mr. carmichael: i don't know. mr. holzer: we were going to talk about some of that image as lincoln as a towering guy. mr. carmichael: we will talk about that in a moment. one of the things i thought was brilliant about the movie is it showed lincoln and how he was at his best in the bareknuckle political fights. especially, i think -- typical americans don't like to see lincoln in that light. they see him as a statesman. see --zer: they do not they don't like to see the making of the sausage. they only want to see the results. mr. carmichael: that's right. so i thought this book -- we see a man in lincoln who seduces the press in some ways that i , would like you to talk to the audience about. in light of the fact that you are an avowed lincoln man, and this is an area where lincoln does not look so good all of the time. right? mr. holzer: well, he looks more complicated than we had thought. there was a 1951 book told "lincoln and the press." i would have loved to use that title, but i thought it was a bit much. we h

peter carmichael conducts the interview, which is just over an hour. mr. carmichael: i am very pleased to welcome a good friend, harold holzer to cwi. [applause] harold is the director of hunter college is