ms. kiefer: randy, yes? randy: the chamber has been accused of supporting the hated senate amnesty bill which it wasn't. we don't have to belabor it but amnesty in our view is forgiveness. if you look it up in a law dictionary. it's forgiveness of a wrong and no one is offered forgiveness. there is a stiff fine for that wrong of coming in. it's not forgiving the wrong. it's what is the appropriate penalty? many think people think deportation is appropriate. i would argue that the penalty does not fit the crime. it's not realistic because we will not deport them so let's come up with a fix instead of doing nothing. it seems a substantial civil fine and going through other steps before you get a series of probationary steps before you get a status to work and then a green card is appropriate. people will disagree with that. but i don't think most people call that amnesty. at least from the chamber positive point, it's not amnesty. with regard to border security, it is more complicated than assets at the border

ms. kiefer: randy, yes? randy: the chamber has been accused of supporting the hated senate amnesty bill which it wasn't. we don't have to belabor it but amnesty in our view is forgiveness. if you look it up in a law dictionary. it's forgiveness of a wrong and no one is offered forgiveness. there is a stiff fine for that wrong of coming in. it's not for giving the wrong. it's what is the appropriate . penalty? many think people think deportation is appropriate. i would argue that's a penalty -- i would argue that the . penalty does not fit the crime. it's not realistic because we will not deport them so let's come up with a fix instead of doing nothing. it seems a substantial civil fine and going through other steps before you get a series of probationary steps before you get a status to work and then a green card is appropriate. people will disagree with that. but i don't think most people call that amnesty. at least from the chamber positive point, it's not amnesty. with regard to border security, it is mor

ms. kiefer: randy, yes? randy: the chamber has been accused of supporting the hated senate amnesty bill which it wasn't. we don't have to belabor it but amnesty in our view is forgiveness. if you look it up in a law dictionary, it's forgiveness of a wrong and no one is offered forgiveness. there is a stiff fine for that wrong of coming in. the question is, it's not forgiving the wrong. it's what is the appropriate penalty? many think people think deportation is appropriate. i would argue that the penalty does not fit the crime. more importantly, it's not realistic because we will not deport them so let's come up with a fix instead of doing nothing. it seems a substantial civil fine and going through other steps before you get a series of probationary steps before you get a status to work and then a green card is appropriate. people will disagree with that. but i don't think most people call that amnesty. at least from the chamber viewpoint, it's not amnesty. with regard to border security, it is more complic

ms. kiefer: i don't remember how i asked, but he said this congress. that he is not going to deal with it. if he says no, that's very much it. randy: we are little bit hopeful. we are working on a high scale bill in the house. if the fifth circuit ruled in favor of the texas governor that that might have an opening for this year -- next session, not this year. looking beyond that, i think the days of talking about poisoning the well, it's not just that the president went forward with these executive orders but the aca framing that with the affordable care act combined not just with partisanship, but that there were mandates under the aca which the president

ms. kiefer: if it goes against the president, how that affect the debate? ms. hincapie: i think the debate will continue because this is just one piece of the broader immigration debate. part of what we will continue hearing is the sort of wall supporters among the gop candidates, and then also other things that can be done administratively. there is the future of what happens with the 11 million undocumented immigrants. what kind of immigration will receive during the next administration? ms. kiefer: ok. randy, way down there. [laughter] on the far left, i like that. jeb bush, as i mentioned earlier, last week in the debates laid out pretty extensively his steps and immigration reform. and one of the things he said he supported was required use of the e-verify electronic system in order to determine whether they are hiring undocumented workers or not in their companies. and it has been voluntary, as far as i know, so far. so my question for you is, how would american businesses feel about being required to use the e-verify system? and also, how reasonable is i

in afghanistan in 2001 -- ms. kiefer: or afghanistan even now. mr. vickers: no, afghanistan 2001, you can get very dramatic effects in a short period of time. the reason is you have a ground force, and it doesn't have to be the world's greatest growth was, can exploit the effects of air power. if you don't, then it becomes very traditional and it takes a lot of -- a traditional -- atr itional and it takes a lot of time. and the use of operations for the overuse of special problemns for every this country faces, or did argue that this white house uses them like the ultimate swiss army knife of the pentagon to throw them at problems. do you have the numbers you need to meet the mission set you face? , know you are a few years out but i know it is something you still watch. and you have been watching closely because you have needed them to other go out and protect your intelligence forces or to engage. i, sincers: eric and 9/11, we have doubled the size -- we have quadrupled the use of these forces since 9/11. that is dramatic growth but they're also in