i really saw mike pence's hearts. i got to know him and boy was he ever standing for our values in congress. he was fighting to defund planned parenthood when it wasn't even cool yet, i can 2007. his detractors described it very well. they said he was on a one-man crusade whose assaults on planned parenthood provided a blueprint for the party's assaults. i can tell you, mike pence nuits even before the videos that our talks dollars -- tax dollars should not go to planned parenthood. they said he had a laser focus on planned parenthood and i knew that was true too. one of my favorite things he said about pro-life abortion, he said i would like to see roe v. wade overturned and consigned to the ash heap of history. can you applaud that, please? [applause] that says it all for us pro-lifers. he went on to become the governor of indiana, and what a job he did. as governor, every piece of pro-life legislation that came across his desk was signed into law. i noted two things, another common i detractors -- when he banned ab

then of course all the fury of the left came upon him for o telling the truth about mike pence. i know the family leader, people with great character in office and that's exactly who mike pence is. when you think about what's happened as he was in congress, when he was in the governor ship, the great state of indiana, now think about him as vice president. vi you it say to perfectly clear to me and to you, i am short that the best thing candidate trump rated was picked mike pence for his running mate.ik [applause] best thingng ever. [laughter] thank god they were elected and went you think about that time, those four years and i feel like they were four years the lord gave us to do great things, when you think about what he did, he was at the heart of the president and mike pence at the- heart of protecting our religious liberties. at the heart of defending unborn innocent lives here and abroad at the heart of changing united states supreme court to a six -- three conservative majority. [applause] steve and i have 12 grandchildren on behalf of our children and grandchildren, has

that's exactly who mike pence is. when you think about what has happened as he was in congress, when he was in the governorship of the great state of indiana, now think about him as vice president. i want to say to you, it is perfectly clear to me, and to you i am sure, that the best thing candidate trump ever did was picked mike pence for hisnn running mate, best thing ever. [applause] thank god they were elected. and when you think about that time, those four years, and i feel like they were four years that the lord gave us to do greatt things, when you think about what he did, he was at the heart, the president and mike pence, at the heart of protecting our religious liberties, at the hearte of defending unborn innocent life here and abroad, at the heart of changing the united states supreme court to a six-three conservative majority. let's applaud that. [applause] even i have 12 grandchildren. on behalf of our children and our grandchildren, has anybody t thought about the dog cave lately? we're so grateful, and t

i haven't spoken to mike pence about these calls. i have spoken to president trump about it and what strikes me is if you are donald trump and you believe mike pence has committed treason and was so disloyal to overturn an election, wouldn't you want some sort of apology or sort desk or some sort of resolution before you start these russians again -- before you start these conversations again question mark host: joel --? host: joel -- caller: i have a few questions for you. first of all, i'm not a trump fan. i know him personally. what he did to my family and people in atlantic city. he is a liar and cheat. i have no liking for trump. in the election itself, there are questions that have to be answered. when you hear is a big live. it's not a big live -- when you hear it is a big lie. it's not a big lie. my mother in the 70's was a republican inspector where she had passed. she went to neighborhoods that were worse than vietnam. she had to to inspect the election county. in philadelphia, there was an incident when a guy with an orang

mike pence did his job and followed the constitution. mike pence did his duty to the country. he had no powers to do anything else. and yet, donald trump to this day, and again, it gets you back to the bigger point. that's one piece of the many fictions, lies, falsehoods that donald trump continues to tell. it's another piece of this foundation of the big lie which brought those people to the capitol. the committee can -- hopefully, to your point about how do you build this now? to the chief's point, who paid for the buses? who sent the first email that was then spread to everybody? to the proud boys. to the haters, to the violent groups. the groups known to the violent and thousands of people who may have come here because they believe the big lie and some of them got caught up in something horrible. the digital footprint is critical in this relationship. mike pence from the capitol, we know he called asking for the national guard. saying i need it now. well, what were the delays? were they just normal delays? sometimes bureaucracy happens or was the president of the white ho

but talk about mike pence's role on the january 6 former president view of mike pence. where, in your estimation is his relationship with the former president? >> at this time i would say near to nonexistent. the former president seems convinced that mike pence has the power to reverse the electoral vote and he would use that power on the president's behalf and essentially install the president for a second term january 20 this was absurd and preposterous and mike pence told him i can begin or could not and would not happen but the president continues to believe that and where it did not happen, where mike pence did not, he regarded it as a profound betrayal and although there's been some minor effort to put a better face on this, the president continues to be deeply resentful about his former vice president. >> the attack on the u.s. capitol led to the second impeachment of donald trump in writing about legal efforts in the book mckusick trump was ranting to his legal team that he didn't want the trial going down this way, technicality, free speech, jurisdiction balone

hours later, rioters stormed the capitol. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> bring out pence! >> bring out pence! >> bring him out! >> pence had to be taken to safety and today, trump still doesn't acknowledge his role in the veevents of january 6th and continues to perpetuate the big lie, led to five americans dying there. today, 25 five days after the t free and fair election, trump putting out statements including the governor allowed this election in georgia to be rigged and stolen and quote, had the election not been rigged and stolen i would have won easily, that's what he's saying today. christian holms is "out front "livey pence spoke today. the lul tenant full of praise and going against trump's view on the vents of january 6th. >> that's right, erin. pence is really walking a tight rope here. this is a man that wants to stay politically relevant and stay in the arena. there is already speculation he'll run for president in 2024 but sees what we see, despite january 6th. despite this increased rhetoric against the election, against our democracy, the republican party

he dauked about mike pence he talked about mike pence. you asked what did he want the people who he told to go to the capitol what he wanted them to do when they get there, he stumbled around it and said i wanted what they wanted. well a lot of them wanted to hang mike pence. >> an what did donald trump want ed for vice president mike pence to overturn the results, not constitutional but in trump's mind is what he thought his loyal vice president should have done. ironic trump said pence should have been a statue just following rules, for four years pence was a statue, just standing by trump's side nodding his head and not causing trouble for trump. >> i find it hard to imagine the former president restrained himself and never said to his vice president what he wanted him to do. he was saying, no, didn't tell him to do anything, kind of. >> he absolutely asked him. >> yeah. >> he absolutely asked him, multiple times. >> i want to play another clip from your interview with the former president when he talks about pence. let's watch. >> who

he talked about mike pence in the last bite, he talked about mike pence. you asked what did he want the people who he told to go to the capitol what he wanted them to do when they get there, he stumbled around it and said i wanted what they wanted. well a lot of them wanted to hang mike pence. >> an what did donald trump want ed for vice president mike pence to overturn the results, not constitutional but in trump's mind is what he thought his loyal vice president should have done. ironic trump said pence should have been a statue just following rules, for four years pence was a statue, just standing by trump's side nodding his head and not causing trouble for trump. >> i find it hard to imagine the former president restrained himself and never said to his vice president what he wanted him to do. he was saying, no, didn't tell him to do anything, kind of. >> he absolutely asked him. >> yeah. >> he absolutely asked him, multiple times. >> i want to play another clip from your interview with the former president when he talks about pence. let's watch. >> who

let's talk about mike pence's role on that january 6 and the former president's view of mike pence since then. where in your estimation is his relationship with the former president? >> at this point i would say in the nonexistence. the former president became convinced that mike pence had the power to reverse the electoral vote. and he would in fact use that power on the president's behalf. and essentially install the president for a second term on january 20. this was absurd and preposterous. mike pence had told him again and again and again this could not happen would not happen. but the president continue to believe that. when it did not happen when mike pence did not he regarded this as a profound betrayal. although there has been some minor effort to put a better face on this unknown the president continues to be deeply resentful for the vice president. >> of course the attack on the u.s. capitol led to the second impeachment of donald trump and the legal effort in the book. you say trump was ranting to his legal team that he did not want the trial going down this way. technicaliti

i haven't spoken to mike pence about these calls. i have spoken to president trump about it and what strikes me is if you are donald trump and you believe mike pence has committed treason and was so disloyal to overturn an election, wouldn't you want some sort of apology or sort desk or some sort of resolution before you start these russians again -- before you start these conversations again question mark host: joel --? host: joel -- caller: i have a few questions for you. first of all, i'm not a trump fan. i know him personally. what he did to my family and people in atlantic city. he is a liar and cheat. i have no liking for trump. in the election itself, there are questions that have to be answered. when you hear is a big live. it's not a big live -- when you hear it is a big lie. it's not a big lie. my mother in the 70's was a republican inspector where she had passed. she went to neighborhoods that were worse than vietnam. she had to to inspect the election county. in philadelphia, there was an incident when a guy with an orang

let's talk about mike pence's role on that january 6 and the former president's view of mike pence since then. where in your estimation is his relationship with the former president? >> at this point i would say in the nonexistence. the former president became convinced that mike pence had the power to reverse the electoral vote. and he would in fact use that power on the president's behalf. and essentially install the president for a second term on january 20. this was absurd and preposterous. mike pence had told him again and again and again this could not happen would not happen. but the president continue to believe that. when it did not happen when mike pence did not he regarded this as a profound betrayal. although there has been some minor effort to put a better face on this unknown the president continues to be deeply resentful for the vice president. >> of course the attack on the u.s. capitol led to the second impeachment of donald trump and the legal effort in the book. you say trump was ranting to his legal team that he did not want the trial going down this way. technicaliti

in terms of -- let's talk about mike pence sen. hirono: on the january 6 -- andy -- about mike pence on that january 6 -- where is his relationship with the former president? guest: at this point i would say it is near to nonexistent. the former president became convinced that mike pence had the power to reverse the electoral vote, and that he would in fact use that power on the president's behalf. and essentially install the president for a second term on january 20. this was absurd and preposterous , and mike pence had told him again and again and again that this could not happen and would not happen. but the president continued to believe that. and when it did not happen, when mike pence did not do this, he was regarded as a profound betrayal. and although there has been some minor effort to put a better face on this, the president continues to be deeply resentful about his former vice president. host: the attack on the u.s. capitol live to the second impeachment of donald trump. you said that trump was ranting to his legal team

. >> if mike pence had the courage to send it back to legislature you would have a different outcome in my opinion. >> is that what you told him to do? >> i didn't tell him to do anything. >> what did you want him to do? >> i thought that the election was rigged. i think that when you have more votes than you have voters, i think that -- the vice president of the united states must protect the constitution of the united states, right? and it says very, very clearly protect the constitution of the united states. i don't believe he's just supposed to be a statue who gets these votes from the states and

. >>> later, mark short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence, will join us to weigh in on today's strong jobs reports and the telast policy proposals. we'll be right back. dow is up 150. [wrestling bell rings] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] ♪ try to be best 'cause you're only a man ♪ ♪ and a man's gotta learn to take it ♪

but would he keep mike pence on his ticket? what the former president is saying about that in the new book, "ai loan can fix it". >>> plus transportation secretary pete buttigieg will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. re watching" we'll be right back. there's an america we build and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civilized all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l introducing the wildly civilized before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? the instant air purifier removes 99.9% of the virus that causes covid-19 from treated air. so you can breathe easier, knowing that you and your family have added protection. ♪ ♪ here are the two bat

former president mike pence? >> i do not even know if there are words to describe that relationship. they are speaking to each other their multiple phone calls. it's phone calls back and forth. i've not spoken to mike pence i spoke to president trump about it.he if you are donald trump and you believe pence has effectively committed treason and was so disloyal to turn an election against you before you start these conversations again? he told me was a just don't talk about it. >> list get a couple more calls will go to joe in somerset, new jersey. joe republican line hi there. >> caller: good morning gentlemen how are you? i have a few questions for you. first of all i'm not a trump fan. i know him personally there is a relationship to my grandmother and him what he did to my family and people in atlantic city. he is a liar and a cheat i have no liking for trump. in the election itself there are questions that have to be answered. it is not a big lie. there are questions that have a never been answered that we al

it falls to mike pence in a meeting in the summer of 2020 that it's basically over. she was close to rick scott, who was also talked about as a 2024 contender. he tells trump that desantis is trying to knock her out in order to take a step ahead of rick scott, and not surprisingly, it sort of sits well with trump. he understands it. but calls desantis. he says, what's going on, i want suzie back. desantis tells him suzie whields is basically a bat boy on his team, and this is what really infuriates trump. trump wants to make the decision here, and in a heated oval office phone call, trump tells desantis, this is my decision, stay out of it. >> yeah. suzie wilds is a name that some of our viewers may know her name. for those that don't, she, as you point out, is an extraordinarily important wired in operative in florida and haas been for so long and has been such a critical part of the presidential landscape and map. it's very telling. >> she ran rick scots campaign in 2010 when he was an insider. she came in and saved desantis's campaign when he was behind the polls.

mike pence helped donald trump get out of the mueller investigation. mike pence stood around silently many times over the four years that donald trump was president and didn't say much and didn't do much to hold the president accountable. you know, there's accounts of bill barr that have come out about different things that bill barr did or said. there was no greater enabler of donald trump than bill barr. so i understand the importance that these individuals played in the historic moments after the election and how the country was on its edge, but these were folks that were still there after four years of donald trump being president. these were people that had seen the president act upclose. i guess some of them thought they needed to be there to stop trump from hurting himself and hurting the country. and i understand the unusualness of that phenomenon. but at the same time, i don't think many of us were surprised by donald trump's behavior after the election. >> and kasie right in the middle of this week when we're getting these breathtaking excerp

oh, mike pence? we're coming for you too, [ bleep ] traitor! >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> reporter: sergeant aquilino gonnell, who also served in iraq, first to testify. >> on january 6th, for the first time, i was more afraid to work at the capitol than in my entire deployment in iraq. >> reporter: the sergeant thought he was going to die. crushed by the mob, sprayed by chemicals. >> i arrived at home at nearly 4:00 a.m. on january 7th. i had to push my wife away from me because she wanted to hug me and i told her no, because of all the chemicals that my uniform had on. i'm sorry. >> reporter: then officer michael fanone. >> i was dragged from the line of officers and into the crowd. i heard someone scream, "i got one!" as i was swarmed by a violent mob, they ripped off my badge, they grabbed and stripped me of my radio, they seized ammunition that was secured to my body. they began to beat me with their fists and with what felt like hard metal objects. i heard chanting from some in the crowd, "get his gun. and kill him with his own gun." i thought of my four daughters

that's why i said just a moment ago, i wish mike pence had pushed back a little more. but then again, you know, he wouldn't be renominated in 2020, and that's the risk he was pushing. and with barr, he runs the risk of being fired. that was sort of the moral of the story in a lot of ways about the trump administration, is that people were more concerned about their jobs than about principle and about pushing back on the president, about doing the right thing. and that's one of the reasons why we are where we are today. >> so, i wonder what you think about mike pompeo's portrayal here. he certainly would fit into the category. this book reveals he warned colleagues, quote, the crazies have taken over as trump's fraud conspiracy theories were growing after the election. >> that's really nice that he thought that and he said that privately. why didn't he go -- come here, go onto fox and say that? why? and we're all hearing it now. oh, the crazies were there. there was nobody there to push back. it's terrible. look, it's rudy giuliani's fault. well, you could have said som

it's like with mike pence. mike pence tells him he's not going to do it, he's not going to do it but the president is still coming back saying you're going to do it, you're going to do it. he believes in the power of his own voice, the singular power. >> he also must know people around him will speak and are speaking to you and other reporters, so he wants to get in on that. he knows people are not loyal around him in terms of silence around him. >> it's almost -- it's really difficult to understand because in addition to that when i spoke to many people and they say, oh, well, you know, and i said the president -- i've spoken to the president. and they said, okay, let me check with the president. and then the president would say oh, yeah, talk to him. then they'd say these horrible things about the president. so this is a disconnect at so many levels. >> some of your sourcings come under criticism in the past. there was an excerpt. liz harrington who's a new spokesperson for donald trump tweeted, quote, all th

oh, mike pence? we're coming for you too, [ bleep ] traitor! >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> reporter: sergeant aquilino gonnell, who also served in iraq, first to testify. >> on january 6th, for the first time, i was more afraid to work at the capitol than in my entire deployment to iraq. >> reporter: the sergeant said he thought he was going to die. >> back up, no, stop. >> reporter: crushed by the mob, sprayed by chemicals. >> i arrived at home at nearly 4:00 a.m. on january 7th. i had to push my wife away from me because she wanted to hug me and i told her no, because of all the chemicals that my uniform had on. i'm sorry. >> reporter: then officer michael fanone. >> i was dragged from the line of officers and into the crowd. i heard someone scream, "i got one!" as i was swarmed by a violent mob, they ripped off my badge, they grabbed and stripped me of my radio, they seized ammunition that was secured to my body. they began to beat me with their fists and with what felt like hard metal objects. i heard chanting from some in the crowd, "get his gun." and "kill him with

they asked him about mike pence and what he actually wanted mike pence to do on january 6th. >> i always liked mike. i was very adisappointed and so were a lot of republicans. very disappointed. because had is he sent them back, which took courage, but not a lot of courage, what courage would have been is to do what thomas jefferson does, did. he could have done that, too. but that would have been politically unacceptable. but sending it back to these legislatures, who now know that bad things happened, would have been very accepted. and i think, i could show youeters from legislatures, big scale letters from different states, states we're talking about, had he done that, i think it would have been -- i think it would have been a great thing for our country. i think it would have been a great thing for our country. and so it is -- >> i mean, tolluse, he expected this? >> it seems so. and we talk about the alternate reality that he lives in. it seems like since leaving the white house and going down to mar-a-lago and his private clubs he's cocooned himself from the career officials an tho

it's like with mike pence. mike pence tells him he's not going to do it, he's not going to do it but the president is still coming back saying you're going to do it, you're going to do it. he believes in the power of his own voice, the singular power. >> he also must know people around him speak and are speaking to you and other reporters, so he wants to get in on that. he knows people are not loyal around him in terms of silence around him. >> it's almost -- it's really difficult to understand because in addition to that when i spoke to many people and they say, oh, well, you know, and i said the president -- i've spoken to the president. and they said, okay, let me check with the president. and then the president would say oh, yeah, talk to him. then they'd say these horrible things about the president. so this is a disconnect at so many levels. >> some of your sourcings come under criticism in the past. there was an excerpt. liz harrington who's a new spokesperson for donald trump tweeted, quote, all these s

in pence, super disappointed in mike pence, over and over again, telling us why pence was weak, pence was a statue, pence let him down, pence, according to donald trump, didn't protect the constitution because he failed to reject those votes. >> which is actually the opposite of what happened. he did protect the constitution and did his job on that day. another conversation we were just talking to a member of the january 6th committee and our panel was talking about the politics of it, donald trump discussed january 6th with you, we'll listen to a little bit of it here, it is a parallel universe. listen. >> a loving crowd too, by the way. a lot of love. i heard that from everybody. many, many people told me. that was a loving crowd. >> when you sit there, you mentioned your experience, when you sit there, does he believe this delusional stuff or is he the wizard behind the curtain and he knows it is bs but it is his shtick? >> as i said, from stem to stern, from his forehead to his toes, he looks like a guy who believes what he's saying. i look for someone that head fake, that look do

and they have, you know, pictures of a hangman's noose with mike pence on it. i guess my question is on one hand that seems scary. on the other hand, maybe democrats, this is a good side show and then you kind of look at the country in the independence or out there say, let the media are alive. wow. well, there's a lot there. i think one key thing to keep in mind is that and so linda alluded to this very, very reliably, the party that holds the president, the loses seats in mid term elections. right? there has only been 2 exceptions in the last 90 years. so for our audience, just lemetre up. so for our audience, mid term elections, we're talking about is 2022 next year. so just wanted to punctuate that point. go ahead. absolutely, and i think what's critical to know then is yeah, the democrats go into this election facing headwind having to defend senate seats in traditionally republican places like arizona in georgia. and at the same time yeah, clinging to a very, very narrow house. majority right now. and facing the prospect of redistricting. that could alone

pictures of a hangman's noose with mike pence on it. i guess my question is, on one hand that seems scary. on the other hand, maybe democrats, this is a good side show and that, you know, you kind of look at the country in the independence or out there say, well, let the media or alive. wow, well, there's a lot there. i think. one key thing to keep in mind is that and so linda alluded to this very, very reliably, the party that holds the president. he loses seats in mid term elections. right? there have only been 2 exceptions in the last 90 years. so for our audience, just let me interrupt. so for our audience, mid term elections, we're talking about is 2022 next year. so just wanted to punctuate that point. go ahead. absolutely, and i think what's critical to know then is yeah, the democrats go into this election facing headwind having to defend senate seats in traditionally republican places like arizona in georgia. and at the same time yeah, clinging to a very, very narrow house. majority right now. and facing the prospect of redistr

at the time it was as mike pence said or as mike bender reported, mike pence and his team were trying to put corey lewandowski on the payroll as essentially a favor to the former president. so i have also not independently confirmed that scene in the oval office but do know that what mike pence's reported in that book is what happened. >> josh dawsey, always great to have you on. appreciate your time. thank you. >>> coming up, president biden met with leaders of national civil rights groups to talk about how to safeguard the right to vote. we're taking you inside that meeting with somebody who was there live after the break. [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost today. there's an america we build and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introdu

the former president and mike pence these days? >> i do not even know if there is a word to describe that relationship. they are speaking to each other there are multiple phone calls as phone calls back and forth. i have not spoke to mike pence about these calls. i have spoken with president trump about it. what strikes me is that it you are donald trump and you believe mike pence has effectively committed treason and was so disloyal to overturn an election or to turn an election against you, wouldn't you want some sort of apology? or some sort of resolution before you start these conversations again? but he told me was they just don't talk about it. >> host: will go to joe in somerset, new jersey. joe republican line hi there. >> good morning hi there gentleman. i have a few questions for you. first i am j not a trump fan. i know him personally. my grandmother and him and what he did to my family and people in atlantic city for he is a liar and a cheat. i have no liking for trump. but in the election itself there are questions tha

in fact vice president mike pence would be held in a secure location underground at the capital. it felt like those on the phone with the pentagon and on the phone with congressional leaders and urging that swift response and acting as the commander-in-chief and that is because according to the reporting he was back at the white house and the private dining room watching it all unfold on television but not actually doing his duty as the president and as the commander-in-chief to respond in any way in the hours you have a president completely missing and the vice president filling in the gap and the pentagon's senior leader chris miller the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and others were responding and taking orders and in close contact with speaker pelosi and senator schumer, mitch mcconnell and other congressional leaders to sort of strategize and understand what was happening and they didn't really care what he had to say because the resident said nothing. >> what you just said, let's not just let it pass by. that's an extraordinary statement from the acting defense secre

people were chanting, hang mike pence, all around him and it was vice president pence who is calling the pentagon and who was saying get these troops here now and get this building under secure. get this building cleared out of these rioters and importantly he refused to be evacuated from the capital because the vice president thought it was essential for the american people that he remain in the capital to do his job and certify the election whenever the senate and the house could reconvene. it's a chilling bit of reporting it speaks to how little trump did in that moment. he effectively melted away. >> carol, let me ask you another question about process. there's so many people floating around washington who want a little dose of -- geography. they won't distinctive working for trump off of there otherwise stellar resume's. and some of them are vaunted people. esper barr milley pence for that matter, ivanka and jared. when an author comes along, how do you guard against becoming their resume burnish-ing tool in the scope of a massive project that you two were involved in? >> i'm re

people like that mob who were chanting "hang mike pence," he wants power very, very badly. he's trying to figure out a way to do it by appeasing everyone. it's comical to watch from the outside because in some ways it's kind of sad. this is someone who clearly is not a trump republican in the sense that he put in a whole lot of years of loyal service, and in the end the president turned on him and so did the mob. now he wants the former president and the mob to support him and somehow find his way into the white house. it seems like a very, very far stretch i think we can expect more strange speeches like the one we saw yesterday. >> republican leader kevin mccarthy visited with former president trump again this week. this time at bedminster. here is what he told fox news about what they discussed. >> these were some of the actual discussions i had with president trump, talking about the border, talking about our success in the last election, talking about our first six months in fund-raising. and we've talked about you a little bit, too, sean. and that was all good. >> oka

. >> the biggest enemy to the maga world is mike pence. mike pence was one of the most faithful people to donald trump. but if you turn an ounce against donald trump, your out of the tribe. >> talk about this purging of moderate republicans from the ranks of the modern republican party. what does that mean for the future of the party? >> yeah. what i think about first when i think about the republicans trying to purge the moderates, is that that's not their strong suit. when it purges all of the moderate members, that creates more independents and democrat voters. they can defeat the extremists or make sure the other party wins. it's easy. the republican party can't grow or evolve without being more inclusive, including mike pence. we're never going to get back to being a big tent party. pro anti-choice. now, it's just pro anti-trump, period. my question, kind of around all of this, is why are they so focused on fighting within the party right now. we're facing so many things. climate change, the pandemic, and we're arguing about who is mo

. >> and when you talk about the republicans who could stand up to this, mike pence comes to mind, the former vice president. when he's out there, the former vice president who is a loyalist to trump who was originally on the ticket, in order to try and shore up that conservative base that former president trump clearly no longer needs mike pence for, he's getting booed at events. they're shouting him down. you have republicans like adam kinzinger who it is unclear what his political future will be as a result of this. so you talk about the next election. it really will crystallize what direction also the republican party is going and who they're listening to. >> one of the questions heading into the election is will we have the report of the new select committee? let's bring in the chairman of the house homeland security committee. bennie thompson. mr. chairman, grateful for your time today. when you listen as you did right there to the former president over the weekend doubling down, tripling down, i don't know what to call it, on the big lie in the context of your investigation, do

oh, mike pence? we're coming for you [ bleep ]ing traitor. >> they got the gallows set up outside the capitol building. it's time to start using them. >> start making a list, and we start hunting them down one by one. >> that's what we need to have, 30,000 guns. next trip. >>> he'll be back, he warns us, is just chilling. i thank god for our democracy and our republic. what stood this assault. but that man's warning reminds us that this threat hasn't gone away. it looms over our democracy like a dark cloud. some people are trying to deny what happened, to whitewash, to turn the insurrectionists into martyrs, but the whole world saw the reality of what happened on january 6th. the gallows sitting out there on our nation's mall. the flag of that first failed and disgraced rebellion against our union being paraded through the capitol. the hatred. the bigotry, the violence. and all of it for a vile, vile lie. let's be clear, the rioters who tried to rob us of our democracy were propelled here by a lie. a

and which he reviews his thinking of mike pence on january 6th. >> rudy actually did a very good job with legislatures, you know when he went before -- had mike pence had the courage to send it back to the left legislatures you would've had a different outcome in my opinion. >> is that when you told him to do, the vice president? >> i didn't tell him to do -- identities to do anything. >> what is -- what did you want him to? do >> i thought the election was rigged. >> more of the same, back with us tonight eugene robinson pulitzer prize-winning columnist from the washington post, you got a laugh eugene, and mark kellan former advisor george w. bush. he is of course among the cohost of the circus on showtime. gentlemen welcome back. eugene i'm told went on fox news tonight and impounded this theme that it's all about pelosi not providing enough security. you just saw. him in an olympic piece of gaslighting saying it was the democrats who put the capital police at risk. eugene, am i missing anything deeper here or does mccarthy pretty much take orders from trump and other -- and are th

i'm thinking about mike pence and the run up to january 6th where trump wads pushing him. this is detailed in the book, pushing him to overturn the election results and pence and his team thought they had been very clear with the president. what pence told him was, i don't think there's any authority here for me to do what you're asking, but if your legal team has come up with a different analysis, we'll take a look at anything. mike pence is a polite man and thought he was being respectful. trump hearing the second part. when i interviewed president trump and asked him if pence had ever told him he wasn't going to overturn the election, trump told me no, he hadn't. >> wow. mike pence may be polite, it doesn't make him any less culpable in all this that happened. michael, i have to ask you, the other michael. make this make sense. i'm petty enough to say 8,000 more times, we tried to tell you. now that other people seem to have caught on, why are republicans still beholden to this crazy person? he's mental. >> yeah, you know, they picked up 11, 12 house seats and they drew

he writes, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution. at this very time pence and his family are being taken to safety along with an aide who's carrying the country's nuclear launch equipment. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> at 2:25 p.m. there's another major breach on the opposite side of the building, the east side. rioters have been battling a handful of officers at these doors for almost half an hour. the tide turns when rioters who came through the crypt reached through the doors and pulled them open. then an active duty marine officer keeps the door open for the mob to flood in. >> dude, you can't touch that. we are one of you. we are one of you. come on, americans. >> that went on for several more hours resulting in injuries to more than 150 police officers. the deaths. you can understand a few of those deaths much better from the video as well. six months later we are still learning about what happened that day and it is for that reason it is so important to have an investigation, a full one. today we learned the names of

they failed to protect mike pence from donald trump. i want to read more about mike pence's experience on january 6th. they go on to record at 2:26 p.m. after a team of agents scouted a safe path to ensure the pences would not encounter trouble, giebels, their top secret service agent, and the rest of pence's detail guided them down the staircase to a secure subterranean area rioters couldn't reach where his armored limousine awaited. he asked pence to get into one of the vehicles. we can hold here, he said. i'm not getting in the car, tim, pence replied. i trust you, tim. but you're not driving the car. if i get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. i'm not getting in that car. the pences made their way to a secure underground area to wait out the riot. pence feared a conspiracy, feared that the secret service would aid trump and his ultimate aims that day. this is the most harrowing version of mike pence's day i've seen reported. >> nicolle, this is typical of a dictatorship of an authoritarian anti-democratic regime. this is not

people were channelling hang mike pence all around him and it was vice president pence who was calling the pentagon, who was saying get these troops here now. get these buildings under secure. get this building cleared out of these rioters. and importantly, he refused to be evacuated from the capitol because the vice president thought it was essential for the american people that he remain in the capitol to do his job, to certify election whenever the senate and the house could reconvene. it is a chilling bit of reporting and it speaks to how little president trump did in that moment. effectively melted away. >> carol, let me ask you a final question about process. there are so many people floating around washington who want a little dose, who want a chance to get the stink of having worked for trump off their otherwise stellar resumes. and some of them are vaunted people. esper, barr, milley, pence, e-ivanka and jared. so an offer comes along and how do you guard against becoming their resume burnishing tool in the scope of a massive project you two are involved in. >> i'm really glad

mike pence was in office when that happened. but i think this is what you're seeing, especially with this alabama senate race, of course, because moe brooks who was at the day of the insurrection speaking at the rally beforehand was one of the people telling people to go and kick some ass. this is who they're running against. it's how trumpy can you be in this race? >> that's an important point. 20 republican health seats up. that alabama seat right here, pretty safe to say in a midterm election that's going to stay red. because it neighbors you're going to have senator war warnock trying to hold his seat in georgia. when you see in the states trump won, that saying the liberal stole the elections? no, that's not what happened. but critical race theory and that's the dog whistle of the race card in that ad. >> and in georgia you're going to have republicans trying again to label him as a radical, liberal socialist communist. but the republican field at least in georgia is kind of in disarray, because trump has tried to recruit f

mike pence never told me no. >> again and again and again, you bring up that pence thing because pence, except for throwing paper at him once at a time, having paper thrown at him in the press in 2018, never tells the president really flat-out the truth about the election. there were campaign advisers who went in to him early after the election day and said there was only a 5% chance? >> 5 to 10% chance of winning. if you recall, the election takes a few days to be called. the people closest to trump are trying to decide what to tell him. some people did want to tell him. you've lost, let's move on. the decision ultimately is to present trump with a plan that he still has, not to tell him he lost, but he still has a chance to win. 5 to 10% chance. and i tell you, there is not a 5 to 10% chance of overturning one of those states. >> right. >> let alone all three that they needed. >> what he heard there was, you're saying there's a chance. >> correct. think back to 2015 and his first meeting with corey lewandowski, his first campaign manager, who told him we have 5 to 10% chance of winni

>> well, we got very lucky with mike pence. i mean the way i see it, chris, is we had a huge demonstration organized by the president, and inside that was another ring which was a violent insurrection in which the three percenters and the proud boys and oath keepers, and inside that was the coup donald trump was trying to orchestrate targeting mike pence. all they wanted pence to do was to rebuff the electors coming in from arizona, georgia and pennsylvania, lowering biden below 270, kicking it into a contingent election. there we voted it because we vote not one member, one vote, but one state, one vote. if they had been able to do that, which would not have been that much if you look at the different things mike pence did over the prior four years for trump, they would have won it with 27 states to 22 for the democrats and one tied. at that point he probably would have followed the advice of michael flynn and imposed martial law and a state of siege. this would have been the reichstag moment, basically declaring, look, the de