mueller. the special counsel overseeing the russia investigation. the president ultimately backed down, though, after the white house counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the directive. this west wing confrontation marks the first time mr. trump is known to have fired -- excuse me, the first time mr. trump is known to have tried to fire the special counsel, which makes me think were there other times he tried and failed to fire the special counsel? this confrontation marks the first time he was known to have fired the special counsel. at this time you're asking yourself, okay, the president is being investigated for obstruction of justice by robert mueller, who he didn't succeed in firing. does robert mueller know about this incident when the president tried but didn't succeed in firing him? does robert mueller know about this episode? according to the "times," yes. mr. mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and senior official

what is mueller looking at? why is mueller focusing on certain issues rather than others? and in the process of that, we kick up different things. we're just trying to follow the facts and understand as much as we can about this presidency. >> michael schmidt, good work tonight. you know you're always welcome on this broadcast, michael schmidt, co-author of the "new york times" story. eli stokels, kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the boston herald, and gerald bash, also former counsel to house intel. kimberly, as both lawyer and journalist and a unique dual role in this conversation, how big is this? >> this is very big. i mean, this is an important piece in what we've been seeing over time which looks to be a concerted effort by this president to push back or stop efforts to investigate what is going on in the russia investigation. we saw first the pressure on james comey to get him to publicly say there was no investigation, then the firing of comey, then the pressure on other officials including members of congress, to message the frustration about this in

mueller is way ahead of us. he knows a heck of a lot more than we do, but i think there is a lot of road ahead of us. >> two terrific guests. thank you, gentlemen, for adding so much to our conversation, frank figliuzzi and chuck rosenberg, appreciate it very much. more to come when "the 11th hour" continues. in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. with the fastest retinol formula available. it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. one week? that definitely works! rapid wrinkle repair®. and for dark spots, rapid tone repair. neutrogena®. see what's possible. hi, i'm the internet! you knoarmless bowling.lt? you got this, jimmy! you know what's easy? building your website with godaddy. pick a domain name. choose a design. you can build a website in under an hour. now that's a strike! get your domain today and get a free trial of gocentral. build a better website in under an hour. i love you. jimmy's gotten used to his whole yup, he's gone

did the president say he wanted to fire robert mueller? >> well, i have no inside information regarding what he did or didn't say. that wasn't part of my portfolio while i was in the white house. >> you never heard him say that he wanted to fire robert mueller? >> no. and i couldn't talk about it even if i d. so let's move on from that. >> hang on. i just want to get to this quickly and then get to a bigger issue because i think it is important. any knowledge did you ever he ever hear that he threatened to quit to stop the president from firing robert mueller. >> i wouldn't be able to do it under my obligations anyway. >> have you testified to special counsel? we have heard eight lawyers, eight people have? >> again, i wouldn't be sitting here today if i had been interviewed. so the answer to that is no as well because of my ethical obligations having left the white house recently. >> good. now, that we have that behind us, what is your take on the reporting that cnn has confirmed that the president said he wanted to fire robert muler and

mueller. the president ultimately backed down, though, after the white house counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the directive. this west wing confrontation marks the first time mr. trump is known to have fired -- excuse me, the first time mr. trump has known to have tried to fire the special counsel, which makes me think were there other times he tried and failed to fire the special counsel? this confrontation marks the first time he was known to have tried to fire the special counsel. you're saying okay, the president is being investigated for obstruction of justice by robert mueller who he didn't succeed in firing. does robert mueller know about this incident when the president tried but didn't succeed in firing him? does robert mueller know about this episode? according to the times, yes. mr. mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and senior officials in his inquiry into whether the president obstructed justice. remarkab r

the people for saving mueller are no longer for saving mueller. any clues as to why that's the case? >> i mean, i think at this point, one of the things that's sort of baffling, sort of take another step back and look at is the fact that donald trump should by now have learned the lesson that firing someone isn't going to end this investigation. it's not going to end the investigation. >> it could have opened up a new one. >> exactly. >> it could have been the firing of yates, firing of comey, the lackadaisical firing. the firings are all flash points where you bring everyone into the white house and interrogate them. >> exactly. all it has done so far is take it up a notch in terms of the importance and intensity. so, i think that at this point, i think one of the things that was very revealing about the "times" piece yesterday, it seems as though ty cobb has put a lid on donald trump's emotions about the investigation. this thing is wrapping up soon, chill out, we're going to get through this, right. that seems to have worked. donald trump has b

mueller left the club over that. the second reason was jared kushner was using lawyers at a washington law firm where bob mueller was a partner. the third reason, the potential conflict the president used as rationale for wanting to fire mueller was mueller had been interviewed to be the fbi director under trump the day before he was named special counsel. so those were the reasons that the president had told don mcgann he wanted him to direct the justice department to fire mueller. mcgann disagreed with that and threatened to resigned. our crack research team has gone back and said since august, the president, the white house and aides have denied eight times that the president ever considered or contemplating firing mcgann. it's very interesting today to see trump calling this fake news. we'll see what the white house has to say later today. >> the president himself has said that on camera. before you go, i thought it was fascinating or very telling what ty cobb said last night and gave us in response to all this.

mueller. what do you think about the possibility how would that work if you would to remove rosenstein? >> you want me to answer that question. >> please, thanks. >> i think that would have similar political ramifications. rob rosen sign is a career respected deputy attorney general. he's been a u.s. attorney in both republican and democratic administrations. to remove him in that scenario without any just cause i think would cause a lot of alarm and panic. i don't know that it would be any better than firing robert mueller because it would suggest you're trying to elevate someone who obviously might be more sympathetic to your views in overseeing the investigation. so i think that too would be a disaster for president trump. >> swen, talk about the mood in the white house with respect to this investigation because we know the president's obsessed with it. he watches a channel that talks about these sort of conspiracy theories. we know he's been railing against mueller and sessions publicly an

the probe, but recall that this was the time that mueller was -- it was publicly reported that mueller was directly focused on trump in the investigation. he was actually investigating possible obstruction of justice as part of his broad russia investigation. i think the timing is quite interesting and despite mcgahn pushing back and not ultimately following through on what the president wanted clearly shows the president's intent to get rid of mueller and concern possibly about what mueller was doing. robert: that question of intent hovers over all of this. what's next for the white house counsel, don mcgahn, confidante of the president. should we be expecting him to be asked to testify on capitol hill? carol: i don't know if that testimony is the central point. there may be people who want to ask him that exact thing but what's interesting is what he already told special counsel bob mueller. we there were when we saw him enter the special counsel's office for his interview and it strikes me that what he's already told the federal investigators looms large over the president as he fac

mueller is way ahead of us. he knows a heck of a lot more than we do, but i think there is a lot of road ahead of us. >> two terrific guests. thank you, gentlemen, for adding so much to our conversation, frank fagliuzzi. more to come when "the 11th hour" continues. will bring. but our comprehensive approach to financial planning can help make sure you're prepared for what's expected and even what's not. and that kind of financial confidence can help you sleep better at night. with the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. (vo)just one touch.ith with fancy feast creamy delights, she can have just the right touch of real milk. easily digestible, it makes her favorite entrées even more delightful. fancy feast creamy delights. love is in the details. the winter of '77.uring i first met james in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru. >>> you know, loya

because he thought mueller would be fair. this puts the white house once again scrambling to control the narrative, and trump isn't making it easy for them. >> what does if say that the president was willing to fire mueller after all that came out from the firing of comey? >> it shows somebody who is impatient with the process, if he feels he's being held to a certain standard, he doesn't want to be put under scrutiny, he says i don't like this process, i want to change it, i want to do something different. he's always been an incredibly impatient man, whether on the campaign trail, whether running his companies, whether firing people on "the apprentice." it shows how when things don't go his way, he's very willing to question the entire underlying system and say, hey, let's change it, let's shake up the narrative and make this a better process for me. >> i'm curious, alexi, with regard to political fallout, does the mueller story this week, does that at all change the narrative for the president politically speaking? will re

we know that mueller knows this. mueller has known this for some time because of interviews with white house staffers. how does that figure into his thinking and to your point now. we saw example of this what you're talking about yesterday. the president wasn't when asked about what he asked andy mccabe, the acting fbi director at the time in the oval office about whom he voted for in the election which is inappropriate. you're not supposed to talk to people about politics. that's why bob mueller didn't talk to the attorneys that he hired about whom they supported politically. you're not supposed to. however, the president said when asked. i don't think i asked him that. i don't remember. if i did it's not really that important. you can say that to the media. you can say that and it's up to us to be able to check it. the white house has not backed off the suggestion he said that to andy mccabe. mccabe hasn't said it didn't happen. if you say that in front of these investigators, you expose yourself to questions that

president why did you fire robert mueller? why did you want to fire robert mueller? >> fake news, folks. "new york times" fake story. >> in the nixon era that's what they called a nondenial denial. joining us with his first reaction to the public reaction is the author of the best selling book in the world right now, michael wolff, the author of the "new york times" best-seller "fire and fury," inside the trump white house. thank you for coming back. >> thank you for having me. >> your book is filled with versions of the president complaining about the special prosecutor, making references to wanting to fire the special prosecutor. the special prosecutor has talked to reince priebus, the special prosecutor is going to talk to steve bannon, who you spent a lot of time talking to. the special prosecutor has been talking to many of your sources in this book. has the special prosecutor reached out to you to talk to you about either the firing of the special prosecutor or any other elements of this story? >> he has not. >> and if the special prosecutor does want to interv

robert mueller was not fired, obviously. so in and of itself the act isn't grounds for obstruction or anything else. but could the intent, how does the intent tell you about the president's mind-set and might that seep in other parts of the investigation? >> well, first of all, you don't have to succeed in obstructing justice to obstruct justice. that he didn't ultimately fire mueller doesn't mean anything. in and of itself, it is a conclusive piece of evidence. it is one more piece in the puzzle as we try to discern what the president's motives, intent was. that is actually quite important because he does have the legal authority to fire government officials. and in this case it would be indirect. you would have to pressure somebody at doj to do it. but he can't do it corruptly. you would have to look at intent to see if he was trying to prevent himself from being further investigated. he certainly told us that was his intent in firing mueller -- comey. so this fits with that. he said i haven't even given getting rid of mue

we got to fire mueller. how can we fire mueller? get rid of this guy. it was just the stuff that comes out of president's mouth. >> in that sense you're describing a workplace in which they don't take the guy saying this stuff seriously to the point where they have to execute it but if he pushes it up to an order then they have to issue threats to resign? >> yes. nobody wants to be there. the new york times curiously makes this sound normal. even if it makes it sound like there's a man that's thought through something and made a decision. there are no decisions here. it's just blather. when does blather -- of course blather can become a decision. the comey firing, nobody expected the comey firing to happen and then it happened because he did it on his own. he just went rogue and suddenly it happened. i believe expects a and continues to expect mueller fired. how that happens is a kind of a three dimensional thing. every day he's firing mueller. >> it's making that case for his lawyers to try to make that presentation of the character. the prosecutors an

>> i have confidence in mueller. i have questions about others within the fbi and the doj, especially what's come out in the texts, especially what it's been based on. i think it's the responsibility -- we have an intel committee. that's raced a great deal of question. >> is there a red line the president could cross with you in his treatment of bob mueller? >> the president and his team have fully cooperated. you're making hypotheticals. right now -- >> it's not a hypothetical. we have records that he ordered to do it and don mcgann threatened to quit if asked to carry out the order. >> this is a place i have not been a part of. i have not heard that. the only thing i have seen is cooperation is where we intend to end up. >> would you open if there's bill that protects -- you know, there's a couple of bills in the senate, one would be having a three-judge panel review a decision if the president did fire mueller to see if it was done on fairgrounds. would you be open if that bill is attached to the budget bill, woul

if he fired mueller without cause. i mean, mueller's doing a good job. i have confidence in him to get to the bottom of all things russia. and don mcgahn, in the story is true in "the new york times" did the right thing. good news is the president listened. i know this, mueller should look at it. i have complete confidence in mr. mueller. when he found two fbi agents with a bias against president trump, he fired them. all this stuff about the fbi and doj having a bias against trump and for clinton needs to be looked at. i have never believed it affected mr. mueller. i'll do whatever it takes to make sure mr. mueller can do his job. we're a rule of law nation before president trump. we're going to be a rule of law nation after president trump. i haven't yet seen any evidence of collusion between mr. trump and the russians. the investigation needs to go forward without interference. and i believe it will. >> you believe the stories about mcgahn? about president trump? >> i don't know. i believe it's something that mueller should look at. we're not just goi

he was saying fire mueller the time. i want to fire mueller all the time. michael wolff said it was like wallpaper so people did not take it seriously and it might, in the president's mind, have never been a specific order. and since it wasn't carried out he may not believe he issued the order. >> apparently don mcgahn took it seriously and was willing to resign rather than carry it out. i wouldn't describe this as wallpaper based on what the "new york times" the "the washington post" and others have reported. what leaps out at me about this disclosure, this new report, is how much in common it has with the comey situation. with the firing of comey what the president had at his disposal were memos from rod rosenstein and from jeff sessions that provided a pretext, another explanation to give to the public for why comey was being fired. that is, he treated hillary clinton unfairly. now that is obviously not very plausible and the one who made it clear that was not the real motivation was the president himself. but similarly here with the attempt to fire bob

mueller was appointed. we see why the president has been so frustrated with the investigation and his attorney general. who he pressured publicly to step down. and wouldn't have picked him -- >> the central role don mcgahn layed through the this sfwl restraining the president of the united states. what an extraordinary discussion we're having here. talking about the seen your leadership of a presidency. which is spending its type trying to restrain the basic instincts of the president of the united states day after day. trying to restrain involve breaking the law. that's what this investigation, that's what the last year has been about. she talked earlier about trump being trump. in this instance. part of what the whole mueller investigation is about is trump being trump. the way he conducts his business. the way that he conducted his campaign. the way he has responded to these investigations. we have never had anything quite like this. where the white house staff, those who are in daily kalkt with the pres

so i'm not sure just what mueller -- director mueller is going to find, but it's pretty clear to me that, you know, he is looking, he may be looking at obstruction. i mean, if the president, as he has stated, that he has done nothing wrong, i don't understand why he seems to want to interfere with this process. >> well, what does that say to you if, indeed, the president was trying to interfere if it's not the firing of james comey, then the potential firing of bob mueller? does that say to you or raise some kour curiosities about what does the the president have to hide if there are all these reported attempts to obscure the investigation? >> well, first, i thought it was a mistake to fire director comey the way -- at least the way it was done was terrible. and it's very hard for me to try to explain and i'm not going to explain the president's apparent contradictions. on the one hand, he says he's done nothing wrong. on the other, he seems to want to interfere with the investigation to the extent that he's talked about, you know, firing mueller and there has been contributions and i'm

mueller. >> we will eventually -- when the movie is made of this, when you write the best selling book about this somewhere down the road, my friend, we will learn more about the sourcing of the stories and the strategy behind the sourcing of the stories why we're learning about it in january if it was in june, why there are four sources who are willing to talk to the times about this, the kind of worries the individual white house staff have about their own liability on these things. in hindsight this will become clear but right now we're living through it minute by minute trying to understand how serious this stuff is. >> if one witness tells the special counsel something, that might not leak out. but this is a story that more than one witness has information about. so you have, you know, reince priebus, former white house chief of staff, he was chief of staff at the time this was happening so he would know this was happening. he has spoken to the special prosecutor, don mcgahn has spoke --

we have no idea what mueller knows. what mueller knows is a great deal more than any of us. for the president so say, look there has been no collusion, therefore, i'm cleared. that pre supposes that mueller has actually reached that conclusion and he does not. think about an examination done in a jigsaw puzzle of sorts. you have to have enough pieces in play to understand what the ultimate image will be. when you have the president of the united states looking to be interviewed by mueller and mueller would like to interview him. he is trying to put in the remaining pieces. trump has no idea. he is probably trying to get ahead of it in his media-related commentary. he like everybody else is thinking what do you know or can i avoid saying? >> jim, i need to get this in. sorry. we will run out of time. cnn is also reporting mueller's team has interviewed attorney general jeff sessions and former director james comey. what do we know about that? >> well, look at this. jeff sessions was just last week. comey was the end of last year. it's natural that the special counsel would sp

remember, mueller has known about this for weeks. the real question is not obstruction because at this point, it seems clear that there was an attempt. why? let's keep our eye on that. why was trump willing to go by these extreme lengths to destroy and demolish the russia investigation. that's something he didoes not want mull tore find out and mueller probably does. >> matthew i'll take you back to the beat and repeat for the benefit afterwards the number of defiles about attempts to fire mueller. >> does the president commit to not firing robert mueller? >> the president has not even discussed that. the president is not discussing firing bob mueller. we are cooperating with -- he is not even discussed not -- he's not discussed firing bob mueller. >> is he going to rule out once and for all firing robert mueller. >> i'll address the second question first. the president said last week, i believe last week and several times before there is no intention or plan to make any changes in regards to the special counsel. >> is he setting the

mueller. and bannon ranting against the idea of what the president thinks he can accomplish by firing mueller. >> we will eventually -- when the movie is made of this, when you write the best selling book about this somewhere down the road, my friend, we will learn more about the sourcing of the stories and the strategy behind the sourcing of the stories why we're learning about it in january if it was in june, why there are four sources who are willing to talk to the times about this, the kind of worries the individual white house staff have about their own liability on these things. in hindsight this will become clear but right now we're living through it minute by minute trying to understand how serious this stuff is. >> if one witness tells the special counsel something, that might not leak out. but this is a story that more than one witness has information about. so you have, you know, reince priebus, former white house chief of staff, he was chief of staff at the time this was happening

>> -- mueller? >> no, there's no conversation about that whatsoever in the white house. >> that highlight reel goes to why the president's legal team and why people inside the white house are so skittish about the idea of the president sitting down and saying what he knows under oath to the special counsel's office. it's one thing for the president to come out in front of the cameras here in davos and call the story fake news. it's quite another to do that if he special counsel's office. he could open himself up to charges of perjury if he gives false statements to the special counsel's office. that's perhaps one of the biggest reasons why his legal team is so worried about him going through with his words he expressed the other day and saying he would sit down with the special counsel's office, wolf. >> jim acosta, thank you very much. coming up, much more on the reaction on the blockbuster news that the president tried to fire robert mueller. and could a pair of figure skaters ratchet down the ten

. >> are you going to talk to mueller? >> i'm look forward to it, actually. there's been no collusion, whatsoever. there's no obstruction whatsoever. and i'm looking forward to it. i do worry when i look at all of the things that you people don't report about it, with what's happening, if you take a look at, you know, the five months worth of missing texts, that's a lot of missing texts. and as i said yesterday, that's prime time. so you just got to look at that and say what's going on? you do look at certain texts where they talk about insurance policies or insurance, where they say the kinds of things they're saying, you got to be concerned. but i would love to do that, as soon as possible. good luck, everybody. so here's the story. >> do you have a date set? >> i don't know, i guess they're talking about two or three weeks, but i would love to do it. like i say, subject to my lawyers and all of that, but i would love to. >> again, don't under estimate donald trump. you have been in those things, we call them scrums some

we know mueller. do we know anything more about the president speaking to mueller's team. >> we don't, in terms of how the internal negotiations are going between the president's legal team and robert mueller's team. what we have reported and do still believe is the case for fr our sources is that there is a real split among people who have influence with the president on whether or not this is a good idea. i've talked to several people who have told me that they have made it clear to him and those around him that it would be horrible for him to do -- to just sit down with robert muchlt eller in any way, shape or form for a whole host of reasons. one, because they think that it would be a perjury trap for him and also because the president and a whole other list of reasons. but there are those who think that he should try to cooperate. and one of those people who are suggesting that maybe it's a good idea, we're told, is the president himself, who thinks, you know what? i've done hundreds of depositio

my point, if he wanted to fire mueller, he would have just sacked mcgahn and fired mueller. i'm curious to know what else happened around this situation that the president didn't go through with it -- >> he wanted to give an order on the ban of immigrants. sally yates refused. it did not go through. so that doesn't mean just because he didn't -- it didn't happen, that he didn't try to do it. his intent was to do it. >> i'm not disputing the reporting. but he has actually gone through with other things. i mean, he obviously fired comey. there have been moments where he did things and there have been moments where he didn't do things. i think the interplay there is important context for this conversation tonight. >> robbie? >> he had -- comey, he had someone at the justice department as a sort of fig leaf and an excuse to do it, right? the rosenstein memo. i think he was probably hoping he would get the same thing here where mcgahn would go through it and he could say oh, my white house counsel did it. he said it was fine. >> go ahead, robbie. i know you want to weigh in on th

so there are sort of two big buckets mueller is looking at. one of them is obstruction, did the president try to obstruct the russia investigation. the other one is russian meddling in the election. in terms of the first bucket, comey is the central player in that. >> michael, did we lose you? >> i'm still here. can you hear me? >> let's talk about obstruction. today we have the news, first reported by axios, not confirmed by nbc news, but this idea that the white house, jeff sessions, are pressuring christopher wray, the now fbi director, to remove people inside the fbi. problems with some of that reporting, because andrew mccabe can't be fired. he is a career agent so he just can't be fired willy-nilly. there's got to be a cause there. but the "washington post" is confirming at least a portion of it saying that it does seem like this administration is trying to put pressure on the fbi director. we have seen it frankly publicly, michael, with the president's tweets saying andrew mccabe shouldn't be there. how much is that going to factor into

mueller first. tom, six months ago when the president was supposedly thinking about firing mueller, here was the reaction from some republican senators. >> any effort to go after mueller could be the beginning of the end of the trump presidency. >> i think it would be as explosive as anything i can think single act that the president might take. >> we would certainly advise that step not to be taken. i think this is a man who many believe on both sides of the aisle has tremendous integrity and will do his work in a very diligent way. >> we have not had the same sort of reaction from republican side of the aisle. it's been much more muted saying, well, look, it didn't happen and we'll worry about it if it does. you heard leader mccarthy there claiming he has confidence in mueller but -- >> well, i think two things. one was, i was here for the saturday night massacre and the nixon white house thought that was going to unleash their ability to deal with what was going on and it was another nail in the

to talk to mueller? >> i'm looking forward to it, actually. >> you want to. >> just so you understand, there's been no collusion whatsoever. there's no obstruction whatsoever. >> you have a date set, mr. president? >> i don't know. no. i guess you're talking about two, three weeks. i would love to do it. >> in person? >> i have to say, subject to my lawyers and all that but i'd love to do it. >> would you do it under oath, mr. president? >> like hillary -- who said that? >> would you do it under oath? >> you did say it. you say a lot. did hillary do it under oath? i think you have an idea. wait, do you not have an idea? you dou-u really don't have ani? i'll give you an idea -- >> wyou would? >> she didn't do it under oath. if you didn't know about hillary, you're not much of a reporter. >> are you going -- >> say it? >> you would do it under oath? >> i would do it under oath. >> you think robert mueller will be fair to you in this larger investigation? >> we're going to find out. we're going to find out.

i don't know where team mueller is on this. it would seem to me that at some point they would want to have a face-to-face interview with the president. trump's team talks about ronald reagan and what happened during iran contra, and ronald reagan gave written answers to questions during iran contra. so they clearly would like that to happen. i don't know if that's enough for mueller. >> jeffrey toobin, "the washington post" is reporting that mueller wants to question the president in the coming weeks, specifically about the firings of michael flynn, his former national security adviser, around former fbi director james comey. what does that tell you? >> well, that to me has always been the heart of the case. even more than collusion. collusion is not a crime. the president's supporters have been pointing that out from day one. there are possibly crimes associated with involvement between the trump campaign and russia. but it is difficult to shoehorn that behavior, whatever it might be, into the criminal horn. however, obstructi

why doesn't the president just fire mueller. here is what sarah sanders said. >> i think we all know what everybody in this room would do if the president did that. i don't think that's helpful to the process. >> oh, my, bianna, you're a journalist. she's saying part of the reason is because of how you guys, the press, would respond. >> we've been talking about this and speculating for months now as to whether he would or wouldn't fire mueller. i think a lot of people were surprised by hearing that mueller interviewed sessions and will be potentially interviewing the president in the next few weeks, how far along mueller has gone in this investigation and how many people he has actually interviewed, he and his prosecutors, over the past few months which maybe gives you a sense that mueller possibly thinks he's on borrowed time and wants to conclud ts sooner rather than later. >> the way, she may not be wrong. if the president did do it, there would be a reaction, but that's not the reason. >> she's certainly right there would be

think about what mueller did. when i turned out the political opinions of these with particular political agents were expose in the texts, again, they're humans. they have opinions. what did mueller do? he immediately took they will off the investigation. which is probably exactly the right thing to do. but wolf, this is all part. and the famous house memo is just the latest and most dangerous installment of trying to save this president's bacon by damaging and throwing mouth a storied institutions. >> they are probe yg five months of text messages between those twoe individuals apparently have gone missing. do you have confidence the fbi ends up being fully transparent? >> i don't know. i have no way of knowing. we've seen a lot of these text messages. the fbi has produced a lot of text messages would indicate they're not trying to hide anything. it is hard to imagine. these people had opinions. they expressed them to each other. there's no scandal there. of course the right wing and republicans will do their bes

and now we know he tried to get robert mueller fired. this is a pattern. >> the fact that the president wanted so badly to get rid of jeff sessions and why? because jeff sessions recused himself. and why did that bother the president? because it led to the appointment of bob mueller. >> msnbc's kristen welker has more on why the white house is fighting back on the reports which overshadowed the president's trip to davos. >> reporter: in davos, president trump lashing out at reports he ordered the firing of special counsel robert mueller last june. >> fake news, folks, fake news. >> reporter: a source with firsthand knowledge of the matter tells nbc news mr. trump ultimately backed down when his white house counsel, don mcgahn, threatened to quit over it, saying the move would be catastrophic. the news first reported by "the new york times" said it all happened amid the first reports mueller was looking into a possible obstruction case. the white house on defense. >> we know that the president is not considering firing mueller. we want to

mueller made also clear it is seeking a sit down. pamela brown and gloria borger join us now. >> sources tell my colleague and i that special counsel robert mueller has made it clear that he wants to do a sit-down interview with the president. you heard the president say, he would be more than happy to sit down with robert mueller, but the lawyers for the president are in ongoing negotiations. and sources tell us that an in-person interview would be a last resort. we are told robert mueller has made clear any of the topics he would like to discuss. under the umbrella of the firing of james comey. and national security adviser michael flynn. they also want to learn about what they told james comey when he allegedly asked them -- and also another topic we are told by sources that robert mueller is interested in is when the president reached out to the intelligence chiefs of various agencies asking them reportedly to intervene. we reported that mueller has interviewed three of the top intelligence officials so far. these are things that

president, did you seek to fire robert mueller. >> fake news, folks. >> the plot to fire mueller. >> typical "new york times" fake stories. >> tonight new concerns the threat to the special counsel hasn't passed. and yet, one republican is backing off his plan to protect robert mueller and what all this means for the russia investigation. >> i haven't given it any thought. >> then. >> yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for conflict. does he not have the right to raise those questions. >> can trump tv sustain the president through his latest crisis. >> the president says it's fake news. what do you think? do you even care? >> the finance chief for the republican party faces new allegations of sexual

trump has faced many lawyers but none quite like mueller. chris hayes who has done a few russian interviews of his own, is here to talk about potential cross-examination and what's next in the probe. at social med. she buys stocks in companies that "stand for something." you like her. she's always up on the latest trends. she got in early on the whole goat yoga thing. and her sunsets are always #nofilter. you like her. but you'd like her better if you made more money than she does. don't get mad at @just_marea. get eátrade. it happens when reality exceeds expectations. sail with the #1 cruise line in alaska, princess cruises, come back new. (gasp) (singsong) budget meeting! sweet. if you compare last quarter to this quarter... various: mmm. it's no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream. with the creamy taste of philly, i no wondering, "what if?" uncertainties of hep c. i let go of all those feelings. because i am cured with harvoni. harvoni is a revolutionary treatment f

bob mueller knows they're the known unknowns. let's look at one of the places where they dug themselves a hole in terms of the veracity, the truthfulness, if you will, of those comments, was around what was behind the decision to fire jim comey. let's watch some sessions testimony. >> specifically, what was your designated role in the decision to fire director comey? >> it is -- it's a manner that i can share some information about because the president, himself, has talked about it and revealed that letter. he asked that deputy rosenstein and i make our recommendations in writing. we prepared those recommendations and submitted it to the president. senator feinstein, i don't think it's been fully understood the significance of the error that mr. comey made on the clinton matter. >> so, chuck rosenberg, that would be a fine and good thing to say under oath if it were true, but we know from donald trump's interview with lester holt that he fired jim comey because he didn't like the way the russia investigation was going. what does

just as the trump firing let to mueller and the mueller firing would lead to somebody else. it's a practical matter for him to shut down the investigation. >> woodruff: the white house counsel saying i'm going to quit if you do this, other threats to resign from other up in justice as we know, there's a lot of clear disagreement, turmoil. what does all that say to you? >> it suggests it's very hard to work for president trump. chris ray, the f.b.i. director, this week threat topped resign. stories in the past about the attorney general and the deputy attorney general. the president is mercurial and engages in self-destructive actions and actions that violate norms that make it extremely difficult for people to work with him and the only leaf rang they have is to resign or threaten to resign. every instance so far the president's backed down and there's actually a somewhat happy story here in that despite the extraordinary attacks by the president, despite his attempts to impede the independence of the justice department and the f.b.i., they seem to have resisted so far. the

and i think bob mueller will give them a lot of credit. first of all, bob mueller and his team know that jim comey is a career professional, a straight shooter, a person with honesty and integrity that's informed everything he's ever done in his life. secondly, if they don't have those views of him, he actually wrote down what happened and i think that's going to carry a lot of weight with the special counsel. >> chuck, i saw you today with nicolle wallace at 4:00 eastern time, and you were talking about perhaps one or both of the major print stories today that revealed both sessions and copy had been interviewed. and you referred to it in a curious manner. you said this is a revelation more than it is a development. can you explain that and have i quoted you correctly? >> you did, and i hope i can. what i meant, brian, was there was nothing surprising about it. it's not a development that we shouldn't have anticipated. i meant by revelation that now we've learned it, too. jim comey, as i understand it, was interviewed at least several mon

on whatever timeframe mule certifica mueller is working on. no one knows except mueller what the timeframe is. >>> let's talk about the president in davos. he rubbed shoulders with the world's economic elite. he opened the door to some version of the tpp. saying america is open for business. what are your thoughts on the trip? >> i'm glad that the president stood up and said that he was open to reengaging with tpp. i thought it was a strategic blunder to pull out of that agreement. basically that agreement was designed to help the united states in our partners in the pacific rim position ourselves against china. we want to set the rules, write the rules and set the standards of trade, rather than the other way around. we want to protect the american workers. i'm glad the president has come around on that a bit. on the rest of davos, i think the president went out there and made a chamber of commerce speech. he went up there and sold america, regulatory reform, tax reform. and america is open for business, i thought that was a good message. it

i think the mueller investigation ought to go forward. i also think we ought to get to the bottom of what could be corruption in the department of justice and the fbi. we do not want the federal government spying on american citizens with warrantless wiretaps. so both issues have to be addressed. but i think the president came to the right decision on that. >> so you believe the story? >> i don't know. there have been so many stories on this particular quote/unquote russia investigation, i don't know what to believe anymore. we'll see. >> will this story in particular has sources, cnn confirmed it, fox news confirmed it, does that give you some confidence it may be true? >> well, perhaps. i mean, i'm inclined to believe those sources, but by the same token, a number of corrections brought forth by member of the mainstream media on the russian story already, every network, every newspaper had to issue corrections and we can go through them. i don't think it is necessary. >> any correction on any story to you makes you doubt the totality of

president, did you seek to fire robert mueller. >> fake news, folks. >> the plot to fire mueller. >> typical "new york times" fake stories. >> tonight new concerns the threat to the special counsel hasn't passed. and yet, one republican is backing off his plan to protect robert mueller and what all this means for the russia investigation. >> i haven't given it any thought. >> then. >> yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for conflict. does he not have the right to raise those questions. >> can trump tv sustain the president through his latest crisis. >> the president says it's fake news. what do you think? do you even care? >> the finance chief for the republican party faces new allegations of sexual misconduct. >> steve has always got advice. >> when all-in starts right now. >> his advice i like to listen to. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the president just landed back in washington from his trip to davos. he returns to yet more questions about his actions toward special counsel robert mueller's investigation. the president was attending the

remember, mueller has known about this for weeks. the real question is not obstruction because at this point, it seems clear that there was an attempt. why? let's keep our eye on that. why was trump willing to go by these extreme lengths to destroy and demolish the russia investigation. that's something he does not want mull tore find out and mueller probably does. >> matthew i'll take you back to the beat and repeat for the benefit afterwards the number of defiles about attempts to fire mueller. >> does the president commit to not firing robert mueller? >> the president has not even discussed that. the president is not discussing firing bob mueller. we are cooperating with -- he is not even discussed not -- he's not discussed firing bob mueller. >> is he going to rule out once and for all firing robert mueller. >> i'll address the second question first. the president said last week, i believe last week and several times before there is no intention or plan to make any changes in regards to the special counsel. >> is he setting the s