this statement from john dowd, lawyers work for clients, not the other way around. it is the president's call to do the interview or not, john dowd is just trying to take some of the heat off the president. and pressuring people privately and pressuring people publicly, there is a long-term strategy to try to jundermine bob mueller. he can either fire him if there's wrong doing. i think there's a clear strategy on the part of the interview, one of the ways to back out of it is to claim bob mueller is biassed, the investigation has been biassed from the beginning, we can pro the memo will prove that he's been biassed and we don't want to sit down with him. >> yet what the republican house officials want is to focus on the memo and it's unseen, unverified rumored attacks on the person who, oh, guess what, is overseeing bob mueller, there have been times in history when people hold up documents and say their secret document proves terrible things about other people in government without revealing what's in the document. and that's something that we're emphasizing in ou

you talked to john dowd personal attorney. you heard the president he wanted to get all the credit i'd love to do it two or three weeks subject to my lawyers. then shockingly the lawyers come out and say, we'll decide. no decision has been made. talk to john dowd. what else can you tell us? >> well, look, i think what's going on here, and we heard this fromty cobb at the white house last night after the president spoke and from john dowd this evening. there is a shuffle brigade. and what they are trying to do is fix what the president said and say, wait, a minute, no desist has been made. it's up to the president's lawyers, as the president has kind of indicated. and i think what the president was doing last night, quite honestly, was playing to the american public. and saying, look, i have nothing to hide here. i would love to sit down and talk to the special counsel. so he's the good cop. and let the lawyers be the bad cop. and i think john dowd clearly is saying no decisions have been made. and when they have been made it w

and then john dowd saying, no, i'm going to make that call. again, something i say and people don't like this sometimes, but in fairness to the trump's white house, bill clinton's lawyers did take the position that it was negotiatable. lawyers do fight things out. so it seems to me that at a mon minimum what we're observing, is ty cobb, john dowd, these lawyers tonight trying to get back the leverage that the great deal maker seems to give away with these grand promises last night. >> there's two things i think they're trying to accomplish here, one is to signify resistance to this entire probe and also to relegitimize it. what the president did yesterday, i don't know if it's about trying to make any kind of agreements or set himself to a higher standard than bill clinton or hillary clinton, he's trying to exhibit that he's in charge, that he will make a decision. that he is the one who is deciding what's going to happen and what's not going to happen. he just seems not to realize what kind of trouble he's actually in. he thinks he can repeat

john dowd is known to be a very boisterous on some of these things. but it isn't his decision. i do think it sounds like they're trying to get the president to stop talking about this. that, i guess, is what maybe that john dowd statement is trying to say. >> look, the reporting suggests that his aides as well as apparently his legal team were surprised once again when the president unexpectedly walked in and made this announcement to a group of reporters yesterday. so is this the first time and will it be the last time that donald trump says something that surprises his own legal team? absolutely not. but i think ramesh's point is one worth remembering here. listening to the clips you teed up for us, these are his own supporters basically saying we don't want the president of the united states to testify because we think he lies so much that he might get in trouble. >> also, and i don't even think he would be setting a trap. he's saying -- >> mueller isn't setting a trap. >> he'll light himself on fire. >> can you believe this is the time we're living in where the president's

what do you think of the statement from john dowd? >> it shows that you know this is a pretty much a complete 180. this is an invitation not to do an interview at all. and you know, we know that donald trump is very capable of make iing a complete turn aroun. look, think about the tax returns. he said he release d the tax returns now he didn't do it. now he said you know, he said yesterday that he wants to talk, but now the lawyer's deciding he can overrule the president. so you know, it seems to me that this is very much an undecided question of whether or when the president will talk to the mueller investigation and the lawyers who are no dumb mys know what it was much safer at least legally not the talk to him. politically, it may be a problem not to talk to mueller, but legally, clearly, the safest course is to have the client say no. >> it's a pretty blunt, bold statement from john dowd, david axelrod, saying i will be the one to make this decision. not the president of the united states. >> yeah, it is. but you know, what i wond

john dowd calling all of that unprecedented. it is important to point out, steph, there is an investigation and they're being asked for this information and these interviews. so they're complying, really, with the requests of the special counsel, steph. >> so they could have said no, or they had to comply? >> reporter: well, they're making the case that, look, they are being transparent. could they say no? my guess is that's probably up for discussion, based on any given request. but the legal team all along has said that our strategy is to be transparent. we want to get as much information to the special couns counsel, that the special counsel has requested, as possible because we want this investigation to move swiftly and be finished as quickly as possible. >> thank you so much. >>> let's break this down with our panel. legal analyst benjamin wittes. i lied, not a panel. it is all you. the president said he is willing to speak under oath. does that apply here? i mean, whenever you speak to the fbi, don't you have to tell the

>> john dowd said that he is going to be the one to decide if the president is going to sit down for an interview with the special counsel. and moreover, he said i haven't made any decision yet. so there's a lot of cleanup going on here, anderson. the president did caveat his statement a little last night saying, you know, subject to his attorneys, and his attorney today said not so fast. >> gloria, there's more breaking news happening right now. i believe we have maggie haberman on the phone, do we have maggie? what's this breaking story that you're just breaking now? >> caller: sure, my colleague, mike schmid and i just reported that the president last june ordered the white house counsel to fire robert mueller, mcgann protested and threatened to quit if he was ordered to go through with this. the president ultimately backed down. this is the first time that we know of, anderson of the president actually engaging in this and doing what had been seen as an option he was keeping open, and he was very consciously keeping it open last july in an interview with the "times". he has said

consider this statement from white house lawyer john dowd. that was back on august 8 when he was asked if a firing was possible. john dowd said this. he said, that's never been on the table, never. it's a manifestation of the media. but just last night after these reports came out, white house lawyer ty cobb, he deferred questions, saying that, we decline to comment out of respect for the office of the special counsel and its process. so notably white house lawyers last night did not explicitly slap down these reports, but of course, wolf, the president still calling it fake news before he left switzerland. wolf? >> yes, he did, jessica. thanks very much. let's quicking ta inly take a l what was happening last june when president trump ordered his white house counsel to fire robert mueller. as you know, mueller was appointed in may after the president fired the former fbi director, james comey. here's what went on in the month that followed. on june 7th, comey releases a written statement about his interactions with the president. that statem

john dowd says as of now he has not made that decision. >> bret: john roberts in davos early friday morning. thanks. facebook says it's found what it calls "insignificant overlap" between ads targeting the donald trump presidential campaign ads tied to russian linked accounts. facebook, twitter, and google -- questions during the open senate intelligence committee. we are learning tonight how much iran has been testing its ballistic missiles since signing the nuclear deal with the u.s. and its allies in 2015. correspondent rich edson has a fox news exclusive tonight from the state department. >> secretary of state rex tillerson a traveling europe, convincing allies to join the trump administrations more aggressive stance against iran. now a new report from the foundation for defense of democracies, obtained by fox does, says it bolsters the initiations case as it details iran's missile activities since the signing of the 2015 iran nuclear agreement. the report says "iran has launched as many as 23 ballistic missiles. the islamic republic has invested considerable time, energy, resources, an

john dowd and all the other counsel will never permit this president to do it. i got to tell you that's what's so impressive if it is credible that donald mcgahn convinced the president not to fire robert mueller. if that is true, he is a constitutional hero. he avoided a national -- he avoided a national crisis. so the idea of donald trump ever appearing with all this motive and intent, evidence, would certainly result in some adverse action to the president. it's not going to happen. >> so richard what would it look like if the president doesn't, you know, testify in terms of speaking voice as opposed to in a written format after he says p he's willing to do so under oath? >> this is political gamesmanship right now. the president can sit there and try to fool everybody by saying how much he wants to testify, but that's absolutely ridiculous. there's no way his lawyers would allow him to testify. i think it goes beyond that. i think it's political suicide and potentially legal malpractice to allow him not only to testify but even to testify at a grand jury. he

now, remember, john dowd, a member of the president's legal team, was very firm after the president's comments that he would testify under oath for robert mueller saying ultimately it's up to john dowd. it's up to the legal team to determine what this interview is going to look like. it's my understanding those conversations are ongoing, and again, the word that i have heard used over and over again is that they are very sensitive. so, in other words, urging the president, other top officials here, not to publicly discuss what that interview might look like so as to effectively roil what they're trying to do behind the scenes. as you know, rachel and brian, as we've reported, the president has had a very complicated relationship with robert mueller, for example. he ordered him to be fired over the summer privately. of course, he backed down after he got a lot of resistance to do that, but again, this really looms large over this white house. even a night like tonight, this state of the union, not enough to turn the page of the discussion that looms so tall. rachel? >> thank you very m

john dowd will say to the president yes, you can or no, you can't? >> i think he will. but this is donald trump. he will do what he wants to do, and it's likely he will decide i can go in there and charm these guys, i can sell them. >> michael wolff thank you for joining us again tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up the, the panel is joining us. they will consider everything that's developed. some of them taking notes during michael wolff's conversation here. we'll see what they think the special prosecutor is going to react to. >>> also adam schiff will join us, that's coming up. ♪ ♪ave a cold, stuff happens. ♪ { sneezing ] shut down cold symptoms fast [ coughing ] with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. stay at la quinta. where we're changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. bravo, tall meeting man. start winning today. book now at lq.com why make something this intelligent... (engine starting up) ...when it can get by on looks alone? why create something that stands

john dowd, another one of the president's private attorneys, saying this to cnn. you heard the president, absolutely, under oath, nothing to fear. i will make the decision on whether the president talks to the special counsel. i have not nad decision ymade a yet. the president sometimes goes off the rail saying, i'm the boss. but timing is essential here, because if the president is going to sit down, they say that framework is two or three weeks from now. meaning we're at the crossroads. >> the two big differences between now and seven months ago -- remember, this sort of percolated up seven months ago, around that time -- >> we were talking about it on the show. >> but the differences are two things. one, then it was sort of a vague sense, vague reports that the president might have thought about this. now we have very specifics from people who were briefed about this and who, let's face it, are giving us detailed specifics about the reasoning the president had for the kind of conflict of interest that he thought meant that mueller had to go. and the second thin

john dowd will say to the president yes, you can or no, you can't? >> i think he will. but this is donald trump. he will do what he wants to do, and it's likely he will decide i can go in there and charm these guys, i can sell them. >> michael wolff thank you for joining us again tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up the, the panel is joining us. they will consider everything that's developed. some of them taking notes during michael wolff's conversation here. we'll see what they think the special prosecutor is going to react to. >>> also adam schiff will join us, that's coming up. how do you win at business? stay at la quinta. where we're changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. bravo, tall meeting man. start winning today. book now at lq.com coaching means making tough choices. stjim! you're in! y. but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the #1 brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your

what i've been told is that john dowd and jay sekulow are the ones responsible for sort of negotiating the terms of an interview between donald trump and bob mueller's team. and the important thing to bear in mind with is that john dowd has drawn a lot of criticism from steve bannon about his -- he's best known for his work with his nonprofit based on religious freedom as well as as a media personality. so that's the president's legal team going into what will be the most important interview of his life and the stage is set, of course, for a moment that's going to be historic and i think pretty unpredictable. >> and frank, interviewing a president is fundamentally different than any other interview in a probe. you certainly don't usually get two bites at the apple, whereas there are other witnesses that you can bring in and out or you put them in front of a grand jury, you check back with them if you need, particularly if something doesn't check out. watch this tonight, the president of the united states before leaving the country telling reporters that he will talk to mueller under oa

one of the president's other attorneys, his personal attorney, john dowd, told gloria borger yesterday, he has not made a final decision of whether whether or not he would sit down with robert mueller as part of this investigation. and in fact, dowd telling gloria that it is ultimately dowd's decision on whether or not he will -- the president will sit down with bob mueller. this despite the president saying before he left to davos he would be willing to sit down with bob mueller, do it under oath, under the advice of his attorneys, but some of his attorneys may not be there yet. they're saying those negotiations are still ongoing. >> can't imagine what the questions would be, did you try to fire me? thank you. >>> let's break it down further. here are cnn and legal national security asha ranga. let me use your expertise for this first. how does this change mueller's investigation on the obstruction of justice front? >> i don't think it changes it as much as potentially strengthens it. again, mueller's main challenge here is to prove in his obstruction case that the president fired com

we heard from john dowd, the president's outside lawyer,re r lawyer. the white house expects the processes of the office of the special counsel and does not comment on communications with that office, because of that. adding they expect that the office of the special counsel will facilitate the earliest possible resolution and continue its cooperation. what we heard from hogan gidly from not just john dowd but ty cobb on the plane. the only news on that front coming out of gidly. in a second we'll talk about other headlines coming out of the pool reporters in the air as the president is getting ready to land in nashville. talk about this story that came out. it does a couple of things. says that the attorneys here, the president's legal team, is considering things like the legal standard when a president needs to be interviewed and considering things like timing, and the format of any kind of discussion with the special counsel, if, in fact, robert mueller and his team decide he want to ask for this kind of interview from donald trump. now, there are s

now, remember, john dowd, a member of the president's legal team, was very firm after the president's comments that he would testify under oath for robert mueller saying ultimately it's up to john dowd. it's up to the legal team to determine what this interview is going to look like. it's my understanding those conversations are ongoing, and again, the word that i have heard used over and over again is that they are very sensitive. so, in other words, urging the president, other top officials here, not to publicly discuss what that interview might look like so as to effectively roil what they're trying to do behind the scenes. as you know, rachel and brian, as we've reported, the president has had a very complicated relationship with robert mueller, for example. he ordered him to be fired over the summer prooifivately. of course, he backed down after he got a lot of resistance to do that, but again, this really looms large over this white house. even a night like tonight, this state of the union, not enough to turn the page of the discussion that looms so tall. rachel? >> thank you ve

but the reality is that this potential conflict between the president's outside attorney john dowd and bob mueller is something that has the potential to be a really significant story in the coming weeks. >> michael schmidt, you named three of the excuses the president had for firing mueller. he gave you and peter baker and maggie haber man when you sat down with him in the oval office. i think it was a case of the president going rogue. we have your sound for it. this is the president describing what would be a red line for him with bob mueller. let's listen. >> mueller is looking at your finances and your family's finances unrelated to russia. is that a red line? >> would that be a breach of what his actual -- >> i would say yeah, i would say yes. >> and then let me just throw in something steve bannon, who we understand will be interviewed by the special counsel imminently, some day next week, do you know when? do you happen to know when steve bannon is going in? i don't mean to put you on the spot. >> i think he was maybe supposed to go in this week. i don't think it's happened. i

that said, i chatted with john dowd, trump's personal outside lawyer who does not work in the white house yesterday afternoon. when i talked with him, he essentially walked back the president's public comments. he said, first off, dowd, not trump will be deciding whether or not trump speaks with the special counsel. second, dowd told me he has not made any decision whatsoever on whether or not that's going to happen. as you all sort of hinted at earlier, the fact that trump sometimes says things that don't line with reality is likely giving a lot of concern to the president's lawyers about whether or not they want him to sit down with mueller. that said of course, the next question becomes does mueller subpoena the president? that's a couple steps down the line. i wouldn't want to speculate about it but the reality is that this potential conflict between the president's outside attorney, john dowd, and bob mueller has the potential to be a really significant stories in the coming weeks. >> michael, you named three excuses that the president had for firing mueller. he gave you another one

dowd. it details what dowd describes as unprecedented cooperation and transparency, noting more than 20 white house personnel voluntarily offered interviews and more than 20,000 pages of documents were provided, dowd says, relating, in part, to fired national security agency michael flynn, and dismissed fbi director james comey. now, president trump is also aiming to improve his image in the wake of offensive remarks, purportedly made about africans and others. the president said he deeply respects africans, in a all right sent to the african union, ahead of its annual summit this weekend. the president also said that secretary of state rex tillerson will make an extended visit to the continent in march. reena. >> ninan: errol barnett at the white house. sexual assault allegations against casino titan steve wynn shook the vegas strip friday, and there was fallout today in washington. carter evans has the latest. >> reporter: reaction to the sex saltaccusations against casino mogul steve wyn

the criminal attorney, john dowd, has proclaimed it is his decision alone whether the president does this or not. of course, he'll be able to make a recommendation. so he'll have the dowd recommendation, he'll have the cobb recommendation, he'll have all his friends on tv recommending he not do it. what's he going to do? >> i assume ty cobb doesn't have the ability of knowing what don mcghan has said. does he have notes, maybe, of what he's talked about with donald trump? don's friends on tv have a point, in a sense. when they get in that room, and they know him, he's going to be asked, mr. trump, why did you fire james comey? he's going to have to say what he said to lester holt or say something else. then he'll say, mr. trump, why did you tell mr. holt why you fired him on russia? he'll have to say that. mr. trump, did you tell him to fire james comey? and if he doesn't say what his snoets s snoets s notes say, he's in trouble. his friends on tv are not crazy. he'll be asked, did you fire -- if he answers him, i fired him because he quit my golf club. nobody is going to believe he

the criminal attorney, john dowd, has proclaimed it is his decision alone whether the president does this or not. of course, he'll be able to make a recommendation. so he'll have the dowd recommendation, he'll have the cobb recommendation, he'll have all his friends on tv recommending he not do it. what's he going to do? >> i assume ty cobb doesn't have the ability of knowing what don mcghan has said. does he have notes, maybe, of what he's talked about with donald trump? don's friends on tv have a point, in a sense. when they get in that room, and they know him, he's going to be asked, mr. trump, why did you fire james comey? he's going to have to say what he said to lester holt or say something else. then he'll say, mr. trump, why did you tell mr. holt why you fired him on russia? he'll have to say that. mr. trump, did you tell him to fire james comey? and if he doesn't say what his notes say, he's in trouble. his friends on tv are not crazy. he'll be asked, did you fire -- if he answers him, i fired him because he quit my golf club. nobody is going to believe he was fired because

and tonight, another trump attorney, john dowd, tells us that he, not the president, will be the one to decide if mueller gets an interview. and speaking to reporters, the president made one thing clear -- he may be eager to talk to mueller, but he still has concerns about the special counsel. >> do you think robert mueller will be fair to you in this larger investigation? >> we're going to find out. we're going to find out. because here's what we'll say. and everybody says, no collusion. there's no collusion. now they're saying, oh, well, did he fight back? you fight back, oh, it's obstruction. so, here's the thing -- i hope so. >> reporter: before the president left the room of reporters, he once again brought it back to his election victory, saying he defeated hillary clinton not because of the russians, but because he was such a great candidate. >> the fact is -- you people won't say this, but i'll say it. i was a much better candidate than her. you always say she was a bad candidate. you never say i was a good candidate. i was one of the greatest candidates. >> all right, the el

and tonight, another trump attorney, john dowd, tells us that he, not the president, will be the one to decide if mueller gets an interview. and speaking to reporters, the president made one thing clear -- he may be eager to talk to mueller, but he still has concerns about the special counsel. >> do you think robert mueller will be fair to you in this larger investigation? >> we're going to find out. we're going to find out. because here's what we'll say. and everybody says. no collusion. there's no collusion. now they're saying, oh, well, did he fight back? you fight back, oh, it's obstruction. so, here's the thing -- i hope so. >> reporter: before the president left the room of reporters, he once again brought it back to his election victory, saying he defeated hillary clinton not because of the russians, but because he was such a great candidate. >> the fact is -- you people won't say this, but i'll say it. i was a much better candidate than her. you always say she was a bad candidate. you never say i was a good candidate. i was one of the greatest candidates. >> all right, the el

. >> john dowd says this in a statement. quote, "the white house does not comment on communications with the office of special counsel out of respect of the osc. the prospect of the president testifying under oath and answering questions on the fly, that's likely to cause right anxiety for members of his legal team." you will note the effort by fellow republicans to discredit the special prosecutors. here is what senaor lyndsey graham said today. >> i think mr. mueller should be able to do his job without being interfered with. we cannot let anybody be above the law. they're offering to help. we have yet to find out if they took up that offer. i think mueller should look at that. >> tough to get a read on lyndsey graham that day. our lead off panel, and our msnbc political analyst, former watergate prosecuor and msnbc legal analyst, good evening to you and all happy new year to you. julia ansley, lets talk about this latest one. my question to you is what do we know of the what the mueller team wants to get out of this and w

. >> you think about it being a message to the president or john dowd, those making a decision about whether he will testify, maybe it is a message they should think about it before making that decision. great to have you with us. thank you very much. >> thanks. >>> van jones is the host of the brand-new "the van jones show" premiering tomorrow on cnn. we will talk about that in a moment. thank you for being here. >> good to be here. >> democrats's worst fears almost came to pass. it turns out from multiple sources that the president did try to fire robert mueller and was stopped by the white house counsel who refused to go along with the directive. your thoughts? >> well, it's interesting. you had grassroots organizations like moveon.org preparing for the firing of mueller, had protests ready to go assuming this was going to happen because people's confidence in donald trump is very, very low. it wasn't the people who saved him, it was a white house staffer who saved them. that is where we are as a country. this is part of a bigger set of he revelations this week of republicans's ap

so ty cobb comes in, john dowd comes in and there was a whole enough tact with bob mueller, which is he is our friend, he is not our enemy. so that changed. >> the fact that shawn turner is with us as well, former director of communications for u.s. national intelligence, the fact that mueller knew about this attempt last june to actually -- by the president to fire him, he didn't go through with it because of a threatened resignation by his counsel, it gives me the sense and i suppose it gives you the sense, there's so much going on that's really come out now that we really don't know the thrust of mueller's investigation. >> i think the one thing for sure is the only person who knows how far this investigation will extend is bob mueller. i talked to people in the fbi who have suggested that we're kind of moving on to this question of obstruction of justice but mule are aeller andm aren't down with other areas such as business dealings, paul manafort and one of the things we stopped talking about that the president keeps saying never happened is this issue of collusion. i talked to

dowd saying it's not the president who's going to decide, i am going to decide whether the president agrees to do this interview. do you think that's how this will happen. >> he will do what he wants to do. it's likely he can decide i can go in there and charm these guys and sell them. >> thank you for joining us again tonight. appreciate it. >>> coming up, our panel is here joining us. they will consider everything that's developed in this. some of them taking notes during michael wolff's conversation right here. we'll see what they think the special prosecutor will react to there. >>> also with us congressman adam schiff. that's coming up. ♪ are you reluctant to eat in public because of your denture? try super poligrip® not only does it hold for 12 hours to reduce denture movement, it also helps provide better bite, seals out 74% more food particles, and enhances your denture fit. in fact, 95% of super poligrip® users surveyed believe it makes them feel more confident eating in public. eat, speak, and smile with confidence. try super poligrip® today. we are the tv doctors of a

and john dowd says, i'm the one who decides, he's not doing anything until i decide. and the people around the close orbit are concerned that the president could perjur himself. >> i want to get to another story, steve wynn has resigned as rnc finance chairman following a wall street journal report in which dozens of women told the paper about a decade's long pattern of sexual misconduct by wynn. wynn denied the allegations in a statement writing in part, quote, the idea that i ever assaulted any woman is preposterous. rnc chair released this statement saying, quote, i accepted steve wynn's resignation as republican chair. that stands in contrast to what was said about harvey weinstein when she tweeted, quote, if the dnc truly stands up for women like they say they do, then returning weinstein's dirty money should be a no-brainer. already congresswoman karen handel of georgia said she donated the $2700 contribution she got from wynn to a nonprofit that deals with domestic violence. and "the wall street journal" now reporting that house speaker paul ryan will also dona

fox did get a statement from the president's chief legal advisor, the personal lawyer, john dowd, in which he said, quote, the white house does not comment on communications with the osc out of respect for the osc and its process. the white house is continuing the cooperation with the osc in order to facilitate the earliest possible resolution. you also talk about that book, "fire and fury," mr. wolff is talking about being on network shows but so has trump officials. mr. miller telling cnn the book is grotesque, comments from steve bannon. then there is the issue do you believe this book or not? marc short, the legislative affairs director from the white house, he was on earlier today and said this. >> i read a couple of excerpts published in other papers talk about election night or the president not reading things. all i know these people are not providing good reading material to him. when hei submit memos he reads them thoroughly, puts marks on them and sends them back to me. all i see from the president he is engaged and doing phenomenal job for the american people. reporter: y

. >> do you remember, susan hennessy, one of the president's lawyers, john dowd told axios, quote, the president cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer. he claims that's under article two of the constitution. that would still have to be determined by the courts, but that's the white house position. >> this really is a very, very extreme position. it's essentially akin to saying the president can't violate the law, he's above the law. there are complex legal questions about whether or not you can indict a sitting president. that's a separate question about whether the president can violate the law. ultimately here we probably aren't looking at donald trump being indicted at the conclusion of the mueller investigation, even sort of the most extreme examples. that's pretty unlikely. that doesn't change the fact that there is a serious inquiry into whether or not the president was involved in or directed criminal conduct. ultimately the political consequences is here is going to be what's most important. how are senate republicans and congressional republic

dowd said that he not the president will be deciding whether or not he sits down with mueller, says dowd, i am his hour. >> some people interpret that as political cover. very interesting stuff, thank you. >>> president trump says his visit to the world economic forum in davos, switzerland has been productive so far. president trump met with teresa may and prime minister netanyahu. he said that palestinians must return to peace talks in order to receive u.s. aid money. and mr. trump also met with global business leaders overdinner and urged them to invest in america. >> a lot of people are coming back to the united states, we are seeing tremendous investment. today's been a very exciting day and great for our country. thank you very much. >> and today the british government said president trump will visit the uk sometime later this year. >>> john kerry may be considering a run at president in 2020. an israeli newspaper reports the former secretary of state told palestinian officials he's strongly considering a run for the office. kerry who's now 74 years old had previously said he c

. >> john dowd says this in a statement. quote, "the white house does not comment on communications with the office of special counsel out of respect of the osc. the prospect of the president testifying under oath and answering questions on the fly, that's likely to cause right anxiety for members of his legal team." you will note the effort by fellow republicans to discredit the special prosecutors. here is what senator lyndsey graham said today. >> i think mr. mueller should be able to do his job without being interfered with. we cannot let anybody be above the law. they're offering to help. we have yet to find out if they took up that offer. i think mueller should look at that. >> tough to get a read on lyndsey graham that day. our lead off panel, and our msnbc political analyst, former watergate prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, good evening to you and all happy new year to you. julia ansley, lets talk about this latest one. my question to you is what do we know of the what the mueller team wants to get out of this and

later, another trump attorney john dowd told cnn he's the one who will decide if the president will sit with mueller's team. then came news that president trump ordered the white house counsel to fire mueller back in june citing three reasons that to me seemed awfully thin. they included the fact that mueller once resigned from a trump golf course over a fee dispute. and that mueller most recently worked for the law firm that previously up represented jared kushner. the first hardly seems grounds to charge bias against the former head of the fbi and the second if it suggests any bias would be in favor of the president. this reminded me of the circumstances surrounding the firing of james comey. now, recall that in that instance, the stated reason for the firing as evidenced in a memo written by rod rosenstein was comey's mishandled investigation of hillary's e-mails. quote, as you and i have discussed i cannot talk about the secretary clinton's e-mails and i do not understand the universal judgment that he was mistaken. that was never credible as a reason why trump would fire coemy and

he sent his lawyer out, john dowd to say firing mueller has never been on the table, never and it's a manifestation of the media and kellyanne conway said similar things. i can't imagine that a president would say those things after what he did two months earlier trying to fire mueller. i can't imagine advisors did it. i can't imagine a lawyer to the president bound by ethical rules and so on would say that and not correct the record later on. there is a very severe credibility problem with the president whenever russia comes up and, you know, think about if we knew this stuff before, you've been talking about the devin nunes antics and this memo and so on. if we knew this stuff for the last seven months, it's been a debate trump started with mueller being bias against him and fbi and so on. would have been helpful to know the president tried with bogus three ration nils to fire trump in june and was rebuffed. >> you then mentioned paul ryan and devin nunes. for a president to be held accountable we'll get to in a moment to whether or not he can be held legally accountable, on the pol

. >> laura: i think he could've done better than ty cobb and john dowd. he needed his own dream team and eight he needed to raise the council bar. take you so much. terrific appearance as always. president trump give surprising remarks on dreamers today. lindsey graham is a little too >> laura: president trump today announced that he would be willing to consider citizenship for daca recipients over a period of maybe 10-12 years if he gets legislation with strong border including funding for the wall, as well to an end to chain migration and an end of the visa lottery system. do you hear that, lindsay? the white house clarified that the citizenship offer would only apply to the 800,000 illegal immigrants enrolled in daca and that they would have to meet certain conditions. amnesty supporters welcome to the president's statements. the matter lindsey graham was practically doing the snoopy dance. there he is. he said today with this strong statement by president trump i have never felt better about our chances of finding a solution on immigration. do not try

dowd told cnn he is the one who will decide if the president will sit for an interview with mueller's team and that no decision has been made. and then canome news that president trump ordered mueller's firing back in june citing three reasons that seemed awfully thin. they included the fact that mueller once resigned from a trump golf course over a fee dispud and that mueller most recently worked for the law firm that previously represented jared kushner. the first hardly seems grounds to charge bias against a former head of the fbi and the second, if it suggests any bias, it would seem to be in favor of the president. this reminded me of the circumstances surrounding the firing of james comey. now, recall that in that instance, the stated reason for the firing as evidenced in a memo written by rod rosenstein was comey's mishandled investigation of hillary's e-mails. quote, as you say have asked, i cannot defend the director's handling of the investigation of secretary clinton's e-mails and i do not understand his refusal to accept the nearly universal judgment that he was mistaken.

john dowd said, in al hague style, i'm in charge here. i'll make the decision who testifies or not. but ultimately, of course, as lawyers we know, it's the client mo makes the final decision. so dowd can't overrule his client. if his client has been on record repeatedly saying there's nothing there, i'd love to testify, i think politically they have a hard time. i think they have a harder time legally, but we can talk about that at a later time. >> as a former republican chair of the committee, is there any justifiable reason to release the republican memo but not the democratic memo simultaneously? is there any justification to wait on one other thanks hey, the republicans want theirs out there first? >> i try never to wear my partisan hat from the committee spaces. it's an important mission for the congress to be the legitimate oversight of a vast intelligence collection network of the fire departmeederal gove. so no, i don't. as a matter of fact, in any investigation, you'd always have dissenting views allowed in the back. even if a republican or democratic majority offered a rep

dowd, too, can be in there with the president. as a person who sat in many interviews with clients there's a lot you can do as an attorney to protect your client in such an interview. if, for example, bob mueller asks a question that's ambiguous, you can say, hold on a minute, bob, do you mean this or do you mean that? if your client, in all innocence, gives an answer and has left something out that he knows he has left out intentionally, you can say wait a minute, mr. president. you forgot about this. this is something that happens all the time when clients go in to be interviewed, usually after they've pled guilty. and the role of the attorney is very well prepared by ty cobb. >> let's get to it, solomon. you were kind enough -- we asked you to come up with key questions that if you were a lead investigator or mueller himself would ask the president. were you mad at comey's handling of the clinton e-mail probe? why is that key? >> well, i don't know that it is key. because, based on the public record i've seen, i don't think the

he does have personal lawyers, john dowd, jay s.e.c.lo, they represent donald trump the human being. if they know of wrongdoing, under absolutely no obligation to tell anybody, their loyalty to donald trump the person. don mcgahn is in a very different circumstance. paid by taxpayers. works for the taxpayers. and his obligation is to the executive office of the president, which happens to be occupied today by donald trump, but his obligations are very different from personal lawyers for donald trump. >> glad we got that cleared up. john dean, thank you. jeff toobin stay with us. book passage i read, disclaimers about michael wolff and sourcing. president on air force one talking about characterizing the trump tower meeting. president insisted that meeting in trump tower was purely and simply by russian adoption policy. that's what was discussed period. even tho it was likely if not certain that the "times" had the incriminating e-mail chain. president ordered that no one should let on to the more problematic discussion about hillary clinton. jeff, if this part of the book proves to b

. >> and white house front, john dowd is saying something reasonable i think, doesn't comment on the communications with special counsel out of respect for the process. but white house is continuing full cooperation in order to facilitate the earliest possible resolution. in a land full of very loud aides constantly fighting as we've seen, this book remind everyone or lay bare yet again, lawyers are trying to assert or pretend, your analysis, that there is order and cooperation. >> we don't know if lawyers are speaking for donald trump. i'm not lawyer, never had to testify before grand jury to. i don't believe he's going to testify or not nearly as easily as people are saying. why has he been delegitimizing mueller these past months? setting up situation to tack final report or maybe fire him and balking with things that mueller asks. what in the book rattled trump i don't know, could be steve bannon saying -- for sure hyperbowlic, but donald junior walked the russians up to office. i don't know if he knows or whatever, saying he didn't believe that donald trump didn't know about the

this would be entirely different so that's why john dowd, one of his lawyers said no i will make the decision. we'll see about that. the client here seems to want to speak. he went out there and said i absolutely want to do this so now if he doesn't it certainly looks bad but it's very much an open question. >> it's fascinating the public versus the private president trump. when he's asked publicly he says i'll do it under oath but to your point we hear privately when he's on the phone with friends he rants about the special counsel investigation. cnn has done some fabulous reporting. rod rosen stein who's in charge of bob mueller and who has repeatedly said he thinks mueller is doing a good job so the anger from the president and a lot of the people saying please fire them all and the president saying i'll do it. >> they don't know when he's going to be angry about what. but to jeff's point, the deposition being like any other, it's one thing to lie about real estate deals and to come back and say we got you 30 times in one deposition, this time, legal consequences for this, he woul

also worth noting that john dowd, who is the president's personal attorney, earlier today put out this statement, essentially saying that the legal team had been the most transparent in history, had turned over some 20,000 documents and 20 white house officials had sat for interviews with the special counsel. so, really trying to make the case that, look, they are cooperating. they want to see this investigation conclude as quickly as possible. >> kristen, they're cooperating. if not they get subpoenaed. it's not like they woke up and said how can i help out mueller today. >> i do think their approach to this -- and it is a significant one, because remember before the president got his legal team together, he was almost on a daily basis lashing out at the investigation, the russia probe, calling it a hoax. there is still some of that. but his legal team and the approach that they have taken is let's dial back some of that aggression and let's just focus on getting the special counsel whatever documents, whatever interviews they're asking for, nicolle. >> jeremy bash, it does amount to

he does have personal lawyers, john dowd, jay sekulow, they represent donald trump the human being. if they know of wrongdoing, under absolutely no obligation to tell anybody, their loyalty to donald trump the person. don mcgahn is in a very different circumstance. paid by taxpayers. works for the taxpayers. and his obligation is to the executive office of the president, which happens to be occupied today by donald trump, but his obligations are very different from personal lawyers for donald trump. >> glad we got that cleared up. john dean, thank you. jeff toobin stay with us. book passage i read, disclaimers about michael wolff and sourcing. president on air force one talking about characterizing the trump tower meeting. president insisted that meeting in trump tower was purely and simply by russian adoption policy. that's what was discussed period. even though it was likely if not certain that the "times" had the incriminating e-mail chain. it was quite possible they knew they had this e-mail chain. president ordered that no one should let on to the more problematic discussion ab

john dowd, his chief outside attorney, in a statement to fox news said "the white house does not comment on communications with the osc out of respect for the osc and its process. the white house is continuing its full cooperation with the osc in order to facilitate the earliest possible resolution. over the weekend at camp david, the president did re-affirm something that he said months ago, that he would be willing to talk with robert mueller, but he again asserted his innocence in all of this saying there was no collusion, no crime. shep? >> shepard: john, the president is travelling to nashville with one of his top republican critics, senator bob corker of tennessee. senator corker once called the white house an adult day care center and said that the president is utterly untruthful. the president gave the senator the nickname little bob corker and said he couldn't get elected dog catcher. the president and his team continuing to push back against the controversial new back from michael wolff which portrays the president unfit for office. top members of the trump administration makin