this was osama bin laden's wildest dream hiding in the attic. and yet with bush was a walk war in iraq and obama's war in sierra they succeeded in the impossible creating a literal for three years from 2014 -- 17. tens of thousands in their army leading to iraq war three and total casualties in iraq and sierra have certainly more than half a million. they had done the same things with debate and switch down any yemen or barack obama had a war beginning in 2009 of cia drone war against al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. the real al qaeda terrorist that help coordinate september 11 to bomb the uss cole in 2000. who did the bombing attempting to blow up a trait over detroit on christmas day 2009. and obama was bombing them. but then, i'll skip the politics it's a complicated mess. by the end of 2148 shiite group friendly with the eye ron came out of the north sack to the capitol city. at the time that happened you can all read this in the wall street journal and a great piece on i will monitor from january 2015, our current secretary of defense was

we got osama bin laden. that was our goal, the mission. to sit there and have frank biden or whoever start building stuff as a contractor -- this is where it gets messy. our troops if they are there for 100 years, the taliban will hide. they will cross borders. they will come out and take it again. unless we are going to sit there forever and today, like the british who colonized places -- whether we were trading or moving goods, we would have problems, whether it is the same places we are having problems. we sat there and we have to sit there forever. who wants to live there? do you want to protect that region that has nothing to protect? i feel horrible that the good people that are there, like the ones that protected the lone survivor -- everybody should watch the movie. there are good, but it seems they are outnumbered so great that we would have to sit there forever and lose our blood and our most precious of what we have to give to help the world. they are still shooting us. we are training them to be cops and they turn on us. we can

we never gave up the hunt for osama bin laden, and we got him. that was a decade ago. our mission in afghanistan was never supposed to be nationbuilding. it was never supposed to be creating a unified, centralized marker c. -- democracy. our only interest in afghanistan remains what he has always been, preventing a terrorist attack on the american homeland. i have argued many years that our mission should be narrowly focused on counterterrorism, not counterinsurgency or nationbuilding. that's why i opposed the surge when it was proposed in 2009 when i was vice president. that's why as president, i am adamant we focus on the threats we face today in 2021, not yesterday's threats. today, the terrorist threat has metastasized well beyond afghanistan. al-shabaab in somalia, isis attempting to create a caliphate in syria and iraq and establish affiliates in africa and asia. these threats warrant our attention and resources. we conduct effective counterterrorism missions against terrorist groups in multiple countries, where we don't have a permanent military presence. if nec

we killed osama bin laden. what we allowed to happen, i can't say mission accomplished. the politics of it, the people who wanted to build nations made it into a failure. can you say mission accomplished? we did eliminate the threat of osama bin laden. mission accomplished that we allowed it to become what it is now? no. host: i want to share one of the headlines with you from the washington post this morning. according to the washington post, there are al qaeda members back in afghanistan. that is in the papers this morning as well. we will show you the headline of the washington post. the pentagon gave a rare briefing on a weekend. the pentagon spokesperson john kirby gave the latest on the ground with u.s. efforts to evacuate citizens. this is what he had to say. >> how many of those 17,000 are american citizens? have there been any further outside the wire operations by the military? >> i don't have a breakdown of how many 17,000 are americans. to my knowledge, since we talked yesterday, there haven't been

after a firefight, they killed osama bin laden and took custody of his body. host: then president obama back in may of 2011. we are asking you about the two decades war in afghanistan. what did it mean? sandy and columbus, ohio, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i am calling to say i have listened to a couple of other callers. what i don't understand is how the president, they fled so fast and did not try, to me, to get there people -- their people in some kind of safety. they could have done that. they have more troops and more ammunition. we have been there, several years, training. every time we pull out, they let the taliban take over. i don't know what -- whether the planning for us coming out should be on the united states. i feel for the girls and the people there. but, it seems like to me, but -- that they did not try to get them out of harm's way. it looks like they just ran. they have been equipped, again. that's what i don't understand. thank you for listening to me. host: this is john in clifton park, new york. good morning. caller: tha

we killed osama bin laden. what we allowed to happen, i can't say mission accomplished. the politics of it, the people who wanted to build nations made it into a failure. can you say mission accomplished? we did eliminate the threat of osama bin laden. mission accomplished that we allowed it to become what it is now? no. host: i want to share one of the headlines with you from the washington post this morning. according to the washington post, there are al qaeda members back in afghanistan. that is in the papers this morning as well. we will show you the headline of the washington post. the pentagon gave a rare briefing on a weekend. the pentagon spokesperson john kirby gave the latest on the ground with u.s. efforts to evacuate citizens. this is what he had to say. >> how many of those 17,000 are american citizens? have there been any further outside the wire operations by the military? >> i don't have a breakdown of how many 17,000 are americans. to my knowledge, since we talked yesterday, there haven't been

the taliban offered to turn over osama bin laden if we would stop the bombing. bush and rumsfeld both said no, and then we went to war. just like we did, made up the excuse for going into iraq. there is a price to pay. war should be a last resort. host: you recently did some research. where did you do some research? caller: online. i vaguely remember because i was following all of this after 9/11, but i looked online and saw it in a newspaper article also. don't ask me what newspaper it was. host: maybe time for one more call as we wait for this morning's security council meeting to get underway. u.n. ambassador linda thomas-greenfield is in the room as well as the secretary-general. but have not started yet. we will hear from sandra in new orleans, republican. go ahead. caller: ok. i would like to say to everyone who has called in about war, that america started wars, america, the united states did with the revolutionary war. we took over the native americans's lands. we have done a lot of sins, but it is stupid to think this world or the united states of ameri

bin laden. with full disclosure and pleased to say i worked with peter years ago and particularly excited about today's discussion. peter has been called the world's leading expert on osama bin laden as we approach the 20th anniversary of 911 what is the lasting influence of this man and his new book the rise and fall of osama bin laden peter provides the reevaluation of the man responsible for al qaeda's attacks on the united states which precipitated long worse with al qaeda, its allies. peter discusses bin laden on all the dimensions of one of his life. battlefield commander the terrorist leader and as a fugitive. thanks to the exclusive avail members and associates and documented only recently peter's portrait is why he inspires a new generation of jihadists. today were going to have a conversation with the manner set the on american foreign policy and the u.s. continues to battle today. welcome. >> brian great to be with you. i think you be more sad to say we work together. it's great also

. >>> the last days of osama bin laden. after a decade of searching, how laundry on a clothes line turned out to be the final clue to his whereabouts. the details from a great book written by the first western journalist to interview osama bin laden face-to-face. riders, the lone wolves of the great highway. all they need is a bike and a full tank of gas. their only friend? the open road. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair. eh, still. i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. only 6% of us ret

la manera cÓmo se iba a reaccionar, y luego se capturÓ a osama bin laden. ilia: vamos a ir con claudia uceda con un informe de los informes mÁs importantes en de esto se 20 aÑos de guerra en afganistÁn. claudia: hola, si es. durante estos 20 aÑos hemos visto muchas muertes, bombardeos, acuerdos de paz que realmente no se cumplieron, y discursos de varios presidentes, de barack obama, de george bush, y tambiÉn de trump. ahora esperamos por el discurso de joe biden. detendrÉ un recuento de lo que ha sido estos 20 aÑos. veamos. ♪ [sonido ambiente] todo comenzÓ con los ataques del 11 de septiembre. [sonido ambiente] >> [habla en inglÉs] claudia: osama 1000 laden en afganistÁn ordenÓ al qaeda perpetrar un ataque terrorista jamÁs visto en suelo estadounidense. cuatro vuelos comerciales fueron estrellados contra las torres gemelas, el pentÁgono y pensilvania, causando la muerte de casi 200 personas. en menos de un mes de la coaliciÓn liderada por estados unidos bombardeo las instalaciones de los talibanes y al qaida, grupos terroristas. el ex presi

. >> reporter: this war started when osama bin laden, the guest of the taliban, organized 9/11 attacks can you guarantee that this country will never again be a base for terrorism? >> translator: when osama bin laden became an issue for the americans, he was in afghanistan, although there was no proof he was involved now we have given promises that afghan soil won't be used against anyone >> reporter: you still don't think that osama bin laden carried out 9/11 >> there is no evidence. even after 20 years of war, we have no proof he was involved. >> reporter: so it sounds like even now after all of this you're accepting no responsibility >> translator: there was no justification for this war it was excuse for war. >> reporter: how are you feeling right now after 20 years and the americans are leaving? >> translator: the withdrawal is almost finished these are our happiest moments. >> richard, did this spokesman talk about what the future relationship could look like between the u.s. and the taliban >> reporter: he did. he said he wants to open a new chapter of relations with the united

we got osama bin laden. that was our goal, the mission. to sit there and have frank biden or whoever start building stuff as a contractor -- this is where it gets messy. our troops if they are there for 100 years, the taliban will hide. they will cross borders. they will come out and take it again. unless we are going to sit there forever and today, like the british who colonized places -- whether we were trading or moving goods, we would have problems, whether it is the same places we are having problems. we sat there and we have to sit there forever. who wants to live there? do you want to protect that region that has nothing to protect? i feel horrible that the good people that are there, like the ones that protected the lone survivor -- everybody should watch the movie. there are good, but it seems they are outnumbered so great that we would have to sit there forever and lose our blood and our most precious of what we have to give to help the world. they are still shooting us. we are training them to be cops and they turn on us. we can

whether this could prove to be a breeding ground for the next osama bin laden. and let's go to lucas tomlinson over confusing on who is running the airport. lucas? >> pentagon officials of the u.s. are still in control. let's go across the river where ned price denied that the u.s. government is giving any names to the taliban. names of americans and critical afghan allies. here's ned price. >> the notion that we're providing that with names upon names of individuals who may stay behind in afghanistan or in a way that would expose anyone to additional risks, that is simply false. >> the pentagon corrected reports of two suicide bombers saying there was only one. one bomber approached the gunmen and then blew himself up. the death toll among afghans are close to 130. the pentagon says there's a risk of more attacks. >> we're monitoring these threating very specifically. virtually and in real time. >> our own jennifer griffin spoke to john kirby earlier today. >> how can general mckenzie say with certainty the taliban were not involved in the suicide bomb somethin

and also give osama bin laden over. the u.s. rejected, president bush rejected both. >> this was a central aspect of the war on terror at its inception and foreshadowing of what its implications would be. once we accept the frame that bush offered, war on terror, we were then locked into a struggle not just against al qaeda, the entity culpable for the 9/11 attacks, but a much broader struggle against an enemy that a president could redefine and will and leave in the popular imagination was something along the lines of a civilizational challenge to america for the future, one of which america itself was in the balance. let's look in particular at that moment in kandahar. the united states northern alliance allies had routed the taliban from kabul, the islamic emirate of afghanistan had fallen after about five or six years in power, and they recognized after a last stand they try to put on in kandahar did not go the way they expected that the end was near for them. they offered hamid karzai that as long as mullah mohammed omar co

we never give up the hunt for osama bin laden and we got him. that was a decade ago. our mission in afghanistan was never supposed to be creating a unified democracy. we were only preventing a terrorist attack on american homeland. i have argued for many years that our mission should be narrowly focused on counterterrorism, not counterinsurgency or nationbuilding. that is why i opposed the surge, the one proposed in 2009 when i was vice president. i am adamant that we focus on the threats we face today in 2021, not yesterday's threats. today, the terrorist threat has metastasized well beyond afghanistan. somalia, the arabian peninsula, isis attempting to take root in syria and iraq. these threats warrant our attention and are -- our resources. we conduct counterterrorist missions in mobile countries were we don't have permanent military presence. if necessary, we will do the same in afghanistan. we have developed counterterrorism over the rise in capability that will allow us to keep our eyes firmly fixed on the direct threats to the united states in the region. and a

what they're now saying act osama bin laden's role in the 9/11 attacks. >>> more extreme heat bearing down on much of the country. millions facing feels-like temperatures of 110 degrees as more wild fires erupt in california prompting new evacuations. what to expect today plus the new activity in the tropics with three potential storms forming. >>> a controversial crackdown on people refusing to get vaccinated against covid. delta airlines announcing it will force unvaccinated employees to pay higher insurance premiums. how the ceo is defending the policy. >>> plus, new data about the added protection booster shots can provide. >>> also this morning, a wakeup call about high blood pressure and some easy ways to lower it. >>> stunt gone wrong. the unscripted drama during filming of the new "black panther" movie the star left hospitalized. >>> later, the saying goes until the cows came home but these cows took that literally. >> announcer: from abc news in new york, this is "america this morning." >>> good thursday morning, everyone. we begin with breaking news from afghanistan. an urge

we never gave up the hunt for osama bin laden and we got him. that was a decade ago. our mission in afghanistan was never supposed to have been nationbuilding. it was never supposed to be creating a unified, centralized democracy. our only reason to be in afghanistan was to prevent a terrorist attack on american homeland. i have argued our missions should be focused on counterterrorism, not counterinsurgency or nationbuilding. i oppose the surge proposed in 2000 nine when i was vice president. that is why, as president, i am adamant we focus on the threats we face today in 2021, not yesterday's threats. today, the threat has metastasized beyond afghanistan. al-shabaab in somalia, al qaeda, isis attempting to create a caliphate in syria and iraq. these threats warrant our attention and resources. we conduct counterterrorism mission and terrorist groups, but we do not have permanent military presence. if necessary, we will do the same in afghanistan. we have developed counterterrorism over the horizon capability that will allow us to keep our eyes firmly fixed on the di

we never gave up the hunt for osama bin laden and we got him. that was a decade ago. our mission in afghanistan was never supposed to have been nationbuilding. it was never supposed to be creating a unified, centralized democracy. our only reason to be in afghanistan was to prevent a terrorist attack on american homeland. i have argued for many years that our missions should be narrowly focused on counterterrorism, not counterinsurgency or nationbuilding. that is why i opposed the surge proposed in 2009 when i was vice president. that is why, as president, i am adamant we focus on the threats we face today in 2021, not yesterday's threats. today, the threat has metastasized beyond afghanistan. al-shabaab in somalia, al qaeda, isis attempting to create a caliphate in syria and iraq. these threats warrant our attention and resources. we conduct counterterrorism missions against terrorist groups in multiple countries where we do not have permanent military presence. if necessary, we will do the same in afghanistan. we have developed counterterrorism over the horizon capa

his thoughts on 9/11 and osama bin laden. >> when osama bin laden became a issue for americans he was in afghan san. there was no proof he was involved. now we have promises afghan soil won't be used against anyone. >> you don't think osama bin laden carried out 9/11. >> there is no evidence. >> despite osama bid laden is on video taking credit. >> it's an amazing video, jaw drop i remember. what do you do? what do you say now? what you do is if you believe the taliban knows exactly were the isis k group is located before you leave the airport you hit the target for isis k. you go back on offense. that's one thing he could do when he comes out to speak. what does he say? i have watched coverage all day to day. one think lacking from everyone on the microphone. we haven't heard. when is the empathy, anger, sadness. the american people are pissed off. at the end of 20 years this is what you get. put a voice to it. joe biden was the empathetic leader. he hasn't done that and has a chance now coming up. a week ago you had the week with george s. on abc news. he was asked do you believe th

we never gave up the hunt for osama bin laden and we got him. that was a decade ago. our mission in afghanistan was never supposed to have been nationbuilding. it was never supposed to be creating a unified, centralized democracy. our only reason to be in afghanistan remains today what it has always been, preventing a terrorist attack on american homeland. i have argued for many years that our missions should be narrowly focused on counterterrorism, not counterinsurgency or nationbuilding. that is why i opposed the surge proposed in 2009 when i was vice president. that is why, as president, i am adamant we focus on the threats we face today in 2021, not yesterday's threats. today, the threat has metastasized beyond afghanistan. al-shabaab in somalia, al qaeda, isis attempting to create a caliphate in syria and iraq. these threats warrant our attention and resources. we conduct effective counterterrorism mentions -- missions against terrorist groups in multiple countries where we do not have permanent military presence. if necessary, we will do the same in afghanistan.

yes, indeed, absolutely. >> even if it were osama bin laden? >> absolutely. >> it's a big question. >> will we treat him well or beat him up, why get into that? >> it's a big question to the americans. this is enemy number one for them. they want to know that their friend in pakistan is on the same page and if you caught osama bin laden, you would turn him over. >> the people who need to know, know it. >> we know is that he wound up being found in pakistan. what was the point? look, that was supposed to be our big ally in the region at the time, the president of pakistan. it's that it's never been as simple as we've wanted it to be back here at home. one place, looking for one face. fighting terror means chasing an idea, it means poverty, religion, it means dealing with societies and clans. it's complicated. and taliban, al qaeda, taliban, isis, who knows where next. it's never been as simple as we wanted it to be. start tonight with clear eyes on how we got here, and the reality is this, now what? we were there for one reason, so stop another

we got here because of osama bin laden. eventually we found him and we killed him we will do that with these isis-k people. in terms of getting out, not only the u.s. citizens but all of the afghans who have supported us, the hour is nearing cinderella here. so i think what needs to happen next, shep, is a coherent, thoughtful plan for how we're going to deal in taliban control of afghanistan how are we going to create an underground railroad to get people out of afghanistan, out from refugee camps, outside the borders where we can come and collect. and that's the only way we will fulfill this promise we've got work to do. >> our next guest will have some thoughts on that for sure. it's great to have you thank you so much for your time. >> thanks, shep. pleasure and we're so happy to have you with nbc. >> thank you thank you very much. i want to turn to an army veteran and the co-founder of no one left behind. working with get american allies out of afghanistan you are a regular viewer of this program, you met him over the

. >> reporter: this war started when osama bin laden, the guest of the taliban, organized 9/11 attacks. can you guarantee that this country will never again be a base for terrorism? >> translator: when osama bin laden became an issue for americans, he was in afghanistan although there was no proof he was involved. now we have given promises that afghan soil won't be used against anyone. >> you still don't think that osama bin laden carried out 9/11? >> there is no evidence. even after 20 years of war we have no proof he was involved. >> reporter: it sounds like even now after all of this you're accepting no responsibility? >> translator: there was no justification for this war. it was excuse for war. >> reporter: how are you feeling right now, after 20 years, the americans are leaving? >> the withdrawal is almost finished. these are our happiest moments. >> reporter: after the interview we made our way to the airport. inside the airport the evacuations are moving along, but the mood is somber. these are afghans who don't take the taliban at their word. escaping while they still can. ge

osama bin laden had one hit and it was a bad one. but these other two guys were monsters. >> can you imagine a democratic president coming out and saying bin laden had one hit but these other guys, these people are monsters. that is the person that kevin and the others are dutifully following and do anything for, including getting covid. your thoughts, claire, i'll give you the last word. >> it is, let me say again, the hypocrisy of the people who are piling on joe biden for trying to end this war is stunning. and i've got to say in all the oversight i did in afghanistan as a member of the armed services committee, one theme emerged over and over and over again. it was greed, it was contractors, it was impractical use of money. i mean, joy, we went so far as to build a gas station with natural gas for a country that has very few cars and none run on natural gas. that's the kind of money people were pocketing. the corruption was endemic. we trained people for an army that never really was real. it was all on paper. it was time for thi

osama bin laden is dead and no terrorists can use that terrain. under rumsfeld and cheney it morphed into this staggering nation-building effort. and over the course of 20 years, despite trillions of dollars and innumerable time and treasure poured in, the afghan government was unable to nation-build. instead, they fell into corruption and incorp tense. we had no partner there. >> i can understand how this can feel like a shock to the system, to some americans. if there's one thing that represents america in the minds of many americans, it's the u.s. armed forces. and i think we believe when we put boots on the ground around the world, we're fighting for american values. we're fighting for something. we're a nation that was born from the liberties to the afghan people. what is your sense of what this says to americans about who america is right now. >> i want to be clear about one thing, first and foremost. the united states military served honorably and valiantly for 20 years in afghanistan. they were given a counterterrorism mission. and a count

you proved osama bin laden right and suggest that guide -- that god is on the side of the terrorists, you have just given them a huge propaganda victory. i don't know how that's going to play out. we've got a letter -- we've got a lot of other assets. we've found ways to deal with this problem. i believe that he expects the overall threat. i think that is a cia judgment. certainly my judgment. let's see how it plays out. the idea that we can turn our back on this is a pretty sorry judgment. bassima: inky for that. as you are aware, there has been a lot of debate and disappointment among democratic party leadership themselves. specifically, the chairman of the committee has committed to holding a series of oversight hearings on the decision and the implementation of the withdraw stretching into the biden and trump administrations. in light of the controversy, do you think that somebody will have to resign? there is been a lot of talk about current national security advisor jake sullivan. if not him, what are some other potential ramifications that will happen within the democratic part

osama bin laden wrote a dossier, whatever, saying that he hit the buildings and his main

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. >> congresswoman, the reason we went into afghanistan was to pursue of osama bin laden and al qaeda and the military forces that we sent to afghanistan were successful in routing out al qaeda from that country and ultimately osama bin laden was killed at the same time keeping those forces there seem to prevent the growth of a new al qaeda of some form that i says, for instance, that we saw raging across syria nearby. i'm just curious without any u.s. forces. there is afghanistan once again going to be a breeding ground for terrorism. >> this is that many briefings with the secretary of defense with the white and in let me just come in and salute our troops because they did they did everything our country asked them to do. and president and our policies are such that the counterterrorism measures over the horizon and surrounding are ready or takes place or whatever intelligence that they see. that could be the basis terrorist attack gets the ice is remember, this is 20 years later, the capacity is much the intelligence is much better. and so i'm confident that what the president has

so this is not -- >> osama bin laden was behind 9/11. osama bin laden and al qaeda. he was killed ten years ago. i guess my question is, is the united states supposed to commit u.s. forces to afghanistan for years beyond where we are right now? is that your solution? >> well, look, osama bin laden had no operational control over the al qaeda by the time we finally caught and killed him. does that mean that al qaeda is not there? they certainly are there. we came to afghanistan for one reason, and we stayed in afghanistan for one reason to ensure there was not another 9/11. so i argued that with the relatively small force bubble and commitment of resources compared to what we had already put into it, that's not a bad insurance policy against another attack on the american homeowner. so i think the president made a major strategic mistake by ordering this full withdrawal. granted president trump set it up, but it was president biden who embraced the trump policy and executed it. i worry very much on how this is going to play out in the future. it's not just taliban and

with [end of translation] >> this war started when osama bin laden organized 9/11 attacks. can you guarantee that this country will never again be a base for terrorism? [interpreter] osama bin laden became an issue for americans, he wasn't afghanistan, although there was no proof that he was. involved now we have given promises that afghan soil will not be used against anyone. >> you still don't believe that afghanistan -- that osama bin laden was involved? >> we have no proof that he was involved. >> so it seems now that even after all of this, you are accepting no responsibility. >> [interpreter] there was no justification for this war it was excuse for. wore with [end of translation] >> how are you feeling right now after 20 years and the americans are leaving? >> [interpreter] the withdrawal is almost finished, it was our happiest moment. we [end of translation] >> they all said they want the taliban to open a new chapter of relations with the united states, including exchanging diplomats and opening embassies. richard engel, nbc news, kabul. >> a mesmerizing and tense

nobody could find him for 15 years, far bigger than osama bin laden, far bigger. osama bin laden, bad, and he hit the world trade center. it was a horrible thing. but al baghdadi was the founder of isis. >> trump, who once bragged he had eliminated isis at times referred to isis-k, the group the u.s. is likely behind the kabul attacks, as isis-x. >> there's great danger right now. they have unbelievable weapons. they have people, as i said, that broke away because the taliban wasn't mean enough and vicious enough. and that's the new isis-x where they broke away or isis-k. they'll have an isis-x pretty soon. >> don jr. tweeted a photo of president biden hanging his head and accused the president of weakness. other republican leaders insisted biden should resign or be removed from office using the 25th amendment. marcia blackburn tweeted that biden and other top administration officials should step down. it should be noted back in 2019, she said the american people were ready to end the war. >> the american people are war weary. they want this settled. >> missouri s

we should have got out after they killed osama bin laden. you were there when they killed osama bin laden. you were the chairman. should we have gotten out there? >> i think in retrospect,retrose we should have. clearly we could have got out earlier than we did. as i look back and a lot of people are critical of the president right now, president biden had it right back then. he was focussed on counterterrorism. his advice was along those lines. he certainly said that. i give him credit for that. >> did the mission fail? >> i think complete failure, no. clearly taking out bin laden was a huge impact in terms of al qaeda and what was represented there. i'm not inclined to just lay it on, yes, it was a success or it was a failure. i think we're somewhere in between. there's a lot of finger ppointi. i'm not anxious to do that or participate in that. we need to learn lessons. we need to examine in the military that can-do spirit and can we understand why we too often say yes to a mission when we should say no. nobody wants the saigon image and w

in the beginning, there was osama bin laden. everything begins in afghanistan begins with osama bin laden. you have to understand that this goes back to the gulf war, when the saudis ejected osama bin laden and sent him off to sudan and he spent the next four years there. brooding and watching america operating in the gulf. until the americans were looking at improving relations with the sudanese who were desperate to get out from underneath so many of the sanctions we had imposed on them. so we went to the sudanese and said look. this first step of getting out of the doghouse with america, you need to get rid of lane. of bin laden. he was under the protection of the spiritual leader at that time. but i carried a message to khartoum, to omar bashir who was president and to the cleric who i've known for years and said the bin laden thing, get him out of here. they went to bin laden and said where would you like to go? back to saudi arabia? no, the saudis said not on your life, he's not coming here. the sudanese came us to and sai