with mr. giuliani directly when mr. volker wasn't available. >> and did mr. giuliani -- go ahead. >> i don't believe i testified that mr. giuliani told me that aid was tied. >> oh, i think -- see, this is part of the problem, ambassador sondlandd you have said s, i listened to you today as a lot of people and not only are your answers somewhat circular, frequently, you've contradicted emails that you have put up there, kurt volker walked us different understand ing of wha you're saying than what you're saying you were saying so i'm a little confused as to how everyone's in the loop because there -- if giuliani didn't give you an express statement then it can't be that you believe this from giuliani. now let me tell you right now. is donald trump your friend? >> no, we're not friends. we have a -- >> do you like the president? >> yes. >> okay. >> well, you know, after you testified, chairman schiff ran out and gave a press conference and said he gets to impeach the president of the united states because of your testimony and if you pull up cnn today, right now

we did not want to involve mr. giuliani. i believed then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for ukraine relations. we were faced with a choice. we could abandon the efforts to schedule the white house phone call and visit between presidents trump and zelensky, which was unquestionably in our foreign policy interests, or we could do as president trump had directed and talk with rudy. nothose the latter course, because we liked it but because it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador voelker, and i were in communication with mr. giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial calls with mr. giuliani, given their prior relationship. ambassador voelker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what was discussed. i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several months later. mr. giuliani emphasized that the president wanted

>we know that mr. giuliani has met with yermak. do you know any other ukrainian official within the zelensky regime that mayor giuliani was meeting with? >> i don't know who mr. giuliani was meeting with. >> had you had any conversations with ukrainian officials within the zelensky regime that came to you and said hey, i just got off the phone with giuliani. what the hell is he talking about? >> i don't recall. >> would that be normal? in all your interactions with ambassadors and heads of states and governments, if there is some element of the u.s. government that they have spoken to, isn't it usually that they come in, talk to the ambassador, try to clarify the statement? is that a true characterization of high elements of diplomacy work. sticker that's a reasonable possibility. things work all kinds of different ways. >> when you met with president zelensky after the july 25 phone call. you met him on july 26, did the investigations for joe biden, but not meeting? >> i don't recall joe biden coming up. >> was their frustration e

what did you believe to be mr giuliani what do you believe mr giuliani was doing in ukraine for president trump so i don't know. ambassador saarland. in august of this year u.n. ambassador volcker spoke with mr giuliani about the address statement to be issued by the president delivers keep during those discussions it was mr giuliani who suggested in fact insisted that the statement include specific language about the recent corrects are correct and he insisted that the statement include the mention of the 26th elections and mr volcker transmitted this message to a top ukrainian official writes are. correct. mr ambassador and this statement was part of the deliverable that president trump want to correct sir correct to your knowledge serve was pushing the ukrainians to investigate breeze from a 2016 of the bidens part of some official state department policies or i never testified that we were pushing anyone to investigate the bidens i said the response . you were involved in ukrainian policy rights or. i told you what my role was which was quite limited and focused was a your understandi

giuliani in early august several months later mr giuliani emphasized that the president wanted a public statement from president selenski committing ukraine to look into the corruption issues mr giuliani specifically mentioned the 2016 election including the d.n.c. server and barry smug as to topics of importance to the president we kept the leadership of the state department and the n.s.c. informed of our activities and that included communications with secretary of state pompei o as councilor bull his executive secretary lisa khanna and also communications with ambassador bolton dr hill mr morrison and their staff at the n.s.c. they knew what we were doing and why. on july 10th 2019 senior ukrainian national security officials met with ambassador bolton ambassador volker dr hill secretary perry myself and several others in washington d.c. during that meeting we all discussed the importance of the 2 action items i identified earlier one it working phone call and 2 it white house meeting between presidents trump and selenski from my perspective the july 10th meeting was a positive step

i don't recall how many because i don't have the records with mr. giuliani when mr. volker wasn't available -- >> did giuliani -- what were you going to say. >> i don't believe i testified that mr. giuliani told me that aid was tied. >> i think -- this is part of the problem. i want to walk you through this. you've said to us everyone was in the loop and everyone. hold on a second. i've listened to you today as a lot of people, and not only are your answers somewhat circular, frequently you've contradicted yourself in your own answer. the text messages and emails that you put up there, kurt volker walked us through it and he has a completely different understanding of what you were saying than what you were saying you were saying. so i'm a little confused as to everyone is in the loop because -- if giuliani didn't give you an express statement, then it can't be that you believe this from giuliani. is donald trump your friend? >> no, we're not friends. >> do you like the president? >> yes. >> okay. after you testified, chairman schiff gave a press conference and said

mr. giuliani directly expressed the request the ukrainians and mr. giuliani also directly expressed the request to us. we all understood these prerequisites for the white house call and the white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements. within my state department emails, there is a july 19th email. this email was sent, this email was sent to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccormick, who was secretary perry's chief of staff at the time, miss kenna, the acting, pardon me, the executive secretariat for secretary pompeo, chief of staff mulvaney, and mr. mulvaney's senior adviser, rob blair. a lot of senior officials. a lot of senior officials. here is my exact quote from that email. i talked to zelensky just now. he is prepared to receive potus' call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation and will turn over every stone. he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday so that he can put out some media about a friendly and productive call, no details, prior to ukraine election on su

we did not want to involve mr. giuliani. i believed then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for ukraine matters. nonetheless, based on the president's direction, we were schedule the white house phone unquestionably in our foreign policy interest or we could do as president trump had directed and talk with rudy. we chose the latter course, not because we liked it, but because it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador volker and i were in communication with mr. giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial call with mr. giuliani given their prior relationship. ambassador volker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what was discussed. i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several months later. mr. giuliani emphasized that the president wanted a public statement from president zelensky committing ukraine to look

i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several months later. mr. giuliani emphasized that the president wanted a public statement from president zelensky committing ukraine to look into the corruption issues. mr. giuliani specifically mentioned the 2016 election, including the dnc server, and burisma as two topics of importance to the president. we kept the leadership of the state department and the nsc informed of our activities, and that included communications with secretary of state pompeo, his counselor, brechbuhl, lisa kenna, and also communications with dr. hill, mr. morrison and their staff at the nsc. they knew what we were doing and why. on july 10th, 2019, senior ukrainian national security officials met with ambassador bolton, ambassador volker, dr. hill, secretary perry, myself and several others in washington, d.c. during that meeting, we all discussed the importance of the two action items identified earlier. one, a working phone call, and two, a white house meeting between presidents trump and zelensky. from my perspective, the july

lloyd that sankoh not credible and told mr giuliani so. thank you mr chairman 1st off the allegations themselves including those against city of on of each. did not appear to me to be credible at all i know her to be an incredibly competent professional someone i've worked with for many many years the suggestions that she was acting in some improper and inappropriate manner were not credible to me i've known vice president biden for a long time and those accusations were not credible and then separate from that i also was aware of the political situation in ukraine we had a situation where president poroshenko appeared to not be in a favorable position going into the elections where it was increasingly apparent then candidate zelinsky was going to win. as is often the case in ukraine a change in power would mean changing prosecutorial powers as well and there have been efforts in the past to at prosecuting the previous government i think mr lott saying go in my estimation and i said this to mary giuliani when i met with him was interested

we did not want to involve mr. giuliani. i believe then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for ukraine matters. nonetheless, based on the president's direction, we were faced with a choice. we could abandon the efforts to the phone call questionably in our foreign policy we could do as president trump had directed and talked with rudy. we chose the latter course not because we liked it but because it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador volker and i were in communication with mr. giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial calls with mr. giuliani given their prior relationship. ambassador volker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what was discussed. i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several months later. mr. giuliani emphasized that the president wanted a public statement from president zelensky comm

giuliani. >> mr. giuliani -- >> no meeting unless there was an announcement of an investigation. >> thank you. >> i asked -- by the way, did the efforts of mr. giuliani impede the efforts that you and others were making to try to advance what you thought was ukraine policy? >> not initially. >> ultimate hi? >> nothing happened. >> giuliani was the one who was absolutely insis tan on the meeting. >> giuliani was insis tant on the investigation. >> now us i asked this of ambassador volcker. if the mayor of portland said to the mischief i'm not going to authorize your budget unless you agree to do an investigation into my political opponent, would that be wrong? >> of course. >> and like wise, if it were the governor of the state of oregon, doing the same thing, correct? >> correct. >> would that same rule apply to the president of the united states? >> to investigate a political opponent, yes. >> so that's the question here. the president in his phone call, he asked president zelensky who desperately ne

we did not want to involve mr. giuliani. i believed then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for ukraine matters. nonetheless, based on the president's direction, we were faced with a choice. we could abandon the efforts to schedule the white house phone call and a white house visit between presidents trump and zelensky which was unquestionably in our foreign policy interest, or we could as preside t had directed, and talk with rudy. we chose the latter course not because we liked it, but because it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador volker and i were in communication with mr. giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial calls with mr. giuliani given their prior relationship. ambassador volker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what was discussed. i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several months late

giuliani. >> mr. giuliani -- >> no meeting unless there was an announcement of an investigation. >> thank you. >> i asked -- by the way, did the efforts of mr. giuliani impede the efforts that you and others were making to try to advance what you thought was ukraine policy? >> not initially. >> ultimate hi? >> nothing happened. >> giuliani was the one who was absolutely insis tan on the meeting. >> giuliani was insis tant on the investigation. >> now us i asked this of ambassador volcker. if the mayor of portland said to the mischief i'm not going to authorize your budget unless you agree to do an investigation into my political opponent, would that be wrong? >> of course. >> and like wise, if it were the governor of the state of oregon, doing the same thing, correct? >> correct. >> would that same rule apply to the president of the united states? >> to investigate a political opponent, yes. >> so that's the question here. the president in his phone call, he asked president zelensky who desperately ne

barr in place of the informal channel between mr you're mocking mr giuliani ambassador bolton also expressed frustration about about her silence expansive interpretation of his mandate after president from canceled his visit to warsaw we continued to try to appeal to the president in foreign policy and national security terms to that end and master taylor told me that ambassador bolton recommended that he ambassador taylor send a 1st person cable to secretary peo articulating the importance of the security assistance at a baster taylor's direction i drafted and transmitted the cable on an on about retailer's behalf on august 29th which further attempted to explain the importance of ukraine and the security assistance to us national security by this point however my clear impression was that this a curate assistance hole that was likely intended by the president either as an expression of dissatisfaction with ukrainians who are not yet agreed to the breeze made by envy.

we did not want to involve mr. giuliani. i believe then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for ukraine matters. nonetheless, based on the president's direction, we were faced with a choice. we could abandon the efforts to schedule the white house phone call and a white house visit between presidents trump and zelensky, which was unquestionably in our foreign policy interests, or we could do as president trump had directed and talk with rudy. we chose the latter course, not because we liked it, but because it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador volker and i were in communication with mr. giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial calls with mr. giuliani given their prior relationship. ambassador volker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what was discussed. i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several m

mr. giuliani directly expressed the request the ukrainians and mr. giuliani also directly expressed the request to us. we all understood these prerequisites for the white house call and the white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements. within my state department emails, there is a july 19th email. this email was sent, this email was sent to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccormick, who was secretary perry's chief of staff at the time, miss kenna, the acting, pardon me, the executive secretariat for secretary pompeo, chief of staff mulvaney, and mr. mulvaney's senior adviser, rob blair. a lot of senior officials. a lot of senior officials. here is my exact quote from that email. i talked to zelensky just now. he is prepared to receive potus' call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation and will turn over every stone. he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday so that he can put out some media about a friendly and productive call, no details, prior to ukraine election on su

first, at the time i was connecting mr. yermak and mr. giuliani and discussing with mr. yermak and ambassador sondland a possible statement to be made by the ukrainian president i did not know of any linkage between the hold on security assistance and ukraine pursuing investigations. no one had ever said that to me and i never con sayed such a linkage to the ukrainians. i opposed the hold as soon as i learned about it on july 18th and thought we could turn it around before the ukrainians ever knew or became alarmed about it. i did not know the reason for the hold. but i viewed it as a u.s. policy problem that we needed to fix internally and i was confident we would do so. i believe the ukrainians became aware of the hold on august 29th and not before. that date is the first time any of them asked me about the hold by forwarding an article that had been published in politico. when i spoke to the ukrainians about the hold after august 29th, instead of telling them they needed to do something to get the hold released, i told them the opposite. that they should know be alarm

giuliani expressed those requests directly to the ukrainians and mr giuliani also expressed those requests directly to us we all understood that these prerequisites for the white house call and the right white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements within my state department e-mails there is a july 19th e-mail this e-mail was sent this e-mail was sent to secretary pompei o secretary perry bryan mccormick who is secretary perry is chief of staff at the time miss canada who is the acting a pardon me who is the executive secretary at 4 secretary pompei o chief of staff mulvaney and mr maule deniz senior advisor rob blair a lot of senior officials a lot of senior officials here is my exact quote from that e-mail i talk to as a lansky just now he is prepared to receive poetess call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation and will turn over every stone he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday so that he can put out some media about a friendly and productive call no details prior to ukraine election on sunday chief of staff f

mr. giuliani expressed those requests directly to the ukrainians, and mr. giuliani also expressed those requests directly to us. we all understood that these prerequisites for the white house call and the white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements. within my state department emails, there is a july 19th email. this email was sent -- this email was sent to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccormick, who is secretary perry's chief of staff at the time, ms. kenna, who is the acting -- pardon me, who is the executive secretary for secretary pompeo, chief of staff mulvaney, and mr. mulvaney's senior adviser rob blair. a lot of senior officials. a lot of senior officials. here is my exact quote from that email, "i talked to zelensky just now. he is prepared to receive potus's call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation and will turn over every stone. he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday, so that he can put out some media about a friendly and productive call, no details, prior t

we did not want to involve mr. giuliani. i believe then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for ukraine matters. nonetheless, based on the president's direction, we were faced with a choice, we could abandon the efforts to schedule the white house phone call and visit between presidents trump and zelensky, which was unquestionably in our foreign policy interest, or we could do as president trump had directed, and talk with rudy. which at our core -- it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador volker and i were in communication with mr. giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial calls with mr. giuliani given their prior relationship. ambassador volker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what was discussed. i first communicated with mr. giuliani in early august, several months later. mr. giuliani emphasized that the president wa

why is it that you found mr. lutsenko not credible and told mr. giuliani so? >> thank you, mr. chairman, the allegations themselves including those against ambassador yovanovitch did not appear to me to be credible at all. i know her to be an incredibly competent professional. someone i worked with for many, many years t the suggestions that she was acting in some inappropriate manner were not credible to me. i have known vice president biden for a long time. those accusations were not credible. and then separate from that, i also was aware of the political situation in ukraine. we had a situation where the president appeared to not be in a favorable position going into the elections where it was increasingly apparent then candidate zelenskyy was going to win. as is often the case in ukraine, a change in power would mean change in prosecutoral pow irz and there rests in the past at prosecuting the previous government. i think mr. lutsenko and i said this to mayor giuliani was interested in preserving his own position. he wanted to avoid being fired by a new government in order

giuliani was pushing." mr. giuliani was investigation that mr. giuliani was pushing." pushing." (ken) president trump has told his house allies to "keep fighting tough." he's looking ahead to a possible impeachment trial before the senate by reportedly meeting with g-o-p senators. (ken) for your health tonight- a new study says adolescents across the world... are growing increasingly lazy. that study- done by the world health organization- says that trend could put their health at risk for serious diseases. researchers looked at data of 1 point 6 million teenagers in 146 countries. more than 80 percent of the teens don't meet the current recommendatio ns of at least one hour of physical activity per day. screen time could be a big factor... keeping young people sedentary. by not exercising --researchers say teens are prone to weight gain...and conditions that can develop later in life like heart conditions. (pam) the company - 'edible arrangements' is now selling c-b-d infused edibles. the new product line is called -'incredible edibles'. the c-b-d infused treats include smoothi

giuliani. >> ultimately as you testified, you introduced mr. yermak to mr. giuliani and they eventually met, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> into early august when they met, ukraine desperately wanted that oval office meeting from president zelensky. you also wanted that. is that right? >> that is correct. >> why was that meeting so important? >> i think that he felt that he was not well understood by president trump. he is a charismatic leader who ran a remarkable campaign in ukraine against the legacy of corruption and political malaise that had been there. he had a massive showing at the presidential election, 73% support for it he believed that he was leading a movement of major change in ukraine. and that president trump did not see that or didn't appreciate that. but if he had a chance to sit down and speak with president trump face to face, he believed that he could be very convincing about that. i agree with that. >> that was certainly your assessment. >> it was my assessment and also watch president zelensky believed. >> you understood from y

giuliani. >> mr. giuliani -- >> no meeting unless there was an announcement of an investigation. >> thank you. >> i asked -- by the way, did the efforts of mr. giuliani impede the efforts that you and others were making to try to advance what you thought was ukraine policy? >> not initially. >> ultimate hi? >> nothing happened. >> giuliani was the one who was absolutely insis tan on the meeting. >> giuliani was insis tant on the investigation. >> now us i asked this of ambassador volcker. if the mayor of portland said to the mischief i'm not going to authorize your budget unless you agree to do an investigation into my political opponent, would that be wrong? >> of course. >> and like wise, if it were the governor of the state of oregon, doing the same thing, correct? >> correct. >> would that same rule apply to the president of the united states? >> to investigate a political opponent, yes. >> so that's the question here. the president in his phone call, he asked president zelensky who desperately ne

mulvaney, mr. duffy, mr. pompeo, mr. bolton, mr. giuliani. why shouldn't those same sentiments be within their hearts to do their patriotic duty and do what you have done, sir? indeed, why doesn't that same standard apply to the president of the united states? >> i wish i could answer. >> i suspect you can't because there is no good answer but i appreciate your willingness to come here today. with that, i yelled back, mr. chairman. >> mr. jordan. >> i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a statement from mick mulvaney. >> we haven't seen all the statements but i presume they are accurate and no objections. >> ambassador, president trump is not a big fan of foreign aid. >> i don't know that's a fair characterization. i think he's careful. >> foreign aid going to certain countries. he knew ukraine was corrupt. >> he believed ukraine was corrupt. >> he wanted europe to do more. >> definitely. >> the president had a belief that ukrainian governmen governt officials supported his opponent in 2016. there was one member of parliament is th

giuliani. mr. giuliani said they thought ukraine should make a statement about fighting corruption and mr. yermac provided me a draft statement and i wanted to be assured that this statement would actually correct the perception that mr. giuliani had of ukraine and what they stand for now so that that would also be conveyed to president trump and solve this problem that i had observed with our may 23rd meeting with the president. the problem being that he's getting bad set of information. a statement like this could potentially correct that. >> so was mr. giuliani satisfied with this statement? >> no, he was not. >> why not? >> he believed it needed to say burisma and 2016 specifically or else it would not be credible, it would not mean anything. >> so in fact mr. giuliani wanted a statement that referenced burisma and 2016 elections explicitly. one that would benefit essentially president trump. mr. ambassador, here's the text you sent to the ukrainian official august 13th. you said hey andrey goo

mr giuliani remember that this year mark asked me to connect him with mr giuliani i did they had a meeting and then they both called me afterwards mr join ali said that he thought ukraine should make a statement about fighting corruption mr your luck said and we will say also specifically 2016 mr jeremiah provided be a draft statement and i want it is midnight's g.m.t. 7 pm in washington d.c. you're watching our coverage of the impeachment hearings more witnesses have been questioned about whether donald trump abused his presidential powers when he held up military aid to ukraine and asks its leader to investigate political rival joe biden the former u.s. special envoy to ukraine kurt volker testified that he didn't knowingly take part in efforts to investigate biden but admitted he should have realized what was going on area white house ukraine expert new tenant colonel alexander vinda men spoke about trumpets phone call with ukraine's president which is at the center of the allegations he described the call as improper and said he flogged it up out of a sense of duty and jennifer william

mr giuliani's advances i understood that to mean both his public commentary so publicly calling for investigations into 2016. very smart and hunter biden as well as his direct overtures to the government of ukraine. directly or through proxies that's what i understand and as you understand it under whose authority do you think mr giuliani was acting under congresswoman i don't know. did the ukraine caney and fishes you spoke to understand that mr giuliani was telling them to investigate vice president biden's son and debunk the 2016 conspiracy theories i'm sorry consider going to do you think that the ukrainian officials that you spoke to understood the underlining meaning of. mr giuliani's advances to be both investigating the bidens as well as debunking the 2016 conspiracy theories yes i think to be clear i think you're referring to. debunking that it was a russian interference actually now was somehow implicating themselves or was ukraine interference or not exactly now was this official us foreign policy to push for investigation into the bind. it was not part of any process by

i don't know if they were told by mr. giuliani. it would be pure, you know, guesswork on my part, speculation. i don't know. >> okay. during your deposition, you testified that you did not believe the ukrainians believed the -- were aware of the hold until the "politico" article? >> yeah, again, i think i testified that i was not clear on the exact dates of when these things -- when the light went on. there were a lot of conversations going on with the ukrainians by a lot of people. so i don't know who communecated what to them. >> we have testimony from several witnesses that the president was concerned about foreign aid generally. and so he had an appetite to put holds on aid because he was trying to be a good steward of u.s. taxpayer dollars. do you agree with that? >> i'm aware that that's been his position on aid and other matters, yes. >> and are you aware that he was also interested in better understanding the contributions of our european allies? >> that i'm definitely aware of. >> and there was some back-and-forth between

giuliani and mr. sondland and mr. mayak and whomever else, but for those text messages that we've been putting up on the screen all day we would have nothing. nothing. and this cover-up would be complete. that's something we should think about. now on july 19th you had breakfast with rudy giuliani at the trump hotel, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> in that conversation at one point he brought up mr. lutsenko and you said whateverly brought up is not credible, is that correct? >> yes. >> i'm going to quote you here. i've known him for a long time. he's a person of integrity to giuliani. simply not credible to me. joe biden would be influenced in his duties as vice president by money or things for a son or anything like that. we've had many discussions over the last few days about these investigations into burisma and biden and the 2016 crowd strike server and you in that conversation with mr. giuliani basically debunked all of that. now tattoo on at that breakfast, who else was with you at that breakfast? >> the

mulvaney, mr. duffy, mr. pompeo, mr. bolton, mr. giuliani? why shouldn't those same sentiments beat within their hearts to do their patriotic duty and do what you have done, sir? indeed, why doesn't that same standard apply to the president of the united states? >> i wish i could answer. >> i suspect you can't because there is no good answer. but i do appreciate your willingness to come here today. with that, i yield back, mr. chairman. >> thank you, congressman. mr. jordan. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i ask unanimous consent to enter into record a statement from chief of staff mick mulvaney. >> without objection. we haven't seen all the statements but presume they are accurate and no objection. >> thank you. ambassador, president trump's not a big fan of foreign aid, is that right? >> i don't know if that's a fair characterization. i think he's careful. >> express concerns about foreign aid going to certain countries. fair enough. and he knew ukraine was corrupt, is that right? >> he believed ukraine was corrupt. >> yeah and he wanted europe

we were working along mr giuliani's direction for a period of time. we still didn't have a white house meeting aid was now held up. there were lots of reasons being given by various people as to why those weren't moving forward and i finally got exasperated by receiving. embassador taylor's latest text and i just picked up the phone i got through the president i said what do you want shore are you aware of any specific conversations mayor giuliani had with the president between your may 23rd conversation and september 11th 2019. i don't recall if if marriage giuliani when i was directly talking to him either through a conference call or on the on a direct call whether he quoted from the president or said i just talked to the president most of the communications as i said went through ambassador volcker initially so i don't want to a pine on what may or may not have been said on page 11 they used your testimony you said mr giuliani had been communicating with ukrainians without our knowledge in the sume in your believe in your view mr volcker and ambas

mulvaney, mr. duffey, mr. pompeo, mr. bolton, mr. vogue, mr. giuliani? why shouldn't those same sentiments beat within their hearts to do their patriotic duty and do what you have done, sir? indeed, why doesn't that same standard apply to the president of the united states? >> i wish i could answer. >> i suspect you can't, because there is no good answer, but i do appreciate your willingness to come here today. with that i yield back, mr. chairman. >> thank you, congressman. mr. jordan. >> thank you. i ask unanimous connect to enter into the record statement from chief of staff mick mulvaney. >> without objection. we haven't seen all the statements but presume they are accurate and no objection. >> thank you. ambassador, president trump's not a big fan of foreign aid. is is that right? i don't know if that's a fair characterization. i think he's careful. >> expressed concerns about foreign aid in certain countries. fair enough. >> yes. >> and knew ukraine was corrupt. is that right? >> he believed ukraine was corrupt. >> and wanted europe to do more? >>

mr. giuliani expressed those requests directly to the ukrainians and mr. giuliani also expressed those directly us to. we all understood that these prerequisites for the white house call and the white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements. within my state department emails, there is a july 19th email. this email was sent -- this email was sent to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccormack who is secretary perry's chief of staff at the time, miss kenna who is the acting -- pardon me. who is the executive secretary for secretary pompeo. chief of staff mulvaney, and mr. mulvaney's senior adviser, rob blair. a lot of senior officials. a lot of senior officials. here's my exact quote from that email. i talked to zelensky just now. he is prepared to receive potus' call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation, and will turn over every stone. he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday so that he could put out some media about a friendly and productive call, no details, prior to ukraine

in early may, mr. giuliani publicly alleged that mr. zelensky was, quote, surrounded by enemies of the u.s. president and canceled a visit to ukraine. shortly thereafter, we learned that vice president pence no longer planned to lead the presidential dedication, and the white house whittled down to a proposed list for delegation from over a dozen individuals to just five. secretary perry as its head, special representative for ukraine negotiations, kurt volkvol volker representing the state department. national security council alex vindman, joseph pennington representing the embassy, and ambassador sondland. while he was the credited ambassador to the european union, he did not cover individual member states, let alone nonmember countries like ukraine. he made clear he had direct and frequent access to president trump and chief of staff mick mulvaney and portrayed himself as the conduit to the president and mick mulvaney in this group. volker, sondland and perry established themselves as the three amigos in this administration. around

the president through mr giuliani is conveyed through mr giuliani wanted the investigation mr tim morrison came in yesterday and his deposition testimony as well as yesterday disappears due to he called you quote unquote the gordon problem that's what my wife calls me. maybe they're talking he. should i be worried behavior be. you know on october 8th. of this year the president twee tweeted that you are a really good man and a great american and of course on november 8th one month later he said let me just tell you i hardly know the gentleman easy come easy go. you know what i'm concerned about. you were part of the 3 amigos but what i'm really concerned about ambassador sandlin is that the president and the good folks over here my republican colleagues are now casting you as the one in me go the one lonely amigo they're going to throw under the bus but the truth is that as you said in your opening statement the suggestion that you were engaged in some rogue diplomacy or irregular channel of diplomacy is important quote absolutely false isn't that right that's correct the presumption that

we did not want to involve mr giuliani. i believe then as i do now that the men and women of the state department, not the president's personal lawyer, should take personal lawyer, should take personal responsibility for ukraine matters. nonetheless, based on the president's direction, we were faced with a choice. we could abandon the effort to schedule the white house phone call and white house visit between presidents trump and zelensky, which was unquestionably in ourforeign zelensky, which was unquestionably in our foreign policy interest, or we could do as president trump directed and talk with rudy. we chose the latter course, not because we liked it, but because it was the only constructive path open to us. over the course of the next several months, secretary perry, ambassador volker and i were in communication with mr giuliani. secretary perry volunteered to make the initial calls with mr giuliani, given their prior relationship. ambassador volker made several of the early calls and generally informed us of what wa

you testified that mr giuliani's requests for a prig a quid pro quo for the white house meeting. and you indicated that you believe that was he was it even seeing president trump centrists cracked mr my contact with mr giuliani began as i said very late in the process after august 1st where when i was 1st introduced to him i by a text but from ambassador volker so we had already begun those discussions i believe with the ukrainians prior to august 1st so everything was being funneled through others including mr volcker ok but. you testified that mr giuliani was expressing the desires of the president correct that's our understanding again but how did you know that who told you well when the president says talk to my personal attorney and then mr giuliani as his personal attorney make certain requests or demands we assume it's coming from the president i don't i don't i'm not testifying that i heard the president tell mr giuliani to tell us so if that's your question i put your deposition you said the question was at the may 23rd meeting when the president said go talk to go talk

in early may, mr. giuliani publicly alleged that mr. zelensky was, quote, surrounded by enemies of the u.s. president and cancelled a visit to ukraine. we learned that vice president pence no longer planned to lead the presidential delegation to the inauguration. the white house then whittled down an initial proposed list for the official presidential delegation to the inauguration from over a dozen individuals to just five. secretary perry as its head, special representative for ukraine negotiations kurt volker representing the state department, national security counsel director alex vindman representing the white house, temporary acting affairs joseph pennington, and ambassador to the european union, gordan sondland. while ambassador sondland's mandate as the accredited ambassador to the european union did not cover individual member states, let alone nonmember countries like ukraine, he made clear that he had direct and frequent access to president trump and chief of staff mick mulvaney and portrayed himself as the conduit to the pr

mr. giuliani expressed those requests directly to the ukrainians, and mr. giuliani also expressed those requests directly to us. we all understood that these prerequisites for the white house call and the right white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements. within my state department emails there's a july 19th email. this email was sent -- this email was sent to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccormack, who is secretary perry's chief of staff at the time, miss kenna, who is the acting -- pardon me, the executive secretary for pompeo, mr. mulvaney and mr. mulvaney's senior adviser rob blair. a lot of senior officials. a lot of senior officials. here is my exact quote from that email. i talked to zelensky just now. he is prepared to receive potus's call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation and will turn over every stone. he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday so that he can put out some media about a friendly and productive call, no details, prior to ukraine election on sund

mr. giuliani expressed those requests directly to the ukrainians. and mr. giuliani also expressed those requests directly to us. we all understood that these prerequisites for the white house call and the white house meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements. within my state department e-mail, there is a july 19th e-mail. this e-mail was sent. this e-mail was sent to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, ryan mccormick, who was secretary perry's chief of staff at the time. ms. kenna who is the executive secretariat for secretary pompeo. chief of staff mulvaney and mr. mulvaney's senior advisor rob blair. a lot of senior officials. a lot of senior officials. here is my exact quote from that e-mail. i talked to zelensky just now. he has prepared to receive potus's call. will assure him that he intends to run a fully-transparent investigation and will turn over every stone. he would greatly appreciate a call prior to sunday so that he can put out some media about a friendly and productive call, no details, prior to ukraine election on sunday. c

first, at the time i was connecting mr. yermak and mr. giuliani and discussing with mr. yermak and ambassador sondland a possible statement that could be made by the ukrainian president, i did not know of any linkage between the hold on security assistance and ukraine pursuing investigations. no one had ever said that to me and i never conveyed such a linkage to the ukrainians. i opposed the hold on u.s. security assistance as soon as i learned about it on july 18th and thought we could turn it around before the ukrainians ever knew or became alarmed about it. i did not know the reason for the hold, but i viewed it as a u.s. policy problem that we needed to fix internally and i was confident we would do so. i believe the ukrainians became aware of the old on august 29th and not before. that date is the first time any of them asked me about the hold by forwarding an article that had been published in "politico." when i spoke to the ukrainians about the hold after august 29th, instead of telling them they needed to do something to get the hold released, i told then the opp

>> the president through mr. giuliani as conveyed through mr. giuliani wanted the investigations. >> mr. tim morrison came in yesterday and in his deposition testimony as well as questioned disparaged you, too, called you the "gordon problem." >> that's what my wife calls me. ( laughter ) maybe they're talking. should i be worried? >> may be. ( laughter ) you know, on october 8th of this year, the president tweeted that you are a really good man and a great american, and, of course, on november 8th, one just tell you, i hardly know the gentleman. >> easy come, easy go. you know, what i'm concerned about -- you are part of the three amigos, but what i'm really concerned about, ambassador sondland, is that the president and the good folks over here, my republican colleagues, are now casting you as the one amigo, the one, lonely amigo they're going to throw under the bus. but the truth is that, as you said in your opening statement, the suggestion that you were engaged in some rogue diplomacy or irregular channel of diplomacy is "absolutely false."

and i wasn't paying attention to what mr. giuliani was saying on tv. >> mr. castro questioned the testimony suggesting his recollection of events was simply speculation. >> what we're trying to get to the facts here, we're trying to figure out what exactly happened, what is reliable, we have this back and forth, but as we get to the end here, you don't have records, you don't have your notes, because you didn't take notes, you don't have a lot of recollections, i mean this is like the trifecta of unreliability, isn't that true? >> well, what i'm trying to do today is to use the limited information i have to be as forthcoming as possible with you and the rest of the committee, and as these recollections have been refreshed by subsequent testimony, by some texts and emails that i've now had access to, i think i've filled in a lot of blanks. >> so according to the "washington post," while the president was traveling yesterday, he called members of the house to argue that sondland's testimony was good for him. but white house aides telling the post that sondland

giuliani. when the chairman asked mr. mckinley whether he resigned in part because the quote efforts to use the state department to dig up on a political opponent he mr. mckinley responded that is fair and if i can underscore in 37 years in the foreign service in different parts of the globe working on many controversial issues working 10 years back in washington i have never seen that unquote. as the "washington post" reported september 21 the president's behavior related to this ukrainian matter has reveal quote in the opinion of those journalists that the post a reporter who has covered the president very closely number one quote the president convinced of his own invincibility apparently willing and even eager to wield the vast power of the united states to paint a political foe in confidence that no one could hold him back unquote. let me move to whistleblower protections. the president has directed some of his most pointed criticism that he brave whistleblower who came forward to expose the president call with the u

giuliani communicates in colorful and memorable terms what did mr giuliani say to you that caused you to say that he is expressing the desires of the president states. mr himes when that was originally communicated that was before i was in touch with mr giuliani directly so this all came through mr volcker and others so mr volcker told you that he was expressing the desires of the present united states. and subsequently when you saw the july the transcript of the july 25th conversation with president selenski you put it all together and you know this is the desire of the present united states after i saw the july 25th rewrite ok. other thing that is interesting here. you are your theme in your testimony today is that everybody knew and. signed off which is a little different from what we've heard right we've heard this from others saying that your effort out there was a regular it was shadow foreign policy. characterized as a drug deal and by the way i was not a democratic characterization despite what mr newness was that of course was the national security adviser united states chara

first, at the time i was connecting mr. yermak and mr. giuliani and discussing with mr. yermak and ambassador sondland a possible statement that could be made by the ukrainian president, i did not know of any linkage between the hold on security assistance and ukraine pursuing investigations. no one had ever said that to me and i never conveyed such a linkage to the ukrainians. i opposed the hold on u.s. security assistance as soon as i learned about it on july 18th and thought we could turn it around before the ukrainians ever knew or became alarmed about it. i did not know the reason for the hold, but i viewed it as a u.s. policy problem that we needed to fix internally and i was confident we would do so. i believe the ukrainians became aware of the old on august 29th and not before. that date is the first time any of them asked me about the hold by forwarding an article that had been published in "politico." when i spoke to the ukrainians about the hold after august 29th, instead of telling them they needed to do something to get the hold released, i told then the opp

first, at the time i was connecting mr. yermak and mr. giuliani and discussing with mr. yermak and ambassador sondland a possible statement that could be made by the ukrainian president, i did not know of any linkage between the hold on security assistance and ukraine pursuing investigations. no one had ever said that to me and i never conveyed such a linkage to the ukrainians. i opposed the hold on u.s. security assistance as soon as i learned about it on july 18th and thought we could turn it around before the ukrainians ever knew or became alarmed about it. i did not know the reason for the hold, but i viewed it as a u.s. policy problem that we needed to fix internally and i was confident we would do so. i believe the ukrainians became aware of the old on august 29th and not before. that date is the first time any of them asked me about the hold by forwarding an article that had been published in "politico." when i spoke to the ukrainians about the hold after august 29th, instead of telling them they needed to do something to get the hold released, i told then the opp

in early may, mr. giuliani publicly alleged that mr. zelensky was surrounded by enemies of the u.s. president and canceled a visit to ukraine. shortly thereafter, we learned that vice president pence no longer planned to lead the presidential delegation to the inauguration. the white house then whittled down an initial proposed list for the official presidential delegation to the inauguration from over a dozen individuals to just five. secretary perry, as it is head, ukraine negotiations kurt volker representing the state department, national security counsel director alexander vindman representing the white house, temporary acting charge of affairs joseph pennington representing the 'em bears, and ambassador gordon sondland. as the accredited ambassador to the european union did not cover individual member states, let alone non-member countries like ukraine, he made clear he had direct and frequent access to president trump and chief of staff mick mulvaney and portrayed himself as the conduit to the president and mr. mulvaney for this group. secretary perry, ambassador sondland and