the c.i.a., cuba, and the assassination. newman is the author of "jfk and vietnam." this program is about an hour and 20 minutes. >> "the small secrets need to be protected. the large ones are kept secret by public incredulity." marshall mcluhan. the gospel of thomas includes the following, "jesus said, know what is in front of your face and what is hidden will be disclosed. there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed and nothing -- that will not be raised." our speaker is a former army intelligence officer, an expert in far eastern studies, a scholar of christian theology, and historian, educator, and an author whose research has led to revelations about america's hidden histories. the author of 1992's "jfk and vietnam," and "oswald and the c.i.a.," updated for the 2008 edition. and most recently 2011 "quest for the kingdom, the secret teachings of jesus." i'm honored to introduce dr. john newman. and he will introduce his assistant jay. welcome, dr. john newman. [applause] >> we live wit

the c.i.a., cuba, and the assassination. newman is the author of "jfk and vietnam." this program is about an hour and 20 minutes. >> the small secrets need to be protected. the large ones are kept secret by public incredulity. marshall mcluhan. the gospel of thomas includes the following, "jesus said know what is in front of your face and what is hidden will be disclosed. there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed and nothing. that will not be raised." our speaker is a former army intelligence officer, an expert in far eastern studies, a scholar of christian theology, and historian, educator, and an author whose research has led to revelations about america's hidden histories. jfk andhor of 1992's "f vietnam," and " oswald and the c.i.a.," updated for the 2008 edition. and most recently 2011 "quest for the kingdom, the secret teachings of jesus." i'm honored to introduce dr. john newman. and he will introduce his assistant jay. welcome, dr. john newman. [applause] he mic?ive with te good.

the c.i.a.'s interrogation tactics. in 2009 the intelligence committee launched its investigation three years later, the 5,000 classified report was finalized. the cia disputed some of the conclusions. earlier this year, senators learned the c.i.a. searched senate computers without notifying the committee. and, in april, the committee voted to release a summary of the report. but the c.i.a. has insisted on more redactions to protect agency assets and secrets. we will hear from a former cia official in a moment. but we begin with a member of the senate intelligence committee, senator ron wyden of oregon. senator, welcome to the program. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: why is it you want this report released? >> usedy, the c.i.a. leadership maintained for years that torturing prisoners was essential to obtaining information, that we weren't able to get the information we needed to protect our country without torture. what this report shows is that a number of the claims that the c.i.a. leadership

and he got the c.i.a. director to go down to south central, an unprecedented event, to take questions from the african american community. two reports were released. i think that vindicates this man, that he did connect some dots. but it's clear he didn't get to follow up. he didn't have that machine behind him to push him through. >> is there a lesson about what happens in this film? do you see it about what happens when you try to take on something? as big as the c.i.a.? >> a lesson? no, i'd certain le see it as a david and goliath story. that's one of the things i was attracted to. i love that theme. those sort of themes are really attractive to me. are there lessons from that? i don't know. hopefully, it's a variety of things. and i'm excited to see what those things are. i'm really excited about it. i want to see that debate and those feelings. so i'm excited what the lessons are. >> that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow" show starts right now. >> if you watched any of the news today,

of the c.i.a. director of the office of management budget and chief of staff of president clinton talks about his new memoir thurty of fights a memoir of leadership and war and peace and about president obama. >> i think that the president and congress and whatever reason cannot confront the issues important to this country. >> rose: bob gates said the same thing in his book. >> i think that we are looking at a moment in time in the 21st century where the issue is going to be are we going to governor this country by leadership or by crises. if leadership is there and takes the risks associated with leadership then we can avoid crises. if not we're governed by crises and that's largely how we're governing today. >> rose: leon panetta for the hour, next. >> and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: few people in the history of our government have held

so this guy uncovers this idea that the c.i.a. is involved in the nicaraguan civil war on the side of the contras, and allowing drug dealers access to selling drugs in the united states so that money can be funneled into their military. >> right congress wanted nothing to do with funding that war. >> jon: anymore. because they had already been doing that. >> yeah. >> jon: exactly. >> they went down that road. >> jon: web publishes this in a small newspaper in san jose, and then the world explodes on him. >> explodes in a good way at first. when the internet first came out, this is when it-- viral wasn't even really a word at that point. it really exploded, like a million hits a day were happening in 1995, mind you. so it really started taking off, and it created, not riots, but a lot of uproar in african american communities and throughout their country -- >> the idea for them, too, is the government is flooding our communities-- this is in the middle of this crack epidemic in the 80s-- flooding our communities with these drugs an

the pentagon wants to get in on the c.i.a.'s turf, and so they created these front companies to act like the c.i.a. does around the world and in this case there are all kinds of allegations about whether some of the people involved were taking advantage of the operation. >> woodruff: at one point they were talking about assassinating and... >> yes, and one of the foreigners involved the operation tried to, allegedly tried to use the bank accounts, or wanted to use the bank accounts set up by "alarbus" for money laundering. for massive money laundering.ç hundreds of millions of dollars. >> woodruff: and so the government would have been engaged in this. >> right.ç >> woodruff: but it didn't actually happen. >> no, no but there was an fbi investigation that has been secret, until now, of what happened. >> woodruff: in another chapter, jim risen, you write about millions of dollars spent on programs that were completely fraudulent. one was run by a man named dennis montgomery. he had worked in computer software but he was a ga

out and the c.i.a. saying yeah, we have some part of it and it's kind of tragic. >> the story wasn't just the c.i.a. trying to derail him and tear this story apart. there was something in the media business. and i remember thinking this before it even happened. if you're a major publication, how does this dude at the san jose mercury news get this maid jor story. how do you do this? people are steadfast in what happened. i think the overall reflection, people can look like background with what they've done. it's obviously a travesty. there's been so much time spent on tearing a story apart versus furthering a story. out of big media, you know. >> how much of this story is about the con testation of people who got addicted to crack? >> there are two people here. >> it was a tough thing there's ten movies for what gary uncovered can't tell all of the story. so we have to be careful not to go too far into the downstream of what happened in life. this is really kind of brushing on it to show the expansivene

jonathan beal had worked for the c.i.a. for 11 years and was said to have been gina mcarthur's right-hand man. his expertise was global warming. he's a big deal up there. they found out and looked. he was gone most of the time. he kept getting glowing performance reviews. he kept getting raise after raise. he's great. they actually asked, why doesn't he come to work, and his boss said, well, he works also for the c.i.a. they're like for the c.i.a. and the e.p.a. both? what a combination. then they did something really extraordinary. they call the c.i.a. and asked about jonathan beal. they said jonathan who? they'd never heard him. he probably makes $150,000 a year. 100,000 federal workers make over $100,000 a year. and they were all nonessential. just imagine him by the pool. he's got to have a pool. he's by the pool, his boss calls. they're like, jonathan with you -- are you coming in today? no. i'm in istanbul on secret assignment. you remember the v.a. scandal? what was the biggest part of the v.a. scandal? even when we

you as somebody who worked in the c.i.a. used to gathering intelligence on north korea. >> north korea was referred to as the c.i.a. as the hardest of the hard targets. in often cases a wilderness of mirrors. there's much we don't know and certainly the motivation for the release right now, we'll be wait for additional information. there are things we do know, particularly given the track record of north korea. we've seen them arrest and then release americans, whether by a senior envoy visit or in this case, no, and some have predicted that this would be north korea turning over a new leaf under this new leader or his predecessors. not so far. >> this leader disappeared for over a month and a week ago he reappeared suddenly. what do you make of that? >> again, two groups. one was health, the other was political intrigue, coup or assassination. i think most of us thought hfts a health situation. we weren't seeing evidence for a coup or invasion situation. so it's some kind of either minor or medium level medical issue, but t

than the secret service. >> congress doesn't have moreover sight of the c.i.a. than it does of the secret service. only few members of congress know what is going on and we don't know what is going on in the secret service. at least we have a few knowing what is going on -- we don't have anybody that knew there were secrets we needed to know about the secret service. >> it might be true she came to the position because of the prostitution scandal in colombia. but to be honest these lapses define the fact that this is a boy's club and they need to clean house in this boys club. >> is that going to happen? >> i think so. i think the committee wants i was the first one to say, i don't think this is a personnel problem. put somebody on top of that and you have a culture that is scary. so you need somebody who is going to say this place i'm starting anew. this is 21st century secret service. >> what how do you start anew? clear out all top managers? >> how you start is top to bottom investigation we don't know enough to start. that would be the most responsible way a

nation's security. >> when the head of the c.i.a. tells you that publishing something will endanger the national security of the country, you can't tell them to jump in the labelling. >> reporter: another president, president obama awarded br bradaccommodation for challenging power >>> let's talk to the presenter of "the listen thing post." richard, the watergate scandal and the ensuing resignation will be a dim and murky episode. remind us how significant and what a huge event that was. >> well, it was hugely significant the first time an american president was brought down, by the media "the washington post." journalism schools exploded in size. thousands of journalists were sent out the door into the market every year. it's an interesting time. could it happen today, could the same journalism occur in america today as in 1972, "74? i'd say it's not impossible, but highly unlikely. journalist are only as good as their editors allow them to be. editors are only as bray as openers allow them to be. "the washington post" was opened by

this, believe it or not, the c.i.a. took this so seriously they grounded planes in europe and mexico bound for the united states based on information in which they thought they had uncovered al qaeda codes buried in the al jazeera... >> and it was nonsense. >> well, there's absolutely no evidence of any of this was ever true, and it's very difficult to believe that the c.i.a. and the bush administration took it as seriously as they did. >> something that was serious, it was a big story. you described it as the most important story of your life, which was about another of the reactions that happened to inch, which was that the n.s.a. was conducting warrantless surveillance of american citizens. that was a tremendous battle for you to get that printed. >> right, right. it took a year. >> the "new york times" printed it once you were going to come out with a book about if. >> yes, yes. >> in the end, looking back, was that warrantless surveillance, to put it, unwarranted. because, you know, people really were worried about

the video tape from al jazeera, that he and the c.i.a. came to believe they could read al qaeda-coded messages in. this, believe it or not, the c.i.a. took this so seriously they grounded planes in europe and mexico bound for the united states based on information in which they thought they had uncovered al qaeda codes buried in the al jazeera... >> and it was nonsense. >> well, there's absolutely no evidence of any of this was ever true, and it's very difficult to believe that the c.i.a. and the bush administration took it as seriously as they did. >> something that was serious, it was a big story. you described it as the most important story of your life, which was about another of the reactions that happened to inch, which was that the n.s.a. was conducting warrantless surveillance of american citizens. that was a tremendous battle for you to get that printed. >> right, right. it took a year. >> the "new york times" printed it once you were going to come out with a book about if. >> yes, yes. >> in the end, looking back, was that warra

c.i.a. and is now our cbs news senior security contributor. michael what, is your view of the possibility of an attack here in the united states? >> scott, i am now more worried than i have been in years about an attack here. and it's not just the isis self-radicalized individuals that i worry about. it's isis sending a fighter here to conduct an attack. it's that we still have to worry about al qaeda in pakistan. we still have to worry about al qaeda in yemen, and we still have to worry, scott, about that group in syria called the corsign group. we still have to worry about all of that. that's what makes me so worried, scott. >> reporter: they're still digging through all of his background files, scott, his communications, his phone logs, his travel history, and they know that he had some associations, very loose associations with other jihadis. we understand, for example, his e-mail was found on the hard drive of a man who had been arrested in a terror investigation in canada. but so far,

this is, of course, the great failure on the c.i.a. and the intelligence in general. these days, they don't emphasize the collection of human intelligence. >> it's very difficult. on one level, i want to say you could look at the c.i.a. or u.s. intelligence committee as a string of each other. they didn't an tis pat the berlin wall coming down. you could turn around and also say this is very difficult work. these agencies get very good at hedging their bets and then covering for themselves if something goes very wrong. and i think that's where we're seeing play at right now. >> yeah, exactly. there are a long list of intelligence failures. look at the 1979 revolution in iran. no one predicted it. the collapse of the cold war. everyone thought that the soviet union was going to go on forever. this is the purpose. if the cia has a purpose, it was to collect human intelligence. and that meant 30 yearings ago, they meant trying to become close, even befriending terrorists. i'm afraid these days, that kind of human intelligence isn't toll rated. very few people in the agen

c.i.a. and is now our cbs news senior security contributor. michael what, is your view of the possibility of an attack here in the united states? >> scott i am now more worried than i have been in years about an attack here. and it's not just the isis self-radicalized individuals that i worry about. it's isis sending a fighter here to conduct an attack. it's that we still have to worry about al qaeda in pakistan. we still have to worry about al qaeda in yemen and we still have to worry scott about that group in syria called the corsign group. we still have to worry about all of that. that's what makes me so worried scott. >> reporter: they're still digging through all of his background files scott, his communications, his phone logs, his travel history, and they know that he had some associations very loose associations with other jihadis. we understand, for example his e-mail was found on the hard drive of a man who had been arrested in a terror investigation in canada. but so far sources s

this is, of course, the great failure on the c.i.a. and the intelligence in general. these days, they don't emphasize the collection of human intelligence. >> it's very difficult. on one level, i want to say you could look at the c.i.a. or u.s. intelligence committee as a string of each other. they didn't an tis pat the berlin wall coming down. you could turn around and also say this is very difficult work. these agencies get very good at hedging their bets and then covering for themselves if something goes very wrong. and i think that's where we're seeing play at right now. >> yeah, exactly. there are a long list of intelligence failures. look at the 1979 revolution in iran. no one predicted it. the collapse of the cold war. everyone thought that the soviet union was going to go on forever. this is the purpose. if the cia has a purpose, it was to collect human intelligence. and that meant 30 yearings ago, they meant trying to become clo close, even befriending terrorists. i'm afraid these days, that kind of human intelligence isn't toll rated. very few people in the

this is, of course, the great failure on the c.i.a. and the intelligence in general. these days, they don't emphasize the collection of human intelligence. >> it's very difficult. on one level, i want to say you could look at the c.i.a. or u.s. intelligence committee as a string of each other. they didn't an tis pat the berlin wall coming down. you could turn around and also say this is very difficult work. these agencies get very good at hedging their bets and then covering for themselves if something goes very wrong. and i think that's where we're seeing play at right now. >> yeah, exactly. there are a long list of intelligence failures. look at the 1979 revolution in iran. no one predicted it. the collapse of the cold war. everyone thought that the soviet union was going to go on forever. this is the purpose. if the cia has a purpose, it was to collect human intelligence. and that meant 30 years ago, they meant trying to become close, even befriending terrorists. i'm afraid these days, that kind of human intelligence isn't toll rated. very few people in the agency

larger threat it became in had terms of invading iraq. >> you've run the c.i.a., you've run the pentagon. do you think this is an enemy that america can defeat? >> i do. i do. i have tremendous confidence in our ability to defeat isis. and i'll tell you why. because, you know, we declared war against al qaeda after 9/11, and this was very similar kind of enemy. it's fanatical, dangerous, terrorist as isis was and more. i think what's going to be needed here, though, is a very long and sustained effort. this is going to be much longer in terms of our ability to ultimately disrupt and destroy them. and it's going to take time, and that's going to be the issue. question that the american people will have to face and the world will have to face in terms of the coalition we put together is whether or not we stick with it and make sure that we follow through and take this to the final victory. >> you raise a lot of questions in the book about president obama's leadership. you talk about his lacking fire, that he's a law professor rather having the passion of a leader, have a frustrating reluct

jonathan beal had worked for the c.i.a. for 11 years and was said to have been gina mcarthur's right-hand man. his expertise was global warming. he's a big deal up there. they found out and looked. he was gone most of the time. he kept getting glowing performance reviews. he kept getting raise after raise. he's great. they actually asked, why doesn't he come to work and his boss said, well, he works also for the c.i.a.. they're like sfleefl the c.i.a. and the e.p.a. both? what a combination. then they did something really extraordinary. they call the c.i.a. and asked about jonathan beal. they said jonathan who? they'd never heard him. he probably makes $150,000 a year. 100,000 federal workers make over $100,000 a year. and they were all nonessential. just imagine him by the pool. he's got to have a pool. he's by the pool, his boss calls. they're like, jonathan with you -- are you coming in today? no. i'm in istanbul on secret assignment. you remember the v.a. scandal? what was the biggest part of the v.a. scandal? even when

bombing the middle east and then throwing the c.i.a. under the bus is kinda george bush's thing. (laughter) >> it is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong. >> stephen: yes, "much" of the intelligence turned out to be wrong. but not all of it. there was a country called iraq. (laughter) it will be missed. (laughter) and it's not the first time bush has been ripped off by president barack o-rob-a. (laughter) take the president's speech last week at the annual u.n. traffic festival. (laughter) he stood up in front of that old kitchen backsplash or whatever it is -- time to remodel, guys -- and try to talk tough on i.s.i.s. >> the only language understood by the killers like this is the language of force. so the united states of america will work with a broad coalition to dismantle this network of death. no god condones this terror. no grievance justifies these actions. there can be no reasoning, no negotiation with this brand of evil. >> stephen: sir, we already have a brand of evil. it's tom's of maine. (laughter) maybe tom should leave maine once in a while to

tonight, leon panetta, former secretary of defense, director of the c.i.a. director of the office of management budget and chief of staff of president clinton talks about his new memoir thurty of fights a memoir of leadership and war and peace and about president obama. >> i think that the president and congress and whatever reason cannot confront the issues important to this country. >> rose: bob gates said the same thing in his book. >> i think that we are looking at a moment in time in the 21st century where the issue is going to be are we going to governor this country by leadership or by cs.

we did at the c.i.a. he supported the bin laden operation. and he supported the efforts that we had as secretary of defense. he was a strong leader with regards to the war on terrorism. and i think he knows that in confronting terrorism, we are going to have to take these things on. he's learned lessons from the things that i talk about. we have 10,000 troops in afghanistan. he made the decision to do that. i think that's the right decision. he's decided to arm and train the rebels. the reality is unless we are there and defining moderate rebel forces in syria, we won't have any boots on the ground. we won't have any sources on the ground to guide usas we do air attacks. if isis is there and command and control is there, we have got to have somebody, somehow be able to identify those targets so we can go after them. >> woodruff: but you're very candid in the book, secretary panetta, about points at which you think the president should have gone in another direction, should have worked more with congress.

we did at the c.i.a. he supported the bin laden operation. and he supported the efforts that we had as secretary of defense. he was a strong leader with regards to the war on terrorism. and i thinkç he knows that in confronting terrorism, we are going to have to take these things on. he's learned lessons from the things that i talk about. we have 10,000 troops inç afghanistan. he made the decision to do that. i think that's the right decision. he's decided to arm and train the rebels. the reality is unless we are there and defining moderate rebel forces in syria, we won't have any boots on the ground. we won't have any sources on the ground to guide usas we do air attacks. if isis is there and command and control is there, we have got to have somebody, somehow be able to identify those targets so we can go after them. >> woodruff: but you're very candid in the book, secretary panetta, about points at which you think the president should have gone in another direction, should have worked more with cong

nation's security. >> when the head of the c.i.a. tells you that publishing something will endanger the national security of your country, you can't tell them to jump in the lake. >> another president, president obama, awarded bradley the top civilian organization for challenging the government, in speaking truth to power >>> in the news ahead on al jazeera... >> people don't like giving attorneys to those they consider to be criminals >>>..the u.s. state accused of failing to provide justice for poor people >>> and spreading the hindu way of life. >>> top stories for you once again on al jazeera. i.s.i.l. fighters in syria seize u.s. military supplies meant for kurdish forces in kobane. one of the 28 dropped went missing >>> a deadline in yemen expires, after houthis took control and signed a peace deal with the government and other parties. protesters have been calling on houthi fighters to leave sanaa >>> a pakistani cleric whose supporters have camped out have left the city. they want nawaz sharif to resign over vote rigging. >>

where they blame the c.i.a. here they ran out in front of the cameras, called the secret service agents knuckle heads. we can argue about the punishment for the secret service agents, harsh or lenient, but what we can't argue about is there were clearly two sets of rules. the insiders got promoted, global initiative, and everyone else was fired and humiliated. including, by the way, some pressure put on the i.g.'s office to make this investigation go away the last of the election. >> as it seems. i'm so glad you're here because you were there. you know this. you write about it. but connect the dots for me. going back from this scandal to now where we're seeing these security breaches and white house making statements about the secret service, did it all start back then? it seems as though there is such a wall between the white house and the secret service that maybe wasn't there before. where did it start? >> that's a good question. i've never seen in my 12 years when i was with the secret service and three admi

the c.i.a. years later said that this was a true story, so now we get to tell it from that perspective. >> i thought my job was to tell the public the truth, the facts pretty or not. >> what do you think drove gary? >> truth. period. that's it. >> this is a true story. >> some stories are just too true to tell. ♪ theme music >> stay tuned. there's more coming up on "made in hollywood." ♪ theme music ♪ theme music snackon it. isn't this my breakfast cereal? it's also a snack. so, then it's snackreal. clever. your favorite cereals. at any time of day. all at unbeatable walmart prices, guaranteed by savings catcher. save money. live better. walmart. crest gaand the other, a crestwhitening toothpaste.. here's what they thought. i can't tell if the paste whitened. well the whitestrips worked. yeah. the paste didn't do that. crest whitestrips work below the enamel surface, to whiten 25x better than a leading whitening toothpaste. crest whitestrips. the way to whiten. this year, when you play mon

chief, the c.i.a. many in the government and the press have called them liars. last night something interesting happened in this exchange between bill o'reilly and president obama's former defense secretary, leon panetta, who was there that night. >> i have no reason not to believe them. if in fact there was a 30-minute delay, i think that it is important for the congressional committee to look into that. >> find out why. correct? >> and determine what happened. >> right now to react is one of those three security contractors who wrote the book "13 hours." big best seller. good morning to you. >> hi, how are you? thanks for having me on again. >> great to have you as well. all right. you saw the interview last night. you just heard what leon panetta said. what do you think? >> feel a little bit of vindication, but honestly, a little bit more anger 'cause obviously they've known the truth for how many years now, almost two years, or over two years. now we're coming forward with it. so i want to see more

a former colleague of yours, the c.i.a. is the number two. i heard them say that he's more concerned about the threat of terrorists coming through the northern border than the southern border. do you agree? >> i think based on past history. i guess you have to agree. i don't think we should equate canada with syria. the threat this we have seen coming has been a limited one, but that said, when we talk about terrorism, we have a greater issue across the canadian border than the left. the other difficulties is mexico. >> how concerned are the canadian people after what happened yesterday. how bad of a problem do you think you have? there have, over the years, been concerns about radicalization of canadians. >> we are, you know, a lot more aware of the problem today. there are a lot more people in canada who are localized more so the in the last 18 months. there's a possibility that they would make their way south, as did the shooter on monday, he had gone to the united states. the problem that canada faces is how do you moni

the head of the c.i.a. in front of it and several other witnesses. trying toed brainstorm possibilities. one of them was that they started earlier than we thought. the intelligence was right. it was going to take them about eight years to build a bomb. started in they 1941. we weren't really wrong. years.take them eight the fact that you didn't know when they started is a bit problematic if you want to say how good your intelligence was but this is something that made them feel a little better about themselves. they also argue that maybe they had better germans than we did. warng the second world there was a huge policy, which later thatk about rounded up all the top german atomic physicists. you have a little knowledge with operation paperclip and the space program. done with the was atomic physicists like heisenberg. the germans that were second and underlings were aatched by soviets but all of sudden, maybe the germans were ours. than nobody bought this but they felt nobody bought this but they felt better. there is also something called open sour

they call themselves the fifth reege i don't know. the fighters are trained by the c.i.a. they need the u.s. and the u.s. needs them. if isil will be defeated these are the men who will have to do it. >> can the americans win this fight from the air? is. >> never. the air strikes are never enough. the air strikes -- this area around aleppo, are controlled by the army. >> for all the u.s. groups that fight as the free syrian army. he describes how the fsa is fighting simultaneously on two fronts. north of aehelp poe, fsa to the west, isil to the east, all the way to the turkish border. >> i am standing in turkey right now, that is syria right behind me, the town, isil took it over in january, that is the flag fluttering above the town center, only about a mile and a half. >> isil is strong, it fights with equipment stole opinion the iraqi army. on the other side, the u.s. provides antimissiles fsa fighters it considers trot worthy. right now, the fsa is out manned and out gunned. >> the reality of the revolution is painful, the reality of the fsa is difficult, we have no ch