e speciareport ititled, "t libya gamble." a momen we wille joined scott sne, one the report's co-ahors, bufirst, video package produced by the "new york times." >> hillary clinton's role in the military intervention that ousted muammar gaddafi in libya is getting new scrutiny as she runs for president. the u.s. relationship with libya has long been complicated. colonel gaddafi who ruled from hunting 59 to 2011 was an eccentric dictator link to terrorism. when he gave up his nuclear program a decade ago and provided information about al qaeda, he became an ally of sorts. 2009 when mrs. clinton was secretary of state, she welcomed one of colonel gaddafi's sense to washington. >> deeply value the relationship between the united states and libya. >> two years later when colonel gaddafi threatened to crush the arab spring in libya, she helped persuade president obama to join other countries and bombing his forces to prevent a feared massacre. >> this operation is already saved many lives, but the danger is far from over. >> the mi

or somewhere out of libya. what happens next is or what is supposed to happen next is that both of the other government $will hand to this international-- governments will hand over power peacefully, but that does not look like an option at the moment and as a result what we will end up with is instead of having two competing governments, we will have three competing governments in libya because the government or the self-proclaimed islamist government in tripoli is refusing to hand over power and is going as far as actually threatening war and resistance against this u.n.-backed government, and in eastern libya the other caretaker government prime minister has refused to hand over power because he says this u.n.-backed government was not endorsed by the parliament in the city of tobruk in eastern libya and he would not hand over until it is given that endorsement from the recognised parliament >>> the u.s. is sending for troops and more tanks to eastern europe. the senior u.s. demander in europe described it a

the special report is titled, "the libya gamble." in a moment, we will be joined by scott shane, one of the report's co-authors, but first, a video package produced by the "new york times." >> hillary clinton's role in the military intervention that ousted muammar gaddafi in libya is getting new scrutiny as she runs for president. the u.s. relationship with libya has long been complicated. colonel gaddafi who ruled from hunting 59 to 2011 was an eccentric dictator link to terrorism. when he gave up his nuclear program a decade ago and provided information about al qaeda, he became an ally of sorts. 2009 when mrs. clinton was secretary of state, she welcomed one of colonel gaddafi's sense to washington. >> deeply value the relationship between the united states and libya. >> two years later when colonel gaddafi threatened to crush the arab spring in libya, she helped persuade president obama to join other countries and bombing his forces to prevent a feared massacre. >> this operation is already saved many lives, but the danger is far

what happens in libya? you know, the freedom the freedom fighters in libya. sure, there are some freedom fighters in egypt. there were some freedom fighters in libya. but by and large, what happened in libya was we engaged radical jihadists to overthrow gadhafi. and the end result is what happened on 9/11 and 2012 in benghazi is individuals and groups that maybe not the exact individuals or the groups and that that were trained and equipped by nato to overthrow gadhafi used the resources and the training to kill our ambassador and kill three other americans. because their objective was not to establish democracy in libya. their objective was to take over the government, establish the caliphate, establish sharia law, and as soon as they got rid of gadhafi, they were going to get rid of the u.s. and guess what? they succeeded. the u.s. left an we're now in a position where we are bombing in libya because they have established a caliphate, there's 5,000 jihadists estimated to be in libya who are now exporting fighter, equipment and ideology into northern africa.

benghazi, libya. he talked about experiences with rolled dictators and talked about the middle east, europe and, the rest of the world. he spoke at the leadership program of the rockies in colorado springs. this is one hour. speakers,my favorite let me modify that -- my favorite speaker is your, congressman pete hoekstra. my closest friend when he served at the u.s. house of representatives together. most of these people get elected to congress -- they vote and make nice speeches. when the floor work is finished, they had for the golf course or bars in town. i was not really into that. i made friends with those that took the job seriously. that's how pete and i became friends. there is a great story. one time we let everybody leave town and there were 5-6 that stayed with pete. we went to the department of education office building and walked through the front door and started meeting people and ask what they do for a living. we started on the first floor, worked our way up. massive empire of a buildi

libya collapsed. two rival government and haostless -- c filled the gap. >> for a year it went by with the libyans able to set up a democratically elected parliament to start a constitution drafting process and a national dialogue process. a borderset up monitoring mission to strengthen control of libya's land borders. british government set up specific programs of assistance, but we were taking our turn from the libyans who did not want a military occupation force. wanted to be masters in their own house. reporter: the arrival of islamic state has added a new dimension to libya's problems. it was in qaddafi's hometown that i.s. took hold. here last year we watched as the militants motored fighters -- so drivingo them out and expanding the control running rampantn. could not be contained. in tunisia, it was i.s. attackers trained in libya who killed. westbritain and the esest libya mattered again. this is the aftermath of a u.s. airstrike. special forces from america, france and britain are preparing

they were to travel to syria, iraq, afghanistan, yemen and libya. the same mentioned a report suggests some counterterrorism measures that require a more comprehensive approach, which in comparison not only ongoing essential security based counterterrorism, but also systematic preventive measures which directly address the drivers of violent extremism that have given rise to the emergence of these new groups. i agree with the conclusions of the report. it makes a lot of sense, because in my humble opinion, we need to pay enough attention to what individuals are attracted to violate extremist groups. i'm also convinced that the creation of open, inclusive, and pluralist societies based on the full respect of human rights, and with economic opportunities for all represent the most tangible and most meaningful alternative to violent extremism, and the most promising strategy for rendering it an attractive. we will not be successful unless we can harness the idealism, creativity and energy of young people and others who feel disenfranchised. young peopl

the way to move forward in libya we can do air strikes or special forces raids in libya. that's all fine and good. what we need to do is get a government running in lib yaf so wlibya sowe have a parch to wor. that is easier said than do in libya. >> that could be the same said in afghanistan, syria and iraq. >> absolutely. >> back to iraq for a second. we were talking about the u.s. special ops forces, the kurds have really shown themselves to be something to be reckoned with. the iraqi military on the other hand has a bad rap, being corrupt and not particularly effective. is that true or he they've just got are -- they've just gotten a bad reputation? >> i think theach jus they've ja bad rep. the iraqi army has retain ramadi from the islamic state, they have yet to demonstrate that they can take a major city, that's a task that's still in front of them but i think right now you have to consider the iraqi army to be the most reliable fighting partner based on the fact they have shown they can take back a city and that's what we need to do. >> do the kurds have the right r

they asked nato to protect the people of libya. i think it is highly unlikely that nato would desire or decide to embark in a campaign in libya without another u.n. resolution. jane: what can they do? we have seen a broader policing role at these crossing points, but what can they do without that resolution, and what is the likelihood of them getting extra authorization? very low likelihood of additional authorization. russia and china would probably block such a resolution. nato can do with they are doing in the aegean sea. to use maritime capabilities of the alliance along the small water-space along libya and malta, the boot of italy, , we could essentially put a maritime blockade is in place to capture the migrants and return them to libya. it would be full of holes. it would be difficult to completely close off. it is the best option that nato has in the absence of the u.n. resolution to go in on the ground, would be to address it at sea. jane: you cannot tackle the migrant crisis without addressing the cause. it is instabilit

or somewhere out of libya. what happens next is or what is supposed to happen next is that both of the other governments will hand to this internationally recognised government, hand over power peacefully, but that does not look like an option at the moment, and as a result what we will end up with is instead of having two competing governments, we will have three competing governments in libya. why? because the government or the self-proclaimed islamist government in tripoli is refusing to hand over power and is going as far as actually threatening war and resistance against this u.n. backed government, and in eastern libya the other caretaker government has, prime minister has refused to hand over power because he said that this u.n. backed government was not endorsed by the parliament in the city of tobruk in eastern libya and as a result he would not hand over until it gets that endorsement from the internationally recognised parliament >>> the u.s. says it's sending more troops and march tanks to eastern e

in libya and many people here think i.s.i.l. is behind what happened. >> translation: they are dirt. we are not afraid of them. all the people here are in solidarity with the government. for us every is in solidarity with the government we hate them. they don't represent us. they don't represent tunisia >> translation: of course i'm afraid. we're all afraid because it is the first time that something like this has happened. >> reporter: one possible reason for this attack is revenge for a recent u.s. air strike on an i.s.i.l. camp sabratha in western libya. most of those kills tunisians. it is thought the strike happened with the help of tunisian intelligence. last week a dozen fighters crossed attacking security forces. this time it was a much larger group. >> translation: this is an unprecedented attack planned and organized and whose goal was to take control of the area to announce a new emi remarks ate. >> reporter: the government recently built a barrier to try to stop arms trafficking and attackers crossing in. this fighti

and, of course, our friend from libya talked about some groups, can see only in libya we have nearly 300 malicious, military groups. and when you go it will be to this arc of sahel and soap opera, all these -- and so harrop. all these terrorist groups dealing with all the terrorists and link it today to all these terrorist groups. and the transnational organized crime. for this reason i think that the moroccan approach take, on this time, on one hand, and as the major goal of terrorism, and the terrorist groups, we have certainly daesh as you say, but we still have -- and we can observe at this time that it is acting in both of african countries in mali, in ivory coast and others. we still have today very bad and important activity of, as my friend would say, boko haram. we talk less maybe about boko haram, but it's one of very bad groups. and al-shabaab. the second point when we focus on the terrorist groups in the moroccan approach, we never put the transnational organized crime. we have in this region very important activity. and what we learn that today, and i will be, i'm realis

would you consider libya at this point a failed state? >> yes, sir. >> two different messages there. >> i mean, hillary clinton put the best possible, positive spin on this that she could. she was not glowing about how great they're doing but she said they're moving forward. then you hear them say they're not a failed state. across the middle east, it seemed wonderful if we could swoop in and stave off a humanitarian disaster. what we get instead of the dictator generally is chaos. >> in the meantime, iran firing these missiles with messages in hebrew that israel should be wiped off the map after receiving temperature of million of dollars. >> more evidence that the deal isn't working. that the mullahs are thumbing their nose at us. and they're not doing it secretly. this missile test was announced on state-run media. in iran. so it is being done openly. and the sanctions, i think it is more evidence that it is not working. they have been engaged in a six-month civil war prior to that happening. as thing stand today, however, the penn has

or somewhere out of libya. what happens next is or what is supposed to happen next is that both of th other governments will have to hand over power peacefully, but that does not look like an option at the moment and as a result what we will end up with is instead of having two competing governments, we will have three competing governments in libya. why? because the government of the self-proclaimed islamist claim in tripoli is refusing to hand over power and is going as far as actually threatening war and resistance against this u.n.-backed government and in eastern libya the other tear taker government prime minister has refused to hand over power because he says this u.n.-backed government was not endorsed by the parliament in the city of eastern libya and as a result he would not hand over until it gets that endorsement from the internationally recognised parliament >>> in colombia the government and the second biggest rebel group have announced the beginning of formal peace talks. the eln or national libe

factions the head of libya's u.n. backed government of national aaccord arrived by sea to take up his position. >> translation: we were eager that there was no bloodshed in the process. we are committed to the terms of the political agreement that the lib i can't answer agreed on and-- libyans agreed on. >> reporter: he wasn't welcomed by everyone. gunfire was heard shortly after unity government members arrived. >> translation: the government and national salvation calls on those illegitimate infiltrators to hand over themselves and to be in safe hands or to go back to where they came from. the salvation government is working with the entities, all state institutions and ngos as well as community leaders to take the necessary steps to save the country from the threat of chaos and foreign intervention. >> reporter: he had previously been based in neighboring tunisia. whether he will be able to establish any kind of authority within libya remains unclear. >> the problem is that the government in tripoli, the government

of libya. what happens next is or what is supposed to happen next is that both of the other governments will hand over power to this government peacefully, but that does not look like an option at the moment. as a result, what we will end up with is instead of having two competing government $, we will have three competing government $in libya. because the government or the self-proclaimed islamist government in tripoli is refusing to hand over power and is going as far as threatening war and resistance against this u.n.-backed government. in eastern libya the other caretaker government prime minister has refused to hand over power because he says this u.n.-backed government was not endorsed by the parliament in the city of tobruk and he will not hand over until he gets that endorsement from the internationally recognised parliament >>> in colombia the government and the second biggest rebel group have announced the beginning of peace talks. the eln will follow on from the farc and take part in

special operations forces on the groun ground in libya. were they assessing the possible allied forces they could find on the ground? does it require for any kind of sustained air campaign against isis to have a viable government in place in tripoli before the u.s. and the coalition would launch -- >> let me start with the last part first. because that's the key which is trying to get a government in tripoli that can win the support of all of the many factions in libya. so that libya isn't the kind of disordered state that provides fertile ground for isil to spread. now, one thing that the libyans -- they disagree among themselves a lot. the one thing that is very true is that they don't like foreigners being there. they don't like foreigners who come into their territory. that's what isil is. they don't like foreigners who come in and take their oil. foreigners who come in and try to dominate their people. so we fully expect that when -- which we hope is soon -- a government is formed in libya, it will welcome not just the united states b

membership bid. >>> 12 military personnel were confirmed killed in libya monday. the raid was a terrorist attack aimed at establishing an isil emrelate in the town of ben gardene. >>> a family of the passengers and crew of the malaysian airline flight held a vigil to mark the anniversary. families of the many missing chinese passengers demanded answers. they protested outside a buddhist temple. >> here's a reminder of what we know. the bowing 777 took off from kuala lampur bound for beijing in the early hours of march eight, 2014. about an hour later, communications from the crew ceased and the aircraft disappeared from civilian radar. military radar tracked it for another hour as it turned from its scheduled route than vanished from the radar. transmissions from one of the aircraft's monitoring systems indicate it then flew possibly for hours toward the southern indian ocean following this arc off of western australia, which has become the focus of the search effort. we have more on the investigations and the anniversary. >> the second anniversary of the disappea

the assault was launched by armed men from across the border in libya. it happened in the town of ben garden. we are on the line now with our reporter in tunisia. what do we know about the attack? >> i was there in the center of the town which has basically become a ghost town with people staying indoors. that's what they've been advised to do. what we understand is that this was a very well coordinated planned attack on army barracks just outside the center of the town. there were clashes, some heavy gunfire was heard throughout the town that went on for a few hours, and when we were there, the situation was extremely calm, the police had set up checkpoints in and around the town asking people to basically just stay indoors if they can. i this in what the police and security forces and army are trying to do, they are trying to find out if they have gathered all the armed fighters. if they managed to find all of them. there were reports of some locals that there were up to dozens of fighters going into the neighborhood and basically carrying out these at

that came across in libya, too. in libya, he came and convinced that u.s. military force was not the solution to the problems in the middle east. the iraq war and the bush legacy, people turned against it and he was convinced that was not the approach. but in the middle east when something goes wrong people look to the united states, what are you going to do? libya was a great example of that. it went against all of his instincts. that a u.s. intervention is not the solution. then you're stuck and how long -- he let himself be persuaded to do libya. in the europeans and the arabs were pushing charlie: he would not have done it unless the secretary of state and the u.s. ambassador had bought in on it? >> i don't think he would've done it over their objections but on that and chemical weapons in syria and everything in the middle east, it comes to the president and it's true, people are dying and there is an awful situation. recalls thet also pressure to act is there but the support for that action dissipates very quickly when costs start to rise and things s

let me ask you about libya. do we have the capability, general rodriguez, rodriguez, to prosecute a war in libya against isis while at the same time going after them in other parts of the world including iraq and syria? >> i think the answer to that is yes. is the question of how much risk we as a nation can take and how much you commit versus maintain. >> as i understand it, you all have a recommendation to the white house. obviously you can't share that because that's internal conversation but in your status of forces, you have capability that it's the president's decision to go after isis and other elements in libya, we have the ability to thwart those elements? >> yes sir, i do. >> thank you. would any of you like to comment on the efforts around here to cut back on your headquarter staff? >> we have worked hard throughout the headquarters to figure out where the best place to combat and that continues to move forward. we will support the efforts going forward. >> we clearly want to leverage all of the capab

also ahead, tunisia closes its border with libya after an attack. two years on and still no real answers. relatives of those mh370 mark a somber anniversary. >> reporter: i'm in an illegal mine where the mine owner is still using children to extract coal >>> turkey has made a bold proposal to tackle the refugee crisis in europe. ankara is offering to take back refugees stranded in greece in return for more money and the fast-tracking of its post to be a member of the e.u. >> reporter: finally at the end of a long day and night the break through they had hoped for. the european union has reached an agreement with turkey that they believe marks the beginning of the end of europe's refugee crisis. >> this is a real game changer. >> you the days of irregular migration to europe are over. >> our objective is to discourage illegal immigration to prevent human smugglers, to help people who want to come to europe through encouraging legal migration. the agreement means that in future turkey will take back all those making the perfectly allows and illegal jo

camp in western libya. most of those killed were tunisians. it is thought the strike happened with the help of tunisian intelligence. last week about a dozen arm fighters crossed the border attacking security forces. this time it was a much larger group. >> translation: this is an unprecedented attack plan episode and organized and whose goal was probably to take control of this area to announce a new emirate. >> reporter: they reasonable build a border to stop -- for border protection. the threat isn't just coming from libya. it is already within tunisia itself >>> u.s. military commanders say a drone strike in somalia has killed more than 150 al-shabab fighters. al-shabab has confirmed that attack but says the u.s. is exaggerating the number. al-shabab which has links to al-qaeda is fighting to overthrow the sew malian government. al-shabab fighters are claimed for numerous bomb and gun attacks in east africa, including the nairobi shopping mall attack. the white house says it was to prevent fighting. >> they posed an imminent threat to u.s.

libya, thank you for your service. what percentage of libya is under the control of extremist groups like isil? >> isil and dash control the area in and around -- i couldn't give you exact percentage. >> would you consider libya at this point a failed state? >> yes, sir. >> thank you very much for your service. >> thank you and thanks to the witnesses. i echo the comments about the appreciation for the service. i want to ask a couple of questio questions. i know u.s. military is a preferred training partner. i kind of like to have you talk about the success of those training efforts over the course of your three years and what other nations do significant training of african military? i view this as one of the most cost effective investments that we make. i would like to hear your thoughts on it. >> we are by far the largest contributed to training african peace keepers in africa. we have a tremendous amount of successes just to give you a one benchmark now the u.n. missions in africa are 47% provided by african soldie

he was not familiar with libya. he's certainly not an expert, and had a difficult time can't figure out who was who. and couldn'ttime, figure out who was who. he brokered a meeting with who is now the head of armed forces in libya, but was a dual u.s. citizen -- lived in the u.s., worked with the cia for many years. time, heid was over changed his proposal, and the reason why was because in his offering of a group of european, white mercenaries -- non-muslim mercenaries -- he did not get a lot of takers. was that ifadvised you want to sell this program, what you need to do is give them something that was politically palatable. when you need to do is offer a solution to the problems they currently have that they cannot seem to control -- which was migration -- the problem of migrants coming up through well-established, you know, lanes, if you will, routes to try to get into europe. few provide them with a border solution, that is something that not only will they accept, but thecould probably get by european union, b

camp in western libya. most of those killed were tunisians. it is thought the strike happened with the help of tunisian intelligence last week around a dozen crossed the border attacking security forces. this time it was a much larger group. >> reporter: this is an unprecedented attack. >> reporter: the government built a barrier along it's border with libya to try to stop arms trafficking and fighters from coming in. this fighting also shows a police isn't just coming from libya. it is already within tunisia itself >>> a faction of the packs stan ee taliban has claimed responsibility for a suicide attack in the court building in the north west. at least 17 people were killed. the armed group says it is revenge for the execution of one of its fighters last week. it is the second anniversary of the biggest ever aviation mystery, the disappearance of 239 passengers and crew board malaysian airline flight of mh370. mps in the parliament stood in silence at this rally. families of the missing demanded answers as they protested outside a buddhist t

i'm joined by an expert on libya, joining me live, good to have you with us. members of the presidential council may be able to make it. >> that is the question, because arriving into tripoli or not, although it's an important step, but it's not the issue at hand. and the next 48-72 hours will be key in determining whether the threats of violence and the threat of use of force by some of the armed groups in the capital, including the government, the salvation government that's based in tripoli, and also, the remnants of the former general national congress. if tonight goes peacefully, and after tomorrow, if it goes peacefully, there's a chance that the presidential council will be able to find a foothold in the capital, tripoli, and they will be able to start exercising some form of authority in the capital. however, the fact that they arrived by boat and not by air, it's an indication of how fragile and difficult the situation is in tripoli. >> fragile and difficult, and it begs the question when you talk there about exercising authority in the capital. how m

libya. in addition, the united states has opted also not to intervene in a number of other contracts, most notably rwanda appeared as we all know over the past couple years the obama administration has resisted intense pressure both domestically and internationally to intervene in seville were serious. that seems likely in the midst of ongoing stability -- and stability, the united states is bound to intervene in foreign conflicts. the likelihood is problematic primarily because the international system is founded on the comp that of sovereignty. msn misstates refrain from interfering in each other's domestic affairs. over the past century, however, international law standards have emerged to delineate circumstances in which these men are being, even military in the affairs of other sovereign states. particularly over the past decade the u.n. institutionalization of the concept of the responsibility to protect has established that a sovereign states fail to protect their citizens from genoci

libya now is in total chaos. the u.n. representative said this, isis had quote taken advantage of the political and security vacuum and is expanding to the west, east, and south, while libya's financial resources are dwindling. the networks are booming. if the intervention of libya was one of your great foreign policy successes. >> let's talk about it in context, and let's remember what was going on at the time. it was during the so called arab spring, people in libya who had been living under the dictatorship of gadhafi for 42 years were rising up. and he, as we all can remember, was a ruthless dictator with american blood on his hands. ronald reagan tried to take him out because of the danger he posed 37 and once it became clear to him that the people of libya were trying to get more freedom and hopefully a better future, he basically said he was going to hunt them down like cockroaches. the europeans who had a lot more of a connection with libya, going back mr. decades were absolutely intent upon working with us with n

he was not familiar with libya. he's certainly not an expert, and had a difficult time can't figure out who was who. and couldn'ttime, figure out who was who. he brokered a meeting with who is now the head of armeded forcs in libya, but was a dual u.s. citizen -- lived in the u.s., worked with the cia for many years. time, heid was over changeged his proposal, and the reason why was because in his offering of a group of european, white mercenaries -- non-muslim mercenaries -- he did not get a lot of takers. was that ifadvised you want to sell this program, what you need to do is give them something thatat was politically palatable. when you need to do is offer a solution to the problems they currently have that they cannot seem to control -- which was migration -- the problem of migrants coming up through well-established, you know, lanes, if you will, routes to try to get into europe. few provide them with a border solution, that is something that not only will they accept, but thecould probably get by european uni

she said this is my word and first democratic debate, libya is success story. it's not. >> it is widely kind of accepted in the foreign policy community that mrs. clinton when she was secretary of state was really sort of the bullish one saying, little bug in the president's ear was saying do this, the right thing to do. we candepose this evil dictator. the problem much like iraq there was no plan to win the aftermath. i can't even say win the peace. there was never any peace. there was some brief sort of political shock in the country in absence of having muammar qaddafi at the helm. it is rife for infiltration by terrorist organizations since 2011 since the absence of political leadership and stability. sandra: can you explain what is going on with the oil situation there? this report we're talking about says isis has expanded significantly. they don't currently, the report says, direct revenue from exploitation of oil in libya but the attacks against oil installations seriously compromises the country's economic stability. what is the latest. >> absolutely.

what happens in libya? the freedom fighters in libya, sure there are some freedom fighters that were in egypt, there were some freedom fighters in libya. but by and large what happens in libya, what we did is engage with radical jihaddists to overthrow gaddafi. what end result is happened on 9/11, in 2012 in benghazi is individuals and groups that maybe not the exact individuals but the groups that were trained and equipped by nato to overthrow gaddafi used the resources and the training to kill our ambassador and kill three other americans. because their objective was not to establish democracy in libya. their objective was to take over the government, establish the caliphate, establish sharia law and as soon as they got rid of gaddafi they were going to get rid of the u.s. guess what? they succeeded. the u.s. left and we're now in a position where we are bombing in libya because they have established a caliphate, there's 5,000 jihaddists estimated to be in libya who are now exporting fighters, equipment,

libya now is in total chaos. the u.n. representative said this, isis had quote taken advantage of the political and security vacuum and is expanding to the west, east, and south, while libya's financial resources are dwindling. the networks are booming. if the intervention of libya was one of your great foreign policy successes. >> let's talk about it in context, and let's remember what was going on at the time. it was during the so called arab spring, people in libya who had been living under the dictatorship of gadhafi for 42 years were rising up. and he, as we all can remember, was a ruthless dictator with american blood on his hands. ronald reagan tried to take him out because of the danger he posed 37 and once it became clear to him that the people of libya were trying to get more freedom and hopefully a better future, he basically said he was going to hunt them down like cockroaches. the europeans who had a lot more of a connection with libya, going back mr. decades were absolutely intent upon working with us with n

intervention of libya and nonintervention in syria started in earnest after 2012. the precipitating events were at the same time at the start of the civil war, 2011. the start of the uprising. here's where i take issue gently, i i hope with michael's intention of the book that as of late 2012, the record on the libyan intervention was mixed, i disagree, michael and his remarks today seems to agree, the record is not mixed, it's not. the libyan intervention was a disaster. don't don't take my word for it, christopher from the corporation was the support of the intervention, i didn't do this on purpose i swear, and my email box this morning was an e-mail with the headline from christopher, use force to forge peace in libya, the u.s. and its allies need to step in to help restore. five years after the fact. so, it's a mess. now in fairness, the fact that libya is in utter disaster before 2016 does not necessarily mean that the intervention five years ago was neither permissible nor just come in many respects it is more legal under international law because it did at l

of course libya is in a state that is very concerning right now. and everyone has to take their responsibilities for that. what i would say is after the conflict the british government did support the training of libyan troops. we did bring the libyan prime minister to the g8 in northern ireland. we went to the united nations to help that government. but so far we haven't been able to bring that government of national accord that can bring some semblance of stability and peace to that country. but is it in our interest to help that government do exactly that? yes it is. we should work with others in order to try to deliver that. >> byron davis. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. speaker. my constituency which is won first time ever by the conservatives could be transformed along with the rest of the region by the lagoon, having signed 1.2 billion deal yesterday. could the prime minister given absolute decision that the government review of tidal lagoons that the tidal lagoon project fits u.k. energy strategy and further recognize the economic p

i think we really need to. >> libya, for all practical purposes, a failed state. you don't want u.s. ground troops. you're talking about what we just saw the u.s. do in somalia, air strikes. >> air strikes, exactly, and as well to see our european allies that have really the most at stake in libya gets out of hand as it would be a gateway to southern europe. to see our allies take the lead in terms of military action there. to push back, make sure that they don't expand that foothold insert. because if they do, it's going to be another nightmare. >> you think the administration's going to do that, the president's going to sign off on a more aggressive air campaign against isis in libya? >> i think they'll have to. i think we saw the didn'ting of that with the strike that took out that tunisian leader who was recruiting and facilitating people moving into from tunisia to libya. but it has to be part of a broader strategy, quite frankly, in much of north south africa. boko haram is the most deadly of the terrorist affiliates. but also a growing presence in places li

and of our allies. >> when you look at libya, she said that libya isn't perfect. libya is far from perfect. you essentially have two competing governments in libya trying to operate right now and isis controlling territory along the coast, and we've seen beheading videos from isis take place in libya. libya is a mess right now. there's a power vacuum and power vacuums are never good, they've become hot beds of terrorism. at the same time she does have a foreign policy background and has that experience. when you've been the person in the arena, compared to some of the politicians who have never been in the arena, you're going to have to defend some of the decision the. >> that's what she's doing right now. right now it looks like an albatross around her neck rather than a torch in her hand in terms of winning over voters and using this as something that she's running on, instead, it's something that she's trying to re-- quietly rewrite what really happened. >> yes, well, she knows that. every decision she's made is up to be looked at in this political cycle. as sh

libya now is in total chaos. the u.n. representative said this, isis had quote taken advantage of the political and security vacuum and is expanding to the west, east, and south, while libya's financial resources are dwindling. the networks are booming. if the intervention of libya was one of your great foreign policy successes. >> let's talk about it in context, and let's remember what was going on at the time. it was during the so called arab spring, people in libya who had been living under the dictatorship of gadhafi for 42 years were rising up. and he, as we all can remember, was a ruthless dictator with american blood on his hands. ronald reagan tried to take him out because of the danger he posed 37 and once it became clear to him that the people of libya were trying to get more freedom and hopefully a better future, he basically said he was going to hunt them down like cockroaches. the europeans who had a lot more of a connection with libya, going back mr. decades were absolutely intent upon working with us with n

but other things too, special forces are operating in central libya. and the real questions, if the armed forces in eastern lib use will accept that. >> he has been opposed to it, because one of the conditions of the unity government is that he would step down, and he's not prepared to do that. so there are things to be solved before the new government can go ahead. >> one of the things in the landscape with libya, on the ground, the representatives, all the politicians, and what does that mean for the short to meme-termed future, not just for the libyan people, but the sort of international dimension, with isil influence and of course the refugees. >> the problem has always been that on the ground, the extremist militias are more powerful than the government that's supposed to control them. and that's a problem that has persisted. the real problem, we have to be there to accept it. and they are getting very indeed. another consideration too, institution innings libya that still govern the whole country. one is the central bank and the other is the nat

libya is a perfect example. his critique of david cameron and nicolas sarkozy then the president of france, he counted on them to do more after gadhafi was overthrown. where was the united states? we turned our back on libya. that's the principal reason libya descended itself into anarchy and ambassador chris stevens and three others were killed in benghazi in september of 2012. the president has a remarkable way of finding others who are responsible for the things that go wrong on his own watch. >> this morning jeffrey goldberg was on "face the nation" and said basically the president felt that libya was his iraq and the lesson of all this is don't get involved. is that a proper foreign policy, do you think? >> well, that's obama's policy up until about half a page later when he explains why you do get involved. that's part of the problem with this article, which was written as if it were by a white house flack. the president's got it all different ways, on the one hand, on the other hand, on the third hand. th