you mentioned rudy giuliani. the "post" reports that democrats are already examining whether trump and rudy giuliani sought to manipulate ukrainian government into helping trump's re-election campaign. giuliani just told chris that he did ask ukraine to investigate joe biden after first denying that. what's your reaction? >> my reaction is, what is rudy's role? he says he does something and then tells the president. as an attorney for ten years i absolutely never did that. is he acting in his official capacity or unofficial capacity? obviously he isn't in any official position where he had to be approved by the senate. what acts are he carrying out? how much of it is for his personal gain? how much of it is to broke the president of the united states? carry out methods that can only be described as byzantine and bizarre. >> congressman, the acting dni, joseph mcguire, will appear before your committee next week. how do you get him to change his mind and release this complaint to you? >> i don't know that we will.

rudy giuliani's cellphone number as well. so that also feels like a next too a bit. >> i think that it is something to probe. i think -- i get the sense that the attorney general is a lot more careful than giuliani. and so i would expect that there may have been conversations,but given what a loose cannon giuliani has been, somebody with a career like the attorney general's he i think would be very, very careful about what he shared with giuliani. >> and, you know, we may come to the point where he claims that there may be a point where barr might be forced to have to name a special counsel. i imagine mr. barr is looking for every way to avoid that outcome. but i don't -- you know, it is amazing how low he is trying to fly. >> the way that i see it, there is no difference between bill w barr, rudy giuliani and michael cohen. bill barr decided a long time ago before he even jumped into the position that he was going to be a fixer for donald trump. that he is donald trump's personal lawyer. >> you know, i understand that that i

president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani subpoenaed. house democrats seeking documents related to ukraine. the basis of this fast-moving impeachment inquiry. and all of this comes as the new cnn polling just released unveils that 47% of americans say president trump should be impeached and removed from office. cnn's evan perez joining us live. so what more are you learn being this subpoena? >> reporter: well, this is something that certainly people close to the president were anticipating. they expected that this moment was going to come. and so they've been kind of preparing as to what to answer the question of what is the privilege, the president's personal attorney and will they declare some kind of privilege and so you could expect that is where this conversation is going to go next. but i should point out that there is a couple of complications. rudy giuliani last week in an appearance on fox news shared some information, some text messages he said that were -- with kurt volker who was at the time the envoy to ukraine for the admin

is the president actually retaining rudy giuliani as his counsel in some kind of matter or is rudy giuliani basically acting as an unpaid political volunteer on the president's behalf? so a lot of questions about that and about that kind of privilege that he's trying to assert here. democrats would be smart to push back against that, but also i mean, the universe of people they need to hear from is fairly large. >> what are you hearing about how the white house is preparing for this impeachment process, which is moving very rapidly? >> there's been a lot of talk in the last couple of days about whether they would try to, as the clinton administration did, set up some kind of war room. this was also bandied about concerning the mueller investigation and they didn't do it. jay sekulow, one of the president's personal lawyers, did say they are not setting up a formal war room. they're batting down that idea. one of the people they had floated for leading that was corey lewandowski, and now they're saying they're just not going to go with that strategy. >> it's very interesting, because the hou

rudy giuliani, who frankly, let's just be honest, he sounded unhinged. bobbing, weaving, insulting, going on tangents, trying to distract with wild and free -- evidence-free claims about joe biden and saying this to chris tonight. >> will you finally answer my question now that we're 12 minutes in? >> do we really believe he didn't know his son was under investigation? >> why won't you answer the question? >> what's the question? >> thank you. did the president talk to the ukrainian president about what he wanted done with joe biden and what he wanted done with paul manafort? >> i have no idea, i never asked him that, i don't know if he did, and i wouldn't care if he did, he had every right to do it as president. he had every right to say to the ukrainian president, we have two outstanding allegations of massive corruption -- >> did he ask you to do what you were doing? >> no, i did what i did on my own -- >> really? >> and then i told him about it afterwards because i'm his lawyer. >> believe me, we've got a whole lot more on the breaking news tonight.

rudy giuliani now on monster.com or wherever one like rudy giuliani goes when he needs a good lawyer. he's going to need one. joyce, what does it mean, that he's now in the center of not just donald trump's conservative media shenanigans, not just in the center of donald trump's defense and spin efforts for the mule are probe, now smack-dab in the middle of impeachment investigation that have now risen to 55%, public opinion swinging more than ten points in days. it has to at least have something to do with the mayhem and chaos that rudy giuliani brings to all presidential conduct, vis-a-vis donald trump and foreign policy. >> you know, rudy giuliani would have been my first choice for a witness to subpoena right now, too. the reason for that is there's a compelling timeline of conduct involving giuliani and ukraine. i think when it's all put on sort of one level timeline by the intelligence, by the oversight committee staffer for giuliani's testimony, we'll all by surprised by how much of that conduct has been happening in plain sight, and how it all adding up to paint a really compe

giuliani -- excuse me -- the president's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, has resigned. cnn's pamela brown starts us off tonight. what are you learning first of all about this resignation? >> reporter: we've learned the white house, the resignation of volker -- sorry, is that what you're asking me about? >> actually, let's start with how the conversations themselves were handled. >> reporter: the conversations, okay. there's a lot of news, anderson. conversations because we have learned that efforts to limit access to president trump's conversations with foreign leaders extended to phone calls with crown prince mohammed bin salman and russian leader vladimir putin, according to people familiar with the matter. now, those calls were among the presidential conversations that aides took remarkable steps to keep from becoming public. in the case of trump's calls with prince mohammed, officials who ordinarily would have been given access to a rough transcript of the conversation never saw one according to one of the sources. instead, anderson, a transcript was never even circ

giuliani -- excuse me, the president's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, has resigned. cnn's pamela brown starts us off. what are you learning fireman about the resignation? >> reporter: we've learned the white house, the resignation of volker -- sorry, is that what you're asking me about? >> actually, let's start with how the conversations themselves were handled. >> reporter: the conversations, okay, there's a lot of news. let's talk about the conversations because we have learned that efforts to limit access to president trump's conversations with foreign leaders extended to phone calls with crown prince mohammed bin salman and russian leader vladimir putin, according to people familiar with the matter. now those calls were among the presidential conversations that aides took remarkable steps to keep from becoming public. in the case of trump's calls with prince mohammed, officials who ordinarily would have been given access to a rough transcript of the conversation never saw one. according to one of the sources. instead, anderson, a transcript was never even circula

that's rudy giuliani. the other important piece of context here, the july 25th phone call is the second time that president trump and president zelensky had spoken. the first time was back in april of this year and as we understand it or at least has been reported, it was also in that april phone call where president trump encouraged for the first time president zelensky to have his people meet with rudy giuliani. this was not about one phone call. this was a converted effort over the period of months involving communications between these two presidents and presumably and i think perhaps just as worrisome, efforts on the part of others within our government to subvert american foreign policy and to put rudy giuliani, a private citizen, in charge of matters that have profound importance to our national security. >> ned and joshings thank you very much. up next, what the president said about the whistleblower today behind closed doors. eli has the tape. and he joins me next. ns mnee xt! hey. this is amazing

president, on rudy giuliani. wipe was it appropriate for nor personal attorney to get involved in government business? >> ask rudy. i will tell you this. that rudy's looking to also find out where the phony witch-hunt started, how it started. a russian witch hurnt turned ou to be two and a half years of phony nonsense. rudy giuliani is a great lawyer, he was a great mayor, he's highly respected. i've watched the passion he'd had on television over the last few days. incredible what he's done. what he has done, he wants to find out where did this russian witch-hunt you people helped perpetrate, where did it start? how come it started? all nonsense. it was a hoax. a total hoax. it was a media hoax and a democrat hoax. where did it start? and rudy's got every right to go and find out where that started and other people are looking at that, too. where did it start? the enablers? where did it all come from? can out of thin air and he has every right to do it. he's a good lawyer, knows exactly what he's doing and it's

i don't know who pays rudy giuliani, i don't know what his job is. he talks about being the president's lawyer. i don't see him doing lawyer work. i don't know if he was someone who was told to have these meetings by the state department. i don't know what his arguments are, what his relationship with the president is and how confidential those communications should be. i do think there should be a lot of questions asked of mr. giuliani, and by the way, his own boasts, gallivanting around the world conducting foreign policy and doing dirty work for the president. >> preet bharara, thanks so much for joining us. very quickly, the president is going after the whistle-blower and those officials at the white house who helped him. but joseph maguire, the acting director of national intelligence, in his three-hour testimony today, he was praising the whistle-blower for doing exactly the right thing. >> yes. so whether, you know, he doesn't want to call him a hero, or the president's admirers want to follow the president's lead and take him down, it's impor

rudy giuliani needs to be subpoenaed tomorrow. he's tried to suggest it was the state department ordering him forward. i don't think that's going to hold up. if he, of course, is acting as trump's personal attorney, nothing is going to be privileged. everything he had to say with zelensky is going to come out. and then, of course, as you say, the transcript, if you read it, is maybe 50% of the call. there are el lip sis in the transcript. there's much more color and nuance that make it a lot worse. as matt says, boy, if they thought this was the way to staunch the blood, what underlies it and what will come out next. >> do we know, harry, why there seems to be this narrow focus on campaign finance reform violation? >> yeah. well, that was just what the referral was. intelligence officials happened to see this. the conversation is the 25th. around mid august intelligence officials see this and refer it -- you refer it for a specific violation. that's what they refer. as you know from the stormy daniels affair, you need to be tradin

>> you can ask rudy giuliani. but keep in mind rudy giuliani -- >> what about congress? >> that conversation happened -- chuck, if you'd let me answer, that conversation with president zelensky happened right after the mueller report came out after two years of an investigation. rudy giuliani was the president's personal attorney in that case. so, again, you can ask rudy what he was doing. i know that what president trump talked about was continuing to find out what happened with russian interference in the 2016 election because he has been standing up to rsia and there's a strong record, by the way, of how president trump has stood up to russia when barack obama wouldn't and joe biden was vice president and they wouldn't stand up to russia. >> do you think it was appropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader for help investigating his chief political rival for 2020? >> again, go look at what he talked about in that conversation. he was talking about the 2016 interference that happened in our election. look, there have been media reports for years, joe biden hims

and now rudy giuliani is playing that job. i think we have to take a step back and realize there's a broader context here. no limit, no boundaries. that's how donald trump has lived his life personally, as a businessman, and conducted himself as president. those are the facts. and whether the minority leader in the house kevin mccarthy who i thought was a republican who stood for national security and i'm sure he's got statements in the past with the invasion of crimea in the ukraine now all of a sudden doesn't want to go near this topic because he thinks democrats are coming after the president given what the president has said he already did. so the fact that giuliani is freelancing here is really at the behest of the president. the fact that mike pompeo is going on television saying the bidens should be investigated for something that is completely unfounded. when he's secretary of state, he's supposed to be running foreign policy. not trying to get a foreign leader to provide political dirt to help the president of the uni

the process as rudy giuliani has alleged. the state department has not replied to our requests for comment. last week secretary pompeo did claim that to his knowledge, everyone at the state department had acted entirely appropriately. we are waiting for an update from them. >> waiting for that response. >> michael, when it comes to this possible subpoena, you are learning more about whether rudy giuliani would cooperate and there are questions of attorney/client privilege and how it comes into play. what are you finding? >> it could be a little confusing of that clip of what rudy giuliani is willing to do. he does not commit to not or appearing to if he's subpoenaed. what he's trying to do here is muddy the water to get out this information that he believes that adam schiff, the dell je intelligence committee. what you press him relying on the idea that i have to talk to my client. rudy giuliani's client is the president of the united states. he's putting the ball in president trump's court here whether or not he'll testify a

>> you can ask rudy giuliani. but keep in mind rudy giuliani -- >> what about congress? >> that conversation happened -- chuck, if you'd let me answer, that conversation with president zelensky happened right after the mueller report came out after two years of an investigation. rudy giuliani was the president's personal attorney in that case. so, again, you can ask rudy what he was doing. i know that what president trump talked about was continuing to find out what happened with russian interference in the 2016 election because he has been standing up to russia and there's a strong record, by the way, of how president trump has stood up to russia when barack obama wouldn't and joe biden was vice president and they wouldn't stand up to russia. >> do you think it was appropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader for help investigating his chief political rival for 2020? >> again, go look at what he talked about in that conversation. he was talking about the 2016 interference that happened in our election. look, there have been media reports for years, joe biden hi

look, rudy giuliani is clearly a central part of this story. we're going to learn more, but i wouldn't put any of this at the foot of rudy giuliani. i think all the of this is on the president of the united states. >> he says he'll be the hero in all of this, jim. >> yes, he has said this with volume. carey cordero, the white house has the ability to throw up road blocks. whether they do is another question. road blocks like they have thrown on other investigations, just flat-out refuse d i do see them trying to implement a strategy, especially because a number of the individuals that the complainant describes are penal who worked in the white house, so the complainant says people who worked in the white house came -- different people reporting the same deeply held concerns. so i do think the white house will open that. that is where congress is going to have to push back strongly, and where i think we saw a change this week all republicans in the senate voted that the administration needed to provide the whistle-blower complaint to the house a

someone who has knowledge of what happened with rudy giuliani and rudy giuliani's efforts to try to push ukraine to investigate the bidens. that's not the only thing the committee plans to be doing. a closed door meeting with michael atkinson said the whistleblower's complaint was urgent and credible. he came quickly before they seen the whistleblower's complaint. schiff warned last night that he plan to issue a subpoena to rudy giuliani to get documents and that could happen early this week. we can expect a big push to get information. poppy, ultimately the question for democrats they don't get compliance, what do they do? i am told from a number of democrats they're not going to engage in a prolong back and forth with the administration of a legal fight as we seen. >> one thing to ask for, we have seen how the white house refused over and over and time and time gef again. manu, thank you very much. let's talk about this. our analyst, alex burns is here. our national political analyst and ron browstein, good morning. >> mulvaney was on shaky ground because where was the white house's st

rudy giuliani is rudy giuliani. my take away from today was another letter that the ig for the odni sent to congress. in that letter it becomes clear this is not some trump trying to get policy change in the letter that was disclosed today the ig again says this is an issue of grave concern. we should interpret to not being a policy issue. or someone who heard something passing in the hall way. then adds this piece. it is something that most significant and important of the odni duty. in other words it relates to american democracy. and the ability if it is the ukraine the ability of the election to be free and pristine from foreign influence. that letter along with the "washington post" reporting tieing it to the ukraine. suggests this cuts to the core of the democratic process and not going away for the white house. no matter how much they release election security funding or anything that they're going to do in the next couple days to get ahead of this story. >> a lot of people asking does the president have a ri

will they get rudy giuliani in the chair? but if you're building a case, or what impeachment is is a political trial, sometimes it's the impeachment we don't know much about publicly who will give you the clues, if you will, the crumbs, if you will. the ambassador and kurt volcker, democrats believe, can take us beyond the president's call. they believe this was going on weeks and months in advance and that the former ambassador and the former special envoy know all the critical pieces, a, about what rudy giuliani was doing, and b, how much government resources went into this. >> absolutely. they played a role into hearing from the state department, hearing from rudy giuliani who wants to come over and meet with these people, helping set the meetings up, and they know where the pressure points were, especially relating to the $400 million in aid in military and state department aid that was held up that is also a piece of this. so that's sort of the first stumbling blocks they have to get through. and eventually, you know, th

. >> let's talk about rudy giuliani, because he's been saying even by rudy giuliani standards some really kind of eyebrow-raising things. he said to alana plott who is acting, he said, i'm not acting as a lawyer. anything he did should be praised. then he said, if this guy is a whistleblower, then i'm a whistleblower, too. you should be happy for your country that i've uncovered this. what's happening, jeff? you've covered the white house a lot, you've covered rudy giuliani. what do you make of this? >> it's hard to explain. in this case it's giuliani trying to say that everything he's doing was right but sort of ignoring the fact that what he was doing in ukraine was absolutely on behalf of a client. and he has said that, that he was working on behalf of his client who was president donald trump. that has clearly blurred some lines for out crathe ukrainnian created problems for the state department as well. >> he showed text messages, then what we're hearing from the state department envoy is basically -- or the reporting about the objective of the state department envoy was they were so

so you know rudy giuliani a long time. i want to play more of what he said early this week he was on fox news. proclaiming as we heard that he is the whistle-blower here. he's the one uncovering corruption. what do you make of his role in all this? >> you're right, rudy giuliani from the time that he was mayor, you know, he divided this city like no other mayor. in my lifetime. he was an individual that only met with certain folks and had game plan that you know, it was you always have a thin line almost with him between someone who was a prosecutor, became mayor, to someone who was a mob guy you know because he ran his office and things of that nature. that's what rudy giuliani looks like he's doing right now. he's the president's enforcer. he's the president's guy that he sends out to try to be the bull dog. >> he's named in those notes the memo from the whistle-blower complaint there over two dozen times and i know he played it before. but i want to play a little bit of his exchange with senate minority leader chuck sch

i think that's what we're seeing with rudy giuliani. trump has good civil lawyers. i don't think he has good criminal representation and has no idea how the law works. >> all right, that thanks very much. >>> with congress contemplating a possible impeachment of president trump, i'll talk with another veteran of watergate. stay with us. ♪ dealing with psoriatic arthritis pain was so frustrating. my skin... it was embarrassing. my joints... they hurt. the pain and swelling. the tenderness. the psoriasis. i had to find something that worked on all of this. i found cosentyx. now, watch me. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are getting real relief with cosentyx. it's a different kind of targeted biologic. cosentyx treats more than just the joint pain of psoriatic arthritis. it even helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms. if your inflammatory bowel diseas

>> you can ask rudy giuliani. that and the chairman himself said he's not even sure if he would bring brudy. keep in mind, the chairman said a lot of things, made a lot of baseless accusations. chairman schiff was the one for two years saying he had more than circumstantial evidence that president trump colluded with russia on the mueller investigation. and that turned out not to be true. and so instead of saying okay, we were wrong, let's move on, they continue to go down this road of impeachment regardless of the facts. they have said that there were high crimes and misdemeanors. the actual author of the articles of impeachment just recently a few days ago said that if they don't impeach president trump he might get re-elected. he will get re-elected, is what he said. the framers did not put the power of impeachment in the constitution so that you could stop somebody from getting elected who was dually elected in 2016. it's a high crime and misdemeanor standards and they should take that with the respect it dese

rudy giuliani is rudy giuliani. i think my takeaway from today was another letter that the ig for the odni sent to congress. in that letter it becomes clear this is not some trump trying to get policy change in the letter that was disclosed today the ig again says this is an issue of grave concern. we should interpret to not being a policy issue. it is not just someone who heard something passing in the hallway, but then adds this piece which it is something that most significant and important of the odni duty. in other words it relates to american democracy. and the ability if it is the ukraine the ability of the election to be free and pristine from foreign influence. that letter along with the "washington post" reporting tieing it to the ukraine. suggests this cuts to the core of the democratic process and not going away for the white house. no matter how much they release election security funding or anything that they're going to do in the next couple days to get ahead of this story. >> asha, a lot of people as

up next, rudy giuliani says he's going to be considered a hero. we're going to have new reporting on joe biden himself. our team's inside look at how his campaign is trying to capitalize on the complaint and fight back hard. hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. and now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. johnsbut we're also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. f

that's not what this is and rudy giuliani's quite clear. he says oh, the state department knew everything i was doing and wanted me to do all of this stuff. so that's the question for pompeo. it was striking to me to hear secretary pompeo over the weekend carrying the president's water repeating all of these claims against former vice president biden. he's been stunningly silent since then over whether rudy giuliani is his guy and that's the question, is he your guy or not? >> i think they'll ask him to testify. bill barr, the attorney general released a statement saying i didn't know about any of this. sthfs, you kno this is all news to me and remember the recusal and remember the last time what happened to an attorney general when he recused himself from donald trump. >> exhibit a, sessions? >> he got fired. so barr decided not to do that. i can't say that's the reason, but on its face, it seems to me when your name anies up in krgz like this and the president is turning you like a lackey. i would have concern about that and i wonder if t

. >> will you call rudy giuliani? >> we're going to need evidence from rudy giuliani. it's our intention as soon as first thing next week, to subpoena him for documents. and there may very well come a time when we want to hear from him directly. >> giuliani was noncommittal to cnn. i'm not saying i will or i will not. on abc, he contradicted himself. >> i won't cooperate with adam schiff. if they put a neutral person in who hasn't prejudged the case, if they put in a democrat, who hasn't expressed an opinion. >> you said you wouldn't do it. >> i said i would consider it. i have to be guided by my client. i'm a lawyer. it's his privilege, not mine. if he decides he wants me to testify, of course, i'll testify. i think adam schiff is an illegitimate chairman. >>> house and senate republicans are rushing to the president's defense. graham said the whistleblower was hearsay, even though everything was confirmed with the transcript of mr. trump's call with the ukrainian president. >> you can't get a parking ticket convicti

rudy giuliani versus the state department? >> well, in order to defend himself and the instructions that he said that he received, the authorization he received from the state department, rudy giuliani has read to many of us in the press corps text messages he received from the former envoy to ukraine, mr. volker, that his actions were in fact, authorized and approved. we joked around about rudy's bombast on tv and calling reporters idiots and so on. one thing that has happened is rudy giuliani, by repeating this message, has raised questions, justified by the evidence or not, about joe biden and his son hunter and their activities in ukraine. and he has raised that to the top of the agenda in a way that is effective, at least to the extent that you can see all of us are talking about it. >> doing it again this morning on abc and cbs. he's a guy who likes texts. he's a source who texts. a rare thing. i appreciate it. up next on "up", he has been pushing for impeachment long before this week. 2020 contender tom steyer's reactio

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. >> reporter: earlier this year rudy giuliani planned then cancelled a trip to ukraine. he later met with a representative for ukraine's president to discuss biden. ukrainian prosecutor general said in an interview in may that he had no proof joe biden or his son did anything wrong. an entity connected to hunter biden made in millions with its work but from my point of view a board member can be paid whatever a company decides. they didn't violate any ukrainian laws. whether the board members violated u.s. law is not for me the judge. sarah murray, cnn, washington. >>> how the 2020 presidential race is shifting and getting a bit rough. panera's new warm grain bowls are full of good. full of flavor, color, full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today. panera. food as it should be. frstill, we never stoppedss wmaking it stronger.e. faster. smarter. because to be the best, is to never ever stop making it better. the 2020 c-class family. lease the c 300 sedan for just $429 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the bes

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what does all this mean for rudy giuliani? >> you know, i've seen rudy giuliani now within the scope of a week ranting on numerous networks and cable networks including your own, sounding totally, totally lost and making stuff up as he goes and increasingly desperate and and i don't know what he's talking about with respect to the state department. look, if the state department's involved in this kind of thing, that would suggest that secretary pompeo is also involved in this. i don't see any sort of frontline, you know, foreign service officers or state department folks saying, hey, rudy giuliani, come on over here. we want to send you to the ukraine to investigate this on behalf of the president. that just doesn't add up. so rudy giuliani has clearly, at the center of this, and we need to remember. rudy giuliani is president trump's personal lawyer. he is the agent of president trump. so if the president tries to throw rudy giuliani -- rudy under the bus going forward as he sometimes does with others he's not going to be abl

giuliani, he basically confirmed all of the nefarious things that have been reported about rudy giuliani and his conduct, and also implicating, i think, the state department and the secretary of state, as well as the attorney general. the attorney general, i never believed that he should have been put into that position, but he should recuse himself. and he also has to be called, i believe, as a witness in this matter. so there are so many different things that have gone on today, very significant things that i think add up to an abuse of power by this president. >> what would you ask bill barr and how soon do democrats intend to make him speak? >> well, we're obviously discussing that right now, but the speaker said very clearly that she wanted this process to move expeditiously, so i suspect that that will probably be in the next few weeks. >> do you think that you're now at a point where the president is open ly orchestrating international collusion to go after democrats, and if so, who's to believe it would stop only at joe biden? do you think others are in danger? what is the level

. >> will you call rudy giuliani? >> we're going to need evidence from rudy giuliani. it's our intention as soon as first thing next week, to subpoena him for documents. and there may very well come a time when we want to hear from him directly. >> giuliani was noncommittal to cnn. quote, i'm not saying i will or i will not. on abc, he was more self-contradictory. >> i won't cooperate with adam schiff. if they put a neutral person in who hasn't prejudged the case, if they put in a democrat, who hasn't expressed an opinion. >> you said you wouldn't do it. >> i said i would consider it. i have to be guarding my client. i'm a lawyer. it's his privilege, not mine. if he decides he wants me to testify, of course, i'll testify. i think adam schiff is an illegitimate chairman. >> he said he would not cooperate. then, he said he would consider it. then, he said adam schiff is illegitimate. the tape is clear there. >>> house republicans are rushing to the president's defense. he said the whistleblower was hearsay, even though

president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani approached him in may for a meeting. he's known for his claims, the democrats included with ukrainian officials against trump in 2016. he says the two men spent six hours discussing a range of issues. >> my insights on what's happen i ing. vice president biden, what my thought was -- >> this was a priority for giuliani? >> yes, he doesn't hide it, it's his work, that's what he was hired to do to represent the president of the united states and his personal interests. >> by trying to further conspiracy theories about the president's political opponents? >> no. we need to investigate this properly. >> sergei disagrees. giuliani began applying pressure to investigate the bidens shortly after the election. >> i knew it, sure, for giuliani it was interesting. to use this information on the u.s. >> you think he was focused on it for the president or? >> for sure. not for his private purposes. >> we know -- on behalf of his client. >> this wasn't a secret? >> it was clear. >> clarissa ward joins how this controversy being recei

rudy giuliani has been subpoenasubpoen subpoenaed. house democrats announcing they have subpoenaed the president's person attorney for those documents related to ukraine. rudy giuliani is at the center of the impeachment investigation mentioned 31 times described as a central figure in efforts to pressure ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election. there's growing questions tonight about another member of the president's inner circle. cnn is learning the secretary of state, mike pompeo, was on that july 25th phone call when the president asked ukraine's president to dig up dirt on joe biden. this comes as president trump says he's trying to uncover the identity of the whistle-blower. >> do you know who the whistle-blower is sir? >> we're trying to find out about a whistle-blower. when you have a whistle-blower that reports things that were incorrect. >> here is how an attorney for the whistle-blower is responding tonight tweeting quote, the intel community whistle-blower is entitled to anonymity, law and policy support this and the ind

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what do you make of rudy giuliani's role in this? and just the way he seems to reveal things right before they're going to come out. >> there is a method to his madness. he knows what he's doing. he's going to deliver the bad news before we know about it or before the president is mentioned in it, and he's going to try to shape the story before the story comes out. i mean, he's back. this is what giuliani did, as you showed really well here during the mueller report. and this is what he's trying to do now. and effectively take the fall himself to a certain degree because he knows more is about to unspool itself in terms of the president's role in all of this and his phone call with the ukranians. >> just because you admit something, ervin, like it's no big deal doesn't mean it's not a big deal. that doesn't inoculate you against the consequences of doing something that is wrong. >> no, that's absolutely right. and the intelligence community and inspector general has come out and said this is a big deal and urges concern that warrants

can get rudy giuliani. i think the court -- the congress can call him in and tell him if he doesn't talk, they're going to lock him off. >> but, jeff, can he say attorney-client privilege what he discussed with the president? >> he is in a peculiar legal situation. obviously the congress can't ask him about his conversations with donald trump, but i don't see why they can't ask him about his conversations in ukraine, or particularly his conversations with the state department. >> they don't have to. he has been texting it to us all night. literally. >> but why is he talking to the state department at all? why is that appropriate? >> he says they're the ones who asked him to investigate and help on corruption in ukraine. dana -- >> yes, yes. those are the texts that he is sending, exactly that, from the state department talking about the time and the dapt that we're going set up these meetings, which he has, and he is sharing them. i don't think he would be shy about testifying than. >> i got to go. david ge

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and that really ups the stakes because rudy giuliani is a private citizen. he is not protected by executive privilege or so-called testimonial immunity which the white house has invoked for other current and other former officials. they are seriously committed to getting a response and prepared to go the contempt route it appears. >> congressman mccarthy and nunes have written a litter to tto -- letter to ig and they are asking the intelligence community, they are complaining basically, they write that at no point in any of the following information provided to the house intelligence committee related to this issue did you indicate that your office found any of the whistleblower's allegations to be based on firsthand knowledge during the preliminary review you underfood to determine whether the complaint appeared credible. they are still quibbling with the second hand knowledge. but the white house's own readout of the call confirms everything the whistleblower said furthermore the white house confirmed what the whistleblower alleged that this phone call was

rudy giuliani, mike pompeo, william barr and mick mull veiny. rudy giuliani was named over 30 times in the whistleblower's complaint. at least seven democratic senators have renewed calls for the justice department national security division to look into whether he is in compliance with foreign lobbying laws. giuliani says he was directed by the state department to engage with crane ynukrainen officials secretary of state mike pompeo for his side was subpoenaed friday to turn over documents related to trump's call by october 4th. attorney general bill barr was put into the spotlight wednesday when the white house released a memo. that's when it was revealed that president trump had mentioned barr has someone who can potentially help ukraine investigate the former vice president. the department of justice says that barr has not contacted ukraine officials nor was he asked to do so by president trump. they also say that he did not speak with giuliani about ukraine. and all eyes also on mick mulvaney as president trump is reportedly inferiorated wi

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it was provide information to my lawyer, rudy giuliani. >> about my 2020 rival and his son. it was not some generalized thing. it doesn't add up if the president saying work wigiulian and how much i had to say and something's going on. >> it comes as the president is saying the whistle-blower. they don't even know the gender of this person, but the president says this person is a partisan. here he is. >> it's just another political hack job. that's all it is. i don't know the identity of the whistle-blower. i just hear it's a partisan person. >> now, jim, just to be clear, right? the inspector general has said that this was not political. that's what we do understand, but how can the president say the person is a partisan when he doesn't have any idea who the person is. >> like many things the president says he has nothing to back it up, right? it's a charge that he levels at many critics with no basis and as you said, the inspector general who was appointed by this president looked at the complaint from this whistle-blower, deemed it credible and not just credible, but of u

rudy giuliani and his extraordinary role in all of this, jeff mason? >> it certainly is an extraordinary role. i think it's worth underscoring over and over that he is a private attorney for president trump, so everything that he's done in this role has been with that sort of framework. i mean, that interview was fascinating in that it doesn't sound like he's had direction yet from the president on whether or not he should cooperate. i think he said later to george that he does have a client and if his client directs him to cooperate, then he would. i think that exemplifies a little bit of what's going on at the white house now as well. there is a sense of we don't have a full strategy yet and that means maybe some talking points here or there. but in general, they're still working on it. that means they haven't gotten out the strategy to people like lieutenant for the president. >> and up on the hill, jeff depositions. most of congress is on recess, but the house intelligence committee already has a busy schedule this week. >> reporter: they do. to fo

>> with regard to rudy giuliani, it's very interesting. you know, there is the statute known as the logan act that cwih regard to michael flynn. it's a crime for civilians to engage foreign policy or foreign discussions with foreign leaders. the idea you're not supposed to go outside the apparatus of the government. with rudy giuliani, although he relates donald trump, he represents him in his personal capacity. though he most certainly is seen by the ukrainian government and over governments as a represent or agent of the president of the united states. he's really playing with fire and it'll be interesting to see whether his acts can go imputed to president trump. the whistleblower finds him or herself in a dicey situation because the language of the whistleblower protection act has a very narrow, precise definition of what gets covered and it appears not to cover i am proceed pryties by the president. he finds himself in the same scenario. the whole intelligence community is watching. what do you want people to do when they have that in

richard, central to the whistle-blower's complaint with rudy giuliani. why was the president's private lawyer working for the state department, working in coronation, meetings arranged for him by this envoy, the special envoy for ukraine, for the state department? why was that at all appropriate? and also the president in his phone call with zelensky, the new president of ukraine, he brings up the whole issue, the president brings up the whole issue of investigating the clinton emails. he's also looking at that, as was giuliani in a number of his comments. >> so we had to drag it out of the former prosecutor, who just left his position about one montgomery a month ago. he did confirm he was in fairly regular contact with the president's lawyer rudy giuliani. i went and spent quite a bit of time with the former prosecutor and asked him, well, what were you talking about, what was the subject of these meetings and these phone calls? and a lot of it was about the bid bidens. it was about specifically hunter biden when he worked for ukrainian energy company

is feeling right now well these are under a lot of pressure and 1st and foremost rudy giuliani is president trump's private lawyer who travel to madrid to meet ukrainian officials and press essentially press the ukraine to initiate investigations against joe biden and his son hunter biden the front runner of the democratic party and therefore a likely potential political rival of president trump so that's very problematic in and off itself and 3 the committees are now believing the president trump and rudy giuliani could have been jeopardizing the national security with their behavior by pressing the ukraine to interfere in national election and that is obviously for the president very dangerous as the rudy giuliani was acting on his behalf. and on another front all of the new york times reported today that trump has been in touch with the astray the in prime minister scott morrison asking for 5 is what can you tell us about that well following that report on the investigation on russian election meddling in the 2016 campaign the so-called moller investigation was initiated after tips came