this is not something we have seen before at this high level inside the doj. i will read to you what you see here. it is very clear. they want it to do trump's bidding and say the governor of georgia should have called a special session to consider the important and urgent matter of trying to overturn what the voters there decided to overturn georgia's results and to have a state-run coup out of the doj. you may be thinking okay, ari, that looks really bad and certainly different than what we see. outside the building, this is the secret stuff. this is the stuff that trump hopes would not come out tonight or would not ever come out during his life. that letter was never sent. a different official had to go to stop what was the secret coup. in the e-mail there was no chance i would sign this letter or anything remotely like it. we reported last week that donald trump had this pressure campaign from the doj that we were learning that he was asking for this. we were learning notes where he basically laid out the strategy, pushed the agitatives and have the govern

he called the doj. ramsey called in the dojp unjeff sessions, bill barr abthey said this is hurting morale of police officers so you didn't have federal oversight. this is why elections matter processor. for all the people out there saying voting isn't a big deal,s in the difference between a biden/democrat white house and republican white house where they want to must go and embrace cops and not hold them accountable. but you still need the george floyd act. i say senator lindsey and senator scott you have to be more aggressive to get your party over the line when it comes to votes to pass that. because if you do not have federal legislation this thing could go back and forth based upon who is in the white house. you need to have a bill that is strong to hold these police officers accountable >> i'm going to get joyce's comments on this. but i know you have a teeoff. if you disappear from the screen we understand and thank you >> i told congressman jim clyburn they can wake >> i like the work he is doi

but if you get a bar fight or something you won't be covered by doj. and bill barr look to that determined that donald trump's comments, that was part of the presidency and i was very outspoken at the time and that was absolutely wrong, the wall the present has a very broad a job description, they can to be part of it. i felt vindicated a couple weeks or months later when a federal judge who appeared in front of, took the same vision as an outcome of the doj coming cannot do this case because it can possibly be within the scope of the residency to defame somebody who is accused of assault predict and under bill barr, that doj appeal to, and when merrick garland comes in, and said we will continue this appeal keep fighting. i think it was wrong. and i think also america garland it missed an opportunity to say that we are different, not doing things this way and stretching the law does prosperous extreme just in order to protect donald trump. i think what merrick garland was doing is searching for the path of least resistance the path of least political

the doj ig doesn't have any authority over non-doj employees. i don't see any current doj employees in this picture. it is time to move on with a criminal referral and get a real case started. >> betsy, i'm going to give you ten seconds to think about that while i read another chunk from your great reporting. so you also write that barr had told donoghue that the fib needed to conduct some interviews about the state farm allegations rather than relying on the investigation as frank is saying. it may well be that the georgia sos is correct in what happened, but the fact is that millions of americans have come to believe, rightly or wrongly, that something untoward took place, and it is incumbent to conduct an investigation to assure the american people that we have lead at these claims. do you have a sense of how many, how many inputs like that went from doj? because we've seen reporting about the lasers and there's been reporting about all sorts of -- and so wacky was a threshold that met opening an investigation, do you have a sense if there we

if that is true that president trump was trying to break the doj and use it. possibly even racketeering, and all of those things need to be considered. >> i want to circle back to gop hypocrisy when it comes to, quote, law and order. she argues a party should not be trusted with power. especially as we see republic-led states try to change election rules in their favor. >> it's important to note that this is part of a pattern, what trump allegedly did with the doj is something he did with the department of homeland security. having homeland security go after protesters in portland, for example, and obliterating the normaler hierarchy of that important department for protecting homeland security. underlying all of this is the desire to preserve white male dominance and white male supremacy at the expense of the safety and well-being of communities of color, whether it's immigrants or black communities within the united states, and also underlying all of this is the presumption of the genetic superiority of whites. they do not want black voters or latino voters

but if you get a bar fight or something you won't be covered by doj. and bill barr look to that determined that donald trump's comments, that was part of the presidency and i was very outspoken at the time and that was absolutely wrong, the wall the present has a very broad a job description, they can to be part of it. i felt vindicated a couple weeks or months later when a federal judge who appeared in front of, took the same vision as an outcome of the doj coming cannot do this case because it can possibly be within the scope of the residency to defame somebody who is accused of assault predict and under bill barr, that doj appeal to, and when merrick garland comes in, and said we will continue this appeal keep fighting. i think it was wrong. and i think also america garland it missed an opportunity to say that we are different, not doing things this way and stretching the law does prosperous extreme just in order to protect donald trump. i think what merrick garland was doing is searching for the path of least resistance the path of least political

now be investigating the former president and what he tried to do, how he tried to co-opt his doj? we'll talk about that right after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ fixodent ultra dual power provides you with an unbeatable hold and strong seal against food infiltrations. fixodent. and forget it. i've been telling everyone... the secret to great teeth is having healthy gums. keep yours healthy with crest advanced gum restore. it's clinically proven to detoxify below the gumline. and, it restores by helping heal gums in as little as 7 days. because you cant have a healthy smile, without healthy gums. advanced gum restore, from crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. welcome to allstate. (phone notification) where we've just lowered our auto rates. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and savings like that will have you jumping for joy. now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. ♪ thousands of women with metastatic breast c

and, wolf, it appears that some of these doj officials are already talking. they're also sharing their notes and documents from what turned out to be these very fateful weeks between the election and january 6th, probably more to come here, wolf. >> i suspect there's a lot more to come. all right, jessica, thank you very much. let's discuss this and more with cnn political director david chalian, dana bash, and asha. david chalian, this is so stark because if trump had succeeded, for all practical purposes, potentially there could have been a coup. >> this is the makings of a coup. that's what you're seeing. and what we have here, it's kind of amazing. you have a tale of two jeffreys, two draft letters. one jeffrey rosen, the acting attorney general, his chief of staff having this draft resignation letter for fear that rosen's about to be fired because he won't agree with the president's direction to do something improper against the law. i mean, that's what the guy who's, like, running the department of justice in the trump administration prepares in a resig

clark sending the e-mail trying to get involved in it with the doj into georgia after these election fraud claims have been debunked. that's really concerning. if there's a connection that is drawn between mr. trump directly pressuring mr. clark to circulate the memo and effort, it would be even more evidence against mr. trump having tried to directly interfere with the doj operation. >> you know timeline here is so critical. not only after there was a push behind closed doors by trump to investigate the election and election fraud. in big air quotes. the capitol riot then happened. explain how deep the investigation could dive into trump's meddling efforts within the doj. >> right. we have to look at how late it goes into 2020 and early into 2021. because we have evidence that the doj had done the investigation and had determined there was not a basis to interfere with what georgia was doing in the ultimate certification process. you have to remember, though, legal basis was relatively schism. it was really two parts. mr. barr's administration had determined very firmly it was not t

to co-opt his doj? we will talk about that right after the break. he used to have gum problems. now, he uses therabreath healthy gums oral rinse with clinically-proven ingredients and his gum problems have vanished. (crowd applauding) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. at carvana, we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms, with care and respect. to us, the little things are the big things. which is why we do everything in our power to make buying a car an unforgettable experience. happy birthday. thank you. we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms. because that's what they deserve. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean now helps the places you go too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. >>> we're back now. michael bender here with me. max, so many republicans are embracing the big lie and your column in the "washington post" today s

it appears maybe some of these doj officials are already talking. as we see here, they're sharing notes and documents from those fateful weeks between the election and january 6th. >> all these new details are helping to paint a clearer picture of what was happening behind the scenes. amanda carpenter is a cnn political commentator and joe l lockhart is with us as well. joe, your thoughts first? >> as dramatic as the testimony was last week from the capitol police, this is really what congress and doj needs to get at. january 6th was the symptom. the disease was trying to overturn an election. that is as serious as you can get, you know, in u.s. politics. i hope congress and doj really dig in and get at that and who was involved and what they did. >> amanda? >> i mean, i think we all know this was a systemic, deliberate attempt over many months to overturn the lelection. what we've learned are about the fragile guardrails that held, the people who said, no, we won't do this, bill barr walking away, the officials down in georgia, various canvassing b

doj has told trump officials that they can cooperate. we might get more documents that show how far the white house and trump went to put this pressure on and overturn the election. >> every single new episode we hear about is more chilling and there's no reason to believe there won't be more. jessica, thank you very much. let's bring back laura coates. she is back with us. so, laura, just what i just said, it is chilling to hear how president trump and his lackeys were trying to subvert democracy. and if it were not for men of conscience, you know, people, sane people of conscience who had to stop them, i don't know where we'd be right now. >> or people who simply read the law, right, alisyn, and also heard from the attorney general of the united states at the time, william barr, who said there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud. you would think that of course because jeffrey clark is under in terms of the org chart, he'd fall under the attorney general of the united states, that he would have some information that, say, william

that something totally out of the norm for officials other than the attorney general at doj. and we also know that in this testimony this weekend, rosen and donoghue told lynn lawmakers that trump, he never ordered them to do anything illegal and trump eventually accepted their advice. that doj could claim fraud when they have zero evidence of it but still, they remain a lot of questions about who else at the white house might have been part of this push to get doj involved in pushing these false election fraud claims, and potentially what other schemes might have been in the works. so erica, this might be the tip of the iceberg, what we've already seen come out, there needs to be a lot more testimony that the senators are pushing for in particular, they want to hear from jeffrey clark who's been at the center of this. >> wow. as you pointed out it could be the tip of the iceberg. thank you . >>> despite the pandemic, thousands of unmasked bikers gathered for a huge rally in sturgis, south dakota. again, i'll be joined by a local doctor who fears this could be a super spreade

the doj inspector general could make a referral to criminal investigators and prosecutors at doj if that office finds evidence that someone committed a crime. the senate judiciary committee investigation focused exclusively on all the crazy stuff that happened at the top of the justice department in trump's final days. that panel, of course, is responsible for doing oversight he at the justice department and the fbi. and then the january 6th select committee is going to be looking more broadly both at, again, the whacky fest and the truly shocking stuff that happened at doj, but also more widely at outside folks, at tech companies, at the january 6th attack on the capital at what led up to that take and what happens after. that investigation scope is wider and it's not going quite on full seam yet. it only recently got stood up. it's still in the process of bringing on its staff. still figuring out how it's going to work. senate judiciary is going on all systems right now and that's part of the reason why we're learning as much as we are from these witnesses including former u.s. attorne

and colleagues at doj saying there is no chance they'll get on board with this. one of them writing there was no chance he would sign this draft letter or anything remotely like this adding from where i stand, this is not even in the realm of possibility, jim. >> so we know that house investigators interviewed the former justice department official who drost -- who drafted a letter of resignation over trump's direct instructions, that is a quote, to use the department to support his false election claims. he didn't tender that resignation letter in the end. why? >> well simply because his boss acting attorney jeffrey rosen was not dismissed. so let me take you inside of the doj and the white house and in these very important days leading up to the riot. it was january 3rd, there was this apre -- apprentice style meeting within the white house because clark was trying to boot jeffrey rosen from doj saying he won't get the job done but i could. he wanted to advocate himself to the president that he could take the election clause forward. so they have this apprentic

preet, what could have happened if the doj was being run by people who didn't push back? >> there was a prospect of that. some of these notes also indicate that donald trump was trying to replace barr's replacement. so replacement for replacement with someone who is more pliable. i shudder to think what would have happened if the place was run by people who were just prepared to do anything that trump asked them to do and also the white house counsel's office. some of what we've seen is that don mcgahn, who i think was no hero in lots and lots of ways, the former white house counsel to president trump -- at the end of the day when asked to do the unthinkable, fire bob mueller, didn't do it. in this case these career professionals didn't do it. i'm not saying they should be lauded as heroes necessarily because i think the bare minimum of what's required of someone either at the line level of the doj or at the pinnacle of that department is not to accede to a political candidate's mandate to overturn an election based on no facts. remember, at the time this was all happenin

and that left rosen to step up and run the doj for weeks. an ongoing senate probe brought rosen in to detail what many experts now see as clearly a failed, quote, coup attempt with a trump lackey. other trump appointees pushed back, one writing there's no chance i would sign on to that. rosen now blowing the whistle on that trump lackey inside the doj that went over his head to have secret conversations with trump to plot the takeover. here's durbin with the new testimony. >> would you describe it as a coup attempt? >> it's its own version. we should not dismiss this as a bad day for donald trump, and it was a conscious planned strategy that did not work, thank goodness. >> yeah, thank goodness, sure. rosen also knew trump was on his way out one way or the other, but we have to deal with this as more than a history of a fluke. what if it were a closer call? what if these people that pushed back instead saw a path to a second term. what if bill barr was there brainstorming ways to stay in office? what if it came down to just one state? these

we see that the president tried to weapon nize doj to steal thi election. there is nothing normal and acceptable. it's an act of disloyalty by donald trump, rey clark. it needs to stick with them for history and there needs to be real consequences. >> jeffrey clark is the trump loyalest at the center of this and abc news has gotten a letter showing he tried to meddle in the georgia election. he was vying for the job in the hours long oval office meeting jessica describes as "apprentice" style and wants to replace him with clark and trying to overturn the election there. the on consequences of all of t could have been incredible. >> absolutely. look, this is two days before the insurrectionist attack on the capitol and we see behind the scenes, this hinchman willing to do the president's bidding, drafting a letter to encourage the governor to overturn an election in georgia turning the country to complete chaos and counting of the electoral college vote. this is more than cynical career but jeffrey clark. this demands accountability. we see all the evidence

it's extraordinary. >> what about the doj, the current doj under the biden administration with merrick garland as attorney general. that doj, ordering the treasury department to give the u.s. house the former president's tax returns. where do you see that heading? >> so that's another somewhat unusual thing to have happen. you do sometimes see that when an administration flips from one party to the other, you do sometimes see that the department of justice taking different position from the prior department of justice. the office of legal counsel within the department of justice is supposed to be a fairly resilient, you know -- it's supposed to be a department that just follows the law. and when you have a flip-flop like this, when you have one olc, office of legal counsel, opinion reversing one from just two years ago, it is a little bit jarring. however, i think that in this case, it was the right thing to do. because, basically, what the office of legal counsel under trump said was that the treasury department could just second-guess a congressional committee. that has a right to re

that is doj. might just kick the can down the road a bit. but i don't think, unless their legal colleagues think so, they're mutually exclusive. >> let me bring jeffrey back into this conversation. a lot of democrats are looking into merrick garland to investigate this, restore integrity over the department of justice. does he need to take a more aggressive approach here? >> well, i certainly think there is no problem with an investigation. but, you know, one -- everything we are outraged by is not a crime. and i think, you know, it is very important if you believe in civil liberties to limit criminal violations, limit the prosecution of criminal violations to actual, provable violations of federal law. i'm not sure that jeffrey clark's letter -- in fact, i would be surprised if that is a violation of any criminal law. it is outrageous. it should be condemned. but i think we need to keep a clear line between what's criminal and what's merely outrageous. and the justice department at least so far seems very determined to do that. >> laura? >>

meanwhile tonight cnn learned another high ranking doj official, richard don hue testified today. he previously provided the congress resistant pressure from trump to interfere with the election results. democratic senator sits on the judiciary committee. i spoke with her just before. >> senator, i know you cannot divulge into details of the private testimony of richard do donahue but in general terms, how much closer do you believe congress is learning the full scope of trump and one loyalist, jeffrey clark, were trying to do here? >> i think we are getting closer to the full range of trump's big lie and his use of the department of justice like it was his own law firm. jumping over the attorney general, acting attorney general and trying to get them to push out the big lie. we are closer to getting to the truth. by the way, this is important because the big lie still going on with all of these voter suppression bills being considered in the legislatures. >> so many people sadly buy the big lie. >> yes. >> there's new reporting that jeffrey clark was actually given a high level i

it's time for doj to act. there is no off-ramp unless the former president is held accountable. >> that is really important analysis. joyce, thank you so much. you're sticking around a little longer. i want to say katie's dog is ready for her to be done, and we're grateful to have had you and your reporting. thank you for joining us. ben, thank you as always for starting us off. >>> when we come back, we'll talk with one of the senators who heard from jeffrey rosen himself on the ex-president's attempts to sow doubt on his loss using doj. where do the investigations go next? >>> and the epicenter of this covid outbreak remains florida, florida, florida. the governor there fighting against mandates and all mask restrictions. but can schools and businesses break through to change the direction of the virus and protect people? >>> plus, later in the show, the fight for the facts about january 6th goes on, as the committee adds another republican to their ranks. all those stories and more when "deadline: white hou

and so far they've been centering around how trump and his allies pressured top doj officials to over turn the elections. investigators will be going through more details in coming days since the top officials from the time, the acting attorney general jeff rosen an richard donahue are slated to be interviewed by the select committee in the next few days and they could give more insight into the records that they kept from late december, early january, when that pressure was amped up from the president and pressure even from the head of doj civil division, jeffrey clark. that is someone who investigators want to talk to. so the timeline that is emerging here is disturbing. so we know this, based on handwritten notes from deputy a.g. donahue, it is during a phone call with trump where he told doj official this is, he said just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the r congressman, the republican congressman, we don't know who. then it is one day later when jeffrey clark was head of the civil division, a division that won't have any part in investigating election i

hr four, along with the biting joa -- doj -- biden doj is an attempt to radicalize elections. it is a power grab, p &. thank you, -- plain and simple. thank you, i yield back. >> we welcome our witnesses and thank them for participating. i will introduce them in after we introduce them, we went -- will go into their oral testimony. we will have questions and after the conclusion of the second panel, russians of all of the analysts. each of your -- questions of all of the analysts. there is a timer in the zoom review that should be visible on your screen. when you get to four minutes, you need to start to wrap up. when you get the five minutes, he should be finished. before proceeding, i would like to remind all of the witnesses that you have a legal obligation to provide truthful testimony and answers to the subcommittee and that any false to meet you may make may subject you to prosecution under section 1001 of title 18. the sole witness on our first panel is christian clark. ms. clark is the assistant attorney general for the civil rights division of the united states depart

and expected everyone from the doj to the supreme court to help them get away with it. joyce vance is a legal analyst and former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, and she joins me now. joyce, thank you so much for coming on the show. mark meadows is a private citizen, what kind of criminal exposure might he have right now? i want to play a little bit more from that phone call with raffensperger, here's mark meadows trying to persuade ryan germany to give over voter data to the trump team, with an assist from the president himself, take a listen. >> what you're seeing rain, let me make sure, so what you're saying is you really don't want to give access to the data. you just want to make another case on why the lawsuit is wrong? >> i don't think we can give access to data that's protected by law. but we can sit down with them and say -- >> what you are allowed to have a phony election? you are allowed to have a fully election, right? >> what type of criminal liability does he have in a state like georgia? >> it's an important question, and the answer man

the doj has since sued the state over the move. it's this type of anti-immigrant scapegoating that can lead to dangerous consequences. "the dallas morning news" writes two years after the alleged shooter drove ten hours from allen to el paso, to quote, stop the hispanic invasion of texas, conditions and red rhetoric have titaned. this is especially the case in texas where once-contrite politicians are emboldened and political promises are broken and gun laws have been loosened, making it possible for anyone over age 18 to buy a gun. in texas, instead of passing gun safety measures after a mass shooting, the state's ultra conservative legislature made it easier. then there was the party's rejection of science. governor greg abbot refuses to make the schools mandate, as cases rise among the unvaccinated. the castro brothers, msnbc political analyst and julian castro and texas congressman, joaquin castro. it is great to see you. start with the doj's decision for its prove to restrict transportation of migrants. the governor now using

>> this is an impeccably well qualified doj. everyone from the attorney general on down who will be involved in considerations of investigations and prosecutions has deep experience. they know the business of prosecutions. medhi, you've heard me say so many times that it's a lot easier to be an arm chair prosecutor than it is to actually be the perpendicular who's in the grand jury looking at the evidence, making sure that you've got proof beyond a reasonable doubt on all elements of a crime before you indict. i think the folks that president biden has put in place are more than capable of making these tough decisions. these are people who will resist any sort of external pressure. they'll just look at the facts and the law. >> let's see what happens. joyce vance, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >>> congresswoman madeleine dean is a democrat from pennsylvania and a former impeachment manager. she joins me live now. congresswoman, as a former impeachment manager, what are you thinking when you hear about the scope of ma

sources tell cnn that jeffrey clark told senior doj officials in late december he nuisance t -- knew sensitive information using special kinds of they arrmometeo change results in machines tallying votes. thermometers. it is unhinged. it would be laughable except this was an official in the justice department who became an assistant attorney general and given a high level intelligence briefing which did nothing to convince him to drop his bogus claims of election fraud. this is where we are right now. it was nothing less than an attempted coup. efforts to weapon news the doj, the insurrection even the assault on the vote it's all part of the threat to our democracy. and the threat is still there. the voting rights is all about giving the gop the power to overturn the next election and it is happening right now. texas governor greg abbott calling for a special session of the state legislature in hours to push voting regulations democrats blocked by fleeing the state. this was the week that we learned just how close we came to losing it. now the question is will we heed the warning sig

rachel's been reporting on attorney general garland's various tests at doj and the challenges he faces. this is surely one of them. and he's out swinging the bat for restoring the full law and its approach, righting of the voting rights act's preclearance provision were still operative many republican voter suppression laws wouldn't have been allowed in the first place, that's the key preclearance issue i mentioned. if it feels like people are always playing kind of a legal catch-up with these restrictions all over the place, that's not an accident. that's because the supreme court swooped in and made it so the only way to advocate noting voting rights is to be reactive. a new report out today argues this is an inflection point at protecting our democracy and says after reviewing thousands of pages of evidence and a lot of testimony from experts, congressional action is needed. senate democrats suggest a vote is coming on a slimmed-down version of the for the people act written by senator merkley who stood with the texas democrats who have been in washington pushing on the issue. >> th

just how far trump was willing to go to pressure the doj to undermine the election results. could this be his third impeachable offense? >> i tweeted that half in jest. i think if there had not been two prior impeachment attempts, if he were still in office, there would be some movement in that direction. because this conduct, by the way, is arguably the most egregious conduct of his presidency. it didn't involve ukraine, it involved trying to weaponize the justice department, which is supposed to be neutral, and to overturn an election. and the current justice department, full of career people, obviously led by a politically appointed process, has made the determination that these notes were to be turned over to the house and senate committees, which means they've made a determination that this conduct was extraordinary, shouldn't be protected under executive privilege, and was in his capacity as a candidate, not as president. and i think that the conduct was outrageous, and maybe the worst of his presidency. >> he's only been out of office eight months. i can't imagine wha

so i think it is a good move on the part of the doj. i was glad to read that mayor opened this investigation and welcomes it. pretty much assured it will be open and transparent. i hope mean phoenix, of course, is one of the departments over the years that has struggled under a great deal of issues around policing there. >> we should note, both the mayor and the police chief pledged full support for this investigation. joyce, the investigation if it goes, you know, relatively smooth as one would think it could, what kind of changes do investigations like these lead to in the city and the police department? >> the changes are driven by any problems that doj finds in the course of the investigation. i think he is absolutely right here when he says this case gets opened on the basis of citizen complaints that are public. now doj has to review documentation and body camera footage inside the police department to meet with community stake holders and citizen groups to wrap its arms around the situation stlofg department and whether there are

now politico is reporting that rosen's deputy and another doj official were prepared to resign effective immediately if trump had in fact fired rosen as was feared. most stunning, however, is that the resignation letter that they prepared accuses trump of trying to, quote, utilize the department of justice's law enforcement powers for improper ends. but wait, there's more. another damning story reveals that acting attorney general rosen also faced pressure from inside the department of justice. abc news reports that in late december trump loyalist jeffrey clark, who then served as the acting head of the doj's civil division, pushed rosen to intervene in the certification of georgia's electoral votes. clark drafted a letter for rosen and his deputy that urged georgia officials to, quote, investigate and perhaps overturn president joe biden's victory in the state. but rosen's deputy, richard donoghue, rebuffed clark saying there is no chance that i would sign this letter or anything remotely like this. adding, quote, i cannot imagine a scenario in which already-certified election results s

horowitz' inspector general investigation of doj. now, having covered four years of the trump-era doj it's intriguing to me that mr. horowitz is the only major agency ig who wasn't fired when pompeo's ig was fired, the pentagon's ig was fired, most of them were fired under the ex-president. horowitz remained. that said, i hope he does a stellar investigation of doj. but would you expect criminal referrals for someone like mr. clark? >> i think it's way too early, nicolle, to say. i certainly don't think the fact that donald trump left mr. horowitz in suggests that horowitz is in trump's pocket or anything like that. i mean i never want to attribute any strategic insight to trump when incompetence is the better explanation. usually that's how these things unfold. so, you know, there is the possibility the ig makes a criminal referral. there's also the possibility that the justice department opened its own investigation into this apart from the ig. i really do think that is appropriate here for the reasons frank nailed on the head. jef

just recently, the date maybe a month or so ago and doj with rudy giuliani's home, there was reporting later that the biden white house was really ticked off because that night was biden's first joint address of congress and they wanted to be a moment and get the big talk of the news media was diverted to this rate on rudy and myself a story, about good. exactly how it should be. the last thing doj should never be doing is going on to the white house and say, we did do a big thing today that my takes media attention away are you cool with that printed you want to soften the fact that i was glad to see the biden white house was ticked off at that. should be no communication regarding the prosecutorial function doj and so i'm encouraged that were making progress on that level we need policy changes as well. >> and i want to get into some of the questions here from the viewers don't freak out. i'm just going to your first name. if you don't want me to use your first and last name just put it in there. to start, ellen are you going to get reading e.g. carol, did they decide to continue wit

congressman, what donald trump tried to do with the aid of the doj, well some officials in the doj, was to try and overturn the election. he tried to do a coup, did he not? >> he absolutely did. when we did a house impeachment trial, i presented their section on the former president's efforts to overturn the election by pressuring the department of justice to just make stuff up. we knew there was a lot of bad things that were happening. we couldn't get our hands on the evidence. i'm very pleased that jeffrey rosen is now stepping forward and providing actual testimony to investigators and i urge justice to look at what he's saying. >> so given you agree it was a coup. given the importance of these officials, why weren't jeffrey clark and other doj officials called as witnesses at the impeachment trial in the senate earlier this year? that seems like a huge missed opportunity. >> because what would have happened is the republicans would have rejected it and we'd still be doing the impeachment trial right now, litigating those objections in court. so that was a problem. it was sort of the

>> yes, so this tells me doj is looking more broadly than just the police department itself. of course, the police department is sort of intertwined with the city on a lot of its practices, but i think it could be some of the things paula talked about. this idea of retaliation could mean two things. it could mean retaliating against civilians who come forward with complaints, it also could mean retaliating within the police department. if a police officer comes forward and says, i saw something improper, is that police officer then being demoted or treated differently? if so, that's a city-related issue because the city handles employment for the police department. also, the issue relating to homelessness, i mean there obviously are city wide implications of that. that's something that goes beyond the police department. those two things, how do our police deal with people who are disabled and homeless, that's new. that's not something you typically see in the pattern and practice investigations. >> yes. just as if on cue, the mayor of phoenix has just said she welcomes this i

the absurdities being pushed by trump loyalists and the doj. i mean, it -- they're really frightening. it -- it's another -- and just a growing list of efforts by the former president and his allies to undermine the election. and no matter how you slice it, they were, clearly, plotting a coup. >> yeah, this wasn't a spontaneous, sort of, emotional response that where passions got too high. and then, it resulted in some crazy behavior. this was a concerted effort. um, and i would say it's not only undermine the election, which -- but it was to undermine our entire democracy and our constitutional form of government, that's been established for 240 years. so, the -- these folks, you would -- you would say, is bizarre and crazy, if it wasn't so dangerous and detrimental. and we're still suffering from it, i think. the destructive -- the destructiveness to our system is -- we're still feeling. and i think we're going to continue to feel, for a long time. so, i put him in the same category as somebody, like benedict arnold. a traitor to the country.

my former doj lawyers can't actually testify. that was the outstanding question. and if trump had said that, then it could have really slowed down the process by which this testimony moved forward. according to the letter we obtained, what trump's legal team has told the former doj officials, they are actually for now in good shape to testify to these congressional committees. trump's lawyers are interesting characters and the verbiage in this letter is a little weird. he says what trump's lawyer says is these former doj officials can testify but if congress tries to get privileged information from other former officials in my administration, then i'm going to fight tooth and nail, that's a paraphrase, to keep them from testifying. so trump isn't saying he's rolling over but saying in this specific case, with these specific former officials, at this specific moment in time, he's not going to try to slow down the hill and that's a big deal. >> betsy woodruff, swan. thank you. >>> two more washington plufrz police officers who responded to the riots january 6th have

the doj has since sued the state over the move. it's this type of anti-immigrant scapegoating that can lead to dangerous consequences. the dallas morning news writes two years after the alleged shooter drove ten hours from allen to el paso, to quote, stop the hispanic invasion of tex as, this is especially the case in texas where once-contrite politicians are emboldened and political promises are broken and gun laws have been loosened, making it possible for anyone over age 18 to buy a gun. in texas, instead of passing gun safety measures after a mass shooting, the state's ultra conservative legislature made it easier. then there was the party's rejection of science. governor greg abbot refuses to make the schools mandate, as cases rise among the unvaccinated. the castro brothers, msnbc political analyst and julian castro and texas congressman, joaquin castro. it is great to see you. start with the doj's decision for its prove to restrict transportation of migrants. the governor now using migrants as a political tool to shift the b

well some officials in the doj. was to try to overturn the election. he tried to do a coup did he not? >> he absolutely did when we did a house impeachment trial, i presented this section on foreign presidents efforts, to overturn the election. by pressuring the department of justice. and just make stuff up. we knew there's a lot of bad things that were happening. we couldn't get our hands on the evidence. i'm very pleased that jeffrey rosen is now stepping forward, and providing actual testimony. for investigators and i urge the department of justice to really look at what goes into this. we've >> given you agree it was a coup. given the importance of these officials, why weren't jeffrey clark and other doj officials called as witnesses, at the impeachment trial in the senate earlier this year. that seems like a huge missed opportunity. >> because what would happen in these republicans would've objective. and we would still be doing the impeachment trial right, now litigating those objections, in court. that was a problem. it was the timing of. it we

which went against his conspiracy theories that clark was pushing at the doj, in support of the outgoing president. one of the theories clark was spreading -- we're not making this up -- was that chinese intelligence used special kinds of thermometers to change results in voting machines. again, i'm not making that up. meanwhile, tonight, cnn has learned that another, former high-ranking doj official, former-acting deputy attorney general, richard donoghue, testified before the senate judiciary committee, today. donoghue, according to his own notes, previously, provided to congress, resisted pressure from trump to interfere with the election results. democratic senator, mazie hirono, sits on the judiciary committee. i spoke with her, just before air. senator, hirono, i know you, of course, cannot divulge into details of the private testimony of richard donoghue before the judiciary committee today. but -- but in general terms, how much closer do you believe congress is to learning the full scope of what then-president trump and at least one loyalist, it appears, in the justice department

what the cash influx and the doj has to say about it next. h inflj has to say about it next ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪ and there you have it - wireless on the fastest, most reliable network. wow! big deal! we get unlimited for just $30 bucks. i get that too and mine has 5g included. impressive. impressive is saving four hundred bucks a year. four bucks? that's tough to beat. relax people, my wireless is crushing it. okay, that's because you all have xfinity mobile. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. >>> in the nearly seven months since the january 6th insurrection, prosecutors are filed charges against more than 500 people and at least 30 of them are members or associates of white supremacist groups including this guy, 30-year-old ethan nordine, a self-described sergeant at arms for the proud boys. prosecutors say nordine seen here in photos inside the capitol helped the proud boys hatch a plan to attempt to break into the building at as many points as possible to stop the certification of the electi

maria: well, the doj doesn't go. they're saying to states thread carefully in auditing elections especially in 2020, stephen. stephen: on the first point that you made, it is insane that we are having a conversation in washington when our infrastructure is melting down our very eyes and the sovereignty of the country is being wiped out. they ought to have the position that there will be no negotiations with this president over any of his signature policy priorities as long as he is failing in his fundamental constitutional obligation to protect the nation's borders, in fact, doing the opposite, working through radical staff to eliminate, erase and invalidate our nation's borders. on the point about election audit, anybody who opposes a forensic audit of the election is in favor of fraud. it's that simple. you cannot have an election, not ever in which people can mail thousands of ballots in and there's no effort to link the ballot itself with an actual registered lawfully registered voter. just nameless ballots disco

in september 2020, he was put in charge of the doj's civil division. new york times reported that in december, as acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and his deputy richard donahue, were pushing back on trump's attempts to use the justice department to undermine the election, they were unaware that mr. clark, jeffrey clark, had been introduced to president trump by a pennsylvania politician, and that clark had told the president he agreed that fraud had affected the election results. basically, he auditioned for the president and let him know that he would be a trigger man for donald trump's attempt to kill off american democracy in its present form. that is not hyperbole. clark met with trump, he schemed with trump, and he drafted the document i talked about. it's this letter. it's still letter that the georgia governor and a drafted for rosen and donahue to sign, officially from the u.s. department of justice. it says in part, the department of justice is investigating various irregularities in the 2020 election for the president of the united stat

tonight the smoking gun document that could have up ended democracy as we know it and the doj official who tried to help trump steal the election.

the doj accused him and said never go near the capital again. he disobeyed. now he is going to jail on monday. are you cool with this, dictating his daughter? is that all right with you? is that the country you want to live in? how about that, adam kinzinger, is this the democracy you fought for? please. so the ringleaders of the riots go free, especially if they were working for the fbi, but the people who offend joe biden's friends, they are in jail. one programming note tonight, our "tucker carlson originals" team has been looking into the events of january 6 very closely, been doing it for months, and we plan to bring you that report. the video we have collected is shocking and informative. that's the next installment of our documentary series coming next month. well, it wasn't long ago that jeff bezos' newspaper was telling us that birds are racist. and all the experts are telling us toddlers can be white supremacists, too! that straight ahead. ♪ ♪ is your family ready for an emergency? you can prepare by mapping out two ways to escape your home, cre