holmes because he showed up. he came from ukraine, and despite mick mulvaney and john bolton and secretary rick perry refusing to cooperate with our investigation, mr. holmes continues this long line of career foreign service officers honoring the duty to cooperate with congress. and each time someone has done that just as mr. holmes did today, we have learned new information, and we learned new information today. >> and in terms of the security of that phone call, that cellphone call, did you learn anymore details about exactly what kind of device that was? was that a personal cellphone making that call all the more risky? >> so, lawrence, i'm not going to go into his testimony just yet. i'll let our chairman characterize that. but i will say i think we're about five exits past operational security concerns as it relates to donald trump. we know that donald trump does not really execute or carry out operational security as it relates to his cellphone. there were concerns from other witnesses about ambassador son

holmes, yes. he said, oh, yeah, he's going to do it. the chairman, and then he went on to say president zelensky will do anything you ask him to? mr. holmes, yes. the chairman, and dhoez are tth words you heard to the best of your recollection. >> yes, sir. >> it left an inprevention mpre, did it? mr. holmes, this was an extremely distinctive experience in my foreign service career. i've never seen anything like this, someone calling the president from a mobile phone at a restaurant and then having a conversation of this level of candor, colorful language. there is just so much about the call that was so remarkable that i remember it vividly. david holmes will testify to all of this in public on thursday morning in a week in which the house intelligence committee will hear from nine witnesses in morning and afternoon hearings. gordon sondland will testify the day before david holmes on wednesday morning. >>> leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congressman denny heck of washington. he

but what holmes says here is interesting. ambassador taylor in his wednesday testimony got to this a little bit. he says, quote, on september 13th, remember the assistance was released september 11th. following a meeting with president zelensky in his private office in which i took notes, ambassador taylor and i ran into mr. yermak on the way out. when ambassador taylor again stressed the importance of staying out of u.s. politics and said he hopes no interview was planned, mr. yermak shrugged in resignation and did not answer, as if to indicate he had no choice. in short, everyone thought there was going to be an interview and just -- and they also thought that ukrainians believed they had to do it. again, the importance of this, obviously everybody is focused on the meeting and rightfully so where president trump could be heard at that lunch. but also getting the on the ground details from diplomatic officials in ukraine, what they were seeing from the ukrainian perspective. while holmes was making clear he felt the ukraini

holmes. so let me read this crucial part and we'll read as much of this as we can to you, but i want to read this part to you. he says i heard president trump then clarify that ambassador sondland was in ukraine. ambassador sondland replied, yes, he was in ukraine and went on to state that president zelensky, quote, loves your ass. i then heard president trump ask so he's going to do the investigation? ambassador sondland reply, quote, he's going to do it, adding that president zelensky will do, quote, anything you ask him to. holmes continue, quote, after the call ended ambassador sondland remarked that the president was in a bad mood. as the ambassador sondland stated was often the case early in the morning. i then took the opportunity to ask ambassador sondland for his candid impression of the president's views in ukraine. in particular, i asked the ambassador sondland if it was true that the president did not, quote, give a blank about ukraine. ambassador sondland agreed that the presiden

holmes: yes. >> i want to take a look at excerpts from this july 25 call with you. the first one occurs right after president to lenski thanks president trump -- zelensky thanks president trump for support in the area of defense. president trump immediately says, i would like you to do us a favor, because our country has been through a lot and ukraine knows a lot about it. i would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with ukraine, they say crowdstrike. i guess you have one of your wealthy people. the server, they say ukraine has it. dr. hill, is this a reference to this debunked conspiracy theory about ukraine interference in the 2016 election that you discussed in your opening statement as well as with chairman schiff? dr. hill: the reference to cloudstrike and the server, that's correct. >> and it is your understanding there is no basis for these allegations, is that correct? dr. hill: that's correct. >> now, isn't it also true that some of president trump's most senior a

and in fact let me get this here mr holmes described official u.s. policy in regards to ukraine to be promoting peace economic growth and anti corruption so that's what he and the other staff are working towards and at one point chairmanship if. juxtapose that the fact that on the surface the us is supposed to be fighting anti corruption but that seem to be at odds with rudy giuliani promoting the the personal interests of the president how does that undermine policy. well mr holmes and to some degree dr whole point it out is that giuliani was urging ukrainians to investigate hunter biden joe biden's son which. both mr holmes and dr hill suggested was done for political reasons this was seen as sort of derailing american foreign policy making better yvon of it was removed it seems at the behest of mr giuliani in part because she was seen as an obstacle to the investigation that giuliani and song one wanted one thing that came out of songlines testimony yesterday that's particularly damning is suggesting that a number of white house staffers knew abou

holmes: yes, sir. the chairman: so there was not only the concern with the ownership of the telecommunications companies but past practice? mr. holmes: yes, sir. congressman heck, at that point when you were hearing about this ambassador who was just whipping out a cell phone in ukraine, calling the president -- and there's two ends of this. the white house lets that phone call go through. what did the republicans have to say in that room about the security of that phone call? >> okay, lawrence, we're not talking specifically about what other republicans said except for that which you can find in your deposition. but the fact of the matter is they have actually tortured themselves, turned themselves into a pretzel defending the president and trying to explain away in each and every regard what went on here. it's no different here, and it's not going to be any different, i predict, when mr. holmes comes before the committee on thursday. but at the end of the day, facts matter, and the facts are the fact

holmes because he showed up. he came from ukraine, and despite mick mulvaney and john bolton and secretary rick perry refusing to cooperate with our investigation, mr. holmes continues this long line of career foreign service officers honoring the duty to cooperate with congress. and each time someone has done that just as mr. holmes did today, we have learned new information, and we learned new information today. >> and in terms of the security of that phone call, that cellphone call, did you learn any more details about exactly what kind of device that was? was that a personal cellphone making that call all the more risky? >> so, lawrence, i'm not going to go into his testimony just yet. i'll let our chairman characterize that. but i will say i think we're about five exits past operational security concerns as it relates to donald trump. we know that donald trump does not really execute or carry out operational security as it relates to his cellphone. there were concerns from other witnesses about ambassador so

david holmes is a political counsellor at the u.s. embassy in ukraine he will testify alongside her he says that he overheard a cold between donald trump and some glue and the u.s. ambassador to the e.u. in which the president asked the diplomats if ukraine would investigate the bidens let's go live now to what the the capital of this is how the job castro is just outside the chambers where today's impeachment inquiry will begin what will wait just run through for us what we're expecting to hear today. sure adrian so the testimony this morning from the yonah hill who is a former member of the national security council she was the ukrainian and russian expert there she in a sense is really a stand in for her boss john bolton the former national security adviser to the president who has thus far refused to comply with any efforts to bring him forward for testimony now the hill has said previously and in the closed door hearings that have already occurred that bolton called this shadow diplomacy channel in his words a drug deal and that

holmes? mr. holmes: yes. rep. demings: we have already said it several times today and you have testified that ukraine is at war right now with russia. isn't it true, mr. holmes, that even though the security assistance was eventually delivered to ukraine, the fact that it was delayed to a country that is actively in war, signaled to russia that perhaps the bond between ukraine and the united states was weakening? mr. holmes: absolutely. absolutely. rep. demings: and even the appearance that the u.s.-ukraine bond is shaky could embolden russia to act in an even more aggressive way? mr. holmes: that is correct. rep. demings: you also testified that it was the unanimous view of the ukraine policy community that the aide should be released because supporting ukraine is in our national security interests. dr. hill, why do you believe that the entire ukraine policy community were unanimously in agreement? dr. hill: well, we have had this experience before. i just want you to indulge me for a moment. also attackeda the

fiona hill and david holmes. dr. fiona hill is a former deputy assistant to the president and senior director for europe and russia on the national security council. before returning to government she was a senior fellow heershe directed the center on the united states and europe. she previously worked at the national security col, eurasia foundation and the john f. kennedy school of government. david holmes is the political counsellor at the u.s. embassy in kyiv where he serves as the adviser to ambassador taylor who testified earlier in these hearings. he is a career foreign service officer. he has previously served in moscow, new delhi, kabul and bogota. he has served on the national security council as special assistant to the united states secretary of state. two final points before our witnesses are sworn. first witness depositions as part of this inquiry were unclassified in nature and all open hearings will be held at the unclassified level. any information that may touch on classified information will be add

dave holmes talked about and i think that everyone that has testified so far. really talked about the predicament that ukraine it is that they are in a position where they they need the united states they want to please the u.s. to to get what it is that they need but dave holmes made the point that this isn't in the past he painted a picture of ukraine still currently wanting to to get what it is that they need from from the u.s. so what might the long lasting effects of all of this be. this is situated in a much broader and more complicated story about the united states is interaction with europe with nato and particularly with ukraine which is sort of the hot point between nato on one hand and russia on the other inconsistent foreign policy towards ukraine and ukraine's efforts to shore up its own democracy have made it harder for the u.s. to basically hold a consistent stance in support of nato and ukraine and sort of westernization and liberalization efforts and even after the trump administration will make it harder for the united states to be able to cla

david holmes is here with us today. he is a foreign service officer currently serving as the political counselor at the u.s. embassy in kyiv. also with us is dr. fiona hill whose job as senior director for european and russian affairs encompass the coordination of u.s. policy towards ukraine. dr. hill left the nsc after more than two years in that position. dr. hill from washington, d.c. and mr. holmes from on the ground in kyiv. in early 2019, dr. hill became concerned by increasing prominence of raoug, the president's personal lawyer. her boss john on bolton was also paying attention as were other state department officials, including holmes at the u.s. embassy in kyiv. bolton knew giuliani as a hand grenade that is going to blow everybody up and powerless to prevent the former mayor from engineering former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch's firing in late april, or her recall. holmes was stunned by the intensity and consistency of media attacks on yovanovitch by name as a u.s. ambassador and the scope of

holmes, because he showed up. he came from ukrain and despite mick mulvaney and secretary rick perry refusing to cooperate with our investigation, mr. holmes continues this long line of career foreign service officers honoring the duty to cooperate with congress and each time someone has done that, just as mr. holmes has today, we have learned new information and we learned new inform algz today. >> in terms of the security of that cell phone call, did you learn new details about what kind of device that was was that a personal cell phone? >> i'm not going to go into his testimony just yet. i'll let our chairman characterize that. but i think we're five exits past security concerns. we know donald trump doesn't really execute or carry out operational security taz as it relates to his cell phone. there were concerned about ambassador sondland and his security. what we're focussed on is whether he leveraged taxpayer dollars to his benefit. and as you heard ambassador taylor talk about his interaction with david holm

david holmes testifies alongside her. so, whew, that's where we are tonight, on the eve of what could be the biggest week in the impeachment inquiry. all of it live on tv. listen carefully and remember to focus on the facts, not the shiny objects, not the people trying to divert your attention, right? remember, focus on the substance. facts first. a lot more details tonight from that trump/sondland phone call in the middle of a kiev restaurant and why david holmes was so disturbed by it. we've also learned a brand-new name in the investigation. phil mattingly, john dean here to discuss next. (contemplative synth music) - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. th

fiona hill and david holmes. hill, the chief russia expert, and holmes, you overheard sondland talking to the president about these investigations. mary bruce is up on capitol hill this morning, and dr. fiona hill expected to deliver a blistering -- a blistering attack on those who question whether it was russia who interfered in our 2016 elections. instead suggesting it's ukraine. >> reporter: george, straight off the bat, fiona hill is going to be chastising the republicans on this committee. it's a bold and rare move. she has this warning that seems aimed directly at the top republican on the committee, devin nunes. fiona hill will say that partisan politics is driving a dangerous and fictional narrative about ukraine, and she will accuse members of the committee of falsely believing and perpetuating this theory that ukraine, not russia, meddled in the u.s. election. she will warn that is a false theory perpetuated by russia, and only helps russia, and she'll ep courage the committee on focus on what really ma

david holmes heard it. it sounds as if there was one other person at the table that heard it. >> we understand there may have been at least one other and there was four total. >> clearly bad judgment to do a call like that in public. >> i think everybody can agree on that. thank you all very much. >>> next president trump making a mysterious trip to walter reid hospital. the white house saying there's no issue at all. so does it add up? a state that trump barely one. now voters are weighing in on whether or not he should be impeached. >> i don't think it's a witch hunt. i don't think it's a waste of taxpayer dollars. i think we need to go through this. about vehicle quality. and when they were done, chevy earned more j.d. power quality awards across cars, trucks and suvs than any other brand over the last four years. so on behalf of chevrolet, i want to say "thank you, real people." you're welcome. we're gonna need a bigger room. with sofi, get your credit cards right- by consolidating your credit card debt

david holmes testifies alongside her. so, whew, that's where we are tonight, on the eve of what could be the biggest week in the impeachment inquiry. all of it live on tv. listen carefully and remember to focus on the facts, not the shiny objects, not the people trying to diversit your attenti, right? remember, focus on the substance. facts first. a lot more details tonight from that trump/sondland phone call in the middle of a kiev restaurant and why david holmes was so disturbed by it. we've also learned a brand-new name in the investigation. phil mattingly, john dean here to discuss next. frequent heartburn? not anymore. the prilosec otc two-week challenge is helping people love what they love again. just one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. because life starts when heartburn stops. take the challenge at prilosecotc dot com. we need a solution.ut their phones down. introducing... smartdogs. the first dogs trained to train humans. stopping drivers from: liking. selfie-ing. and whatever this is. available to the pub

and holmes over heard that. and heard it directly. >> sondland says this guy the president will do anything you want. >> he's on the call. he needs to come and be truthful. >> we have to pick up the conversation after a break. and what one republican lawmaker did to dodge questions about the president's tweet. also tonight joined by a lawmaker doing the questioning. our special late coverage continues. there's just something different to a disney movie. (vo) verizon knows you love all things disney. i think we've watched every single movie at least twice. four times. 100 times. (vo) that's why your unlimited plan now comes with disney+ on us for a year. because the network more people rely on gives you more. [upbeat music] no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy? that's because your home is filled with soft surfaces that trap odors and release them back into the room. so, try febreze fabric refresher febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics (bubbles popping) and cleans them away as it drie

fiona hill and david holmes. dr. hill is a former deputy assistant tout the president an director for russia and europe on the security council. sheec was a senior fellow at th brookings institution where she directed the center on the united states and europe. she also worked at the intelligence council and the john f.nd kennedy school of government. david holmes is the political counsellor at the embassy in kiev where he is stationed with officer taylor. she a career foreign service officer, he has served on the staff of the national security council as has specispecial ass. to final points before the witnesses arefo sworn. first witness depositions as part of this inquiry were unclassified in nature and all opentu hearings are held at the unclassified level. any informationun that may touc unclassified information will be addressed separately. secondly, congress will not toleratel a reprisal, threat o reprisal for any official for testifying before congress including you andef any of your colleagues. if you would

holmes?

holmes was shocked. he thought the suspension of aid was significant, undermining what he stood to be long-standing u.s. national security goals in ukraine. one week later on july 25, president trump spoke with president zelensky by phone. when president zelensky product u.s. military support and noted ukraine would like to buy more antitank missiles from the united states, trump responded by saying i would like you to do us a favor, though. trump requested zelensky investigate the discredited conspiracy theory that ukraine interfered in the 2016 election. trump asked zelensky to look into the bidens. neither request had been enclosed in the official talking points by official nfc staff, but both were in donald trump's personal interests. president knew about both in advance, in part because of efforts by ambassador volker to make him aware of presidential's demand. in kiev, holmes served as a notetaker with president zelensky and other senior ukrainian officials. zelensky said on the previous day's call

fiona hill and david holmes. dr. fiona hill is a former deputy assistant to the president and senior director for europe and russia on the national security council. before returning to government, she was a senior fellow at the brookings institution where she directed the center on the united states and europe. she previously worked at the national intelligence council, the eurasia foundation and john f. kennedy school of government. david holmes is the political counselor at the u.s. embassy in kyiv where he's the senior policy and political adviser to ambassador taylor who testified earlier in these hearings. he is a career foreign service officer. he has previously served in moscow, new delhi, kabul, bogota and pristina. he's also served on the staff of the national security council as his special assistant -- as special assistant to the united states secretary of state. two final points before our witnesses are sworn. first, witness depositions as part of this inquiry were unclassified in nature. and all open he

holmes' conversation. i want to hear, okay, here's a call record of president trump and president -- and ambassador sondland. >> right. so you want to see a call record of that? >> i want a call record of that. i want a call record of everything that president trump has said to prove that he has not done anything wrong. it's all been hearsay. i hear, you know, this through the grapevine. well, who's all these people in the grapevine? and the other thing is why can't the republicans -- our witnesses, why does schiff keep shutting us down? i think it's a schiff show and i think the republicans are not getting a fair opportunity. >> and of course the ranking member, devin nunes maengsed that late last night as the hearing wrapped up, the democrats on the committee blocking the requests by republicans for documents and testimony from the whistle-blower, from hunter biden, from the democratic national committee. it's live coverage here on c-span3 and radio of the hearing today, today hearing from fiona hill, a

holmes' statement continues on. he says i then took the opportunity to ask sondland for the prefz's views on ukraine. in particular i asked plrd sondland if it was true if the president did not give an "s" or ish about ukraine. well, ambassador sondland agreed that the president did not give a ish about ukraine. i asked why not and ambassador sondland stated the president only cares about big stuff. i noted that was big stuff going on in ukraine like a war a russia. and he replied big stuff that benefits the president like the biden investigation that mr. giuliani was pushing. the conversation then moved onto other topics. that really couldn't be more clear. the president only cares about big stuff that benefits him. like that biden investigation he wanted. and ambassador sondland had already assured the president that zelensky would do anything you ask him to do. remember holmes says two staffers were there at the table sharing that bottle of wine on the restaurant terrace when that phone call happened. and if the

holmes. not only will it be interesting from an informational purpose how much he knows but keep in mind as you noted he will be testifying on thursday, what this deposition says will be a very good, kind of entree' if you will into what he is going to say publicly and, frankly, how and if he is able to connect this directly to president trump. that's been the question that's outstanding. obviously the call is pretty notable. what else he can say on that front is what we'll be digging through right now, anderson. >> all right. we'll check in with you later as warranted. phil mattingly thanks very much. nine witnesses testifying publicly this week holmes included. two of them facing tough questions likely about why key portions of their accounts differ from most of the others. all of them potentially facing fresh twitter wrath from the president. and sources familiar with the matter tell us the ones who work on assignment at the white house might see careers hurt or at least moved out of the w

holmes continues. i asked ambassador sondland if it was true that president did not give an s about ukraine. ambassador sondland agreed the president did not give an s about ukraine. asked why. he said he only cares about big stuff. i noted there was big stuff going on in ukraine like a war with russia and ambassador sondland replied he meant big stuff that benefits the president like the biden investigation that mr. giuliani was pushing, end quote. holmes' testimony came immediately after former ukraine ambassador marie yovanovitch spent hours today testifying before the intelligence committee. >> if our chief representative is kneecaped, it limits our effectiveness to safeguard the vital national security interest of the united states. our ukraine policy has been thrown into disarray and shady interests, the world over have learned how little it takes to remove an american ambassador who does not give them what they want. >> she described efforts by rudy giuliani and others including the president to

holmes heard this conversation. and recognized the president's voice loud and clear because he was so loud on the phone and and to the fact the recipient of the phone call and that ambassador sondland, which allowed us to hear it. >> i want to be precise, congressman. you took away the word allegedly. you're saying this is a fact. it happened. and you heard confirm that it happened. first of all, we heard taylor assert that it happened and he had an aide who heard it. we are now hearing deposition from that aide. and it was i don't think in dispute that the phone conversation occurred. so it's not here say and it's not alleged. so you're hearing from a person who overheard the conversation, david holmes. >> that's the whole purpose of today's deposition. >> i know it's the whole purpose but i want to make sure we're not pinning it on bill ta r lor any longer. we have somebody who was there opposed to someone who heard it from another person. >> i'm trying to thread a needle here so i'm not directly referring to test

holmes worked at the u.s. embassy in ukraine at the time when a phone call was received by ambassador sondland. the gentleman who testified yesterday. holmes educated at a small school in california. later at st. andrews in scotland and finished his education in new jersey. devin nunes. let's go to chris wallace and set the table from his perspective. >> thank you, bill. i think one of the things that is interesting and martha brought it up. we have not had a lot of key figures central to this investigation to testify. i was thinking back to watergate and if you remember during the watergate hearings we heard from haldman and erlichman and dean and people central to that investigation. they were subpoenaed and they complied. we have not heard from a lot of the key people here like john bolton, mick mulvaney. but one of the reasons -- i guess the main reason why is when some of them, mulvaney in particular, has been subpoenaed they have refused to adhere to those subpoenas. the white house sent out a blanket ed

david holmes told the truth. the code word investigate burisma, that was kocode for investigating biden. david holmes said he didn't have access to his notes so he wasn't as clear as he could have been. that left an opening for the republicans. >> the timing throughout this story is interesting and notable. the call to the ukrainian president, the famous july phone call happened within 24 hours of robert mueller finishing his testimony on the hill. the general view on the hill was it was not as much as expected.

david holmes is here with us today. he is a foreign service officer currently serving as the political counselor at the u.s. ambassador in kiev. also with us is fiona hill. dr. hill left the ns clrks in july after more than two years in that position. dr. hill and mr. holmes provide a unique perspective on issues relating to ukraine. dr. hill from washington, d.c., and mr. holmes from on the ground in kyiv. dr. hill became concerned about the presence of giuliani who was asserting quite frankly in public appearance that he had been given some authority over matters in ukraine. her boss joe bidhn bolton was p attention as well as holmes at the u.s. embassy in kyiv. bolton viewed giuliani has a hand grenade that is going to below everybo blow everybody else and was powerless to marie yovanovitch's firing. yovanovitch's dismissal as a result of giuliani's smear campaign was one of the things that concerned hill. lieutenant colonel alex vindman also was at the meeting. and they advised the leader to stay out of domestic pol

holmes. he's the embassy staffer in ukraine who says that he overheard the president's phone call of ambassador gordon sondland. according to his opening statement obtained by nbc news, holmes said, "i then heard president trump ask, "so he's going to do the investigation?" ambassador sondland relied that he's going to do it, adding that president zelensky will do anything you ask him to." here's representative swalwell describing the impact of holmes' testimony. >> in that statement that was released, there is a lot to be concerned about, particularly that more witnesses describe the president's obsession with investigating his political opponents. so now we're going to evaluate whether that warrants bringing him in, in a public hearing. >> republican house intel money jim jordan also responding to the testimony today, appearing to brush it all off. >> you've got some guy overheard a phone call. i'm sure he's going to be in a witness next week. we'll have him in an open hearing and we will g

david holmes is here with us today. he is a foreign service officer currently serving as the political counselor at the u.s. ambassador in kiev. also with us is fiona hill. dr. hill left the ns clrks in july after more than two years in that position. dr. hill and mr. holmes provide a unique perspective on issues relating to ukraine. dr. hill from washington, d.c., and mr. holmes from on the ground in kyiv. dr. hill became concerned about the presence of giuliani who was asserting quite frankly in public appearance that he had been given some authority over matters in ukraine. her boss joe bidhn bolton was p attention as well as holmes at the u.s. embassy in kyiv. bolton viewed giuliani has a hand grenade that is going to below everybo blow everybody else and was powerless to marie yovanovitch's firing. yovanovitch's dismissal as a result of giuliani's smear campaign was one of the things that concerned hill. lieutenant colonel alex vindman also was at the meeting. and they advised the leader to stay out of domestic pol

holmes? >> yes. >> dr. hill, in your professional opinion, is it in the national security interest of the united states to support ukraine with the much talked about military aid? >> yes. >> mr. holmes? >> yes. >> we have already said it several times today and have you already testified that ukraine is in war right now with russia. isn't it true, mr. holmes, that even though the security assistance was eventually delivered to ukraine, the fact that it was delayed to a country that is actively in war signaled to russia that perhaps the bond between ukraine and the united states was weakening? >> absolutely, absolutely. >> and even the appearance that the u.s.-ukraine bond is shaky could embolden russia to act in an even more aggressive way. >> that's correct. >> you also testified it was and i quote the unanimous view of the ukraine policy community that the aid should be released because supporting ukraine is in our national security interest. dr. hill, why do you believe that the entire ukr

david holmes testifying to that under oath, but there's more, okay? after the call ended, ambassador sondland remarked that the president was in a bad mood, as ambassador sondland stated was often the case early in the morning. does that sound like someone the president hardly knows? >> let me just tell you, i hardly know the gentleman. >> well, you apparently knew him well enough to take a call from him and ask him about the investigations you wanted from ukraine. holmes' statement continuing -- i then took the opportunity to ask ambassador sondland for his candid impression of the president's views on ukraine. in particular i asked if it was true that the president did not give a s, or-ish about ukraine. ambassador sondland agreed that the president did not give as ish about ukraine, and i asked why not, and ambassador sonde lend said that the president only cares about big stuff. i noted that there was big stuff going on in ukraine, and he meant big stuff that benefited the president. the conversation moved on to other topics. >> that couldn't be m

let's start with kristin holmes on capitol hill. let's start with the testimony of mark sandy of the omb office. >> that's right, fred. here is what we know. she a career official at the office of management and budget, the omb, and here is why that division of the white house is so important. let's take a look at what this impeachment inquiry is all about from the very beginning. the question is whether or not president trump and his allies withheld funding to get dirt on his political rivals. the organization, the part of the white house that would

holmes. dr. hill, have you provided me probably the greatest piece of evidence that's before us to illustrate the problem with hearsay. so, you said, based on questions and statements, i have heard. some of you on this committee, that would be us, appear to believe that russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country. and perhaps somehow for some reason it was ukraine. so this is the -- was held up by devin nunes is a report on russian active measures that was voted on by all of us. it begins with this sentence. in 2015 russia began engaging in a covert influence campaign aimed at the u.s. presidential election. every one little small like, you know, effort on your part, dr. hill, and you would have known-what you just said was not true. what you had heard. but you felt the need to put it in your 8-page statement before you went on to tell us a bunch of other things that you heard about other people no matter how convinced you were of also which were not necessaril

holmes? >> ultimately. >> dr. hill? >> correct, ultimately. >> and there was no investigation into the bidens. correct? mr. holmes? >> did not open a new investigation on the bidens. >> correct. dr. hill? >> correct. >> and there was, in fact, a et mooing between president trump and president zelensky ultimately at the u.n.? is that correct? >> the president invited zelensky to the oval office, at a date undetermined that has not yet happened. >> the meeting at the u.n. president trump and president slvr zelensky met at the u.n.? >> they did but flot in the oval office. >> they did. >> thank you. i yield back. >> mr. swalwell. >> dr. hill, yesterday i think a lot of americans were scratching their heads as ambassador sondland testified that on september 9 he calms the president of the united states and just says broadly, what do you want from ukraine? and the president says, there's no quid pro quo. there's no quid pro quo. like being pulled over forespeeding and asked, do you know how fast y

holmes. >> ultimately. >> yes and dr. hill. >> correct, ultimately. >> >> and there was no investigation into the bidens, correct, mr. holmes. >> they did not open a new investigation of the bidens. >> correct. >> and dr. hill. >> correct. >> and there was in fact a meeting between president trump and president zelensky ultimate ily at the u.n., that is correct. >> the president invited zelensky to the oval office at a date undetermined that hasn't happened. >> the meeting at the u.n., president trump and president zelensky met at the u.n. >> at the not the oval. >> and dr. hill. >> yes. >> thank you, i yield back. >> mr. swalwell. >> dr. hill, yesterday injury a lot of americans were scratching their heads as ambassador sondland testified that on september 9 he calls the president of the united states and just says broadly, what do you want from ukraine? >> and the president says there is no quid pro quo. there is no quid pro quo. like being pulled over for speeding and being asked do you kn

holmes and dr. hill today, that meeting was extraordinarily important to ukraine and extraordinarily important in sending a message to russia about our -- our unyielding support. the witnesses have made it absolutely clear what the president did. and it's equally clear that president trump has launched a cover-up and disinformation campaign to hide this abuse of power from the american people. that's why the administration refuses to provide documents to this committee. and it's why the white house has taken the unprecedented position that senior officials could ignore congressional subpoenas and refused to testify. that's why acting chief of staff mulvaney, secretary of state pompeo and others have not testified. now the president and even some members of the committee are pretending this is normal. it is not. it must never be. no other president has betrayed his office like this by putting his own small political interest above our national interests and our national security. you know, i asked so

one of whom, david holmes, a u.s. diplomat in ukraine, he overheard president trump ask sondland about the investigation into the bidens during a cell phone call, in a restaurant in kiev. he told lawmakers, he never saw anything like it. a source tells cnn, that several republicans were shaken by his testimony. this is after the president is diskissing some of the aides who have testified against him. want to begin with suzanne malveaux live on thrill. four witnesses in what could be the most contentious day yet. >> the energy in the room, as the media is setting up for their marathon day. you can see four witnesses testifying. all of this coming late last night. there's transcripts released of previous testimony. damning testimony, spoking holes into trump and his arguments. four key witnesses will take the stand today, starting with alexander vindman and jennifer williams. vindman testified last month, he raised concerns to the top national security council lawyer, within hours of the call. >> a former air force pil

thank you dr hill mr holmes for years years of service to this country and i appreciate you being here today throughout this process i have said that i want to learn the facts so we can get to the truth so why are we here because of 2 things that occurred during the president's july 25th phone call with ukrainian president on the use of the phrase do us a favor though in reference to the 26000 presidential election and the mention of the word biden i believe both statements were inappropriate misguided foreign policy and it's certainly not how the executive current or in the future should handle such a call over the course of these hearings the american people have warned about a series of events that in my view have undermined our national security and undercut ukraine a key partner on the front lines against russian aggression. we've heard of u.s. officials carrying uncoordinated confusing and conflicting messages that created doubt and uncertainty and key at a time when a new reformist administration has just taken office and was ready to fight corruption and work with us to advance

testified about a conversation that you and he had where he says that you told mr holmes. that the president does not care about ukraine but the president used the more colorful language including a 4 letter word that you just referenced to just reference do you recall saying that to mr holmes again i don't recall my exact words but clearly the president beginning on may 23rd when we met with him in the oval office was not a big fan but he was a big fan of the investigations apparently so and in fact mr holmes said that you that you said that president trump only cares about the quote big stuff that benefits himself is that something that you would have said at the time i don't think i would have said that i would have i would have honestly said that he was not a big fan of ukraine and he wants the investigations that we have been talking about for quite some time to move forward that's what i would have said because that's the fact mr holmes also remembers that you told him in giving an example of the big stuff the biden investigation that rudy giuliani was pushing do you

holmes. have you met with or do you know alexandra chalupa? could you turn your microphone on. >> no. >> do you know nellie ohr? have you met with nellie ohr? >> no. >> bruce ohr? >> no. >> glenn simpson? >> no. >> thank you. same question for you, dr. hill. do you know or have you met with alexandra chalupa? >> no. >> nellie ohr? >> no. >> bruce ohr? >> only in the course of my previous position as a national officer that he presided over the meetings i attended. >> a long time ago? >> yes. >> glenn simpson? >> no. >> dr. hill, in your testimony you said that in your deposition, excuse me, that christopher steele was your counterpart at one time. is this correct. >> that is correct, yes. >> you testified that you met with christopher steele in 2016, and i assume that is still correct? >> that is correct, yes. >> and the only thing that we didn't get on that is that do you know about when that was in 2016 and how many times? >> i am afraid i don't. i actually had met with him, and he asked me

holmes? >> again, i don't recall any exact words, but clearly the president beginning on may 23rd, when we met with him in the oval office, was not a big fan. >> but he was a big fan of the investigations? >> apparently so. >> and, in fact, mr. holmes said that you -- that you said that president trump only cares about the, quote, big stuff that benefits himself. is that something that you would have said at the time? >> i don't think i would have said that. i would have honestly said that he was not a big fan of ukraine and he wants the investigations that we have been talking about for quite some time to move forward. that's what i would have said. because that's the fact. >> mr. holmes also remembers that you told him in giving an example of the big stuff, the biden investigation that rudy giuliani was pushing. do you recall that? >> i don't. i recall burisma, not biden. >> but do you recall saying -- at least referring to an investigation that rudy giuliani was pushing? is that something

corroborate what holmes said. and so he can't get away with lying anymore. he's going to have to tell everything. if he doesn't want to be indicted for the perjury, because even saying i don't remember, i don't recall does not mean it's not perjury when you're having a conversation like the one that he reportedly had. that's something that you would remember and juries are willing to say if you said i don't remember it, we don't believe you. even that could be perjury. if he wants to get a deal, he better come clean and do it fast. >> if you look at what came out today then, andrew, the hundreds of pages that have been mentioned, again, just several hours into this from jennifer williams as well as timothy morrison, both of whom will be testifying as has been said this coming tuesday, what do you think their role will fit as the prosecutors in this case, the democrats there on the intel committee, are pushing for. what is the relevance? >> it underscores the entire national security apparatus, including political

holmes? >> yes. >> dr. hill, in your professional opinion is it in the national security interest of the united states to support ukraine with the much talked about military aid? >> yes. >> mr. holmes? >> yes. >> we've already said it several times today, you've already testified that ukraine is in war right now with russia. isn't it true, mr. holmes, even though the security assistance was eventually delivered to ukraine, the fact that it was delayed to a country that's actively in war signal to russia that perhaps the bond between ukraine and the united states was weakening? >> absolutely, absolutely. >> and even the appearance that the u.s., ukraine bond is shaky could embolden russia to act in an even more aggressive way. >> that's correct. >> you also testified that it was, and i quote, the unanimous view of the ukraine policy community that the aid should be released because support in ukraine is in our national security interest. dr. hill, why do you believe that the entire ukraine pol

holmes testimony, katy, for democrats is a slam dunk. i talked to a source familiar who says that holmes told house investigators that this isn't just his account. he says there were two other people at the table who were overhearing that conversation. so there are, presumably, two other people who could back him up on this. his testimony is potentially crippling and damaging for president trump on two points. both on -- one on the substance, right? president trump says he was concerned about corruption but yet you have holmes saying, at least by way of sondland's telling, that president trump only cared about the big stuff. only cared about the investigations. the other thing is that republicans keep trying to focus us on the finer points of one or maybe two phone calls. but this timeline shows that president trump, even after, the day after that july 25th phone call, he was checking up on it. and that matters because house democrats have said time and time again that these phone calls did not exist in isolation. that this was a coordin

holmes, mr. jordan's time has expired but yours has not. you may answer the question. >> it's exactly my point. i briefed the call in detail. went away for a week, refer to the call, and everyone is nodding. of course, that's what's going on. of course, the president is pressing for a biden investigation before he'll do these things the ukrainians want. every singleding agreement. word in the call? no, because everyone by that point agreed. it was obvious what the president was pressing for. and ambassador taylor, as you've just outlined, had all those other interactions. >> but you didn't share it with us. >> mr. jordan, please do not interrupt. >> but, sir, my vivid recollection of what i was involved with was a touchstone experience that, to me, validated -- >> mr. jordan, please do not interrupt. >> -- what we believed. and ambassador taylor was not in that call. >> so all of a sudden, last week -- >> mr. jordan. mr. jordan, you will allow the witness to answer the question. >> i'll finish with this. >> thank you. >> he was involved in

holmes? >> we got a look at the ten-page opening statement on friday night and it was explosive and at various levels explicit as well. the one key thing that david holmes was unveiling to lawmakers was this launch he had with ambassador gordon sondland where he overheard gordon sondland call president trump and he overheard president trump talking explicitly about investigations and about the relationship between president trump angd ukrainian president jens. we don't know how he was able to hear all of this and how is his recollection so crystal clear. he made sure they could hear president trump because president trump spoke so loudly that gordon sondland moved the phone from his ear. this was an extremely distinctive experience in my foreign service career, i've never seen anything like this, someone calling the president from a mobile phone at a restaurant and having a conversation of this level of candor, colorful language. there's so much about the call that was so remarkable and i rem