trust the irs. the commissioner himself did not tell the whole truth in front of our committee when he knew there was a problem with these emails his agency leaked to the white house months before we ever got told. remember, greta, you would not know about the additional emails if we hadn't got -- subpoenaed and gotten documents from the department of justice and then asked them on monday what about these documents and on friday they bury in a report trying to say oh, by the way, there are these lost two years of emails. >> one quick question. when is your next hearing and who are you going to call? >> well, we did not adjourn either of the two hearings we had. so we can recall either of those witnesses at any time. right now as your earlier interviews indicated. we are starting to go through depositions of professionals inside the system. if you look at the 61 questions we asked, in the interrogatory, we did so so we could figure out who it is we talked to to get to the truth on these. additionally

has the irs known since february? >> the irs new in february there was an issue. as noted we all had e-mails from ms. lerner last fall and which she recited she had had a hard drive crashed. >> in favor you knew that he knows were missing? >> in february what we knew was there's problem because we're looking at it from the standpoint of what the time frame was in which her e-mails appeared, and it appeared that were not enough e-mails in that time frame. >> so why didn't the irs notify congress at the time it was a problem with the potential loss of the e-mails we were investigating? >> because i thought it was important, it was my decision that we complete the investigation so we could fully advise you as to what the situation was. >> i got a letter to just two days ago that said treasury contacted the white house in april, in april of this year to tell them about the lost e-mails. who told of the treasury department? >> part in? >> who told of the treasury? the letter i received said treasury told them at april 2014. so my question is who told the treasury depar

this whole irs mess seems to flow directly from confusion over just how the irs should enforce a law that was passed by this congress that gives tax exempt status to not for profits but only if they are essentially politically nonpartisan. and what the irs was looking at is whether these activities of these nonfor profits really merited being tax exempt because they're getting 100% deduction and putting a great deal of money into political campaigns. now, we don't have. >> would the gentle lady yield? >> you probably were not here when this was discussed but 501c4s do not get 100% deduction. you're not tax. >> not at all? >> not a penny. they are tax exempt in the money they receive from taxpayers who have paid their taxes and give them after tax income, they don't count it as profit. they simply spend it on their baffle but they are not tax deductible the way a charity is. it's a very significant difference. it is one of the reasons they can do up to half of their activities in these. these are social welfare groups, not charities. >> but they're social welfare groups and they don't

the irs in washington, d.c. took their marching orders and subjected americans to harassment going so far as to question the content of the prayers and their political beliefs while subjecting them to audits and leaking the personal taxpayer information. when the scandal first broke out the president vowed his admission he would work at the quote hand in hand with congress to get this thing fixed. this spring, commissioner koskinen can you said your goal was to quote find problems quickly, fix them properly, make sure they stay fixed and be transparent about the entire process. well since my time in congress i've never seen an irs so broken. late last friday the irs admitted to congress that the agency had lost over two years worth of lois lerner e-mails and blamed the loss on a computer crash. my committee staff later learned in an interview that it wasn't only ms. lerner's e-mails, e-mails of six other individuals willing to this investigation, including the former acting commissioners chief of staff. and just

the irs new this. you see where i'm coming from the if you knew it so long ago why is it so difficult to just tell people the truth? not make using you but this is a very dangerous slope we're on. when do we tell the american people the truth? that truthfully right now we're not going to get an answer to what you're asking us. i just don't get it. what is the strategy as you move forward? how do you restore the faith and confidence of the people of the united states in this agency and in this body? we've all taken an oath to defend the constitution and yet there are two sets of rules. one for the general public, one for your agency. general public is not allowed to keep that record. general public is not allowed to have hard drives crash. the general public is not allowed to do some of the same things we've allowed the agency to do, which they don't understand. i can going back to our conversation on tuesday, where do you see this going because i does the upright into this anywhere along the way. at th

talk to your irs caseworker. i can give you 12 more. i did i.r.s. casework. americans fear the irs. and now it is unfortunately with the pattern of delay and the disrespect and defeat in many cases there is no credibility. this isn't good for our country. and my hope is that you can clean this up. i have to tell you i don't even have a question for you. this is amazingly awful. it's absolutely awful. this isn't partisan. just talk to your caseworkers. thicaseworker's.this is not par. this is just americans frustrated with the arrogance of an agency that is above the law and that their opinion. i yield back. >> the first thing i did preparing for today's hearing was to talk with my caseworkers were constituents service representatives as we call them in austin and san antonio and what i found, commissioner, is when 250 irs employees spend over 120,000 hours in almost $20 million on responding to congress, those employees are not able to respond to their ordinary duties. i found for example that as far as the nonprofit community service organizations that the office of the cultural ce

i think you should ask the irs. >> i'm asking you. you were the irs at that point. you were the person in the room they were reporting to. you come with great title. tell me who you were interacting with. >> the team had some 6103 experts on it. it had some tax litigateors on it. >> who? who? name a person. i want xa names. honestly, i would like to be able to have accurate and complete testimony. it's going to be hard for me to re-create it. >> can you name even one person that you interacted with? >> i interacted with mr. warful a lot. >> we assume that. those are the people you reported to. i want to talk about who reported to you. name some people that reported to you. >> i think that best way to do it is -- >> i know. but you're here in front of congress. you knew this was going to happen. name one person you interacted with. >> i interact with a lot of people. >> i know. name somebody. >> who i interacted with? >> yes. >> the deputy chief council chris turner. >> anybody in the i.t. arena? >> i didn't actually interact directly with people in the i.t. arena. t

has the irs known since february? >> the irs new in february there was an issue. as noted we all had e-mails from ms. lerner last fall and which she recited she had had a hard drive crashed. >> in favor you knew that he knows were missing? >> in february what we knew was there's problem because we're looking at it from the standpoint of what the time frame was in which her e-mails appeared, and it appeared that were not enough e-mails in that time frame. >> so why didn't the irs notify congress at the time it was a problem with the potential loss of the e-mails we were investigating? >> because i thought it was important, it was my decision that we complete the investigation so we could fully advise you as to what the situation was. >> i got a letter to just two days ago that said treasury contacted the white house in april, in april of this year to tell them about the lost e-mails. who told of the treasury department? >> part in? >> who told of the treasury? the letter i received said treasury told them at april 2014. so my question is who told the treasury depar

the irs back then resisted. third, we know that this became public in an act of deceit when lois lerner tried to get this out on her own terms. fourth, we know she's taken the fifth amendment because she has the right to do this when there's a reasonable suspicion there might be criminal activity involved. fifth, we know from the timeline you put up today that there's been 13 months of stone walling on this. six, now we know that not only her hard drive, but six other people intimately involved in this, suddenly crashed in an amazing, miraculous coincidence. religions have been founded on less. ten days after the investigate started. that's why we need a special prosecutor. >> judy, the irs scandal, i think it's fair to say, seemed to be fading for lack of new information. does the case of the missing e-mails give it new life? >> well, what i can say, chris, is i haven't reported this story. i don't know what happened inside the irs. but what i can say is i've known john for 30 years. he is a man of total integr

the irs back then resisted. thirst, we know this became public in an act of deceit when lois lerner planted a question with a friend in an audience to try to get this out in her own terms. fourth, we know she has taken the fifth amendment because she has a right to do this when she has a reasonable suspicion there might be criminal activity involved. fifth, we know from the timeline you put up today, there has been 13 months of stonewalling on this. and sixth, now we know that not only her hard drive but six other people intimately involved in this suddenly crashed in an amazing miraculous coincidence. religions have been founded on less, ten days after the investigation started. that's why we need a special prosecutor. >> the irs scandal, i think it's fair to say, seemed to be faded, for lack of new information. does the case of the missing e-mails give it new life? >> well, what i can say, chris, is i haven't reported this story. i don't know what happened inside the irs. but what i can say is i have known joh

>> the irs is nonpartisan. doesn't mean they can't have an interest in understanding the importance of the presidential election. >> but they're not supposed to have the back one part of you or another, are they? >> the hatch act does not prohibit irs employees on their own -- >> in their official duty. >> in their official duty it's absolutely prohibited. >> so, my question is about self-interest. do you believe that employees at the irs can remain objective when analyzing the tax implications of groups of people that want them to lose their jobs? >> lose their jobs? i think so. i think that they're professionals, they're dedicated -- >> i have no doubt in their professionalism. i'm not asking you about that. i'm asking about their new centrality and how it affects their objectivity do you believe any person can sustain objectivity towards someone that they perceive as the threat to their livelihood? >> i think they could be objective about it. i'm objective about continuing to hear. this is my eighth hearing

the irs has apologized. the question that makes this interesting and the question that a special prosecutor would pursue is where does this lead? how high up does it go? it's gone from cincinnati to the irs and now it's stopped. why? people say well there's nothing that's connect this to the white house. let's go back to watergate for just a moment. the watergate scandal began because one of the burglars in the watergate building was connected to the building to re-elect the president. it would never have gotten to nixon but for the tapes that showed richard nixon plotting obstruction of justice in the oval office. now if richard nixon had done what john conley and others recommend he do burn the tapes he would have served his full term. something equivalent to burning the tapes may have happened with the hard drive of lois lerner. >> juan, it is fair to say looking at those sound bites we just listened to jay carney was wrong when he said two rogue agents in cincinnati were responsible for this and the pres

in this letter the irs reported the loss of e-mail records of lois lerner, the former head of irs and exempt organization division dating from 2009 to 2011 as the result of a failure of hard drive. we asked the irs to investigate the alleged disposal of records and whether it was broader than was reported in the june 13th, 20 2014 letter. we asked for a response within 30 days. on a daily basis, professionals worked to ensure records management policies and practices protect the rights of the government and citizens and identify the permanently valuable records that document the national experience. in november of 2011, the president issued a memorandum on managing government records, which result eed in issuing the management government records directive in august 2012. goals to require electronic record keeping to ensure transparency, efficiency and accountability and demonstrate compliance with statutes and regulations. there are a number of activities associated with these goals but the action is by the end of 2016 federal agencies must manage all e-mail records in an electronic f

it is hard to love the irs, but it should not be hard to trust the irs. the american people deserve this agency which was previously believed to be non-partisan, they need to be able to trust that it will once again become non-partisan, non-political. your agency has a set of rules for taxpayers and apparently another set for themselves. the american people understand that if they cannot prove that they did the right thing in their tax return five, six, and seven years ago it will be disallowed the land they will pay taxes and penalty. welcome in fact of you maintain only six months of records and that apparently count on people good and bad to maintain documents they think are important beyond that and do so without safeguards to protect the iraqi people from the laws of those documents. commissioner, tonight you will say that you have produced dozens of documents. it will be an impressive number. quite frankly, that production is pushing a button and printing documents out and that having people scratch out almost everything of value, in many cases. it

the irs is frying hard drives, the v.a. is drowning in paper. is there any record keeping medium that the government could use that could work for them? microfiche? we'll do it. stone tablets? we'll do it. we could take a page out of the ancient greeks. weave all of our important information into an epic poem and pass down from generations over a federal archival oral tradition from bard to apprentice, but you probably lose that page. unless, wait a minute, i know what's going on here. you're tired of governing us, aren't you? and so you're kind of acting like assholes so we break up with you. well, look, i know we're not perfect as constituents and we've been in this relationship for 200 years, probably take you a little bit for granted. we want everything and don't want to pay for anything. [laughter] every yeardown birthday we throw a huge party and pretend it's for you, but it's really just chance for us to get [bleeped] up and stare at the sky between 9:00 p.m. and 9:25. look, the point is this, government. no matter what you get right, we'

that's his biggest problem. >> does anybody like the irs. anyone saying boo who for the irs? >> i don't think so. >> you don't know anyone? no one is saying boo who for the irs. >> pretty rich when they ask us to save our records for seven years. >> hard drive graveyard. >> i don't have my records because i have aged equipment. anyway, panel, as always, thank you very much. and thank you for being with us. watch the hearing live all night on gretawire.com. stay on fox news, good night from washington. >>> tonight on "red eye." >> coming up on "red eye," has belgium finally realized their dream of of duplicating the excitement of nascar some say they are stuck behind the modern racist worlds. is the president upset the united states has yet to produce an actor like gerard de pardue? >> if france can figure it out we can figure it out. and finally the world's best looking dogs strutting their stuff. who took home the title of the world's sexiest canine? stay tuned to find out. >> now let's welcome our

republicans have long claimed the irs violated the law. and as chief congressional correspondent mike emmanuel tells me even though federal workers say they may have crossed the line in

is there a cover up somewhere in the irs? obviously in my mind there is. i think the most damning part of this is her taking the fifth. from that point forward there's a trigger of events whether she was responsible for it alone or whatever. but to suggest that somehow it's a white house cover up is -- >> he said i don't know 20 times. trey gowdy points out he didn't look up the statutes. >> i will say this. i agree -- i've never heard a committee of congress be that rough on somebody. >> would you be wasting your time apologizing to this guy. >> you got to ask why are they kissing up to this guy? because he's a donor. it's like a hooker going after your pimp. i haven't seen this kind of cover-up since robin williams played "mrs. doubtfire." what does it take for the mainstream media to care that irs have to execute tea partiers or have to say i hope these bullets recyclable. the irs scandal, with the va stuff, the p.o.w., it shows every part of the obama apple is bad. used to be able to eat around the worm. now it's all worm and no apple. >> you pointed o

the irs is the problem. that's the problem. >> and the question is are we going to get to the bottom line here ultimately were they able and capable of destroying all the evidence? 90% of the american people fox news polled, jay, think that the irs -- that these files were deliberately destroyed, these e-mails. even 74% of independents and 63% of democrats. this seems to be a growing scandal, cancer is beginning to sort of work its way certainly around the irs, maybe the white house? >> i think so, sean. there is no way that these e-mails vanished, okay. first of all, there are recipients of these e-mails and are they going to come out and say all the recipients that received lois lerner's e-mails. they floated the idea saying there were six other crashes put out there, may not be able to recover those, backtracked on those. we're in serious litigation right now. if they exist we're going to find them. if they do not exist then the presumption is what we've alleged in the complaints are true. sean, you now k

or affected by the irs' work. you will see it in mississippi tha d cochran is trying to make it a campaign he has experience with military issues with the situation in iraq imploding. and in maryland, there are concerns about obama care and the fact that the state- run exchange had problem and the democrat was partly responsible for that. and so it will contribute. it is driving voter disgust and republicans will drive the voters to the polls. >> democrats are are left in an uncomfortable position of defending the irs over pretty outramous coincidences you could say. >> you don't want to be on that side of a political argument. the irs is pretty much union versally loathed if the that have to make a holestic argument. and if you don't what the irs is doing and find out information. wait until they have bureaucracies on something that touches you every day when it is something like health care. >> the irs set to be running the financial and record side of the affordable care act. that will be a joy. that will keep

some saying the ir s' -- sayinge irs' failure to do something about the missing emails is a coverup. >> i believe what happened was a crime, i believe there are other emails involved. and i bleach somebody took a criminal act in this destruction and i believe since you can't tell me i'm wrong and there is enough of a doubt in your mind, as the commissioner of the fbi you should called the fbi. martha: such claims are raying questions whether a special prosecutor should be brought in to find out where those emails went. some people feel the justice department will never call for a special prosecutor in this case. bill: i want to bring in steve hayes. you find what, inconsistencies and inaccuracies in what koskinen has testified to so far? >> last night there were so much things that didn't mawch. sometimes with what he said previously and sometimes moments earlier. at one point in the same sentence he declared he hadn't notified anybody about the missing emails because he had been advised that he shouldn't tell anybody about the missing emails. the obvious question is who advised him

and irs scandals. we will give you the facts and bernie goldberg will analyze. >> we came out of the white house not only dead broke but in debt. >> i still get emotional just thinking about it. [ laughter ] >> so what happens to stuart and colbert if the obama administration and the democratic party go down? we'll answer that question.

the irs look good. i've got to ask you, many americans find the actions of the irs to be very disheartening at best. here's why. this is an agency you would have to agree that can investigate you. >> yes. >> charge you, punish you and treat you like you're guilty without ever presuming you're innocent. >> uh-huh. >> given that scenario, you still want to hold on to the fact that this was vamping and political theater? >> yes, i do. >> why? >> for a couple of reasons. one, in this whole process, this is actually has been foerlgten. it wasn't just conservative groups that were targeted. >> but they proved at the hearing -- >> let me be clear. here on fox we have stated it's not just the tea party but also liberal groups. but angela, getting to the poichbt, is this political theater when president obama once said of the irs tea party matter that there is not a smidgeon of corruption in the irs, yet we see this situation where the hard drive 0 is gone when you want to get to the e-mails to find out how many

sic'ing the irs on nor grassley. republicans say if she was ready to go after the former chairman of the finance commiee imagine what she was whimming to do to the less powerful across the country. bill: how is senator grassley reacting to this? >> he's concerned that's a mixup got the irs turning for extra scrutiny for somebody. he says this fuels the concern about the irs targeting republicans at the highest levels. we found this exchange and perhaps we'll find some more, then what's in the missing emails. bill: on the investigative front what's the highest on that. >> in the senate they have been doing a bipartisan investigation. after all this has come up in the house hearings. orrin hatch is pressing the chairman of the committee to hold an open hearing. hatch has also written letters to the attorney general and the head of the federal election commission and the treasury secretary trying to find out if they have any of lois lerner's emails. but do these other agencies have learner's emails? hatch ising for more

the irs story is the same. the administration, the irs hasn't been straightforward with the american people from the outset. the reason i think this resonates to your point is the obvious double standard. if you are audited commie don't have the option to say to the irs it was on my computer, i don't have it anymore, sorry, i cannot provide the information. you're going to have to go back and re-create all the information that is missing whether it is missing for legitimate reasons or not. bill: otherwise you will be fined, or worse. republican from ohio, he was just talking as well. it runs about 90 seconds, let's listen to this. >> if the president would have asked me to be commissioner of the irs and i found out in may, april, march, february what you found out. rather than barry at in a letter on page 15, here's what i would have done. just as a suggestion because of the lack of confidence in the american people and this committee have because of how our constituents are treated differently and how the irs

first it was the irs. now another government agency losing thousands of e-mails after a hard drive crash. coincidence or criminal. we report you decide. >> perhaps the best story of the day, usa, usa. we are hours away from america facing off against top ranked germany. we will go life to where a whole lot of americans will be spending their lunch break today. "fox & friends" continues right now. >> look at that shot. american flag flying in the forefront. it is thursday. it is june 26th. welcome to "fox & friends first". i am ainsley earhardt. >> i am heather nauert. great to be with you today. i am in for heather childers. we begin with the chaos. an electronic music concert in boston. thousands of people rushed to the hospital -- excuse me. dozens of people rushed to the hospital because of drugs and alcohol. >> anna kooiman is here to give us the details. >> good morning ladies. this show featuring the dj avicii. the hit song "wake me up." ♪ >> late last night this was the scene outside of the avicii

did not know the details of it. >> your testimony said, we, meaning the irs. >> the irs. >> now you're saying you did not know that so you were -- even though you're the commissioner you're not in the loop. here's the issue. >> good. >> going back and forth with you at the march hearing and you basically told him, we will get leadershipper's e-mails they're stored in servers -- what you said -- now, my question for you is, why say that if you knew, one there was a problem with lerner e-mails and, two, you knew the backup tapes were only saved for six months. why tell chafen you could retrieve it. >> at that time we had pulled all of the e-mails from her hard drive and put them in a server system known as clearwell; it's pool. it has -- >> i understand that. your testimony -- there was reason in mid-february there were not enough e-mails so whatever pool you head, the time period in question of the computer crash, you testified there was a possibility that this was coming up short. so the question is, you made a choice that you testified not disclose this back to congress. you have been

on the irs, the commissioner the irs refusing to apologize after thousands of e-mails subpoenaed by congress simply disappeared. plus the obama administration dealing with a surge in immigrant children in a southern border. pope francis comes out against legalizing marijuana and other recreational drugs. but first, u.s. military advisors on their way to iraq trying to bolster against sunni militants. welcome to this new hour of "happening now." lee. there are new threats to the safety. a shiite cleric warning the americans they will be attacked. >> meanwhile kuredish forces are taking advantage of the vacum left by fleeing iraqi forces. there are growing calls for a change in leadership saying the embattled prime minister maliki is unable to stop the sectarian violence. jon is live in the mideast bureau with the latest. >> reporter: jon, as far as the violence goes. isil militants are gearing up for a assault in the oil reserve in iraq. if the refinery were to fall in rebel hands, it could fuel the military capability. they have had a path of death and destruction through a large swath of ir

it's hard to love the irs, but it should not be hard to trust the irs. the american people deserve this agency, which was previously believed to be nonpartisan, they need to be able to trust that it will once again become nonpartisan, nonpolitical. your agency has a set of rules for taxpayers and apparently another set of rules for themselves. the american people understand if they cannot prove that they did the right thing on their tax return five, six, and seven years ago, they will be disallowed and pay taxes with penalty. in fact, you maintain only six months of record and then apparently count on people, good and bad, to maintain documents they think are important beyond that, and you do so without safeguards to protect the american people from the loss of those documents. commissioner, tonight you will say you have produced thousands of documents. it will be an impressive number. quite frankly, that production is pushing a button and printing documents out and then having people scratch out almost everything of value in many cases. it is not produc

is there a cover up somewhere in the irs? obviously in my mind there is. i think the most damning part of this is her taking the fifth. from that point forward there's a trigger of events whether she was responsible for it alone or whatever. but to suggest that somehow it's a white house cover up is -- >> he said i don't know 20 times. trey gowdy points out he didn't look up the statutes. >> i will say this. i agree -- i've never heard a committee of congress be that rough on somebody. >> would you be wasting your time apologizing to this guy. >> you got to ask why are they kissing up to this guy? because he's a donor. it's like a hooker going after your pimp. i haven't seen this kind of cover-up since robin williams played "mrs. doubtfire." what does it take for the mainstream media to care that irs have to execute tea partiers or have to say i hope these bullets recyclable. the irs scandal, with the va stuff, the p.o.w., it shows every part of the obama apple is bad. used to be able to eat around the worm. now it's all worm and no apple. >> you pointed o

we learn that irs also misplaceed or lost the e-mails of 6 additional irs employees involved in the irs targets scandal, then we learned that the irs has known about those misplaceed roars of e-mails for some time, one i-t expert, with 30 years of experience consulting for among others apple, motorola, and sprint, describes the irs claims that lost lerner's e-mails as mind boggling, it is not just one i-tic pher expert who has sd forward and saying they are not boeing those excuses, to a person, that does not happen. >> a former program manager with microsoft said he does not know of any e-mail administrator who does not have at leaf three ways of -- at least three-ways of retrieving e-mails either on the hard drives or back up or archive server, those e-mails are universally, backed unin some medium for a long-term storage. the irs sta*euplts that those e-mails don't exist, is a lie. the white house and the irs stonewall appears have to entered a new phase today, we have seen this however before. so-called missing 8 1/2 minutes of oddio tape in watergate, to stonewall as obama whit