when al qaeda goes down, forget about al qaeda, it's isis that's the threat. the situation has to be seen as two threats emanating from two directions. these two threats are building up, they are becoming bigger. 16 years of war and terror more than trillions of dollars spent and mobilizing almost all the countries in the world and resources and so on and so forth and what we have today is a bigger isis on the tub of that, a bigger -- a bigger al qaeda and on the top of that we have isis which is competing with al qaeda over the global leadership of jihad. they want -- both of them are, i think this is what defines the next few years, as they compete over the global leadership of jihad. on the top of the two threats we have something that we don't talk about a lot, which is -- and i think we can start envision the third way of jihad, another iteration of jihad, the next big thing in jihad which is an idea between al qaeda's focus on the winning hearts and minds and trying not to provoke the population against it and between isis, this aggressive way of even sp

boko haram, which was an undeclared al qaeda affiliate did go over. , but i think al qaeda has emerged from both of these as a much stronger organization than it was in 2010. on the one hand, it skillfully played itself off of isis to portray its organization as being the moderate jihadists, people who you might not like but you can do business with. and really to the degree you can operate openly and i'm certain, , nadia, you saw this in the region it's shocking compared to , what we would have expected five years ago, four years ago. in jordan, you have figures, major al qaeda ideologues who have been released from prison in part because they are anti-isis. not just released from prison but able to appear on , television. the jordanians are no dummies. to them they consider isis to be , the more important threat. they're doing part of what the hashemite kingdom has always done, which is playing things to muddle through in the immediate term and deal with the longer term consequences when they get there. on al qaeda's part, being more restrained than isis has been very helpful. their

al qaeda before it in iraq, other weapons. when you have a korean bomb people die from the blast not the chlorine. it's inefficient. most of these groups have not gone down that group. it's years to kill somebody with a bomb or shoot them. the big caveat to this is bioterrorism. the big caveat comes in two flavors. first, it was bruce who had idiosyncratic motives to kill people after 9/11. he was a microbiologist at a senior level in the government. to me it's not how trying to become a killed microbiologist, it's adopting jihadist ideas or other extreme ideas. that i think is a reasonable concern. you can imagine indonesian microbiologist who suddenly thinks the ideas are the right ones. that's a big problem. the second problem is editing. i'm not a scientist, my comments will quickly show, but gene editing takes us into a whole new world. a lot of good things. like any technological development bad things. could you imagine a virus that attacked people with distinct jewish heritage or irish. or choose your flavor. this is t

in the late 1990s we saw al qaeda stability to make good on these threats. the 1998 bombings of bombings of two of our embassies in east africa killed over 200 people and injured more than 4500 others. two years later on october 12, 2000, al qaeda attacked the uss cole as it was refueling in aden harbor killing 17 american sailors and injuring 39. all of this led up to the planes operation. on september 11, 2,001,001, 19 al qaeda operatives hijacked for commercial jetliners and turn them into missiles. two of the planes were flown into the twin towers. symbols of our nation's economic might causing them to collapse. a third hit the pentagon, nursing for the world's most powerful military. a fourth perhaps bound for the capital building crashed in a field near shanksville pennsylvania. when the 40 passengers and crew of flight 93 aerobically storm the cockpit in an effort to overcome the hijackers. in all nearly 3000 people were killed that day and more than x thousand injured. it was our nation's deadliest day since antietam. fast-forward to 2014, after we k

qaeda central of al qaeda central in the arab spring in which al qaeda's ideas, but surely this would be up for it and the terrorism would come at such an order. i was completely and utterly wrong. since we are with a bunch of smart people and also listening to this on c-span, i will make c political science observation,, which is hobbes wrote in 1651. the english civil war was winding down. why did he write it? he did so because he was affected on his country. what he said essentially was the only thing was anarchy. the first thing we need is order. we ran a huge political it wronment in iraq in 2003 and decapitated the state and the armies but the result that anybody knows what happens. and then we did the same thing in libya. it's like we didn't even pay attention. they explained so in a sense of coalition with libya and iraq in a sense of ownership which would've had its own problems could have been any worse with what we see. that raises the question of where do we go from here. one point i think it's very important to fall for al qaeda is doing pretty well what does it mean for

if al qaeda struck here, this was where he wanted to be. (crowd cheering) >> five, four, three, two, one! (loud cheering) (music playing) >> and i remember talking to john shortly after midnight. there was a sense of accomplishment. we had just made the arrests in the ressam spin-off, and, you know, certainly we believed that we got everybody that we needed to find, but, you know, you're never really 100% sure of that. >> and so, i think a lot of the fbi leadership for the first time realized that o'neill was right, that there probably were al qaeda people in the united states. they realized that only after they looked at the results of the investigation of the millennium-bombing plot. so by february of 2000, i think senior people in the fbi were saying there probably is a network here in the united states and we have to change the way the fbi goes about finding that network. >> narrator: if the bureau was finally going to reorganize itself to take on terror, o'neill wanted significant influence in that process. he needed a highly visible,

in the late 1990s we saw al qaeda's ability to make good on these threats. the 1998 bombings of two of our embassies in east africa killed over 200 people and injured more than 4,500 others. two years later, on october 12th, 2000, al qaeda attacked the "uss cole" as it was refuelling in aiden harbor, killing 17 american sailors and injuring 39. all of this led up to the planes operation. on september 11th, 2001, 19 al qaeda operatives hijacked four commercial jetliners and turned them into missiles. two of the planes were flown into the world trade center's twin towers, symbols of our nation's economic might, causing them to collapse. a third hit the pentagon, the nerve center for the world's most powerful military. a fourth, perhaps bound for the capitol building, crashed in a field near shanksville, pennsylvania. when the 40 passengers and crew of flight 93 heroically stormed the cockpit in an effort to overcome the hijackers. in all, nearly 3,000 people were killed that day and more than 6,000 injured. it was our nation's deadliest day since antietaantiet

at the time they say al qaeda was largely agricultural as they work on the farm. could he have been persuaded ? i don't know. and they may a critical error to the sudanese authorities of 1996. to pay him as a finance your the at the sydney said here he is under control he has investments. if you make him leave he will go to afghanistan. in the u.s. authorities said we don't want him and we had no indictments so what were we going to do with them? and to expel him from the country and the business manager that they had $50,000 but that intelligence man and in the whole movement and he held the u.s. responsible in the most difficult part of the story to understand mid-1996 he is flat busted broke. he has won gold down to a handful. was far restrained tears go is the of leftovers he gets to afghanistan to be a financier and a construction mogul. in part based on reality and a year-and-a-half later he is running a $30 million per year terrorist training operation to funnel terrorists to hot spots everywhere. what happened in that year and a half? end the movement that

i focus on al-qaeda and i just wrote a report that argued against distinction between al-qaeda and the islamic state as a threat. because they are both from the same ideological movement, and our focus in one group or another has allowed the other side to actually continue to strengthen. and so while we have been focused on defeating isis inside rocket and mosul, al-qaeda itself the strength of notches inside of syria but it is resurgent inside afghanistan, much stronger and human. it control of territory in some all you get its expanded operations inside of mali and looking to capitalize on the libyan civil war. so what we're looking at is the united states and the west have focus on the threats of the islamic state which is significant and certainly the dog that is barking, but in the meantime al-qaeda has gone below the radar. it has issued a taxis major western targets. it's conducted regional attacks but it has avoided drawing the policy attention back. what it is doing is pursuing its primary objective, it is not seeking to kill americans as the number one objective. that's what

the efforts that we've seen from al qaeda are not just the military side but the fact that al qaeda was in now is one of the strongest groups in the syrian opposition, but al qaeda has pursued governance and sought to win the hearts and minds, it's something we have struggled to do as we get involved in conflict and al qaeda has struggled as well and it's actually poised to move forward in a way where it's embedding itself within local population and insinuating itself into conflicts that will let al qaeda be much stronger in size in ten years. it hasn't given up on those terrorist attacks, the big attacks that bring down airliners, the bomb maker that was al qaeda and yemen signature bomb maker even though syria is still at large training individuals, we should expect to see something come from al qaeda in the next 5 - 10 years if not before that. the question is when it turns its attention back on the united states. i think ezra looking at those, this is where our counterterrorism strategy is falling short. from our perspective, we focused on the terrorist. they are the ones connectin

the late 1990s we saw al qaeda's ability to make good on these threats. the bomb accident in east africa killed over 200 people and injured over 4,500 others. two years later on october 12th, 2000, al qaeda attacked the uss cole killing 17 american sailors and injuring 39. all of this led up to the plane's operation. on september 11th, 2001, 19 al qaeda operatives hijacked four commercial jet liners and turned them into missile. two were felony into the world trade center causing them to collapse. a third hit the pentagon. the nerve center for the world's most powerful military. a fourth, perhaps bound for the capital building, crashed in a field near shanksville, pennsylvania. when the 40 passengers and crew of flight 93 stormed the cockpit in order to overcome the hijackers n. all nearly 3,000 people were killed that day and nearly 6,000 injured fast forward to 2014. after we killed osama bin laden, a new form of the same threats emerged. like its predecessor in afghanistan, isis developed a centralized command to order attacks outside of its false cali

and was third-highest ranking member in al-qaeda. he ran a training camp in afghanistan. come to find out, none of that are most of that is not true about the abu zubaydah we are holding in guantÁnamo right now but it fits a abu zubaydah, his cousin that lived in, lived in all those places, palestine and grew up and joined al-qaeda but actually didn't florida. he was a pilot. a pilot, he lived about a mile away from the hijackers in florida, the 9/11 hijackers. he moved to montana right before 9/11. he bought a 5000-acre ranch with $650,000 worth of travelers checks. >> that was located by -- >> by the dam which he was going to the library continuously studying. i interviewed many people in montana and in florida. he was a very shady character. he was connected with the al-qaeda spies here in the u.s., and he was studying and we believe he wanted to blow up the fort peck dam which would've ruined hundreds of thousands of acres. i think the book was actually wrong by saying just thousands of acres. it's hundreds of thousands of farml

qaeda but can you defensively say who is not al-qaeda in syria given that that ideology is somewhat similar that they have their professional relationship existing there can you as a professional as a security professional definitively say that let's say this group represents a secular moderate opposition even though you know it uses violence i don't have to make that judgment call that's the wonderful thing right so those do not go she is going on and on you know that the government of jordan has been drawn up a list on all of the groups inside syria so for me i'm dealing with those groups that are on the list. right so as soon as group x. or y. in syria gets on the list it's part of my money as long as it's not on them it's simply not my money mr shinde they're approaching this problem in a sound one broader sense your security professional of many many decades of experience i'm sure this is not just about who is on the list and who is not them i would suppose that you're concerned with the proliferation of terrorism as such do you think it is helpful as a security professional to

qaeda but can you defensively say who is not al-qaeda in syria given that that ideology is somewhat similar that they. professional relationship existing there can you as a professional as a security professional definitively say that let's say these group represents secular moderate opposition even though you know it uses violence i don't have to make that judgement call that's the wonderful thing right so those distant goshi going on and on you know that the government of jordan has been drawn up a list on all of the groups in inside syria so for me i'm dealing with those groups that are on the list right so as soon as group x. or y. in syria gets on the list it's part of my mum bit slow as it's not on them it's simply not my mom mr shinde they're sure you're approaching this problem in a sound one broader sense your security professional for many many decades of experience i'm sure this is not just about who is on the list and who is not them i would suppose that you're concerned with the proliferation of terrorism as such do you think it is helpful as a security professional to

he is the prophet of al qaeda, profit prices. he is the inspiration and. [inaudible] was the inspiration. i think we can make a tremendous progress in the efforts and it's not only removing jihadist material but that is their engine in their power and it is also winning the war of ideology at the end of the day. in the counter narrative and what ideology will prevail. isis was the winning team. they had the brand name. everybody wanted to be a part of isis. the younger generation didn't have a future. al qaeda has some pretty sophisticated, high-level educated people doctors and scientists. isis is not the case. it's more of a populist movement within the jihadist world. i think the counter narrative is we do prevail because of their ideology prevails over this destructive hate, hateful ideology and the half but we have to stay on top of this. i love jane harman's quote that terrorist don't check our political affiliation. this is a bipartisan center. i don't see terrorism as a partisan issue and i don't manipulated for political means. basically, it is ab

qaeda but can you defensively say who is not al-qaeda in syria given that that ideology is somewhat similar that they have their professional relationship existing there can you as a professional as a security professional definitively say that let's say these group represents secular moderate opposition even though you know it uses violence i don't have to make that judgment call that's the wonderful thing right so those distant goshi going on and you know that the government of jordan has been drawn up a list on all of the groups in inside syria so for me i'm dealing with those groups that are on the list right so as soon as group x. or y. in syria gets on the list it's part of my money as long as it's not on the move. you know that moment mr schindler sure you're approaching this problem in a sound one broader sense of your security professional of many many decades of experience i'm sure this is not just about who is on the list and who is not them i would suppose that you're concerned with the proliferation of terrorism as such do you think it is helpful as a security professio

qaeda but can you defensively say who is not al-qaeda in syria given that that ideology is somewhat similar that they have their professional relationship existing there can you as a professional as a security professional definitively say that let's say these group represents secular moderate opposition even though you know it uses violence i don't have to make that judgment call that's the wonderful thing right so those distant goshi going on and you know that the government of jordan has been drawn up a list on all of the groups inside syria so for me i'm dealing. those groups that are on the list right so as soon as group x. or y. in syria gets on the list it's part of my mum because long as it's not on them it's simply not my money mr shinde they're sure you're approaching this problem in a sound one broader sense your security professional of many many decades of experience i'm sure this is not just about who is on the list and who is not them i would suppose that you're concerned with the proliferation of terrorism as such do you think it is helpful as a security professional

qaeda but can you defend to the police say who is not al-qaeda in syria given that that ideology is somewhat similar that they have their professional relationship existing that can you as a professional as a security professional definitively say that let's say these group represents secular moderate opposition even though you know it uses violence i don't have to make that judgment call that's the wonderful thing right so those distant goshi going on and you know that the government of jordan has been drawn up a list on all of the groups inside syria so for me i'm dealing with those groups that are on the list right so as soon as group x. or y. in syria gets on the list it's part of my money as long as it's not on them it's simply not my money mr shinde they're approaching this problem in a sound one broader sense your security professional for many many decades of experience i'm sure this is not just about who is on the list and who is not them i would suppose that you are concerned with the proliferation of terrorism as such do you think it is helpful as a security professional

>> the mid-1990s, al qaeda was competing for dominance. if are all of them, westerners were an ideal target. bin laden moved operations from saudi arabia to sudan. they expelled him in 1996, he fled to afghanistan. in 1998, he issued a full-fledged declaration of war against infidels and america in particular. >> we did not respond. congress did not meet. the president did not go to congress. there was something wrong with the jihadists marching and the victims were not responding. >> khalid shaikh mohammed was part of his inner circle. >> he was the brains behind bin lad laden. terrorism in the united states will do us good. >> 7 august, 1998. two american embassies in kenya and tanzania are bombed and 4,000 are wounded and 2,000 killed, including 12 americans. plipt retaliated by launching missiles into afghanistan and sudan. >> i have responsibility to protect this country. tried and i failed to get bin laden. i regret it, but i tried. i did everything i thought i could responsibly could. >> al qaeda strikes in yemen. suicide bombers hi

qaeda, from the al qaeda we've been fighting. which makes it a much, much more difficult task i think, and a possible one, to sit down with the taliban and try to separate them. >> i was sitting basically where you are sitting right now throughout much of the day doing the washington end of the news anchoring. it was one of those days. you saw the second plane hit and you knew the first one was no accident. the second one obviously not as well. things were not going to be the same in america. the world we woke up to had changed, we knew it then. 16 years on, we are still engaged in the struggle. it's a long way from over but it's notable, as you pointed out, that the threat has evolved. it's evolved because in many respects its weekend. they have not succeeded in mounting the kind of big operation against our country that the terrorists succeeded mounting that day. there been smaller attacks and attacks in other parts of the world but we have heard and ourselves as a target in many meaningful ways. as we remember those who died o

qaeda or al qaeda affiliates like i had already sharm none of them are have are independent of foreign powers none of them have acted independently of any of these extremist extremist groups a lot of these so-called free syrian army groups are basically just shops they are like supermarkets they get their weapons and then they distribute them to extremist groups so that the united states and other countries can can say that we are not directly in contact with extremists so they are the middlemen they make their money and they spread their weapons to the extremists so in reality without the united states. and it's coordination especially the cia the hundreds of thousands of people who have died in syria would not have died it would have been a small conflict that would have ended in two thousand and eleven or two thousand and twelve and things interior would have been normal and we wouldn't have millions of refugees both inside and outside the country ok so i share your insight on this that was professor side mohammed marandi from the university of toronto. international and. may be the

al-qaeda coming to the rescue and. nothing like being needed to keep up the fight so i mean that's pretty easy to figure out and while the u.s. and russian resources focused on isis. yeah it is able to regroup and of course they're both instruments of western intelligence. and on the be periodically shipped polarities and now they're going back to kind of to do do the job so. they're poked instruments of ultimately of western intelligence because they meet the objectives of the western powers and saudi arabia and the. gulf monarchies their partners israel or the balkanization of or that region this is all part of the plan and everything's going as planned. and harry i experts would definitely agree with you there saying that the syrian army can only focus on one terrorist organization at a time now and a tweet by a former cia operative i haven't mcmullan i want to read you something he said he said my job and if the i.a.e.a. with to go out and convince al-qaeda operatives to instead work with us now does this help expl

qaeda still exists is retreated just this morning on the subject of the headline al qaeda should not have survived for sixteen years since nine eleven and how has it one could look no further than u.s. representative tulsi gabbard stop arming terrorist act introduced in the congress this year to see where the one major problem lie is lest we forget who helped train osama bin laden in the first place the cia with the support of the us government used bin laden and supported his endeavors against the soviet union in afghanistan they called him a warrior they helped him build the organization that would lead or be known as al qaeda all to crush the soviet union we taught bin ladin and associates how to run it disintegration of war campaign against the superpower and yet we still wonder how al qaeda and its many competitors have managed to stay afloat perhaps it's things like five hundred. dollars the u.s. spent in bosnia between one thousand nine hundred two and one thousand and five training and equipping rebels or the sixty four million dollars training georgian rebels from two thousa

definitely say who is al qaeda but can you defend to the police say who is not al qaeda in syria given that that ideology is somewhat similar that they had their professional relationship existing there can you as a professional as a security professional definitively say that let's say these group represents secular moderate opposition even though you know it uses violence i don't have to make that judgment call that's the wonderful thing right so those distant goshi going on and you know that the government of jordan has been drawn up a list on all of the groups in inside syria so for me i'm dealing with those groups that are on the list right so as soon as group x. or y. in syria gets on the list it's part of my mum bit slow as it's not on them it's simply not my money mr shinde they're sure he are approaching this problem in a somewhat broader sense your security professional for many many decades of experience i'm sure this is not just about who is on the list and who is not them i would suppose that you're concerned with the proliferation of terrorism as such do you think it is h

qaeda still exists newsweek treated bed just this morning on the subject of the headline al qaeda should not have survived for sixteen years since nine eleven and how has it one could look no further than u.s. representative tulsi gabbard stop arming terrorist act introduced in the congress this year to see where the one major problem lie is lest we forget who helped train osama bin laden in the first place the cia with the support of the us government used bin laden and supported his endeavors against the soviet union in afghanistan they called him a warrior they helped him build the organization that would lead or be known as al qaeda all to crush the soviet union we taught bin ladin and associates how to run it disintegration of war campaign against a superpower and yet we still wonder how al qaeda and its many competitors have managed to stay afloat perhaps it's things like five hundred. dollars the u.s. spent in bosnia between one thousand nine hundred two and one thousand and five training and equipping rebels or the sixty four million dollars training georgian rebels from two thou

and when you talk to them about the residual al qaeda, the way in which al qaeda has reorganized, when you talk about self-radicalizing people who may not be in their communities but are in our communities and are radicalized through the internet they may not focus on that. we're dealing with a stratified threat. we're dealing with a problem in our communities of people who do not travel. and become radicalized and move to violence. we're dealing with conspiracies that do not really involve an overseas element. neither the attack at london bridge nor the explosive attack in manchester really had a foreign driver. these were british plots by british people. their parents may have been from overseas. they were not. so we have a stratification issue that we need to address. my third thought for you is we have a fundamental problem when we think about the threat and that is persistence. that there are groups over there, no matter how often they are degraded, no matter what geography they lose, who persist in certain things. they like attacking totemic buildings and sites. they like attacki

they ask me often, what's the difference between bin laden, al qaeda and al baghdadi and isis? i think it's simple, it's the reach and bandwidth that they have globally over the internet to recruit training and rod -- radicalize. as we're collapsing the caliphate we're having military success with delta forces and raqqa, syria to bring them down and stop the threat to the homeland we know is coming out of there. and as we squeeze that, the messages that we're hearing from the sheik, the guy who influenced and inspired the new york bomber, with the two bombs he tried to detonate. the message no longer is coming from syria. the message is now stay where you are and kill by any means necessary, by vehicle, by knife, by any means necessary and we're seeing this playing out in the streets of europe almost on a weekly basis i did the reports, barcelona just had one of these major events as well. i've been so proud and, yet, surprised how we have been able to stop this from happening in the united states, different the fact how difficult it is to dete detect, deter and disrupt the plo

qaeda still exists is retreated just this morning on the subject of the headline al qaeda should not have survived for sixteen years since nine eleven and how has it one could look no further than u.s. representative stop arming terrorist act introduced in the congress this year to see where that one major problem lies lest we forget who helped train osama bin laden in the first place the cia with the support of the u.s. government used bin laden and supported his endeavors against the soviet union in afghanistan they called him a warrior they helped him build the organization that would lead or be known as al qaeda all to crush the soviet union we taught bin ladin and associates how to run it disintegration of war campaign against a superpower and yet we still wonder how al qaeda and its many competitors have managed to stay afloat perhaps it's things like five hundred million dollars the u.s. spent in bosnia between one thousand nine hundred two and one thousand and five training and equipping rebels or the sixty four million dollars training georgian rebels from two thousand and o

qaeda still exists it is retreated just this morning on the subject of the headline al qaeda should not have survived for sixteen years since nine eleven how has it one could look no further than u.s. representative stop arming terrorist act introduced in the congress this year to see where the one major problem lies lest we forget who helped train osama bin laden in the first place the cia with the support of the u.s. government used bin laden and supported his endeavors against the soviet union in afghanistan they called him a warrior they helped him build the organization that would lead or be known as al qaeda all to crush the soviet union we taught bin ladin and associates how to run it disintegration of war campaign against a superpower and yet we still wonder how al qaeda and its many competitors have managed to stay afloat perhaps it's things like five hundred million dollars the u.s. spent in bosnia between one thousand nine hundred two and one thousand and five training and equipping rebels or the sixty four million dollars training georgian rebels from two thousand and on

people ask me often, what's the difference between bin laden, al qaeda, and al baghdadi and isis? i think the answer is simple but profound, it's the reach and bandwidth they have over the internet to recruit, train, and radicalize. and what we're seeing, we have had military access in mosul, and raqqa, we know what's coming out of there. as we squeeze that, the messages we're hearing from sheik adnani, who influenced and inspired the new york bomber, the message no longer is come to syria, it's stay where you are, and kill by me means necessary. by vehicle, by knife, by any means necessary. and we're seeing this playing out in the streets of europe. almost on a weekly basis, i get these reports. barcelona just had one of these major events as well. i've been so proud, and yet surprised, at how we've been able to stop this from happening in the united states, given the fact of how difficult it is to detect and deter these plots when you're seeing these messages every day on the internet. how do we stop this and better protect americans? i've sat down with google, facebook, twitter

qaeda still exists newsweek treated just this morning on the subject of the headline al qaeda should not have survived for sixteen years since nine eleven and how has it one could look no further than u.s. representative stop arming terrorist act introduced in the congress this year to see where the one major problem lies lest we forget who helped train osama bin laden in the first place the cia with the support of the u.s. government used bin laden and supported his endeavors against the soviet union in afghanistan they called him a warrior they helped him build the organization that would lead or be known as al qaeda all to crush the soviet union we taught bin ladin and associates how to run it disintegration of war campaign against the superpower and yet we still wonder how al qaeda and its many competitors have managed to stay afloat perhaps it's things like five hundred million dollars the u.s. spent in bosnia between one thousand nine hundred two in one thousand nine hundred five training and equipping rebels or the sixty four million dollars training georgian rebels from two t

we are seeing al qaeda and isis elements in place. and in latin america. one more question and we have time for a couple from the room. it's hard to get one's arms around the investments, but it has been tremendous. we have had expert focusing, frankly too much, it can't be sustained. others say it is an adequate. how do you think of the resource commitment and where it is directed? to what extent do you think there will be a shift away from to the state department and dod? is not socongress great at prevention on the front and. -- front end. we respond to crises. that's how the homeland security was put together was in response to a crisis. i don't want to be in a reactive mode. i want to be proactive in terms of prevention to protect american lives. the second half. >> where resources go and how we divide between the kinetics side of the equation -- >> oh, the soft power. the soft power is incredibly important. you can cut my soft power, but don't make more bullets. there is an element to killing the jihadists so they can't kill us.

qaeda still exists is retreated just this morning on the subject of the headline al qaeda should not have survived for sixteen years since nine eleven how has it one could look no further than u.s. representative told stop arming terrorist act introduced in the congress this year to see where the one major problem lies lest we forget who helped train osama bin laden in the first place the cia with the support of the u.s. government used bin laden and supported his endeavors against the soviet union in afghanistan they called him a warrior they helped him build the organization that would lead or be known as al qaeda all to crush the soviet union we taught bin ladin and associates how to run it disintegration of war campaign against a superpower and yet we still wonder how al qaeda and its many competitors have managed to stay afloat perhaps it's things like five hundred million dollars the u.s. spent in bosnia between one thousand nine hundred two and one thousand and five training and equipping rebels or the sixty four million dollars training georgian rebels from two thousand and o

we had a number of efforts by an al qaeda affiliate to rebrand itself without any doctrinal changes and specifically to sort of distance itself from the al qaeda title so again how are you going to define who is all qaeda and who is not no it's more than the ideology and in fact most of the groups on the sanctions list i'm not called what for example is on the sanctions list the terror. the sanctions so if the definition that gets you on the list is number one you need to take concrete action in support off on behalf of in the name of al-qaeda so it is about active engagement on recruitment on getting money on or curing rep or on supporting in any actual process for example if you are seeking acts of measures. targeting civilians killing innocent people in the name of let's say some religious ideology but do not associate yourself with al-qaeda that you are not branded as terrorists not in this sanctions regime right saw days of course the second part of the un the counter-terrorism committee that deals with all forms of terms but i'm advising you to particular regime that actually

so, is he the new leader of the al qaeda movement? i have already mentioned the al qaeda affiliate in syria, as being one that -- in my role in the white house i was exceptionally focused on, which is why quite frankly, and the president was exceptionally focused on it, which is why we begin the campaign against isis in syria in 2014. the isis bomb making factory in syria was one of the first targets the united states hit. so, that has never been far from our mind. on the other hand, we have seen this evolution and this disparate metastases of the movement that bin laden tried to promote. and in many respects, the discipline that he tried to impose on his organization to do complex and lengthy planning for attacks like 9/11. that discipline has eroded, and we have much more opportunistic and freelance operations, some of which we have had success against, some of which we have not. i think it has diminished in its cohesion, if nothing else. david: let's turn to syria since you mentioned that. i am sure it took up a large share of your

so, is he the new leader of the al qaeda movement? i have already mentioned the al qaeda affiliate in syria, as being one that -- in my role in the white house i was exceptionally focused on, which is why quite frankly, and the president was exceptionally focused on it, which is why we begin the campaign against isis and -- isis in syria in 2014. the isis bomb making factory in syria was one of the first targets the united states hit. so, that has never been far from our mind. on the other hand, we have seen this evolution and this disparate metastases of the movement that bin laden tried to promote. and in many respects, the discipline that he tried to impose on his organization to do complex and lengthy planning for attacks like 9/11. that discipline has eroded, and we have much more opportunistic and freelance operations, some of which we have had success against, some of which we have not. i think it has diminished in itr david: cohesion, if nothing else. let'e you mentioned that. i am sure it took up a large share of your time in

ice and some al qaeda linked groups. presidents have can do nothing to get access to that area so if the americans want to put pressure on diet groups on the groups that they support in the region they can surely provide that axis well you know whether that area is under us control or not i honestly do not know but i will tell you conducting those strikes on civilians is a violation of international law so clearly the assad regime has demonstrated time and again that they are unwilling to comport with international law the united nations has done nothing and i grow increasingly concerned look i understand that russia has had a long relationship with syria but at some point in time i mean even even secretary level of said our support for the assad regime is not unconditional saluki it's not unconditional command there but it will come to be contingent on the actual abbott and snot on one side what some anonymous sources in the state department or the pentagon leaked to the media that's the only point of the discussion her

al qaeda and the arabian peninsula, isis. so we can't forget 16 years later, be complacent about the 9/11-style threat. but we're in a new phase, and we've got a lot more to do on that new phase. and that is the hallmark of which is the self radicalized individual, the individual sometimes known as a lone wolf. we can talk about that. or home-grown terrorist. and we've got a lot more to do on that score, because the net that we built, that i described, post 9/11, is not designed for that threat. because those threat actors, san bernardino, orlando, the new york/new jersey plot from last summer, charlottesville. those actors don't come into the net that we built if we don't have contact with international terrorist groups, a shadowy group of hierarchical figures operating from caves in afghanistan. communicating with people here. if that's not the trait, that's the net we built. and we need to construct a new one. how do you understand when -- and see when something goes wrong in somebody's mind, such that they take a machine

then handed over to groups like isis al qaeda in twenty fifteen for example syrian rebels trained by the us gave some of their u.s. supplied weapons to the front in exchange for safe passage to the country that's undeniable that happened in that is actually not what cia officials in charge of the program said. actually top cia officials in charge of the program the top general in charge so to speak in charge of the program continued to argue for the program to continue even under mr trump even under foggy but are you saying that didn't happen and i'm saying american never gave any to al qaeda group regardless of this international degree you know you're right i mean some some of that happened but think about it. but not in any statistically significant point let me put the point to patrick patrick you said earlier that from the very beginning you thought that there was no real chance of the opposition winning a military victory and i thought but what what but what should syrians have done who were opposed to assad who were being killed by such as they've just surrendered because they

al-qaeda coming to the rescue and. nothing like being needed and he fights i mean that's pretty easy to figure out and while the u.s. and russian resources focused on the isis. yeah it is able to regroup and of course they have both instruments western intelligence so she has been known to be periodically shipped a laboratories and now they're going back. to do the job. on their provoked instruments ultimately of western intelligence because they beat the objectives of the western powers and the saudi arabia and the gulf monarchies them through their partners israel or the to balkanisation of or that region this is all part of the plan and everything's going as planned. and harry i act third to a deaf we agree with you out there saying that the syrian army can only focus on one terrorist organization at a time now and a tweet by a former cia operative that haven't mcmullan i want to read you something he said he said my job and if the i.a.e.a. with to go out and convince al qaeda operatives to instead work with us now

funding those groups al qaeda linked groups this is not a controversial statement this is something that them are can intelligence also recognize how do you think the the the valid of the people who died under your command with feel about it. i think that these families are very frustrated that we have gone on almost seventeen years now and have yet to see justice for those sailors that were killed in that attack and the they when they look at it right now when i talk to them they trust that the u.s. government is doing what is necessary to go after both al qaeda first and foremost they're going after isis and at the end of the day i think that they are what we are trusting that the united states government is gathering the intelligence necessary to ensure that we take on these groups and that we do one of two things when it comes to terrorists who want to harm americans we hunt them down and we are capture them or we kill them but don't you think that perhaps here in the west in too much trust in the american government given the absolutely disastrous consequences of the american i

east and some al qaeda linked groups present does have can do nothing to get access to that area so if the americans want to put pressure on dire groups on the groups that they support in the region they can surely provide that access well you know whether that area is under u.s. control or not i honestly do not know but i will tell you conducting those strikes on civilians is a violation of international law so clearly the assad regime has demonstrated time and again that they are unwilling to comport with international law the united nations has done nothing and i grow increasingly concerned look i understand that russia has had a long relationship with syria but at some point in time i mean even even secretary level of said our support for the assad regime is not unconditional saluki it's not unconditional command there but it will come to be contingent on the actual avid and snot on one side what some anonymous sources in the state department or the pentagon leaked to the media that's the only point of the discussion here if you indeed have the abbot and bring it out and make ru

moment when the second plane hit the building i knew that it was al qaeda. i instantly knew that there was no question in my mind who had done it. i knew that we would be going to war. i knew i had to be part of that. >> you have been focus on counterterrorism for years. you were there during a weird time one month before the african bombing of 1998 you are at one of the embassies talking about how bad the security was. that is correct, i happened to be there by chance in nairobi. theretalking to a officer about their poor security. there or physical security of the embassy. we were standing in the exact spot where a truck bomb was going to detonate and killed five people. i was overseas at the time when that attack happened. i was back at my station. i went out to visit africa and i saw that newspaper that morning. of where theph bomb had gone off. i knew right where the place was. it was where i and the officer stood. the embassy officer understood the security issue. duane: absolutely. it was not a surprise to them. they had requested the move locations.