bob mueller will give his report. i think the only question is how much of the report becomes public? the democrats on the house will make sure -- >> he's making it public through the indictments. it's not insignificant -- we have to move on but it's not insignificant that matt whitaker did allow the plea deal to go through. he doesn't appear to have interfered. >> by law, matt whitaker is a temporary attorney general. he cannot, under the vacancy act, be nominated by the president to be attorney general now that he's been made acting. he's temporary. bob mueller knows that, too. he knows this is not a guy he'll be answering to for a long time. so, all of those dynamics will let bob mueller be as independent as he wants to be. >> let's talk about president bush, cokie roberts. >> i saw him last at the end of august. he had wonderful spirits about him still. his speaking was not as easy as it once was. i said to him, i understand that you want to jump out of a plane on your 95th birthday. and he said, yes. his wonderfu

it was also bad day for bob mueller. this was a deal. it's deal that prosecutors worked hard for with witnesses. 19 interview sessions. that's a lot that mueller and his team had with general flynn. apparently the general was forthcoming. he was not lying. all seemed to be smooth sailing. when you have a deal, the prosecutor has a deal, and the judge says not necessarily. maybe we don't have a deal at all that i'm going to approve. that's a real issue for the prosecutor. >> when the judge said flynn sold out his country, do you agree with that? >> i don't know what's in the 3023 302s. >> based on what's public? >> i would not reach that judgment. judge sullivan, whom i know and greatly respect. even judge s can fly off the handle. he used the t word, treason. i think as soon as he returned to chambers, he said i've gone too far. i admire him for saying i'm really upset but i shouldn't have said that. >> when judge sullivan tells a defendant that he sold out his country -- >> that judge hates governmental official wrong doing. that kind o

is that what bob mueller is trying to prove? he has done down a path which i would argue is increasingly becoming a distraction. the productivity costs associated with something like this, i will gift administration credit because they have gotten a heck of a lot done. but here is the risk you run. this risk was articulated by supreme court justice bret after thank you in a minnesota law review article? 2009, he wrote that the nation would have been better off if the president hadn't been distracted by the paula jones sexual harassment case and its criminal investigation offshoots. brett kavanaugh spent years and years dig into clinton. i am not saying any president is above reproach or off the hook for anything. but i could question an investigation where there is no oversight and they say just see what you can find. they will just keep digging and digging until they find something which may have nothing to do with what the original scope of the investigation was. joining me with her thoughts, trial attorney misty morris. we ar

but what we do know, it's already a big day for bob mueller. i want to get to it with maya wily, a former counselor to the mayor of new york and a civil prosecutor in the same southern district of new york. john flannery, a former federal prosecutor and as part of our special coverage, nancy gertner who served as a federal judge and brings that perspective to all of what we're learning today. she's a professor at harvard law school. welcome to the panel. maya wily, what do you think is most important in what mueller is choosing to say and why your former colleagues at sdny are coming down so hard on michael cohen and why they put in there that president trump directed one of michael cohen's campaign crimes? >> i think you just said it, ari. i think what's relevant here is you have a -- one, you have a document that makes very clear that there have been significant contact between those in trump's sphere and russia. we actually already knew that. what we see now is the reverse side of it, meaning we have a long history between george papadopoulo

what we do know it's already a big day for bob mueller. i want to get to it with maya wiley, a civil prosecutor in the same southern district of new york. john flannery, a former federal prosecutor, and nancy gerdner, a former federal judge. maya, what do you think is most important in what mueller is choosing to say and why your former colleagues in the southern district are coming down so hard on michael cohen? >> i think you just said it, ari. what's really relevant here is you have a -- one you have a document that makes very clear that there have been significant contact between those in trump's sphere and russia. we actually already knew that. what we see now is the reverse side of it. meaning we have a long history between george papadopoulos -- beginning with george papadopoulos in march of 2016, who understood his job as connections to the russians. and in april and may communicating up the chain with the trump campaign about meeting with russia. but we also find out that trump moscow tower deal was happening at the same time and

but what we do know it is a big day for bob mueller. i want to get to it with myra wiley, and nancy gertner who has served as a federal judge and bringing that perspective. she is a professor at harvard law school. why your former colleagues are coming down on michael cohen, and why they also put in there president trump directed one of michael cohen's campaign crimes. >> i think you just said it, ari, what is relevant is one, you have a document that makes very clear that there have been significant contact between those in trump's spheres and russia. we actually already knew that. what we see now is the reverse side of it. meaning we have a long history between george papadopoulos, beginning with george papadopoulos in march in 2016 who understood his job and in april and may communicated about the meeting in russia. we found out trump moscow tower deal was happening at the same time and the russians were reaching out to the trump world. there was lots of contact with russia even before this document. and what we're seeing is there is

>> ierind it hard to believe that bob mueller will be simply satisfied with written sponses from donald trump on a small sliver of the investigation. robert: roz, great here at the table. you've been following coh for so long. you know how valuable he really is to robert mueller investigation. what does your reporting tell you about that question. >> well, i we knowwas revealed yesterday that he sat down with bob mueller's tm believe seven separate times just in the last few months. so there's aot of information. i mean, this is a guy who was really donald trump's sort of right hand man within t trump organization. had a lot ool iment with all the dirtiest secrets of the trump organization. obviously we've seen involved deeply with the payments to women prior to the election to silence them. but also just a lot of donald trump's overseas international business expansion. so he's a guy with a wealth ofl kne. the problem is, he's also a guy like so many people in trump world who has a tendency t exaggerate and to lie. and so you can be sure that bob mueller is gathering every piece of pap

tell us about where bob mueller is going with this entirein stigation. michael: it shows that he continues to go deeper and deeper inside that inner circle of the president and really trying to figure out what was going on during the campaign. but i think more importantly, he's continuing to tell the story of the different pieces of the pie of what was going on in the summer of 2016. the russians were reaching a time-out t meet with his -- reaching out to try to mee with his son. they were trying to undermine our democracy. and the were also trying to do business with the president and trying to lay out for the average person in this country through these documents the history and the story of this t give us a greater understanding of it. robert: the president's defending his conduse, all t different conversations. he began the day with a series of tweet mocking the mueller probe and defending his pursuit of the business in moscow. he said i continue to run my business very cool. but mostrats have sounded the alarm iouncluding intelligence committee rank

mueller can be bob mueller and continuing to do his job, lay out the facts and gather the evidence and present that to the american people and simultaneously the house democrats will pursue our for the people agenda, focused on kitchen table and pocketbook issues like lowering healthcare costs for everyday americans. >> as you know, congressman, mueller recommended that michael flynn serve no jail time citing his extensive early cooperation with the investigators. do you think that's a message to other witnesses, a message to go ahead and cooperate? >> well, certainly a tactic that we've seen used by prosecutors all throughout the country in regular cases that are brought before our court system, and in this particular instance if a witness has provided substantial assistance, as bob mueller appears to be indicating michael flynn has done, then the recommendation is often for a lenient sentence. it's quite extraordinary that you would have the trump national security adviser, who as a result of that position and the breach of trust that took place by at least pleading guilty to lying t

jim, i have a different approach than my friend bob mueller. i believe there is a public accountability function that you should say what you can say consistent with with grand jury secrecy and the general confidentiality of the investigation. he has chosen not to do that. i don't know how he's been able to do that because, as alice will attest we had the prets camped outside our house and office. but with what i describe in the book is a couple of real bone-headed mistakes. remember la guarda when i make a mistake it's a bute? i finally then agreed to a couple of interviews. and both totally backfired. one caused the very distinguished chief judge of our district court who i miss, she's deceased, norma johnson was a great human being. and fair-minded jurist. when she read the p piece in brill's content, i was then subject to a pretty thorough going. i personally. investigation into whether i had vile yate 646 e. i hadn't. in the fullness of time it was vindicated. but you have to be very cautious. so i think perhaps bob mueller, indful of that

i don't care how much integrity bob mueller has. he was too involved in the picking of himself by rosenstein, and rosenstein is a witness, it is just too close. and you have these lawyers that are hired that had worked for something to do with the clintons, or were contributors to hillary, it just stunk as impropriety. and the 14th and the fifth amendment give us due process. the supreme court said due process equals fundamental fairness. when you are going after the president, it is important that this appears to be fundamentally fair. right off the bat, when it came out that you had hillary people or whatever they described them, democrats against trump, you lose 50% of the people. i think there is a duty with due process, when it is to this level, the level of going after the president, that it has to be caesar's wife. be a departure, but i think this is a hard-core conflict. that is what i don't get with rod rosenstein. he is going to get a report looking into the firing of james comey. he was one of the critical players. whethe

i think perhaps bob mueller is mindful of that. starr made some boneheaded mistakes in talking to the media. the best thing to do is have a press spokesperson who never comments. >> it seems like there's no perfect answer to that. it is sort of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. you get hit no matter what your decision is on that one. anyway, i want to thank the panel for being here today and thank all of you. i learned a lot today. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] journal,'s washington live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. wednesday morning, emily and american enterprise institute benedict discuss the next steps for the affordable care act after a judge in texas ruled it unconstitutional. u.s. news & world report's lauren camera talks about the federal investigation on safety reports and what it means for school discipline. be sure t

mueller. >> he enlisted bob mueller because he knew bob mueller had nonpartisan reputation in washington. >> reporter: that was then. now trump compares mueller to joe mccarthy, and a trump ally warns there is trouble ahead. >> i think the report is going to be devastating to the president. >> reporter: after months of haggling, team trump has provided written answers to mueller's answers on tow collusion and convinced trump's problems will be more political than legal. >> eventually the decision here is going to be impeachment -- not impeachment. members are going to be conformed a lot by their constituents so our jury as should be is the american people. >> reporter: now that jury awaits mueller, who is already letting his work speak for itself. as his office wrote to the court recently, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. >> bob mueller believes in american institutions, so i think he wants to set the institutions up to make the best decisions that they can. >> reporter: lately, we have been getting a glimpse into mueller's world through his detailed cou

report on bob mueller. along with his relationship with james comey. (burke) parking splat. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >>got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today >>and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team... >>the team? gooo team.... know what's better than overnight shipping? free one hour pickup when you order online... or on our app. at office depot officemax ♪ ♪ this holiday season, families near you need your help. visit redcross.org now to donate. >>> we're looking at robert mueller's investigation and how his life and career prepared him for this moment. gloria borger picks up her report with a look at mueller's history with james comey. by 2004, mueller was running the fbi when his phone rang. it was james comey, then deputy attorney general. it was the first time mueller and comey would find themselves in a very controversial legal drama. >> i was very u

but it would not at all surprise me if, when bob mueller drops what i think we all sense is going to be a large overarching conspiracy indictment, you know, michael flynn may very well be one of the unindicted coconspirators who's in there for narrative purposes and to, you know, show the reader of that indictment and ultramately a jury, if it comes to that, how michael flynn's piece fits in with everybody else's piece. >> thank you both. stay close. hot standby continues, as we wait for the flynn memo, another reported mueller target in the news, roger stone said he will plead the gift following the president, getting his back on twitter. congressman ted lou on that story ahead. r room at a lower rate, hilton is like... we're gonna match that rate and give you an extra 25% off. what would travel sites do if you found a better price? that's not my problem, it's your problem. get outta here! whoa, i really felt that performance. it's just acting, i'm really good at it. book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% o

. >> he enlisted bob mueller because he knew that bob mueller had this incredible nonpartisan reputation in washington. >> reporter: that was then. now trump compares mueller to joe mccarthy and a trump ally warns there is trouble ahead. >> i think the report is going to be devastating to the president. >> reporter: after months of haggling, team trump has provided written answers to mueller's questions on collusion and is convinced trump's problems will be more political than legal. >> eventually the decision here is going to be impeach/not impeach. members of congress are going to be informed a lot by their statist constituents. so the jury is the american people. >> reporter: and now that jury awaits mueller who is already letting his work speak for itself. as his office wrote to the court recently, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. >> bob mueller believes in an american institution. so i think he wants to set the institutions up to make the best decisions that they can. >> reporter: lately we've been getting a xwlim himseglimpse ins world through the

but it would not at all surprise me if, when bob mueller drops what i think we all sense is going to be a large overarching conspiracy indictment, you know, michael flynn may very well be one of the unindicted coconspirators who's in there for narrative purposes and to, you know, show the reader of that indictment and ultramately a jury, if it comes to that, how michael flynn's piece fits in with everybody else's piece. >> thank you both. stay close. hot standby continues, as we wait for the flynn memo, another reported mueller target in the news, roger stone said he will plead the gift following the president, getting his back on twitter. congressman ted lou on that story ahead. today is the day you're going to get motivated... get stronger... get closer. start listening today to the world's largest selection of audiobooks on audible. and now, get more. for just $14.95 a month, you'll get a credit a month good for any audiobook, plus two audible originals exclusive titles you can't find anywhere else. if you don't like a book, you can exchange it any time, no questions asked. automa

four times bob mueller has delayed michael flynn's sentencing. what does that tell you? you would think that means he's been really valuable. would that be right? >> it could mean two very different things. one, it could mean that he's been very valuable across a wide range of this investigation, or it could mean that he has just had unique insight into one very specific and important part of the investigation as it continues to unfold. remember, we've seen this story play out in a couple of different surprise twists as these cases have unfolded. george papadopoulos took one of these plea agreements and cooperation agreements and we thought that he had been a key figure, that he had provided key information. the sentencing memorandum came out for papadopoulos and it turned out that he had provided virtually nothing of any value whatsoever. >> right. he, of course, served his, what was it, 12, 10, days in jail. >> he is in prison right now in wisconsin, out next week. >> right, right. john dean, what is your take on this flynn filing tonight? >> w

what did you learn about bob mueller that might be helpful? >> we sat in a bus stuck in traffic and bob mueller ran the fbi starting week of 9/11 and rolling into 2013 when jim comey took over. and what terrorizes president trump is that he supports laws that are lies and that is striking to the heart of what trump has done as president and what he represents. >> what drives him? what is driving bob mueller and the thinking? how does the background influence that? >> he loves investigations. >> really? he enjoys the minutia of the investigation? >> yes, any reporter could understand that. and investigations beget investigation, and what we are seeing here is the methodical work of a man who if he throws the book at trump, that the book will include the constitution and not just the criminal code. >> mueller worked in the bush administration when comey was acting attorney general and president trump has asserted on a number of occasions that bob mueller and jim comey are bffs and go way back. and this is a tweett from the summer. mueller is com

bush has ratcheted up his attacks on bob mueller. it's about to get worse, you can believe that from the white house. >> his attack on bob mueller, also, mika, his attack on the free press, tweeting in all caps last night the media is the enemy of the people. around the same time that cnn had yet another bomb scare. just a few weeks after pipe bombs were sent. around to a lot of his enemies. fake news, the enemy of the people. that is exactly what -- though donald trump's name did not come up last night, that is exactly the autocratic tendencies we're seeing in countries across the globe that really posing a threat. >> well, here we go. >> the democratic foundation. >> in new documents that are scheduled to be released today, could shed new light on robert mueller's russia probe. prosecutors for the southern district of northern and the special counsel's office both have until 5:00 p.m. tonight to deliver sentencing memos concerning president trump's former fixer michael cohen. the documents are expected to detail cohen's cooperation

secondly, we don't know what bob mueller knows. we know there were 87 communications between the campaign and people in russia during the height of the campaign in 2016. we know that bob mueller has had a couple of people explaining those communications to him. paul manafort until he stopped and rick gates who may still be explaining them to him. general flynn who explained them to him in such a way that they reduced his recommended jail sentence and jail time down to zero. something the feds never do. >> shepard: you say collusion isn't a crime. conspiracy is a crime. a minute ago you said there's already a conspiracy and it involves the president. that's what you said. >> that's what the judge said last week when he sentenced michael cohen. >> shepard: he said what again? >> i don't know that he used conspiracy. >> shepard: so our viewers understand this is not speculation, this is from the writing of the court. >> the trial judge said verbally the president of the united states orchestrated and paid for this crime. referring for

he cannot fire bob mueller. that's the saturday night massacre. >> he can direct fire someone to fire bob mueller. >> it's a big difference. >> the point is it's not -- >> the senator job -- >> the letter is a call, jennifer to not be pass i have. that when people ask you what things mean don't say it's hard to know, i don't know. we'll have to wait and see because you won't have time once this report comes out, you have to be ready to defend things and make statements of intention. i'm not saying remove the president. i don't know how that happens on the facts as we understand them but you have to be ready to lead so don't sit by. >> there is an argument, chris, too, i know this was directed at the senate from former senators but there's a story out today that the president is worried about what is going to happen in the house and discussion. >> with good reason. they're doing a lot of saber rattling. >> this letter could be an indication to make sure the house allows mueller to do his job as well. you don't wa

but the one person who knows where this investigation will go is bob mueller. he's not showing his cards were talking so we will have to see. >> katie: predictions on how much longer he has to go? >> tom: i would say the early part of next year. >> melissa: that's a long time pay that's a lot to talk about. we'll be back on noon eastern tomorrow. here's harris. >> harris: we continue our coverage they pray the president's former personal lawyer has found out his punishment. we go "outnumbered" over time paid i'm harris faulkner. of all of the associates and allies who have been either investigated or charged, none has been closer to the president of than michael cohen. a federal judge has now sentenced cohen to 36 months. that happened in the short little while, three years after he pleaded guilty to multiple charges included lying to congress and paying off the president's alleged mistresses in violation of campaign finance law. his attorney

we got a lot of detail in the bob mueller memo about the moscow project. and then, and it goes through specifically and tom walked us through. and then it notes three other areas where cohen was cooperative. and it feels like the yada yada episode of "seinfeld". they're leaving out a whole bunch of stuff here. it says, second, cohen provided the special prosecutor with useful information concerning certain discreet russia related matters core to its investigation that he obtained by virtue of his contact with the trump organization. he provided information with contact with people at the white house. cohen described circumstances of circulating his response to the congressional inquiries. bottom line it's like he told us a lot of information but we're not going to tell you what he told us. >> this is redaction without the black magic marker. this is deliberate vagueness. we should look at this as significant. for two reasons. one is it was worthy of mention. mueller wanted those things in there specifically without black magic marker covering it. and then

also today donald trump tweeted, bob mueller who's a much different man than people think don't want the truth, they only

. >> he enlisted bob mueller because he knew that bob mueller had this incredible nonpartisan reputation in washington. >> reporter: that was then. now trump compares mueller to joe mccarthy, and a trump ally warns there's trouble ahead. >> i think the report is going to be devastating to the president. >> reporter: after months of haggling, team trump has provided written answers to mueller's questions on collusion and is convinced trump's problems will be more political than legal. >> eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. members of congress, democrat and republican, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. so our jury, as it should be, is the american people. >> reporter: now that jury awaits mueller, who is already letting his work speak for itself. as his office wrote to the court recently, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. >> bob mueller believes in american institutions. so i think he wants to set the institutions up to make the best decisions that they can. >> laltd we've been getting a glimpse into mueller

. >> he enlisted bob mueller because he knew that bob mueller had this incredible nonpartisan reputation in washington. >> reporter: that was then. now trump compares mueller to joe mccarthy, and a trump ally warns there's trouble ahead. >> i think the report is going to be devastating to the president. >> reporter: after months of haggling, team trump has provided written answers to mueller's questions on collusion and is convinced trump's problems will be more political than legal. >> eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. members of congress, democrat and republican, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. so our jury is the american people. >> reporter: now that jury awaits mueller, who is already letting his work speak for itself. as his office wrote to the court recently, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. >> bob mueller believes in american institutions. so i think he wants to set the institutions up to make the best decisions that they can. >> a big night ahead, the '80s starts right now. >>> it's a time of

and the rest of the iceberg is in bob mueller's office. do you believe that to be true, michael, there is still a lot more we have not learned? >> look, you know, we can speculate on this, you know, for hours and days. a lot -- there has been a lot of speculation. and unfortunately, you know, look, there's a paradox to this. mueller, as garrett well knows, has been absolutely ironclad in not leaking to the press. and as a result, there's been a lot of stories in the press that have speculated, that have relied on, you know, problematic sourcing -- >> what about "the guardian" story? saying he met with assange? were they wrong? >> there is no corroboration for that. manafort's denial was pretty strong. but that's not the only one. look, i mean, you know, it is, as i said -- i thought the cohen plea deal was incredibly significant. but also it's worth noting what was not in there. michael cohen had testified as well that he had no knowledge of the trump tower deal, and could not and had no knowledge that trump had no knowledge -- any knowled

gene, bob mueller speaks deliberately. he seems to want us to know there's more that he's not sharing now. what do you think he's doing here in that blended message? >> robert mueller's playing three dimensional chess and the trump team is playing tic tac toe. rudy giuliani said this is all butkis. what i say is holy cow. the number you have to focus on is 19. you also have to focus on the phrase non-exhaustive list. the 19 refers to what i call the meetings and debriefings. it could be many the grand jury. those lasted probably about three hours, maybe more. that's about 60 hours of information provided to various parts of the department of justice including probably the tax division where i used to roll. the phrase non-exhaustive list is holy cow because it's non-exhausti non-exhaustive. with the utmost respect to that congressman, i don't think he knows how to read and he's not a prosecutor. this is an exclusive, destructive, brilliant memo that was filed by mueller team, period. >> you don't have to be a lawyer. i'm go

what is he like every morning for more than a year i got to take intelligence materials to bob mueller as fbi director. it was not a good time because that meant getting up at 1:00 o'clock in the morning every day to prepare the briefing and work on it and getting ready to answer questions you think your customer would ask you as we call them. i briefed him for more than a year and never got to the point i got through a whole week or even a whole day without having a question he was that good to pick apart the details of the analysis to breakdown the logic where is the evidence to back up that assertion cracks at first i was bringing back five or six questions a day that by the end i was much better maybe 90 percent at predicting what he would ask getting to know him but i could never keep up with him. with a strategic and tactical level beyond most people had the opportunity to work with. the other thing that i noticed despite some claims he is showboating to get attention through this process. that is not the man i got to know there were many opportunities even after 911 when the fbi

but in a way it's a setback for bob mueller as well. you've got a deal and you want to go for it and you want it to go smoothly and it did not today. >> why is too tha a setback? what impact does it have going forward? >> it shows the judge was not prepared to go forward or at least there was fear that he was not going to september recommendation. prosecutors look to judges to listen to their recommendation with respect, and the judge apparently may not have been ready to accept bob mueller's recommendation. >> i guess i was trying to figure out why it would be a setback for mueller. would it be because if mueller's trying to dangle a deal in front of someone else they'll be like you know, what you promised me no jail time but all these judges, they're not believing you. >> i think that's a little remote. you just work these cases so that you have a deal and you want the deal to be consummated and you want it to go smoothly in correlate. that means that the other people who you're working with, other witnesses, can have confidence in yo

mueller's charge to look at collusion, then it's under bob mueller's jurisdiction. here's where we go. i'm about to bring in experts who are all over the story. mueller acts by the book. if he thinks it's single corruption he'll hand it to the sec. but if he finds evidence it was part of the larger pot you can bet he'll stay on it. i'm joined by anthony consider maier and paul butler. anthony, you brought this plot to light. what do you think is important about the story now. >> michael cohen directly asked the kremlin about this. we reported first he went to the assistant, dmitry peskov, this wasn't a harebrained scheme with him and an associate. this was with the kremlin. it's instructive to look into the future or at least begin to understand where the reporting is going to go. we know right now that president trump knew about this deal, we know that at least ivanka trump, we've reported in the past, knew about the moscow deal. it would be highly unlikely for those three figures, donald, ivanka and don junior not to have understood it was on the table is hard for

they are seeing a man of bob mueller's pedigree make this case that something is wrong here. something smells. we're saying good bai -bye to mo made integrity his lifelong mission. >> i think they were listening. i'm not sure they found the courage to act. i think they know what the noble thing to do is. they are finding way to do it but they haven't found the courage to do that yet. maybe he's introducing a little courage too. restraint and respect. i'm not sure they got there on the restraint side and i still think they learning on the respect side. >> the story of an rnc chairman, george bush, basically not just being a knee jerk defender of nixon in that moment. that in itself today would be considered courageous. >> that's right. it's worth remembering that mueller is from bush's world. st. paul school athlete of the year. princeton marine corps officer. university of virginia law school, the thiwhole thing. the biggest puzzle to me and maybe someone has intuitions about it is the whole mueller probe. he got 16 hard charging, type a personalities to get off their fast tr

bob mueller that has advantage of far more information that would allow him to vet whether what these witnesses told our committee was true or not. >> do you believe that? >> yes. we want to put it in the hands of people that can do something about it. we believe with the 2020 election approaching the russians just as eager to participate. they pointed out they may have other compromising information. we want to do all we can to make sure that no adversary is able to interfere in an election again. >> in terms of how it may have the trump family representative ted lou tweeted let me ask ivanka about the trump tower moscow. oh right. she blocked me because my questions bother her. how do you interpret that tweet? do you think it should inves gait with all of the efforts during the campaign? >> we should look at any family member who is attempting to work with the russians and was not forthcoming about it. we know that ivanka was a part of the dealings. he bragged about being able to get ivanka to sit in putin's chair. a number of family members did not minimize their dealings with russ

but bob mueller is not investigating trump tower moskow. he's not investigating the trump organization. he is investigating russian collusion. and there has to be a materiality component to these false statements. so they have to have influenced mueller's investigation. so the big question is how does the trump tower moskow connect with russian collusion? that sort of remains open. and then there's this issue which connects them to a little bit, and particularly don junior in that june 2016 meeting, which is sanctions. if you need to remove the sanctions in order to do the trump tower deal, then don junior talking to russians in june of 2016 about sanctions becomes a lot more close -- a lot closer to what bob mueller is looking at. >> and you're using a little bit of legal jargon there talking about materiality. what you're saying is it can't be a random insignificant lie. it's got to be an important back to the collusion. so what are you getting at there? >> that the trump tower moskow and what michael cohen lied about has to have been cap

bob mueller will not lay out his case in the context of sentencing. he will say a high level what happened, may get some news nuggets but this will not be a full reveal by bob mueller. we are looking to find out what went on. i'm totally perplexed why manafort says he will cooperate with mueller and apparently according to mueller lie to him. it doesn't make sense and i'm curious to see what happened. shannon: the president's legal team in the mueller team, this idea they are looking into obstruction of justice. we have a report from cnn that says in the hectic eight days after donald trump fired james comey deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and top officials viewed trump as a leader who needed to be reined in. they discussed a range of options including the idea of rosenstein wearing a wire, ultimately then, andrew mccabe opened and obstruction of justice investigation even before robert mueller was appointed. your reaction? >> sounds like some documents will be filling out the people try to draw the same -- this is all information we heard befo

in it smart of bob mueller not to be letting anrmation out? the only time we hear from him is when he turns up in the apple store in washington, major headline if he's spotted in public.ak should he be sg to us more? ken: [laughter] it is a judgment call. i felt that i did have a public information obgation. the danger is when ye speak about vestigation, if you cross the line and talk about grand jury information, you e going to be accused of a crime. i was accused of a crime. it is safer to just say mum's, the woay tuned, we will tell you when we want to tell you. that is his style, that is his judgment. but i do think that powerunalls for accobility, and to the extent possible and consistent with the rules, i err he set -- the side of providing formation that i think t american public wants to know. this is especially true in this investation because we are talking about was there actual collusion, aimonspiracy, a al conspiracy. but collusion is not a crime in and of itself. were about the ultimate kind of question in a democracy as to wheth

katty: ken starr, one of the annoying thingabout the bob mueller investigation is he won't talk to us journalists. i was here in washington when you were investigating the clintons and you did do interviews with the press and a lot of information came out of your probe.is t smart of bob mueller not to be letting any information out?ly the ime we hear from him is when he turns up in the apple store in washington, majorf headline's spotted in public. should he be speaking to us more? ken: [laughter] it is a judgment call. i felt that i did have a public information obligation. the danger is when you speak about the investigation, if you cross thline and talk about grand jury information, you are going to be accused of a crime. i was accused of a crime. it is safer to just say mum's the word, stay tuned, we will tell you when we want to tell you. that is his style, that is his judgment.t budo think that power calls for accountability, and to t p extentsible and consistent with the rules, i err on the set -- the side of providing information that i think the american public wants to know.

bob mueller is not investigating collusion bob mueller is investigating trump. so far from papadopoulos to flynn to cohen to manafort. you still see places like cnn saying the walls are closing in. yet, we have seen information and stuff coming out from the special counsel charges against all these gentlemen. nothing on russian collusion. we haven't frankly seen anything on obstruction of justice. the big ones we thought would come out. this is a criminal probe against guys that did shady things because they had access to foreign markets business opportunities. you read the actual cohen memo, it's all about taxi medallions in new york city and chicago. evading taxes. all the things you laid out, ed, nothing about donald trump. nicole: american people want to know what does this all mean when it comes to our president? the bottom line is not a lot came out of it you know, bongino said that bob mueller is investigating collusion. or he is not investigating collusion but he is he was investigating he is not finding it there is something there to these memos but it'

he says bob mueller and his angry democrats are out of control. reports of migrants jumping the border between the u.s. and mexico as the u.s. increases pressure' on congress to fund the border wall. dr. sebastian gorka is joining me straight ahead. chaos in the streets of paris. violent protests are getting out of control as the french rage against the

. >> he enlisted bob mueller because he knew that bob mueller had this incredible nonpartisan reputation in washington. >> reporter: that was then. now trump compares mueller to joe mccarthy, and a trump ally warns there's trouble ahead. >> i think the report is going to be devastating to the president. >> reporter: after months of haggling, team trump has provided written answers to questions on collusion and is convinced trump's problems will be more political than legal. >> eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. members of congress, democrat and republican, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. so our jury is the american people. >> reporter: now that jury awaits mueller, who is already letting his work speaks for itself as his office wrote to the court recently, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. >> bob mueller believes in american institutions. so i think he wants to set the institutions up to make the best decisions that they can. >> stay with cnn for all the latest developments in the mueller investigation.

because you know bob mueller. >> if i was in his shoes i would look at that. >> you would? >> yes. >> do you see, and i'm not asking you for the things you can't get into, but when you see the way these prosecutions have moved forward, and you have cohen coughing up more, corsi, stone, do you see bob mueller moving towards the heart and the conclusion of this probe? >> it's hard to say. look, he's done an awful lot. you have congressman gowdy, who spent several years trying to get an investigation, spent tens of millions on benghazi and came up with nothing, and in a fraction of that time, bob woodward has come up with 30 indictments. that's an interesting dynamic to these hearings. >> you're saying he's proven much more effective than the house republicans? >> indisputable, frankly. >> what does james comey do when this is all over? because other than the book, he's been pretty quiet. >> he's doing a lot of speaking, speaks a lot about the book, he's on a speaking tour. look, he takes life in five-year chunks. there's always a new endeavor. i think he has a lot to share wi

then we get into the question about why bob mueller has not indicted one of the three internet research agency employees that travelled to the united states in the summer of 2016. this is -- he indicted two of the three. he obviously knows who this third person is because he knows who this person filed their expenses to at the internet research agency, but this points to possibly does bob mueller have a cooperator inside the internet research agency, and sort of why is this person's fingerprints on the attack but not in the indictment? then we have a bombshell report that "the guardian" put out last waoe week that paul manafort may have met with julian assange, the founder of wikileaks, over -- perhaps even multiple times during the campaign and before the campaign. then there are all sorts of breadcrumbs and unanswered questions in this investigation that we still have to get to. >> garrett, thank you for laying that out. >> they are such important questions. i want to start with the first one you brought up because it's fascinating to so many people. carrie, i will slthrow this oneo y

what bob mueller actually does, and rob mueller also served in uniform. bob mueller also bled for this country in the united states military, what he points out in this document, first he praises flynn's service and says this is someone who is the most distinguished witness we've talked to in our investigation, of all the witnesses, this person has served his country well, but then he notes, and that means he should have known better, someone who was in that high-profile position, someone who served and led others in the united states military, who swore an oath to protect this nation, defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic and uphold the investigation, should have known that lying is wrong. it's something he no doubt commanded of his people that were under him, his troops and he sat before fbi agents and lied to them. it's not a one-time slip-up. being in the fbi, when this was going down, there was largely a question, we've seen the reports that flynn was talking with the russian ambassador, and in the united states, it is obscure law calle

bob mueller in washington d.c. and the federal prosecutors in the southern district of northern here in manhattan. >> shepard: and we haven't heard any russia stuff. >> well, the russia stuff did come out in some of the things that michael cohen said. the president denied communications with russians. they said that michael cohen and the president were negotiating through michael cohen with vladimir putin during the republican primary season. is that a crime that negotiation? no. but it's profoundly contrairy t the president's representations and puts the president in the vicinity communicating with a foreign power in order to obtain something of value, permission to build a hotel. >> thanks, judge. >> you're welcome. >> shepard: how would you like it if your colleagues got together and had a secret vote about whether you should keep your job? essentially that's what's happening right now in great britain. lawmakers are deciding whether to keep or remove theresa may. it's a tradition that we don't have here in amer