translation, bob mueller looked sbh into this, bob mueller has a sterling reputation, bob mueller saying we don't have evidence the president didn't commit crimes in office, congress is the place to adjudicate this. this is to the house to decide what to do about it. >> jeremy bash we are waiting for some sort of response from this white house. one would assume we would get something here very soon. we know they were huddled around their televisions at 11:00 eastern like all of us. mr. bash is that how you heard it? this 448 page report, bob mueller saying it is going to speak for itself and all but daring congress to do something about what he reported? >> craig, i was struck by a couple things. number one is bob mueller leaned really hard into the office of legal counsel opinion that says you cannot prosecute a sitting president even if if you found he engaged in critical activity. that was kind of the centerpiece of the statement. it was present in his report but the report was 448 pages it was so longs, it was so detailed, it was sort of, i think hard to get the fundamental point. nu

we know what bob mueller said. he said it in his report. >> sandra: leslie. >> i find it interesting that when the inspector general comes out and says look, republicans looking into spying if you will prior with regard to trump and his campaign, that report wasn't sufficient, right? we want more investigation. when the democrats say look we have some questions regarding this report, we have some questions regarding the redaction and when you have the house who have a majority democrats who are tasked constitutionally with oversight of the executive branch in a sense they're doing their job and they're saying look -- >> sandra: to be fair i don't think democrats are just saying they have questions. nancy pelosi publicly claimed that the president is engaged in a crime, a cover-up last week before meeting with the president. >> speaker pelosi with regard to what she said about the president is not necessarily the q and a that left or right would have for robert mueller. it is not just democrats disappointed he won't

if you're turning on your tv and bob mueller is going to talk, everybody told me that bob mueller doesn't talk. you d the real key context here and i'll get into detail because i think it's relevant. on march 25th that mueller sent his first private letter to barr saying, i object basically to the way you're characterizing this. on march 27th that he sent a second letter to barr saying, hey, i sent you this first letter and i'm concerned about what's coming out. we understand you're reviewing the full report, but we want to alleviate, quote, misunderstandings. that misunderstands that have arisen and the nature and outcome of our investigation. we know that was now over a month ago that bob mueller was so concerned. he was going to say to his boss, hey, these misunderstandings, ie, what you have been telling people to thmake them misunderstand. >> i gave you a month and you mischaracterized and now you continued to, in my view, mischaracterized what i know my report says. could that be what we're looking at? >> as you and i know, i don't want to try to interpret what bob mueller will say

>> i thought bob mueller is doing exactly what bob mueller does best. he is a subtle communicator around the fact that there is no exoneration on obstruction of justice in this context with volume two of the report. you know, even in terms of volume one when it comes to that trump tower meeting on june 9th. he says in his report that one of the reasons they can't charge a campaign finance conspiracy is because of obstruction. so you also have to read the two volumes together and i think what he's saying is exactly as john said, it's like the evidence is there. i gave it to you. do something with it. do something and read it. >> gene, he was imploring the public to perhaps do more than many of our leaders ask, than certainly people often feel like the level of discourse. and here was a man who obviously feels that he's worked hard. he served his country. does he not want to be drawn into political sniping. he doesn't see the role as political. but he is asking us to do something. take a look at his request. >> beyond these few remarks it is important tha

bob mueller didn't contact me about my conclusions. bob mueller contacted me about my memo and how i was describing his report and those are two different things. again, i get it's not as transparent as it could have been, but would that not be an argument he could make? >> i don't think that begins to cut mustard. i'm just reading from the mueller letter where he speaks about the barr memo. and he says it does not fully capture the substance of mueller's conclusions. what are the conclusions that mueller reached. they were on two counts. one was the so-called collusion issue. the other was obstruction of justice. those were the conclusions that were laid out in the memo and those were the conclusions that barr was talking about. and so, when barr told me, in response to a direct question, that he did not know whether mueller had concerns with his conclusions, it flatly contradicts the letter that mueller sent him. >> so, your democratic colleagues and 2020 presidential candidates, former hud secretary, julian castro, senator elizabeth

that's clearly what bob mueller is trying to do. thanks to our prosecutors and julia ainsley who were all part of this unpredictable block. we have new reporting on the russia side. i will show you more context on what is a brand-new post mueller press conference statement from his office and then later why mueller says today that this report is his testimony. we're going to show you those key parts in the mueller report that everyone is going to be talking about now that he has stepped on the national stage, when we come back. >> when a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators, it strikes at the core of the government's effort to find the truth and hold wrong doers accountable. if you have moderate to thsevere rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain

so bob mueller's job was over. i thought it was inappropriate, candidly, for bob mueller to write a letter to bill barr because bill barr has total discretion as to what -- and you know that is a fact. he has -- let me finish. he has total discretion as to whether to print a summary, to send out pieces of the report, or to send out the entire report. and for him to do that, to me, was grandstanding because he knew this letter would eventually -- >> okay. let him answer. >> this idea that somehow bill barr is doing us a favor by acting in the matter of transparency on a matter of fundamental importance -- >> it's not required by the law. >> lots of things aren't required by the law. but a matter of importance to the american people. it was very important that -- the whole point of mueller's mandate here was ensuring public faith in our investigative system. that's what he was trying to do. that was undermined by a number of the steps the attorney general took. >> okay. let me bring in garrett because if only we had

so bob mueller's job was over. i thought it was inappropriate, candidly, for bob mueller to write a letter to bill barr because bill barr has total discretion as to what -- and you know that is a fact. he has -- let me finish. he has total discretion as to whether to print a summary, to send out pieces of the report, or to send out the entire report. and for him to do that, to me, was grandstanding because he knew this letter would eventually -- >> okay. let him answer. >> this idea that somehow bill barr is doing us a favor by acting in 9 matter of transparency on a matter of fundamental -- >> it's not required by the law. >> lots of things aren't required by the law. but a matter of importance to the american people. the whole point of mueller's mandate here was ensuring public faith in our investigative system. that's what he was trying to do. that was beyond mined by a number of the steps the attorney general took. >> okay. let me bring in garrett because if only we had an expert on robert mueller, and we have

bob mueller said there was sufficient evidence. that's exactly what bob mueller said. the only reason i could not bring charges is because i could not under policy under the way we operate and the constitution requires that the house now act. >> how should they about their source and methods and david's report on saturday in the new york times. what is known publicly about a key russian source close to putin that helped lead to that original assessment that putin ordered this attack on our election. >> it's not over stating it to note that lives are at stake. when people risk their lives and the lives of their family to provide information on what an adversary nation is doing to the united states, we have to do everything we can to protect them. the gathering capabilities, that's putting lives at stake just for a political purpose. >> frank, this used to be your job full time as counter intelligence. what about getting future cooperation from our allies, from the brits and australians and others about russia and other poimportant sources. >> there's a fallout. when you

. >> barr also hitting bob mueller. bob mueller for declining to make a decision on obstruction. >> i think if he felt he should not go down the path of making a traditional prosecutive decision, he shouldn't have investigated. that was the time to pull up. >> but mueller was very clear in his report. he did not make a finding on obstruction because he thought it should be up to congress to do just that. barr today repeating over and over, he did not think that was mueller's decision to make. >> bob mueller is the equivalent of a u.s. attorney. he is part of the department of justice. his work concluded when he sent his report to the attorney general. at that point, it was my baby. and it was my decision how and when to make it public. not bob mueller. >> joining us now, new jersey, my home state senator corey booker who questioned bill barr today. senator, i want to start by playing part of your questions earlier. >> i fear that you are adding normalcy to a point where we should be sounding alarms as opposed to saying

again, bob mueller has been the same bob mueller for more than seven decades now. he's not going to change dramatically. he's careful, he's cautious, he's smart, and he's a man of tremendous integrity. whether it's department of justice employee bob mueller or private citizen bob mueller he'll stick to what he wrote and adhere closely to the rules that govern his testimony. >> thank you both very much. appreciate it. >>> more breaking news. this time on wall street. markets down more than 200 points. looks like 231. comes, of course, as president trump's latest threat to hike tariffs on goods imported from china. joining me now, msnbc host stephanie ruhle on all this. steph, wall street has been mostly non-reactive to the president's tweet so far. we saw a lot around christmastime. seems now markets are reacting more. r why? >> over the weekend we saw a markedly different tone from the president with regard to china and the trade talks. truth is, it sort of confirmed the gut feeling investors have had for quite some time. that negotiations with china were not actua

bob mueller produced this 400-page report that is with facts and so on. the politics have clearly squelched it. you saw that in the questioning. republicans are from mars, democrats are from venus. republican questions barely raised bob mueller's clear objections to the way barr summarized the report. democrats were asking the key questions. mueller realized that this was going to be a political decision and makes clear he wants congress to decide. ultimately, it is a political decision by congress and will end up in political hands here. even the facts of barr's report, you have barr contradicting stuff that we can read for ourselves here. the d.o.j. guidelines factors into his decision newt indict because he said it repeatedly. barr made a claim that mueller never pushed it on getting the president to testify. they were pushing and negotiating for months to do that. the president refused. even the facts are in question here. ultimately, it is a political decision riven with politics. >> think back to the very beginning of this. what you have here is pro

>> i kind of feel leak i worked with bob mueller before he was bob mueller. he was my direct supervisor. as chief of homicide in the d.c. attorney's office, he brought me to the homicide section. he taught me to be a federal homicide prosecutor. what was nice, he was right next door and i would go in and out of his office all day long. he was teaching me how to do it. we're talking about tactical decisions, plea offers. and i learned from the man. and you know, that's why i'm sitting here shaking my head and taking deep breaths. when i hear barr say things like, well, barr's report was kind of snitty and it was probably written by a staffer. i mean, anybody who knows bob mueller knows that that is disrespectful. it is inaccurate. bob doesn't do snitty. bob does serious and measured and bob reaches conclusions based on the facts, based on the evidence, based on the law. sans political considerations. that's who bob mueller is. and i'll tell you, he is really the king of circumstance up specs. he did not, he was unable to indict a sitting president. and because

expressed his concerns. >> did bob mueller support your conclusion? >> i don't know whether bob mueller supported my conclusion. >> reporter: today, barr evaded explaining that discrepancy, instead bringing up a different answer from a different hearing. >> the question was, relating to unidentified members who were expressing frustration over the accuracy relating to findings. i don't know what that refers to at all. >> reporter: democrats weren't buying it. >> you lied. and now we know. >> mr. barr, your -- i feel your answer was purposefully misleading and i think others do, too. >> barr also pairied questions about why he concluded president trump's conduct, like trying to fire mueller, did not rise to obstruction of justice. >> there is a distinction between saying to someone, go fire him, go fire mueller, and saying, have him removed based on conflict. >> and what would -- they have different results. >> reporter: but mueller did not see that distinction. writing in the more than 400-page report, that in seeking to fire the special counsel, the

of bob mueller. it's an astonishing thing. it's not individuals. it's a collective thing that happened. when we look back on this era, that's -- that kind of corruption, i don't mean necessarily pay for play corruption but the kind of ethical, moral corruption of the entire republican party at the foot of this man is going to be one of the most historical facts of this era. >> i think people make bargains. they bargain with themselves. they say, look, i can hold my tongue and i can live with this because i'm doing x and x is more important in the long run. once you start making those bargains, once you start rationalizing the tradeoffs, you're done. >> that's right. the thing i found compelling about comey's op-ed, we expect that from people on the hill at the justice department you expect from the hill. it's not supposed to be the doj, it's absent from your thinking. and you have sally yates, who couldn't carry out an illegal order, like chuck rosenberg, like jim comey who wouldn't shut down an inve

. >> did bob mueller support your conclusion? >> i don't know whether bob mueller supported my conclusion. >> all right. attorney attorney william barr in testimony to the house and senate last month, saying he was unaware of any objections from special counsel robert mueller. we found out late yesterday he was well aware of mueller's concerns. attorney general barr is scheduled to testify before the republican-controlled senate judiciary committee this morning. >> a lot has been going on. >> yeah. >> certainly since right after 7:00 p.m., when the news broke that robert mueller had sent a letter to attorney general barr a month ago, talking about how he did believe that the report had been mischaracterized and released in such a way, the letter, that it undermined -- and these are mueller's words -- it undermined one of the central purposes of the justice department appointing a special counsel. >> which would make those comments basically a lie. >> certainly would make his testimony to charlie crist a lie. if done under oath, p

that should not be on bob mueller. that should be squarely on the president of the united states who could have answered questions like every other president in that situation has. >> mueller isn't the only one he pushes back on. in that exchange where he defends the president. he does something that really only sarah huckabee sanders does. i don't think she's done in about 70 days. what he does, what he did was to impugn the credibility of people who have been subpoenaed. he impugned the credibility of don mcgahn. mueller takes the steps of explaining why he found mcgahn credible. he explains how mcgahn didn't come in willingly. we know from press accounts that mcgahn advocate ed not cooperating. because he refused the fire mueller, the president who is petty all the time sided with ty cobb and john dowd. this whole thing is this toxic, dysfunctional mess. what barr did call into question of testimony of don mcgahn who has been subpoenaed who is deciding whether to go testify or be held in contempt. his lawyers said e

it was bob mueller's job. why bob mueller did not bite the bullet and come to that decision remains a bit of a mystery. we have a very elaborate explanation. but he was charged with making that decision. so what we have is this incredibly elaborate analysis in book two with respect to obstructive acts. i don't think it serves the country well. didn't serve the justice department well. but that's now history. all we're doing now is looking back on the process as to how the decision was made. the decision has been made, there was no crime of obstruction. now if the house of representatives wants to go forward with this that's their business. one of the things that i think is very important in terms of what bill barr has been doing under these very difficult circumstances, under these regulations, all he was required to do was to notify congress and to provide an explanation. bob mueller's job was to provide the attorney general with a confidential report. toward the end of these hearings or this session bill bar

so i know bob mueller doesn't want to testify. let's me use betsy's vehicle of the movie and screen play. bob mueller wrote the screen play. it is right there. and now we need the actors. we don't need bob mueller to say by the way, don mcgahn told us that the president told him to fire special counsel. and then told him to lie about it. we need don mcgahn to say the president told me to lie. we need the movie, not the screen writer. >> bets ciy, how hard is to gete movie made if we continue with the analogy? one of the perhaps unintended consequences, their message is pretty muddy. the stories where all over the place. >> i'm going to torture the analogy here. this movie is not an ad for a used car lot. this movie is lord of the rings. it could take a long time too to force all the relation haven't people to come in. and that is a huge problem for democrats. don mcgahn says he won't go in. judges don't like rearranging their dockets because of political pressure. so the judiciary will say we don't want to make our decisions about

he was completely dismissive of bob mueller's legal theory and that is why bob mueller, in his letter, said that because there is now public confusion about their work that it undermines the special counsel, which is supposed to assure full public -- >> hold on a minute. chairman of the committee, lindsey graham, is speaking. >> the attorney general will be testifying here in a bit about the mueller report. i want to thank him for coming to the committee and giving us an explanation as to the alcohoalcohol actions he took and here is the good news. here is the mueller report. you can read it for yourself. it's about 400 and something pages. can't say i've read it all but i've read most of it. there's an unredacted version over in the classified section of the senate, a room where you can go look at the unredacted version. i did that and found it not to change anything in terms of an outcome, but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those of you who may not know -- i don't know where you have been but bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country a

we also want to hear from bob mueller. but from what i know, william he took an oath to the constitution, not to donald trump. he's supposed to be america's attorney, not trump's stooge. and because he misused his position, he's got to go. >> i've got to ask you from some of the frustration from the american public. people are saying the democrats have oversight power now, they have the congress. and this is not me saying it, but they appear to have no spine. when are you going to start taking some action? when are you going to start jailing people? when are you going to start doing something about people who defy subpoenas and don't follow the constitution? what are you going to do and when? >> >> we do need some of these people to actually violate the subpoena, so bill barr has until tomorrow to provide the unredacted mueller report. if he does not do that, i'm going to push for a contempt proceeding against bill barr, and then i'm going to push for that contempt proceeding to also happen on the house floor. once that ha

bob mueller didn't really look at that question. but the answers may be, for example, in donald trump's accounting documents or in his income tax returns. but to proceed now with an impeachment is to go down a path which president trump is surely going to win. that he has the votes in the senate. and if -- if the senate rebuffs the house, then donald trump is going to claim before the 2020 election, i got my hearing, my critics did their worst and i was acquitted. it is -- that's the wrong way to go. what you meant to do is go down a path that will lead to success and get information and as the congressman said shape the mind of the country to understand what they're dealing with. very few people read the mueller report. that's one of the things bob mueller is complaining about. but to help the mind of the country understand what kid of person this president is, what his connections are, how he became the president in the first place. that calls for those kind of hearings, not an argument about the technicalities of obstruction and

>> yes. >> and the answer is no according to bob mueller? >> that's right. >> he couldn't decide about obstruction. you did. is that correct? >> that's right. >> do you feel good about your decision? >> absolutely. >> thank you very much. >> chairman, mr. attorney general, the special counsel's report describes how the president directed white house counsel don mcgahn to fire special counsel mueller, and later told mcgahn to write a letter, quote, for our records, end quote, stating that the president had not ordered him to fire mueller. the report also recounts how the president made repeated efforts to get mcgahn to change his story. knowing that mcgahn believes the president's version of events was false, the special counsel found, and i quote, substantial evidence, end quote, that the president tried to change mcgahn's account in order to prevent further scrutiny of the president towards the investigation. special counsel also found that mcgahn is a credible witness with no motive to lie or exaggerate, given the position he held in the w

let's start with the criticism of bob mueller. the president calls him totally conflicted because he is hanging this on a business dispute, the alleged business dispute, which is not a business dispute, was bob mueller's membership at the trump national golf club in virginia. in a footnote on page 80 and 81 of the report mueller actually touches on this and says yes i wrote a letter to the club saying i was leaving the club and could i get a partial refund on my initiation fee. that's the extent of the business dispute on which president trump is hanging his criticism of bob mutualer. >> speaks to mueller's transparency. he wrote that he and his family didn't get to the club anymore they were leaving and would like a partial refund. it took some weeks to resolve that. that's the business dispute. and fact check number two, mueller did meet with president trump in the west wing to discuss candidates for the fbi job, because mueller served in the post so long. it was not an interview, mueller was not seeking that job. in fa mueller

complaints. >> did bob mueller support your conclusion? >> i don't know whether bob mueller supported my conclusion. >> this is april 9. listen. >> reports have emerged recently, general, that members of the special counsel's team are frustrated at some level with the limited information included in your march 24th letter, that it does not adequately or accurately, necessarily, portray the report's findings. do you know what they're referencing with that? >> no, i don't. >> yes, he did. he knew exactly why mueller's team was frustrated. he knew. he knew exactly what bob mueller thought about his conclusion. there is a letter. mueller's letter says it all, loud and clear. there is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. this threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the department appointed the special counsel, to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations. and he sat there and said he didn't know if robert mueller agreed with his letter, his four-page letter. when as

bob mueller should not testify. no redoes for the dems, later tweeting, quote, they have stolen, with two l's, two years of me [ our ] presidency, collusion delusion that we will never get back. he later fixed that tweet to correct the misspelling. here is barr, followed by the president. >> robert mueller remains a justice department employee as of this moment. will you permit him to testify publicly to congress? >> i have no objection to bob mueller personally testifying. >> what about bob mueller, should he allowed to testify? >> i already said publicly, i have no objection to him. >> and don mcgahn? >> mr. mueller, should mueller testify? >> i don't know. that's up to our attorney general, who has done a fantastic job. >> house intelligence chair, democrat adam schiff reacted to the tweets, writing this, trump announced he is opposed to mueller testifying before congress. before the american people. he also opposes letting mcgahn appear. barr's testimony alone, designed to protect trump, is not going to cut it.

the real question is, bob mueller will likely testify. the attorney general said he has no problem with him testifying. it's just a matter of whether senator graham calls him or not. and when did bob mueller know that the collusion, conspiracy, coordination -- part of the investigation -- wasn't there? was it before the midterm elections? was it after? was it -- how long did it take to come to that conclusion? i think those are all big questions yet to be answered. >> jerry nadler requested mueller by the 24th of may. if memory serves. he could show up on the house i before the senate side, then. >> definitely. that is possibly going to happen with democrats running the show, and getting him to that deceit. again, the attorney general saying that's fine. but you did see pushback. and the possibility of an executive privilege on don mckinnon sitting down for testimony. and other members of the executive branch sitting down for testimony, even though they were fully cooperative in the mueller investigation. which, by the way, is an executiv

bob mueller should not testify, no re-dos for the dems. that contradicts what the president said just days ago. >> mr. president, should mueller testify? would you like to see him testify? >> i don't know. that's up to our attorney general who i think has done a fantastic job. >> let's bring in boris sanchez at the white house where the president is now weighing in on calls for mueller to testify, thumbs down from the president. >> reporter: yeah, that's right, fred. despite what you heard there from the president on friday saying that it would be up to attorney general william barr to determine whether it would be appropriate for special counsel robert mueller to testify before the house judiciary committee. now we're hearing president trump clarify his feelings in this tweet saying flat out bob mueller should not testify. of course; when the attorney general was asked about this, he did not see it the way that the president does in this tweet about a re-do for democrats. listen to what the attorney general actually said. >> what about bo

you have to hear from bob mueller. he is the only person who can say whether there is enough in his report to warrant congressional follow-up or not. if he sells the findings short, if he's ho hum about the need for political accountability, the only real move for democrats is to use what is in that report in the election. but if he puts meat on the bones of the five different basis of potential obstruction in the report that most of you have not read so they are trying to fire mueller, trying to get don mcgahn to lie about wanting to fire mueller and trying to limit mueller scope and trying to mess with cohen's testimony and manafort's cooperation deal. if he puts meat on the bones and said those are legitimate questions that he can't pursue and congress can and then it is time to put up or shut up for this president, not the democrats. they'll have to get to the bottom of it and this president will have to change course from this. >> i don't do cover-ups. you people know that probably better than anybody. >> no, beca

. >> and the answer is no, according to bob mueller? >> that's right. >> that is just not what the mueller report says. number two, mueller laid out evidence that the president directed his white house counsel to have mueller fired. that's the word mueller uses. the president claims he did no such thing, and now this is what barr is claiming. >> the president never directed him to fire. and there is a distinction between saying to someone go fire him, go fire mueller, and saying have him removed based on conflict. >> three, mueller laid out evidence indicating that the president tried to remove the special counsel with the corrupt intent of curtailing the investigation. the president has suggested he could have fired mueller because he thought it was a witch hunt. and now so does barr. >> if the president is being falsely accused and he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents and was hampering his ability to govern, that is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel. >> four, mueller

report and bob mueller in front of them? >> it seems like the house democrats are really trying to paint the attorney general as a partisan who is putting politics above his role as the chief law enforcement officer. certainly bill barr not appearing before the committee yesterday really allowed democrats to further that argument. now that being said that doesn't mean that barr will not be before the committee again at some time in the future. obviously jerrold nadler said he's considering whether or not to issue a subpoena that would compel barr to testify but that could also be the start of a pretty protract and lengthy legal battle. >> melissa quin, thank you. have a great weekend. >>> president trump is going after democratic presidential candidate joe biden after the former vice president said he was skeptical of the threat posed by china. watch this. >> china is going to eat our lunch? come on, man. you know, they are not bad folks, folks. guess what? they are not competition for us. no one can compete with us. no one

i think it's very important we talk to bob mueller. what we have here is not an attorney general for the united states. we have someone who is running a pr firm on behalf of someone who is subject to damage control. this is a damage control operation on behalf of the president of the united states. this is not the attorney general of the united states. he can't answer simple questions and clearly hasn't read the report nor the underlying evidence that is probably over a thousands pages yet he could make a decision and a determination that the president did not obstruct justice. that's truly laughable. >> let me ask you this. if mueller wasn't perhaps motivated to run over there and testify before today, do you think that robert mueller, as a television viewer, which we assume him to be, would be motivated after hearing his work depicted the way it was today by the a.g.? >> well, however he is motivated, i think that it's incumbent on the judiciary committee and the intelligence committee to subpoena bob mueller to come before us and te

so yeah, zo i want to talk to bob mueller? absolutely i do. >> sandra: final question on fox news reporting, catherine herridge is on this about an august 2016 defensive briefing to the trump campaign. she is putting this together through some congressional letters among other things. the big question here is was there adequate warning about russia's outreach to the campaign at that time? and that michael flynn and george papadopoulos were already f.b.i. investigation? can you answer that question for us? >> i can. even though that relates to classified materials. i can't tell you what's in those materials but i have seen them and but what is public and not classified is there was a defensive briefing of candidate trump on august 17th of 2016. and i can tell you what he wasn't told. he wasn't warned about a russia investigation that peter strzok had opened 18 days earlier. and so the questions -- there are a lot of questions there that go to the origins of that matter and that's one of the reasons i'm excited that bill barr ha

so if bob mueller -- if bob barr decides bob mueller shouldn't testify, then it's going to be tough for me to be convinced that donald trump didn't put a thumb on the scale because, again -- and this isn't six years ago, or two years ago when the investigation started. this is bill barr within the last six weeks, wolf, saying, i'm fine with bob mueller testifying. so i think we have to wait and see if bob mueller actually testifies. if he doesn't, if barr blocks that, you can rightly assume that was donald trump. >> he said he's more than happy to let him testify. he didn't say when he should testify, but let hum testify. >> and that's a legitimate question. at some point, as we've seen in the administration do on other things, at some point there's a running the clock out element to this, too. the mueller report is now out, right? nowish or the next month would seem like an appropriate time. six months, a year from now, bob mueller's recollection won't be what it is today. so i do think we need to have it in a relatively narrow time frame. >> jamie gangel, the president today not disgu

>> yes. >> and the answer is no according to bob mueller? >> that's right. >> he could not decide about ob instruction and you did, is that right? >> yes. >> do you feel good about your decision? >> absolutely. >> thank you very much. >> chairman, mr. attorney general, the special counselcou report describes how the president directs don mcgahn to fire special council mueller and later told mcgahn to write a letter for our record stating that the president had not ordered him to fire mueller. it also recounts how the president made repeated efforts to get mcgahn to change his story. knowing that the president believes mcgahn's recollection of the results were false, that the president tried to change mcgahn's account to prevent further scrutiny of the president forward the investigation. special counsel also found that mcgahn is an incredible witness that can lie and exaggerate given the position he had in the white house. does existing law prohibit efforts to get a witness to lie, to say something the witness believes is false? >> yes. lie

i talked directly to bob mueller, not members of his team. and even though i did not know what was being referred to, and mueller had never told me that the expression of the findings was inaccurate, but i did then volunteer that i thought they were talking about the desire to have more information put out. but it wasn't my purpose to put out more information. >> mr. barr, i feel your answer was purposely misleading, and i think others do, too. let me ask you another one. you said the president has fully cooperated with the investigation, but his attorney had told a defendant of if he d cooperate with the investigation. that?re a conflict in that? >> both mr. manafort and mr. cohen were told by trump's personal attorney they would be taken care of if they did not cooperate. you said that the president was fully cooperating. is there a conflict there? yes or no? >> no. >> you think that's fully cooperating, to instruct a former aide to tell the attorney general to unrecuse himself, shut down the investigation and declare the president did noth

i talked directly to mob bob mueller. not members of his team. and even though i did not know what was being referred to, and mueller had never told me that the expression of the findings was inaccurate, you but i did then volunteer that i thought they were talking about the desire to have more information put out. but it wasn't my purpose to put out more information. senator leahy: i feel your answer was purposely misleading. and i think others do, too. et me ask you another one. you said the president has fully cooperated with the investigation, but his attorney had told a dependent he would be taken care of if he didn't cooperate with the investigation. is there a conflict in that? atty. gen. barr: could you just repeat that. senator leahy: both mr. manafort and mr. cohen were told they would be taken good care of if they did not cooperate. you said that the president was fully cooperating. is there a a conflict there? yes or no? atty. gen. barr: no. senator leahy: you think it's fully cooperating to instruct the former aide to tell the attorn

you know who said no one obstructed bob mueller? bob mueller. he said anything he was asked to, he was permitted. anything he was asked for, he was given. >> bob mueller was? >> he was never denied a subpoena of anyone he asked for, never denied a search warrant, in terms of being authorized by the justice department to do it so it seems to me in bob mueller. >>> has said there was nothing that came out of the executive branch that stops me from doing anything i wanted to do. >> but he didn't say in the report that there was a number of information that was delete, that was unavailable, the president didn't sit down with him. he didn't speak to bob mueller directly. so there was certainly more. >> bob mueller never served a subpoena on the president. that was his choice. he could have subpoenaed the president. when the president said i'll only answer questions in writing. he could have suspended the president. he didn't. >> so what did you make of bob mueller writing the letter to bill barr, given that bob bob mueller is such a chain of command

the fact of the matter is bob mueller said nothing of the kind. in effect he said that this report is an indictment in all but name. if donald trump were any other official, if there were no office of legal counsel memorandum saying a sitting president cannot be indicted, he would be under indictment right now. and, in fact, he is an unindicted co-con spiritor in the southern district of new york prosecution. you're absolutely right, anderson, that three weeks after this rebuke from bob mueller william barr went again before the american people and distorted, deceived, misled them. >> senator, julian castro, who's one of the democrats running for president said in light of this, barr should resign or be impeached. do you agree? >> i voted against william barr. i said then he was unfit to be attorney general. i believe he is unfit even more so today. there's more evidence of it, and what the remedy should be i'm going to be talking to my colleagues tomorrow about his explanation or attempted explanation of this kind of misconduct. in effect he harb

quote, bob mueller should not testify. why the change? let's go to our white house correspondent, kaitlan collins. he was fine with it, now he's not. why? >> days later, the president changed his mind. people who have been speaking with the president said a lot of that had to do with after bill barr testified last week, the president was complaining about the way democrats had treated the attorney general, who the president has been praising in private and now the president seems to be making this decision, saying bob mueller should not testify. of course, this puts all the attention back on bill barr and whether or not he's going to make the decision because up until now, the president has said it would be up to the attorney general. so now the attorney general is facing even more pressure, even more than what phil laid out for you there, by saying it's the president overruling him, it seemed to be saying he shouldn't testify any longer. now, the question is what republicans are going to say about this because it wasn't just democrats wh

mueller. >> bob mueller is one thing. he will appear before the house at some point in the next couple of weeks. don mcgahn was a dee witness in the mueller investigation and on questions of obstruction of justice. but the white house is saying they're not going to let him appear. the whole planning of investigating and laying it out for the public is shot right now. >> we will be back with the other part of this must-watch television in a moment. welcome to fowler, indiana. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. armando: i am a veteran, i lost both legs in vietnam. announcer: as america's veterans face challenges, dav is there. armando: my victory was getting my benefits and a good education. announcer: dav helps veterans i've

on march 5th, i met with bob with the principle associate deputy bob mueller. i met with bob mueller. to get a read out on what his conclusions would be. on march 25th, and at that meeting i asked, i reiterated to special counsel mueller that in order to have the shortest possible time before i was in a position to release the report, i asked that they identify 6e material. and when i received the report on march 22nd and we were hoping to have that easily identify the 6e material, unfortunately, it did not come in that form. and it quickly became apparent that it would take three or four weeks to identify that material and other material that had to be redacted. so, there was necessarily going to be a gap between the receipt of the report and getting the full report out publicly. the deputy and i identified four categories of information that we believe required redaction. and i think you will all know of them, but they were the grand jury material, the 6e material. information that the intelligence community advised would reveal sources and methods and inform

bob mueller is as far from that status as could be. there's no executive privilege for mueller, or for that matter, barr. >> but these legal remedies you talk about, trying and even if you win it will be months and months from now? >> the timing is going to depend on the courts. remember, you well know, the watergate issue came to the supreme court on a very fast track. if the courts decide they want to hold the president accountable, if they really believe the president is not above the law, they can fast track these subpoenas as well. you're absolutely right, courts determine their own timing. i think a court ought to be absolutely outraged by this defiance of constitutional rules and norms that have prevailed for centuries and that also demean the importance and status of the other branches of government. the president is effectively saying he has ultimate power. >> thank you very much. >>> up next, i'm going to get reaction from two key figures from the watergate era. john bernstein and john dean. are planked-to-perfection. feast o

>> yeah, but i mean, this is bob mueller being bob mueller in this particular case. he's going to be fair and follow the law and the fact that he wrote this letter tells me that he was not amused that the context of those four-page letter that barr did. at the same time he'd follow it. i'm not sure he'd take the bait. i'm not sure if i were him i wouldn't take the bait about saying, listen, these circumstances and any other circumstances, obstruction of justice are two very different things and i'm not going to be speculative. that's the answer i would give if i were him because he's in a bad spot. it's not necessarily a hot mess but it's certainly a spicy disaster. think about it. you're going to ask him to come in and you know he has differences with barr. one team is going to try to get him to fan the flames and make it as bad as possible, and the other team will say, it's not bad. >> remember he already had it. he had the reporting that the reporter from the new york times on the show earlier had it already that mueller's team wasn't happy about this. >> that had

quote, bob mueller should not testify. president trump said that in a tweet 48 hours after saying this in the oval office. >> mr. president, should mueller testify? >> i don't know. that's up to our attorney general. >> when the president made that comment, bill barr had already said publicly on multiple occasions that she does not have a problem with mueller testifying. the president's shift in tone comes as a house judiciary source tells nbc news so date is set for mueller to testify before the committee but that talks are ongoing. the senate side, chairman graham has already sent a letter to mueller offering him the opportunity to testify about, quote, any misrepresentation by the attorney general of the substance of a phone call that mueller had with barr about barr's four-page summary of the mueller report. here is barr's description of that phone call. >> i said, bob, what's with the letter? you know? why don't you just pick up the phone and call me if there's an issue? and he said that they were concerned about the

bob mueller may well indict the president. it would have been arguably better than if you made that determination early on for people to understand that their expectations it might have been better know the answer to that. obviously if he did make -- i think part of the reason you do that is to provide evidence for other people for not bound by that opinion. >> other people meaning the congress, right? >> a lot of other people. potentially other people who might be able to bring a prosecution after the president leaves office. >> the attorney general bill barr testified that mueller quote emphatically was not saying that but for the olc office of legal counsel opinion, he would have filed obstruction. did the attorney general misrepresent the special counsel? >> i don't know if that's the right verb. clearly the attorney general in various statements, including that one. sought to leave some impression that wasn't what bob mueller thought. we know that from the back and forth letters from bob mueller and the attorney general.

>> yes. >> and the answer is no according to bob mueller? >> that's right. >> he could not decide about ob instruction and you did, is that right? >> yes. >> do you feel good about your decision? >> absolutely. >> thank you very much. >> chairman, mr. attorney general, the special counselcou report describes how the president directs don mcgahn to fire special council mueller and later told mcgahn to write a letter for our record stating that the president had not ordered him to fire mueller. it also recounts how the president made repeated efforts to get mcgahn to change his story. knowing that the president believes mcgahn's recollection of the results were false, that the president tried to change mcgahn's account to prevent further scrutiny of the president forward the investigation. special counsel also found that mcgahn is an incredible witness that can lie and exaggerate given the position he had in the white house. does existing law prohibit efforts to get a witness to lie, to say something the witness believes is false? >> yes. lie

on the other hand he's admitting that bob mueller should have called him, that bob mueller wrote him a letter because of mischaracterizations on his report. our founders had a word for people like bill barr. they called them people who tried to get to personal gain. we need people in that office who care about the truth. >> yesterday was clearly important, the dialog back and forth, the questions answered, the unanswered questions. but we just had jay sob cob on, talking about human beings here and at least 55 children right now, the united states government is running an orphanage caught at the border and it continues to be really unaddressed. what are we going to do about a situation like that? >> it's unconscionable. we track amazon packages in this country better than the trump administration has tracked those young kids. the oversight committee is working on getting information because as the reporting has shown, there's still thousands of kids in this country who have not been reunited with their parents. and i agree, people like steven miller and others, this is intentional cr

>> yeah but i mean, this is bob mueller being bob mueller in this particular case. he's going to be fair and follow the law and the fact that he wrote this letter tells me that he was not amused that the context of those four page letter that barr did. at the same time he'd follow it. i'm not sure if i were him i wouldn't take the bait about saying listen these circumstances and any other circumstances obstruction of justice are two very different things and i'm not going to be speculative. that's the answer i would give if i were him because he's in a bad spot. it's not necessarily a hot mess but it's certainly a spicy disaster. you're going to ask him to come in and you know he has differences with barr. he's going to try to fan those flames. >> remember he already had it. >> he's going to try to maintain his character in this whole process. >> remember he had the reporting that the reporter from the new york times on the show earlier had it already that mueller's team wasn't happy about this. >> that had leaked out and we heard it. investigators were not pleased.