has been abu ghraib and to a certain extent, guantanamo. >> let me talk about abu ghraib, there was an op ed written by an interrogator at abu ghraib, he said, i tortured and i can't be forgiven. examples in the report released by the senate of cia interrogators who said they couldn't take it anymore, they were near tears. what does that tell you? >> first of all, this young man was scheduled to be on but couldn't be because of illness. this man is clearly carrying a burden, perhaps that all of us have put on him by putting in that situation. >> an unfair burden? >> well, abu ghraib, yes, because it was indeed criminal activity, i think it's really important to distinguish abu ghraib and what happened at the cia detention facilities. it was investigated. trials were held. >> yes, and it's very different. i'm talking about the interrogators. you put cia interrogators in that position as well. >> yes, i would be very, very disappointed if this didn't take a human toll on our cia interrogators. because after all, although that person across the table from you is a terrorist, they're also

abu ghraib was a break down in the chain of command among low level military people. everyone condemns what happened. this program was carefully designed, legally approved on four occasions by the justice department. briefed to these committees at a time when they were enthusiastic about it. at one point when we stopped this, we did stop this program when the justice department obviouslied a little bit in their opinion. i recall senator rockefeller saying don't be risk-averse. that was the as months fear we were dealing with at the time. this program was briefed to the white house. we didn't hide anything here. abu ghraib was a different situation we all find appalling. >> let me ask you about that. what they told us today when we were up there for the briefing and i want to get your response, the briefings to the republican and democratic leaders as well as the intelligence committee chairs and house and senate majority and ranking, those eight people were given cursory briefings and not told the details and the president of the united states himself, george bush was

there he began to train the soldiers running the abu ghraib prison. bagram air base in afghanistan was another prison where detainees were held, sometimes with fatal results. >> right now there are eight known cases of deaths of detainees in afghanistan. all the cases are being investigated or have been investigated to some degree or another. nonetheless, the harsh treatment of the detainees went largely unnoticed. that is, until april 2004. >> it was this picture and dozens of others that prompted army. >> it was '60 minutes", and the "new yorker magazine", that probing the image of abu ghraib. images of american soldiers abusing detainees horrified the world. here is another it 'em from -- item from 2004. it's an email about what was seen: facing a backlash president bush was forced to defend his administration against accusations of torture, not just at abu ghraib and gitmo, but cia black sites around the world. >> when we find somebody who may have information regarding a potential attack on america, you bet we're going to detain them. and you bet

there he began to train the soldiers running the abu ghraib prison. bagram air base in afghanistan was another prison where detainees were held, sometimes with fatal results. >> right now there are eight known cases of deaths of detainees in afghanistan. all the cases are being investigated or have been investigated to some degree or another. nonetheless, the harsh treatment of the detainees went largely unnoticed. that is, until april 2004. >> it was this picture and dozens of others that prompted an investigation by the u.s. army. >> it was '60 minutes", and the "new yorker magazine", that probing the image of abu ghraib. images of american soldiers abusing detainees horrified the world. here is another it 'em from -- item from 2004. it's an email about what was seen: facing a backlash president bush was forced to defend his administration against accusations of torture, not just at abu ghraib and gitmo, but cia black sites around the world. >> when we find somebody who may have information regarding a potential attack on america, you bet we're goin

was running at the air force base and later he was an interrogator at abu ghraib for the army. have -- i tell a story in my book about how he came back from iraq and afghanistan after being involved in harsh interrogations with ptsd based conducted a lot of interrogations. and it is a story that i think is very important because it ,hows and he said this to me virtually everyone he knew from his unit involved in interrogations came home with ptsd from conducting harsh interrogations. that is one of the stories i think nobody wants to hear which is torture and the american torture program, we now call it torture. they came home tortured by what they had done. the people who had to go into to conduct what the bush administration and cia and army and military all created, this infrastructure, the people who had to lay their hands and do it physically themselves. i came home deeply warped and flawed by the experience. >> where is he now? >> he is living in savannah, georgia. he only has 100% disability from the army because of his ptsd. and he is trying to recover and rebuild his l

. >> as awful as it is, that is not abu ghraib. you don't have that signature image of the guy with the hood over his head standing out like that. you don't have that bloody flag that someone can send around on the internet and this communicates that message so clearly. it's a nuance to report. you're going to have to speak english fluently to read it. will it end up in al qaeda propaganda? no doubt. will there be people criticizing the united states on this basis? no doubt. will this have the same impact as abu ghraib or the koran-burning incidents in afghanistan? i strongly doubt that. it just doesn't have that impact. >> it's going to have a lot of influence on american thinking. we credit a lot john mccain. let's hear what he had to say about this, because he's been tortured. >> i know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. i know that victims of torture will offer intentionally misleading information, if they think their captors will believe it. most of all, i know th

the book reveals how after the abu ghraib torture scandal, the apa formed a task force that enabled the continued role of psychologists in the torture program. one apa official wrote an email expressing gratitude to an intelligence official for influencing the decision, saying -- "your views were well represented by the very carefully selected task force members." >> there has been a deep division within the americans psychological associations policy on interrogations for years. unlike the american medical ,ssociation and the smaller apa the american psychological association, which is the largest association of psychologists in the world, never prohibited its members from being involved in interrogations. we're joined right now by two guests. we're going first to steven reisner, founding member of the coalition for an ethical psychology and psychological ethics advisor to physicians for human rights. his latest piece is called "cia on the couch: why there would have been no torture without the psychologists." it is great to have you back. years ago you ran for president of the apa and

was running at the air force base and later he was an interrogator at abu ghraib for the army in iraq. and i have -- i tell a story in my book about how he came back from iraq and afghanistan after being involved in harsh interrogations with ptsd based on having conducted a lot of interrogations. and it is a story that i think is very important because it shows and he said this to me, virtually everyone he knew from his unit involved in interrogations came home with ptsd from conducting harsh interrogations. that is one of the stories i think nobody wants to hear which is torture in the american torture program, we now call it torture. they came home tortured by what they had done. the people who had to go into the cells to conduct what the bush administration and cia and army and military all created, this infrastructure for enhanced interrogation, the people who had to lay their hands and do it physically themselves. i came home deeply warped and flawed by the experience. >> where is he now? >> he is living in savannah, georgia. he only has 100% disability from the army because of h

. >> eric fehr a former interrogator and writes "i can't be forgiven for abu ghraib. most americans haven't read the most, most never will. but it stands as a permanent reminder of the country we once were." echoes the comments company condition made on the senate floor. >> -- painful and unnecessary and contrary to assertions made by some of its defenders, and as the committee's report makes clear, it produced little useful intelligence to help us track down the perpetrators of 9/11 or prevent new attacks and atrocities. i know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. >> all right, so john mccain was a prisoner of war. he was tortured himself. he knows what he's talking about. he's a hawk. he's a republican. he often disagrees with president obama. >> right. >> is he wrong? >> yes, he's wrong in this respect. he's one voice, carol, and for every john mccain -- >> how can you say he's wrong? >> i can produce other folks who have served who disagree respectfully with mr. mccain. i've listened to your show this m

then abu ghraib blew up on us. the day that happened. the day it hit the press, my senior iraqi adviser, air force general under saddam retired, came into my office and said, general, you cannot understand how badly this is going to play on the arab street. we lost the moral high ground. >> you talk about instilling the moral component of this. what can the cia learn in specific practicable terms from the military's experiences and best practices on this? >> ronan, bad things happen to good organizations. the real test of the organization is how it resolved to solve the thing that just happened. the united states has had something bad happen. the primary agent appears to be the cia, although there are discussions that other actors were involved. the way to handle it is to investigate it, let the light of day reveal what happened, and then to endeavor not to repeat the mistakes of the past. so i would encourage the cia to at least address the report, at least to address the issues. i -- those men and women in the cia are our patriots. the

ghraib photos came out. we were in combat there and it certainly affected the situation there. i'm concerned now as we're seeing perhaps a little bit of the culmination of the isil forces in iraq and syria and successes in operations, what they that might do to that effort in the future. >> of course there is a question as whether the tactics themselves were the problem or whether the knowledge of them was creating the situation. peter, i want to ask you another question. one argument i've been hearing is this is essentially changing the rules of the game after the game for people who were in the cia one argument you hear is what if four years from now during another administration everyone decides that use of drones is something that should not be done or amounts to actions that should be condemned. is that a sentiment you get from other cia officials? >> i think people are concerned about this and i can only imagine that the morale at langley is pretty low right now and they're very concerned. these were p

there was abu ghraib carried out by military police. there was a surveillance system that still plagues us to this day. it was started then. it was started because people at the time felt they didn't have information. and they were panicked. i know the intelligence community panicked. what's going on in this country? what's going on abroad? what do people know? dial it up. and they dialed it up, big time. but this wasn't dialed up in a vacuum, and i think that's where the problem happens here. congress knew. the president knew. there were many briefings. >> but that's not -- >> it didn't happen -- >> but that's not -- that's not what the report says. what the report says, whether we agree with it or not, is not that everyone was fully briefed but that the briefings were full of lies. and so there is a question here, and it may be an interbranch question. it's certainly true that obama officials seem way more sympathetic to the intelligence community's version of it. but dianne feinstein is a hawk and she is widely respected by senate --

a defense department investigation later concluded that these techniques migrated to abu ghraib. i offered my legislation as an amendment to the defense authorization bill. i expected it to be noncontroversial. it was adopted unanimously here in the senate. however, the bush administration had it removed in conference. in the fall of 2004 i tried again. i offered the same amendment to the 9/11 commission intelligence reform legislation. again my amendment was adopted unanimously by the senate and again in conference negotiations the bush administration removed it. i didn't understand their opposition to my amendment because the united states had ratified the torture convention, a treaty that prohibits cruel and inhuman degrading treatment, the same thing my amendment said. a few months later i had the opportunity to get to the bottom of this. alberto gonzalez, president bush's white house counsel, was nominated to be attorney general. during his confirmation hearings in january of 2005, mr. gone disolz told me that the administration believed that they had legal authority to subj

ghraib. >> your alma mater and mine. >> and yours. anyone with an acquaintance, with a reality, but for activists and journalists their agenda's more important than the truth. this is a miss for the political will to believe. >> dan. >> well, hit the two organizations that normally get it wrong, the nobel peace prize and "time" person of the year. the nobel peace prize one went to a young woman, pakistani, civil rights leader who had been shot in the head by the taliban. malala yousafzia. and "time" gave theirs to ebola workers. now, the two of them getting it right at the same time is sort of like haley's comet appearing. i think we have to take notice. >> all right. thank you all. that's it for this week's show. thanks to my panel and especially to all of you for watching. i'm paul gigot. hope to see you right here next week. >>> well, anger, frustration, and, yep, we're etch told some name calling on capitol hill this saturday. it's a rare session of the senate focusing on the use of your tax dollars. yes, senators are hard at work

interrogations were nothing like what was depicted at abu ghraib, the united states prison in iraq where detainees were abused by american personnel. this, of course, was false. c.i.a. detaineeses at one facility described as a dungeon were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste. the u.s. bureau of prisons personnel went to that location in november 2002 and according to a contefn rainious internal c.i.a. e-mail, told c.i.a. officers they had -- quote -- "never been in a facility where individuals are so sensory deprived." end quote. again source: c.i.a. e-mail sender and recipient redacted, december 5, 2002. throughout the program, multiple c.i.a. detainees subject to interrogation exhibited psychological and behavioral issues, including hallucinations, paranoia, insomnia and attempts at self-harm and self-mutilation. multiple c.i.a. psychologists identified the lack of human contact experienced by detainees as a cause of psychiatric problems. the executive summary includes far more detail than i

that's what we did after abu ghraib and that's what we did after times. we are nation that acknowledges our mistakes and we move forward and we're not going to be inhumane. >> schieffer: do you believe the cia misled the congress over what it was doing? >> i don't know that much about it because i was not on intelligence committee in that aspect. but i do know that i had meetings with both vice president of the united states and general haden and extended meetings where there were vigorous discussions. i said these things are torture, in violation of the geneva convention and convention against foretour. later on as you know in 2005 and 2006 we enacted legislation to prohibit what they were arguing for. bob, some of these -- you cannot -- i urge everyone to just read the report. these are the communications within the cia as to what happened. can't claim that tying someone to the floor and have them freeze to death is not torture. you can't say 18 times someone is waterboarded. by the way, on waterboarding it began with spanish inquisition. it was done du

as we heard after abu ghraib and we'll hear now, we're better than this. and we should never let this happen again. let's show the rest of the world that, too. mr. president, i've spoken much longer than i normally do, but this is important to me. i yield the floor. senator mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from maine u. mr. king: before i begin my remarks, i ask that james reeves be granted floor privileges for the duration of the 113th congress. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. king: mr. president, i want to also address the report that was released this morning by the chair of the intelligence committee, and i come at this in a slightly different way than some of my colleagues because i came to this process late. i was -- i joined the intelligence committee in january of 2013. by that time, the report had been authorized, had been written, and was actually had been finalized. and so i came to it as a final product, and the principle decision was whether or not it should be released. now, before talking about the report, ther

you know the public saw photographs of what happened in abu ghraib. and they reacted to that and didn't like what they saw. they have not seen photographs of what happened in secret sites operated by the cia. they've heard tell, secret block sites, people held there, three people water boarded. this constant drum beat that has come from the cia and defenders from the former directors, from former vice president dick cheney you don't see exactly what it is, very little, but all of these people are out there telling you, it works. and that's had an impact, and i think that's what the poll showed. people really believe that it's a value. >> people -- i think people believe that it's -- they look at it as your gut tells you it's got to work on some level. think of what you, yourself would do. somebody applies enough pain to you, you're keeping something from them, that you'll cough it up eventually. people -- my guess, when you look at poll numbers, people thinking to that scenario, the clock is ticking, we know there's some kind of threat, we have the gu

. >> this is from a contract interrogator at abu ghraib. he was writing in the "new york times" yesterday. the title is "i cannot be forgiven for other grape pickup -- four abu ghraib." sleep deprivation and a procedure called rectal rehydration. this was really tough reading yesterday. we learned a lot. we learned surprisingly about the cia, about incompetence, which is not something you expect, or that i expected at all. how are we to digest this report? >> in the short run, it's a problem. the president has pointed out, foreign security, etc., in the short run. in the long run, i think senator mccain has it right. .> that is just amazing if the details were amazing. i think people knew were coming -- what was coming. >> whatever anybody's politics is, they spoke yesterday. and in the guy that knows, that is something that does not happen too often in america. >> it doesn't, and although i don't necessarily align with senator mccain, on this he feels strong. he was incredibly strong. the thing i'm curious about is what cia director brenda

and then it was guantanamo and abu ghraib. people were reacting. and there is a document, it wasn't seismic details, much of this was already out. >> people knew they were waterboarding, and not like with abba ghraib where the prisoners were being tortured and degraded. do you think there is a difference there? >> i doubt seriously that anyone is going to attack the united states that wasn't planning on attacking the united states any way. and i also -- whatever you think about the democrat-driven senate intel report, it is an appropriation function of the u.s. government and don't think you should hold functions of the u.s. government hostage to whether some terrorist is going to strike you or not. >> and if you look back, mr. rizzo and you were there and you authorized it, you were at the top lawyer at the cia and worked with the top lawyers at the department and in sanctioning the harsh terror techniques, looking back on that, what would you have done, if anything, differently? >> it is a major mistake and i bear the responsibility for that. thi

after the news and photographs emerged from the united states military detention of iraqis at abu ghraib, the intelligence committee held a hearing on the matter on may 12th, 2004. without disclosing any details of its own interrogation program cia director john mcglocklin testified that ciaer interrogationse were nothing lie what was depicted at abu ghraib. the united states prison in iraq where detainees were abused by american personnel. this of course was false. cia detainees at one facility, a described as a dungeon, were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells, with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste.ur the u.s. bureau of prisons personnel went to that location in november 2002 and according to a con tame rain just internal cia email told cia officers they had quote, never been in a facility where an individuals are so sensory-deprived, end quote. again, source, ci email, sender and recipient redacted, december 5th, 2002. throughout the program multiple cia detainees subject to interrogation exhibited psychological and wife i don't

ghraib, going on to say in one of his tweets that the u.s. government is a symbol of tyranny against humanity. so the iranian government, the supreme leader, even one of the world leaders weighing in on this situation. tomorrow, we'll hear more from the cia about what happened and their view about all of it. wolf? >> and it underscores if the former polish president, if he's so upset about what happened, and he was very close to the bush administration when he was president of poland. obviously it's a serious, serious dilemma for close u.s. allies around the world. barbara, thank you very much. we're going to have live coverage of the cia director john brennan's news conference at cia headquarters in langley, virginia. >>> a top u.n. official says there should be no statute of limitations or immunity for prosecution for bush era officials responsible for any torture that may have occurred. let's go to evan perez with new information and a new statement. i take it you've just received it from the justice department? >> that's right, wolf. the

we did that after the abuses at abu ghraib and were able to put that behind us. ande was an investigation people were responsible and the information is out there and we can tell the world, we are not far fromamerica's perfect, but we are the only nation in the world economic -- thate our mistakes can acknowledge our mistakes. the russians and chinese are supposedly critical. let's have the russians talk to us about the treatment of their detainees and the chinese, the treatment of tibet. that is what makes america proud. we make mistakes, admit mistakes, and move on. that is what i believe we are. it is really, this particular situation, as i keep repeating, is what america is all about. >> tell us, if you will, even though you spoke of this a thousand times. what is it that torture does twitter person -- to a person? >> the infliction of pain is really something that fits the description of torture. it'shat it does is that there is enough pain inflicted, who was having the on them, sooner or later, will say anything to make the pain stop that he thinks the inte

we did that after the abuses at abu ghraib and were able to put that behind us. there was an investigation and people were responsible and the information is out there and we can tell the world, we are not perfect, america's far from perfect, but we are the only nation in the world that can acknowledge our mistakes. the russians and chinese are supposedly critical. let's have the russians talk to us about the treatment of their detainees and the chinese, their treatment of tibet. never. that is what makes america proud. we make mistakes, admit mistakes, and move on. that is what i believe we are. it is really, this particular situation, as i keep repeating, is what america is all about. >> tell us, if you will, even though you spoke of this a thousand times. what is it that torture does to a person? >> the infliction of pain is really something that fits the description of torture. and what it does is that if there is enough pain inflicted, that person who was having that on them, sooner or later, will say anything to make the pain stop that he thinks the interro

ghraib that were illegal and conducted illegal activity by psychopaths. >> finally, what do you think the impact of the senate report will be, both inside the cia and also in our effort to continue the war on terror? >> this report throws the cia under the bus. it throws under the bus all of those people who actually worked so hard to protect the country. my concern is it subjects them to threats from isis, which i think we've already begun to see. it throws under the bus our liaison counterparts. i am just shocked that the united states of america would betray it's liaison counterparts who actually stepped up to the plate to help us after 9/11. this is a serious problem for us and for the intelligence committee. and we're going to pay the price for this. >> when you say pay the price, that leads me to my final question. do you think this is going to make people in the government, in the cia and the people who authorize them, it will make them more timid the next time we face the imminent threat like we faced in the wake of 9/11? >> leaders at the agency are going to wonder if the aut

but, for example, they did a report on abu ghraib, the armed services committee, back when that was current. and there were 100,000 troops in iraq at that moment. but that didn't deter us from trying to get the truth out about something that just is inconsistent with who we are. >> when there have been instances in the past of things that might ignite the anger of the so-called arab street or the muslim world or whatever, even though you can't really compare that anti-muslim movie about muhammad and you can't compare it to the pastor in florida who was talking about burning bibles. but when there are concerns about igniting the passions on the arab street, how do you make that decision behind closed doors like, yes, even if people die, we need to get this out there? >> well, as i said, it's absolutely a difficult one. and there are no guarantees. on the other hand, jake, these people don't seem to need much excuse for committing atrocities on americans or anybody else. they've been killing people and beheading people and bombing people and doing terrorist acts for the last 10 or 12 years an

soldiers. -- abu ghraib by the u.s. soldiers. if we go back to december, al qaeda launched a raid in sanaa, killing 52 civilians in a hospital. for the first time the head came out and apologised for that. i think there's a different mind-set between what a.q.a.p. do to manage propaganda and leverage what the demands are. but it is what i.s.i.s. are trying to do, establish the ground. they are different >>> in the philippines a typhoon knocked out power and send people into shelter. some have died. an area reeling from a supertif joon 13 months ago. heavy rains and flooding damaged homes and shanties. torn store signs littered the streets. scott heidler reports. >> reporter: this is edison, three weeks old, napping next to the radio. his family's connection to the outside world and news of the typhoon hagupit. edison and his mother are here, huddled in the hallways of the government building. women and children came from nearby villages, the provincial capital. >> translation: three families from my village came from the shelter.

after the news and photographs emerged from the united states military detention of iraqis at abu ghraib, the intelligence committee held a hearing on the matter on may 12th, 2004, without disclosing any details of its own interrogation program, cia director john mclaughlin described that nothing was as they depicted where detainees were abused by american personnel. this, of course, was false. cia detainees at one facility described as a dungeon were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells with large noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste. the u.s. bureau of prisons personnel went to that location in november 2002. and according to a contemporaneous cia e-mail, told cia officers had never been, quote, in a facility where individuals are so sensory deprived, end quote. again, source, cia e-mail, sender and recipient redacted, december 5th, 2002. throughout the program, multiple cia detainees subject to interrogation exhibited psychological and behavioral issues, including hallucinations, paranoia, insomnia, and attempts at self-harm and self-muti

that occurs is because of slights and insults to the religion, not to the same reactions we had to abu ghraib or haditha or what i would expect with this report. >> so if one of the principles is protection of life of cia agents, cia assets so we don't ever name the agents in order to protect their lives, what congressman rogers is saying, there are other lives at stake in this information and do we have an obligation to protect those lives in the same way we have the obligation to protect covert agents' lives? >> i think as was said earlier, the fact that we're putting people on alert is a good cautionary note. not to be out and about perhaps tomorrow. but i agree the fact that we're releasing a report that faults our own techniques is going to cause any violence against americans is the techniques themselves used on people that have pissed off the entire region against us. >> let's listen to what the president said about why this should be released. >> even before i came into office, i was very clear that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we did some things that were wrong. we did

techniques written by attorneys to justify such treatment and we know what was done at abu ghraib was terribly diminished the image of the united states throughout the world, it didn't in any one iota make us safer. in fact, many would argue it made us less safe. the report makes clear one fundamental truth -- the c.i.a. tortured people. that's the bottom line. and no euphemistic description or legal obfuscation or pettifoggery can hide that fact any longer. the intelligence committee report shows that techniques like waterboarding and sleep deprivation were used in ways far more frequent and cruel and physically harmful than previously known. and it shows a gross mismanagement of those in charge of the c.i.a., a shocking indifference to human dignity led to horrendous treatment and conditions of confinement that went far beyond even what they had been approving. turned out the senior c.i.a. leadership didn't even know that enhanced techniques were being used at one c.i.a. detention facility. in fact, in one instance one of their prisoners died as a result, left shackled on a concrete

i would say that the torture revelations, what really grabbed people were the photographs were abu ghraib. and had the video tapes of the waterboarding sessions later destroyed by the cia been brought into this, and had those been released with the report, i think that would probably have a pretty big affect. but the drone campaign has had a very continuous affect, and i think that it's not impossible that five or ten years from now, maybe sooner, we will see a congressional investigation that would ask the same question that has come up in the torture debate, which is over the long run, did this program create as many problems as it solved? and you can see, and the way the president obama has scaled bang on his early very heavy use of the drone program that he has got some of the concerns as well, as well as trying to move it out of the cia and towards the defense department. >> do you get a sense from either the white house or the pentagon or the cia that they see some level of hypocrisy here? >> certainly you see a sense within the white house that they see some level of questioning ab

ghraib photographs that sparked a global furor in 2004. so are we done with torture? are we proud of ourselves for being willing to admit what we've done and be open about it? that's not even settled. stay tuned. friday's the next chapter in that. and, and this is a difficult one. are we done with this in terms of people who are currently serving in the u.s. government? the cia cooked up its torture program under president george w. bush. today, though, in what may be his final speech as a united states senator, colorado democrat mark udall took to the floor of the senate and said one of the ways this whole thing is not over is that some of the people who knew about it, who were part of it, who made it happen, who did it themselves are still serving in government right now. he made the case today that the obama administration, president obama specifically, should purge those people out of government office right now. >> those who criticized the committee's study for overly focusing on the past should understand that its findings directly r

developing news tonight in the arrest of the murder of an american teachner abu ghraib. the raid that caught the alleged while every business is unique, everyone is looking for ways to cut expenses. and that's where pg&e's online business energy checkup tool can really help. you can use it to track your actual energy use. find rebates that make equipment upgrades more affordable. even develop a customized energy plan for your company. think of it as a way to take more control over your operating costs. and yet another energy saving opportunity from pg&e. find new ways to save energy and money with pg&e's business energy check-up. we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. >>> developing now vicious murder of american teacher in abu dahbi. chilling arrest of the chilling video and how the arrest went down. >> brand new video of a major swat raid in abu da

if you remember the abu ghraib incident that occurred, i talked to the young ncos and officers in the villages and they said that put them at great risk when it came out -- of course, that wasn't part of this program, but that americans were torturing. by us saying that these measures are okay, it's saying we condone them. my son is a marine. are we saying if he was taken as a prisoner these methods are okay when the international community and the conventions we signed say no? i also don't understand why we paid $81 million as i understand it for some contractor to come up with these things. i don't know if it's a marquis desaad or llc. but this is the most ridiculous things we have done in years. >> what about releasing the report, that's up for debate in terms of what this information and the presence of this report is doing to -- to our people in harm's way right now. >> well, first of all, by saying that releasing the report puts people in harm's way sort of val -- validates it. i think the important part about releasing it is the -- is the rift that has occurred between our inte

ghraib incident was made public or incidents were made public, asked me to look into it. ,o get a chronology essentially, to tell him how we got to that point. i began my investigation. i learned that there was as early as april, may 2002, efforts to use enhanced interrogation techniques come also to build a legal regime under which they could be conducted, and that those efforts were as much aimed at al qaeda and contacts between baghdad and no qaeda and corroboration thereof, as they were trying to ferret out whether or not there was another attack coming like 9/11. that was stunning to me to find out that was part -- i would say probably 50% of the impetus that i discovered in both the classified and unclassified material i looked into. we spoke to richard clarke, the nation's former top counterterrorism official. clarke served as national coordinator for security and counterterrorism during bush's first year in office. he resigned in 2003 following the iraq invasion. clarke said that after 9/11, right after, in the days after president george bush had wanted , him to

ghraib. people who say, are we doing this the right way or should we prosecute someone, we've already done that. to me the question hanging over this report are did we do it right? are those the only people who bush officials said went rogue and they were used the very stressed tactics part of the official policy. are those the only nine people that -- >> in my view, no. there's a military axiom that says, if you're the boss, you're responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in your organization. you're not only required not to do anything -- you're required to give your opinion on things. when the order is given, have you to carry it out unless the order is immoral or illegal than you have an obligation to refuse to do it. and that's up and down the chain of command. other people in that chain of command who were not prosecuted, who were responsible for what took place, they were in the chain of command, and one could safely and i think persuasively argue that that list of pe

ghraib that were illegal and conducted illegal activity by psychopaths. >> finally, what do you think the impact of the senate report will be? both inside the cia and also in our effort to continue the war on terror? >> this report throws the cia under the bus. it throws under the bus all of those people who actually worked so hard to protect the country. and actually, my concern is it subjects them to threats from isis, which i think we have already begun to see. it throws under the bus our liaisoncounterparts. i'm just shocked that the united states of america would betray its liaison counterparts who stepped up to the plate to help those after 9/11. this is a serious problem for us and for the intelligence community. and we're going to pay the price for this. >> when you say pay the price, that leads me to my final question. do you think this is going to make people in the government and the cia and the people who authorize it, will make them more timid the next time we face the kind of imminent threat we faced in the wake of 9/11? >> leaders at the agency are going to wonder wheth