should i play icahn by buying icahn enterprises? >> you certainly could. you could diversify. >> if you did in january of 2000, you'd be happy as heck right now because the stock since january 1st of 2000 is up 1400%. >> but i think to josh's point, maybe you take it as idea generation. we're always looking for ways to find new names. and you look at a lot of different research houses, newspapers. if you find out that carl icahn owns a name, you start doing homework on it. i think what's happening with apple, simultaneously we're seeing fundamentals start do do a little better. >> i asked stephanie, what's the critical reason that she looks at in deciding when to sell? when you've sold positions, what is the main reason usually that you've sold? >> it's fund mental fulfillment so to speak and it's reaching the point where we're looking for these factors to actually occur -- >> and when they do? >> you've hit the metrics. >> i would say aphorisms is not going to help you. on the other hand, pigs get slaughtered. there's no mathematics in that. so when icahn

we were just talking about carl icahn. he tweets in a letter to tim cook saying full letter disclosed on my website. shareholders square table, the full letter of what carl icahn wants from tim cook will be published tomorrow when carl icahn launches his website. he has used twitte twitter as ae to let the media, the public, shareholders, investors know about his plan for apple. he wrote about cordial dinner with tim cook, phone calls, the fact he wants to see the company do a big share buyback. we will see how tim cook responds to that letter tomorrow. take a look at the market right now. the dow down 15,398. take a look at today's action, it is a vague reversal of yesterday. remember we had jobs tuesday, a new thing for everybody with the government shutting down for three weeks. the jobs report coming out. what happened with many investors yesterday is they saw this and thought to themselves the fed if they don't get the 6.5% unemployment rate at their target, stimulus is going to go and go and go. there you go, there i

carl icahn. >> really? >> i think that was a quote from a while ago. >> he likes, you know, in his offices he's got some very beautiful paintings, the battle scenes and things like that. >> give me a higher stock price for apple? i can go there. >> i guess carl gave that line at a texaco annual meeting. >> oh yes. carl's just -- he makes it fun. >> he does. he really does. >> doesn't he make it fun? >> especially when there's not much else going on. thank you, carl. >> meanwhile, we want to get to bertha coombs, who joins us from capitol hill the. >> reporter: good morning, carl. the title of this hearing is implementation failures congress didn't know. today they are all finger pointing, deflecting blame, cgi, the key architect in terms of the hardware says the problem isn't them, the problem is software. quality software services, a unit of united health says it's not their software, which is used to help identify people and to help get them registered. part of the problem, they said, was a late decision

icahn would sell a lot sooner than this. i don't know what he saw at $60 that you know didn't look like a bargain to him to sell at $200, but he stuck it out the other direction. and i think this is just an indication that the stock has had a run. it's had its run. i don't think that this is an indictment of netflix or that icahn wants to believe in the company. and i think icahn is doing what a prudent investor is going to do in taking a profit. i don't think an indictment of the company. >> he said that the stock may have had its run. do you think that this is sort of the last straw when it comes to believing in this momentum name? there are plenty of investors out there who rode this train for so long. today we had josh at the fast money desk outlining a bearish technical take on the stock. >> i mean sooner or later, cash flow is going to catch up to netflix. and if you look at their net income the last five quarters page one of their investor letter, it's positive you know $85 million or so. $81 million. if you look at f

icahn, his lawyers and all -- >> let's get icahn out of this. we're talking about the medium. >> you get out of there. you do find people who will take advantage of it and think they are he. and then you're raising a great point with that. >> but there are lots of fake handles out there, by the way. when you first started tweeting immediately sprung up i'm carl icahn. >> his hair moves stocks. >> it does. and this is your idea, brian, giving you fill credit, why not just have rules where you can only tweet this kind of potentially market-sensitive data or information outside of market hours? >> if you're bigger than 5% shareholder. we were debating that internally today. >> david, what do you think? >> you know, i do wonder whether like any new medium, remember the internet chat boards, herb? i know you do, when they started, and the abuse that took place or can take place. certainly there will be potential abuse here of twitter. but it's also got to be buyer beware. you know, we'll see how it develops. it's an effective means of distributing in

i think that carl icahn is stepping up. making sure that the ceo has a fiduciary responsibility. >> should a company with this much cash on hand be borrowing. >> is it more efficient to borrow money here in the u.s. and leave the cash off shore? unfortunately under current tax policy, that's probably the best move. >> apple is a little bit caught up in this discussion. we all believe that eventually we will get to a 25% corporate rate. but i do think that in the long term, getting that product life cycle down and restoring the market's faith in their innovation probably does a lot more for their stock than a bigger buy back program. keep in mind they already have a record breaking buy back program in place. >> since carl icahn has gotten involved, is he on to something here? >> having them always moves it higher for a while. he certainly picked a good moment. he is is a very smart investor. i don't think it's bad to have them suggesting. when he says stuff is good for the stock it's good for him, when he makes the money the

icahn owns. technically, if you own one share of apple stock, you have the ability to go in there and question the company. and if this goes to a proxy contest, my research has shown that usually the incumbent loses. so you want to at all costs avoid proxy contests. and kind of settle this out of court, so to speak. so the long winded answer is, i think that apple does absolutely have other alternatives. i think it's short term to do the buyback. but far be it for me to reason that. it's upon apple to have a process in place to think through all of this and come back and communicate quickly to the marketplace before this thing gets out of control. >> yeah. i mean, carl icahn, as you heard, he was on earlier with scott wapner. want to get your take, greg. want you to weigh in here on the possibility of a proxy fight here. listen to this. >> i think we would test and see how the shareholders feel and if we should do a proxy fight. and we would judge -- judge that at that time. >> apple -- >> greg,

i don't want carl icahn. this type of stuff to me, bill, borders on the activity we saw in the '80s that i think was somewhat unsavory. >> you wonder how tim cook would responsibility. he probably would have a different answer privately than publicly, i wouldn't know. >> i would guess. listen, tim cook, i wouldn't be surprised if right now is trying to give carl icahn the heisman and push him away with the hand stretched out. you know, i think that he would probably agree with ron and others who would say that's not a strategy at this point to use a big chunk of that cash to do an even bigger buy back than they've already announced. maybe it's better served keeping within the company. maybe it's better served reinvesting in the business. maybe it's better served going out to do a transformative acquisition to help apple maintain competitive advantage over all the other players in the various spaces in which it operates. >> in the '80s, some guys went out and raided companies because they had overfunded pensio

so how do you know when to sell as well as icahn does? now back to skochlt scott. >> thank you so much. >>> it's time for the "power pitch tournament of champions." six start-up founders today will get 30 seconds to power pitch their big idea to the world. each of the six already delivered a power pitch on cnbc that got high marks from a panel of judges. so today, the best of the best are back, competing head-to-head to become the power pitch champion. this time, the competition has won ultimate judge, entrepreneur, investor, marcus lemonis, of course, the host of cnbc's prime-time series "the profit." marcus? >> thanks, judge. i appreciate it. listen, on my show, "the profit," everybody knows three ps are important. people, process, and product. today, we're going to see companies that think they can demonstrate that. we're going to find out. i'll introduce the founders. a.j. forsythe from eye craft, and themuse. a.j., take your stand at the podium. you're up first. are you ready? >> i'm ready. >> are you sure? >> i'm positive. >> go ahe

of carl icahn. enough about this financial engineering. apple should stay focused on making great products. stock will take care of itself. i also have to say to mario, completely agree, microsoft shareholders talk about firing bill gates, come out and say who you are and deliver your logic. this is ridiculous. >> let's stay on this topic for a second since you brought it up. thank you for the compliment. we appreciate that. you don't think apple should tell carl to stuff it, do you? >> you think they should do some -- >> first of all if you are the ceo of a public company and any shareholder who has that kind of money in the company, he has skin -- if i had a thousand shares, forget it. got a billion dollars, see it. >> pick everyone's brains. >> here is the thing. you don't have to follow his advice. >> icahn is a small investor. 15 massive institutions that hold a lot more stock than he does. >> we agree. $500 million company with $1 billion with a skin in the game. >> it is skin. apple is focus

icahn associates owns 88% of it. over the last year up over 147%, up over 800% over the last ten years. the easiest way to think of this mlp is seeing it split into two segments. first holding company with stakes in what icahn thinks are undervalued company like cvr, federal mogul, tropicana and american railcar. the second segment, these are the investments. they account for 30% of the mlp's assets. icahn funds these investments, chosen and managed by a group of professionals, including his son. here icahn takes big stakes in firmed where he can ung clog value, where eyre dividends, buy backs, restructuring or management changes. dell, apple, netflix among icahn's recent investments. others including chesapeake, the drug company first labs, rig operator transocean, mentor graphics and the software firm nuance communications. two other, take 2 enter active and biotech's enzon pharmaceutical. he looks at companies where he sees they're undervalued, changes that can be made quickly to unlock the value. that's one strat

icahn bought a total of 4, 291, 000. which led mr. icahn to tweet yesterday, quote, sold block of netflix today. wish to thank reed hastings, ted sa ran dose, netflix team and kevin spacey. mr. icahn still holds about half the shares he bought but the up withes he sold netted him $825 million. certainly not bad and perhaps one of the best trades ever, ty. >> all right. sue, thank you very much. dominic chu, he used to be a trader before he came to his cepses and came over to this side of the business. dom, what have you learned over the years about when it is time to get out of a stock you own? >> you know, it's interesting, you talk about all these different dynamics in the marketplace. if you have the big run that you've had in netflix and see carl icahn taking some profits, take a look at some of the other names we look at as traders that are star performers. the question becomes do these stocks have the ruoom to run further or time to pocket some of the winnings. depends on your risk tolerance and where your financial goals are. h

investor carl icahn sends a letter to tim cook. he wants cook to begin an immediate buyback of shares to spend 150 billion dollars buying at the current price of 525 a share. icahn's got 4 million shares. if the offer is for 5.25 it does not raise the stock price. and a microsoft executive slams the new ipad saying the surface from microsoft is the next best big thing in tech, more storage, more productivity. a better product altogether says microsoft. the bell coming up next, but first i've got to show you this. halloween is a week away. one father made this costume for his 22 month old daughter, an led costume that makes her looks like a ghostly skeletal figure. sure to be on the hit list. back in a moment. it's a growing trend in business: do more with less with ss energy.hp is help. soon, the world's most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance, using forty percent less energy. multiply that across over a thousand locations, and they'll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60

one is invest alongside of icahn. the other is do you invest in icahn enterprises? >> finally is the right ward. in the middle of the year it was just flat lining. carl was on fire and this stock was not going. other people just woke up to the fact. i think it's pretty hard to jump in here which is a phenomenal return. the stock is up at 98 it does not reflect the fundamentals. >> digging into this a lot of what drives this company is his private ownership or his ownership of majority stakes. american railcar. a smaller part is icahn is a hedge fund that you would be getting. you're not getting the activism in a pure play. >> you get the catalyst. i'm a big believer in what he's doing. he's looking for deep value and he is looking for a catalyst. he happens to be his own self-fulfilling catalyst. i'm an investor looking for value quite often. he forces the change so you are getting that all in one shot. this is a very expensive company at this point. i think it's a very good strategy and you have to admire the way he has added value to his investors. >> you're not g

right after that, karl icahn appeared on bloomberg. maybe i was born yesterday, but my gut is he had the interview set up. we were reaching out to see if he canceled. liz: because ron got tough behind him. charlie: because bloomberg -- you know, the problem with these interviews, it is uncritical. you are always nice to people who talk to you. there is nothing wrong with that. that is human nature. the question is, do you allow yourself to be used where there is no context? it looks like he cancels them and says: okay, i told you so. then, he teaches them a lesson. by the way, let's be honest, apple is doing a buyback. he wants a buyback that is three times as large, apparently. liz: charlie, thank you very much. charlie gasparino. karl icahn used twitter. setting expectations too low to get big returns when it filed its ipo. a conservative price change. in essence, at this range, it would give the company a tad of a valuation of facebook. it has more than doubled the range they have a has announced. what an interesting day. you just w

we know that apple wants -- icahn wants apple to do a massive stock buyback. when he spoke on the halftime report to scott wapner and said the two sides are far apart on the size and scope of the buyback, apple's board thinking $16 billion range, icahn thinking it should be more like $150 billion. he talked about why apple should do that kind of massive buyback in this environment. >> i can't remember seeing it for the last 20 years where you can borrow money at 3% to 4% which apple could. here they have a golden opportunity go borrow money, which actually, you know, somebody like myself, borrows money today because we can borrow it and we even lose a little bit on the ash traj, and apple can borrow money and buy stock at such a low valation. >> icahn called that buyback for apple shares really a no-brainer. now that stock has been a laggard so far this year. it's posted actually a negative return. not only is it under performing but it's losing investors money in 2013. investors are looking for anything to help jump start this stock. it wasn't just apple he s

can earnings give cook cover from icahn's wrath? plus, which tech stock is poised to break out next week. >> my answer is i don't have the first damn clue. >> no wor piece, jack, because we do. and we'll reveal it, when options action returns. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close to the options floor... [ indistinct shouting, bell dinging ] ...you'll bust your brain box. ♪ all on thinkorswim from td ameritrade. ♪ ♪ [ bell ringing, applause ] five tech stocks with more than a 10%... change in after-market trading. ♪ all the tech stocks with a market cap... of at least 50 billion... are up on the day. 12 low-volume stocks... breaking into 52-week highs. six upcoming earnings plays... that recently gapped up. [ male announcer ] now the world is your trading floor. get real-time market scanning wherever you are with the mobile trader app. from td ameritrade. >>> we are back in options action, want to know how to m

icahn heavily invested in. what did the billionaire investor have to say that gives you a window into what he's going to do next? charlie got it out of him unlike other business reporters. ♪ ♪ if you've got copd like me, hey breathing's hard. know the feeling? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd.

>> it's never too late to get in on icahn enterprise. give him a tweet and tell him i said that. >> allison in my home state of new jersey. >> caller: hey, jim. >> what have you got? >> caller: boo-yah. >> boo-yah. go ahead. >> caller: atmel health. >> no. nice people, but i don't want to own it. that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> the lightning round is sponsored by td a ameritrade. >> mad money word of the day is oligopoly. just like monopoly. instead of one company running everything, which is illegal, three or four. and nobody ever made a board game of. >> caller: boo-yah, jim. >> caller: ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, boo-yah for you. >> caller: jimmy, from california. i want to talk about yahoo!. >> yahoo!? i see your dog and i raise you my dog. >> caller: are you having a great day? >> couldn't be better. how about you? >> caller: beautiful here in texas. >> it was here. there was a fire drill. i went outside. did a lot of work. didn't let it bother me. you know, like fabulous. ♪ ♪ can't you smell tha

>> it's never too late to get in on icahn enterprise. give him a tweet and tell him i said that. >> allison in my home state of new jersey. >> caller: hey, jim. >> what have you got? >> caller: boo-yah. >> boo-yah. go ahead. >> caller: atmel health. >> no. nice people, but i don't want to own it. that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> the lightning round is sponsored by td ameritrade. >> "mad money" word of the day is oligopoly. just like monopoly. instead of one company running everything, which is illegal, three or four. and nobody ever made a board game of. >> caller: boo-yah, jim. >> caller: ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, boo-yah for you. >> caller: jimmy, from california. i want to talk about yahoo!. >> yahoo!? i see your dog and i raise you my dog. >> caller: are you having a great day? >> couldn't be better. how about you? >> caller: beautiful here in texas. >> it was here. there was a fire drill. i went outside. did a lot of work. didn't let it bother me. you know, like fabulous. ♪ ♪ can't you smell tha

. >> carl icahn selling shares. we'll discuss the best time to get out of a stock. >> boeing raising its full-year guidance. on the flip side, caterpillar is falling after posting huge numbers, missed the street by a very wide margin, cutting hits full-year outlook. ceo doug oberhelman was on "squawk box" this morning. >> i've seen cycles over my 39 years. this one is pretty acute in mining. the rest of the business is hanging in there. >> jim, he said it's been a tough year, he'll be glad to see it go, he's still bullish, long term on mining but he doesn't know if it's this year, next year, five years, ten years. not a great, reassuring message by observ by oberhelman this morning. >> a third of the job cuts have happened in the united states, their projection for revenue for 2014 is up 5%, maybe down 5%. doesn't look like next year is the term. >> no, it doesn't. and this seems to be a growing perhaps disillusionment with management at this point. you haven't mentioned the foray into china that jim has spoken with

i bounce a lot of stuff off of carl icahn. i like carl icahn. liz: can you do the imitation again? charlie: golly. we had a preinterview. that conversation was interesting because i had to leave out the expletives but you know what is interesting, he says it's the way it is, and i asked him point blank about him using the media particularly cnbc and bloomberg. if he didn't like what one guy said, would he go to the other guy? he didn't like what somebody said about him, he had an interview set up and went to bloomberg. he didn't deny it. he said it is what the president does, why can't i do it? i don't fault him for it. i fault them for being played like that, but i don't fault him. by the way, this just goes to show you if you are a journali journalist, you don't have to do kiss up interviews to get people on. as long as you treat them fairly. we gave him his shot. i asked him tough questions. but that is what we do here at fox business. liz: yeah. bill ackman. charlie: he doesn't want to come on. i e-mailed him, he says he doesn't want to do it. not my thing, he says. liz: okay.

we are talking about carl icahn, icahn enterprises one of the largest shareholders in netflix. i'm not sure what they are up to. but before you try to follow them into the stock, bear in mind they started to purchase this stock at much, much lower levels. they actually had their big first significant reported -- this thing was below 75 bucks, most of that position was acquired below $100. so they've actually had it in the meantime i would think, if anything, they will start peeling out of it. 88 times earnings, think about it, even if they got their top line revenues in their space, if they get all the content up to the level that disney has, based on their current margins they are trading 35 times that number. >> so you are positioning for a downward move? >> i am positioning for a downward move. can't short the stock, there's a big short interest, plus carl's involvement. the answer here in high volatility stock, sell premium for that you are buying. i'm looking at the november march 275 calendar put spread. i'll sell the november 275 put for 4.50 bucks. i'll use proceeds to

carl icahn's return on his netflix stake. three other ugly duckling stocks a that could turn into swan. a major merger sparking job cuts and memo from one power house law firms that has its female associates up in arms. halftime will be back after this short break. [ laughter ] ♪ [ female announcer ] each one of us is our own boss. ♪ and no matter where you are in life, ask your financial professional how lincoln financial can help you take charge of your future. ♪ can help you take charge of your future. so ally bank has a that won't trap me in a rate. that's correct. cause i'm really nervous about getting trapped. why's that? uh, mark? go get help! i have my reasons. look, you don't have to feel trapped with our raise your rate cd. if our rate on this cd goes up, yours can too. oh that sounds nice. don't feel trapped with the ally raise your rate cd. ally bank. your money needs an ally. >>> welcome back to the fast money time half time report. the company out with its reliability survey but before that the company ann

it's like the icahn of the show, wapner-icahn show. tuesday is new economy day. we get result, yelp. do you yelp and limpgdin. now, these companies with their dual subscription advertising models represent two models that have come public in years. they need to raise the ref few forecasts and we might as well give them the whole thing. i want a three for one stock load. it's like amazon, already so many opportunities for growth, i want them to raise money to allow them to become the first world wide mobile yellow pages. both linkedin and yelp are bent on domination none like pinky the brain and amazon. both yelp and limpgdin, yelp needs more money to do it. please raise the money, yelp. you can tell me otherwise. you come on the show next week. you want to pay close attention to gilead. i'm concerned here because we saw certain numbers this week and the stock is coming down. without pen pointing information about when we will see approval and sales estimate, i think you emight enjoy the good news and going down, 69, maybe 64. always remember i like companies who

icahn says he wants to buy back apple stock. he believes the company is undervalued, with the stock price down 30% at its peak, turning it into a bargain. it comes following a dinner meeting with ceo tim cook just weeks after icahn said he invested $2 billion in apple. >>> experts blame an earlier labor day this year for a dip in total auto sales for september. it means cars sold during the holiday counted in august numbers. overall sales fell 4%. among u.s. automakers, gm posted an 11% decline compared to september of last year. ford, however, saw a 6% rise. chrysler squeezed out a 1% gain. >>> and the famed new york city opera is shutting down. after missinging a fund-raising goal to keep the institute afloat. the opera announced on tuesday it's filing for bankruptcy after raising about $2 million of the $7 million needed to keep its lights on. the company performed its first opera in 1944. at the new york stock exchange, i'm gigi stone with the "moneywatch" report. back to you. >> gigi, thank you very much. >>> well, in sport

one is carl icahn. she pushing for a major buyback. most importantly, there is a

icahn said he believes the company is undervalued, turning it into a bargain. it comes following a dinner meeting with ceo tim cook just weeks after icahn said he invested $2 billion in apple. >>> experts lay in earlier this year for a dip in total awe stow sales for september. it means cars sold during the holiday counted in august numbers. overall sales fell 4% among u.s. automakers, gm posted an 11% decline compared to september of last year. ford, however, saw a 6% rise. chrysler squeezet out a 1% gain. >>> and the famed new york city opera is shutting down. the opera announced on tuesday it's filing for bankruptcy after raising about $2 million of the $7 million needed to keep its lights on. the company performed its first opera in 1944. at the new york stock exchange, i'm gigi stone with the cbs money report. >> thank you very much. >>> in sports, the pirates host their first playoff game since 1992. my rats fans charged up for the wild card matchup in cincinnati and they can't have to wait long to cheer. marlon byrd homers in the second inning to start t

listen, carl icahn is an investor, i am sure a very nice guy. but icahn? think about it. steve jobs is an icon. great investment record for warren buffett. carl icahn used to be known as a guy who invest in a company, tells his investment, goes out there as an activist and guess what, the stock goes up as he promotes his position. that is not an icon, that is a green mailer or a savvy investor. dagen: i want to bring that term back. >charlie: gordon gecko. a great scene in the movie. connell: who are you hitting harder, the journalist? or facilitating carl icahn? >charlie: anybody who buys this guy stinks. on "brand x" put it in context. what kills me is you see these reports about carl icahn invested in x, y or z. we see this, and it is not really the context is there. i think that is worse than him saying can you give me a freebie. if i ask you to give me a freebie and you give it to me, what is worse, me asking or you doing a? dagen: very well put. connell: we will look for this one on the net later. charlie: icahn and icon. connell: did you see who is on next hour? ma

icahn has about $2 billion invested in apple. apple's stock closed at about $535 yesterday. >>> the irs isn't known for flexibility when it comes to back taxes yet the irs inspector general says 700 of the agency's own contractors owe more than $5 million. most are in violation of irs rules. employees and contract workers are required to comply with federal tax laws. >>> and a wedding ring will be sold today that was owned by lee harvey oswald. he's the man who shot president kennedy nearly 50 years ago. oswald left the ring at home the day of the assassination. it's one of nearly 300 items related to the former president that will be auctioned today in boston. oswa oswald's widow is selling the ring. it could bring in $100,000. quite a piece of history, anne-marie. >> yeah. we'll see who attempts to get it. gigi stone at the new york stock exchange. thanks a lot, gigi. >>> straight ahead, your thursday morning weather. >>> and in sports, game one turns in the umpire's unusual decision to reverse a call. [ female announcer ] when

. >> day after a meeting between icahn and cook. we still don't know what happened. >> my guess -- i don't have an update. don't tweet, please. just don't say anything if you can avoid it, i think they probably asked carl. when it comes to bill miller's point of view and many others, it's the free cash yield. they talk about that and seize the power of the stock sometimes and other times it doesn't because everybody is focused on growth. >> they should tell the tea party this is a good substitute for u.s. debt. full faith and credit of the iapple nation. they've got better cash flow than the federal government. >> i think they sold debt at a better level. >> the u.s. government defaults. apple has full faith and credit backed up by the iphone and 5s. they are. verizon is going to have better credit. what do you give a balance sheet for the u.s. government if they default? do they stand that -- i don't want to say tea party because they get mad. maybe the celestial tea party. chamomille. >> pass me the stevia. >> with ricin. >> you g

do they pursue the icahn strategy of a massive buy back. do you have a few of which would be better or which you would rather see? >> looking at all the options on the table, a lot of folks are saying this carl eye this carl buy back is not such a bad idea. this is just a snapshot in time. what i'm more curious about is what's going to happen in the fourth quarter. the new ipads and iphones and pcs are going to be out there, it says, how much more profit are they going to be able to post? having the plan of stock buy backs will have huge effects on how well apple is going to be reporting later on. take a look at what apple is going to say. >> what are you doing with your holding? where is your head on reducing it or perhaps buying more apple stock? >> a lot of people inevitably might be hoping that the stock falls and they get a better entry point. does the interest in carl icahn put a flaw where we are now. >> he with have talked about this before. our original entry point was in 2005 at 35, 50. we have a massive profit from when the stock

icahn, how are you? >> yeah, hi, charlie, pretty good. >> tell me, you think i was a little too harsh in my assessment, particularly of my assessment calling for a $150 billion buyback? i think apple management may know what to do with the money better than you, but i want you to know i do admire your career. and by the way, an amazing record this year. >> well, i appreciate you saying that. and, you know, i'm not at all upset. you have a right to say what you want, and that's fine. but i, obviously, disagree with you. where do you want me to start? >> go ahead. the floor's yours, you know? i think we need to be fair and balanced, and i'm just going to let you tell me where i've gone wrong, and we'll go on to the next question. >> yeah, sure. the way i look at it is that we have a real problem in this country. i mean, you can say what you want about me, but the problem in this country is that our companies really don't produce enough because they're badly managed for the most part. many good managed. but

the way we always -- david: that was icahn's first offer. you start with the biggest thing you want and whittle it down after compromise. >> exactly. that 60 billion is still relatively conservative. they have 100 billion overseas. if they took out off billion to do the buyback, if they ever get overseas back to the u.s. they could pay off the debt tomorrow. still a relatively conservative authorization. liz: we'll get mark's thoughts on the laptop part of the business. he is with "laptop" magazine. dennis, you have more. >> couple points why isn't the stock going up on what seems to be a nice little beat. in the current quarter apple giving revenue outlook of 55 to 58 billion. it might not be aggressive enough because wall street was looking for 55.7. might want to see a bigger upgrade. on gross margins, understand the gross margins this quarter just reported came in at 3%. apple said they could go down to 36.5 next quarter. year ago quarter, right now the margins were 40%. year before that, margins were 40.3. the so the profit margins are

highway should he handle icahn? back with jack welch talking about that. were you surprised carl icahn came out all guns ablaze wanting change, investor moves? >> i hope tim cook doesn't take his eye off the long-range strategy for apple. look, activist investors are getting a lot of money now. a lot of funds are jumping in and supporting them. you don't have to look any further than jcpenney to see what some of them can do to cause a train wreck. and ackman a k akman and his li at jcpenney cost hundreds of thousands of people their jobs, in the process of destroying an old icon. it's a tragedy that activist investor made every bad decision you could make to sink an american company. >> you think an activist investor will be helpful for all shareholders -- >> all stakeholders, employees, et cetera. >> that's a great way to put it. so, what went wrong, then, with jp -- with jcpenney, pardon me, that all of a sudden it caused so much disruption? >> they had a revolutionary strategy. turned 180 from where they were. they sort of took an apple idea and put it

how are they feeling about icahn. >> that's good. legendary activist investor is talking about proxy fights to force changes at apple. after the earnings are out, two pros will debate icahn. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is. but it doesn't usually work that way with health care. with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and cost estimates, so we can make better health decisions. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. >>> joining us is joaquin lan and matt. thank you for joining us. how are you telling clients, to big-end clients, to allocate capital right here? >> we're telling them we're looking at the global economy improving. the fed has our back. look at the global cyclicals, whether industrials, material, informat

i know you want to talk about icahn. from my point of view, i'd love to see a dividend raise, not a buyback. that's what a lot of companies are doing. and right now apple's got a 2.5% dividend yield. microsoft 3.3%, intel, 3.9%. i think that would be interesting, but i didn't hear anything about that. >> well, i think carl upped the ante today. by saying i'm not going anywhere now the ball's in apple's court really to come back with maybe something. >> carl is probably the most powerful guy out there, but still the market cap of this company relative to the size he owns, he owns a lot, but still -- >> $2 billion -- >> what can carl do? what kind of fit could he possibly throw that would make everybody -- >> could he do some kind of proxy fight? who knows. the shareholder base is so wide, it's so big. could he do that? he made it clear he's not done yet. >> that makes it fun. >> isn't it amazing that tim cook is willing to sit down with him? could you imagine this happening with steve jobs? i don't think so. i'm answering

bill gross at pimco, really blasted carl icahn. you know what carl icahn, leave apple alone. should be more like bill gates, spend more time helping people and not yourself. tracy: lizzie, you and i both know, share buyback is accounting trickery. >> yeah it is. tracy: it is same thing at the end of the day. >> you know what the other thing that's a good point you make. apple need that money. tracy: yeah. >> it needs the cashing because it is expanding in china. it is getting blasted by critics on wall street for doing constant upgrade and doesn't really have a good, feeling on wall street, the pipeline is running a little bit dry of the we know apple tv is coming but upgrades of products into infinity you can't do forever, right? so it needs the cash. ashley: icahn's argument is if you sit on the massive pile of cash at least do something for investors and provide more buyback of the shares to give them more value. >> he is saying you could borrow in the bond market at 2.3%. i get what he is saying. tracy: if they have the cash why go there, why do it? >> already returning 1

. > >so you don't think icahn is gonna be turning into an opportunity to buy? > >the thing is that he's got huge money and he can always add to his position. apple is a pretty big position for him. however, i don't like what the company is doing. i'm on the show a lot talking about their innovation. we haven't seen anything innovative. i have the iphone 5s and there's really nothing different about. the apple tv is supposed to come out by this time already. they haven't bought twitter. they're not doing acquisitions. i don't really think they're doing the right innovative things to make the stock go higher. but they do have big money pushing the stock high right now. > >the other company, google. you do have some optimism there. > >google reports earnings later this week. if you look at the way the chart looks, it has kind of consolidated here around that 870 level. i think it can push through 900 on later this week. i will put on a options position for earnings to the bullish side. i think the short term low is in on thursday. just like the stock market---the

speaking of carl icahn, i spoke to him last night. he told me about ackman's move and noting to carl he's made about $500 million on herbalife and said i'm happy i made the profit. i think his purchase of the options is a jush shus one because i continue to believe the company is meaningfully under valued. steve weiss, comment? >> never gets old. that's my first comment. such a great exchange. look, in my view and the view of a lot of others including carl, an irresponsible short position, such a big part of the float and so public about it and clearly he's saying you know what, i'm trying to manage my way out of this, like he did with jc penney he got out. i don't know what happens with the company at the end of the day but what i do know is, that this still will be pressure on the shares in terms of a squeeze going higher despite him getting out of a lot of that. >> all this run up on the thought that there was going to be this gigantic buyback and short squeeze. maybe ackman at the end of the day has price waterhouse to thank becau

we have to start with carl icahn. he boosted his stake in apple to 4.7 million shares as part of his campaign for a 150 billion stock buyback. that is about all the cash they have on hand. unlikely they will use all of it for that. fellow billionaire bill gross of pimco told icahn. leave apple alone. help other people instead like bill gates does ja latest weekly job countless claims fell less than forecast the labor department said the total dropped about 12,000 to the level of 350,000 last week. david: the commerce department saying that the u.s. trade gap increased slightly in august to 38.8 billion. the amount of goods imported from china was the highest since november last year. liz: ford's stock is higher after the automaker reported better than expected third quarter earnings. ford also boosted its third quarter operating profit forecast. david: parent of united airlines disappointed investors with its earnings. the carrier missed wall street estimates. the ceo says the airline is taking prompt action to boost

it's the same thing carl icahn is arguing to apple. yes, maybe you're satisfying the sales growth contract, but you have weapons at your disposal. what is it? it's the massive amount of cash you have sitting on your balance sheet, and additionally, the interest rate environment that's so incredibly low, your cost of capital is low. that's a tailwind. >> but both their businesses are under attack from the competition. their hardware business is under attack from amazon, everybody else. their services business is under attack from the whole industry, and those contracts now are being won on price, as it's difficult to discern the product offering from each company. so that's going to keep pressure. we do have an unproven ceo there who hasn't exactly distinguished herself. so we have to ask if the prior ceo is really rung all he could out of margins. however, you want to buy for buybacks, giving back to shareholders, that's one thing. >> well, that's -- >> that's important. >> that's, in part, what drove the rally to where we are now. >>

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finance magazines about what to buy and when and buy on this pull back but i look at a guy like carl icahn who earlier this week sold half his very, very rich stake -- >> that worked out pretty well. >> that worked out well. but what he was doing there was executing on a sale discipline he had. how important for an investor the moment they buy a stock to know when they will sell it? >> well, ideally you would like to have an entry point and exit point and that's maybe more of a trade, but investors have to think to themselves, i have an idea in my mind whether it's through buying somebody's research or using our analyst here what is fair value? if momentum takes it above fair value, you should start looking for ways to peel off a little bit of the money you have, profit you've had, 20% of the stock, 50% of the stock but if it's a good quality stock you think has room to return in the long term, you don't want to completely cut out of that stock because who knows if you'll get back into it. >> which is what icon did, he sold half the stake he said earlier today in an interview, he said i ma