rosenstein offers to write this memo. and enormous blowback on rosenstein for that. and that's where we find him in this story where he was considering these different measures. >> joyce, take us through whether or not, if the firing of comey is a flash point in the obstruction investigation, could the firing of rosenstein also be viewed as trying to get rid of someone overseeing an investigation into the president himself? >> you know, they could easily end up being the book ends on an obstruction case because at this point with all we know, firing rosenstein based on something as thin as this would look very pretextual. it's really interesting, though. we see -- i don't know what the opposite of an echo is. sessions is not his attorney and doesn't represent him. and this whole notion that trump has never fully understood that the attorney general works for the american people, not for the president. i think we see this same thing with his interaction with rosenstein early on. rosenstein was working for the justice department and the american people. he believed tha

to push rosenstein into saying no. to push him into saying no, refusing the president's demands so the president could fire him in response. when rosenstein went to the white house to talk about him, the president to have blinked. rosenstein told him you can't let this stuff out and the script, i think they thought he's going to follow fox news and standing up and said, oh, you are fired and instead the president said, okay, i will withdraw my request. if the president is looking for a pretext to fire rosenstein and oversees the mueller's investigation. he could have install somebody else in that job to make the mueller's investigation to go away. if that's the goal here, the gambette would not work. the president does not have that to go ahead and without plan. that was this morning and then this happened. hours after the president climbed down on the declassification thing. the new york times decided to do this. "rod rosenstein suggested secretly recording trump and z discussed the 25th amendment." he discussed recru

kelly and rosenstein have been close. and i'm told by one source that, you know, kelly has protected rosenstein over the last months. so maybe this is just i quit/you're fired. maybe rosenstein has had enough of this and has decided to leave. as you have been talking about, there's a difference between being fired and resigning. if he resigns, the president has more leeway about what he can do and who he can appoint to replace him. so it's just one of these convoluted situations that we're just going to wait and see how this final act plays out. but it's been an unhappy situation for a very long time. >> absolutely. one thing, and i can always be wrong, but one thing seems certain, something is going to happen. we're just not sure what road we're going to be walking down or reporting on. great to see you. joining me right now, very important voice in the next steps ahead. democratic congressman jerry nadler of new york. he's the top democrat on the house judiciary committee. thank you so much for being here. completely di

boris, rosenstein on his mind? >> reporter: yeah, we're anxiously refreshing our twitter feeds to see if the deputy attorney general still has a job this morning. president trump very liking, he enjoys, i should say, firing people on twitter and tweeting early on weekend mornings. we'll see where he goes with that. it's no secret that president trump is unhappy with his department of justice and talked about that they don't prosecute his political enemies and don't investigate those such as duncan. in part, rosenstein has given free rein to robert mueller to run the russian investigation which as you know the president it calls a witch hunt. this before rosenstein speculating about using the 25th amendment and wiretapping the president. no direct response from the president just yet. he was asked about this on a tarmac yesterday as he arrived for an event in springfield, missouri. while there he did make a statement that may have some implications for the future of the deputy attorney general. watch this. >> we hav

but rod rosenstein, because jeff sessions is refused, rod rosenstein is the person running the russia investigation. supervising the investigation. he's the person that approves all the major moves by robert mueller. he's the person who whom mueller would issue a report and then the deputy attorney general would make a decision on whether to further that report to congress, make it public and so forth. is person in that job is pivotal to the future of the russia investigation. if rosenstein is out, then there's a question about who would take over supervising the russia investigation. and i think there's several options. one of them is that noel francisco who is currently the solicitor general, the government's top courthouse lawyer, the person who oversees all basically all the government's litigating in court, especially in the appeals court and the supreme court, whether he would take over. he's a person who's been in private practice and really enjoys the job of solicitor general. i think he would be a reluctant soldier if he was drafted for that job, or would someone else take th

rosenstein's fate. president trump won't say if he'll fire his deputy attorney general when they meet face-to-face this week. after a day of conflicting reports, is the man who oversees robert mueller's russia investigation about to go? distraction or disaster? we're exploring why the white house is dragging out the suspense about rod rosenstein and what it all could mean for the russia probe. this hour, key lawmakers getting ready to weigh in on mr. trump's motives. >>> supreme allegations. brett kavanaugh is denying a second allegation of past misconduct as he and christine blasey ford prepare to testify on thursday. in a just-released letter, ford is defending her decision to publicly accuse the high court nominee. and it is political. the president and gop leaders claim democrats are trying to smear kavanaugh. tonight the top senate republican is suggesting there will be a confirmation vote no matter what >>> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer.

rosenstein's fate wasn't clear after the "new york times" reported friday that rosenstein had suggested he wear a wire to secretly record the president and even discuss recruiting cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment in order to remove trump from office. according to a person close to the president, trump was too concerned with the news about his supreme court nominee, brett kavanaugh, to focus on his deputy attorney general. >> i think it's a very sad story. and people are obviously -- we are looking into it. but it's a very sad state of affairs when something like that could happen. >> but will you fire rod rosenstein, based on this treachery? >> i don't want to comment on it until i get all of the facts. i haven't gotten all of the facts. but certainly, it's being looked at in terms of what took place, if anything took place. and i'll make a determination sometime later. but i don't have the facts. >> reporter: sources tell cnn, rosenstein over the weekend discussed with kelly the prospect of resigning, but wanted to control the timing. this morning, white house sources tell

would remain in office for now, but if rosenstein is out, who would then take on rosenstein's current job of supervising the mueller probe? we have nbc's pete williams, our justice correspondent, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker, "washington post" white house bureau chief, phil rucker. and adam schiff on the house intelligence committee. thanks to all of you. first of all, pete williams, if you can pick it up where i have left off of all of your great reporting today. we know there are different signals coming on what is going to happen to rod rosenstein. >> exactly, andreandrea, two contradictory stories about what's happening here. there was one and possibly two meetings in may of last year, rod rosenstein suggested that people wear a wire when pemeeti with the president to talk about who the new fbi director should be, and perhaps invoking the 25th amendment to declare the president unfit for office. after that story came out, the justice department pushed back against it. rosenstein issued a statement that had conversations with the white house friday night. they

rosenstein's fate. president trump won't say if he'll fire his deputy attorney general when they meet face-to-face this week. after a day of conflicting reports, is the man who oversees robert mueller's russia investigation about to go? distraction or disaster? we're exploring why the white house is dragging out the suspense about rod rosenstein and what it all could mean for the russia probe. this hour, key lawmakers getting ready to weigh in on mr. trump's motives. >>> supreme allegations. brett kavanaugh is denying a second allegation of past misconduct as he and christine blasey ford prepare to testify on thursday. in a just-released letter, ford is defending her decision to publicly accuse the high court nominee. and it is political. the president and gop leaders claim democrats are trying to smear kavanaugh. tonight the top senate republican is suggesting there will be a confirmation vote no

rosenstein has denied the report. democrats are stepping up warnings to president trump not to fire rosenstein. senator patrick leahy say saturday night massacres don't have to happen on a saturday. if the president fires rosenstein, he will come a leap closer to meddling in the russian investigation. catherine herridge is live in washington with more. this all shifted from the press secretary about why rosenstein is at the white house today. >> we just received a statement from sarah sanders, and it now confirms several facts and also a timeline for developments with the rosenstein case. it reads "at the request of rod rosenstein, he and president trump had an extended conversation to discussion the recent news stories because the president is at the united nations general assembly and has a full schedule with leaders from around the world. they will meet thursday when the president returns to washington d.c. before that statement was issued by the white house, we had reaction from the ranking democrat, adam schiff.

believe rosenstein's lying. he said he did not do the things alleged. >> the president tonight should seriously consider whether rod rosenstein should remain on the job. the white house should be dwoegt every resource it can to determining the veracity of this report. >> rod deserves the right to be heard. i'm sure at some point the president will bring rod in and say, rod, if you think i'm incompetent, if you feel the need to wear a wire when you're talking to me, then why are you serving in my administration? >> that there was a handful of conservative voices who the president oftentimes listens to and, obviously, they're opining as to whether or not he should he should or should not fire his deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. this is happening as a source tells cnn that rosenstein expects to be fired after that "new york times" blockbuster report that rosenstein said he discussed secretly taping trump. let's take a deeper dive. with me, elliott berger and jennifer taub. we don't know who he's going to li

bob mueller and rod rosenstein. if either go, there will be a crumbling support in the investigation and process is important. you want that public support. >> what about that? >> you absolutely do and you're right. it's not new news that rod rosenstein has been vulnerable. he has been vulnerable with the doj under this approximation. he was looked at as a potential witness in the investigation because of his own drafting of a memorandum about why james comey usurped the authority of lo letta lynlet a lynch. he said look, robert mueller doesn't have checked power here. you have somebody who lets him do whatever he would like to do. there is no oversight vulnerable there as well. you have the latest thing where you put the president of the united states in the conundrum. either he has to go ahead and relish in the fact that he can have an out with firing somebody he doesn't want and andy cabe, the former acting fbi director who wrote the memo is not a liar and the new york times is authoritative and credible. the pub

to what end is rosenstein going to get fired? and the backdrop that we're up against, the midterms six weeks from tomorrow, the fact that as jim was saying, the republican base and the democratic base are very focused on this issue, is no small thing, which is why you're seeing uncharacteristic restraint from the president on the notion of getting an opportunity to fire somebody he didn't like, hasn't liked for a long time, and at least for now, is not doing it. >> maggie, you have new reporting tonight that concerns chief of staff john kelly. this was, indeed, not true. but they had some discussion about rosenstein resigning. my understanding from two people who were briefed on what took place, john kelly made clear he expected the president was going to be quite angry about this. the president for whatever reason, whether because of the political ramifications which i do think is the main one, whether it's because he touched the hot stove once before by firing james comey and what he got as a result is robert mueller and doesn'

rod rosenstein that we know today. and so jeremy is absolutely right. the president would be looking at a different rod rosenstein if he chose the comments he made in may of 2017 as validation for firing him. >> now jeremy just made the point we may have come very close to a friday night massacre. if this were espn, this piece of video i'm going to show you would be number one on the countdown. i want to show you this. this is sean hannity tonight on fox news directly to camera and speaking to just one viewer. >> i have a message for the president tonight. under zero circumstances should the president fire anybody, these actors tonight, and i've had multiple sources confirming this, and more information coming. they are hoping and praying that the president does just that. they're hoping he gets mad, that he gets sick and tired of it, and that they can turn this politically into their equivalent of a friday night massacre. the president needs to know it is all a setup. he needs to know that regardless of whether he ste

but i sure hope he doesn't fire rod rosenstein. i've had my disagreements with mr. rosenstein. i've said some of them publicly on your show, but right now i think he's doing us a service standing between the white house and bob mueller. >> do you expect that if the president did move to fire him, whether it was tonight author weekend or any time in coming days that there would be a serious reaction within the law enforcement and intelligence community? >> i think there would be a dramatic reaction. i think folks know that bob mueller is a fine and decent and honest and thorough special counsel, and that the men and women working for him are sticking to the facts and the law. in getting rid of rod rosenstein would be -- would bring us i think one step closer to either either eliminating the special counsel's role or circumscribing it in a way that would make it very difficult for bob mueller and his team to do their jobs. >> chuck rosenberg, former attorney, forrer fbi. thank you for being with us on a friday night. >> thank you, rachel. >>> a bit of a whiplash inducing news nig

besides rosenstein, none of your sources who said rosenstein was serious about the wire were actually in the room. is that right? >> i can't go any further than how we did in describing that, about describing whether they were in the room or not in the room. we went as far as we could in describing, you know, the knowledge that they had. >> well, i mean, that's what i'm reading from, briefed either on the events or memos. so that would imply that they're basing it on that secondhand material. >> we went as far as we could go in the sourcing on it in what we wrote. >> i guess the other big question that hangs over this, and i'll bring in some other experts, you are a very experienced reporter, you've got a bombshell in your hands, and we all know. but ultimately you have the on the record denial from rosenstein in there. you're talking about matters of constitutional crisis level stuff, like the 25th amendment, you ultimately as a reporter with your colleagues made a determination that these other sources were more credible, you gave them more weight than rosenstein, the doj's rebuttal

attorney general rod rosenstein. brett kavanaugh defends himself on a new letter wearing hearing about. hello, everyone, i am julie banderas in for dana perino. this is "the daily briefing." ♪ >> julie: we begin with rod rosenstein. this morning, his job was in jeopardy. heading back to the justice department with an appointment to see the president this thursday. the same day, judge kavanaugh's accuser is set to testify in a dramatic public hearing on capitol hill. we have life fox news coverage for you today. covering president trump at the united nations, but will begin with catherine in washington. >> a short time ago, the press secretary confirming the attorney general had extended conversation about the reporting party that rosenstein discussed invoking the 20 for the moment from removing, allegations that he denied. it leaves his future in limbo until thursday. this morning, the ranking democrat on the intelligence committee urged him to hold on. >> he should not take a step affirmatively, and essentially le

we have seen what rod rosenstein is really about. whether it's rod rosenstein. he covered up for peter strzok, lisa page and andrew mccabe. he's also the individual, and you remember this, he recommended that bob mueller become the head of the fbi after comey was fired. and then the next day, he personally appointed robert mueller as the special counsel to investigate this president. >> laura: tonight the president briefly referenced this issue with the secret recording. let's batch. -- watch. >> we have great people in the department of justice. we have great people. they are people, i really believe, you take a poll. i have to be at 95%. you had some real bad ones. you are seeing what has happened at the fbi. they are all gone but there is a lingering stench. we are going to get rid of that too. >> laura: kendall, a lingering stench. your thoughts there? who is he preferring to pray tell? >> obviously, he is concerned about rod rosenstein. i think he should be. i don't think we can make "the new york times" the judge and jury of rosenstein's fate. but what the

to what end is rosenstein going to get fired? and the backdrop that we're up against, the midterms six weeks from tomorrow, the fact that as jim was saying, the republican base and the democratic base are very focused on this issue, is no small thing which is why you're seeing uncharacteristic restraint from the president on the notion of getting an opportunity to fire somebody he didn't like, hasn't liked for a long time, and at least for now, is not doing it. >> maggie, you have new reporting tonight that concerns chief of staff john kelly. >> so john kelly is central to everything that has happened over the last couple days because rod rosenstein, as dana said, was the subject of some internal investigation that john kelly did. this began friday. where he called rod rosenstein to the white house, asked him about what had happened, told him to issue a better denial if this was, indeed, not true. but they had some discussion about rosenstein resigning. my understanding from two people who were briefed on what took place, john ke

remind us how alarmed rod rosenstein was at that period and what heightened his alarm. >> rosenstein was unnerved. he had played a significant role in the comey firing. he had provided the memo the white house uses as the rationale for it saying that he handled that investigation of hillary clinton incorrectly. then rosenstein was being criticized sharply for basically helping create what was believed to be a fake story about why they fired him, and rosenstein sort of lost it. he became unnerved. he was very emotional. he was very upset. he said things that were at times irrational and didn't really add up with what was going on around him. in that period of time he discussed two things that we found particularly interesting. one of them was about wearing a wire, and the other was about the 25th amendment. for us this provided a window into what was going on at the justice department at this crucial time as the justice department made the ultimate decision, the extraordinary decision of appointing a special counsel to investigate the president of the united states. >> how long have y

rosenstein's remark was sarcastic. when you talk to people who know rod, he has a dry wit, it's possible he said something in jest. but complicating this picture, ari, is that the new york times has reported in the last few minutes there was a second instance where they talked about rod rosenstein potentially recording the president or wearing a wire. and our sources are pushing back on that. there were four career people in the room in addition to those named people you outlined. this is a knowable fact. all these people can be interviewed and we can get to the bottom of it, we do have andy mccabe's contemporaneous memo. some people contend he has an axe to grind. he was the deputy director of the fbi, i think his account should be given credibility. it's a hall of mirrors. we have two opposing accounts here. >> i think this is part of the overall effort to try to get rid of the russian investigation. one piece of the context you didn't mention, donald trump came out and was trying to declassify all of the classified

don't believe andrew mccabe, he has an ax to grind because rod rosenstein -- and rod rosenstein's statement is calculated in a way. i think you pointed it exactly the right, it's written in the present tense and that's rod rosenstein's way of speaking directly to the president. saying, mr. president, i don't think that you're incapable of handling this job. so that's his way of sort of making sure that he stays in this job. we cannot, you know, overstate how important he is to the completion of this investigation because, you know, when mueller is finished with his work it's going to go to rod rosenstein. before congress gets a chance to see anything it's going to go through rod rosenstein. so i think that's why it's so crucial for rod rosenstein to not get fired in the next few weeks and i think people around the president are going to be trying to make sure that he hears that and he understands that, that you can't do it certainly not yet. wait until mueller is finished and then everyone expects that both rosenstein and jeff sessions, everybody will be gone. but at least wait it out is i

rod rosenstein specifically. he also not only talked about this but apparently suggested that maybe jeff sessions, the attorney general, would be on board. john kelly, who is now chief of staff. there were specifics there. >> he was then the secretary for homeland security. >> correct. whether or not this is the beginning of the end for rod rosenstein, from capitol hill standpoint, republicans up there, trump allies, have been trying to hit a fatal blow on him for a long time. they have an impeachment resolution and they filed it because they say rod rosenstein has not been giving over documents they want in certain committee investigations. this seems to go way beyond that. allegations that made a "new york times" story from fbi sources saying that he wanted to record the president and was talking about the 25th amendment. this is that fatal blow they have been looking for. but, again, the election just jumbles things. i don't know if the president cares about keeping the house, if he thinks the house is already

a report rosenstein has denied. let's bring in jason chaffetz fox news contributor and author of the new book" deep state." lindsey graham says there is a deep state working against president trump. >> it is playing out in realtime. we saw it at the highest echelons at the department of justice. they thought hillary clinton would be elected and she is not. we need to know who were the six or seven people in the meeting and what were they discussing? we're focused on what what rod rosenstein side or didn't say but there was an underlying discussion about how to go after this president. the very next day is when they actually, rod rosenstein appoints director mueller to be the special counsel. >> sandra: rod rosenstein denies all the allegations out there against him. should there be a special counsel investigation? >> for a long time members of congress have been calling for a special counsel. they need at least six or seven names and congress should bring them in one at a time for a transcribed interview under oath

said that rosenstein must go. the why is straight forward. the friday "new york times" story recounting how rosenstein wore a wire to tape the president he viewed as erratic and purr suing the 25th amendment, trying to remove the president from office. part of our reporting team is live at the justice department. what's the latest? >> there is a certain amount of confusion at this hour about the status of the deputy attorney general and what his future holes. the short story is this is not over yet. the white house officials reporting with kaitlyn col ups that john kelly told people that the deputy attorney general offered his resignation. i am told it's more complicated in terms of the timeline and this weekend there were a series of conversations after the fallout from that "new york times" bombshell and the deputy attorney general discussed resignation, but did not actually resign. instead he discussed the timing and the white house and the deputy attorney general could not get on the same page. my colleague re

the deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein. sources are telling cnn that after president trump fired the fbi director, james comey, last year, rosenstein discussed secretly recording the president and recruiting cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment to remove him from office. the "new york times" first reported the information. rosenstein has responded with a statement calling the "times" story, and i'm quoting now, inaccurate and factually incorrect. we'll talk about that much more with congressman jim himes of the intelligence committee. and our correspondent, specialists and analysts are also standing by. first let's get details on the breaking news. our evan perez and crime and justice reporter are both working the story for us. evan, break down all the information involving this explosive report. >> that's right, wolf. this is an explosive story. and this all came down last year in weeks and days after the president fired james comey, the fbi director. rod rosenstein was in meetings, and he described possibly wearin

to fire rosenstein paid a visit to the white house today fueling rumors tonight's rosenstein still has his job he and president trump are scheduled to meet on thursday and rosenstein and trump they've never been close friends just a few days ago a report emerged that rosenstein have allegedly suggested that he should secretly taped his conversations with the president it was also reported that rosenstein raised the idea of invoking the twenty fifth amendment of the us constitution to declare trump unfit for office rosenstein has denied both of those accusations it's important to know that rosenstein is in charge of overseeing the investigation into the trunk campaign's connections to russia his job is also to shield the investigation from any outside influence. our let's take the story now into the u.s. capitol our very own meyer sweeter is on the story for us tonight good evening to you miles so there are so many unknowns about this story what do we know i mean it was reported today that rosenstein plans to quit and that trump will fire him which is true. there's a lot of ifs still wi

what have you heard about rod rosenstein's job security tonight? >> you wouldn't bet on it, but, again, for almost a year we've been talking about rod rosenstein's job security. the president has tweeted about him. he stopped lately. he seems to be focused more on jeff sessions. i know rosenstein is very important in the mueller investigation. don't forget, he's the special counsel's boss. if the special counsel says, you know, i want to subpoena the president, he's got go to rod rosenstein to get permission to do that. i think the president's attorneys believe they have a decent relationship with rod rosenstein. i'm sure they would rather he not be fired and create this kind of crisis, particularly right now at the same time as you're going through the kavanaugh hearings and the question about what happens with judge kavanaugh, but nobody can predict what donald trump is going to do. he's going read this story, and he's going to have to decide whether, "a," he believes "the new york times," which he doesn't normally believe, and, "b," whether he b

rosenstein based on this? >> i don't want to comment on it until i get all the facts. i haven't gotten all the facts. certainly it's being looked at in terms s of what took place. i'm not unsettled about anything. we are looking at it and it's -- he was hired by jeff sessions. i was not involved in that process because they go out and get their own deputies and the people that work in the department. jeff sessions hired him. >> here we are four hours later and no one was fired. there's been no resignation. rosenstein has left the white house holding onto his title as deputy attorney general, at least for now. we also know that the meeting with the president will take place between rosenstein and the president on thursday. our big question today is the same one we asked at the top. what the heck happened at the white house this morning? joining me nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. haley jackson, former chief spokesman for the department and u.s. attorney and department for justice official harry lit

i know you've heard about rod rosenstein's job security tonight. ? >> you wouldn't bet on it, but, again, for almost a year we've been talking about rod rosenstein's job security. the president tweeted about him. he stopped lately. he seems to be focused more on jeff sessions. i know he's very important in the mueller investigation. don't forget, he's the special counsel's boss. if the special counsel says, you know, i want to subpoena the president, he's got go to rod rosenstein to get permission to do that. i think the president's attorneys believe they have a decent relationship with rod rosenstein. i'm sure they would rather he not be fired and create this kind of crisis, particularly right now at the same time as you're going through the kavanaugh hearings and the question about what happens with judge kavanaugh, but nobody can predict what donald trump is going to do. he's going read this story, and he's going to have to decide whether, a, he believes "the new york times," which he doesn't normally believe, and, b, whether he believes a memo wr

deputy attorney general rod rosenstein now he is going to meet with the president on thursday what rosenstein fate after the confusion that we had today. rosenstein still has a job for now we do know about this meeting coming up on thursday so thursday is going to be a very big day here in washington d.c. there's been a lot that sort of tumbled out in the past few days after this new york times article alleging as you said that rosenstein had suggested taping the president we also know that last week after this story broke rosenstein offered his own resignation now it does actually matter whether or not rosenstein is fired or resigned if he resigns what that means is trump gets to nominate the next person and the thing you have to understand about rosenstein is he is the boss of robert muller the man who is overseeing the investigation into this allegedly meddling in the u.s. election by the russian government and rosenstein has really been acting as a human shield between the mole investigation and the trump administration because we know that the trouble ministration is no fan of what's goi

rosenstein will either be fired or forced to resign. so it seems like republicans are very concerned about a variety of things. why aren't they acting on that concern, though? >> well, it's a little lack of courage, but i think we're ahead of ourselves. i will say, don, oscar wild once wrote that the truth is rarely pure and never simple. and so it is with so much in this case, the kavanaugh case, and what's happening with the rosenstein situation. my own guess -- and i am guessing -- i think there's a pretty good chance that president trump will keep rosenstein until after the election. >> yes. >> because he'd be asking for trouble, some within his own party, trouble for the elections. it makes political sense for donald trump to say, well, rosen 1250i rosenstein's going to stay. and as soon as the midterms are over, whether he keeps the house or loses, the house, he lets him go then. that phrase that was used earlier, saturday night massacre by stealth. slow motion saturday night massacre because let's make no mistake. both of these s

so rosenstein has been overseeing it. the solicitor general would step in temporarily to oversee that part, but there's something very important here, and that is the federal vacancies act. that would then, if this all goes through, if the president does fire rosenstein, this would allow the president to pick anyone he wants, anyone who has a senate confirmed position, to be deputy attorney general. right? >> that's exactly right. so it isn't the case that the president just has to accept whatever the justice department has all worked out here in a neat solution. we may not see that come to fruition either. but as we know right now, i haven't checked my phone in the last few seconds, but at least as we understand right now, the current plan. the president could blow up all that and decide he wants someone else entirely. we saw this with mick mulvaney, with shulkin. there are a lot of different moves and the president has quite a bit of power to put in whomever he wants if the person is already senate confirmed. >> this wo

some of the president's allies aren't just calling for rosenstein's ouster. they want mueller gone too. the white house has been uncharacteristically silent on this story. the president is in the air right now, so that may explain that. he'll be landing shortly. and when we get reaction, we will bring it to you asap. he's hunkering down in new jersey this weekend by the way. but, folks, it's possible there's more to this story, a lot more. a senior justice department official is tebling our pete williams that rosenstein made those comments on may 16th of last year, which was a week after president trump fired james comey and a day before rosenstein would appoint bob mueller as the special counsel. this official also says rosenstein was being sarcastic about wearing a wire, and he made those comments while arguing with then acting fbi director andrew mccabe. but "the new york times" says that other officials familiar with his comments believed him to be very serious because rosenstein reportedly followed up by suggesting that other fbi officials could secretly

>>> should rosenstein be fired, yes or no? >> i don't think -- look, the answer, i think, is no for now because right now before an election, without knowing all the facts, until you could actually bring in all of these people to know exactly what rosenstein said, look, i'm not a guy who is going to go on a witch hunt. >> devin nunez there weighing in on concerns that deputy attorney general's rod rosenstein's job could be in jeopardy. he said to hold the fact that he tried to record him and then remove him from office. msnbc national security analyst ned beatty. is the president going to fire rosenstein? >> what's clear is this was a bait to g-- for the president t fire rod rosenstein. but we've seen the president have highly classified, highly sensitive information about the russian probe, setting up a clash between the department of justice. we've seen him ordering doj officials to go to the hill and brief them to get a name of a source behind this. so president trump for months now has been trying to establish the case for

rosenstein's ouster. here on the senate side, another democrat, senator patrick leahy, democrat from vermont says this: saturday night massacres don't need to happen on a saturday. if president trump fires deputy attorney general rod rosenstein or forces his resignation, he will come one giant leap closer to directly meddling with the special counsel's russia investigation. amend that is the big concern among lawmakers about rosenstein leaving. just out impact that it would have on the mullen probe. trace? >> trace: and republicans, peter, what do they say? >> not a whole lot yet we did here in mark meadows, part of his statement says this: under rod rosenstein and jeff sessions the department of justice has had just as much transparency problem as it did under eric holder and loretta lynch the bar for which is extremely low. this is disastrous and it needs to end now. meadows is one of the only republicans to have commented on this so far in addition to mitch mcconnell who you just heard from. however, o

maya: rosenstein still has a job for now. we do know about this meeting on thursday, so thursday is going to be a big day in washington, d.c. there has been a lot that has tumbled out in these past few days after this "new york times" article that alleged that rosenstein had suggested taping the president. after this story broke, we learned that rest -- we learned that rosenstein offered his own resignation. it does actually matter if rosenstein is fired or resigns. if he resigns, that means trump gets to nominate the next person. the thing you have to understand about rosenstein is that he is the boss of robert mueller, the man overseeing this investigation into this alleged meddling by the russian government. rosenstein has really been acting as a human shield between the mueller investigation and the trump administration. we know that the trump administration is no fan of what is going on at the justice department. if rosenstein resigns rather than being fired, it's very possible that trump could install someone who is les

just as rod rosenstein 'sham memo this is the same thing, except that rod rosenstein as oppose to do james comey is on the firing line, so to speak. >> are you thinking a trump support ore leaked the story? >> i don't know who leaked the story. obviously "new york times" has established they have been working on it for many months, but i think the framing of their particular story and the reporting in it, it differs from nbc news and "the washington post," which has the sort from inside the room as opposed to secondary sources and thirdhand sources that are in "new york times" that it was a sarcastic remark. knowing the process through which you would even get a wire or invoke -- one as experted as rod rosenstein knows it's difficult. >> so, joe, there were some concerns immediately after this report came out that rosenstein could be out of a job by the morning, and rick was addressing where he thinking it will go, but president trump asked advisers friday if he should fire rosenstein, and some of those sought to sway him not to make any decision friday night. how would you advise th

you have rosenstein left with those officials. what does your reporting tell us about the csignificance of what happened in that meeting? >> it's so hard to know what to believe because as you said, the justice department is pushing back on this vigorously. senior justice officials are saying it did not happen the way "the new york times" is describing it. they are saying the remark was sarcastic. when you talk to people that know rod, he has a dry wit and people say it's possible that he said something in jest. complicating this picture, "the new york times" reported that there was a second instance where mccabe and rosenstein talked about the president wearing a wire. the sources are pushing back on that. the only thing i can say is there were four career people in the room in addition to those named people that you outlined. so this is a knowable fact. all these people can be interviewed. we can get to the bottom of it. we have andy mccabe's memo. some justice department officials are suggesting he has an ax to grind and he was

rosenstein oversees the russia investigation. mueller reports to rosenstein. so what happens if rosenstein goes? joining me now is the former u.s. attorney general alberto gonzalez, he ran the justice department in the george w. bush administration and worked with brett kavanaugh inside the white house we might add. mr. gonzalez is now the dean at belmont university college of law and author of "true faith and allegiance: a story of service and sacrifice in war and peace." thank you so much for being with us. we do have a lot of knowledge about everything we are talking about this morning. i want to start with the justice department, rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general going to meet with the president on thursday. do you think he could continue to work in this environment after "the new york times" story came out suggesting that he perhaps wanted to tape the president and discuss the 25th amendment to remove him from office? is that a continuing plausible working environment? >> it certainly i think is a difficult one, but let me just say i know rod, r

rosenstein has denied the report and one person who is reportedly in the room said that rosenstein was being sarcastic. just a short time ago, democratic senator kirsten gillibrand tweeting, they must step up to protect the special counsel immediately. we must pass a bipartisan bill to protect the mueller investigation. the american people deserve answers about russian interference in our democracy. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge is live in washington. a lot of moving parts, with the latest? >> i've just been on the phone and a contact to his family with the discussions told fox news that they did focus on the deputy attorney general and whether they felt that he was compromised for a number of reasons and not effective in the position. the first reason is that he is a potential witness in any obstruction case by the special counsel involving the president's decision to fire the fbi director james comey in may of 2017. also, the deputy attorney general is at the heart of the size of abuse allegation allegations. he signed the final surveillance warrant for trump ca

. >>> then rod rosenstein's white house fire drill. >> a meeting with rod rosenstein on thursday when i get back from all of these meetings. >> new questions about why the man overseeing the mueller probe was summoned to the white house today. as lawmakers in both parties raise alarms. >> this looks to me like a slow-moving saturday night massacre. >> "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight in the wake of a second on the record accusation of sexual misconduct against supreme court nominee brett kavanagh, the white house and the republican party have embarked on a coordinated counter offensive to save kavanagh's nomination. and they've done it by casting the alleged victims as part of the smear campaign orchestrated by the left. >> this is starting to feel like a vast left wing conspiracy. >> this is shameful, shameful smear campaign has hit a new low. >> it is amazing to me that these allegations come out of nowhere at the last minute and that they weren't brought up earlier in this process. and it's not untypical for our friends on the other

and now rosenstein. what should the president look forward as a view of the justice department with the removal, whether it's by his own hand or the president's, of rosenstein and with sessions still there? >> well, i think the big part of that, as you know, my frustration has been over the inability for congress to get documents. lou: right. >> the president took a good step on initiating the process for declassification. i think he needs to continue with that. conversations with those that are working through those documents indicate -- there are a number of documents they could release to the american people that have nothing to do with national security. let me give you one example, lou. lou: sure. >> we've got bruce ohr's 302s, the which for those who are viewing tonight, the 302s are kind of a synopsis of an interview that he might have done. well bruce ohr wasn't part of the russia investigation. we had that. rod rosenstein has testified to that. so he was not part of the russia investigation and

when asked about rosenstein's future, the president was vague. >> i'm meet with rod rosenstein on thursday when i get back from all of these meetings. and we'll be meeting at the white house, and we'll be determining what's going on. we want to have transparency. we want to have openness, and i look forward to meet with rod at that time. >> what this all means, rosenstein as of this hour is still overseeing bob mueller's investigation. but his fate remains far from certain. sources telling nbc news that rosenstein spoke to white house counsel don mcgahn over the weekend and made clear in that conversation that he would not resign. rosenstein reportedly said he would not accept being terminated by chief of staff john kelly, according to one person familiar with the conversation and said the president would have to fire him directly. the fire drill that landed him in limbo comes into reaction to an account in the friday "new york times" that suggested as early as may of 2017, rosenstein discussed rallying support from among the president's cabinet from attorney general jeff sessions and then

that are pending against rod rosenstein. if our leadership will not put rod rosenstein in that witness chair so we can get answers, mark meadows and i are ready to call up impeachment and force a vote. lou: brett kavanaugh vowing not to withdraw his name from nomination despite the worst of the radical dems and the national media smeesh campaign. the hearing with his accuser is still scheduled for this thursday. president trump scheduled to address the general assembly tomorrow. on wall street today, stocks were mixed. the dow fell 181 points from its record highs. the nasdaq fell 6. listen to my reports three times a day coast to coast on the salem radio network. a remind tore vote in our poll tonight. the question is, do you think it's time for chuck grassley and all republican leadership to step up and fight back against the radical dimms smear campaign against judge kavanaugh and his family? cast your vote on twitter @loudobbs. we thank you for being with us as we continue to probe the deep state and rampant corruption.

or being fired rosenstein caught up in a "new york times" story last week, alleged that what rod rosenstein had done last year was raise the prospect of the 25th amendment, removing president trump from office against his will in collusion with other members of the investigation. that's the process under the 25th amendment rosenstein allegedly made reference to. he says he doesn't feel there's any cause to remove president trump from office. that got the attention of the white house to say the least there's speculation this step is firing rosenstein in exchange for that story we don't know exactly what's happening right now but we do have a statement from andrew mccabe, the director of the fbi, who is expressing concerns about the future of the mueller investigation into russian collusion. mccabe saying there's nothing more important to the rule of law than protecting the investigation of special counsel mueller. if the rumors of rosenstein are true i am deeply concerned it puts that investigation at risk. so, scott, where we are right now is a moment of uncertainty at the white house, not