that is included in the eelv. eelv is everything below that horizontal purple line. the eelv sitting upright is 3840. we also see -- >> if i could stop you for just one second. to help us understand better the mr. end expiratory lung volume, eelv, would that be, referred to as oxygen reserves? >> that's also where your main oxygen stores are in the body. they are contained within your eelv. this is where you store your oxygen reserves. >> so for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury , it's true that not all the air you breathe it is exhaled out? >> no. i mean, the eelv is basically the volume that is in your lung in between each breath. so when you are breathing in and out, when you're between the next breath, what is in your lung is your eelv. >> and the residual balls you, rv, is that also residual oxygen the body can you? >> yes. >> so the oxygen reserves you have are included in the eelv and obviously a subset of the eelv is a residual volume. all below the purple horizontal come all below your tidal volume is your oxygen reserves. >> so then can you explain your

blackwell: you ask questions about the measurements of the eelv. you arrived at the conclusion with mr. nelson there could have been theoretical measurements made. did you make any theoretical measurements of eelv as part of your analysis in this case? >> no i did not. blackwell: then nine minutes 29 seconds of mr. floyd's life. if we focus just on the period of time where mr. floyd is on the ground, subdue and restraint and that compression , can you tell us if it is your opinion as to whether or not mr. chauvin actions played any role in the death of mr. floyd during this of dual and restraint and compression on the ground. >> objection. >> sustained. blackwell: can you tell us whether it is your view that mr. floyd passed after nine minutes and 29 seconds was a coincidental unrelated to subdural restraint on the ground? >> objection. >> sustains. blackwell: over the questions. >> thank you doctor. you are excused. [inaudible conversations] [sidebar] >> the best way to do the next witness was scheduled for tomorrow we will start at 930 tomorrow.

. >> do you agree that as the eelv decreases, that it takes more work to breathe? >> i believe so, yes. >> incidentally you had a discussion with mr. nelson about >> can we agree that word doesn't appear in your report in any of the 31 pages expressed in your opinion? >> that is correct. >> now, you had made some comments earlier that you couldn't find anything in the literature if the hypopharynx was impeded? >> yes. >> and i take it you looked at forensic pathology literature? >> i searched general and forensic pathology sources, yes. >> did you look in actual physiology journals, sir? >> that i would consider to be part of the general medical literature. >> so, yes, you looked at physiology journal? >> i searched broadly for it. i don't know whether it's -- i did not specifically focus on look at physiology journals only. >> i don't want to confuse the jury. now, do you -- >> no. >> do you -- i'm sorry, judge. >> side bar, please. >> elie, let me bring you in. this seemingly surgical approach from this prosecutor at all these points the witness made. what's goin

floyd's eelv was while he was sitting on the sidewalk? >> no i don't believe i did. >> did you calculate the amount of air you took in with each breath? did you determine whether his breathing and eelv was normal or abnormal? incidentally, his eelv was 89 millimeters of mercury would you agree that would have been normal then before the time of the restraint on the ground? it's not something i keep in my head so i don't know, counsel. >> when mr. floyd then was laid prone on the street, when he is face down, did you do any calculations of what any reduction may have been in his eelv due to him being placed in a prone position? >> no. when he had his knees on mr. floyd's back and arm and side did you do any calculations quantitatively for how that weight on the back would have had any impact on his eelv? >> no i did not. >> would you agree then that is the eelv goes down, do you agree it takes more work to breathe? >> that is my understanding, but i am not a pulmonary physician. >> fair enough, but you would refer to a pulmonary physician.

the eelv sitting upright is 3840. blackwell: to help us understand better eelv is that commonly referred to as oxygen reserve? >> the main oxygen stores are in the body, contained within your eelv where you store your oxygen reserves. blackwell: for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is true not all the air you breathe and is exhaled out. >> no. the eelv the volume in your lungs in between each breath. when you are breathing in and out between the next breath what is in your long is your eelv. blackwell: the residual volume is that also residual oxygen the body can use? >> yes the oxygen reserves you have are included in the eelv and obviously a subset is a residual volume. all below your title volume is oxygen reserves. >> explain your calculations for mr. floyd's lungs. >> based on age and sex and height we see exactly eelv sitting upright is 3840. residual volume is 2300. blackwell: the amount of air he takes in title volume is the same as anyone else. >> 400 at the top the pink going up and down that is the

so, the oxygen reserves that you have are included in the eelv, and obviously a subset of the eelv is the residual volume. so, all below the tidal volume is your oxygen reserve. >> so then can you explain the calculations for mr. floyd's lungs? >> we see here based on his age, sex and height, we are seeing that his eelv sitting upright is 3,840. and we see the residual volume is 2,300. >> and the amount he's taking in would be the same as anyone else. a. >> that is the 400, the pink part going up and down, that is the tidal volume and that is the same for everybody. >> and 400 cc. is that cubic centimeters? >> that is cubic centimeters, correct. >> and the oxygen graph is on the side. >> back. >> what does that depict? >> the level of oxygen with anybody varies in age and this is exactly the level of oxygen you would expect in a 46-year-old man. so it is a pao2, that is the level and pressure measured if you were to do and the arterial blood gas where somebody stuck a needle in your wrist, took out a sample of arterial blood, that is the level of oxygen that they would find, 89. that'

and again, in terms of the eelv, am i saying that right? >> yes. >> that's the -- >> you're basing those calculations on the presumption the person is a healthy individual. >> in eelv, that could change. >> in terms of some of the other factors that you put into your analysis, -- >> and those volumes or those figures that you've assessed in connection with this case, they are conditioned upon him being a healthy individual. >> i mean, it varies in terms of the lungs. say, for example, compliance would very but end rate lung volume is -- >> what was the first one? >> lung compliance would vary from one person to the next person. it varies, different segments within the lung. they're not all monolithic. >> now, you talked about one thing in terms of -- this is a little bit of an aside. in terms of the prone position and the pushing of the stomach into the lungs, right? >> yes. >> the size of a person's stomach as some bearing on that, right? >> it does. >> a person like myself who has a few extra inches, if i'm prone, it's going to perhaps pu

. >> and, again, in terms of the eelv -- am i saying that right? >> yes. >> you are also basing those calculations on the presumption that a person is a healthy individual, right? >> for the eelv it's not going to change, really. >> but in terms of the normal respiratory -- excuse me, some of the other factors that you put into your analysis, it's all premised upon a healthy individual, right? >> it's based on a 46-year-old person of a particular height and sex, yes. >> who is healthy? >> correct. >> so you would agree if biology can change rapidly that the biological -- the specific biological conditions of mr. chauvin and or mr. floyd come into play, right? >> correct. >> and those volumes or figures that you assessed in connection with this case, they are conditioned upon him being a healthy individual? >> right. it varies in terms of the lungs. i mean, say, for example, compliance would vary but expandable lung volume is robust. it will not vary. >> but -- >> compliance would vary from one person to the next person, but it varies, different seg

floyd's eelv. he's the only person calculated the eelv, based upon the presumptions of health, based upon studies, based upon theory. all of this information. you can -- you can put this into a single frame. but, you have to analyze the evidence in the broader context. you can, also, see, during the clip, that officer chauvin actually re -- is sort of adjusted forward. and touches this car. right? you can make a lot of in -- informed decisions about what -- how has he shifted? if i am shifting my weight this way, the majority of my weight is shifting on my left foot. if i'm this way, it's on my right foot. you watch this video, and you can see the dynamic shifting. and you can see the placement of the toes, right? the toe tucked under helps an officer maintain his weight. or helps any person maintain their weight. but a toe flopped over to the side, it's a little harder to balance. you cannot take a single frame, and draw conclusion. you have to look at the totality. and remember, he said he spent

floyd's eelv. he's the only person who calculated the eelv based upon the presumptions of health, based upon studies, based upon theory. all of this information -- you can put this into a single frame, but you have to analyze the evidence in the broader context. you can also see during the clip that officer chauvin actually is sort of adjusted forward and touches this car. you can make a lot of informed decisions about, how is he shifted? if i'm shifting my weight this way, the majority of my weight is shifting on my left foot. if i'm this way, it's on my right foot. you watch this video and you can see the dynamic shifted, and you can see the placement of the toes. the toe tucked under helps an officer maintain his weight or helps any person maintain their weight. but a toe flopped over to the side, it's a little harder to balance. you cannot take a single frame and draw conclusions. you have to look at the totality. remember, he said he spent 150 hours analyzing this tape. his entire testimony is

floyd's eelv, he's the only person that calculated an eelv based upon the presumptions of health, based upon studies, based upon the theory. all of this information you can put this into a single frame but you have to analyze the evidence in the broad context. you can also see during the cliff officer chauvin sort of adjusted forward and touches the car. you can make a lot of informed decisions about how he's shifted. if i'm shifting my way to this way, a majority of my weight is shifting on my left foot. if i in this way, it's on my right foot. you watch the video and you can see the dynamic shifted. you can see the placement of the toes it helps an officer or any person maintain their weight. but the toe over to the side it's a little harder to balance. you cannot take a single frame and draw conclusions. you have to look at the totality. and remember he spent 150 hours analyzing you may not be misled by a single image we have to talk about the toxicology not suggesting that this was an overdose death it is a multifactorial process so we have to look at what role does the toxicology p

floyd's eelv, those would not have been measurements that you would have undertaken for any reason, right? >> correct. >> and to the extent we're looking for such measurements better to ask a pulmonology, respiratory but not a forensic pathologist? >> fair enough. typically forensic pathologists do not look at people who are breathing. >> by the same token, i had a series of questions about measurements of the carbon dioxide levels in florida floyd's body after he ceased to breathe. between the time that he ceased to breathe and before the time he was given oxygen, when he was picked up and given medical care and taken to hennepin medical center, you didn't do any quantitative analysis, did you, as to the carbon dioxide levels in mr. floyd's body in between the time he ceased to breathe and the time he would have received assisted oxygen? >> no, not specific quantitative measurements. no. >> we had quite a discussion about the paraganglione. do you remember that discussion? >> yes. >> we had a witness who referred to it as incidental. have you ever heard that before? >> yes. >> you talked