but the misuse of the irs. the irs, whether you like them or not, whatever your position may be, they have to be sackery sank. there has to be some confidence immediately. not some long, drawn-out hearing but a focused investigation by special counsel, free of conflicts, in order to restore the confidence people have. otherwise tax code doesn't work. >> 16,000 irs agents coming. did you know that? >> oh, yeah. >> 16,000. >> you're going to see that on campaign posters and campaign ads. look, republicans have struggled for so long to come up with an argument that makes sense and now they can say the irs is dysfunctional, it's playing politics. >> and they won't be even-handed. you're asking the irs to regulate obamacare, tax hikes, and mandates, which could mean regulating the very people they were just attacking and coming after. in other words, tea party groups -- guys -- might not want to pay the tax. are they going to be fair-mindeded? do we think the irs after what they have done has a chance? >> not in the

office at the irs. abc political director rick klein reports us. abc news broke that story tonight. who is she? >> sarah hall ingram and she was in charge of the whole commission that takes care of the tax exempt groups. they are the ones overseeing the whole division in cincinnati that was targeting tea partyers. she was in charge of it during the entire period. she's been in the new job about a week. the guy who took her place in that job, joseph grant, he's actually -- they announced his resignation today. he would be retiring in a couple weeks anyway and looks like he's taking the fall for something that happened on his watch. >> he was only there eight days and he's shoved out the door. this woman, now her job is very controversial, obviously under the spotlight with those groups being targeted. but now this other job, what's the other job she has being in charge of obamacare? >> obamacare has a lot of tax implications and the irs has opened up a new office just to make sure the implementation goes

the irs, very good. and you were appointed by then president bush, is that correct? >> yes, correct. >> and you state in your report that no one outside the irs was involved in this political targeting of not-for-profit organizations is that correct? >> that is the finding of this particular audit, sir. >> your audit, your findings are no outside groups were involved, correct. >> of this particular, yes, as of now that is our conclusion. >> mr. george, who was the last presidentially appointed irs commissioner. >> it was douglas shulman. >> douglas shulman, correct. >> yes, correct. >> appointed by then president george w. bush, is that correct? >> that's correct, sir. >> and mr. shulman was commissioner when these improper and outrage just activities that both sides of the aisle recognize as being outrage just and improper, when they occurred, is that correct? >> yes it is. >> mr. george, prior to commissioner shulman, the last political head or political appointee of the irs was mr. mark everson, is th

that this irs ig investigation was going on? >> that's what the treasury department said and that's what i'm telling you. >> chris: the rise of the tea party, the application for tax exempt group was a big point in the wake of the citizens united ruling by the supreme court, a big issue for democrats. in september of 2010, max baucus, the democrat chair of senate finance called on the irs to investigate groups applying for tax exempt status. in 2007, senators urged the irs to beef up scrutiny. dan, weren't the marching orders pretty clear? you had a number of democrats, groups applying for tax exempt status, and you -- >> look at what the independent general said in the report, to congress on friday. there was no outside influences, other than this came directly from the irs. two, that was not necessarily based on political motivation. that's what the independent inspector general said. >> chris: you say "not necessarily based on." >> he said this was a management issue, not political motivation. >> chris: except the irs said so

no one will escape the bony grip of the irs. i am the author of the bill it repeal obama care, that is an important bill and got through the house of representatives and i am chair of the tea party caucus. it was not only the tea party targeted by the obama administration through the irs, it was also christians and those who support israel and aspect- debt can conservatives and tea partiers. and this is an instance where political oppons of the administration are punished and the alloys of the administration were begin award and fast tracked. we should be worried. now a now national database is about to be created that hold our sensitive and personal information, our health care and the irs will be the enforcer of health care. it is reasonable to ask. >> and if i am not mistaken, they will decide how much companies are required to carry how much in health care. and they get fined with the enforce status and drive political groups out of business? >> you have stated the concerns of the american people. i used to work as attorney

interference in the irs. i will take every step that i can to make sure that the management structure and the way the irs conducts its business is set up in a way to prevent this from happening in the future. i have already had that conversation with the new acting commissioner who takes over tomorrow. he has a very short time to identify who should be accountable, how to get to the bottom of how the management and communication systems broke down, and to look systemically and what other steps need to be taken. i will not cross that line into the administration of the tax system because the cure could be worse than the disease. we need to make sure there's no political involvement of the administration and the management of the irs is the responsibility of the treasury secretary. it has to be within the irs and apart from politics. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. one of the issues raised by the report is the systemic risk potentially caused by the default of relying on -- what specific policy or regulat

the irs cannot access your medical files, is that true? >> correct. >> they cannot find out your private medical information. >> that is correct. totheir job in obamacare is simply collect paid financial information on which a determination is made on whether somebody can get a subsidy for their premium. is that correct? >> it is not a fascist takeover of what is going on here of the health-care system. let us not forget that the virus is one of the hardest and most hated jobs and there are thousands -- the irs is one of the hardest and most heated jobs and there are thousands of hard-working americans who work every day to run the system. a couple of people make a problem. that does not damage the organization, in my view. you get rid of the people who make the problem. i would like to hear, mr. miller, what he believed would make it so that this would not have happened before? >> there are two things, sir. i appreciate the kind words. we are a hard-working and honest group, frankly. that seems to be forgotten in all of this. with respect

irs. it raises questions about the president'srnment solutions to problems and they also note how you often the president says that he found out about any problems when all of the rest of us did. take a look. >> i first learned about it from the same news reports that i think most people learned about this. >> he found out about the news reports yesterday on the road. >> everyone knows the president did not know about this tactic until he heard about it on -- through the media. >> it was something we found out about a long with all of you. >> chris: how you can people have confidence in the president's programs when so often and this isn't just coming from republican conspiracy, you are seeing this in the mainstream media so often he seems to be a bystander to the problems in his own administration? >> i think that is an absurd proposition. you we are talking about the irs and the department of justice investigation. what would be a real problem is -- >> chris: and fast and furious. >> whi

. >> this is not just limited to the irs. this is a culture of intimidation. >> the president fix the problem as the white house goes into damage control, and congressional investigations gear up. >> why did you mislead congress and the american people on this? >> mr. chairman, i did not mislead congress, nor the american people. >> chris: we'll talk with a member of the president's inner circle, senior advisor dan pfeiffer, and a member of the first committee to probe the scandal, congressman paul ryan. plus, what does this crisis of confidence mean for the president's big government agenda? we'll ask our sunday panel about the storm clouds of distrust gathering over the white house, all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again from fox news in washington. someone described it as hell week for the white house, as the president and top advisors had to confront three major scandals, try to limit the damage to the administration, and to pursue mr. obama's second term agenda. joining us now is the president's senior advisor d

. >> congress gearing up for another week of hearings on the irs scandal. >> hearings on the irs controversy. >> now in its fifth hour. >> so far we're not seeing this go high up the chain. >> the people i represent believe the federal government is out to get them. >> not a single application was denied. >> my question is who is going to jail over this scandal. >> i don't want to go to jail. >> there's not a lot here other than incompetence. >> plenty of drama. >> i am proud of the work in government. >> lois lerner, head of the tax exempt organization. >> members of the committee accused me of providing false information. >> chose to plead the fifth. >> you don't get to tell your side of the story, and not be subjected to cross examination. >> i have not broken any laws. >> that's not the way it works. >> i have not violated any irs rules or regulations. >> she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege. >> i have not done anything wrong. >> she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. >> south carolina republican trey gowdy. >> that's not the way i

so how can i put that to irs agents? there's a certain logic to that until you analyze what is going on. the park rangers are not bringing in the money for the irs. that political logic unfortunately has gone on for the last 10 years. so until somebody steps up and really provides leadership to change that, i'm afraid it is not going to change. >> it is not just for auditors and agents but also, there is a lot that can be done with technology and we did make a lot of progress and there is much more that can be done. there is very little money available at times. >> here's a good follow-up. how much revenue per hour does an irs auditor have to make in order to break even? >> well, if you want to look at it on an average basis, the irs brings in actual enforcement revenue and the budget is about 10 billion. that, however, is not really a good way to look at it. because if you just look at it that way, you would be a lot more efficient to send notices of her grandmother for $100 in interest that she didn't pay. she will pro

the irs. >> in addition to making sure that we've got a new acting director there we are going to make sure we gather up the facts and hold accountable anybody who was involved in this. >> the scandal already had another casualty. the irs announced yesterday joseph grant the commissioner who oversaw the tax-exempt division will retire in early june. just how rough has this week been for the president? consider this question from a reporter. >> how do you feel about comparisons by some of your critics of this week's scandals to those that happened under the nixon administration? >> well, you know, i'll let you guys engage in those comparisons. >> as you can see, white house desperately trying to get their arms around all of this and all of these controversies but the irs is the one they're most nervous about and the one that congress is most interested in investigating. in fact dave camp is beginning to speak. >> the liberty upon which this country was founded. the blatant disregard with which

why didn't somebody at the irs or did somebody at the irs think about this and try to do something about it? >> i think, sir when we have an exam program underway we would like to walk you through. we have the determination letter process. you shouldn't assume that all of the cases in the determination process that we're talking about are of one -- . >> okay. let me ask the --let go beyond the assumption. to what degree are there other cases that you're irs is looking at in addition to those we identified in the report? >> i have to come back to you on that, sir. i don't know -- i don't have a sense. >> you don't have a sense. >> i believe there is fief toy 100. i could be wrong. rather than throw a number out, let us come back. >> okay. mr. schulman, what is your sense? >> i haven't been at the irs for six -- . >> when you're commissioner. these comfort letters, on your watch. >> my sense is very similar to mr. miller's there's a examination underway. there's -- at least was underway. that groups were being looked at in these cases being worked. >> all right. >> did it come to your mind

and the irs scandal that broke on friday, this irs scandal that president obama discussed today while standing next to david cameron in the white house. the scandal is about how the irs handled that huge influx of new organizations applying for tax exempt status while also engaged in some degree of political activity under this farcical part of the tax code. starting friday, reports have surfaced that the irs and handling these types of claims singled out groups that had the word tea party or word patriots in their name. and while that might reasonably be a way to find groups that were actually mostly interested in political activity rather than social welfare, it is not fair to apply extra irs scrutiny and questioning to those groups who are obviously engaged in political activity on the right if you are not also applying that scrutiny to groups who are engaged in political activity on the left. it is the imbalance, right? and thus far, we have no evidence that they were applying equal scrutiny to groups on the left side of the ideological spectrum. the irs official who on friday apo

the irs is, after all, the irs. i am reading in some accounts there were threats and there were tax auditing threats. did that occur, too? >> sure, of course this was a carry. the idea that somehow you didn't submit all this information it could be considered perjury. what keeps people like me up at night wasn't that i was shut down. i did find a big group like americans for prosperity. but the thing we were fighting all these years, in the president's healthcare law he empowered the very organization going out against this political opposition over the nation's healthcare. they are doing this for your political views. imagine what they can do to you on your healthcare. >> or no. stay right there. if they continue to do it. if there is no reform in the agency, if they operate politically against conservative groups, that i will continue to operate politically against obamacare. if people don't want to play or joan up at obamacare, if there are dispute, waivers, the irs becomes a political body all to itself and actu

and revoked their irs status. they now have to reapply and pay. the nonprofit has been around for 60 years. taxpayers should not be intimidated by the irs and there is broad agreement on that today. the american people should not be afraid of the irs and there is wide agreement on that today but we should be able to rely on the advice of a provider not be punished for it. i hope we are going to have an opportunity to work on this specific issue but i want to talk to a topic of recent focus by the irs and that is obviously the question today and the allegation that the political views have caused them to be combat focused. we all know that is outrageous and unacceptable and a thorough review will get us to the bottom of this to be sure that it never happens again but let's not forget something this morning. even with the actions of knowledge by the irs there is still an underlying problem here and that is 501(c)4 being engaged in politics. after citizens united irs was flooded with applications as you have indicate

the irs changed the law. the irs took a hard, clear word like exclusively, a word with legal meaning, and changed it to the soft word primarily that means nothing. left it open to irs agents then to determine if your organization was primarily concerned with the promotion of social welfare. and then in 2010 there's suddenly a flood of organizations applying for tax exempt status, saying they are primarily for the promotion of social welfare, and their titles include the words tea party. what planet do you have to be from to know that tea party organizations are not operated exclusively for promotion of social welfare as the words of the law require, and what planet do you have to be from to know that tea party organizations are not even, quote, primarily to further the common good and general welfare, which is the irs scandalous interpretation of the words exclusively for the promotion of social welfare. tea party organizations are primarily, and many of them exclusively, for the promotion of republican polit

she reached out to the irs on my behalf. >> greta: and what did the irs say? >> nothing. they denied they asked about individuals within these groups despite having a copy of that letter included in the query. >> greta: did you say, quit lying to me, i'm reading number 26, i got the questionnaire, the goods on you, you're lying? >> we tried. typical red tape there. at that point i wasn't able to get any farther because apparently i didn't have standing, because the letter wasn't addressed to me, despite having my name included within this question. >> greta: well, i have a copy of another letter, from lois g.lerner, the director of exempt organizations, dated may 14, 2012, to the congresswoman, who says the reason they are not going to tell you about is because of taxpayer privacy provisions. they think they're going to protect you and i guess the tea party group in liberty township by not telling you why your name showed up on their questionnaire, right? >> that's fascinating. absolutely right. >> greta: let me ask you something, why would the irs be interested in you? e

did it stop at the irs? >> what evidence to you have, to be tough here, what evidence do you have it went beyond the irs? >> i have none whatsoever. i'm not saying there is -- >> there are people out there alleging that this went farther than the irs. >> who are they? >> private citizens. they were romney donors and romney supporters who have been telling a lot of reporters that they have been -- they have felt harassed by government. whether it's the ir skrs, the l department, they have felt harassed in some way. i think all of these people after watching what the irs did -- >> let's go with what we know. did you hear carney today say we got the word at the white house office a couple weeks ago that this was coming? he specifically identified this particular report. not some i.g. report. i was making the reading a day ago. they knew there was an i.g. report. they didn't know it was about this particular problem. now it's pretty clear the white house knew about this particular problem two weeks ago. >> two,

neil: the irs now news that could make the irs six. they should be cut out of the health care law altogether and thousands of agents and tired. all right, scotty, what do you make of this? >> this makes just as much sen sense, you need to have them do open-heart surgery on you. the irs never should have been charge of obamacare. the last three days of scandal coming out, who is to say these death panels may not be coming true. neil: at very least, bad timing. what do you make of this? >> this raises significant questions about the irs role in overseeing and administering obamacare. the irs is in charge of administrating the premium subsidies. one of the things that has come out is the irs targeted groups that opposed obamacare. do you want the same people who targeted those groups now overseeing the law? neil: you do, right question you don'you? >> i do want to say it is rotten, but they're not going to force it, who will? the irs cannot afford the component of the health care laws. neil: do you feel at all weirded out by this the irs

the irs agents did nothing wrong. they were simply trying to enforce the law as the irs has understood it since 1959. i have been telling you all week that the irs is wrong about their interpretation of the law, an interpretation that they introduced in 1959, but it is not the fault of anyone working in the irs today. it is now very clear that whoo i've been saying about this is getting through to the white house and we'll have more about that later when i will show you more of exactly how the irs took a wrong turn under president eisenhower and has been on the wrong road on this one ever since. krystal ball, my concern is the concern of washington in this segment, how is the president doing in his management of what i think are the faux scandals. >> i think you're doing an excellent job of separating the perception and what the media wants to write and the reality of the nonscandals. i think the president has done actually a very good job. he went out today, he finally, i don't know why he didn't release the benghazi

he sort of indicted the irs. let's listen to what he said, the start. >> the power to tax is the power to destroy. well, under this administration the irs has abused its power to tax and it has destroyed what little faith and hope the american people had in getting a fair shake in walk in washington. this will not stand. trimming a few branches will not solve the problem when the roots of the tree have gone rotten. >> now, he's talking about the entire organization, not just a tiny part of it in charge of the cincinnati office, right, dana? >> oh, absolutely. he is talking about the organization there. then i think in the next breath, he pointed to the entire obama administration saying that they are 15ly with withhold fact until after the election. they took issue. i think when you look at the substance in the hearing, stephen miller did say, look, i admit, we need to have better guidelines for how to deal with political groups. he admit they'd do deal differently with political groups. when are you talking abou

>> well d on the irs stuff and all the rest? >> on the irs, feel like claude raineys. i'm shocked that thers would goo after people whose political views are not to their liking. on the issue of benghazi i'm deeply distressed and really stubbed when the president again today in this press conference repeated what is patent lie untree, and that is he keeps saying, as he did in the debate with mitt romney, he called the attack on benghazi a terrorist attack on that morning, and when in fact what he said was, no act of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, and that very night, he was on "60 minutes," and steve croft, said, mr. president you avowedded using the word terrorism in connection with the attack. do you believe this is a terrorist attack? obama: well, it's too early to know how this came about. what group was involved, but obviously it was an attack on americans. on letterman, few days later, said, was there -- what happens sneer the president says, here's what happened you've head a video released by somebody who lives here, sort of a shadowy

yes, we know democrats were writing letters to the irs. but this entire environment of casting aspersions on these groups began and was, in fact, fomented by the president. he was out there giving dozens of speeches, naming some of these groups by name, criticizing citizens united, suggesting some of these groups might be operating illegally. saying, we don't know where they're getting their money. maybe they're being controlled by a foreign corporation. if you work for the irs, you work for any federal agency and you hear the president of the united states making allegations like that, there is certainly a reason you might sit up and pay attention, or do something about it. so he helped create this environment not only by doing that, but during the election, for instance, by going out and targeting the romney donors by name, putting out the fact that calling some of them less than reputable. one of them ended up actually in after being named by an obama web site in this manner and ended up getting hit by three federal audits in four month

it is not just the irs. it is nlrb went off boeing for moving their facilities from washington state and south carolina. there will be other cases i will talk about in days to come. there is connection they have create adult turf intimidation where this type of behavior is rewarded, modeled and quite frankly in my opinion encouraged. >> they're on offense on this. and as i said they want to distance themselves from this act. they made sure the acting head of the irs resigned. what are you going to do in your capacity to try to prove that there is a connection goes higher up the food chain on this issue while they're trying to make sure ifb believes there is absolutely not? what will you do to try t prove that? >> number one i will continue to talk about the culture of intimidation. how this white house and administration love to demonizes their opponents. they're not contents to debating the merits of issue. they want to create that anyone who disagrees with them is a bad person. how that culture of intimida

there is the irs scandal. that kind of crosses the lines, liberals, democrats, conservatives all don't like that. the benghazi scandal, that's been around since september 11th, 2012. the media hasn't cared about i. they don't much care about it right now. here's what's going to happen. there will be a lot of angst. in about a week, there will be the moveon.org syndrome t. bill clinton syndrome will be on us. it's time to move on. we've covered it. they will turn the fire on republicans being obstructionists. mark my word. >> i want to ask one thing. i was very impressed with jonathan carl of abc. because he was the one that broke the what 13 different memos, the different drafts of the memos. i thought that opened the flood gates to a lot of criticism of obama on that very subject. the other point i want to make to you brent, the irs, it is more of a financial story, there isn't anybody backing obama on the irs. nobody has a good word to say with this whole story. the stories that come out, brent, the lies tha

that was never a question. >> greta: do you feel intimidated by the irs? worry about the the irs? >> absolutely. we a very strong tea party. we have some great worker bees in our tea party and we are effective and know that the politicians have taken notice of northeast tarrant tea party. at the same time, we are just normal people. 90% probably of your viewers, like i'm a stay at home mom. i'm not a cpa or tax attorney or anything like that. i'm not familiar with all of the tons of questions and or the regulations that go with having a tax exempt status. so when you get a letter that says from the irs what is your involvement with verify the recall you immediately start thinking whoa, wait a minute, did i do something i wasn't supposed to do? am i not allowed to be involve with this group? have i ruined everything for this group that we put together and worked so hard to build? it is paralyzing. it makes you think okay i'm just going to back off and we will ignore the whole tax exempt thing and give up. if is wasn't for jay sekulow that is what we would have done. >> greta: julie

: and a former irs commissioner calling the irs failures catastrophic. mike everson ran the irs under president bush. he joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> thanks for having me, greta. >> greta: what we have been talking about all day long is the number of visits that mr. shulman as head of the irs made to the white house, a number of visits. how many visits did you make to the white house when you were commissioner? >> i don't have an exact figure in mind. last year when i testified before the same house committee chaired by mr. issa was that to my recollection i only went over there once to discuss policy matters on an interagency basis. what i was getting to at the time, greta, i was concerned about the major role that the service plays in the affordable care act and the fact that it could potentially compromise the independence of the agency when you have the commissioner and his subordinates having to meet on a regular basis with officials over in that part of the government. >> greta: all right. so the fact that mr. shulman met 118 times at least t

and not just irs. stuart: we are asked to leave the irs when it gets hold of our personal health care information would not make a similar release to anybody. they would not do that with our health care information with our tax exempt stuff. >> there is no credibility, we learned the prison in charge of the criminal activity is now in charge of obamacare, no white house influence, and this needs to be investigated by congressional hearings like independent held. stuart: thanks for joining us. >> the couple weeks ago, secure american now organization is a benign organization trying to make sure we take care of things in the middle east. stuart: with a title like that? investigate! >> tweeting this reveals. they are crimes and let me use the term deliberately, the crime is not only of targeting groups specifically because of the content of their speech and to they assemble with but to misuse the information and then to allow that information to be leaked to sources that would be unfriendly to the group t

if you pay taxes, , you know abt the irs, and posbly the irs is a bit scary to you. the next guess we have is now lou dobbs. you listened to this four minutes conversaon for a president. what did you make of it? >> straightforward as you might expect, the president went on national television to tell us he is firing a guy who deserves to be fired, phaps more. i don't know. it isn't a decision that is going to resonate or stall h the internal renue service managed to get into the business of creating enemies and targeting conservatives in this country and this president did not speak out against the very atmosphere that had been created wi the internal revenue service. th is a president who is trying to save his posterior, and it is clearly the principal effort and it is also very clear that this president had something of an awakening over the course of the past 24 hours because we saw jay carney and the president talk about we had to find out re, they cap using the hypotheticals the irs had already admitted these egregio offenses phaps, criminal acts. gerri: it has

idea of the irs. all these now are in play right now in terms of attack and perhaps ridicule and, worse yet, derision. anyway, thank you, chuck todd. thank you, sam stein. >> that was the ball he dropped the other day. >> right back with more of the big three controversies threatening the administration right now and what the president needs to do to get a handle on these, to get his presidency back on track. this is "hardball," the place for politics. -yeah! go, angie! -whoo-hoo! [ sound fades ] at a moment like this, i'm glad i use tampax pearl. [ female announcer ] tampax pearl protects better. only tampax has a leakguard braid to help stop leaks before they happen. tampax pearl protects better. to help stop leaks before they happen. as soon as you feelon it, try miralax. it works differently than other laxatives. it draws water into your colon to unblock your system naturally. don't wait to feel great. miralax. >>> well, minnesota's about to become the 12th state in the country to approve marriage

what is your irs horror story? tweet me at judge jeanine or facebook me we might even read your answer later in the show. stay with us. >>> i don't know. i don't know what has happened in this matter. i don't know. i don't know. i assume he was but i don't know. >> that i don't know. i don't know why that didn't happen. i don't know. of that i'm not sure. we probably have to get back to you with an answer on that. i don't know whether or not what funds are being used or whether that letter would apply to that effort. >> i simply don't know. >> i have complete confidence in eric holder as attorney general. he does his job with integrity and i expect he will continue to do so. >> judge jeanine: so just what does the attorney general actually know? it is the nation's top law enforcement officer. shouldn't he know almost everything? there are only a handful of people who can answer that question this country. i'm joined by one of them. former united states attorney general michael good to have you here again. >> good t

no one will escape the bony grip of the irs. i am the author of the bill it repeal obama care, tat is an important bill and got through e house of representatives and i am chair of the tea party caucus. it was not only the tea party targeted b the obama administration through the irs, it was also christians and those who support israel and aspect- debt can conservatives and tea partiers. and this is an instance where political oppons of the administration are punished and the alloys of the administration were begin award and fast tracked. we should be worried. now a now national database is about to be created that hold our sensitive and personal information, our health care and the irs will be the enforcer of health care. it is reasonablele to ask. >> and if i am not mistaken, ey will decide how much companies are required to carry how much in health care. and they get fined with the enforce status and drive political groups out of business? >> you have statedthe concerns of the american people. i used to work as attorney in th

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neil: the irs now news that coululd make the irs six. they should be cut out of the health care law altogether and thousands of agents and tired. all l right, scotty, what do you make of this? >> this makes just as much sen sense, you need to have them do open-heart surgery on you. the irs never should have been charge of obamacare. the la three days of scandal coming out, who is to say these death panels may not be coming true. neil: at very least, bad timing. what do you make of this? >> this raises significant questions about the irs role in overseeing and administering obamacare. the irs is in chargef administrating the premium subsidies. one of the things that has come out is the irs targeted groups that opposed obamacare. do you want the same people who targeted those groups now overseeing t law? neil: you do, right question you don'you? >> i do want to say it is rotten, but there not going to force it, who will? the irs cannot afford the component of the health care laws. neil: do you feel at all weirded out by this the irs is pol

it is from the irs. i am being audited. (applause) well, duringed from's irs hearings texas congressman kevin bread spoke about a woman from his home state that applied for tax exempt status. >> she was visited bite fbi and domestic terrorism unit. her personal returns and business returns were audited by the irs. she received four fbi inquiries. and in her business received audit ands unscheduled audits and the commissioner on environmental quality and the a tf twice. and now this is a citizen, in a maul business woman who had never been audited by the irs or any of the agencies until show applied to you for tax exempt status for her tea party. the broader question here: is this still america? . is this government so drunk on power that it would turn its full force and full might to harass and intimidate and threaten an average american who only wants her voice and their voices heard? > well katherine is president that congressman brady spoke about in the clip and joins us in a huckabee exclusive. katherine, we are delight

>> which irs scandal? >> i should not be asked about that. >> i am not a part of that not today. >> when are you a part of it? >> next year. >> the irs is taking advantage of conservatives. >> the government has too much power and has run a muck. >> it's a scandal type of deal with tea party affiliate. >> it has been a pretty big part of the news this week. how do you feel about not knowing about it? >> i feel kind of like i am unb under a rock. >> you feel bad you don't know about if? >> i do. i feel even worse. >> all i do is work and eat and go to the gym. >> what are you doing lately that you don't know who the vice president was? >> we are both college students. >> what college do you go to? >> cal berkeley. >> that's a pretty hard school to get into, right? >> it is, definitely. >> do you think you have to know who the vice president is in order to go to cal berkeley? >> probably, yeah. >> there's no question we the people are becoming distracted. i write about that in my new book. the machines are t

on the irs front, please explain why the irs director lied to the country in november. and how that department could get so out-of-control. it's a sad fact of life that politics almost always intrudes on leadership instead of really solving problems, president obama and most every other modern president trying to deflect them. mr. obama did that again today. when he put a happy face on the a.p. matter saying there should be new laws that protect reporters. >> to the extent that this case has prompted renewed interest about how do we strike that balance properly, and i think now is the time for us to go ahead and revisit that legislation. >> bill: see what i mean? so the president now wants more protections for reporters even has his administration rifles through their phone records. this is great, you know? all right. this has been a tough week for the obama administration and things will get even tougher if more whistleblowers emerge. big mistakes were made on be many fronts. almost obama must be very aggressive in complain explaining to the american public exactly wha

nobody likes the irs. stuart: you were convicted of fraud when you are at crazy eddie. >> i got house arrest. stuart: you were convicted of fraud. >> yes. the fbi kept the irs out of the investigation because they feared the irs. fifteen years of tax of agent and only three years of securities fraud beard the irs laid no part in the investigation of crazy eddie stuart: they wanted you to tell them how things work. >> yes. if i would have refused i would be dead. no, i am just kidding. stuart: did they turn up at your door and say, sam, we want you. you know, they called me up. they wanted to speak with me. they wanted me to teach them the methods used by criminals. stuart: did they put a lot of pressure on you? >> no. the agents hated me. they told me that my ex-wife is more scared than they are. stuart: you brought this with you. is this an award that you received from the irs? >> no. if you are not a progressive, you are not an obama supporter, carry one of these around and when the irs contacts you, the

washington irs is exempt. they were supposed to be overseeing they talk about the gross management that went on here and the lack of oversight. i don't know whether that is going to be oversight problem, oversight and we blessed it problem. we need somebody that we can trust to look into it i will give you the last word. >> they are facing a laps judgment in crisis. they will not be able to get anything done if they don't figure out a way to pull all the way back, make it very open and transparent and answer the questions slowly and methodically. the irs was too quick to say it was only a couple of guys. suggest. somebody on top of it and appoint somebody independent on top of it. >> megyn: you are giving the conspiracy theirists validity. you are validating their concerns. i think of the t-shirt i have seen union line which reads what if glenn beck is right? >> yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. and now the conservatives have been proven right. i still -- i want to have confidence in government b

irs under fire over targeting of conservative groups. very same agency ramping up for the obamacare rollout. could the taxman play politics were your health insurance and up roar after reporters' phone records are seized. the administration says american lives were at risk but is that reason enough? >>> inexcusable and americans have a right to be angry about it and i am angry about that. i will not tolerated this behavior in any agency but especially in the irs given the power that it has and the reach that it has in all of our lives. >> paul: welcome to the journal editorial report. i'm paul gigot. that was president obama reacting to just one of the controversies swirling around his administration, news that the internal revenue service targeted conservative groups in an election season. it's part san behavior asking the agency and reinforce many people's fears about government running amok. joining us is dan henninger, kim strasel and colin levy. what were they looking for in these groups? >> they were looking for basically anything

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