the committee heard from henry kerner, the special office for the special counsel. >> the committee will come to order.

at henry kerner, who heads the office of special counsel.

questions were directed that henry kerner, who heads the office of special counsel.

republican henry kerner. this office has nothing to do with robert mueller's office which is also a special counsel's office established within the justice department. henry kerner was counsel to the house oversight committee when it was chaired by darrell issa. he was the staffer director of investigations for the house oversight committee whether it was chaired by republican republican jason chai vets. his washington resume is purely republican and highly partisan and he even he could not abide the conduct of kellyanne conway. in his letter to the president, henry kerner said if miss conway were any other federal employee, her multiple violations of the law would almost certainly result in removal from his position. miss conway say repeat offender. never has the office of special counsel had to issue multiple reports to the president concerning hatch act violations by the same individual. never. there has never been a kellyanne conway on the federal government payroll before. the special counsel's 17-page r

here's part of what the official in charge of that agency, his name is henry kerner. by the way, he was appointed by president trump. he said ms. conway's violations, if left unpunished, would send a message to all federal employees that they need not abide by the hatch act's restrictions, her actions thus erode the foundations of our democratic system, the rule of law. let's discuss. walter shaub is here and rick wilson. gentlemen, good evening. mr. shaub, let's talk about this. i think that, you know, we can all agree that kellyanne conway won't be fired and i imagine that this counsel, a trump appointee, knows that too. but still he is taking a stand. >> you know, there was a story recently where "the new york times" called something an existential question. but this is an existential question for the agency that enforces the hatch act, the office of special counsel, which of course isn't related to robert mueller. she's saying publicly -- saying words that signal she's not going to comply with it. like when does they jail sentence start. if they can't see her disc

the official in charge of the federal watchdog agency, his name is henry kerner, who was appointed by the way by president trump, he tells "the washington post" that his recommendation that conway be fired is unprecedented. and then he goes on to say this. you know what else is unprecedented, kellyanne conway's behavior in interview after interview she uses her official capacity to disparage announced candidates, which is not allowed. he calls her a repeat ochblder for slamming democrats running to oppose president trump in 2020. >> i've yet to see presidential timber. i just see a bunch of presidential woodchips, amy klobuchar, change the "o" to -- and -- >> she's going to -- >> she's been lying about it, kirsten gillibrand, in her 50s, apparently the first time she's ever eaten fried chicken and waited for the cameras to roll. this is silly stuff. going to be held to account for the obama/biden legacy. >> this isn't the first time. she also slammed then candidate, now alabama senator, doug jones on two different occasions back in 2017, prompting this exchange with our own chris cuom

>> i sat in henry kerner's shoes, the agency that recommended her firing because she violated the standards of conduct when i was leading the government ethics and just as the white house ignored me, they are ignoring henry kerner. the difference is that kernor is a trump appointee. individual candidates and political parties while being interviewed on television and on her twitter page, which the office of special counsel not related to mueller, the agency that does this, found was essentially an official account because she tweets so much government information on it. the defenses from the white house have ranged from saying this is a violation of her first amendment rights, which the courts have rejected, to now a new one saying that somehow the hatch act doesn't apply to senior white house officials. but these are actually rather extreme positions for the white house to take, and they're not going to be supported in any form, whether by congress or in a court or anywhere else. >> thank you, walter, for making us smarter. we appreciate it. walter schaub. one of the largest online furnitu

henry kerner gave a statement to foxnews.com, he said i'm a trump appointee, i had no animus whatsoever. my job is to make sure the federal workforce stays as the politicized and as fair as possible, that's the whole origin of the idea of the hatch act. >> that's the goal, i think kellyanne conway has made a decision i don't respect this law, i'm going to keep saying what i'm saying and we will see if there are any consequences for her. it seems like there won't be. i'm not an attorney, i looked at what the law says and what some of the allegations are. it seems cut and dried she was crossing the line of what she is not supposed to do. if the law is supposed to apply to people in her position and it doesn't, maybe it's time to change the law and if not, we will see some consequences and i'm not going to hold my breath. the president has wide latitude and loves when she is doubling down and being defiant because it's right in his wheelhouse. >> shannon: she might get erased. buck sexton who was on a short minute to go he tweeted as someone who used to work in the federal government, i ca

why is henry kerner scream something you pointed out he was appointed by donald trump. he was a long time operative of the conservative movement. republican lawyer. >> this is not a hit job by someone on the left. the reason he is screaming and saying things like if left unpunished her actions erode the foundation of our democratic system and rule of law. we have laws in this country and if the president can say to officials they don't apply to you, ignore them am, what happens to the system. the president said ignore the finance laws. today he said ignore the hatch act. what's it going to be tomorrow. ignore bribery laws. at what point do we cease to be a government of laws and not of man. >> what is the recourse. this is so maddening about watching all of this unfold. okay, literally a sternly worded scream from the office of special counsel and kellyanne conway is like when is the jail sentence starting? the president is of course i take it. who is to stop anyone from doing anything. >> there in lies the problem. there is no recourse. the assumption is if congress pa

this report was issued by pecial counsel henry kerner. mr. kerner leads the office of special counsel. the independent agency charged with enforcing the hatch act. listen to this. mr. kerner was nominated to his position by president trump in 2017. and all of the republicans and democrats in the senate approved his nomination by a voice vote. mr. kerner worked on the republican staff of this very committee for several years under both chairman darrell issa and jason chaffetz. in this report, the special counsel describes, and i quote, persistent, notorious and deliberate hatch act violations, end of quote. this report explains how ms. conway violated the law dozens of times, by using her official position to criticize democratic candidates and support republican candidates. i should not have to say this, but obviously that is against the law. it is against federal law. unfortunately this was not the first time the special counsel ms. ed the president and conway violated the law. in 2018 special counsel sent president trump a report finding th

kerner, i would like to welcome henry j. kerner, office of special counsel. if you would rise and raise your right hand. i will begin by swearing you in. oath]g show that the witness answered in the affirmative. i want to thank you for being here. mr. kerner, i remind you since you're familiar with the hearing room, being in these settings, the the record. without objection, your written statement will be made part of the record. there has been a lot said of the ranking member. address --e he would you would address some of those issues. with that, you are recognized. five minutes. >> i have a prepared statement but since the iron -- the ranking member mentioned the irs targeting scandal, i thought i would point out when i was working on the senate side, we authored a 37 page report criticizing the irs for targeting conservative groups and tea party groups. i was the author of that report. we were very strong in making clear that that was unacceptable and that the irs should not have targeted the conservative groups. >> no kidding. >> do not interfere with th

kerner, i would like to welcome henry j. kerner, office of special counsel. if you would rise and raise your right hand. i will begin by swearing you in. [ giving oath ] let the -- you may be seated. let the record show that the witness answered in the affirmative. i want to thank you for being here. mr. kerner, i remind you since you're familiar with the hearing room, being in these settings, the for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have a prepared statement, since the ranking member mentioned the irs targeting scandal, i thought i would point out when i was working on the senate side, we authored a 37 page report criticizing the irs for targeting conservative groups and tea party groups. i was the author of that report. we were very strong in making clear that that was unacceptable and that the irs should not have targeted the conservative groups. >> no kidding. >> do not interfere with the witness. let him testify. no, no, no, no, no. he's talking. >> sorry. i just want to make that clear. otherwise, good morning to chairman cummings and to rank

here is henry kerner. >> she has the right to free speech. we're upholding free speech rights. what we're saying is there are some limits on that free speech while she is on duty to insure that we have the depoliticized workforce. >> you and i know this and for the folks at home that aren't awash in washington politics. the hatch act limits what government employees can and can't do with respect to political activities. but to hear the president tell it, kellyanne was asked a question. in his mind it's a free speech issue. >> president trump: no, i'm not going to fire her. she have has been loyal. she is a great person. i would certainly not think based on what i saw yesterday how could you do that? they have tried to take away her speech and i think you are entitled to free speech in this country. >> he would look at a more detailed briefing about the hatch act but laid it out in four words. she is not going anywhere. >> sandra: kevin corke on a busy morning at the white house. thank you. more on this with our headliner this morning. louisiana congressman steve scalise, house