he was pretty optimistic the nra would cooperate. >> i want to call our friends at nra and bring them into it. they have to be at the table. we all have to. i'm telling you, i believe this is a time for all of us to sit down and move in a responsible manner. thick they will. >> that was joe manchin speaking on this network december 17th, three days after the sandy hook massacre. here's what happened next, even as joe manchin was inviting them into the fold the nra was fighting background checks with all their might. in multiple public appearances wayne lapierre called it as an unworkable nightmare of bureaucracy offered up by public elites. joe manchin really wanted to bring nra to the table to work on background checks. he did. late last month, "politico" wrote about the talks and the fact that nra is working with manchin suggested some progress with the group. they would not talk about the talks with manchin but said the organization was strongly opposed to what they call criminalized transfers between two people calling it a non-starter. yesterday, a deal was struck and notably did

he was pretty optimistic the nra would cooperate. >> i want to call our friends at nra and bring them into it. they have to be at the table. we all have to. i'm telling you, i believe this is a time for all of us to sit down and move in a responsible manner. i think they will. >> that was joe manchin speaking on this network december 17th, three days after the sandy hook massacre. here's what happened next, even as joe manchin was inviting them into the fold the nra was fighting background checks with all their might. in multiple public appearances wayne lapierre called it as an unworkable nightmare of bureaucracy offered up by public elites. joe manchin really wanted to bring nra to the table to work on background checks. he did. late last month, "politico" wrote about the talks and the fact that nra is working with manchin suggested some progress with the group. they would not talk about the talks with manchin but said the organization was strongly opposed to what they call criminalized transfers between two people calling it a non-starter. yesterday, a deal was struck and notably d

was okay with this, nra lifetime senator joe manchin announcing the nra would be neutral on the background checks legislation he put forth today with republican senator pat toomey. the offices of the senator saying the nra was in the room watching over the negotiations on that legislation every step of the way. the other bipartisan legislation released on gun trafficking today from senators pat leahy and susan collins also announced today as having been agreed upon with the nra. and while the nra itself is maintaining its same old publicly hostile stance, even to the measures they were said to be involved with, hopes to the passage of the very modest reforms, hope for those passing rests now on the hope that these guys have had their rings kissed enough in the development of this legislation, that even though they are publicly hostile, they might not rear up to their full height in fighting these bills, and, therefore, maybe something might be able to be passed. and that is one way to think about this, one way to think about the power, right. the other way is to look up from the late '90s

the nra. i am in here as the director of the taskforce that just looked at the school safety issues, and lawrence, i am delighted to be here, but that introductory piece really misrepresented the background that led up to this taskforce and our findings. for example, philadelphia uses magnetometers for every high school student to go through, but they don't used armed school resource officers. we're not trying to change that. that's their prerogative. we are delighted with the security measures that they have in place. we want to help them there. you go out to los angeles, they choose a different model with armed school resource officers, about 300 of those in their unified school district. that's their prerogative there. and so our report makes recommendations that are useful for whatever model the schools adopt, but yes, if you're going to use a school resource officer, have greater training. if you're going to use armed school personnel, have 40 hours of training, make sure they're trained

the nra a 500. but the race and the national race and rifle association have chris murphy worked up. >> nascar and fox should have been more sensitive to the families and the community of newtown and stayed out of this debate. >> reporter: he is upset nascar signed off on the nra sponsorship negotiated by the texas motor speedway, especially now, when gun control legislation is about to be debated. >> they could have found another sponsor for this race. they could have waited until after the debate to have the nra sponsor a race. just really poor timing. >> reporter: nascar says the nra began brokering the deal with the speedway before the newtown shootings. after 26 children and teachers were killed, nascar donated money to newtown. and at the daytona 500 in february, race car driver michael waltrip won praise for painting his number 26 car in tribute to victims. last month, the nra 500 airing on fox was announced. >> gives the impression that fox and nascar are endorsing the nra's position. >> rep

nra are not registered to vote. so they got out the vote for many states, virginia, florida, and others, and this was seen as a great opportunity to boost not only the gun vote but the conservative vote. so they were, you know, they were on the priority list for receiving money. >> michael: peter stone, we have a little bit of trouble there but you made your point. what we're see something how they're crafting legislation the money is going to these groups. they're crafting legislation and that hurts the average american because they can't break that wall. these are funding with they can fund anonymously through different parts of the group nra. peter stone is a reporter for mother jones and we thank him for being with us. we go from protecting the gun lobby to protecting the rights of all americans. today democratic senator tom carper announced his support. now there is just seven democrats who don't support gay marriage ticktock, senators. but on the other side of the aisle things are different. the republican of

the nra as we've been talking about, all three of us mentioned the power of the nra. not just in the scoring but the money they provide and the money they provide to potential challengers for not just republican members of the senate or the house but also democrats. >> and quickly, i want to ask you. the celebration and the democrats and those looking for gun change hold off, because what we may see as a result of the amendment. what have you heard behind the scenes? >> there is a lot of concerns with democrats about poison pills as they call them on the hill. amendments that can be brought up and offered by republican that's could get enough support from conservative democrats. and something on concealed carry that would require states to honor the concealed carry laws in other states. that would be if that passed with the help of some democrats, led by republicans, that would kill the prospects in the senate, given that it is democratic controlled. not only on an amendment by amendment basis. but in the end, getting off the bill to a majority vote will be extraordin

nra wins when the americans are distracted. it's tragic that we have the boston bomb, and the poisoned letters, and people could have brought more pressure to bear if there hadn't been these other factors going on this week. i think the real political future for gun control is out in the states. california is probably next in line for a major gun-control effort like we've seen in maryland new york, and colorado. i think the nra and the gun lobbyists have proven to be near invincible in washington but they're much more vulnerable out in the states. if you can string together enough states you might get some real progress after having been frustrated in dc. >> john: tim, just to clarify if this atrocity hadn't happened in botch you boston, you don't think this would have failed? this would have failed anyway, correct? >> i think it would have been a tougher fight. it's just sick but i think people have been able to duck this fight and the political consequences of blocking this legislation because there is so much attention focus

>> ask the nra. >> you have the nra lining up against background checks. >> they're against background checks. >> it is not safe, it is not smart. >> it is idiotic. >> this is where we are with guns in this country. >> they still want us to do something. >> should be a political no brainer. >> that's just common sense. >> if you think it is too early to talk about 2016. >> to be back again is a privilege. >> hillary clinton's return to public life last night. >> when i became secretary of state we put women on the agenda. >> hillary clinton rested and ready. what happened to six months off. >> cue the beginning of borderline absurd coverage. >> there's no woman like hillary clinton. >> she shared the stage with a potential future rival. >> everybody is wondering what she's going to do. >> 2016 is a long time from now. >> three years out, don't know what could happen. >>> today, president obama took his push for gun and ammunition control to denver just a few miles from the aurora, colorado movie theater where a gunman fired 76 rounds of ammunition, murdering 12, injuring 58. using weap

the nra winning. in the battle of president obama versus the nra looks like victory going to the guns. not one piece of federal legislation passed since newtown. no limit on magazine capacity. no nothing. not even background checks. today jay carney brought up the issue of background checks. >> i think most americans believe it makes absolute sense to check the criminal record of someone before they're allowed to purchase a gun. >> he's right. 90% of americans agree with what jay just say. literally 90%. but yet, there's been no legislation touching background checks. so, why is the victory for now gone to the nra? jennifer reuben blogger for "the washington post."com and mark glaze, director of mayors against illegal guns. good to have both of you. jennifer, can the nra declare victory? here we are. public support for gun protection is plunging. no legislation passed talt federal level. >> i think we are in about the third quarter and the nra is ahead by a couple touchdowns but the game's not over ye

congratulations to the nra. nbc's kristen welker is traveling with the president, and she joins us now from denver. kristen, good afternoon. the president has made it plain that however effective the nra may be in silencing members of congress and preventing any meaningful legislation on guns, he will not be silenced and he will continue to campaign on behalf of the victims of gun violence both in colorado as in today, and indeed around the country. that's right, isn't it? >> reporter: i think that's absolutely right, martin. in fact, on monday, president obama will be traveling to connecticut where, as you mentioned, today they are poised to pass some of the stiffest gun laws in the nation. so there are sort of two parts to this strategy. president obama going out, getting outside of the d.c. bubble, traveling to different states to make his case. but specifically targeting these states that have recently enacted or introduced different laws like colorado. as you know, colorado is a state that has been ravaged

. >> part of this is the nra. part of it is a legacy in this country. politicians being afraid of this issue. and them not catching up with to the population like colin said. also, you have to think about 2014 here, all of the people being polled won't go to the polls. fact of the matter, the people who will go to the polls are probably more likely, i think to be rabid about an issue and so if this is an issue that's going to drive them to the polls, more politicians perceive those who want a sensible gun control will go to the polls. that's why you see, you know, democratic senators being an obstacle in the situation in many respects, some republicans. so i think that's the real issue here is that the mobilization among the public has not reached washington yet. >> john: you look at what happened last week in this country with marriage equality. if the people lead, the leaders will follow. people were for it before barack obama came out for it as well. i want to ask you sam then you, colin how do you grade the pr

is there any group in the united states less likable than the nra? lee camp. >> even though i'm not a fan i think they get a reunion tour. >> carkara. >> i would say any airline that tries to charge you for carry on carry-on luggage. >> that's loathsome. >> amy goodman, who is worse than the nra. >> maybe at this point i can't think of anybody. >> john: yes, wallet me ask you this, maybe you're someone like the majority of americans who support the right to bear arms but feel creepy about the weapons creed who run the nra and keeping americans safe from any gun laws to keep americans safe. you're not alone. loving the second amendment while opposing the nra is very much as natural as loving jesus but opposing the west baptist churn. baptist church. there is quite a bit in common as the christians of west borough, west borough is to christianity as jesus was to inbreeding. they go around the country holding protests at funerals of anyone who doesn't stone gay people to death. they don't want to hate gays. they just do it because god commands them. it'

as recently as 1999, the nra supported background checks. now the group is opposed and made it difficult for senate democrats to build support beyond 50 plus democrats. new york senator chuck schumer has been searching for a republican partner to sign on to compromise legislation. after oklahoma's tom coburn refused to sign on to any bill that required record keeping for private gun sales, he said no success and republican opposition to the background check measure in the democratic bill is solidifying. >> we do need to strengthen the background check system. but universal background checks i think is a bridge too far for most of us. >> i vote against it. this idea of private individuals transferring their weapons and having to go to get the background check makes no sense. >> will their bill pass the senate? >> yeah. >> i don't think so. not at 60 votes. and if it does pass the senate, it certainly won't pass the house. >> senate majority leader harry reid, a pro gun rights democrat, endorsed by the nra in the past, released a tough online

in this case, new recommendations from the nra's school shield program and a pitch for the nra to train school personnel to carry firearms. yes, the head of the task force, former congressman asa hutchinson said today that a whole range of weaponry could be appropriate. >> everything from a side arm to shotgun to ar-15 in the car of a school officer. the presence of an armed security personnel in a school adds a layer of security and diminishes response time that is beneficial to the overall security. >> yes, you were hearing him then. their report emphasized that anyone carrying a firearm in a school should undergo a thorough background check. despite the nra's clear opposition to expanded background checks in general. mark matioli, the father of a boy killed at newtown, was at the press conference, saying he supports solutions for safer schools. >> this is recommendations for solutions. real solutions that will make our kids safer. and that's what we need. >> now, making our kids safer is something that all of us can agree on, but while the nra maintains only a good guy with a gun can

. >> the nra has acted shamefully. >> this bill only managed to win 54 votes. >> if the nra didn't score this, we would have had 15 more votes. >> is there any difference between sandy hook and boston other than the choice of weapon? >> the president and first lady are already on their way to attend an interfaith service. >> every one of us has been touched by this attack on your beloved city. >> how can a good god allow bad things to happen? >> we are are shaken, we are are not foresaken. >> god's love will yet have the last word. >> we will have accountability without vengeance. vigilance without fear. >> they picked the wrong city to do it. not here in boston. >>> tonight, the fbi has a new most wanted list. these guys. the fbi is asking for your help in finding two suspects described as armed and extremely dangerous. during a press conference earlier this evening, investigators put out this video of the two men, both wearing caps and dark jackets, walking through the marathon crowd on monday. special agent in charge richard de sonia said the nation is counting on information provided

that the reaction from the nra. heritage action, group led by former tea party senator jim deminted this to say, quote, lawmakers will not get a pass on any bill that infringes on the constitutional rights of the american people. now from the gun compromise to what president obama is calling a budget compromise. the president unveiling today his proposed budget plan to 2014 at the white house. >> for years, the debate in this town has raged between reducing our deficits at all costs and making the investments necessary to grow our economy. this budget answers that argument because we can do both. >> the president's's budget is drawing criticism from both the left and right. >> the president's budget never comes to balance. every family has to balance its budget. washington should as well. >> he said that he would not cut social security. >> we want the president to remember what he said and not go back on his word. >> joining me now with reaction to the day's event is minnesota congressman keith ellison. thank you s

we know 74% of nra members approve of. four months after 20 kids were murdered against a wall in a small school in connecticut. very strange country. if you can't over time, put enough pressure on those people to decide something different. >> john: our foreign friends are scratching their heads at us right now. the president spoke movingly yesterday. do you feel he and the democratic party move fast enough? was there more that barack obama could have done? >> it is hard to say. you just took the united states congress 500 days and even more than to re-authorize the violence against women act. something that already existed. something that is about as uncontroversial because it is about helping women against violence. congress doesn't move very fast. if you introduced a bill ten days after the shooting, could you have passed it? maybe. but why speculate about something that's practically impossible in washington. >> john: you were quoted today as saying mayors and supporters of survivors and outraged citizens will be letti

the nra loves it. the treatly will be killed in the senate where anti-gun senators are echoing the false claims that this will affect gun owners in the u.s. that's a lie. get used to it. are the senators really willing to put the will of gun lobbyists over our national security again? east lane? >> two things to say. one is i think it is time to build a very large wooden basketball player on wheels and present it to kim jong-un. that's number one. >> john: apparently dennis rodman is a chamberlain. >> i think he thought he was meeting obama. number two to the nra, if this is my camera. we're getting tired of prying your guns out of your cold, dead hands. >> john: tina? >> the u.n. just feeds into a conspiracy theory that, spoiler alert, the jews are behind it. by one world government trying to take your guns. and so this really -- like this is a dog whistle to gun nuts. and so senators who are feeding into this kind of crazed conspiracy are of course, going to put our national security above our nation

the nra statement is a lie. and i am ashamed of chris cox this morning that he would, for whatever reason, i won't even -- i won't even try to speculate as to why he felt it necessary to lie about what was in this bill. but he did. so the nra, unfortunately, to the very end, from the morning we found out that 20 children were slaughtered and six educators were slaughtered at sandy hook until last night, the nra has acted shamefully, putting out violent video games that 4-year-old kids could play with guns, making horrific statements. the nra is just absolutely behaved shame loessly and they will, of course, pay a cost for this. they will pay it over time. maybe not this year and maybe not next, but they will pay a cost because this battle, mika, is not over. in fact, i got bad news for the senators that were cowarding and running away from reporters who they were asked how they would vote on this bill. i make a guarantee, this fight has just begun and it's going to keep going because there are 90% of us, we are

the nra. he meant expanding it to include more people into the national instant check system. asa hutchinson made it clear those were his personal views not speaking for the nra. just want to update you on that. let's discuss what is going on a little more. ari fleischer is joining us the former bush press secretary. also donna brazile the democratic strategist. both cnn contributors. what do you make of this whole issue of expanding background checks? ari, first to you. >> well, it all depends on the whens and the wheres and the hows. if you are talking about a grandfather's right to give a rifle or gun to his grandson waunt to do a background check on the family. i don't think anybody is going to go for that. if you're talking about gun show loopholes that would allow for a broader check i think people are trying to figure out a way to be for that and it looks pretty good to do that. what he said is very subject to interpretation without knowing exactly what he was referring to. by what it w

the nra lobby is still against it the nra membership is for background checks and it's like, the nra by the way used to be for background checks before they were against it. >> your former colleagues in congress, how do you pry them apart from the nra? i do see some evidence that the state level democrats at least are being peeled apart from the nra. it's becoming more of a partisan and that was one of their strengths, they were bipartisan. but what is it going to take for members of congress to look at all of these deaths and say okay, let's have a solution. >> there were frustrating as an american citizen to see what's going on. i will tell you that thank goodness we have mayor bloomberg who is a game-changer. mayor bloomberg is putting democrats on notice, it used to be the nra was the only game in town. let me tell you something, i'm going to go to the grave as a broke man, mayor bloomberg said, because i think this issue which is crippling our communities all across america, over 1,000 people have been killed by guns since newtown, over 1,000. it's an epidemic. we need to act. t

it is different from the nra. someone like harry reid, in 1993 he voted against the ban on so-called assault weapons. 005 he voted for legislation that would shield the gun manufacturers from liability. he has been described as a strong proponent of the second amendment but he got an f minus from your group. can you explain? > we are looking at other ways the second amendment can be infringed. we spoke about obamacare. the number of votes that occurs, we added those end. we added one that was abetted in obamacare. the same thing with political speech. when congress says she cannot communicate beyond a certain amount of money the first amendment stars out saying congress shall make no law. they have made plenty of laws. they are unconstitutional. we are being gagged by the very people we should be able to expose easily as much money as we can raise. >> we have time for a couple more questions. if legislation does not make it to the floor of the senate on the federal level, some states are moving ahead with stricter

and the nra flipped its position, the nra flipped its position so they did. it shows who they serve. >> it is so transparent. it is so transparent. >> bill: how could the nra want us to vote on it this year. >> the nra. shame on them. orrin hatch. mitch mcconnell. jeff sessions. richard shelby. chuck grassley and mike grapple. so when the nra said it is okay to vote yes, they did. when the nra said vote no, they did. we say jump. you say how high. >> a stream of comments on twitter by the way at bpshow, please follow us there. you could play along with the show. lots of people stand with joey, our last caller. they're just as upset as he is. john also says when someone gets a gun from a gun show or a person and does a massacre, these politicians will be called to account. and sam says the senate in its present form is broken, not capable of serving the american people. find us at bpshow on twitter. >> bill: again the argument that this is government gone too far is just so -- it doesn't even pass the laugh test. we have background checks and we have since 199

between ther states, they organized the nra. a hundred years later when your organize not to help the government but to oppose the government because of the growing flood of legislation we were facing. attitudes from the very beginning. how would you say you are different? >> we have maintained a position opposed to the background checks from the get go. the nra now agrees with us on that. we are very happy that is the case. it makes it much more likely that we will prevail in stopping the background check from getting put on the books. >> how would you say your group works with the nra? >> we pretty much set our own forces. it is nice to know that we're very much on the same page. >> they sent a letter to senate saying last week improvements in the national instant check system. did they offer your group a chance to sign non? >> they knew we were opposed to the system altogether. last week we got a copy of the lesser which goes out to anybody -- of the letter which goes out to anybody he was using internet access to do a backgr

have the nra sitting there, all people on all sides of the gun issue. >> have the nra sitting there, which then confirms exactly what we've been hearing about what happened two nights ago. while it was clear from the outset the nra would not support the bill, the question was, would they oppose it? well, now we've got an answer. being at the table did not stop the nra from releasing this letter it sent to senators after dinner last night. "the nra is unequivocally opposed to s. 649. in addition, the nra will oppose any amendments offered to. 649 that restrict fundamental second amendment freedoms, this includes the misguided compromise proposal drafted by joe manchin, pat toomey, and chuck schumer. votes on all anti-gun amendments or proposals will be considered in nra's future candidate evaluations." they say they were technically not opposing the bill, just calling it misguided, and said that it would score anti-gun amendments. and some senate democrats are trying to claim that didn't necessarily include the manchin/toomey compromise. this morning on "morning joe," toomey and manch

also this week the nra opposed a u.n. treaty that restricts arm sales to governments and groups that commit war crimes. why? because any restriction could eventually restrict the u.s. gun owner and that treaty had overwhelming worldwide support passing 154 nations, 154 countries, to three. the nra found itself in the esteemed company of those three countries, iran, north korea and syria. that's our new crowd. ron reagan is a radio talk show host, msnbc contributor, former mayor of san francisco. mayor brown, having run a city, you know this issue of safety, public safety. the strange nra thinking is you can't let a teacher or an armed guard, a retiree from the police force, for example, work in a school unless they've had a thorough background check and you have to have a regular recheck, not just the first time they get hired. you have to go back and recheck and make sure they have kept their nose clean and yet if you say that about a typical gun purchaser, don't ask nothing. no questions. given the guy the gun. that's t

the nra 500. the national rifle association is sponsoring a major nascar sprint cup race for the first time. eddy is president of the texas motor speedway. >> demographically it's a great fit. any product that you have as a sponsor you look to see is it going to match up in this one certainly does. >> reporter: the texas race has historically involved guns. the driver who wins the time trials on the first day known as the pole winner gets a shotgun. the race winner receives two six shooters and celebrates by firing them using blanks. he says the nra deal was in the works prior to the shootings of 20 children and six adults at sandy hook elementary school last december. long before the current proposals in congress to strengthen background checks for gusenator chris murphy sees political ma fiving and the timing of the nra's first ever sponsorship of a major race. >> we're going to be debating a background checks bill next week that's supported by 90% of the american public but the nra opposes it.

the same thing that the nra fought so strenuously. also this week, the nra opposed a u.n. treaty that restricts gun sales to groups that commit war crimes. why? because any restriction could eventually restrict the gun owner passing 154 nations, 154 countries to three and the nra found itself in the esteem courts. iran, north korea, and syria. that's our new crowd. ron reagan is a radio talk show host and msnbc contributor. mayor brown, having run for the city, you know about public safety. the strange nra thinking is you can't let a teacher or armed guard or retired police officer work in the school protecting the student body unless they've had a thorough background checks and you have to have a recheck to make sure they kept their nose clean and yet if you say that about a typical gun purchaser, don't ask nothing. no questions. give the guy the freaking gun. that's the way they want to do it. guns on demand like you're buying a hershey bar. that's it. it's a hershey bar. i think i'd like one. i'm going to try that. background check? are you crazy? that's the hideous arg

it is not the nra. it is the remmingtons, the bush masters that pour the money into the nra. that's what's buying congress. >> sharon, let me bring you in. a video was put out by harry reid and it shows republicans supporting gun control measures right after newtown. >> all of us, republicans and democrats have recognized that we need more effective and broader background checks. >> i think there is discussion or at least chatter about strengthening and improving the background checks. >> i want to take it beyond discussion and charter comfortable we get you on the record saying you think that will likely pass through congress, the idea of universal background check? >> and it is something you could vote for? >> i think it is a reasonable step forward. >> a reasonable step forward. jeff flake who was on "meet the press" just this weekend saying more effective and broader background checks could be something that he would support as well. what happened? >> right, well i think the further we are removed from the newtown tragedy, the further this issue is in the rear view mirror

as with the nra does every day. i didn't say that. the nra said that. what i'm saying is that if that is the case, then we ought to be able to come together to create some common sense legislation that is effective and efficient. we will bel that able to do that. we're just going to have to wait and see. >> i was wondering if you could tell us about that legislation that would put restrictions on ammunitions and magazines. thes you know, i think leader of the senate, harry reid, has said that he doesn't know whether he has the votes to do -- to get that regularization -- to get that passed. he has opened the door for that to be put forth as an amendment. i personally would love to see limits on magazine clips. an assault weapons. -- and assault weapons. at the same time, i want to make sure that we get something done. i want to go back to what i said earlier. we can argue this, and argue that, and do nothing. do absolutely nothing. i think we need to be careful with that. , to her credit, senator feinstein has done a phenomenal job. i have tremendous an

i said, you know, i can't take credit for this for the nra, and the nra can't take credit, but the spire second amendment community -- entire second amendment community and the sports community can take credit. because we live in an era, and people will talk to you about how american culture is deteriorating on one front and another. but in terms of the second amendment, the american culture has changed over the last few decades for the better. if you had asked somebody in 1968 after the passage of the gun control act of 1968 under lyndon johnson's administration or two years later under rich around nixon's administration when his attorney general proposed the confiscation of all side arms by the early 908s, if you -- 1980s, if you had suggested then that you and i would have the rights under the second amendment that we have today, people on both sides of the aisle would have laughed at you. we have those rights because we stood up and demanded those rights, because we organized. the congress today is not doing what the president wants it to do on second amendment issues because thousan

tim in illinois is an nra member. hi tim. >> caller: good morning. >> stephanie: good morning. >> caller: the president said put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. gun control has been turned into gun safety legislation. i've heard that on bill press and on your show and probably start hearing it on msnbc and everywhere else. how do you negotiate with people that want total gun bans? how do you do that? >> well, i guess you would say shoot them. >> caller: come on now that's ridiculous. >> jim! >> stephanie: he's engaging in hyperbole to prove a point. >> caller: i would like to debate the issue and say cut background checks, we have that in illinois. it doesn't hurt anybody's ability to own a gun. >> stephanie: tim again you're starting with a straw man. jim went immediately to hyperbole. who wants to take away all of the guns? nobody does. >> caller: i would have to say feinstein said mr. and mrs. america turn in your guns. i would say the person buying the assault weapons ban is -- >> that's not realistic. sh

the nra said that. if that is the case we should be able to come together and create some common-sense legislation that is effective. i'm hoping we will be able to do that. we will have to wait and see. >> could you tell us about the status of legislation to put restrictions on am unises and magazines. > as you know, the leader of the senate has said that he does not know if he has the votes to do what he needs to get that legislation up. he says he has opened up a door for it to be put before as an amendment. personally, i would love to see limits on magazine clips and assault weapons. but at the same time i want to make sure that something gets done. we can argue this and argue hat. and we would do absolutely nothing. we have to be absolutely careful of that. to her credit, senator feinstein has done a phenomenal job and i have tremendous admiration for er and her efforts, but at the same time i think what is happening is that they have a determination and we will have to see how it goes. > in the bac

the nra is powerful if the nra has the issues behind them. i was one of these people -- you know this. grover norquist is the most dangerous man in the white house. no, it's not grover but the idea grover has embraced no taxes. the same thing with the nra. second amendment rights. yes, so many of us support second amendment rights. it is the idea, though, that the nra represents and when they are only representing 7% of the american people on a particular issue and you get all of this money coming from outside groups, you're going to lose. they are going to lose. i'm just surprised they weren't smart enough to get out of the way of its rein. >> three words you'll remember. cop killer bullets. remember they were against cop killer bullets and then finally said, man, this is like -- it's not -- >> right. >> this is -- they -- look. they going to have a hard time backing off of this because they have got a lot of skin in the game right now. lapierre and those guys have to be thinking what they are going to do because they can't afford to lose. >

so the bushmaster and the smith and westons and the server capitalists, they fund the nra, the nra does everything they say they should do and as a result our u.s. senate can't even take a vote in support of uniform background checks for criminals. i mean this is so outrageous. what they basically did is say that we're limiting the bill to background checks at gun shows and on the internet, but in 33 states, prove gun dealers can sell guns undetected to criminals, and that's legal. and they couldn't even pass that legislation. so we need to win back our democracy, which is outrageously destroyed by special there's money and we saw first hand what congress is willing do. they're willing to continue to take nra and gun industry blood money and ignore the fact that 87% of americans die from guns every day. this bill was willfully lacking. it didn't even include a magazine limitation on the number of rounds and it didn't include military style weapons or safe storage. it didn't do anything to stop the next newtown-type massacre. we've got to throw these bums out in the next election, and if

while there may not be enough to defeat the nra, the nra does not have the skill to alter itself anymore. >> i will call your attention to the behind the current -- curtain column from "politico" on friday. the newtown family several against staff only meetings. they will not do them. they insisted on sitting down with the senators themselves. they are mostly nonpolitical, but quite accomplished in their own fields. they are a unique moral authority to prod senate action. you saw joe machin's -- joe manchin's reaction. >> i did. but that is no way to legislate. the idea is we have to do something. no, that is not how you legislate. we have a 10-year ban on exactly what feinstein and others are demanding. we had it in place for the mid 1990's for a decade. the study commissioned by the department of justice showed it had no effect. that is the issue. >> it was not studied -- >> it said it had no significant effect. >> what the study said there was no causal relationship shown one way or the other between an assault weapons ban, one way or the other. >> that means it had no effect. it is n

or whether they have the guts to take on the nra. and that character issue seems to be resinating in a way i think i didn't think the policy issue would. >> we thought that would pass easy a few months after sandy hook. i think what the american people are discovering is their representatives are more beholden and more loyal to an industry association the nra which represents gun makers than they are to the constituents' health and safety. and i think that makes constituents angry. >> what is changeable here? was it the attention of the president? was it the president's calling people out on the day it failed which i think is in a really fascinating way captured everybody's attention and imagination. he didn't let it go down to defeat without sort of putting a lantern on it and saying look at what they just did. do you that's playing a role here? >> i think the president's really important, but i think that a lot of politicians overestimate the power of the nra. we've consistently found in our national polling that voters by about a

we support the nra. we invited the nra into our negotiations over this legislation. but we do not believe that nothing should be done to try to stop what happened in newtown from happening to someone else's kids. we do not believe that nothing can be done and nothing should be done. and led by that measure from those two a rated nra conservative senators, today, the u.s. senate voted on gun reform. the common wisdom was that it could never happen and today it happened. look at this. tommie christopher went through the vote today and noticed it was 21 senators with a ratings or better from the nra, 21 senators rated top shelf by the nra who were among the majority, among those who voted to break the filibuster. it's actually 22 senators if you count everybody with an a plus rating like senator roger wicker of mississippi. his state suffered a horrific school shooting in the 1990s. roger wicker voted to break the filibuster even though he has an a plus rating and it goes on like senator tom coburn of oklahoma and jeff flake of arizona. republican state lawmakers answer

that was even one step too far for the nra. what they were also doing was drawing everybody into the debate. come on in. then we'll show you what we can do. then they put the hammer down on this vote that kasie's talking about where they said, yes, we're scoring this one. we're going to hold you accountable for this one. that's one of the main reasons -- >> that's politically. not that they're the good guys, they're not. but that's a good sign of smart politics. otherwise if they had said let's score the debate, these guys would look like real bad guys. >> they would look -- they would look like they were afraid. >> go ahead and vote, but we're voting against you. >> that's exactly what they do. >> kasie, let's go through some cases. i'm always amazed by john mccain. there's a good john mccain, not so good john mccain. let's go to the good john mccain. he's really the only red stater of his party to cross the aisle and vote with basically gun safety people. and he's from arizona. what do you know about that? >> and one of the o

his long-term history with the nra is not good. the nra opposed him in his 2010 campaign. this is a guy that almost, you know, lost his primary in 2010. has to be fearing that for the future. and so i sort of see that it worked there. look at pat roberts and there's always this civil war in the republican party in kansas. and pat -- conservative sides led by sam brownback, the governor is very much winning now. and pat roberts, just a few weeks ago got the knee-jerk reactions. it seems to me if you are thinking about 2014 in sam brownback's kansas, you know, this is where you are going to be. >> i think that -- they are looking at that primary and that may be drive something of their decisions. i think that the bigger picture cannot be ignored. you know, in 2014, these people will be facing a voter and in a general election. and i think voters are smart. i think -- i think the ground has shifted. we know that between now and 2014, you know, doing the math, americans are smart. there will be 19,000 more gun deaths between now and 2014. americans know -- we will remember tha

while there may not be enough to defeat the nra, the nra does not have the skill to alter itself anymore. >> i will call your attention to the behind the current -- curtain column from "politico" on friday. the newtown family several against staff only meetings. they will not do them. they insisted on sitting down with the senators themselves. they are mostly nonpolitical, buquite aomplhed the own fields. they are a unique moral authority to prod senate action. you saw joe machin's -- joe manchin's reaction. >> i did. but that is no way to legislate. the idea is we have to do something. no, that is not how you legislate. we have a 10-year ban on exactly what feinstein and others are demanding. we had it in place f theid 1990's for a decade. the study commissioned by the department of justice showed it had no effect. that is the issue. >> it was not studied -- >> it said it had no significant effect. >> what the study said there was no causal relationship shown one way or the other between an assault weapons ban, one way or the other. >> that means it had no effect. it is no way to legisl

>> well, the american people, and even nra members, don't align with the leadership of the nra in regard to this issue. the american people by over 90% want background checks. nra members by 85% i believe it is want background checks, and i don't think that you're going to create a scorecard or a grade that's going to convince the american people criminals and the dangerously mentally ill should have guns. and if you don't want them to have guns, you've got to have background checks. that's the first line of defense. and we know for a fact that has stopped both dangerously mentally ill people as well as criminals from buying guns, and we need to continue those efforts in order to make sure our communities are safer places and that law-abiding citizens can continue to have their guns for their hunting, shooting, and self-protection purposes. >> congressman mike thompson, head of the house task force on gun control. sir, thanks for making time for me. >> thanks so much. >> absolutely. i want to bring in our power panel. msnbc center victoria defrancesco soto, karen finney and republican st