pending against michael cohen. that's brent blakely's job out in los angeles. lanny davis was brought in for no purpose other than to effectively put a spin on the facts and the evidence and to be michael cohen's mouthpiece, if you will. and i have a lot of respect for lanny, but that's what he is in this context. on television and otherwise. lanny davis was brought in, people are asking, well, why would they release the tape and what is the strategy. it's clear as day to me. the strategy is for lanny to try to reset the narrative around michael cohen. and one of the ways to do that is to be the provider of information, to provide this tape to cnn tonight, get it out there, and put a spin on it. and that's exactly what he's trying to do. >> but michael, just quickly, how does that help michael cohen with the real problem that he has, which is with the fbi, which is with federal prosecutors in manhattan? federal prosecutors in manhattan don't care a word about what lanny davis has to say. >> well, they don't care ab

michael cohen is not reliable. this is the guy that one of the ways he gotten in trump's world is he did whatever it took to get problems to go away. donald trump is not terribly reliable. the washington post said that he lied more than 3,000 times of his first 266 days in office. simone? >> well, don, this makes a bigger point. if we can't believe the president and his allies and his family about something as small or as big depending on how you look at it as a meeting, what can we believe them about? >> what the president said matters and who the president matters. we have found that none of these folks are credible. we can't believe anything that's being said. for instance, when the president said he's giving $12 billion bail out quote on quote to farmers and he's going to do something about this, can we believe him? the president says i did not discuss x, y, and z, can we believe him? we can't believe the president of the united states. >> the only person who have said anything about this under oath that we kno

case against michael cohen. michael cohen has also just done a strange on the record but off camera interview with abc news with their star anchor jeff stephanopoulos in that interview, he vaguely hinted but didn't definitely say he might be thinking of cooperating with prosecutors. michael cohen is still adjusting in this new place in this world. by repositioning himself between trump and investigators. regionally that meant fighting back through the media. at the end of last week michael cohen got his hair freshly shorn and picked out a black suit to wear for his first on-the-record interview. on saturday afternoon, abc news anchor george stephanopoulos entered cohen's suite at the regency hotel where the two men spoke for 45 minutes. the interview was initially supposed to be on camera, but at the advice of mr. cohen's counsel, guy petrillo, the new lawyer due to start this week, quote that. >> stuck to an kaaudio only format. quote, for months, people in his circle told me about the possibility of him sittin

so according to michael cohen's lawyer, michael cohen is not the one who leaked the story. first to cmn nbc news confirming the claim from michael cohen that donald trump knew in advance of the trump tower ming in and in fact, that he approved going ahead with that meeting knowing it was an offer of dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government to help him in his campaign. michael cohen claims that according to this reporting tonight and is willing to discuss that with the special counsel. but that claim is not being leaked by michael cohen. it's being leaked about michael cohen. joining us now is emily jane fox from "vanity fair" who follows the michael cohen story more closely than closely. thank you very much for being with us on short notice. i appreciate you getting on the phone with us. >> of course. >> so let me ask you if i've been reporting in as breaking news as i'm getting pieces of paper across my desk about this. have i said anything that strikes you as wrong or that does not comport with your understanding of the story thus far in. >> no, and i will tell

but i'm concerned about michael cohen. if you spend five minutes with michael cohen you know he's not strong. he's weak. it's odd to say this but when he said he would stand up for the president, i knew from talking with him for less than five minutes that he was sufficiently weak, that he would cave in with respect to any wrongdoing. >> what do you mean by weak, though? do you mean he would tell the truth about his history or he would be intimidated by prosecutors? >> he could be counted onto protect the person who's paying him. very few people who face the prospect of jail stand up. in fact, it's difficult for me to recall any instance over decades of practice where somebody has stood up and taken it -- >> let me press you for a moment, jay. i understand the point you're raising, but if the facts that he provides to the federal investigators are not negative or incriminating to donald trump then it doesn't matter whether he's weak or strong, right? >> well, the prosecutor makes a judgment as to whether the person is tell

that doesn't mean that what michael cohen -- that doesn't corroborate what michael cohen is saying. but to simone's point, it does suggest that there is a lot of mistruth, untruth, that has already happened around that. >> lies. just say lies. i'm going to keep you guys for another segment here, but i just have to say, this is me in the role of rudy giuliani, and i read this, i played this at the top, so he says, gosh almighty, why didn't he tape it? he taped everything else, he's got a hundred tapes, why didn't he tape it, maybe he did, maybe he's got a tape that he erased. did you ever think of that? no. you don't think that he would erase a tape? maybe he would. i don't know. again, if you're saying the meeting never happened, and then you're conceding that he taped the meeting that never happened, what sense does that make? we'll be right back. what will you discover with a lens made by essilor? sharper vision, without limits. days that go from sun up to sun down. a whole world in all its beauty. three innovative technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection.

>> this was the stuff that was seized by michael cohen's office. the feds went in and took stuff from his office. this is one of those things. michael helcohen did this secre two months before the election. they're discussing what would be a second payment to the model. the second payment that would ensure her silence going forward. this was after the nationa national -- this was another payment and a second payment. >> do you we know why michael cohen would be recording donald trump secretly. >> no, that's an interesting question. why would a lawyer be recording a conversation with someone. that could be seized. we know michael cohen had a history recording a lot of different conversations to a lot of different people but why on such a sensitive thing would he secretly do this. was he doing it as a way to have leverage on the president later or was he doing it in a way of protecting himself as a lawyer saying look, i have done the work that i am supposed to do and here is the evidence client telling me that. cohen is under a tricky spot here of al

if michael cohen is the source of this information coming out, then that's very bad for michael cohen's future as a cooperator. if he is the one putting it out there -- it is not just that it's out there. but if he's the one putting it out there, that is going to hurt his ability to be a cooperator because the government isn't going to trust him as easily. there is so many reasons why. however, if it is not coming from him and anyone associated with him, if he's not authorizing this information to come out, but it is coming from trump, giuliani and some weird plot to try and diminish cohen as a cooperator, it doesn't. it will not. in other words, the fact that the information is out there in the world in either does not take away as chuck said, does not take away the fact that the government needs to prove this. we all learn things and we think we know them. the government has to know it in a factual sense, in a provable sense. and the way to do that is through evidence and witnesses are one form of evidence. so they need a witness who can go into court or in an affidavit, whatever form

>> no. >> then why did michael cohen make it -- >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? >> no, i don't know. >> so he denied that and then referenced michael cohen, saying you'll have to ask his attorney michael cohen. so, do you think that this new recording, does it to you show that he did have an affair and he tried to cover it up or that he knew about it? >> i think it is certainly circumstantial evidence donald trump knew about each of these payments and knew what was going on in the months prior to the election day of what payments were being made and how they were being structured and michael cohen was consulting with him. i don't know how you reconcile this tape, don, with michael cohen's denials and others acting on his behalf when we first filed this case in march, april and may. how many times did we hear michael cohen and people on his behalf claim that the allegations were false and that him and donald trump, that he and donald trump were innoce

all he was doing tonight was really trying to just destroy michael cohen and i think michael cohen would have been better served to have these conversations with the prosecutors. that's in the court of the public opinion. i don't know how that would play out in the courtroom. david, i will give you the last word. the reporting also says there were other in the room. they can do whatever they want with michael cohen. i do think there is some tipping with these stories. all the stories are for the people who's keeping quiet. meaning that we kind of know something abts yout you. >> david, how do you think it is going to play out? >> forecasting down the road. whether it is deputy attorney rosenstein, congress, or the court, will have to decide whether cohen is credible. the issue that jim was saying is that mayor rudy giuliani went on tonight and chum the waters and not really directing attack the under line feedbacks but more so trying to attack michael cohen's credibility. the challenge that he's running up against and i really with what jack was saying that maybe this is not the typical

cohen's job before michael cohen. first, let's get into what this all means. daniel goldman is a former federal prosecutor who worked in the actual office that is investigating cohen, and david corn was of course washington bureau chief for mother jones and an expert on all things russiagate, including leads on the mueller probe farmed out to this federal probe in manhattan. david, when you look at this, when you look at michael cohen's evolution, and when you look at lanny davis, someone you and i have crossed paths with, as a lawyer and a politico, what does it mean to you tonight? >> listen, lanny davis worked for the woman of whom the trump crowd used to shout "lock her up," and they may shout it tonight at that rally he's holding out west. so to bring lanny davis into michael cohen's inner circle, inn inn inner sanctum. if you care about donald trump, you ought to be worried. lanny davis is a political player, a spinmeister who's written books on how to spin, who has an agenda here which is to avenge hillary clin

he's poking michael cohen. michael cohen's lawyer says there might be more tapes out there. we don't know if there's more out there. >> didn't they confirm there are -- >> we know there are more -- >> we just don't know if they're trump and cohen. >> exactly. we don't know if there's more that involves the president. lanny davis suggests that there is more the president would be interested in. we will see. we will see at this point and we will see how michael cohen handles it. what we do know is on the tape that we have now all heard, there is the phrase from michael cohen, all the stuff, all the stuff, indicating there's maybe more than karen mcdougal, the $150,000 the president raised the possibility of paying to cover it. >> john, too, there is some efefr evidence -- the tape isn't the easiest thing to listen to in that the quality isn't great because it was being secretly recorded. there is a pattern here. what do we know about the stormy daniels situation that we know more about than the karen mcdougal one? michael cohen set up an llc, a private company in which he was

would it just be in the hands of michael cohen's legal team, and michael cohen's legal team shared it. or is this -- is there some exception that would make this also material that would be handed over to the prosecutors. >> we need more details, john, but it sounds on the surface like you could make a claim that this was attorney-client privilege ed material. however, there is an exception to the attorney client privilege, if you are discussing something of a criminal nature, it's called the crime fraud exception. in this discussion, it is perceived as a planned illegal payment, then there's no privilege. now one possibility of course would be if the payoff is being planned in order to protect donald trump's reputation in the election and part of the plan of course is not to report it to the federal election commission because obviously that would be revealing the secret that the payoff is designed to hide. that could be a crime. and if you make the argument that this could have been a discussion in pursuance of that crime, then it would never be revealed. but as you said, we don't h

daniels' attorney urging cohen to release the recordings. >> if michael cohen is a true patriot as he wants the american people to believe and lanny davis wants the american people to believe then michael cohen should release the audio recordings and i will tell you there's more than one, multiple recordings and all of them should be released for the benefit of the american public. >> reporter: for now, michael cohen isn't commenting. he's been seen on the streets of new york city but stayed mostly silent, at least publicly. he sat down with abc anchor george stephanopoulos off camera this month signaling a willingness to work with robert mueller and said his family comes first and not the president and late last night after a week of twisted words from the white house on russia, cohen quoted the broadcaster walter cronkite saying it's never more important than now for everyone to distinguish of innuendo and fact. michael cohen told friends this month he's skeptical that president trump would ever pardon him if cohen is charged with a crime. in fact, a source tells cnn when the presid

like michael cohen and allen. you have to worry if you're president trump that they are really getting close to you. >> yeah. you think they could unearth things that are relevant to the mueller investigation? >> yeah. of course the mueller investigation has been so disciplined. it's hard to know for sure what different angles they're looking at. that professionalism in not leaking information is actually quite intimidating if you're the defendant. or the subject of an investigation. because it means these are guys who know what they're doing. >> tell me about this case. and what this could mean to the investigation. >> well, i'm not sure how that would connect to the investigation. it's another legal problem for the president. and it's a fairly big one. from my per spect i have it's a good week in ethics in goth government. we haven't had a lot of those lately in government. in one of the three cases this is involving the state of maryland and the district of columbia. with help from a citizens for responsibility

president, sir, is michael cohen lying? >> reporter: after news his former attorney, michael cohen, is prepared to tell authorities that mr. trump was aware that russians offered to bring dirt on hillary clinton to a trump tower meeting with donald trump jr. in 2016. >> mr. president, did you know about the meeting at trump tower? >> reporter: but his only response has come on twitter. i did not know of the meeting with my son, don junior. then suggests a motive for cohen under investigation. sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jab. amid the controversy, the white house is celebrating. new signs the economy is thriving. >> we're on track to hit the highest annual average growth rate in over 13 years. >> reporter: and, alex, sometimes there is just the unusual situation of two figures well known being in a space where you might not expect them and that happens from time to time at washington's reagan national airport and on friday politico captured an image showi

so according to michael cohen's lawyer, michael cohen is not the one who leaked this story. and cnn and nbc news now confirming the claim donald trump knew in advance of the trump tower meeting and in fact that he approved going ahead with that meeting, knowing it was an offer of dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government to help him in his campaign. michael cohen claims that, according to this reporting, and is willing to discuss that with the special counsel, but that claim is not being leaked by michael cohen. it is being leaked by michael cohen. joining me now, the reporter from vand"vanity fair." >> let me ask you, i've been reporting this as breaking news, as it is coming across, as i'm getting little pieces of payment across my desk on this. have i said anything that does not comport with your understanding? >> reporter: no. and i will say cynic the time was released on friday, people in cohen's camp had believed exactly as you were saying right now. that part of these leaks were coming from somewhere in trump's orbit. whether it was from his personal attorne

cohen with what michael cohen may say, for instance, what michael cohen says now that the president knew about the russia meeting in advance, i would believe don jr. and the president in light of learning that michael was taping conversations, the way michael was conducting himself behind the scenes and in front of all of us. >> so you're saying -- you brought up this infamous trump tower meeting. wouldn't it be unusual if donald trump jr. never told his father about it at all? >> look, under normal circumstances, if you have -- in general i would think the president was told about it, especially because this was a relationship, everybody can understand this was done through the ogilarov family, they had hosted the president perfectly legally in moscow for miss universe and talked about a trump tower moscow for many years. you understand trump tower, you worked through it. but the e-mail was sent directly to don junior from goldstone. it was not sent to then mr. trump's executive assistant, rona graff. so if you had to ask me specifically, and in light of learning that, one, michael

he's going to do, honestly he's going to counsel michael cohen to do what's in michael cohen's best interest. that's what makes him a good lawyer and lawyer of integrity. so, that's why i don't think donald trump can buy his way out of michael cohen cooperating if michael cohen is so inclined to cooperate. i do not think the impediment to that would be donald trump paying his legal fees because i don't think that a lawyer like guy petrillo would counsel his client any differently. there are ethical rules around that and, one, i don't know if he would even take the money from donald trump. even if he did, he could not take it if it would cause him to give different advice to his client. so, if that's what this signal is about, you know, it's not going to go very far. >> it's not going to work. let's go down memory lane and look again at how donald trump reacted on the day of the search and raid of michael cohen's home and offices. attack on the country. >> it's a disgrace, a real disgrace. it's an attack on our country in a true sense. >> i wanted to put up from our friend jennifer ruben, pot

michael cohen in this manner? >> if he was try paired to turn state a evidence. i would consider it. in an effort to disclose information and bring the truth to the american people. >> prior to this television interview, is he aware of your willingness to do that. >> i you could say no, you could discuss it -- >> not what it seems you are implies is not news to him, something that may have been discussed? >> well, you can draw your own conclusions, here is what i am going to say. i had the occasion in the last few days to run into michael roken in a restaurant i have been going to to we had a chance to converse. a positive meeting. i came away from that meeting very encouraged by ultimately how all of this may work out. we will see. >> you feel encouraged. based on your recent face to face with michael coach do you knowledge retaining you would send a bigger message to donald trump? >> yes. advance the call of the that is why i am not going to rule it out. >> you are a man in demand, you could have been anywhere,

and i think that means that michael cohen is far more likely to cooperate. we can't rule out the possibility that he is already cooperating with the feds or in discussion with what that cooperation would look like. and as barbara said, you are piecing together all of the pieces of the puzzle that include numerous tapes probably. and now you have got more solid evidence and if they were talking about fictitious accounts set up to pay the playboy model. that in itself could create separate violations. >> what the potential offenses could be here. if it wasn't about keeping a story out of the press at a particular time when it would have been influential to voters in the united states, it gets less serious. the issue here, the thing that investigators want to know and the thing that the country wants to know, is did michael cohen as is alleged with stormy daniels. >> some of these are legally significant, and some politically significant. campaign finance violations or wire or mail fraud, it is a criminal violation. the other question is what are the political

>> no. >> then why did michael cohen make those -- >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? >> no, i don't know. >> so he denied that and then referenced michael cohen, saying you'll have to ask his attorney michael cohen. so, do you think that this new recording, does it to you show that he did have an affair and he tried to cover it up or that he knew about it? >> i think it is certainly circumstantial evidence donald trump knew about each of these payments and knew what was going on in the months prior to the election day of what payments were being made and how they were being structured and michael cohen was consulting with him. i don't know how you reconcile this tape, don, with michael cohen's denials and others acting on his behalf when we first filed this case in march, april and may. how many times did we hear michael cohen and people on his behalf claim that the allegations were false and that hm and donald trump, that he and donald trump were innocen

my job is not to save michael cohen or to help michael cohen. if michael cohen would start finding the truth he'd find himself in a much better position. >> michael avenatti. thank you for joining us. i know you're up early on the west coast. appreciate it. we'll be following this as the stories develop. >>> i'm joined now to talk with federal white collar criminal defense attorney and the msnbc national political reporter from the "washington post." caroline, does you hear anything from avenatti in your view that changes the game here? >> i don't. michael avenatti, notwithstanding, i think this is the clearest indication he's absolutely right that michael cohen will in fact cooperate with federal prosecutors. i think it's an important note, hallie, that you made in the beginning here this case hasn't been indicted. it's different than paul manafort. if there were ever a time for michael cohen to go in there and talk with federal prosecutors now would be the time. they have time in terms of moving forward with prosecuting. remember, the case in

but michael cohen -- >> first of all, they are going to divide the books. >> michael cohen is in that no-man's land no. where he lost donald trump. he is never getting a pardon. and he has not yet gotten mueller. >> you never know who you are going to run into waiting for a plane at the airport. take a look at this photo showing special counsel mueller. what do you make of that? this is d.c. >> this is still a small town. everybody knows the pain of 35 x at reagan. and you saw that picture. and you wanted to know. it doesn't seem like either was aware. >> spotlighted it here. there is donald trump with the baseball cap and there is robert mueller. >> in the tip o'neill days, it was a small town where people treated each other with more civility because they might run into each other at dinner or at the airport. >> maybe not prosecutors and defendants. ♪ go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way, with anoro." ♪ go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that work together to significantly improve lung function a

cohen squares that saying of course donald trump knew. is michael cohen lying? this raises a lot of questions. is there any corroboration? >> on another larger issue, michael cohen knows everything. he is the long time fixer. he has been at the president's side. so the idea that he is ready, he says, through sources to cooperate with robert mueller, is it a game changer? >> it could be, it depends on in michael cohen is telling the truth, and whether or not he has any corroboration, any other witnesses, any tape recordings, any e-mails or texts that corroborate what he is saying. >> all right special agent, someone that has investigated matters before, this information comes out overnight, michael cohen making this public revelation, cnn reporting michael cohen's mind-set on this. what happens now. if you're robert mueller, what do you do? >> i think at the outset, what this tells us is that for a group that is so tight knit, they're terrible at colluding if there was collusion. if you think about it, it doesn't look like they got information from the russians,

what about michael cohen's lawyer, lanny davis? >> the statement we got from lanny davis was, we have nothing to say on this matter. so the story actually puts cohen and his team in a little bit of a box here, right, because if they want to ultimately cooperate with investigators, as they certainly signaled a willingness to do, kind of the fewer pieces of information that come out publicly, the better. ditto for president trump's people. but this is a thorny moment in the cohen/trump relationship. at one point, remember, michael cohen said i would take a bullet for the president. and this has become a very rocky relationship since the fbi investigation burst into public light in april. you know, what we also learned was that at one point, cohen's lawyers and trump's lawyers actually sort of, you know, talked informally about, how does this end for cohen? is the president going to pardon cohen, is that where this goes? the president's lawyers were very kind of cool to the issue, they were noncommittal. they didn't say, yeah, yeah, w

what is michael cohen thinking? >> our understanding from people who speak to michael cohen is it's two things. 1, as you said alysn, he feels hung out to dry. now he feels the president is abandoning him. in addition to that we're told michael cohen wants to do the right thing now, he wants to show he values country over anything else, including his former boss. there's a positive motivation there as well. whether you believe that or not that is what people close to him say explains his change from being one of the president's defenders to saying, listen, i know what really happened here. and i'm willing to say that to investigators. the other thing i would say is this, someone is lying here, right? >> yeah. >> and that's the question and the question for investigators, perhaps juries and the american public to decide. but we also know -- we know that the president and his allies have given misleading accounts of this prior, right? because remember their initial -- first of all, they said there were no meetings wit

those comments were far beyond anything i've said about michael cohen, why isn't michael cohen's attorney trying to have a gag order placed on rudy giuliani? which would also affect my case, because rudy is the best attorney working on my team. >> i know you feel that way. the other thing i want to ask you about is other news you've broken, and you've been a source of not only ideas and opinions, but also information in this case. you have new women you say are coming forward. i'm wondering why now. so i want to get your answer to that. let's fit in a quick break. we'll come back in just 30 seconds with michael avenatti. e? its show of strength... or its sign of intelligence? in crossing harsh terrain... or breaking new ground? this is the time to get an exceptional offer on the mercedes of your midsummer dreams at the mercedes-benz summer event, going on now. receive up to a $1,250 summer event bonus on select suvs. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. >>> we're back with michael avenatti who says today there are new women coming forward claiming they were also paid by donald trump or oth

cohen? >> mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? is michael cohen telling the truth? mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? >> and that from a president who usually loves shouting questions and scrums with the media. but this week the typical chatty president hasn't answer aid single question. it's been a rough few days for the president. the start of the week we found out federal investigators have 12 audio tapes from trump's former fixer michael cohen and a new poll found that a majority of americans believe russia has compromising information on donald trump. on wednesday one of the cohen audio tapes was released and the public heard then candidate trump talking about buying the rights to a former playboy play mate story about an alleged affair. then a federal judge rejected the president's effort to stop a lawsuit alleging he violated laws regarding conflicts of interest with foreign governments. we also learned the trump organization cfo who has deep ties to the trump family was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in the cohen criminal case. and

michael? >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael's my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> reporter: as the russia investigation tightened, cohen famously said last year, i'm the guy who would take a pubullet f the president. >> the fbi today raided the offices of president trump's long-time attorney michael cohen. >> reporter: the president erupted. >> they say an attack on our country in a true sense. >> reporter: while he shouted witch hunt, cohen has gone another way telling abc, i don't agree with those that demonize or vilify the fbi. i will not be a punch bag in the defense strategy and now i put family and country first. for his part, trump who used to warmly mention cohen seems to have stopped even using his name publicly. let alone saying nice things about him. jake? >> tom, thanks so much. sticking with my experts here, how much worse is this going to get? between president trump and his former fixer, son, whatever? >> you know, if the past is prologue, it's not going to get any better but nastier and nasti

did michael cohen betray you, mr. president? did michael cohen betray you? mr. president you worried about what michael cohen is going to say to prosecutors? are you worried about what is on the other tapes, mr. president? donald trump's answer to each of these questions today was thank you. when he was being bombarded by questions about the tape of his conversation with michael cohen as reporters were being ushered out of the president's oval office meeting with the president of the european commission. and in classic trump white house style, the cnn reporter who yelled those questions to the president was banned from the president's next appearance in the rose garden where another cnn reporter was allowed to cover that event for the network. but it didn't meater because the president immediately turned and left before reporters could shout their questions across the grass. if you are one of those people who thinks that donald trump does not have a good answer to any one of those questions that were yelled at him today, you are not alone. you are not alone toni

michael cohen secretly

michael well. >> it's like the michael cohen friends, family and tormentoring table. >> michael cohen reportedly has a story to tell. nbc news confirmed cohen is willing to inform robert mueller that donald trump as a candidate knew about that 201 meeting between russians and his top campaign aides at trump tower. a knowledgeable source says the president's former attorney is willing to tell special counsel donald trump jr. told his father in advance of the meeting. cohen's plames first rors erepoy cnn, cohen doesn't have evidence to back up his story and cnn reporting a source familiar with cone's testimony to the house intelligence committee says cohen did not testify that trump had advance knowledge, nor does that claim appear in either of the committee's reports. delining comment, his attorney, lanny davis. i have to wonder why the trump people put that story out. it was not from us. rudy giuliani had this to say. >> i expected something from this from cohen. lying a week, two weeks. lying for years. i don't see how he has any credibility. if he had a trial, and there won't be, wh

michael cohen has been silent. what are we to make of the timing of -- did he just get frustrated with other people telling his story? that's a human -- an understandable human impulse that you're sick of people talking about you and you want to have the last word or do you see something in the timing of why he's breaking his silence today? >> a lot of this we don't know because we don't know what the prosecutors have been describing to them in terms of how their investigation is moving forward of the obviously you're going to make different choices about what you say publicly depending what level of legal threat you think you're under. the one thing we still haven't seen, you know, michael cohen was not just a lawyer who worked on a case or issue for donald tru trump. he was the fixer and con fidaept and business con fidant. the question that i think still is out there is when it comes to the issues that threaten donald trump, how much is there in conversations and documents and memos and e-mails between donald tr

>> he challenged michael cohen to release all the tapes, publicly, even though michael cohen doesn't have to do that. but you just heard him say on the show that he quickly has to release everything. joining us right now is leon panetta, the former cia director, mr. secretary, thank you for joining us. do you have a problem with president trump inviting the russian president vladimir putin to the white house for a second summit in the fall? >> well, it races a lot of concerns, first of all, we don't know what went on in that one-on-one meeting between president trump and president putin. and i think the president yos it so the american people to explain just exactly what they talked about and whether or not any agreements were made. unless that is cleared up i don't quite understand why he would again invite putin to this country, particularly at a time when we're aware that the russians are interfering with our election process, and this meeting would take place just weeks before the midterms. so it just doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of the kind of diplomatic strategy that mo

michael cohen has not been charged with anything. there's not even an indication that he has met with prosecutors. but two and a half weeks ago, june 13th, abc news was first to report that michael cohen is, quote, likely to cooperate with federal investigators. whether or not that story from june 13 is true, michael cohen does not appear to have been upset about that reporting. there was a single byline on june 13. it was george stephanopoulos. michael cohen does not appear to be holding a grudge against george stephanopoulos because this weekend he gave george stephanopoulos his first interview. the first interview in which he has gone on at length about this investigation he's embroiled in. i know this sounds like a little inside baseball but this is worth noting at pivot points in the news. george stephanopoulos was the first person who reported that michael cohen would flip. he also just got the first interview with michael cohen about this case and in his interview, mr. cohen strongly hints that he is looking to cooperate with

it is not michael cohen's words. the most important line is this: once petrillo fully assumes his role, a joint defense agreement cohen shared with the president, which allowed their lawyers to share information and documents with each other will come to an end, abc news has learned. if that happens, that will be the bitter end of the michael cohen-donald trump relationship. and it will mean that donald trump has even more reason to fear michael cohen. the rest of the report is michael cohen saying perfectly normal things that make sense. but for michael cohen, that itself is unusual. michael cohen used to say that he was, quote, the guy who would take a bullet for donald trump. now he's saying my wife, my daughter and my son have my first loyalty and always is. and there is no husband or father in the world who should think any differently. but michael cohen had that same wife and that same daughter and that same son when he said that he would take a bullet for donald trump and leave his wife a widow and leave his c

nowhere in there does it say michael cohen says cash. >> michael cohen never says cash in what i hear -- >> check, rather. you hear him say check. >> i never hear michael cohen say cash or check. i hear donald trump say cash and check. the trump organization has this argument that he was talking about a way to pay for things and not green money. then why did he mention a check if he was talking about a full payment or prorated or staggered payments, he wouldn't have said check. >> so, listen, i spoke with some of michael cohen's friends. i just want to read it specifically. his friends say it certainly looks like he wants to tell the tuth to the most important person in america right now who is seeking the truth about trump. you know who that is, that's mueller. i asked lanny davis when he was on your set, i asked him, please come see me, i want to ask you about something i heard. he said, i can't answer that question. the truth is on our side. who wants to most hear the truth from michael cohen? i have to leave it at that and leave it unanswered. >> lanny davis is a very talented adv

he trusted michael cohen for a long time and michael cohen knows his inside business, knows all of the secrets, knows where the bodies are buried, figuratively. so he is nervous and i think he should be. >> evan perez, here's my question to you. so far from the trump team, from the campaign when it was "the wall street journal" in the fall of '16 they broke this story and denied trump knew anything about this payment when clearly based upon this reporting he did. >> right, exactly. they denied. look, they denied everything related to any of these claims that have been made, and it does appear that information then comes forward that shows the denials are not quite accurate. look, we'll have to see whether or not this is something that prosecutors end up using in this investigation and they made clear that they are looking into charging michael cohen. we don't know exactly what necessarily the charges will look like, whether they have anything to do with perhaps an election law violation because obviously if someone made a payment to benefit the president before the election and that is

nowhere in there does it say michael cohen says cash. >> michael cohen never says cash in what i hear -- >> check, rather. you hear him say check. >> i never hear michael cohen say cash or check. i hear donald trump say cash and check. the trump organization has this argument that he was talking about a way to pay for things and not green money. then why did he mention a check if he was talking about a full payment or prorated or staggered payments, he wouldn't have said check. >> so, listen, i spoke with some of michael cohen's friends. i just want to read it specifically. his friends say it certainly looks like he wants to tell the truth to the most important person in america right now who is seeking the truth about trump. you know who that is, that's mueller. i asked lanny davis when he was on your set, i asked him, please come see me, i want to ask you about something i heard. he said, i can't answer that question. the truth is on our side. who wants to most hear the truth from michael cohen? i have to leave it at that and leave it unanswered. >> lanny davis is a very talented ad

cohen? >> mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? is michael cohen telling the truth? mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? >> and that from a president who usually loves shouting questions with the media. this week the typically chatty president hasn't answered a single question. it's been a rough few days for the president. the start of the week we found out federal investigators have 12 audio tapes from trump's former fixer michael cohen and a new poll found that a majority of americans believe russia has compromising information on donald trump. on wednesday one of the cohen audio tapes was released and the public heard then candidate trump talking about buying the rights to a former play boy play mate story about an alleged affair. then a federal judge rejected the president's effort to stop a lawsuit alleging he violated laws regarding conflicts of interest with foreign governments. we also learned the trump organization cfo who has deep ties to the trump family was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in the cohen criminal case. and last night,

michael cohen was asked by our committee about the trump tower meeting. we're not allowed to go into what he said, but i do believe this is all the reason that the republicans should release the transcripts, not just for michael cohen but every witness who was interviewed around the trump tower meeting. i will say this, though. michael cohen is being accused of being a liar, but all of the lies that he has told were on behalf of donald trump, and we have seen every day in america witnesses who come forward, testify in court, change their story because they want to tell the truth, and juries rely on that, and that is often persuasive if it can be corroborated. that's what we have to do now is to see if his testimony can be corroborated. >> if it turns out donald trump jr. didn't tell the truth in front of congress, should he be held in contempt? would there be any appetite from republicans obviously to do so? >> right now, there's no appetite from the republicans. they closed our investigation. i think this revelation shows how premature and irresponsible

cohen with what michael cohen may say, for instance, oh what michael says now that the president knew about the russia meeting in advance, i would believe don jr. and the president in light of learning chat l was taping conversations, the way michael was conducting himself behind the scenes and in front of all of us. >> so you're saying -- you ought up this infamous trump tower meeting. wouldn't it be i unusualf donald trump jr. never told his father about it at all? >> look, under normal circumstances, if youave -- general i would think the president was told about it,ly especiecause this was a relationship, everybody can understand this was done through the ogilarov family, they had hosted the president perfectly legally in moscow for miss universe and talked about a trump tower moscow formany years. you understand trump tower, you worked through it. but the e-mail was sent directly to don junior from go nstone. it was sent to then mr. trump's executive assistant, rona graff. so if you had t ask me specifically, and in light of learning that, one, michael was tapingresident, two, he

cohen and michael cohen's attorneys? >> well, we have zero interest, wolf, in cooperating with michael cohen until and unless he comes to the conclusion that it is time for him to come 100% clean and do the right thing, disclose what he knows about the president and let the chips fall where they may. if he does not do that, i'm tired of hearing about how he's a potential patriot. i'm tired of hearing about the love of country. and i think most americans have heard enough at this point. he needs to do the right thing or move on. period. >> we know he's under criminal investigation. do you think he'll be charged? >> well, i do. i think he ultimately will be charged. but i think the best thing that michael cohen could do for himself and for the nation is to come clean right now, period. >> michael avenatti, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >>> just ahead, we'll have more on the president's threat to revoke the security clearances of former intel officials. is he the one who is politicizing national security? met

the latest, of course, michael cohen. the development where he is now alleging that president trump, then candidate trump, knew about that trump tower meeting in june of 2016. of course, president trump has denied that. said he did not know. so many developments on that front with michael cohen, the white house watching that carefully. last night i was told the president's mood was growing increasingly more worried about this investigation. certainly, the strong economic news, good news here. the administration would be off to a great start if it was not for the self-inflicted wounds of the investigations. >> all those russia headlines. jeff zeleny at white house, thank you. >>> let's find out what moscow is saying about this possible upcoming summit. matthew chance joins us from russia. what are you hearing there? >> reporter: all this, of course, stems from a press conference that was being given by vladimir putin, the russian president in south africa. he is attending a summit there with world leaders from emerging mar

you heard michael cohen say what? no, no, no, no, no. >> and you're saying he wasn't saying, no, no, i would never pay with cash. i'll only pay with a check? >> he was saying, no, no, new york -- no, you don't pay with cash. and that's why what you heard, no matter the spin, is about truth versus falsehood. this is what this hole thing is about. mr. trump used the word cash and he lied about it by having giuliani accuse cohen saying the word cash. now we've put the tape out, and you decide whether i'm telling you the truth because the tape says what it says. but this is about the big topic in america today. a president of the united states who consistently lies. now he has giuliani lying about the lie. remember, he lied about what he said on air force one, openly lied. he said, no, i had nothing to do with stormy daniels. then giuliani said, oh, yes, he did. then he lied about the statement in trump tower, that he had nothing to do with it. it wasn't misleading. he in fact was involved in the writing of a definitely m