glen dubin is one of them. could it possibly be these people didn't actually know the extent of what he had done? if he went to jail for soliciting a prostitute that could be something people would say, listen. this isn't good. it's not great but i forgive you. is there a chance they did not know the extent to the possible wrongdoing or what he is accused of now? >> look, stephanie, kate, kelly is a fabulous reporter and i respect everything she does. i'm really wondering frankly whether there's just a lot of myth making going on now about jeffrey epstein and his, you know, tax and accounting prowess, his money management prowess. i think this is all a narrative being created to cover up something much deeper and darker that we don't know what it is yet, because i'm sorry you don't give somebody a mansion on east 71st street that's now apparently worth $77 million just because you're managing his money. >> we don't have evidence of that though. at this point, gifting a mansion to jeffrey epstein at this point i