maybe not sally hemmings. but we don't have portraits of martha or sally. >> i school social studies teacher from a hamilton mass my tenth grade colleague and i have assigned the summer reading assignment for the honor student to make the decision we've had conversations with students who were involved with the local human rights committee a few students expressed to us race or gender or identity could only be assigned from authors as part of the community they write about. i can respect her they are coming from but i disagree with their argument in part. want to explore that argument further and wonder your thoughts. there is a a lot there. >> the idea is that the students only want books who are writing about a community from which they come from they don't want books from white people about black people. these are young people. i don't agree with that especially books about slavery. racially -based slavery in the united states has been by white authors. but i understand they are desire to probe personal to

we don't know the name of sally hemmings. when dave missed in the story is a visual image depiction of sally hemmings. using from time to time the descriptions that she was mighty white and she had long straight hair down her head. she was three quarters european" of african. but as the many sketches i don't see many images but no see many many pictures which depict sally hemmings. can doctor annette gordon-reed say something about that for me please predispute if we don't have pictures of her. i mean, we have are people have sort of imagined ideas of what she looks like an they do those reproductions r of her. but we don't have any pictures we don't have images of jefferson's wife. there might be a couple of silhouettes of hers but strangelyy enough, the fortress were destroyed and fathers home was destroyed by fire. it's interesting that she apparently was as a married woman rated people that class would've done. so this is sort of an odd thing, his two sisters completely different places in the hierarchy the neither of the

she talks about sally hemming. she does it inng a way that is brilliant and completely age-appropriate. i don't see why you couldn't talk about or raise the question about the texas republic and younger grades. i don't think there is a problem. not reading the constitution but there are ways to talk about anything. i have seen all really good books for young people, kids that i am talking about now certainly to elementary school , middle school natalie is on a wonderful biography of thomas jefferson that comes up all of thes stuff. it's an age-appropriate way. i think there is a way to do it. coming down there talking about all this, there are plenty of people on that hamatter. i do know people gotten very, very aggressive about this. this is the citizens of texas to stand up, stand up against censorship. stand up against the idea you can't talk about the truth. i am of a mind kids are more interesting than we think they are. i've seen so many examples of writing about the issues about race in children's books. i t

maybe not sally hemmings. i mean, the first images of the hemmings family are of her grandchildren that we have, but we don't have portraits of martha or of sally. >> this is a text from ann page, a high school social studies teacher at hamilton high school in mass. >> and my colleague and i have assigned juneteenth for honors students. in making this decision, we had conversations with students, mostly white, who are involved with the local human rights committee and a few students expressed to us that they felt strongly that books assigned about race, gender or identity only by those who are a part of the community they write about. as a teacher i understand where they're coming from, but i will look at this argument and belief. there is a lot to digest there. >> the idea is that the students only want books by people who write about a community from which they come from. in other words, they don't want books from white people about black people? >> i think that's where we're headed here. >> these are young

sally hemmings was. the daughter of john it was also the daughter and the father of martha jefferson. jefferson's wife so sally hemmings was jefferson's life half-sister so that is the case. in his bias, to understandable. he up in that place, it was a town that had a very very tough racial history and was a man burned at the stake on the courthouse steps and it was recorded in the newspaper and it was a person who was accused of doing something to a white woman. while global a white girl the woods. and was lynched is sensually. so i took about this in the book, and is a really racial violence in town that made the kind of places some of my relatives didn't even spend the night there read because of the racial past and this is the story they can be told, and from my hometown but this story can be told in other places. burning at the stake is something happening in the 20th century. that was taken place but yes, had a very very tough history. >> lisa, indiana, hi lisa. >> i greeted i am so impressed with

she talks about sally hemming. she does it inng a way that is brilliant and completely age-appropriate. i don't see why you couldn't talk about or raise the question about the texas republic and younger grades. i don't think there is a problem. not reading the constitution but there are ways to talk about anything. i have seen all really good books for young people, kids that i am talking about now certainly to elementary school , middle school natalie is on a wonderful biography of thomas jefferson that comes up all of thes stuff. it's an age-appropriate way. i think there is a way to do it. coming down there talking about all this, there are plenty of people on that hamatter. i do know people gotten very, very aggressive about this. this is the citizens of texas to stand up, stand up against censorship. stand up against the idea you can't talk about the truth. i am of a mind kids are more interesting than we think they are. i've seen so many examples of writing about the issues about race in children's books. i t

a novel about sally hemmings in 1978. as far as historians go mostly finds material were not going to do much more t about it. >> sent brian a texas good afternoon. >> hello. i was planning to ask another question, i had heard sally hemmings with a half sister of jefferson's wife. could you address that at all? that i'll asked my question. would going after second question. >> guest: my hometown is also your home town cotton room i discovered i must've gotten some racism by all samosas. when i discovered a beautiful black woman at ut was 19 or 20 that was a big shock to me that was even possible. that is my first big example of racism and i've been working to get rid of my prejudice ever since bird activists of the 60s i marched with jackson and gladys knight and walter king. here's my question, it was alwaysk a rumor a black man was burned on the courthouse steps in 32. you know anything about that? before in conway texas? >> connor texas montgomery county is of violent racism. >> let's hear from annette gordon reed, sal

sally hemmings grandchildren, great grandchildren. i'm trying to get the precise number here right talked about how jefferson felt about her, that he loved her, mr. jefferson loved her dearly they said. they don't talk about how she felt about him and once she comes back to the united states with him, this is something that started when they were in france in the placece where sally hemmings and her brother james could have taken their freedom there and so she thinks about doing that and jefferson promises her if she comes back to the story they tell and jeffersonn promised her when thy come back to the united states, she would live a good life in monticello and any children that they would have would be free when they were 21 and she comes back with him. i don't know -- she can come back with him because obviously she trusted him to carry that out, but she's 16 year's old and that could have been -- 16th-year-old is not the same as today but young and she comes back with him and in fact, what he said he was going to do he did. s we d

first, sally hemmings, sally hemmings, was the daughter, and jefferson's half sister. his implicit bias, it's understand able that you grew up in that place. it was a town that had a very, very-- that has a very, very tough racial history and there was a man burned at the stake on the courthouse steps in conroe. it was reported in the newspaper. it was a person, you know, who was accused of doing something to a white woman, found with a white girl in the woods and was lynched essentially. so, conroe has-- and i talk about this in the book, that it has an instance-- racial violence in the town and some of my relatives wouldn't spend the night in conroe because of its racial past. and this is a story that could be told about other towns and not making an excuse for my hometown, but this story could be told in other places. the burning at the stake is medieval and this is something happening in the 20th century, you don't think of as taking place, but, yeah, it had a very, very tough history. >> lisa cicero, indiana. hi, lisa. >> hi, ms. reed, i'm impressed with your enti

that a novel about sally hemmings in 1958. for historians until we find material or other things were not going to know much about it than that. >> host: is in bryan, texas good afternoon. >> caller: hello. i was going to ask another question but i had heard sally hemmings was a half-sister of jefferson's wife. did you address that at all? that i will ask my question. >> host: going to ask your second question sir. >> caller: okay, my hometown is also your hometown, conway. i am 84. i discovered i must've gotten some racism by osmosis. when i discovered a beautiful white woman when i was 19 or 20 it was a big shock to me that was even possible. that is my first big example of racism. working to get rid of my prejudice ever since freedom activists of the 60s. my classmate of doctor king. here is my question, who was always a room or a black was burned on the courthouse steps in 32. do you know anything about the? >> and conway texas? >> caller: it was a hotbed of violent racism. it went alright let's hear from annette, gordon r

you would expect to have one of maybe not sally hemmings. the first image is of her grandchildren that we have. we do not have portraits of martha or sally. >> this is a text from and page a high school social studies teacher at hamilton high school. doctor reed my tenth grade colleague and i have a sign on juneteenth as a summer reading assignment for our tenth grade honor students and making the decision regarding this a year's assigned book we had conversations with students, mostly white who are involved with the local human rights committee a few students expressed to us they felt strongly that book's assigned about race, gender, or identity should only be assigned with authors who assign as part of the committee they write about it as a teacher i respect and understand with the students are coming from. i disagree in part with their arguments. i want to explore this argument further this summer and wonder about your thoughts on this belief. >> a lot to digest there. >> the idea is students only want books by people who are writing abou

my question is about sally hemmings and thomas jefferson . what do we know about their relationship . obviously he owned her and it's a horrible thing to say but he owned her and wasthere love their ? was there just, she was handy ? there were many women i'm sure it would have been more than happy to be his companion. i understand that he did promise his wife he would stnot remarry. but what do we know about the interpersonal as much as we can know about that. >> we don't know anything. anything specific about the nature of their connection. there are people who say they could only be rape because as you mentionedhe owned her . sally hemings's grandchildren, or great-grandchildren and i'm trying to get the precise number you're right. talked about how jefferson felt about her. he loved her. mister jefferson loved her dearly they said and they don't talk about how she felt about him.and once she comes back to the united states which this is something that started when they were infrance . it took place with sally hemings and her brother james.

hemmings. the fact though that you have william william byrd ii, thomas jefferson, these men are in some cases the most, the horrifying thing about them is they are not unusual in this sense. this is in some ways a very american story which i think is something to be wrestled with. so again i think there's a landon carter's or you could tell in colonial williamsburg but hope they're also making an effort to give you the flip side of that. that i think is the conundrum with places like bird park. you just go and he thought anything about it, do your own research on this and check it out on the internet, but it's just mention it's named for william byrd ii who is one of the founders of richmond, vacuumed a lot of the property upon which it was established, the city. nothing is mentioned about is really horrible mistreatment of enslaved people come nothing is mentioned about his salacious this, nothing is about the fact that property that he owned was dispossessed from indigenous people in first p