gorbachev, tear down this wall. that would put gorbachev in a difficult position with his own politiboro. bret: reagan was widely seen as a warmonger. this wouldn't help, and wouldn't reagan be raising false expectations. >> you don't call for tearing down a wall. that's permanent. who knew of tearing down the wall. probably not soon and probably not in our lifetime. >> he didn't know how and when, they felt it was coming and it was time for him to speak up. bret: so reagan kept the line, telling an aide, boys at state are going to kill me, but it's the right thing to do. >> general secretary gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the soviet union and eastern europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate. mr. gorbachev, open this gate. [cheers] mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. [ cheers ] >> he was a man of commitment, of vision, of purpose, he knew it needed to be said in what way in that place and time, it was truly a moment of destiny. when you look at what could have not happened

partner was mikhail gorbachev. but gorbachev wanted to be neutral. bush always wanted a unified germany and a very disciplined manner, moved gorbachev towards that position. >> in a major concession, gorbachev agreed to the western position that a unified germany is free to join nato. >> once you solved the german problem, you removed the basic source of tension between the two the superpowers in the cold war. >> this is the big photo opportunity, the important picture that president bush came all this way to get at this moment, gorbachev chooses to give president bush his present. the present was a soviet cartoonist' depiction of two presidents as boxers having just knocked out the cold war with the world as referee. >> george bush and brent scowcroft, his national security adviser liked to fish together and one summer, they were fishing and they were thinking about what kind of world would emerge after all the dominos had fallen. it's very rare that the world is so fluid and flexible that world leaders can think

gorbachev that surprised you? >> guest: one thing that was quite interesting to me was more about bush and the idea of giving oral history, interviews as a historian i find both wonderful and frustrating in many ways because people have a marvelous ability to forget the details and the chronology and remember the end result and to push it back to the beginning. how many times have you been in a conversation with someone that says you know what really matters, that's the end result is the first time i started talking about his concerns about gorbachev in 1989, and i have boxes and boxes of memos from his administration saying we don't know that we can trust this guy, he said at that time to me i always trusted gorbachev, he seemed trustworthy and i think the reason was because he had come to consider by that .20 years later gorbachev is not only trustworthy that an actual personal friend and once you're a friend of his, that is a category that you must have always been. >> host: c-span: talking about his closeness

did he -- did your father describe his relationship with gorbachev? who suffered through some tough times after they made history together. he did. this is all off the record at "wall street journal"? [laughter] those cameras are there because it's off the record. that's what i thought. [laughter] they had a great relationship. they had a, they had a -- i think they had a personal, they had personal connectivity, and i think gorbachev respected my dad and believed he was doing what he thought was right. they didn't have the relationship we were talking about it, the mulroney and john major relationship, which was a personal relationship that went way beyond their time in public office. but they've maintained contact. in fact, i was, i thought that president gorbachev was coming, but apparently, at the last moment, couldn't make it. and he went to the opening of the library. he watched my dad jump out of an airplane, like, a little different for someone from the soviet union, i think. [laughter] so they had a close enough relationship to respect one an

did he -- did your father describe his relationship with gorbachev? who suffered through some tough times after they made history together. >> he did. this is all off the record at "wall street journal"? [laughter] >> those cameras are there because it's off the record. >> that's what i thought. [laughter] they had a great relationship. they had a, they had a -- i think they had a personal, they had personal connectivity, and i think gorbachev respected my dad and believed he was doing what he thought was right. they didn't have the relationship we were talking about it, the mulroney and john major relationship, which was a personal relationship that went way beyond their time in public office. but they've maintained contact. in fact, i was, i thought that president gorbachev was coming, but apparently, at the last moment, couldn't make it. and he went to the opening of the library. he watched my dad jump out of an airplane, like, a little different for someone from the soviet union, i think. [laughter] so they had a close enough relationship to respe

and i think gorbachev's - - thought my dad was doing was right. but that went way beyond their time in public office. but they try to maintain contact. but apparently at the last minute he could not make it but he went to the opening of the library you watch my dad about of the airplane's they had a close enough relationship to respect one another if you don't believe your word is your bond then it's hard to trust someone. >> it is obvious to everybody for those of us that have written about his life it is a life of incredible achievement what do you think he considered his greatest achievement quick. >> he would say that his children came? home particularly at the end of the last 25 years of his life what gave him purpose was giving back to others and then i am just giving myself therapy. [laughter] and with my brothers relationship and when my brother eulogize is him tomorrow and that starts with an incredible source. he could've been thinking how great he was with my limited success one - - success grandkids are doing stuff and the other thing

his back as he tried to manage what was going to be the downfall of the soviet union, gorbachev may not have believed that, but i think my dad understood it. he could have done it -- he could have gotten on the wall. i saw lesley stahl on one of the cbs morning shows -- she's kind of forgotten like a lot of the elderly reporters are forgotten. every chance they got, they would drill another belly button into my dad. now she's like he was so good about -- like sticking a mic, in the oval office, why aren't you there and show your concern. my dad realized if you do these things, the relationships you had with gorbachev and others would have sent a horrible signal we didn't have his back in a situation where he had very few options. those personal relationships as it relates to the operation desert storm, can you imagine 200,000 american troops and infidels in saudi arabia? can you imagine china and russia supporting a coalition of the willing today? those were difficult things to do, and i don't think you do it in the abstract. you have to do it by having human connections and, you kn

. >> he always made gorbachev feel the equal. >> and in the end, gorbachev was essentially removed from office when the country was dissolved and the first phone call he made was to george bush. >> i said to president bush, i said what was this conversation? this is extraordinary that in the last waning moments of the soviet union, gorbachev called you. and typical of george bush, he hadn't thought much of it. he's such a humble man that he had really not seen the significance of that. >> gorbachev called him to say good-bye and to say how much it meant to him that they had had this relationship over the last couple of years, and offered to help in any way, and president bush said my horseshoe pit is always open, mikhail. come any time you want. ...and i found out that i'm from the big toe of that sexy italian boot! so this holiday season it's ancestrydna per tutti! order your kit now at ancestry.com even when nothing else is. gopi's found a way to keep her receipts tidy, (brand vo) snap and sort your expenses with quickbooks and find, on average, $4,628 in tax savings. quickbooks. back

. >> he always made gorbachev feel the equal. >> and in the end gorbachev was essentially removed from office when the country was dissolved. the first phone call he made was to george bush. >> i said to president bush, i said what was this conversation? this is extraordinary that in the last waning moments of the soviet union, gorbachev called you. and typical of george bush, he hadn't thought much of it. he's such a humble man that he'd really not seen the significance of that. >> gorbachev called him to say good-bye, and to say how much it meant to him that they'd had this relationship over the last couple of years and offered to help in any way. and president bush said my horseshoe pit is always open, mikhail, come any time you want. . if i built a van, it would carry my entire business. i'd make it available in dozens, make that thousands of configurations. it would keep an eye on my fleet. [ beeping ] and an eye out for danger. with active brake assist. if i built a van, i'd make it available in diesel and gas. and i'd build it right here, in south carolina. introducing the all n

. >> he always made gorbachev feel the equal. >> and in the end gorbachev was essentially removed from office when the country was dissolved. the first phone call he made was to george bush. >> i said to president bush, i said what was this conversation? this is extraordinary that in the last waning moments of the soviet union, gorbachev called you. and typical of george bush, he hadn't thought much of it. he's such a humble man that he'd really not seen the significance of that. >> gorbachev called him to say good-bye, and to say how much it meant to him that they'd had this relationship over the last couple of years and offered to help in any way. and president bush said my horseshoe pit is always open, mikhail, come any time you want. where nothing stands between you and your best friends. ♪ but before you do that, you should meet our newest team member, tecky. i'm tecky. i can do it all. go ahead, ask it a question. tecky, can you offer low costs and award-winning wealth management with a satisfaction guarantee, like schwab? sorry. tecky can't do that. schwabbb! calling schwab. w

in 1985 he got a live one in gorbachev. that was very important. at that time, gorbachev was a diehard communist, no question, but he also understood the west better than his predecessors. he realized the united states by the time he became general secretary, he realized the american military was going to be the most powerful military in the world and it was a force that was enough of the soviet union did not have military superiority, which they had until that time. >> one more question. let me read here, this book, that book, another article. to my understanding, it is a kind of impressionism. i want to ask you to fill it in. bill casey with the cia is making sure solidarity -- he is working with lane kirkland at afl-cio to make sure solidarity gets funds, copy machines, and so forth. then judge clark and his successors as national security advisers are giving information to the vatican. they are sharing information. the vatican diplomatic corps had sources we do not have. vernon walters, former general, acts as a kind of emissary. the coordinati

and certainly mikhail gorbachev won't forget. this morning, i'm in moscow now, we got reaction from mikhail gorbachev. here's what he said, quote, i have a lot of memories associated with this person, obviously speaking about george h.w. bush. we had a chance to work together during the years of tremendous changes. it was a dramatic time that demanded great responsibility from everyone. the result was an end to the cold war and the nuclear arms race. obviously some warm words there from mikhail gorbachev. but you know, having gone through that time, i was in germany obviously at the time the berlin wall came down, when the berlin wall came down, we all believed that there still was going bigfoto be two german states that the warsaw pact associated with the soviet union were still around. it took visionaries like george h.w. bush to understand that this transformational process was bigger than most thought. understanding he could work with mikhail gorbachev and making this happen in a peaceful way. we saw jim sciutto's report abou

i made the first contact for the united states officially, or for reagan with gorbachev, for example. i was over there when russian premier chernenko died. and i went and met gorbachev, got a feel for him, wrote the cable myself to reagan telling him we've got a different man here, we've got a different breed of cat, somebody that you can deal with. and so that was an important moment for me. ♪ there were a lot of things that -- individual times as vice president that i enjoyed. i enjoyed going to germany, trying to get the germans to deploy the pershing missiles. they were a very unpopular thing to do. but reagan wanted me to do this. and i went over there. and they did do it. and it enhanced the peace i think. >> when reagan was shot i was in fort worth and the secret service didn't know if it was a conspiracy to kill all leaders, so they hustled me off in a limo and off to the plane. we stayed in touch with the white house. and got reports on how reagan was doing. i never thought i was president. i never felt i was making the decisions or calling the shots, acting like a presiden

i said gorbachev stole your horseshoe. so that night president bush had the other horseshoe mounted on a plaque and presented it to president gorbachev and said you know in this country a horseshoe is a symbol of good luck. and gorbachev said same thing in the soviet union. then a few months later i was interviewed by the today show and i tell the story when they introduced me to introduce me as the man who taught gorbachev how to play horseshoes. that was my claim to fame. but the horseshoes was a lot of fun. jogging was aggressive, tennis was very aggressive. he played with a lot of world leaders when he would have a chance. love to get star athletes to come and play tennis with him. so it was really good, 20+ years later he had parkinson's and bound in a wheelchair. it was really sad to see that. you know, knowing how active he has been all his life. probably four or five years ago when he was still walking i was at kennebunkport and he was out on the front lawn and he had his fishing line kind of tangled. he actually w

he needed to give gorbachev something in return for gorbachev moving away from the cold war. that bush did on his own. nobody had to tell george bush he had to do it. it was intrinsic. the second thing he did, he understood that germany wanted to reunify. he was the only leader of a major power in the west willing to see germany reunify. one other thing, when kole, who was chancellor of germany, wanted to be in nato, he was there with him. >> i'm going to throw it back to wolf. >> thanks, jake. >>> coming up we will speak to president bush's 41st -- president bush 41st, george h.w. bush, his defense secretary, dick cheney, who went on to serve as vice president under president bush. he remembers george herbert walker bush well. he will join us as our special coverage of the state funeral continues. stay with us. ♪ ♪ [upbeat music] you wouldn't feel good not knowing the price here. don't let it happen when you buy your diabetes test strips. with the accu-chek® guide simplepay program, you pay the same low price. all without having to go through insurance. plus, they come

mikhail gorbachev is the single figure there. ran old reagan, i'm no reagan fan in many ways but ronald reagan, surprising to me, even now, but in courageous ways, and in ways that broke with traditional conservatism in the republican party, and with many democrats as well, reached out to mikhail gorbachev. that's where the initial break takes place, 1987, 1988, '89. along comes george bush. what george bush's great achievement was, from an american point of view, was the management of collapse so things did not go hay wire in so many ways they could have, whether predictable or unprediblctunpre. his management, at a moment when try uhm antalism was remarkable and i think history will treat him kindly as the american manager of those years when he was in office and the collapse of soviet communism and the freeing of eastern and central europe. >> actually, that paid off during the first gulf war when mikhail gorbachev did not oppose the united states massing the huge military coalition to throw back saddam hussein. can i just go

as gorbachev was allowing the soviet union to splinter. and then bush had to deal with the rather unpredictable boris yetten. >> his understanding of how difficult it was for gorbachev was crucial. no triumphantism. that was very important. december 25th, 1991, gorbachev sits -- steps down from the presidency, the end of the soviet union. i was standing at the front lawn doing a live shot on that very day, and thinking why was george bush able to manage that? he had personally extraordinarily great experience. and he also created an amazing national security team. he knew the structure of government. and these people coming together were able to manage what was the biggest threat, the end of the soviet union, and the reunification of germany. that i think is an enormous accomplishment. >> dana, join the conversation from houston. >> i'm just listening to jill. i remember when i first came to cnn, you were a white house correspondent and you had covered the 41st president. also you had this unique perspective. in the fact you were moscow bu

he knew that gorbachev was in a tough position. so he handled the fall of the wall and the transition in europe with diplomacy and respect for gorbachev in the millions of people who were affected. major events in which he played a role as commander-in-chief, i think that was the most important one. today, allo europe of them have a positive view of george bush and the role he played in that time. . maybe the most well known role he played during commander-in-chief was desert storm. there he showcased his abilities not just as a president but as one who had served in combat himself. he understood the need to bring people together. over 40 countries were involved in desert storm. hundreds of thousands of troops. all to stop the aggression of saddam hussein. he knew hussein had to be stopped. it wasn't with us his moral fiber that he could not sit back and watch one country move into a smaller country. be aew there had to decision by america to lead this incredible coalition of countries. he also knew he had to get the american peopl

he wouldn't stick it in gorbachev's eye. gorbachev later said bush's reaction helped him avoid a counter reaction in europe. he was able to put himself in the shoes of hard liners thinking how would i feel if i felt my world crumbling. well, i would not want other side to dance on the wall. so he refused to do it. >> i was a little more forward. it was my desire to make certain the process continued and as quickly as possible. >> i remember very distinctly. he said we'll not be bragging. we'll not be out there flexing our muscles. we have to be quiet. i talked to thatcher, i talked to cole, and we are going to do this in a quite, diplomatic way. he was firm about that from the beginning. >> i remember the criticism george bush got when he refused to dance on the ruins of the berlin wall. they said you have won this 40-year conflict and you are not showing any emotion. what's wrong with you. he understood that we still had a lot of business to do with gorbachev and we weren't going to stick it in their eye. >> he paid the pri

he wouldn't stick it in gorbachev's eye. gorbachev later said bush's reaction helped him avoid a counter reaction in europe. he was able to put himself in the shoes of hard liners thinking how would i feel if i felt my world crumbling. well, i would not want other side to dance on the wall. so he refused to do it. >> i was a little more forward. it was my desire to make certain the process continued and as quickly as possible. >> i remember very distinctly. he said we'll not be bragging. we'll not be out there flexing our muscles. we have to be quiet. i talked to thatcher, i talked to cole, and we are going to do this in a quite, diplomatic way. he was firm about that from the beginning. >> i remember the criticism george bush got when he refused to dance on the ruins of the berlin wall. they said you have won this 40-year conflict and you are not showing any emotion. what's wrong with you. he understood that we still had a lot of business to do with gorbachev and we weren't going to stick it in their eye. >> he paid the pri

bush and gorbachev successfully negotiated the start nuclear treaty. he saw the largest reduction in nuclear arms in history. if you treaty look at the statesmen and states to -- andpected states women expected to attend his memorial service. them, mikhail gorbachev, and german chancellor angela grew up in communist east germany. it is said that the germans today credit george herbert walker bush more than any other person for their successful reunification. he knew that america was stronger when we work with partners than when we imagine that we can somehow go it alone. iraqi troops invaded, george herbert walker bush assembled a coalition to push them back. mark on domestic policy as well. he signed the americans with disabilities act, one of the greatest civil rights laws in our nation's modern history. a committedsh was conservative and a texan by choice. ties to the oil industry. but he believed in science. what a welcome change that would be in washington today. if his party felt the same. president george herbert walker bush understood that pois

mikhail gorbachev will thereby along with angela merkel who grew up in communist east germany. it's said the germans today credit george herbert walker bush more than any person for their successful reunification. he knew that america was stronger when we work with partner,, then we imagine we shall somehow go it alone. when iraqi troops innovated kuwait in 1990, george herbert walker bush methodically assembled a international coalition to push them back. he left his mark in domestic policy as well and fought for in 1990 signed the americans with disabilities act, one of the greatest civil rights laws in our nation's modern history. president bush was a committed serviceman and he had close ties to the oil industry but he believed in science. what a welcomed change that would be in washington today if his party felt the same. president george herbert walker bush understood poisoning our planet is not unfair for future generations but bad for our economy. he helped build bipartisanship support. this republican president helped build bipartisanship support and signed the clean a

among them mick makail gorbachev and angela murkle who grew up in communist east germany. it is said that the germans today credit george herbert walker bush more than any person for their successful reunification. he knew the -- he knew that america was stronger when we work with partners than when we imagine that we can somehow go it alone. when rocky troops invaded kuwait in 1990, george herbert walker bush had methodically assembled an international coalition to push them back. he left his mark on domestic policies as well. he fought for the americans with disabilities act, one of the greatest civil rights laws in our nation's modern history. president bush was a committed conservative and a texan by choice. he had close ties to the oil industry but he believed in science. what a welcome change that would be in washington today if his party felt the same. president george herbert walker bush understood that poisoning our planet is not just unfair to future generations, it's bad for business. it's bad for our economy. he helped build bipartisan support, this republican

>> he liked mikhail gorbachev. i met gorbachev. i was privileged to go to russia in '87 and several times after, and i made a friend of g gorbachev. i told him one day, you have nothing to fear while i'm here in your country because all the icbms that are aimed your way are located in wyoming. and they wouldn't shoot those while i'm here. and he said that to his interpreter, who understood all my western slang, and gorby just threw his head back and laughed. then of course he'd show up in washington and give me a big hug. which appeared in the star tribune, so i think they thought i was a commie for a while. it was all about friendship. he made friends with these people. he liked them. he liked to sit with them and have a drink and have dinner. and gorbachev came to the university of wyoming at the request of many of us. this was not many years ago, to speak, and he and i did a debate. well, they filled the house. we're sitting in the greenroom. i said, have you talked to bush lately? he said, no, i don't like to bother him. i know

if you think about it, whether it was gosh gosh who -- gorbachev who we talked about earlier who was his friend to the end or whether it was his grandma from canada. i know tomorrow there are a number of heads of state who will be at the funeral. this helped us as a country by having those relationships and building those relationships with trust to be able to build a safer, less volatile world. he is known for writing these handwritten notes, and a lot of attention has been paid recently to the class and humility he displayed in the note that he left for incoming president bill clinton the day he assumed office where he wished him well. but it goes beyond that. he was personable and respected everyone. a lot of his friends were democrats. one example that i thought was striking was ohio congressman. i am from ohio. i knew of this congressman. a pretty liberal guy, a democrat. he was ashley from toledo. he and barbara bush just before his term ended invited two couples over to the white house. lud ashley, democrat from toledo, and his wife were at that dinner. just another example of

i think of gorbachev, thatcher, a wonderful former soviet changed entirely. david: you met gorbachev many times. you were impressed with his intellect and abilities? james: yes, yes. david: seems to have done an incredible job changing the course of the world. james: much of it was unintentional. david: does president trump call you for advice very often? james: no. david: for people watching, what are the words of advice for the congress were administration, the great former secretary of state, chief of staff jim baker? james: yeah, we absolutely have to understand that one of the biggest threats facing our country and our democracy is the political dysfunction we have today in this country. when i was there 25 years ago with reagan and with bush and with ford, we reached across the aisle and we got things done. it happened with carter. it happened with clinton. that doesn't happen anymore, and that is truly a tragedy. david: your pleasures are still hunting and fishing. james: i like playing golf. i still go to the office. i am still a senior partner at the

reagan went -- he made the effort to sound out gorbachev. he went to geneva. he got him to agree to sit down and talk. reagan always believed that if he could sit down, he always said like man-to-man across the table from each other, we could solve the world's problems. and i give ronald reagan a lot of credit for that. i mean, i found very quickly, and i began by saying i'm a lifelong democrat, didn't vote for reagan, i found very quickly in my research and my time writing things to really admire him for. and this was one of them. this was definitely, this was a big one. yes. anyone else? here we go. >> during your introduction, you mentioned three different biographies you wrote about the beatles, julia child and this most recent one with reagan. did you see any similarities that behind the scenes drove these people to become successful, to rise out of obscurity? is there anything you can mention about that? >> wonderful question. yes. i always believed that you can't know anything about a subject until you know where they come from. so the first thing that

gorbachev. so he did. when these things happened, bush did not take credit. had he taken more credit he might have made himself stronger for re-election. >> it's important to put this into the context of the present day. george h.w. bush was president at one of the high points in american leadership around the world. he was a noted coalition builder, particularly in his work in the gulf war. his willingness to write handwritten letters to world leaders, pick up the phone and talk to them. we are no in a place where some say america is giving up that leadership role. tell me about the importance of what george h.w. bush was doing at the time in terms of america's role, leadership role in the world. >> it never would have occurred to george h.w. bush to do any of the things that we've been seeing during the last year and a half. this is someone who did his best to build nate o, power around t world. and that the idea of america and the world is that we have a moral dimension to what we do he would have never said morality and human rights are no longer going to

lot of opinion is obviously not like hell gorbachev obviously. previous secretaries of state had said that that the collapse of the soviet union is part of that represents psyche it's the prism through which he he views the world do you agree with that why do you think that's at play and some of the decisions and the things that he says now. ah well yes i mean fortune has many times said that we will not go out ourselves to be pulled into a new arms race we will go down the same drain that the soviet union did but on the other side of it there are very important influence show entrenched interest in russia in moscow the military the military industrial complex diplomats of the old school of the new one actually two who believe that a kind of firearms race of sorts and a standoff with the united states would be maybe good for them and that means i d. towns would mean that defense spending would be cut but right now there is no detente that means that defense spending is going to stay on the same level and the military technically right now abrogat

, -- mikhail gorbachev, or vladimir putin? doris: i wish i knew about that. i said it russian for two years in college and i cannot speak a word of it. jay: i think gorbachev is a fascinating figure in history. we talk about ronald reagan winning the cold war to the extent that reagan did that, he certainly did it because he had a willing and thoughtful partner in mikael gorbachev. gorbachev -- he is not adept at handling media, he does not keep himself in the spotlight. all of the things that are part of the celebrity age that we live in he is not very good at. he in many ways lost the support of his own people. but he is a tragic, -- they must be somewhere in american literature that would define him. in the end, i think he will come out as a very significant leader. i will give you an analogy. i don't want this to be mistaken. abraham lincoln did what he did in the civil war and u.s. grants to bring the war to an end. but at the end of the war, we could have evolved into guerrilla warfare and had a divided country for many

out to gorbachev and invites them to camp david. gorbachev is weak at that point inside the soviet union. they go play horseshoes at camp david, one of the things that george h.w. bush like to do. the first throw, mikhail gorbachev had the ringer. he gets very important. never had played before. bush takes that horseshoe and dinner presents him a mounted horseshoe plaque, saying "congratulations." gorbachev was one of the first former leaders who is still alive to put out a statement after 41's death friday night, to say thank you for his service and sacrifice. >> harris: horseshoe, probably a metaphor for politics as well, i would think, too. bret baier, we will see him at 4:30 p.m. eastern for the next time. i appreciate you being on the program. that's when bret and martha maccallum will incur our special coverage of the ceremony in the u.s. capitol rotunda, where george w. bush will lie in state. leaders of the house and senate will pay their respects, and vice president pence is also scheduled to speak. don't miss a second of i

also, once he did come to believe in gorbachev's policies, being slow to recognise boris yeltsin. what caused them by the late to run out of steam and lose to clinton which he did after one term? i think these were domestic issues. the economy was not very good at that time, and the famous pledge not to raise taxes given the circumstances he was forced to raise them, and this is very unpopular with his base. at the same time you had this charismatic young governor from arkansas running on the message of change, and a new deal for working people, and the middle class in america, and really i would blame it on the economy more than anything else. thank you very much for joining us. hugh woozencraft has all the sport. the time for talking is almost over as tyson fury is looking to become the wbc heavyweight champion of the world, and standing in his weight would be the undefeated deontay wilder in the early hours of sunday morning. there has been bad blood between the two. former web champion evander holyfield says that tyson fury has affected while they're's mindset. it's amazing th

stabilizing framework for arms control if this goes down and it was a great achievement as you know of gorbachev and reagan abolishing an entire class of nuclear weapons in one thousand nine hundred seven we could see the unraveling of arms control as we know it and that is war for all i mean that is very very dangerous so i think there may be some common sense but of course you're right instead of saying we're going to get rid of it because china is not part of it and it's doing this and that there should be an extension to china of this treaty let's bring china in it is one of the great superpowers rising so you actually mentioned withdrawing from the a.b.m. treaty which was for two thousand and two george bush jr was president also what happened john bolton now possible withdraw from the i.m.f. with the help of john bolton but isn't i now have actually a. treaty that is hat that has to be approved by the senate right this may not i mean it may not there may not be withdrawal i mean it may it's still in process there's still a fight on but i just wonder technically pectin leads like supreme la

lot of repetition is obviously not like hell gorbachev obviously. previous secretaries of state had said that that the collapse of the soviet union is part of that represents psyche it's the prism through which he he views the world do you agree with that wow do you think that's a play and some of the decisions and the things that he says now. ah well yes i mean fortune has many times said that we will not allow ourselves to be pulled into a new arms race we will go down the same drain that the soviet union did but on the other side of it there are very important influence show entrenched interests in russia in moscow the military the military industrial complex diplomats of the old school of the new one actually two who believe that a kind of firearms race of sorts and a standoff with the united states would be maybe good for them and that means i d. towns would mean that defense spending would be cut but right now there is no detente that means that defense spending is going to stay on the same level and the military technically right now abrogati

lot of opinions obviously not like hell gorbachev obviously. previous secretaries of state had said that that the collapse of the soviet union is part of that represents psyche it's the prism through which he he views the world do you agree with that why do you think that's at play and some of the decisions in the things that he says now. ah well yes i mean fortune has many times said that we will not go out ourselves to be pulled into a new arms race we will go down the same drain that the soviet union did but on the other side of it there are very important influence show entrenched interests in russia in moscow the military the military industrial complex diplomats of the old school of the new one actually two who believe that a kind of firearms race of sorts and a standoff with the united states would be maybe good for them and that means i d. towns would mean that defense spending would be cut but right now there's no they thought that means that defense spending is going to stay on the same level and the military technically right now abr

lot of opinions obviously not like hell gorbachev obviously. previous secretaries of state had said that that the collapse of the soviet union is part of that represents psyche it's the prism through which he he views the world do you agree with that why do you think that's at play and some of the decisions in the things that he says now. oh well yes i mean fortune has many times said that we will not go out ourselves to be pulled into a new arms race we will go down the same drain that the soviet union did but on the other side of it there are very important influential entrenched interests in russia in moscow the military the military industrial complex diplomats of the old school of the new one actually two who believe that a kind of alms race of sorts and a standoff with the united states would be maybe good for them and that means i d. towns would mean that defense spending would be cut but right now there's no they thought that means that defense spending is going to stay on the same level and the military technically right now abrogating

will beld say gorbachev very kindly viewed by history. in russia andr extraordinarily unpopular still in europe, in germany particularly, all through europe and in the united states. -- i do not want to get into details, but i used to go to the funeral -- when they die? soviet leaders died right in a row, and i was the first american leader to say gorbachev when he became chairman. handwritten cable to reagan, saying, this man is very different. proved to be correct. he was very different in dealing with the u.s. than any other soviet leader had been. the dissolution of the soviet union got out ahead of him. it happens far faster than he thought it would. unification,erman you have to give him credit for that because without his absence , germany would not have been unified peacefully as it was. i think gorbachev, more than any other, will be recorded in for bringing about huge change in the soviet union. he did it without a shot being fired and i give him great credit for that. >> did you have any personal feelings are camaraderie with e

when he was talking to gorbachev in the course of his administration would say to mikhail gorbachev, trust but verify. it's so much that gorbachev got sick of it and stood on the stage talking about holiday sick -- how sick he was of ronald reagan says trust but verify. trump's policy toward russia is trust. trust vladimir putin. not trust his own intelligence apparatus. that is remarkable. at that time is absolutely astounding. that a republican would say, oh, this whole business about russians meddling with our election is over because my counterpart denied it. think about -- that sound you hear is ronald reagan rolling in his grave in simi valley, california. but -- >> i want you to -- >> sure. >> john was just on stephen kolbert and you articulated this so well. talk about you viewers -- we might have to switch chairs. then i'll be totally comfortable gain. very dyslexic for me youch spoke eloquently about your views on the republican party. i'd love you share that with the audience. >> sure. i mean, look, if you look at the party of lincoln, that is a nice notion, right? the par

former soviet leader mikhail gorbachev calling george h.w. bush a true partner in ending the cold war. joining me now, presidential historian michael beschloss. michael beschloss, start with you. a few moments ago we saw pictures of president obama bestowing the presidential medal of freedom there on president george h.w. bush and he said in that speech back in 2011 his life is a testament that public service is a noble calling. i refer to his naval career, on his 18th birthday, signed fo ee the navy. went to yale after that, graduated in two years' time. talk about that calling to pup lick service, if you would? >> david, yao you are absolutely right. this is a guy who served his country for 76 years from the moment he enlists in the navy right after boarding school and becomes the youngest flier in the navy. u.s. navy, in world war ii. you know, here's a case, what if we hadn't had george h.w. bush? one thing would have happened is that i think he was responsible for assuring the end of the cold war at the time it did, and also in thor its

he never forgot the kuwaiti people in their memory also former soviet premier gober gorbachev said it's a time of great change it with the nuclear arms race so the museum celebrates the presidents life it will be the final resting place and we do now know that air force one will pick up the president in houston on monday as they returned to houston and then by train on thursday he will be laid to rest in a private ceremony. jon: we have more on the life and legacy of former president george h.w. bush. >> a new breeze is blowing and it seems reborn for in the man's heart because the day of the dictator is over. >> george's hardest task was to have the green light or operation desert storm. but he is credited to keep the nation away from saddam hussein. before george h.w. bush took his first step into the white house he learned to walk in kennebunkport maine. in 1924 in the town of middleton massachusetts where the family was already deeply involved in public service. second to five and centered on - - son of senator prescott bush and he was accepted at yale the put his education on hold

oleg gordievsky was telling gorbachev, margaret thatcher, what to say to gorbachev. when facts emerge from these meetings saying gorbachev is someone we can do business with, that was because oleg gordievsky was rigging the business. a few moments ago, i mentioned the cia was receiving information from oleg gordievsky. towards the end of 1984 what became a trickle became a flood. the information -- the convention among allies is you can park it on but don't have to reveal where it comes from. you almost never do. that would jeopardize your source. and i 6 was passing stuff to the cia in large quantity but never revealed where it was coming from. the cia doesn't like that. the cia is a vast global intelligence machine with plenty of resources. in the oval office, saying we have some fantastic information but we don't know where it comes from and without informing mi 6, the cia launched its own investigation of who this spy was. they had a lot of time and worked it out. and extra piece of sleuthing, where the nuggets of information, which kgb officer could be in the ri

the relationships established then with gorbachev, for example, and the way that we operated, we had the military capacity. we generated significant success in the desert when we went to the gulf t war. ande same time, that sort of backed up everything anybody ever thought about us, including our adversaries.as theret anybody that wanted to mess with the united ates. and over time, ultimately obviously led to the decision by the soviets to shut down their operation. >> what was interesting, i think secretary baker said president bush was insistent that as the soviet union wasfalling, as eastern europe was falling, don't poke gorbachev. >> exactly.be i can rem -- i can get into a little bit of a tug and pullback and forthwith brent skoe craft. i would get into embassies in the sovereign states. brent wanted to go slow. he was speaking with the president, but i did it the way wanted it done. on the other hand, there was a great temptation to move aggressively to make sure we controlled and maintned the enormous success of the collapse empire.oviet on the other hand, the president led t

war to the extent that reagan did that, he certainly did it because he had a thoughtful partner in gorbachev and he's not hailing the media are keeping himself in the spotlight, all of these things that are part of the celebrity age he's not good at, he is tragic and there must be somewhere in american literature that we can find him but in the end i think you will come out as a significant leader and i will give you an analogy, abraham lincoln did what he did in the civil war and at the end of the war we could have dissolved into gorilla warfare but thanks to we had a partner and once he resigned and surrendered he tried as best he could to be a good citizen of the united states even though he never became a citizen, i see gorbachev as being in the role of something tragic and understated he doesn't get the credit he deserves but is deeply historic the other person is prudent and i don't know enough about pollutant button is a strong leader and one person i do know about is kathleen mcgregor that the charm and culture. she was a great imperialist and i think what he's trying to do is try to

the relationships established then with gorbachev, for example, and the way that we operated, we had the military capacity. we generated significant success in the desert when we went to the gulf war. and at the same time, that sort of backed up everything anybody ever thought about us, including our adversaries. there wasn't anybody that wanted to mess with the united states. and over time, ultimately obviously led to the decision by the soviets to shut down their operation. >> what was interesting, i think secretary baker said president bush was insistent that as the soviet union was falling, as eastern europe was falling, don't poke gorbachev. >> exactly. i can remember -- i can get into a little bit of a tug and pull back and forthwith brent skoe craft. i would get into embassies in the sovereign states. brent wanted to go slow. he was speaking with the president, but i did it the way i wanted it done. on the other hand, there was a great temptation to move aggressively to make sure we controlled and maintained the enormous success of the collapse of the soviet empire. on the oth