.t.&t. took a $10 billion accounting charge for pension and retirement plans. as the company battles verizon for wireless customers, it is falling further behind. a.t.&t. added 780,000 in the fourth quarter to a total of 70.5 million. but verizon added 2.1 million new subscribers in the same time period to 92.5 million. shares of a.t.&t. were down a fraction during the regular trading session,ut gned about 0.5% to almost $34 per share in extended hours trading. it's full year forecast was slightly more encouraging than what analysts had expected. also moving in after hours trading was starbucks. the stock finished the regular session up 0.2%, and added another 2% after releasing its latest financial results. the company ear

apple said it sold every ipad mini it could make. and fewer mac computers were bought, sales of those fell 21%. >> tom: the company's outlook for revenue this quarter was disappointing, pushing shares down in extended hours trading. brian colello is an analyst with morningstar. he joins us from chicago. >> tom: brian, before we talk about that forecast, what do you make of the fiscal first quarter. some pretty big numbers reported. >> some big numbers, but a little lighter than consensus, around 48 million iphone units, 22 million ipad units, a little less than consensus, and a little disappointing to investors, and certainly when you have the forecast that was light on top of it, it makes for a disappointing quarter. >> tom: i can already hear those apple shareholders saying financial expectations are just impossible for apple to exceed. they're so high. what do you say to them? >> well, i think investors may have caught up to apple's stunning growth, but perhaps the law of large numbers, i think growth is getting increasingly harde

when apple peaks, it's not just apple. this is what happened with google in '07, went down 66% and yahoo! and ge and on and on. so, when the next bear market comes, which i think probably begins sometime later this year, apple's going to get taken apart. it started a little earlier, because frankly, i think we're still in a bull market. >> how do we get a decline of 50% to 80%? how do you come up with that percentage decline? >> it's based on historic research of every storied stock in history. the bear markets are very unkind. they punished the people that came in late. if you look at a chart of apple. the last big move, the real acceleration started at about 400 and axel raexcel rated almo to 405. if vihistory is any guide, you wipe out a minimum of people that came in during the high mo phase, that gets me at least under 400. and if you used a 50% to 80%, you get somewhere between 300 and 400. >> right. >> i'm not saying apple is done. it's a wonderful company, it will be around forever, but i think apple's best growth

apple. i'm still impressed with the obsession that people have with, do i buy it now that it's down a little bit, institutional hands, have they told is it, do they own it, this is not the type of talk that goes on at a real enduring bottom in an asset class or stock. i think it trades incredibly badly. and in the very short term, i don't know where the stock is this very second. i know it was down pretty sharply, town to about 486 or so. last i saw it. but the intraday low is 483. i think if you take that out and certainly if you close tomorrow at 483, you're going to see 425 very, very quickly. the best thing apple has going for it is it's lost some of its down side momentum. last time we spoke, me list, was november 16th and we talked about how risk asset stocks, probably start to catch a bit. and maybe bond yields, short term -- all those things have happened. it seems that so many things have had a nice rally from there. apple isn't among them. but i really think it's time to be hooking

a big apple partner, a.t.&t. experienced the short term cost of selling all those iphones at a discount. but saw the growth slow of wireless new subscribers signing long term contracts. while earnings were up from a year ago, they were a penny per share less than estimates. these results are before a.t.&t. took a $10 billion accounting charge for pension and retirement plans. as the company battles verizon for wireless customers, it is falling further behind. a.t.&t. added 780,000 in the fourth quarter to a total of 70.5 million. but verizon added 2.1 million new subscribers in the same time period to 92.5 million. shares of a.t.&t. were down a fraction during the regular trading session, but gained about 0.5% to almost $34 per share in extended hours trading. it's full year forecast was slightly more encouraging than what analysts had expected. also moving in after hours trading was starbucks. the stock finished the regular session up 0.2%, and added another 2% after releasing its latest financial results. the c

apple is living proof. i say cry me a river the size of the amazon because apple's rainforest eco system is being challenged by development everywhere. when you have turbocharged growth, you can get away with anything, and reality places no limits on how high your stock can go. apple should bite the bullet and buy amazon, and hey, they could keep jeff bezos as ceo restoring the stock's visionary premium. john in illinois. john? >> caller: hey, jim, how you doing? >> all right, what's going on? >> caller: i got a crazed super computer for you, man. company headquartered out in seattle, washington, i did a little homework on it. i found good cash, little or no debt. but the one thing that stood out to me, i was wondering because of the limited -- possible limited market is the future growth. is it -- can we see -- >> no, you know what? i think you got a winner, but i think you should take half off the table. i looked at that company before, i'm shocked it's gotten this high. i think it's too risky. i want you

>> was making a joke about apple, comparing apple to disney. apple trading 10 times forward earnings. the trading 16, 17, 18 times forward earnings. it is all relative when you look at the marketplace you have to compare it to something else, compare the stock value twit has been in the past or where it will be in the future. apple has a lot of changes happening and growth. much more stable model, that is why disney is able to command a 50% higher multiple than apple. i think a stock like apple may be warranted a little bit of attention. david: that is a great point, interesting to see the future of something like disney than apple right now. thank you, gentlemen. great stuff, appreciate it. sandra: one of the most anticipated earnings report of the season. of course i am talking about apple, the stock still well off of the high reach back in september over $700 per share. taking into numbers as soon as they are released sometime this hour. keeping a special eye out for iphone sales in the company's outlook. david: raymond james with earnings,

apple said it sold every ipad mini it could make. and fewer mac computers were bought, sales of those fell 21%. >> tom: the company's outlook for revenue this quarter was disappointing, pushing shares down in extended hours trading. brian colello is an analyst with morningstar. he joins us from chicago. >> tom: brian, before we talk about that forecast, what doyou makefthe fiscal first quarter. some pretty big numbers reported. >> some big numbers, but a little lighter than consensus, around 48 million iphone units, 22 million ipad units, a little less than consensus, and a little disappointing to investors, and certainly when you have the forecast that was light on top of it, it makes for a disappointing quarter. >> tom: i can already hear those apple shareholders saying financial expectations are just impossible for apple to exceed. they're so high. what do you say to them? >> well, i think vestors may have caut up to apple's stunning growth, but perhaps the law of large numbers, i think growth is getting increasingly harder to ach

and apple may not -- >> in fact, apple held back the party. if you look at what was going on on the down, jobless claims at a post recession low. they put in a grinding phase. they were up, they were surprising up side, hbcs flash phi in china which was better. seven straight up days in the s&p. from an exhaustion perspective you ran into a major trend line at 1502. a lot of people were calling for this level for a 5%% pullback. i don't think that's out of the realm. but the data is fantastic. earnings are beating on the bottom line but the top line not so much. >> i'd say that the one big thing that you look at in the apple trade versus the futures, first thing that people did was i got to short the futures, got to short the futures. and that to an extent drives the up side. don't forget that hedge funds are getting their faces literally ripped off in the shorts. look at netflix, look at anything with short interest that works. that's what hedge funds hedge with the big indices and you see that reversal and i think there was a lot of emotion

how about the apple gaming console from 1996? how about the apple quick take camera? holding eight photos. onor this, motorola rocker e1. yeah. 2005 hp held a hundred songs. sold about a hundred copies. and this. apple lisa. $10,000 computer that effectively did nothing. >> 1983, yeah. >> first gen apple tv. it was neat when it came out until you realized you had to wirelessly sync everything in your home. and to sync a two hour movie did -- >> how long would it take you? >> about eight hours. >> not really worth it. >> you want me to add to that list? >> i don't have anything to add. anyway, few more product -- >> let's not get into religion. >> devices put to very interesting usees. scared of dining alone? there is an anti-loneliness bowl. easy to surf twitter, facebook, see what you are missing out on while you slurp your soup. and this, a potty with a place for an ipod. not sure how this will toilet train your tot. but you can coax them along and say, you can do it now, they can at least watch the wiggles at the same time. >> technology and tablets are much better

apple. nicole: i will show you apple in a moment. the dow, the s&p are doing quite well. five-year highs. highs that we have not seen since 2007. the tech heavy nasdaq, apple weighing on the nasdaq. are we almost at 14,000? we cannot believe it. what a five-year run this has been. ibm helping the markets along yesterday. today, apple delivering news that is below the analysts estimate. the shareholders are certainly disappointed today when they see their stock down over 10%. $461. the low of the day was $450. not a good day for apple while all of its competitors are soaring today. connell: the stock market looks pretty good. the economy looking better. john brown joins us. senior economic consultant at euro pacific. have we turned the corner a little bit? >> i think there is reason for some optimism. i think strategically the economy is still in very bad shape. tactically, consumers are beginning to spend. that is a good thing. things are getting better. therefore people are spending. government has to take reality down the road. it has borrowed against the credit of the

could it be any worse for apple? they came out with numbers a complete disappointment for wall street. down 63 bucks. that is humongous. sandra: humongous drop there. from one tech giant to another giant microsoft. they're set to report in a few minutes. >> that is exciting waiting on microsoft. microsoft has been pretty flat going into the close. you can see it is in the wait and see mode for the quarterly report. david: let's talk about good news which is netflix, if you own netflix yesterday. sandy and were covering it. we couldn't believe the pop it had after-hours and exceeded that during the day trading. >> tissues for apple shareholders who are drying and need a cool cloth for the net flicks folks. david: extraordinary. 42%. >> completely beat the street. [closing bell rings] david: big, big moves verse. the overall market not moving all that big, but these big movers on both the upside and the downside. we have a mixed picture on all the indices here. we have the dow jones up 50 points. might settle around th

is apple backing away from being apple. consider the last year that steve jobs passed, iphone 5 has been the subject and subsequently found out that the company took out one of the previous phone's treasures, the google maps app. that turned out to be not ready for primetime. make matters worse, it came with a new plug. you only needed one plug for the apple ecosystem. suddenly you needed a new one. the ecosystem took a hit and it's part of what makes apple so perfect and unique. next we've got an apple ipad mini. i love it. useful product, fits better in a pocket sack. however, not something so dramatic to raise i brows. andrew grove, the former ceo of intel calls it a breakthrough because of the disruptive technology. you can argue that apple made a courageous move. somebody few companies are willing to do. however, ipad mini reminded me of water isakson, author of steve jobs''s autobiography, size sack son talked about how there may not be anything huge, nothing that was omg and he said it noting that he had waited for a

apple, though, is a raizor. apple has to constantly innov e innovate, but the old razors are working well with the new blades. the valuations for amazon, anything, eye of the beholder. if apple wants to regain the petina of growth, apple's sitting on $137 billion of cash, amazon's market cap, $123 billion, apple should buy amazon. something to restore the company's status as an invulnerable growth stock. life is unfair. the great stock prognosticator jimmy carter told us that. i say cry me a river the size of the amazon because apple's rain forest eco system is being challenged by development everywhere. when you have turbo charged growth, you can get away with anything. and reality places no limits on how high your stock can go. they should bite the bullet and buy amazon. and hey, they could keep jeff bezos as ceo restoring the stock's visionary premium. john in illinois. john? >> caller: hey, jim, how you doing? >> all right, what's going on? >> caller: i got a crazed super computer for you, man. company headq

a sour day for apple investors. the stock tumbles to 11 month lows on new worries about waning demand for the iphone 5. >> susie: but a banner day for g.m., the cadillac ats takes car of the year at the big auto show in detroit, and its new corvette stingray wows gear heads around the globe. >> tom: that and more tonight on "n.b.r."! >> susie: the next big fight in washington has begun. president obama today called on republican lawmakers to authorize an increase in the nations debt limit, saying that messing with it could potentially have catastrophic results for many americans and the overall economy. he warned markets would go haywire if congress does not act, interest rates would rise, and checks to social security beneficiaries would stop. and he said even thinking about the u.s. not paying its bills is irresponsible and, "absurd". darren gersh reports. >> reporter: in his first news conference of the new year the president gave a harsh lecture to republicans about the need to raise the debt ceiling and he once

is apple backing away from being apple. consider the last year that steve jobs passed, iphone 5 has been the subject and subsequently found out that the company took out one of the previous phone's treasures, the google maps app. that turned out to be not ready for primetime. make matters worse, it came with a new plug. you only needed one plug for the apple ecosystem. suddenly you needed a new one. the ecosystem took a hit and it's part of what makes apple so perfect and unique. next we've got an apple ipad mini. i love it. useful product, fits better in a pocketbook or knapsack. however, not something so dramatic to raise eyebrows. andrew grove, the former ceo of intel calls it a 10x product, a breakthrough because of the disruptive technology. you can argue that apple made a courageous move. somebody few companies are willing to do. however, ipad mini reminded me of water isaacson, author of steve jobs' autobiography, isaacson talked about how there may not be anything huge on the drawing board, nothing that was omg and

a big apple partner, a.t.&t. experienced the short term cost of selling all those iphones at a discount. but saw the growth slow of wireless new subscribers signing long term contracts. while earnings were up from a year ago, they were a penny per share less than estimates. these results are before a.t.&t. took a $10 billion accounting charge for pension and retirement plans. as the company battles verizon for wireless customers, it is falling further behind. a.t.&t. added 780,000 in the fourth quarter to a total of 70.5 million. but verizon added 2.1 million new subscribers in the same time period to 92.5 million. shares of a.t.&t. were down a fraction during the regular trading session, but gained about 0.5% to almost $34 per share in extended hours trading. it's full year forecast was slightly more encouraging than what analysts had expected. also moving in after hours trading was starbucks. the stock finished the regular session up 0.2%, and added another 2% after releasing its latest financial results. the c

>> apple, apple, apple. >> what about investing. >> we own a lot of apple stock. >> do you watch it very closely? >> yes, we are not happy with it today of course but it will get better. >> you will keep buying their product? >> yes, of course. >> not so happy with the apple shares, and they have been dropping over the last several months. shares dropping briskly tonight. sales not enough to bring new money into the shares. apple's stock price falling 10%. it looks to be a rough morning. here in the bay area, apple is not a product, it's a way of doing business. coming up tonight, day one for a startup founded by former apple employees. we will take you inside the launch in a look, that is tonight at 6:00, for now, we are reporting live in los gatos. >> okay. thanks so much, scott. while the 49ers hit the practice field what the players say they are not going to let happen when it comes to the big game. >> plus, he is speaking out, man tie tayou's admission to the fake girlfriend. >> it's not a matter of policy. it's personal. >> hillary clinton testified on what went wrong in benghazi.

and they now think that apple's old. not repulsive like a hewlett-packard, not repugnant like a dell, just old. that could change on a dime. all apple would have to do is go buy twitter or netflix or linkedn is developing quite a following among people joining the workforce. they could buy all three and get their mojo back because that would be putting them in touch with what younger people want. netflix knows the younger generation better than most people think. apple used to know. they used to know. now netflix, they know binge viewing. nonappointment tv and shows like "arrested development" which is one of the reasons netflix can soar 43% on a 13-cent profit and plummet on a gain. it's a lesson that apple better pay attention to if it ever wants to get back in touch with the next generation and what they truly want. even as it seems they're more sure than ever of their hip status. stay with cramer. ♪ [ male announcer ] don't just reject convention. drown it out. introducing the all-new 2013 lexus ls f sport. an enti

and they now think that apple's old. not repulsive like a hewlett-packard, not repugnant like a dell, just old. that could change on a dime. all apple would have to do is go buy twitter or netflix or even linkedn, developing quite a following among younger people joining the workforce. they could buy all three and get their mojo back because that would be putting them in touch with what younger people want. netflix knows the younger generation better than most people think. apple used to know. they used to know. now netflix, they know binge viewing. non-appointment tv and shows that will be hits like "arrested development" which is one of the reasons netflix can soar 43% on a 13-cent profit and apple can plummet on a gain. it's a lesson that apple had better pay attention to if it ever wants to get back in touch with the next generation and what they truly want. even as it seems they're more sure than ever of their hip status. stay with cramer. and...done. did you just turn your ringer off so no one would interrupt us? o

are exclusive to apple. ocks ofretched to the its key suppliers. cirrus logic makes energy and audio semiconductors for apple. shares fell 10.8%. cirrus reported a big jump for its quarterly thofits, but wevenues were not as strong as sl etalrletr estimates. fellow apple supplier sky-works eropped 1.8%. wireless semiconductor supplier qualcomm saw more modest weakness, down just 0.8%. a big apple partner, a.t.&t. experienced the short term cost of selling all those iphones at a discount. but saw the growth slow of wireless new subscribers signing long term contracts. while earnings were up from a year ago, they were a penny per share less than estimates. these results are before a.t.&t. took a $10 billion accounting charge for pension and retirement plans. as the company battles verizon for wireless customers, it is falling further behind. a.t.&t. added 780,000 in the fourth quarter to a total of 70.5 million. but verizon added 2.1 million new subscribers in the same time perd to 92.5 million. shares of a.t.

analysts predicted that apple in the last quarter would sell something like 50 million iphones, and apple disappointed them by selling 47.8 million iphones. they beat expectations for a lot of other estimates, but they fell behind in a couple. analysts thought apple would sell a lot more macs. surprise, surprise. consumers today are buying more phones than computers. and apple missed the mark there. still, they have very strong revenue, record profits. inve investors, i think, were disappointed for the wrong reasons. that's why the stock has dropped. dropped 15%, 16% in the past five days alone. >> in fact, it dropped enough to make apple no longer the world's most valuable company. exon came back on top. >> they've been back and forth with those kinds of positions for at least a couple years now. >> now, what are some of the major reasons, do you think, for the slump in demand for apple products? ceo tim cook has indicated he won't reconsider the iphone smaller 3 1/2 and 4-inch screens. even at a time when other smartphones are offering bigger screens and doing quite well. >> well, i thi

and jobs said to me, "that's the beginning of apple. when we started doing that blue box, i knew that with wozniak's brilliant designs and my marketing skills, we could sell anything." >> that was still a few years off. jobs enrolled at reed college in oregon at a time when timothy leary was telling students across the country to turn on, tune in, and drop out. jobs did after one semester. >> the time we grew up in was a magical time. it was also a very, you know, spiritual time in my life. definitely taking l.s.d. is one of the more important things in my life and--not the most important but right up there. >> he eventually drifted back to his parents' house and became one of the first 50 employees to work for the video game maker atari. but he was not a big hit with his coworkers. >> never wore shoes, had very long hair, never bathed. in fact, when he went to work for atari, they put him on the night shifts because people said he smelled so bad that they didn't want to work with him. >> you know, he believed that his vegan diet and th

neil: lizzie i disclose, apple shareholder. i own apple stock. don't say anything bad about apple. no, i'm kidding. but i am getting this sense when i talk to people and a lot of people on our staff, they're geeker than you and i will ever be and they actually know what they're talking about when it comes to this stuff and many of them share this view, well apple is getting kind of outhustled on the tech front on innovation an all that stuff. i don't know whether that means outhustled for the time being or whether that is a complete change? >> i think they're getting outhustled. i think what is happening teens, not just teens but baby boomers you know what? the products are elegant. yes, they're cool. what is cool waiting in line for a souped-up version of same old-same old? i'm always dropping my smartphones and cell phones. i'm waiting for cell phones made out same tear as basketballs. what is great for waiting in line for same old-same old and paying $500 for the same old-same old. when you have apple products hard to sink their products. apple the word on the street makes it di

something rotten may be at apple. the stock is dropping, taking with it the nasdaq and a whole lot of mutual funds. so should you get ready to bite? go into apple on the report that scott just talked about. and check out the brand new corvette. iconic car, maybe even more beautiful than it's ever been. that's one of the things on display at the detroit auto show. we will take you to motor city live. but first to sue with the new york stock exchange. >> ty, you saw it moment ago on cnbc. president obama finishing up his news conference in washington. topic number one, debt ceiling deadline. john harwood is at the white house. lines are drawn, john. >> sue, they were drawn very starkly by the president. he asserted that american people vendcated his approach to deficit reduction in the recently passed election. he said he was willing to negotiate over ways to cut the deficit in the future but he accused house republicans of playing a hostage game with debt limit in the debt ceiling very soon and said he will not partici

in apple. today, 80% still own it but they have less than a market weight on average. so they have been selling the stock and the value investors, in part because i don't think the return of cash is big enough, had not been absorbing those sold shares. this is common across the market but particularly in technology. we have a stocks that entering growth purgatory. it's going to grow 10 or 15% a year. when that happens, there's a tremendous turnover in the shareholder base. stocks underperformed 35 to 40%. that's what is happening with apple. >> are you telling us that products going forward for apple are not going to be the catalyst to lift the stock price, that it's going to come down to things like buybacks and other things to put that cash to use? >> it's a different kind of company. apple is no longer a hyper growth company. you can't keep growing at 40 or 50% a year. the math simply does not work. and accordingly, apple is going to grow at more modest rates. it's still going to growth reve

>> the same size as apple on a unit basis so if you're an applications developer you look at apple as more attractive because people pay a lot of money for xwraps and not so much on android. part is because there aren't as many apps and they don't work as well because it's harder to make one app work across everything. now that samsung is big i think he developed for samsung only which means google is going to lose control of their own operating system. they've already lost control of the part done by amazon so i would have -- the thing that's so amazing to me is that the big companies have huge opportunities now. microsoft owns skype, the telecommunications, the most important telecom system in the emerging world they have 400 million active users which is more than the number users of windows these days. >> rose: 400 million -- >> like over a hundred million who pay them to use it. so you look at this and go wait a minute, why are you trying to subordinate this to window which is the is the product most harmed by the ipad and iphones? why wouldn't you sit there and go wait a minute,

apples to apples comparison, apple is still twice the size. cheryl: one man's treasure is another man's trash. and in that kind of goes to apple and rim right now, a big jump in rim stocks given the component makers seeing a scale back from apple. does rim win? >> it is interesting. look at the universe of beaten down tech companies, hp, dell, nokia, that group has performed remarkably well in the last month. it has been stunning actually. we're seeing portfolio managers and hedge fund managers buy these things on high short interest and there is the option value for those things. in research in motion's case there is a chance of success but it really will be dependent on how enterprises embrace their new handsets and how the consumers embrace the new handset and right now we're at a hold. we feel comfortable with that for the time being but certainly we would not want to be short. cheryl: you may have to reevaluate that one. another company, that is dell. and you have a hold on dell. but the news crossed the report, they're looking to go priv

apple turned into $13.81. but guidance, he was hoping that the march quarter would come in above $45 billion. apple guided to $41 billion to $43 billion. here is the rub. apple said you know how in the past we would give conservative guidance, sandbag a number we knew we could beat? we're not doing that any more. now the range is something we believe we feel we will fall in. but $3 billion under what wall street wanted to hear and there's not much solace. we take a look at the quarter and see exactly how -- >> well, jon fortt trying to give us the latest take on what was happening with apple. apologies for that. we're going to take a quick and sort everything out. we'll have plenty more to come out of davos. next we'll hear what theeo of citigroup had to say. ♪ [ male announcer ] end your long week... with a weekend getaway. save up to forty percent on all weekend hotel stays. book by january thirty first at hiltonanyweekend.com. >>> all right. we continue the program here in davos, maria and i. for the brit

apple is not a broken company. apple is not a melting ice cube. apple still is growing. so the problem with a lot of sort of value trap stories in tech is that the earnings keep going down every year. apple's earnings are still going up. just that they're not going up at the same rate. i think it's a fantastic opportunity. i've been saying that since it, you know, fell into the range so i've been wrong there. but i think you always have to re-evaluate, and take a step forward. but i think apple is still growing, they're still -- there's no lines anymore if samsung is making fun of. that's going to be a problem for me. right now there's still lines and they're still growing and margins are still high. just not as much as they used to be. >> jon? >> you know, i think it's interesting that became was up so much yesterday powering the dow. this apple story is kind of like between the facebook ipo and ibm. ibm does so well at managing expectations. they're an extreme case of managing both expectations, and their earnings. facebook totally whipped it on their ipo by not correc

andrew, let's start with the a's and stay with the a's - alcoa and apple, beginning with apple. now you have been so bullish on that over the years. how have you been playing it since it's been dropping, what? down 15 points on friday. > > actually bill, you haven't been on the show with me for awhile. i have actually changed my tune, and now i have been playing it to the short side. i just don't see apple going forward in 2013. all their products have been cannibalized. the ipad mini is now going to be replacing the ipad. one out of every four people that buy and ipad mini won't be buying an ipad. they have a lot of increased competition from samsung and google. next year we are talking about an iwatch, where you can tweet through your watch. it doesn't make much sense. then they are talking about and iphone 6, in different colors. it's just not really perking my interest. competition is starting to get to them. > is this the post-steve jobs era that we are now into, where apple just becomes another tech company? > > i think so. unless we get huge news on an apple tv, and that

and then there's apple. which reported what many considered a disappointing quarter after the close. company delivering 33 cent earnings beat off 13.48 basis, revenues came in slightly light. as a result, the stock got pu. it made $13 a share, netflix, lid linkedin and amazon. one goes down gigantically, where's the justice here? where's the love? or the benefit of the doubt? oh, no, with apple it doesn't work that way anymore. apple's the opposite of amazon now in show me mode after rallying for a long time. amazon's a company where you've been shown just keeps showing you. apple's relatively new leadership under tim cook who is not particularly well known or promotion promotional. amazon is run by a guy regarded as the ultimate pioneer, gets the benefit of the doubt at every turn. apple's a total spendthrift, a cheapskate with $137 billion in cash in the bank. unlike just about every other walk of life, we revere amazon because it's spending like mad. but we score an apple because a third of the market cap

>>> what can i say about apple? of all the things that went wrong with that lackluster quarter yesterday, worst of all, by far was last night's imperious condescending conference call. the stock got hit with a host of downgrades and price cuts on its way to a 63-point comedown, in large part because the call explained nothing about what's really going on. some companies just don't want to do the call. they don't want to waste their time, be constrained by those myopic wall street analysts who spend all their time building models rather than sleek, elegant, beloved machines. they don't have to defend themselves or their actions to these analysts or make the case for their stock in the face of queries from lesser minds. in short, they don't want to have to justify anything they've done beyond simply informing these overpaid jackals about their own supremacy.. these companies believe in the form of wall street guidance. the thing speaks for itself. i don't blame anyone, any management feels this way. going through thes

a look at apple. continuing to selloff, concerns about supply orders and the demand may be dwindling. liz: on the flipside, dell continued to move higher. continuing buyout offers, once again the stock has been on the move. comparing to what it was in 2000, not even close. nicole: over 52 weeks, over 2000, that is a long time ago. it really has been a dog. of almost 20% on the buyout. david: facebook was so excited, the internal search. guess what, they also got news they lost about 1.5 billion subscribers and the stock is plunging. nicole: it went back and forth, broke down below $30. the news came out. liz: there go the bells on this tuesday as we take a look and see how stocks are faring up. dow jones industrials. at 3:00 p.m. eastern, suddenly we hit the highs of the session pointing to the upside. the nasdaq can't quite make it. apple represents 10% of the nasdaq 100. down two to 3% the last couple of minutes so we are watching that very closely. david: facebook not helping the nasdaq either. let

apple issuing current quarter guidance below census. many firms cutting apple. here is what crime her to say about the company last week on his show, "mad money." >> of course, things can turn around in on a dime, my trust holds on apple can still dazzle. until then, the threats to the apple ecosystem are too great. the price of the goods too high, the ardor of the customer may be gown. all in all, a tough own, a tough hold, alas, a shame. >> jim, you sort of said it and added last night, don't let this stock become the eclipse that blinds you to everything else going on. >> you can't. the company's conference call was radically opposite of what everyone was thinking. and the company just kept going back to that mantra, listen, we have the best product. we don't really need to defend ourselves. and i think that what was happening was the analysts were viciously, viciously trying to figure out you can as the call was going on, what do you pay for a company with waning growth? what do you pay for a company not as loved by the customer anymore? the answer is we got

that's been hurting apple. one side in the market doesn't fit all except for apple. their stock has been trading positive for a while now. i think this is smarter. >> you mentioned the shares, mark. i want to bring it back to an investing standpoint. setting aside the run-up over the past few months, is this like buying apple at 12 or not? >> i think it's going to be a very wild and hairy ride for the stock. so i think our view is fundamentally for an investor, you want to wait until it settles down to build a position. if you look at valuation in terms of what the company can earn, i think it can get to about $19. but i think that will be the ceiling. i think it bounces around for some time. >> heins talking about this is the starting line, not the finish line. they will be up against the serious marketing dollars of nokia and apple and microsoft. how do you husband cash. >> i think it's really to push and advertise the product. it can't just come from r.i.m., it has to come from the carriers. verizon stepped forward with millions of dollars of advertising to really

52-week low on apple. it has lost $246 billion in market cap since its peak and exxon mobil is getting ready to suppla flchlt t as the all-time value leader. is that significant? would you buy apple or exxon mobil just based on the value of these stocks? is it significant to this market? >> i think it is. it is very interesting the overall reaction to the market, the leading stock over the last couple years, apple, down significantly and the overall market is continuing to go higher. i think that's the interesting topic we should be looking at. >> we'll talk again soon. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> a few seconds left. more now on the second hour of "the closing bell." >> stocks rallying again. the dow less than 2% away from its all time high. welcome back to "the closing bell" everybody and happy friday as well. i'm mandy drury coming back to the table. we'll also be hearing from maria in davos, switzerland. in the meantime let's look at how we finished the day that was here on the street with the dow up

. >> apple stock takes a plunge. it's something taking a bite out of innovation at the silicon valley giant. >>> plus. i'm here at the new sfja strzz center in san francisco. we'll go on a behind the scenes tour to find out what makes this place so groundbreaking. coming up. >>> good evening. welcome to "this week in northern california." it's been an eventful week with the governor's address from the state capital, emotions running high in oakland. not to mention a new one of a kind arts institution celebrating a grand opening in san francisco. we have much to get to. let's begin by introducing our panelists. joining me tonight, matthai kuruvila, "san francisco chronicle" reporter. jolie o'dell, of venturebeat.com. as well as john myers, kxtv political editor joining us from sacramento. governor jerry brown struck a confident tone on thursday, applauding lawmakers and voters for making tough decisions to balance california's budget. he also pushed for his priorities including education and regulatory reform. now, jo

we do own apple. we purchased apple shortly after they initiated their first dividend. and we like apple both for the intermediate and long-term and believe the story is intact. this is a secular growth area, talking about smart phones and tablets and apple is going to be a major part of this growing pie. sure, they have competition. but the best part about apple is compared to tech, let's say, in the late 90s is there's no valuation headwind. valuation at 10 times earnings, there abouts, even maybe a little bit less, is not a headwind to this stock. so we think you can comfortably use dips to add to positions and that's what we're going to be looking to do. david: today is certainly one of those dips. we will be talking a lot more with an analyst about apple coming up later in the show. chris let's go to specific picks. i rented an avis car this weekend. i rented a zip car last week and now they are both in the same company. it had a big pop today. you think it's an exciting company? >> yes, we have been involved in avis budget group for a number of years now. the stoc

. >> susie: weighing on the nasdaq today: apple. the stock got crushed, on word demand for the iphone 5 is slipping. the stock closed just shy of $502, losing almost 4%. in pre-market trading the shares briefly fell below $500, the first time in nearly a year. suzanne pratt reports. >> reporter: apple has been taking a big bruising. first, it was the earnings miss for the september quarter, the second straight. then, there's been growing speculation the tech innovator is losing its edge to competitors, particularly samsung with its popular galaxy smartphone. finally, today there were reports apple dramatically cut orders for iphone 5 components, due to weak demand. to be sure, apple has not confirmed soft sales with hard numbers. but, experts it would not surprise them if consumers were sour on iphone 5. >> it may be significant, we just came through the consumer electronics show and virtually all of the high profile phones that were introduced there had very large screens. some manufacturers like samsung have done very well with sc

so, we talk about getting long apple here, but broader picture, does the apple ecosystem that everybody raichs about, does that save them from becoming the 1980 version of sony where companies lose their cool factor? >> certainly, in the u.s., there's this lock in where people buy multiple apple products, but at the same time, you look at itunes, it's supposed to be a lock in but 50% use android. you realize most of the maps you use it are not apple apps. it's easy to make the transition from iphone to nexus without losing really anything unless you've bought lots of itunes content. that argument may work in the u.s., i'm not sure it works in the rest of the world. >> you mentioned microsoft when it comes to multiple, is that where you see apple going at this point? do you think that longer term, that's its destiny? >> so, if you take the view that the platform angle isn't that real, then it's a handset stock. you miss one product cycle and you lose a lot of market share, you have to take a big hit in one go. we've seen it at rim, samsung, multiple times in the past, sony. so, it's pret