where the little things mean everything. >>> hina you want to respond to something don just said. >> i agree with don. the best way to respond to terrorism is use the tools we have with our article three courts. i think that calls to treat either foreigners as different are unnecessary, ineffective, and irresponsible. that's what we did when we treated the acts of a fringe group after 9/11 as a global war. that's where we expanded it to and look where we've gotten, military commissions that don't work, that are an embarrassment, and allow alleged terrorists to claim they are warriors. >> we've decimated al qaeda, gone years without a successful attack. >> and one of the best tools we've had is through law enforcement, through the hundreds of terrorism prosecutions in our courts. >> when terrorism is on the table as a policy matter, right, no one ever argues for cost-benefit analysis, how much should we do. everyone says we should not tolerate a single death from terrorism. here's congressman peter king, essentially, making that argument, that kind of argument yesterday. >> i don't --

rethink possible. >>> hina you want to respond with something don just said. >> i agree with don. the best way to spontd to terrorism is use the tools we have with our article three courts. i think that calls to treat either foreigners as different are unnecessary, ineffective, and irresponsible. that's what we did when we treated the acts of a fringe group after 9/11 as a global war. that's where we expanded it to and look where we've gotten, military commissions that don't work, that are an embarrassment, and allow alleged terrorists to claim they are warriors. >> we've decimated al qaeda, gone years without a successful attack. >> and one of the best tools we've had is through law enforcement, through the hundreds of terrorism prosecutions in our courts. >> when terrorism is on the table as a policy matter, right, no one ever argues for cost-benefit analysis, how much should we do. everyone says we should not tolerate a single death from terrorism. here's congressman peter king, essentially, making that argument, that kind of argument yesterday. >> i don't -- my idea that the r

hina we are joined by shamsi. we wanted to have you here to talk about enemy combatants, what they are, why that definition is significant. he saw white house announcing yesterday that they do not plan to treat the boston marathon bombing suspects as an enemy combatant. let's take a step back and talk about what the term means. guest: the roots of the term come from the bush administration which sought to create a category of people that a thought violated -- that it fought violated the laws of war. what is less important than what the specific term means -- for those who are interested, the current definition is in the military commissions act of 2009 -- less important than the specific term is what others were trying to do when they said that the boston bombing suspect should be treated as an enemy combatant. they wanted him to be subjected to military custody in military interrogation and denied a lawyer. here, that shows you how far that argument goes astray. editorialork times" page was right to call it "reck

it's also what is happening to opinions of america in those specific countries, as hina says, perhaps somewhat boston has brought home the reality you cannot just conduct these wars and expect there to be -- there is no, quote magic bullet, no magic solution. the drones may be effective, may prevent us from having to put boots on the ground, but seem to also be undermining this american operation at large. >> the way i would always kind of -- the analogy i like to draw is think of the boston suspects or the bombers, think of, you know, potential attackers, they draw from a well of anti-american sentiment. what feeds that reservoir. if the united states and others want to try and certainly there are law enforcement tactics to curb or stop or prevent the terrorist attacks. other than the there is this reservoir they need to try to dry up. so what are the american foreign policy actions, the behaviors from other countries around the world that create that reservoir? one of the biggest, as i've seen, one of the biggest contributors is the drone strikes, the drone strikes in afghanistan, p

hina is with the aclu and democracy project. and cliff may, with a policy institute that focuses on terrorism and ideologies that drive terrorism. here are numbers to call if you like to talk about enemy combatant status. republicans 202-58 a-3881. democrats, 202-585-3880. independent calls, 282-585-3802. terry, independent caller, let's go to the lines to see what our callers have to say, go ahead, terry. >> caller: i wanted to make a comment that i read a report that these bombs were, that were used in boston were a little bit more, even though they were crude and, some way crude and how they, how they were made or used, that they were a little bit more sophisticated in the way the mechanism for trigger i know they don't know everything about the bombs but i understood, when they made them, people generally make these may have their hands blown off when they're making them and, i just find it interesting that these two young men had the capabilities of information. that i don't believe all of that information is readily availa

host: hina shamsi. guest: it is true u.s. citizens can take up arms against the united states and then they become what is called understood the laws of war belligerents. the problem here that we are talking about is extending and expanding the laws of war far beyond what is constitutionally permitted and permitted under the laws themselves. and i think charles was exactly right. what the suspect is accused of is terrorism. if we think of what timothy mcfay did or what was done in -- mcveigh did or what was done in the olympic park bombing, we didn't treat those tragedies as acts of war. we appropriately treated them as criminal acts that had to be investigated, prosecuted and appropriately punished. guest: we had an american citizen who was killed on the orders of president obama. did president obama commit a crime by doing that, violate the constitution by doing this? guest: actually, we have a lawsuit in which we are seeking to get answers from the administration about what standards they used around invoked when they kill

[applause] >> on tomorrow morning " washington journal," hina sham si and cliff may discuss the legal definition and history of the term and many combatants -- enemy combatants. then, lisa marie windsor examines the court-martial system. plus, your e-mails, phone calls and tweets. "washington journal" live, tuesday, at 7:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span, and right after, homeland security secretary janet napolitano testifies on immigration policy, speaking before the senate judiciary committee. you can see her comments live at 9:00 30 -- 9:30 a.m. eastern. >> tonight, a look at the boston marathon bomber and how it might affect immigration policy. c-e at 9:00 p.m. eastern, withs "first ladies -- mary todd lincoln."

don, hina, esther, home of "wake-up call." that's all for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, thank you very much. thanks to you at home for joining us on a day when honestly any one in about five different big, national, leave-the-news stories would have every network newscast to itself were it not for all the other big national lead-the-news stories that are breaking today, vying for that top of the news position. the national republican party today abandoned mark sanford, who used to be the governor of south carolina and was a presidential hopeful at one point. today, his party abandoned his effort to get back into office in congress. that kind of politics story might very well lead the national news, but not on a day like today. today we got arrests and a confession and at least an implicit explanation in the murder of those two prosecutors in kaufman county, texas. the assistant d.a. killed in january, the d.a. himself, and his wife killed in march, as of today, finally, we know who did it.

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. >> coming up on the next ashington journal," hina shsamsy of the american civil liberties union and cliff may discuss the legal definition and history of the term enemy combatant. former army judge colonel lisa marie windsor examines the military's court marshal system which prosecutes about 5,000 u.s. members annually. "washington journal" is live 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. a senate judiciary subcommittee is examming the constitutionality of using drones to target american terrorist suspects overseas. that's live tuesday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> c-span, created by america's cable companies in 1979. brought to you as a public service by your television provider. >> coming up next, c-span's " first ladies, influence and image" features mary todd lincoln, wife of abraham lincoln. and senator mike lee on issues of conservatism. then a discussion on how immigration laws have changed since 9/11. ♪ >> born in 1818 in lexington, kentucky, mary todd grew up and lived to see her husband issued the emancipation proclamation 45 years later. a mother of four sons, she witnessed t

one of the issues that raises is hina is moving asia to compete in a more international place. they are thinking of that, their education system that way as well. their education system is an asset of the state to make them more competitive over long term. it is not just making people happier and good citizens, it is about making them good competitors for the u.s. and the world. >> you don't think we do that? >> i think we actually shun thinking about education as a partnership between the government. don't think strategically about education as an economic issue and a national economic issue. there's a lot of partisanship about the federal role around education and, you know, what role we should have in terms of what we should test and etc. i think that core belief becomes more difficult and it is more challenged in a world where countries are competing at a different plane. >> so you're associated with the left side of the political spectrum. so let me ask you this question. >> obamacare, left -- >> you're on the right right now. >> that's true. >> would -- do you think that

>>hinas t only country wanting to be a permanent member. india and south korea has applied, and a number of european countries have applied. there is a relatively long list of countries that want to have a seat at the arctic council as permanent observers. still have to decide within the arctic council how we move forward in this respect. we of the reasons why it hesitate a bit is that the arctic council has turned out to be in the last 10 years an extraordinary successful instrument for cooperation. let's not forget that 25 years ago the nuclear confrontation in the united states and the soviet that was so overwhelming and most of us have been influenced by this cold war threat. and i've sometimes said to my american and russian friends, it would be interesting to add up how much expenditure both countries put into military buildup in the arctic from the 1950's until the 1990's. so, within a relatively short time, we have transformed the areahat was among the most militarized regions of the d intone of the most successful constructive exam

] [captioning performed by >>tional captioning institute] coming up on the next shamsigton journal" hina discussed the legal definition and history of the term enemy combatant. then colonel lisa marie windsor discusses the court-martial system. journal" is live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. today, homeland security secretary janet napolitano .estified on immigration policy it is the committee's third hearing on immigration since the senate so-called gang of eight released their proposed legislation. live coverage starting at 9:30 a.m. eastern, here unseat and. -- here on c-span. "the closinghor of of the american border" from "washington journal" this is 30 minutes. host: the boston marathon bombing is also having an impact on the immigration debate in the u.s. and some are drawing parallels to the way the 9/11 attacks changed the immigration debate in 2001 and 2002. edward alden is a senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. ted, i want to talk about the front page of the washington times. your reaction to how the bombing is clinging to the immigration debate? guest: we have

hina >> the relationship between china and iceland is in many ways an interesting example of playing, is gradually in my opinion, a constructive role in the world. that due to said the relationship between the melting of the arctic sea ice, the melting of the ice in my neighborhood as well, and the extreme weather events in china -- at the meeting that took , wee earlier today in china were the first country to sign a ,ree trade agreement with china the first european country to sign a free trade agreement with china. it was announced that we will continue our dialogue and .ooperation in the arctic the other major reason why china is interested in cooperation with iceland is our clean energy transformation, especially our geothermal transformation. iceland was in the early decades of my life dependent upon imported coal and oil. now for a number of decades, 100% of space heating has been geothermaland resources. now we are engaged in one of those agreements was signed this between thehina icelandic venture corporation so they can replace their systems with geothermal transformation. w

i think we can continue to build a strong relationship with .hina, with our differences and there are significant differences. but there are too many common interests for both our countries. and with why steady leadership, and i think the chinese have shown their leadership to the study, wise, careful, and the more we can exchange at every level, programs, especially military-to-military per grams, i don't know of a single -- military-to-military programs, i don't know of a single impact greater than building military- to-military relationships. the best example is egypt. i'm not sure things would have turned out the same in egypt over the last two years without that. you can't solve all the problems nor should you be expected to, but you can do an awful lot. and as i said in my remarks and no one in this room has heard this for the first time because you all live it and in your capacities as leaders, military leaders today, as valleys have been, but especially today, they are far more than military leaders. your diplomats. your psychologists in your mentors. your educators. your refe

hina is a huge market. and u.s. companies and all sorts of companies are benefiting greatly by participating in that arket. so apple historically had looked at china as sort of the factory of the world. so, apple -- computers, iphones, were assembled in china and sold in the u.s. and around the world. but what has happened, as with economic growth and greater prosperity in china, it has become a big market, and market -- end market. i think it is well over $20 billion of sales this year. it is the fastest growing market. some think it is the fastest market for smart phones in the world right now. so apple got a big percentage -- got a big stake in that market. and i think what you're going to see if foreign companies -- and there's a good number of u.s. companies and other foreign companies who got leadership positions, they are going to be under a lot of scrutiny. they are going -- under a lot of -- they are going to be held to high standards by regulators. i am not saying all of this is fair, but i will tell you w