rosen. he told the senate judiciary committee about trump's efforts to enlist the doj in sowing doubt over election results. joining us now, the chairman of the judiciary committee, senator dick durbin. >> good to be with you. >> i saw your interview with my friend dana bash. and we covered coup attempts in places like turkey. would you describe this as a coup attempt? >> it's its own version. first the onslaught of lawsuits. didn't work. tried 50 or 60 times. then he went to the department of justice and decided he would manipulate the attorney general into really initiating an investigation into particular states. rosen, i want to say it in a positive reference to him, voluntarily came before our committee. was interviewed for seven hours, and told us a lot of the story of what happened in that period of time. i want to say, even though we were skeptical going in, he stood his ground, and i'm glad he did. and finally rkts january 6th, we know what happened then. he turned a mob loose on th

they'd resign if rosen were fired. a nixon style saturday night massacre all over again. we didn't know how close we came. we really didn't. there are major developments tonight on covid to tell you about. the biden administration working on a plan to mandate vaccinations for nearly every foreign visitor to the u.s. as defense secretary lloyd austin is expected to make vaccines mandatory for active duty troops. the highly contagious delta variant makes up more than 90% of the cases in this country. just look at this time lapse from the cdc. that sea of red is the delta variant spreading over the past month. look at that. with concerns about delta on the rise, former president barack obama has scaled back his plans for a big 60th birthday bash on martha's vineyard this weekend and as delta spreads, misinformation is spreading too and we need to tell you about that, misinformation holding america back. some anti-vaxxers in new jersey got an ear full from governor phil murphy just today. >> these folks back there have los

and rosen stood fast and didn't. so there was a tense period of time there in a moment where the president was going to put his own man in as attorney general. >> now, another senator in that room, richard blumenthal telling the hill he was quote struck by how close the country came to total catastrophe. the senator will join me live this hour to discuss all of that and more. >>> plus, the senate is back in session today, inching closer and closer to a final vote on that $1 trillion infrastructure deal. we will have more on that in just a moment. >>> first, troubling new numbers from emerging place where is the coronavirus pandemic is now getting worse. this is as the u.s. is now averaging more than 100,000 new cases per day. just this morning, the former cdc director predicting that double could actually double next month. >> unfortunately, the delta variant is doubly dangerous. and we anticipated that cases could go up to as high as 200,000 a day by early september. that's why it is so important to double down on o

rosen. should mr. rosen be fired they all agreed to resign en masse. when presented with that ultimatum trump seemed somewhat swayed by the idea firing mr. rosen would trigger not only chaos of the justice department but also congressional investigations and possible recriminations from other republicans and distract attention from his efforts to overturn the election results. and so he backed off and the gun stayed holstered. we were this close to a world where the attorney general of the united states, acting attorney general jeffrey clark publicly released that letter. and the man who came that close to committing that grievous act, jeffrey clark is just out in the world chilling, probably going to nice dinners, probably makes a good income. he landed a job as the chief of litigation and director of strategy at the right-wing new civil liberties alliance. those are all his colleagues right there. they do things like sue universities for mandating vaccines and try to go to court for moratorium on evictions removed. how they feel in the office -- well

rosen should mr. rosen be fired. and they all agreed to resign. when presented with that ultimatum, trump seemed swayed by the idea that firing mr. rosen would trigger not only chaos in the justice department, but also congressional investigations and possibly combinations from other republicans and distract attention from his ideas to overthrow the election results. so he backed off, and the gun state holstered. we were this close to a world where the attorney general of the united states, jeffrey clark, publicly released that letter. and the man who came that close to doing that, to meeting that act, jeffrey, clark is just out in the world, chilling. probably going to nice dinners. he probably makes a good income. he got a new job. he landed the job as litigation and director of strategy at the right wing new civil liberties alliance. those are all his colleagues, they should be proud they work with him. they do things like so universities for mandating vaccines and they try to go to court for the moratorium on evictions. good folks. come to thi

rosen's number two. but donoghue wanted to follow the -- the -- the chain of command here and trump eventually gave the -- gave the acting job to rosen. which shows how really, really close we -- we came there. rosen is someone who sees his allegiance to the constitution, not the office of the president. and -- and, you know, max mentions the chaos in -- in georgia. that story in this book, too. you know, by the -- by the end -- by the beginning of january, lawyers were showing up in georgia saying the white house has sent us. we're with the white house. and that sounded very odd to the people down in georgia who had been there for, you know, several months who are actually from the white house. the first team that pat cipollone had sent with the campaign. they -- now, you know, mitchell and rudy giuliani's team was coming in, at the end, you know, just adding to, you know, the pandemonium down there. >> hmm. should the -- the doj now be investigating the former president and what he tried to do, how he

with rosen. who is in charge of this? as you said, there is a january 6 investigation, an i.g. investigation. but to us lay people with no legal training it feels like laws were broken, crimes were committed that imperilled democracy in this country and we need to see somebody taking action that seems consequential and apolitical. who is the person to do this? who is the body to lead this? is it the department of justice? as rachel said the problem with the department of justice, the attorney general, the poor guy goes to work every day at a crime scene. >> it is the department of justice. there is accountability in all sorts of different ways. i would argue there will be accountability potentially at the ballot box in 2022, which is going to be the first election since january 6th. and there is accountability that can occur in congress. they can pass laws to correct some of these issues that -- this impropriety that donald trump used to abuse his power. and there in fact is a law in the house dr

but what do we know about rosen's role here. when it comes to trump's efforts to undermine the election, do we know that rosen was a stalwart for saying, look, there was no fraud, not enough to declare the election legitimate or do we know about any involvement behind the scenes in which he might have been also cooperating in this plot? >> i think there is a lot that still needs to come out. from what we heard so far from the people who were in the room yesterday interviewing rosen, again, democrats like dick durbin and richard blumenthal, they see them and they have been describing his efforts as really being a stalwart and standing up to the former president, so much so that he potentially could have been fired. he wasn't. but that is a lot of what we're hearing happen leaked out of the seven plus hours of testimony yesterday. and dick durbin saying he was grateful to have someone like jeffrey rosen there when this is happening. and just all of this testimony reminds me, when the former president is still in office, and going

rosen appeared voluntarily, which says a lot, and cooperated with us. the justice department had set it up for us, and said we're waiving any privilege. he can speak to any issue, we're not holding back. i thought he was very open. and there's an awful lot there. you can imagine, seven hours of testimony. >> barbara, you have senator blumenthal saying, listen, rosen revealed things that were not known before this investigation. where does this lead the investigation? >> i think it's a great illustration of how so often we assume that what is in the public domain is the whole store. so on which in investigations there are facts that are not publicly known. i also they that one significant reason jeffrey rosen was able to tell the facts is because the justice department has waived any executive privilege. donald trump's lawyer sent a letter saying they wanted to step in and have executive privilege. i think there are a number of places this could lead. i think it also could be shared with criminal prosecutors for possible criminal violations. the one that

rosen. who is in charge of this and who does this? there's a january 6th investigation an ig investigation. it feels like laws were broken and crimes committed that imperiled democracy in this country and we need to see somebody taking action that seems consequential and a political. who is the person to do it this? i was the body to lead this? visit the department of justice? as rachel said, the problem with the attorney general is the poor man goes to work every day in a crime scene. >> it is the department of justice there is accountability in all different ways i would argue there would be accountability potentially for the ballot talks in 2022 which is gonna be the first election since january six. there is accountability that can pass laws to correct some of these issues and this impropriety that donald trump used to abuse his power and or is in fact a law in the house drafted or number of laws drafted by adam schiff to correct this. the trick here, this is where our urge for informati

december 27ing, trump holds a call with the then acting tomorrow jeffrey rosen, rosen's deputy, richard donahue is in the call. he's taking notes. so he takes notes according to done a hue, here's what trump said and i quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. december 28th. jeffrey clark, a trump loyalist who works at the justice department circulates a letter. this calls on georgia to convene a special legislative session to look into quote irreconciling laters in the 2020 election. the letter falsely claims that the doj identified quote significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states, including the state of georgia. end quote. that is a complete lie. the department of justice had not identified that. it's a lie. barr had already said it was a lie. this guy clark goes out, send out this lie. well, doj officials rejected his request to send that specific letter. trump doesn't stop. in the days that follow. he continues to go out there. he is growing more desperate at this point. december

rosen was not willing to do that and eventually rosen and other officials talked the president out of firing rosen, keeping him on the job, but it's an unreal -- just an extraordinary episode to happen inside the white house. again, just a couple of days before the attack on the u.s. capitol, which was carried out by people who were believing the president's lies about the election. >> right. and if they had found some henchman at the department of justice to go along with that, that would -- >> course of history would have been changed. >> it's incredible. thank you. just to ambler both the factual absurdity but also the danger of that letter which was drafted but never sent to georgia. this draft included the following passage, quoting now. very longing various irregular disin the to 20 election for president of the united states. at the time of writing of it general barr had already publicly stated nearly a month earlier that the department had not and i'm quoting here seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election. the senior department of justi

he was chief of staff for then acting attorney general jeffrey rosen. he wrote his resignation letter on january 3rd. he expected that rosen would be fired by donald trump for refusing the former president's, quote, direct instructions to use the doj to back up false claims of election fraud. it was on that same day, the first sunday in january where trump summoned the acting attorney general rosen and jeffrey clark to the white house to have this apprentice-style showdown. each of them essentially making their case. and at that same time, we've learned that several doj officials did think that rosen would be fired and that clark would replace him since, of course, clark stood behind trump's election fraud claims, so much so that about half a dozen doj officials had their resignations plotted out. but in the end, wolf, of course, trump did not fire rosen even though clark had made very clear that he was really the only one at doj who fully backed trump and his election fraud claims. >> on top of all of this abc news has now published email showing how t

look, rosen knew he had all the -- when he was writing notes. rosen knew how how wrong this was. he was ready to stand up for our democracy, and the integrity of the department of justice. he's saying this through. essentially, he was trying to subvert elections and set up a coup of his own from the white house by proxy of the doj since the 2020 election started. now is the time for accountability, making sure anybody who was on staff at doj ready and willing to help him, also held accountability. this could be referred to federal prosecutors, but we'll have to way to see what the office of the inspector general recommends. >> >> i want to move on to infrastructure while you have you ladies. when it look as if the infrastructure bill is going to get across the finish line in the senate, right? then comes the reconciliation bill. folks aren't so sure that will have as easy a time. what do you expect there? >> well, i don't think it will have an easy time, as you said. i think there's a lot of resistance, you know. not with the moderates, but there are a lot of strongholds that do

last week we learned that trump pressured its acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen, and rosen's deputy, to simply declare with no evidence that the entire 2020 election was, quote, corrupt. thankfully they refused, even though trump had threatened their jobs. now politico is reporting that rosen's deputy and another doj official were prepared to resign effective immediately if trump had in fact fired rosen as was feared. most stunning, however, is that the resignation letter that they prepared accuses trump of trying to, quote, utilize the department of justice's law enforcement powers for improper ends. but wait, there's more. another damning story reveals that acting attorney general rosen also faced pressure from inside the department of justice. abc news reports that in late december trump loyalist jeffrey clark, who then served as the acting head of the doj's civil division, pushed rosen to intervene in the certification of georgia's electoral votes. clark drafted a letter for rosen and his deputy that urged georgia officials to, quote, investigate and perhaps overturn president j

he was the person if rosen wouldn't do trump's bidding and rosen didn't. there was a time the president was going to put his own man in as attorney general. >> reporter: so much scrutiny of those days and weeks that trump was still in office but had lost the presidency. it's a reminder that he's no longer here, we talk about the shadow that looms large over the republican party. the power he has over it. there's a lot of investigating still being done trying to put new pieces of the puzzling together, new information that is continuous oi coming out from some of those people in things like the department of justice during that time. clearly, a lot of new information still to be shared as the senators and lawmakers continue looking into the weeks on what the former president was doing. here on the hill, some milling about from lawmakers because they are in the midst of trying to pass that bipartisan infrastructure bill. definitely not going along as quickly as some would like but at the same time, we are still expecting this to go at there point through the

rosen held the line there. >> yes. one last quick question. will we ever see, do you think, criminal charges against donald trump and his top aides? and if not, aren't we saying to americans, to the world, that yes, somebody is beyond the law in america? and also aren't we just risking another coup attempt in the future? >> i don't know the answer to your question. i certainly know that we have many folks looking at criminal charges. it sure seems as though charges should be brought. in many cases and in many levels. what this all opponents out is something else that happened this week and i want to compare and contrast value system between democrats, who in the face of mr. cuomo's difficulties, troubles, and behaviors came forward after they saw the independent a.g. report and said he must resign. he does not represent the values of a public servant. he created a toxic work environment. he sexually harassed members of his staff. democrats came out, including the very president of the united states and said you've got to resign. what have repu

and jeffrey rosen. both went up to the white house, where the president essentially had these men vie for the job of attorney general. the president was looking for someone who was going to do his bidding. rosen was not willing to do that and, eventually, rosen and other officials talked the president out of firing rosen keeping him on the job. but i mean, it's -- it's an un -- just an extraordinary episode to happen inside the white house. again, just a couple days before the attack on the u.s. capitol, which was carried out by people who were believing the president's lies about the election. >> right. and if they had found some henchmen at the department of justice to go along with that, i mean, that would -- >> course of history, right? the course of history would have been changed. >>. incredible. evan perez, thank you. just to amplify both the factual absurdity but also the real danger of that letter we mentioned a moment ago, which was drafted but never sent to georgia. according to abc news, thi

rosen testified on saturday, for nearly seven hours. both of those rounds of testimony were behind closed doors. senator richard blumenthal was one of a handful of senators there for all of the testimony. he came out and called it quote, graphic, dramatic, and chilling. he also said, quote, as a former u.s. attorney and state attorney general for 20 years, there is a real potential for criminal charges here. they should be seriously considered. i go away for two weeks, and all heck breaks loose. next time i take a vacation, i insist that no attempted coup to overthrow the u.s. government be reviewed during the time that i am away, just until i'm back. the rich donoghue and jeffrey rosen testimony happened in a rush on friday and saturday. we are awaiting the transcript of that testimony, which we believe will ultimately be released to the public. u.s. attorney bj pak, whose mysterious resignation in january, has finally been at least partially explained, his testimony is due in the next few days. fascinated to know about that too. but t

and rosen said, i confirmed again today that i am not prepared to sign such a letter. clark ended up not getting the job, rosen remained on the job until president biden was inaugurated on january 20th. but, wolf, it really just goes to show you the efforts beyond what we know the president was doing and his lawyers were doing, some of these extraordinary crazy claims that they were making inside the justice department. these officials, who were basically standing tall, were trying to prevent chaiyasombat -- chaos from ensuing. >> i'm glad they did. evan perez with excellent, excellent reporting. david axelrod is with us, cnn legal and national security analyst. carrie cordero is with us also. what do you think about laying this groundwork for a coup? >> to the extent there is anyone out there who doesn't think former president trump was actually trying to undermine and overturn the election, this is the latest piece of evidence demonstrating that, in fact, that is what he was doing. so in this case, there now is more information in terms of these memos and other commu

the attorney general, jeff rosen at the time. deputy attorney general, richard donoghue at the time. and the guy who wrote it, jeff clark, the head of the civil division, at the time. had rosen and donoghue agreed with clark that they should sign this and send it, think about what that would have meant. there, of course, would have been a national clamor that the u.s. justice department had declared the election to be corrupted, potentially fatally so. the georgia republican legislature, if trump was right -- if -- if trump was right that they were onboard with this, they're on our side. and they -- if he was right, they would have tried to call themselves into special session to -- to, what, try to recall the state's biden electors from the electoral college. instead, consider whether the other slate, meaning the trump slate, should have been sent, instead. so, jeff clark sent over this draft letter, dated december 28th. he also sent over an e-mail, accompanying the letter, to the attorney general and the deputy attorney general

rosen when it's all over. when he was initially poappoint, i didn't think that was the case i was wrong. >> when you were listening to that testimony yesterday, what was the most shocking to you? >> just how directly personally involved the president was, the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen. it was real. very real. and it was very specific. this president is not subtle when he wants something, the former president is not subtle when he wants something. it's a good thing for america we had a person like rosen in that position, who withstood the pressure. >> sounds like this say man in donald trump who actually knew about the levers of power that he had to potentially try to use to keep the election results from happening. >> yes. and i also say that there were forces within the white house who were also pushing back against the president's wild views. but having said that, it was a very tense period in history. we're going to get to the bottom of it. voluntary cooperation of people like jeffrey rose n

jeffrey rosen testified. sources are telling us that they focussed in on their interactions with the former president trump. but, wolf, lawmakers of course are zeroed in on efforts by another top justice department official at the time, jeffrey clark, and his efforts to promote those false claims of election fraud. members of congress are learning more about just how close the country came to crisis in the waning days of the trump administration. >> what was going on in the department of justice was frightening. >> revelations revealed after hours of system from the two men that led the justice department at the time, jeffrey rosen and his deputy richard donahue. >> the country came very close to a coup. >> the senator was one of several republican and democratic senators who sat in on closed door interviews with rosen and donahue over the weekend. under questioning from senate staff, rosen revealed how the former president repeatedly pressured him to back false claims of election fraud. >> he was asking him

rosen of course wouldn't back up trump's claims of election fraud while clark would. before that meeting, he wrote in this letter that he never sent, he said this, this evening after acting attorney general jeff rosen over the course of the last week repeatedly refused the instructions to utilize the department of justice's law enforcement powers for improper ends, the president removed jeff from the department. now, of course, that firing never happened and never sent the letter but we know, erin, at least a half dozen other doj officials had similar plans to resign if rosen wasn't fired. so this is all coming out as investigators in the house, lawmakers are looking into all of these efforts from trump and now we know at least one doj official to try to overturn the election. erin? >> pretty incredible. and it's incredible to do aparen d -- "apprentice" style showdown. it's pretty statebrett stunning levels. let's go straight to former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york and john avalon, anchor and cnn senior political analyst. thanks so muc

jeffrey rosen and rosen's top deputy told the senate judiciary committee that jeffrey clark side stepped the chain of command multiple times to push trump's election fraud lies. dick durbin told cnn that rosen was facing pressure from the top. wa watch. >> it is really important that we ask these questions. to think that bill barr left, resigned after he announced he didn't see irregularities in the election and his replacement was under extraordinary pressure, the president of the united states, even to the point that they were talking about replacing him. that pressure was on. >> cnn's senior legal affairs correspondent, paula reed is with me now. what else do we know about what rosen and his deputy told the senate judiciary committee? >> both rosen and donoghue told the committee they were not sure whether clark was acting at president trump's behest or carrying out a plot that he orchestrated himself. both men testified that when they interacted with trump he never pressured them to do anything illegal and he did seem to understand that the justice department couldn't do anything to

the rich donahue and jeffrey rosen testimony happen in a rush on friday and saturday. we are waiting the transcript of that testimony, that we believe will ultimately released to the public. the u.s. attorney p.j. packers mysteriously resignation has finally been partially explain. his testimony is due in the next few days. fascinated to know about that too. but the story is, is finally spilling out. senator richard blumenthal joins us next. blumenthal joins us next. joins us next. ♪ when i was young ♪ no-no-no-no-no please please no. ♪ i never needed anyone. ♪ front desk. yes, hello... i'm so... please hold. ♪ those days are done. ♪ i got you. ♪ all by yourself. ♪ go with us and find millions of flexible options. all in our app. expedia. it matters who you travel with. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple loves camping adventures and their suv is always there with them. so when their windshield got a chip, they wanted it fixed fast. they drove to safelite autoglass for a guaranteed, same-day, in-shop repair. we repaired the

rosen did not come forward sooner. but i certainly think him for doing two things, coming forward now and holding the line when the president of the united states urged him and his deputy to simply call it corrupt and leave the rest to me and my republican congressman friends. mr. rosen held the line. there >> yes. one last quick question, will we ever see, do you think, criminal charges against donald trump and his top aides, and if not, are we not saying to americans, to the world, that yes, somebody is beyond the law in america and can risk it coup temps in the future? >> i don't know the answer to your question. i certainly know that we have many folks looking at criminal charges and it sure seems as though charges should be brought in many cases and at many levels. but what this all points out is something else that happened this week. and i want to compare this -- value system between democrats who, in the face of mr. cuomo's difficulties, troubles, and behaviors came forward after the solved the independent a.g.

jeffrey rosen and top d.o.j. officials and told them to, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and republican congressmen. leave the rest to me. according to notes taken by richard donahue, the principle associate deputy attorney general who was also in on that meeting. now, the very next day, december 28th we learn trump loyalist and former head of the d.o.j. civil rights division jeffrey clark was drafting letters that would have laid out a road map for republicans in georgia and five other states to flip the election outcome. ten days later a violent group of the expresident's supporters attacked the capitol in a desperate attempt to prevent congress from certifying the election results. joining me now, katie benner of the "new york times," he's an msnbc contributor. katie, you have literally been piecing all this together because you have been reporting on the justice department's pursuit of the january 6th perpetra perpetrators. now you are seeing the other side of the picture wha

the fact that jeffrey rosen said that was not the case. and that top officials at the department believed the election was correct. the election was valid because they had actually done their own investigative work looking to allegations of fraud that former president trump had made and asked them to look into. so clark was the rare figure who thought there was a way for trump to win the election. and unbeknownst to his colleagues he was in communications directly with president trump, which is a big no-no, saying to him, we can find a way to help you win. >> i want to know how close they were to finding that way because, obviously, we all saw what happened on january 6th. but help us understand this timeline of what they were doing. how close were they to any sort of breakthrough here? it's crazy. >> i think that people inside the department, including former officials like jeff rosen would say legally, they were nowhere near close to overturning the election because the election was valid. the results were valid and there was not any leg

jeffrey rosen and rosen's number two, richard donahue, passing those interviews instead to the january 6th committee. rosen and donohue are of particular interest right now because of two developments. first the revelation the ws president called the acting a.g. almost daily. and, second, the proof that backs up those revelations, notes, contemporaneous notes taken by rosen's number two, richard donahue, showing trump told rosen, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and our congressmen.ren. now that trump is no longer president and not protected against the justice department's rule against indicting a sitting president might a criminal investigation against the ex-president come next? in an op-ed today in "the washington post" two former u.s. attorneys and constitutional lae professor argue it should be. they write this. the time has come for the justice department to begin if it hasn't already a criminal investigation into the former president's dangerous course of conduct. if we're to maintain our democracy and respect for the rule of law, efforts to ove

it was january 3rd, president trump had rosen coming over to the white house. and everyone thought that rosen was going to get fired simply because the justice department was refusing to say that there was fraud in the georgia election or elections in all the investigations into the election. the letter, which was written but never sent, and i'll read you just a part of it, says that over the course of the last week, jeffrey rosen had repeatedly refused the president's direct instructions to utilize the department of justice law enforcement powers for improper ends. and, again, the anticipation was that rosen was going to be fired. now, just to set the table here. january 3rd is the day, it's a sunday, president trump had rosen and another official jeffrey clark come over to the white house where he had some kind of like something straight out of a reality tv show, something like "the apprentice" where these two men essentially vied for the job, and the anticipation was that rosen was fired that a number of other officials were going to resign in protest of thi

rosen says he shut trump down. then on january 3rd, trump called georgia's secretary of state telling him quote, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which of course is the exact number of votes trump would need to have overturned georgia's results. imagine that. he actually called and asked him to do that and on that call, trump referred to a quote never trumper u.s. attorney who is now believed to be b.j. pac, the u.s. attorney for the northern district of georgia. the day after that call, that u.s. attorney b.j. pac abruptly resigned after pressure from the trump white house. tomorrow, the senate judiciary committee will interview b.j. pac behind closed doors following the recent interviews with rosen and former deputy attorney general richard donohue. joining me is former acting u.s. solicitor general. this plot has thickened so much, neal, it has gone from being the sort of happen hazard attempt that there are people who are not willing to call it a coup attempt into something that very much was a coup attempt. i

jeffrey rosen, and rosen nfs number two, richard donohue, passing those interviews instead to the january 6th committee. rosen and donohue are of particular interest right now because of two developments. first the revelation the president called the acting a.g. almost daily. and second the proof that backs up those revelations, notes, contemporaneous notes taken by rosen's number two, richard donohue, showing trump told rosen, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and our congressmen. now that trump is no longer president and not protected against the justice department's rule against indicting a sitting president might a criminal investigation against the ex-president come next? in an op-ed today in "the washington post" two former u.s. attorneys and constunesal law professor argue it should be. they write this. the time has come for the justice department to begin if it hasn't already a criminal investigation into the former president's dangerous course of conduct. if we're to maintain our democracy and respect for the rule of law, efforts to overturn a fair

putting on jeffrey rosen, it was real, very real. it was very specific. this president's not subtle when he wants something, former president. i think it's a good thing for america that we had a person like rosen in that position who w withstood the pressure? >> dana bash joins me now. really incredible to hear that from senator durbin, just the fact that the acting attorney general was standing in way of what appeared to be an attempted coup. where might we be if he had gone along with former president trump's request? >> maybe the answer is another thing that senator durbin told me which is what the former president was trying to do was find whomever he could in the justice department who agreed with him, which is why he ended up with somebody who does environmental law and not election law and trying to subvert the actions of these states that were really critical to joe biden winning and him losing, which is what happened. what the judiciary chairman said -- this is seven hours of testimony that jeffrey rosen gave yesterday. the

in came jeffrey rosen. who is jeffrey rosen? we knew his position beforehand, but to be at the top of the heap is an important thing at that moment in history. well, rosen buzz challenged by the president and statements before our interviewers made it clear, repeatedly, and, of course, the ultimate threat, if you don't do this as i wish, you'll be gone. >> and i understand your -- this week your committee is set to interview the trump administration former u.s. attorney for the northern district of georgia who resigned in january. it happened days after a phone call was made public in which then the president was heard pressuring the georgia secretary of state to find votes to overturn the election. what do you hope to learn from that interview? >> i don't know for sure. i'm anxious to hear it. i want to say this, all those appearing before us, donahue and rosen, all of them have done this voluntarily. we have attorneys representing the republicans on the committee and attorneys representing us democrats on the committee taking

it amounted to about seven hours for rosen, six hours for donahue. we know that rosen sat with the doj inspector general this weekend, too. our sources are telling our team that rosen and donahue focused on their interactions with trump but also jeffrey clark. in particular, detailing how clark subverted the chain of command at doj at least five times to push these false claims of fraud untron trump's behalf. clark insisted that chinese intelligence used special kinds of thermometers to change results in machines tallying votes, something that was false. and when the director of national intelligence at the time rebutted those claims in a briefing, clark wouldn't believe him. so we learned that. there were also new revelations in this testimony over the weekend about trump and how much he actually pressured the acting a.g., jeff rosen, to back up his false claims of fraud. take a listen. >> how directly personally involved the president was. the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen. it was real. very real. it was very specific. this president is

rosen, whatever his politics is trying to do the rig thing. to let people know what happened and let them know soon and early. >> chuck rose enburg, always a pleasure. thanked, chuck. >> you bet. >> and as the u.s. troop withdrawal continues in afghanistan, the situation on the ground there is getting more dangerous. the taliban capturing five major territories since friday alone. why can't security forces hold the line? you're watching "ayman mohyeldin reports." ne you're watching "ayman mohyeldin reports. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein. millions of vulnerable americans struggle to get reliable transportation to their medical appointments. that's why i started medhaul. citi launched the impact fund to invest in both women and entrepreneurs of color like me, so i can realize my vision and give everything i've got to my company, and my community. i got you. for the love of peopl

this is an email to rosen and donoghue on december 28th. and he explains the georgia letter we reported last night. says attached is a draft letter concerning the broader topic of election irregularities of any kind. the concept is to send it to the governor, speaker and president pro temp of each relevant state to indicate that in light of time urgency and sworn evidence of election irregulariies presented to courts the legislators should assemble and make a decision about elector appointment in light of their deliberations. that's the jeffrey clark plot, it appears. >> chris, that is the smoking gun. it's unnerving how close trump came to using the full weight of the justice department to overturn the election result. what clark was saying to the georgia governor and legislature is not just you have a green light, but you should call a special session and say that the election was corrupt and overturn the result. now here's the shocking part. he says this is a concept that we can use in every other battleground state. it's like a high sch

>> in the days before the attack you saw former acting attorney general jeff rosen realize one of his former employees, jeff clark, had been secretly speaking with president trump about whether to send a letter to officials in georgia saying they should rethink the results there. jeffrey rosen understood his own job was in jeopardy as the president is thinking about replacing him with jeff clark. he requests a meeting in early january saying, we need to talk about this, he, jeff clark, white house lawyers and department of justice officials as they argue back and forth about the merits of whether the justice department should intervene in georgia. rosen says over and over again, we have not found evidence to support these georgia claims, we're not finding this and we're not going to do it. other officials chime in and say, and, if you replace jeff rosen, we will resign en masse and any attention that would have once gone to your claims in georgia will be completely subsumed by the chaos that happens if we all resign. >> wow. we're also getting to georgia in a second, but you also writ

. >> the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen, it was real, very real. >>> and a final senate vote on the infrastructure bill is ahead. will it pass? this is the sound of an asthma attack... that doesn't happen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't a

but what we did learn over the weekend after both of those interviews with donahue and rosen is that the senate judiciary committee chairman spoke to dana bash. he didn't provide details about new information that was shared, but he did have a key takeaway. here's what he told dana. >> just how directly personally involved the president was, the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen. it was real. very real. and it was very specific. this president is not subtle when he wants something, the former president. he's not subtle when he wants something. and i think it's a good thing for america that we had a person like rosen in that position who withstood the pressure. >> reporter: he says the committee wants to talk to jeff clark in the coming weeks. my sources told me over the weekend that he has been in talks with capitol hill about a potential interview. back to you. >> thanks for that report. >>> joining me now is a professor of government at the university of essex. thank you for talking with us. >> thanks for having me. >> so not to cover, but first, the senatery reconvenes at n

that was jeff rosen. and what rosen specifically was talking about was a subordinate of both of these men. a man named jeffrey clark who was sort of at the number three level at the justice department. an environmental lawyer who was trying to get the justice department to substantiate these election fraud claims as well. trying to get the justice department to take steps publicly to support what trump wanted. now those five episodes we know a little bit of the details of those, but we don't actually know any new information that may have been presented from jeff rosen or richard donahue to the committee. that was something that dick durbin, the senate judiciary chairman, declined to expand on this morning, but this is what he did say to dana on cnn. >> just how directly personally involved the president was. the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen, it was real. very real. and it was very specific. this president's not subtle. the former president. he's not subtle when he wants something. it's a good

this is a unable to rosen and donahue on december 28th. and he explains the georgia letter we reported last night, says, attached is a draft letter concerning the broader topic of election irregularities of any kind. the concept is descended to the governor speaker, and president pro tem of each relevant state to indicate that in light of time urgency and sworn evidence of election regularity's presented a course in the legislative committees the legislators thereof should each the symbol and make a decision about elector appointment in light of their deliberations. that's the jeffrey clark plot, it appears. with >> chris, that is the smoking gun. it's unnerving how close trump came to using the full weight of the justice department to overturn the election result. but clark was saying to the georgia governor and legislature's, not just you have a greenlight, but you should call a special session and say that the election was corrupt and overturn the result. now, here is the shocking part. he says, this is a concept that we can use in ever

the pressure. >> you hear him sort of praising rosen for being able to stand to this pressure. we also know that the president was also eyeing jeffrey clark to potentially replace the acting attorney general if rosen wasn't will along to do the former president's bidding. eventually this committee will issue a report and we will likely learn more about the kind of pressure these officials face. >> i think we're only just beginning to get the real inside story. very, very disturbing. paula, stick around. i want to bring you into the conversation. the former fbi deputy director, senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe is also joining us. he's the author of the book. thank you very much for coming in. if you were questioning these former justice department officials and you served as the acting fbi director during the trump administration, what would you be anxious to learn? >> well, not only, wolf, did i serve in the fbi during under president trump, but i experienced some of his direct pressure myself. so having had that experience, i would be asking these former justice de

trump pressured rosen for his help in efforts to falsely undermine the 2020 election results. your reaction to his testimony about clark working with trump to subvert the 2020 election results? >> well this should be shocking to all that are paying attention to what is unraveling, alicia. now, more and more testimony that is coming forward showing how president trump firsthand was pushing, putting pressure, shaking down department of justice taf members to carry out his big lie which is that he won the election. nobody believes this. and so i think it is imperative to get to the bottom of this and i certainly hope that my colleagues, that we could all come together on a bipartisan basis and make sure that president trump understands that even he has to follow the law. and if he breaks the law, he's going to feel the full weight and pressure come down on him. >> i want to pivot to covid for a second because you've said that hispanic communities that receive vaccine information in spanish have seen increased vaccination rates. your sense of what more needs to be done to reach hi

but it matters are not what jeffrey rosen says in front of a microphone. and i think the same holds true for richard donahue. and a handful of other senior justice department officials who wrestled with this in realtime. so i understand barbs argument here, she's a smart lawyer, but i do think there is a lot more to the picture that needs to be understood before you can make any determination about criminal activity here. >> barbara, i'm sure it's your understanding as well that as we start to see these pieces come into public view, it makes your argument stronger. >> yes of course, and i agree with devlin, i don't think that they're ready to indict today. but there isn't enough already in the public domain to service what's known as predication. that is, non frivolous facts. that there was a crime that occurred here. so i think that would merit those additional investigative steps. and when prosecutors investigate, they can get text messages, they can get emails, they can put people into the grand jury and asked them what happened. i think one of the most

rosen when it's all over. when he was initially appointed i didn't think that was case and i was wrong. >> as we learn more about trump's attempt to hold on to power, remember what he and the republican party call themselves, the party of "law & order," and it's not what republicans want these days. instead they pine for a strongman who with kaeld power of the state against the maga base's political foes and who would deploy the police to coddle. joining me now to discuss investigative journalist, and a former u.s. attorney who is also an msnbc legal analyst. what does this tell us about how close we were the a coup here in america? >> well, it's interesting, first, that he got in the door as quickly as he did. there are efforts from telling him to tell his story where trump's lawyers are trying to assert executive privilege. he clearly is concerned that there's perhaps crimes occurring here or at least some very significant efforts to commit fraud in the election. based on what we already know, the notes abou

and we know that rosen and his deputy richard donoghue, they refused to sign onto those letters. but now, jeffrey clark has become the focal point for congressional investigators. sources told us, that when rosen testified, he talked about five episodes work clark went out of the chain of command of doj to push these fraud claims. and trump and clark were indirect communication. that something totally out of the norm for officials other than the attorney general at doj. and we also know that in this testimony this weekend, rosen and donoghue told lynn lawmakers that trump, he never ordered them to do anything illegal and trump eventually accepted their advice. that doj could claim fraud when they have zero evidence of it but still, they remain a lot of questions about who else at the white house might have been part of this push to get doj involved in pushing these false election fraud claims, and potentially what other schemes might have been in the works. so erica, this might be the tip of the iceberg, what we've already seen come out, there needs to be a lot more testimony tha

and i think it's a good thing for america that we had a person like rosen in that position. had he said the committee wants to talk with jeff clark in the coming weeks. and my sources told me over the weekend that he has been in talks with capitol hill about a potential interview. back to you. >> great. thank you so much for that. >>> this has been the string that all the committees have been trying to go for is what happened between former president trump and going on within the justice department. none of these investigations, so far, has been able to bring a formal abnalysis of that but ar getting little bits of it. we'll bring in former federal prosecutor. andrew, like i've said, we've seen little bits and pieces of what was going on within the justice department. information dripping out from the interviews. senator durbin told what he herd in the interview was frightening. it was a seven hour testimony. so just bring us up to speed. what is your thought when you hear that the activities in the justice department is described as frightening in the very crucial days lead

was, the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen, it was real, very real. and it was very specific. this president is not subtle when he wants something. >> joining us now cnn political analyst david gregory and cnn political commentator amanda carpenter. amanda, you know, i think maybe the number one take away from this is jeffrey rosen is talking. the former acting attorney general who was running the justice department in the days before the insurrection, isn't just talking but wanting to talk. wanting to give information at this point. what's the significance about what we're hearing? >> i mean, i think it just shows how dedicated donald trump was to this effort. if you don't mind me looking back a little bit, i'm a little frustrated because this would have been very relevant information during the second impeachment trial. clearly you have people who were willing to talk and maybe they just needed the cover of the doj ruling saying they would be free to do so, but the second impeachment was really -- this is the same as the first. it's donald trump abu