that is a man by the name of john eastman. giuliani eastman were two of the -- well i guess you would call it masterminds behind donald trump 's coup plot with giuliani taking on a more public role along with powell -- remember. you simon was the author of this memo laying out a six point plan. vice president mike pence to essentially unilaterally overturn the election of january 6th and install a loser over the winner over the will of the people. john eastman was among trump's allies who gathered in the so-called war room at the hotel on january 6th and you could see him here. right next to julie -- rudy giuliani. circled in yellow. on the morning of the six that donald trump's rally, john eastman got up on stage and repeated lies about the election fraud and lead out with trump's team was ordering mike pence to do. >> all we are demanding from the vice president pence is this afternoon at 1:00. he let the legislatures of the state look into this so we get to the bottom of it and the american people know whether we have contr

late that night, when the riot was finally over, john eastman is still doing it. he rode pence's chief counsel, gregory jacob, to tell him that vice president pence still should refuse to certify the election results. here's the important thing though, vice president pence's counsel, gregory jacob, he did more than just email back and forth with john eastman, with that lawyer who is still trying to get pence to heed the mob and overturn the election. keep trump in power. gregory jacob did more than just email with eastman that day. perhaps more importantly, he also took time to email himself. quote, after the unrest began on january six, gregory jacobs sent an email to memorialize his conversation with eastman from the day before. the day before january six was that two-hour meeting in the white house complex where eastman reportedly brow beat it pence, that he should throw out all the biden electors. gregory jacob apparently -- or near contemporaneous votes on that meeting and email them to himself, to save them, to memorialize them. while the capitol siege was u

a lawyer named john eastman. john eastman was apparently there at that january 4th meeting to tell vice president pence that he had to act, he had to do something on january six when congress was said to me to certify the election. eastman reportedly at that meeting told by vice president pence and his staff that the vice president should refuse to certify the election. and he if he refused to certify the election, the results could be overturned in trump's favor. that was the meeting, oval office, january 4th. gregory jacob was there in person for that meeting at the vice president side. the very next day, january 5th, they did it again. that same trumpy lawyer, john eastman, reportedly cornered gregory jacob, the vice president's top lawyer, cornered him in another office in the white house complex and when he cornered him he argued that the following day, on january six, when it came time for vice president presents to count electoral votes, you should actually just reject all the electors for joe biden. that

late that night, john eastman is still doing it. he wrote gregory jacob to tell him that vice president pence still should refuse to certify the election results. here's the important thing, though, vice president pence's counsel gregory jacob, he did more than just email back and forth with john eastman, with that lawyer who is still trying to get pence to heed the mob and overturn the election, keep trump in power. gregory jacob did more than just email with eastman that day. perhaps more importantly, he also took time to email himself. quote, after the unrest began on january 6, jacob jacob sent an email to memorialize his conversation with eastman from the day before. that was that two-hour meeting in the white house where eastman reportedly brow beat pence that he should throw out all the electors, gregory jacob apparently took contemporaneous or near contemporaneous notes of that email to save them, to memorialize them while the capitol siege was under way on january 6th. so this guy, gregory jacob, vice president pence's top

>> i don't think he was going to worry what john eastman was saying but in the heat of the moment, the vice president was concerned with how do we get back in and complete the work we were assigned to do for the day. mccarthy and schumer were saying, how do we get back in tonight? so the world sees that our democracy is functioning properly. >> was the vice president present that day, january 6? >> yes, he was in the capitol. i had a conference with the chief of staff. >> was the president communicating with him at any point in time? >> was he communicating with anyone in that period? >> i think he was communicating to keith kellogg who communicated with mark meadows. >> communicated what? >> that we were safe and secure in the location that we were in. >> what did you see that day? >> from the time that the president was evacuated, i came back to his office on the senate floor, and at that point, secret service had tried to move him twice. the vice president was resolute and said, i'm not going to let the united states see us flee the capitol and i'm staying. but at the same time head

the turning and trump ally john eastman is attempting to shield more than 10,000 pages of emails from the committee claiming attorney client privilege. we will have a lot more on what this means for the investigation later in the hour. meantime, there are new developments in the civil investigation into the presidents, former presidents company. the trump organization's longtime accounting firm mazars usa set a decades where the financial statement from the trump organization can no longer be viewed as reliable. according to a publicly disclosed letter this -- released by the new york attorney general, the firm said it would no longer work for the trump organization. in a statement the trump organization said he was disappointed mazars had chosen to part ways, but added quote, the letter confirms that after conducting a subsequent review of all prior statements of financial condition, mazer's work was performed in accordance with all applicable accounting standards and principles and that such statements of financial -- condition do not contain any material discrepancies. this confirm

the person who would have a much more plausible claim to attorney client privilege than john eastman who is claiming it is rudy giuliani. although giuliani doesn't seem to be planning on asserting it. rudy has been on trump's legal team since 2018 amid the investigation into his ties to russia. he also played a key role in trump's attempt to solicit interference in the 2020 election from ukraine. actions that led to the presidents first impeachment. giuliani was pretty frank about this. he admitted -- he asked ukrainians to investigate your -- joe biden. >> did you ask the ukraine to investigate joe biden? >> no, i didn't. i asked the ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of 2016 by the ukraine for the benefit of hillary clinton for which there was already -- >> you never asked anything about hunter biden, you never asked anything about joe biden? >> the only thing i asked about joe biden is to get to the bottom of how it was that the cycle who was appointed, would dismiss the case against -- >> so you did ask ukraine to look into joe bide

they were used by giuliani and lawyer john eastman as they developed a strategy intended to exploit ambiguities in the act. >> you should designate a slate of electors. >> on january 4, trump met with giuliani and eastman, laying out steps trump could take to delay and remain in power. his allies are hitting back. on january 6, the rnc issued a statement saying its members strongly condemned the violence, calling it an attack on our country and its founding principles. but now -- >> all those for the motion, respond by saying aye. >> they now say the january 6 attack was simply normal citizens engaging in police discourse. joining me now is marc short. he's mr. pence's former chief of staff. mr. short was with the vice president at the capitol january 6 and he recently testified before the january 6 committee. mr. short, welcome to "met the press." >> thank you for having me. >> let's start with your former boss, vice president pence. in fairness to him, he has said something similar in the past but he chose to give a big platform to this this week. why? >> well, chuck, i think as you mentioned

. >>> to the latest to january 6, john eastman due in court. eastman is trying to keep emails from being turned over investigating by chapman university. he's reported over the reports that they want to see, 10,000 or more attorneyed by attorney/client privilege. let's bring in garrick haake. nicholas wu who is a congressional reporter at politico. nicholas, let's start with you, what do you know about john eastman and why the possible emails. explain why the committee would want to see them? >> the committee's taking a interest in john eastman because he's at the center of so many of these different conspiracies and plots to try to overturn the 2020 election. with the emails, thousands and thousands of emails related to his tenure when he was at chapman university. and the committee has tried to gain access to these, basically to garner whatever information they can, about what extent eastman was involved in these conspiracies. how far they were disseminated and how far this could possibly go. and the question here, though, is what exactly hap

the turning and trump ally john eastman is attempting to shield more than 10,000 pages of emails from the committee claiming attorney client privilege. we will have a lot more on what this means for the investigation later in the hour. meantime, there are new developments in the civil investigation into the presidents, former presidents company. the trump organization's longtime accounting firm mazars usa set a decades where the financial statement from the trump organization can no longer be viewed as reliable. according to a publicly disclosed letter this -- released by the new york attorney general, the firm said it would no longer work for the trump organization. in a statement the trump organization said he was disappointed mazars had chosen to part ways, but added quote, the letter confirms that after conducting a subsequent review of all prior statements of financial condition, mazer's work was performed in accordance with all applicable accounting standards and principles and that such statements of financial -- discrepancies. this confirmation effectively renders the investig

those emails extended even as late as 8 pm i believe, i might have to refresh our reporting, of john eastman emailing craig jacobs that mike pence could employ some constitutional loophole that pence's legal team have already found pretty questionable in order to ultimately send the slate of electors back to the states. but mark short and greg jacobs were, again, key witnesses to all of these different players and these outside legal teams that were trying to convince the former vice president to go along with president trump's plan to overturn the election. >> all right jacqueline alemany, thank you very much, i appreciate it. senator sheldon whitehouse is a democrat from rhode island. he is a member of the judiciary committee and he joins me now. senator, i wanted to get your thoughts as someone who has been around the law, most of your adult life, and your former prosecutor. the significance of the revelation that you have rudy giuliani being asked by the president as a kind of cut out to call his own sub cabinet officials of the department of homeland security to investigate the

john eastman is the one who came up with the idea of overturning the election through the count act so he knew if he would say the only thing pence can do on january 6 is playing this ministerial role of counting the votes they knew that would give pence the credibility to buck what trump wanted him to do. the only problem is, they were scrambling at the last minute to get luttig's voice out there and didn't know how to do it and he basically said i just signed up for twitter. what if i tweet it? so he called his son who works in silicon valley and had to literally ask him how to use twitter so he could make this argument that pence could then use in his letter. his son like a lot of kids said, dad, i'm very busy. i'll do this another time. luttig told me he told his son if you don't tell me how to use twitter right now i am cutting you out of the will. so a quality to this very serious moment in american history. >> now luttig is the most prolific tweeter of all time. i have to run. thank you so much. i appreciate you both joining us. >> thanks for having me on, don. >>> she won gold

john eastman is the person who came up with this idea of overturning the election through the electoral count act so pence world knew if they could get luttig to go public saying eastman's idea is nuts, the only thing pence can do on january 6th is playing this ministerial role of counting votes, they knew that that would give pence, uh, the credibility to buck what trump wanted him to do. the only problem is they were scrambling, at the last minute, to get luttig's voice out there and didn't know how to do it and luttig basically said you know what? i just signed up for twitter. what if i tweet it? luttig had a tweet so he called his son who works in silicon valley and had to literally ask how to use twitter so he could make this argument that pence could then use in his letter. his son, like a lot of kids said, um, dad, i'm very busy. i will do this another time. and luttig told me that he told his son if you don't tell me how to use twitter right now, i am cutting you out of the will. so, this is sort of owen brothers like quality to this very, very serious moment in american history

eastman were communicating to pence maybe even as the mob was attack. were they still trying to use that? were they intending for that mob to be leverage for pence to try to undo or overturn the certification? i mean pence is ultimately, for the obstruction of congress, really the epicenter of this. he was the one who trump believed held the keys to the kingdom in terms of invalidating many states and their electoral votes for biden and possibly even certifying a fake slate of electors or throwing it back to the house so they could give the election to trump. so i don't think, though, that short is a substitute for pence. i think pence should testify as well, because he is the one who can speak directly to his own communications and state of mind when that was happening. >> well, we will ask representative adam schiff about that specifically when we talk to him coming up. asha rangappa, thank you very much for taking the time. >>> a short time ago, secretary of state antony blinken wrapped up a high-stakes phone call with his russian counterpart, sergey

is it legitimate political discourse for john eastman and jeffrey clark to basically make fake theories overruling the constitution and 12th amendment and electoral count act of 1887. those two guys. is it legitimate political discourse, those two that pled the fifth amendment before the january 6 committee? i don't think so. if somebody was engaged in that they have nothing to fear from the january 6 committee or anything else. >> that mitt romney is now such an outlier in the party, a man that was the nominee for the party is extraordinary. bill cassidy speaking out against the censure of cheney and kinzinger. it is stunning. >> stunning and sad. we have gone from, you know, cowardice to depravity really in the republican party in the rnc. it is horrific. >> george conway, i appreciate you think with us as always. >> thank you, anderson. >> coming up new exclusive cnn reporting establishing what one january 6 figure has been reluctant to pin down. when did congressman jim jordan speak with the former president on january 6th and what to make economically and politically of today's str

eastman and sydney powell who were trying to convince pence to do this. it never got published but the "washington post" obtained a company and published it and this is part of what jacob wrote. emthe vice president never wavered under the barrage of bankrupt legal theories just as he never left the capitol building when the assault began. now that the moment of immediate crisis has passed, the legal profession should dispassionately examine whether the attorneys involved should be disciplined for using their credentials to sell a stream of snake oil to the most powerful office in the world, wrapped in the guise of a lawyer's advice. the fact that he is just so critical of these legal theories is important because jake, as we know, the former president continues to peddle this as an option that vice president pence had on january 6th, even as recently as this morning, suggesting that pence was wrong in not taking that advice and standing in the way of the duly elected president and vice president in joe biden and kamala harris. >> i'm not sure it is even

but it became more prominent that conservative lawyer john eastman advising trump sent jacob an e-mail during the riot blaming pence for the violence at the capitol. in his interview comes as cnn reported pence former chief of staff mark short was interviewed last week and all of this begs the question whether pence, himself, will cooperate with the committee and all this comes amid-our new reporting traump ally drafted two executive orders to seize voting machines after the elections. one version. tasking the pentagon with seizing machines and the second version instructing the department of homeland security to carry out the same tasks, even though according to all reporting a top dhs official told trump attorney rudy guiliani that dhs didn't have that power. while neither memo was issued, it shows the length the trump advisers were willing to go to as a part of a broader effort to undermine the election results. >> thank you very much. i want to bring in mathew travis. he served in the trump administration as deputy texter of the cyber security infrastructure agency which, of course

what the judge is saying, trump uniquely, compared to even rudy giuliani and john eastman, others, none of them met that standard. this is where donald trump is caught between two of his most primal instincts, self-preservation, and promoting himself. he's claimed a lot of credit, now he's trying to run away from the blame. >> i want to ask you on another topic we'll be discussing later, the civil rights trial of the people against -- who had murdered ahmaud arbery. that has gone to the jury tonight. a lot of people say these guys got the book thrown on them on the evidence, without the question of race being raised. but this civil rights trial is important to understand the accountability of what was behind it. what do you make of it? >> i'm so sorry, but i'm still special prosecutor in the george floyd murders. so i can't comment. sorry. >> okay. i have another question for you, you've been before the supreme court many, many times. and we have news that despite all that is going on with russia and ukraine, joe biden has started interviewing the candidates himself for the supreme cour

. >> reporter: luttig learned his former law clerk, john eastman, was advising trump and pence that the vice president had the authority to overturn the election results. >> you can tell the vice president that i said that he has no such authority at all. and richard said, he knows that. we need to do something publicly. get your voice out to the country. >> reporter: judge luttig had just opened a twitter account, and the two men agreed a message online would be the best way to showcase luttig's legal an analysis. >> i understood the gravity of the moment and the momentous task that i was being asked to help the vice president with. >> reporter: the 67-year-old luttig confirmed with his tech-savvy son on how to use twitter to blast out his lengthy message. >> he says, dad, i don't have time for this, to which i said, you just tell me right now how to get this done, or i'll cut you out of the will, okay? >> reporter: on january 5th, luttig tweeted his legal analysis, which pence then cited in a letter he released, saying, the constitution does not empower the vice president to alter in

we've seen a number of witnesses, particularly those closely aligned with the former president, john eastman, that conservative lawyer, alex jones, roger stone, all of them have said they have taken the fifth to a majority of the questions that were asked of them by the january 6th committee. the big question that this brings bring s up, wolf, is how does the committee handle what they have against jeffrey clark. it's voted out of committee. the committee has to decide if they take the next step. >> ryan nobles on capitol hill. >>> let's discuss with gloria borger and andrew mccabe. the pence aides refuse to discuss the conversations with the former president, trump, but they answered most of the committee's questions. they could shed a lot of light on trump's actions and what the then-vice president told them couldn't they? >> sure. i mean, look. these are key eyewitnesses during key events. they were both with the vice president on capitol hill on january 6th. they can tell you about the conversations with the vice president on that day, and what occurred and what the vice presiden

eastman and don junior told the big lie on january 6th that your vote has been stolen, you need to go down there, kick you know what and take names, fight like hell or you won't have a country anymore, go down there and stop the certification of the election, that big lie was a crime because it was inciting the insurrection and here is the thing, joy, unless and until the department of justice brings charges against somebody other than the foot soldiers who donald trump set on the capitol to stop the certification, we're going to have the little liars running around the country telling the big lie and they're going to do it with immunity. the minute charges come to the command structure of the insurrection, i predict all of the little liars will shut their mouths because now they'll see there are consequences to continuing to tell the big lie and that's what we're still all waiting for some accountability. >> yeah, indeed. let's go through subpoenas that. this is one. this is for trump's director of election operations michael roman and the select committee says they're in possession

eastman, was trying to convince pence to overturn the election. so the judge overruled. >> i would say he's making a lot of news this year. and judge luttig has some choice words for republicans. >> this is very interesting. he not only called on republicans in the statement, i would say he called out republicans. he asked for not only bipartisan support, but he says, quote, republicans in particular should vote to confirm judge jackson. he believes republicans really prematurely criticized biden on this pick. he thinks they are short-sighted, and there is a very interesting quote where he says, if not because they're bean magnanimous, they should make a political congratulations and do the right thing and confirm her. >> all right. thank you for the reporting. appreciate it. >>> the news that parents and students in the nation's largest school district have been waiting quite some time to hear. that's next. ♪ your dell technologies advisor can help you find the right tech solutions. so you can stop at nothing for your customers. ♪(music)♪ a

. >> luttig learned his former law clerk, john eastman, was add viegz trump and pence that the vice president had the authority to overturn the election results. >> you can tell the vice president i said he has no authority at all. richard said, he knows that. you know, we need to do something publicly. get your voice out to the country. >> judge luttig had just opened a twitter account, and two men agreed a message online would be the best way to show case luttig's legal anal sysis and provide the cover. >> i understood the gravity of the moment and the momentous task that i was being asked to help the vice president with. >> the 67-year-old luttig confirmed with his tech savvy son on how to use twitter to blast out his lengthy message. >> he says, dad, i don't have time for this. to which i said, you just tell me right now how to get this done or i'll cut you out of the will, okay? and on january 5th, luttig tweeted his legal analysis, which pence then cited in a letter he released saying the constitution does not empower the vice president to alter in any way the votes that have been cast

eastman's fantasies. you know, everybody on the trump side understood that there was no merit to anything that eastman was saying and of course, more than 60 courts had already rejected all of the claims of electoral corruption and fraud. you know, it was based on. i guess i would say, you know, their problems historically with the electoral count act but it's too easy to say, well let's make a few adjustments to electoral count act and call it a day. i mean, we have a movement that's based on fascist politics and ideas, and just declaring what we all know already to be true under the 12th amendment, which is that the vice president does not have the power to repudiate electors but instead just officiate over the proceeding. i don't think that gets too far and i would hate to see that used as an excuse or an alibi for not doing anything else to correct the situation. >> that was an interesting reaction, i don't know what you are going to say. congressman jamie raskin, thank you so much. >> thank you so mu

presence's lawyer contacted a retired federal judge to help the former president debunk john eastman's claim the vice president could reflect the election results nap was eastman's former boss michael lew ludig. pence calls him to thank him. my first question, has the committee reached out to michael luttig? >> we're not getting into that. the former vice president said publicly there was no constitutional basis for what the former president was insisting that he do. i think the former vice president has publicly indicated he did get the advice of former vice president dan quayle, who he knew obviously, they're both from indiana, and that -- so there's no basis for this. there's no discretion on the part of the vice president. he just opens the envelopes and then the tellers, i was one of them, read them aloud. i saw the newspaper article. obviously, this judge is known to be very, very conservative, and i imagine for conservatives, when this very conservative judge said, there's no basis for this. it's just unconstitutional, it probably had a meaningful impact on people of a conservat

this is the springboard by rudy giuliani and attorney john eastman who wrote the infamous memo explaining how vice president pence could use the slate of electors to stop the vote from being certified january 6. new evidence of the trump campaign to set up fake electors is where we start the hour. garrett haake is here and neil katyal, now a georgetown law professor and yamiche alcindor is back. neal, the danger is you see evidence that it sees to erase questions of a closed sish kit but appears the evidence of memos and the connection back to the plot which is also on paper from trump campaign lawyer john eastman who sat in the oval with trump and pence closes the circuit once and for all. >> i agree. it would be malpractice to ignore donald trump's role in this and bears repeating after what trump said over did weekend. we wouldn't have the news reports about the memos and the january 6 committee with multiple criminal investigations if he accepted the outcome like the nine other losing incumbent presidents before him. if he westerned anything from the january 6 investigation there's al

"the times" adds that days before the insurrection, they both met with john eastman, the lawyer who insisted that pence had the power to stop certification of the vote. "the washington post" has reported that jacob clashed with eastman and his advice. maybe it is no surprise, then, that the committee had nine hours of questions for jacob. here is committee chairman bennie thompson's take. >> we are glad that he came. and obviously it is all part of the work that we do. he is a great patriot. he loves this country more so than other people who do not. >> and this afternoon another committee member explained what investigators hoped to learn. >> understanding what that pressure was and what plans were in place and what pressure was applied on the former vice president, to what extent was the former president or the people surrounding him involved in orchestrating and hatching this plan? that is the work of this committee, to get all of those facts and details. >> today, donald trump who on sunday admitted he wanted pence to overturn the 2020 election launched an attack on his former vice presi

john eastman also took the fifth. you have to ask why are the smart lawyers taking the fifth. they're entitled. we're entitled to ask why. and the self-titled elite strike force rudy giuliani. jenna ellis, sidney powell. they were scheduled to go in yesterday. mysteriously got rescheduled. rudy in particular ought to think about taking the fifth here. i would be surprised if any of them do testify. . >> and then the lawmakers. >> this is a bit of a head scratcher. kevin mccarthy, jim jordan, scott perry had discussions leading up to and on january 6th. they are being careful. no subpoenas yet. informal interview requests. all three made clear they will not be implying with that. big question for the committee. legally they absolutely can subpoena their fellow colleagues. but there's a big political question that's never been done before. if they do, they may fear it will look political or reprisal if the house flips to republicans. they have to decide if they play hardball with their own colleagues. >> we will let you hit the law books on toilet-gate. >> i have experience a in

we know that the memo from john eastman's data january 3rd, only three days before january 6th. we know that trump's -- is stated december 31st. so, these memos date back to early december and even november. so, we may be seeing some of the first evidence of legal theories from the trump allies that get their way to people closer to donald trump and finally to donald trump himself. and he becomes convinced that no longer is it about winning and the electoral college, it is now about winning in congress. and so, they settle on this idea that really only one man needs to be convinced to choose the president and that is the vice president. obviously, that is wrong, that is not with the law says. that is not what the constitution says. but this is the start of these theories. and i will say the theory i think, if you look at it closely, becomes more warped as it goes along. it starts with just a plan in wisconsin and then it grows into something more and it grows in ways probably the original authors did not intend. >> luke broadwater, who has been doing great reporting on this topi

they know that rudy giuliani met with the president on multiple times, john eastman, the conservative lawyer, so we really don't know, but obviously the january 6 committee believes it is really worth trying. >> maggie, as gloria just said, the visit or logs might not necessarily reflect visits to the white house residence or if someone was scheduled to visit one person and ended up visiting other people. how much of a problem could that be trying to piece together former president trump's actions around january 6? >> well, i think the committee has always had a challenge when it comes to putting together the pieces of the former president's movements that day, with the people around him that day. and i guess i would raise another question that i'm not clear on, gloria or paula might be, but i'm not clear on whether these are just the visitors logs from january 6 which based on my realtime reporting is probably going to reveal less than anything on the previous days or the days leading up to it if they're trying to understand what happened and i don't know that those are available. wh

. >>> new this morning, right wing lawyer john eastman who helped develop former president trump's false argument that the 2020 election was stolen, is now fighting to keep about 130 emails out of the hands of the committee investigating january 6th insurrection. eastman has already turned over thousands of pages of emails, but the emails he wants to keep secret date from january 4th through january 7th of 2021. cnn law enforcement correspondent whitney wild joins me. clearly those dates are interesting, the dates of the emails he wants to keep private. why these specific emails, though? >> well, eastman claims the 132 emails should stay secret because they are attorney/client communications. this occurred from what he represented donald trump in his 2020 presidential campaign. the house argues that his reasons haven't been good enough to maintain confidentiality under the law. this is the latest revelation in an ongoing court fight over eastman's emails from his account at his former employer, chapman university, which the house subpoenaed weeks ago. this batch of emails were generated

. >> and speaking of what is in his mind, and scheming and planning, john eastman is this prominent attorney and former trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. he spoke at the january 6th rally. he's the one that came up with that crazy eastman memo with this unconstitutional scheme for pence, to install trump as president even though biden won. he now claim he was hired to represent trump two months before the election. he says this was to prepare for post election litigation. is this proof that this was all premeditated? or not? >> i don't think that's proof of premeditation. i think the facts are alalargel out there that they wanted to thwart the election. if you read his memo, i talk about my book, lawyers focus on laws and facts because we have to. we'll lose in court if we don't. this is really about him being able to claim, i was trump's lawyer. we have something out there called attorney-client privilege. and that can really clamp down on access to evidence. if he was not his lawyer, he can't even argue that. if he was his lawyer, then the question is whether it was confidenti

january 4th in the oval office, that was the meeting where former president trump and this lawyer, john eastman reportedly tried to convince pence in person that he shouldn't count the real electoral college votes. she reject them. or he should refuse to open them. or he should refuse to recognize that the real votes were the only legitimate electoral votes from that state and maybe there might be others or maybe there were forged slates of electors should count just as much or two sets of electors, real ones and forged ones from some states, that should be grounds for throwing out that state's results entirely, they were trying to get him to not do a real electoral college vote and they reportedly pressured mike pence to do that in person in the oval office on january 4th and mark short was sitting right next to mike pence during that meeting and mark short has just testified to the january 6th investigation for hours. so as far as this investigation goes, that testimony would seem to be a big deal. the "washington post" has also got some strange but true news tonight about the documen

you just have to ask, where does all this stop between the draft executive orders the john eastman memo's every document that comes out is like of a voice over saying, and then someone had a worse idea. >> you know, on this point legally there are plenty of people in prison tonight who asked the question of there accountant -- can i do this legally? and on the kind of someone else said no, you can't, and they did it anyway. so the fact that donald trump is asking, can we do it legally doesn't tell you whether he was willing to do it illegally? >> absolutely. you have to be frankly, deluded if you want to ask that question. is illegal for president to seize voting machines and make a national security finding or something like that? of course the answer has to be no. it's a preposterous question. >> i want to go to something that developed over the weekend which is donald trump in this unprecedented stunning thing that he is so famous for doing, basically promising pardons, hundreds, possibly thousands of pardons for people who attacked the capitol on january six, one of the lawyers repres

eastman, who knows what went on in those meetings. if you want to read between the lines of what he's said so far, you could infer he has a lot of information that is very bad for the former president and those in his circle. >> nbc's sahil kapur, danny cevallos, appreciate it. don't miss tonight msnbc films presents love and the constitution, a new documentary following representative jamie raskin as he fights to defend democracy while navigating an intense personal tragedy amidst the loss of his son. watch love and the constitution tonight, 10:00 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. >> still ahead, everybody, queen camilla. the statement from queen elizabeth that has rocked royal watchers. we'll be right back. l watchers we'll be rightac bk. it's 5:00 a.m., and i feel like i can do anything. we've got apples and cabbage. 7,000 dahlias, vegetables, and brisket for dinner. this is my happy place. we've been coming here, since 1868. my grandmother used to say, don't call me, don't bother me. i'm going out to mow. there's a lot of cushy d

you just have to ask, where does all this stop between the draft executive orders the john eastman memo's every document that comes out is like of a voice over saying, and then someone had a worse idea. >> you know, on this point legally there are plenty of people in prison tonight who asked the question of where -- can i do this legally? and on the kind of someone else said no, you can't, and they did it anyway. so the fact that donald trump is asking, can we do it legally doesn't tell you whether he was willing to do it illegally? >> absolutely. you have to be frankly, diluted if you want to ask that question. is illegal for president to seize voting machines and make a national security finding or something like that? of course the answer has to be no. it's a preposterous question. >> i want to go to something that developed over the weekend which is donald trump in this unprecedented stunning thing that he is so famous for doing, basically promising pardons, hundreds, possibly thousands of pardons for people who attacked the capitol on january six, one of the lawyers representing one

we know that the memo from john eastman's data january 3rd, only three days before january 6th. we know that trump's -- is stated december 31st. so, these memos date back to early december and even november. so, we may be seeing some of the first evidence of legal theories from the trump allies that get their way to people closer to donald trump and finally to donald trump himself. and he becomes convinced that no longer is it about winning and the electoral college, it is now about winning in congress. and so, they settle on this idea that really only one man needs to be convinced to choose the president and that is the vice president. obviously, that is wrong, that is not with the law says. that is not with the constitution says. but this is the start of these theories. and i will say the theory i think, if you look at it closely, becomes more warped as it goes along. it starts with just a plan in wisconsin and then it grows into something more and it grows in ways probably the original authors did not intend. >> luke broadwater, who has been doing great reporting on this topi

let's go back to john eastman. he handed over about 8,000 over 94,000 emails, not a high percentage, what's your sense here, any word on whether, as with other witness, the panel has already received and obtained most of the information it's seen from eastman, perhaps from the recipients of those emails, rather than eastman the sender? are there other tactics that the committee is using to get to the bottom of just what he was up to? >> yes, so there's a good chance that they had gotten them from other sources frankly, that is what this committee has tried to do, is they have asked for documents that they know, this is a tried and true tactic, in the congressional investigations, asking for documents that they know exist, to see if the person will produce them on their own. we don't know that to be a fact right now, but that is certainly possible, that's number one. number two, this just shows, i think, john that this could be caught up, it's legal wrangling, the committee's work could be caught up in legal wrangli

eastman to get in front of them and they're connecting dots andn and around these people. so if they don't get something directly from jeffrey clark, well they talk to other people at the department of justice at that time. they talk to other associates. talked to other people that could kind of close the gaps that they are not getting from these other people that have stonewalled them and it is -- this is evidence. this is, as you say, bearing fruit that the investigation is making progress. >> and just back to my legal question for a second, because i'm still confused. the reason they wouldn't want to subpoena a colleague is because they don't think that the department of justice would support that? why is that such treacherous terr territory? >> right. so i think it is a little bit of what goes around what comes around. let's go with straight legal. clearly the committee could issue a subpoena to jim jordan and other members. there is the speech and debate clause but that doesn't apply to protect congressman. they could issue a subpoena. if jim jordan rejects it, then t

eastman, one of the former president's lawyers at the time who was really pushing theories and ways to overturn the election results, roger stone, alex jones, those are some of the names of people who are pled the 5th in front of the committee, unclear whether or not use immunity is going to be extended in the future to other witnesses. certainly something we're tracking here. >> which we thank you for doing for us. appreciate that. >>> let's go to an emotional msnbc documentary that shows the january 6th insurrection like you've never seen it before. "love and the constitution" documents congressman jamie raskin who just days after losing his son and in the wake of the attack on that capitol led former president trump's second impeachment trial. its an intimate look into the congressman's battle in the after math of a national tragedy and personal one. >> we were not the only family in that god awful year to lose a family member. if you add up covid-19, opioid deaths, gun violence, and all of the other normal causes, millions of people lost loved ones. >> amen. >> we are indeed sur

the times adds that days before the insurrection, they both met with john eastman, the lawyer who insisted that pence had the power to stop certification of the vote. the washington post has reported that jacobs clashed with eastman and his advice. maybe it is no surprise, then, that the committee had nine hours of questions for jacob. here is committee chairman bennie thompson's take. >> we are glad that he came. and obviously it is all part of the work that we do. he is a great patriot. he loves this country more so than other people who do not. >> and this afternoon, another committee member explained what investigators hoped to learn. >> understanding what that pressure was and what plans were in place and what pressure was applied on the former vice presidents, to what extent was the former president or the people surrounding him involved in orchestrating in hatching this plan? that is the work of this committee, to get all of those facts and details. >> today, donald trump who on sunday admitted he wanted pence to overturn the 2020 election launched an attack on his former vice presi

are they -- are they -- is it legitimate political discourse for john eastman and -- and that fellow in the justice department, jeffrey clark, to basically make -- make fake theories about that overrule the constitution and overrule the 12th amendment and overrule the electoral count act of 1887. um, you know, those two guy -- i mean, are they -- is it legitimate political discourse, those two who have now pled the fifth amendment before the january 6th committee? i don't think so. and so, you know, it -- it's hard to know who they are talking about here who is engaging in legitimate political discourse who is somehow being harassed by the january 6th committee. if somebody -- if somebody was engaged in legitimate political discourse on -- on january 6th or days leading up, they have nothing to fear from the january 6th committee or anyone else. >> and i mean, to -- you know, the -- that mitt romney is now such an outlier in the republican party, a man who was the nominee for the party, is just extraordinary. i mean, romney, bill cassidy, you know, also speaking out against this cens

your committee has received nearly 8,000 pages of emails from former trump lawyer john eastman who played a key role in crafting the election fraud conspiracy. but he's with holding, more than 11,000 pages. what sort of communications did he share with your committee and what are you still missing? >> well, he has claimed privilege on certain of these documents so this is a huge amount of documents we're still receiving this, evaluating them. but we have a concern. as to whether his privilege claims are adequate and whether he's provided detailed enough information on those things that he wants to claim privilege on. so we're still evaluating and my understanding is there is more documents. i think the judge had to actually order him to do a certain number, 1500 per day in order to do this in a timely manner. and we are still working through that to make sure we to get all of the information and that he provides essentially what the court has ordered to the committee. >> we will stay in close touch with you. congresswoman elaine laura, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >>> w

that was the plan outlined by john eastman in those memos. we can't trust those seven states. mike pence, presiding over the ceremony, tosses them on. if you go with the other 43 states, hey, donald trump wins. he has more. he doesn't have 270 but he would have more than joe biden at that point. that was the plan, as far-fetched as it may seem. that was what they were trying to do as the coup. there was no let mat means to contest the elections. it was all about him trying to maintain power. >> again, what were they doing? look at the states where he was claiming there were scam results. wisconsin, had a republican legislature. pennsylvania had a republican legislature. michigan had a republican legislature. we said on this show months ahead of time, counted election day, count all of the votes election day, because there was a proposal to do it like florida does or else this is exactly what is going to happen and it happened. florida, another swing state, had a republican legislature. georgia had a republican legislature. i mean he -- and a republican secretary of state and r

three days before the proceeding, the two men met with john eastman, a lawyer then advising trump, about a memo mr. eastman had written, setting out a case for why pence had the power to hold off the certification. developments in the 1/6 committee's investigation as they hear from former pence aides is where we start this hour with one of the members of that committee. joining us now is congresswoman elaine of virginia. thank you for spending time with us at what is clearly a busy time for the committee. i wonder if there was anything you can say about the importance of the investigation into specifically the pressure placed on mike pence, publicly as we showed there, but also behind closed doors, say, in the oval office. >> well, you know, the clip you showed earlier did show the immense pressure that was made by trump at rallies. it was made through tweets. that pressure was applied, obviously, in a way that had people show up prepared to build a gallows with a noose if the vice president didn't follow through with this crazy big lie and this idea that he could change the outcome of t